Throw away the honey to avoid the flies?

Perhaps $MS should limit their witch hunt for evil hackers to those aren't genuine??

This sent using gmail on firefox running Ubuntu. Fedora is pretty good as well. If MS$ is to survive they need to open source their spaghetti code

lmao...

Yeah, cuz it's hurting them *so* much not to do so, right?

You guys slay me.

"They are creating a feeling of fear and distrust in the public opinion. Insecurity is their most positive asset. Their final goal is to eliminate all kinds of free software"

"Unless we are mindless robots who buy when they say we buy."

And yet they keep lining up!

Hmmm. It seems to me that the ONLY two groups who are continually whining about MS and Windows are exactly those mentioned above, or the pirates who steal such a pristine example of masochistic delight.

And continuing to listen to this is like tuning in and watching an episode of Maury Povich's 'Whose baby is this?', or an episode of Jerry Springer where an erudite gentleman is cheating on his sister with a transvestite hooker.

"How Dare they!? I am a victim..."
I would use another word to describe such behavior.

Let's see, is it MS or is it the fool that continues to pay for and use (or to be used by) the product?

After 20 years of experience and heads up behavior, if you keep repeating the same behavior and keep expecting a different result, it has become rather difficult to distinguish just which party is the idiot!

I guess all those people in stores buying computers are erasing Windows on their machines just to put on a pirate copy? I don't think so. Windows is on over 512 million of computers according to the report so 22.3% or 114 million devices are running pirated software in the US? And BSA is saying 35% of the worlds software is pirated. We're talking over a billion computers worldwide have conspired to deprive the world's software makers of their money? C'mon it is all lies and fact manipulation. They spin the truth to gain government favor to make laws that favor their business. It is estimated that there are only about 1 - 2% in the US who are real pirates. This is based off real stats of arrests and recorded sales from those arrests and the number of "smart" ones who don't get caught. Most times you only hear about how much they "potentially" lost in revenue which again are lies. Unless we are mindless robots who buy when they say we buy. Thei guestimates are just that a big guess. I wager that the real number is millions if not billions less then they think.

I don't doubt worldwide 22% would fail WGA, and that's what the story tells, not what you and others interpreted (the other 22% is talking about BSA's #'s...there aren't 500 million XP installs in the USA). But you are right, in the US, the # should be under 5%. But still..yeah, I did in fact erase XP Home on roughly 40+ friends/family machines (incl my own) and put pirated XP Pro on it cuz it was just so easy to do. Now with Vista's increased protections (which would eventually require constant cracking or staying with known security holes on an un-windows-updated OS)..I simply wouldn't erase the preinstalled Vista Home for friends/family. So am I a thief? Not really (not in my eyes), cuz I wouldn't have bought XP Pro anyway if it wasn't so easy to pirate...I would have kept XP Home for everyone.

Nobody erases anything at all, and in my humble and totally personal opinion being a happy and legal Windows 98 SE user, MS doesn't need to do such complaints having a greater income than many nations in the world unless they want to take profit of it to promote Vista and maybe also eventually, as I have read searching in Google in order to know the meaning of the acronym TCPA, to promote laws which make it a criminal offence the developement and the use of any kind of free software in America.

moved

Wow! So much angst over such a small issue.

Here's an idea. If you don't use Windows, you have no problem.

If you do buy Windows, you have no problem except for the fact that you DO use Windows. Enjoy!

If you are dumb enough to use a pirated copy of Windows (think about it, one would hope that someone would at least steal something of value!): tuff sh!t, you're an idiot.

So which one are you?

According to your pristine logic, I'm the idiot who uses a pirated copy of Windows, while the ones who paid for the same thing are highly intelligent for paying for something of NO VALUE, and should enjoy it.

As expected, you demonstrate your stupidity and you posit those who pay the big bucks for the OS with far too much credit.

You are 'both' idiots. ;-)

It will confuse you to no end, but those who are using the alternative OSes are not complaining about their environments; its only you wizards of IT who continually whine about Windows.

And yes, after 20 years, if you continue to choose to use Windows, you deserve exactly what you whine about. You have made your choice, now shut up and enjoy!

Thus your masochistic cries of pleasure are little more than low brow drive by entertainment for the rest of the populace who simply try to avoid stepping in your pity puddles.

Let's see...problems with Windows...MS is screwing us...now there is a unique, novel, and New topic!

I never complain about MS products simply because I fully understand NOBODY can do a better job... Building an OS to work PRETTY DARN WELL with tens of thousands of pieces of hardware and software is no small task... And I'd never pay "big bucks" or in my def "retail price" for Windows... It'll come preinstalled on my machine and I may just shell out $50-$100 for an upgrade to Ultimate or something, if I really need it. $100 is not big bucks compared to the complexity of this software and amount of time spent on it... I always just compare it to AV and Photoshop or just WinRAR......they're insanely expensive from usage-benefit POV...

"NOBODY can do a better job"???

Ignorance is indeed bliss!

There are many other OSes that have greater functionality, are more robust and perform better than Windows.

Market share and marketing is NOT a valid measure of the quality of the product.

IF only it were!

Now we're entering the realm of opinion, really. It's quite popular to whine about Windows, yet I (and many, many, many others I know) prefer it over other popular OS choices (i.e. Mac, Linux, etc). I myself had the opportunity to use Macintosh systems for over 6 years, and I must say I prefer Microsoft's product better. I have run into very few issues during the 5 years with Windows XP, and the same goes when I was running on Windows 98. But again, my experience is not your expierience. Insulting others because they continually indulge in a product that does not let them down is not prudent.

I agree entirely, and thanks for an intelligent post!

"There are many other OSes that have greater functionality, are more robust and perform better than Windows."

You left out "and are totally unsuited for the average consumer". The only exception being the Mac, but they lost the market share war long ago and regaining it remains to be seen.

"Market share and marketing is NOT a valid measure of the quality of the product."

Maybe not, but they are what count the most at the end of the day. People will buy what sells the best and has the largest variety of accessories/software/potato twaddlers/whatever. it's like the iPod, is the iPod the best MP3 player? Hardly, but it's what people buy because it has the largest variety of accessories, it does what they want it to, and its what all their friends have.

Not everyone is a techie, to most people a computer is no different then their TV or stereo. If it gets them onto ebay and lets them send email they don't care what OS it runs, so they buy what everyone else has. They aren't idiots, they just don't give a damn.

Those are only the people who try to validate. There are a lot of those who know windows is not genuine and therefore go to a third party download site. Sad thing is if you do a google search you can get around all of these already. Even the ie7 validation check in 2 mins with google. The internet is microsoft's worst enemy and their best friend. So I imagine that this is just stating that 22 percent of people check invalid prob dont even know their windows is not genuine.

Most people don't wanna spend "2 minutes" (more like 10-20mins) researching and cracking every little component of the OS just to remain thieves. Yeah, once you know how to crack X, it may take you 2 minutes, but that's not the total amount of time you BURNED due to your PIRATE NATURE. I currently steal cuz it's easy. Once it's not easy enough, I won't. MS knows this, Apple knows this...everybody knows this...so piracy is going to go down, together with prices, while real competition will go up. In other words, if I'm gonna PAY for something, you're damn right I may not necessarily go for Vista. I may stick to XP...go to MacOS..Ubuntu..whatever.

1. There are reasons why people use "non-genuine" versions of the MS OS. - You can experience the exclusive "activation" thrice a day, if you are experimenting with OSses and end up with the OS you bought for 180 bucks and won't be able to use it, because of this exclusion due to a possible three times "activation" in three months. This is an unacceptable tyranny that motivates people to use non-genuine OS versions, even if they possess a money bought original version.

2. Who is able to investigate the figures given here?

3. Who is able to look behind these figures if they should be true? Meaning: who knows for what reasons these figures show up?

So - what are you all talking about? In my eyes it's very foolish to draw any conclusion from what is given by MS - or any comparable global player - other than what MS wants us to figure out: that they are a poor, poor and very nice company that has a lot of reasons to act even more restrictive and tyrannically than they did until now. °__°

This is called "targeted misinformation". Look at the comment of "extremely well".

Don't expect the better for the buyer and the user . . .

At least they give us a 60-day-trial. But they won't think about their monopoly attitude with "activation" and WGA and what-not . . .Shame on that kind of attitude.

Sad thing is even I have bought at least 5 copies of windows xp over the last 5 years. One for each new oem computer from dell hp etc. and 1 copy of a oem version from newegg. Now after figuring out that oem means once you have changed your computer beyond a certain point that version of windows you paid almost 100 dollars for is now dead. You have to buy a new version.

So it was at that time I jumped on emule and figured out just how easy pirating microsoft's os is. I mean its pitiful. so why would someone feed the beast over and over and over again when its that easy? I mean those computers are long gone that I had. How does microsoft think its fair that each processor is entitled to its "copy" of software and it is worth 100 dollars?

So point is, microsoft is using their monopoly to their advantage with a vengence. If microsoft had a 50/50 competitor, I can bet your sweet *** that microsoft wouldn't be able to pull crap like th at. That WGA that had a high percengate of failures that they install as a "critical" update. That would of ended them.

There is not a day that goes by I don't curse the judge that decided on the Microsoft case when they were convicted of abusing their monopoly. Majority of all the profits of the industry is going ot microsoft. Oem's give them billions along with companies and then you have us the home users. Can't unseat the king when everyone supports him.

I support MS and their anti-piracy methods. If nobody could be a pirate, REAL competition would occur, and me, the biggest pirate of MS software, would probably threaten and then calmly ACT on my threats to leave the MS-camp (to Mac/Linux) if the prices I am FORCED to pay are too high for my taste. This is why I also support DRM in the long run, even though I don't have a single DRM'ed music/video file in my possession (cuz I don't HAVE TO..right now). When I'll BE FORCED TO, then I will say "F YOU" to the artists who rape my wallet and listen to "nearly as good but at 1/10th price" artists. I could live quite happily without listening even to my most favorite singer...(if they think they're worth more than I think they are worth)...this isn't air & water we're talking about here... DRM = GOOD. This I say, again, while I will try to avoid it for as long as I can, just like I'll steal software for as long as I can. When I can't, then I'll know almost nobody else can, hence I'll know that what I pay IS what the product is worth - the most basic law of economics (supply and demand).

lmao...

Wow.

You do know that you come across now as a spoiled brat, right?

"I don't wanna pay!"
"When they FORCE me to pay, I'll find something else that IS!"
"It's everyone else's fault but mine!"

Blame the "big" pirates all you want. You're still part of the problem.

That means there are 114 million possible F/OSS (Free/Open Source Software) users out there. The grass is getting greener every day.

He! He! He! Yeah, everybody sees what he wants to see . . .

WGA has a very poor batting average of detecting truly 'illegal' windows installs. I have heard so many LEGAL OEM windows users get poop-pooed by this bogus WGA system. Yeah, considering how many OEM systems there are out there, I would take this claim with a pound of salt.

The # is not accurate, but it definitely means something.. Gives some direction... In other words if MS doesn't change its "thief counting" method, but by using the same (flawed) method the percentage of thieves drops by 10% next year (due to increased hassle in stealing the OS) - well they know they've done SOMETHING right. If, of course, they're in the habbit of disinformation, then they can come next year with either a higher or lower percentage of thieves, simply by changing the counting methodology to achieve the desired end result...

Hear !

Hear !

Here is thinking person . . .

I would have expected a percentage much higher since EVEN GENUINE INSTALLS SHOW UP AS NON-GENUINE!

Half of our XP machines show up as nongenuine even though the serial has been validated from microsoft. Go figure...

The false-postives get offset by the false-negatives to some degree. For example, I've gotten "caught" using a blacklisted VLK twice or thrice, hence I'm counted more than once as a thief. Of course nobody knows how they count me for the pre-blacklisting, as I passed WGA fine for months... And of course now I use a currently-non-blacklisted VLK so I'm "legit" in the eyes of Mickyshaft once, thief thrice...

Genuine ???

If you get the program from the original website
Then get a pirate serial number ..
Then the Software IS Genuine

Or is this a meaning of the word Genuine I was previously unaware of ?!

You mean they consider software activated with a non-genuine, pirated key to...

*gasp*

...*not* be genuine??

Heaven, forbid!

Dude, the keys are part of what they use to determine validity. If you use a pirated key on a copy you actually have a valid key for, you're asking for it. Can you fault them for giving it to you?

Yeah, yeah . . .

Figures don't lie, but liars can figure . . .

That's still hellovalot more than I ever thought.

They can't possibly know for sure since VL installs don't get counted. They will for Vista though. They've admitted several times that their estimates for pirated VL installs are a guess.

I have a VLK'ed XP Pro (Corp..naturally) and had been asked to go through WGA a few times.... had to change my VLK twice/thrice so I could keep passing it. Better than crappy WGA cracks.

Some VL customers don't have to use WGA.

I seriously doubt it. In fact, not only do I seriously doubt it, I know for a fact that ALL PIRATED VLK versions of XP Pro Corp on the net still require WGA..unless u specifically cracked it, which has NOTHING to do with VLK or non-VLK of course.

There are VL contracts without WGA.

VLK users are obliged to use WGA on XP as well as on Vista.

That's a typo, they meant 22% are genuine.

I would agree.

Another article mentioned that IE7 downloads numbered 25%
Since IE7 has WGA included maybe only 25% could install it - because only 25% had 'Genuine' Windows

I admit, i did pirate XP, on my old (and now disposed) PC. I did so because I got sick of seeing the dreaded blue-screen so frequently, even after a month of reinstallation on Millenium Edition. I paid for this OS, it was faulty. Can I get my money back? No. If ME would have worked properly, would I have pirated? NO !
I have a feeling that many were in the same situation.

MS can be glad, however, that Vista isn't that much better than XP, and if their WPA works on Vista, then more will just convert to linux (for good).

The vast majority of Windows users can't handle the complexity of Linux, even with the newer, simplified distros like Ubuntu, Fedora and Suse. If they switch to anything, it'll be a Mac. It's much more in line with their capabilities (simplified user interface, etc.)

My next door neighbor bought a brand new Dell, the most expensive XPS he could afford. He plays Solitaire and surfs the web. That's it. He can't hook up a USB printer. I know from experience that there are thousands like him. Imagine handing him a Linux disk and saying "here you go, switch over!"

ME was excellent, it was said in the 2000 MS ads, and I believed them and bought it. It was a bad decision: every now and then a blue screen and a new restart. I used ME for only one month. I feel I lost my time, and also some of my files and of course my money. Since then I decided I would never again join the MS upgrade bandwagon. I reloaded the Windows 98 SE I had bought in 1999 and I keep using it since then. For me it is enough. The tiny and old Windows 98 SE gives you some problems, but not others that everybody knows and which are even worse, and is more compatible than any other. If you renew some elements (Firefox, Maxthon, Thunderbird, Foxmail, Notepad++ etc.), and you use registry cleaners, disk cleaners and system optimizers, and of course if you use it properly, it is very reliable and blue screens do never appear at all.

Don't get me wrong. I like Linux but most Windows users are to ignorant to use Linux.

Nearly nobody will "switch" to Vista. XP is just so good that even if your PC is 1 year old, you'd normally just let it be (XP). People will start using Vista when it comes preinstalled on their PC, or possibly if they can get a very cheap upgrade to Vista Home which they'll consider installing upon an XP OS crash. "Out of the blue" the vast majority will not upgrade XP to Vista, if only because XP is going to be much easier to steal for the next few years while Vista-stealing will be a major PITA requiring constant cracking.

Yeah, right. Within a week or two of Windows Me's release, every techie-type and his dog knew it was a POS OS. If you buy your products based on maker's promises, well...you're gonna be a very frustrated individual. If, on the other hand, you purchase a product knowing fully well its FLAWS BASED ON USER REVIEW, then you'd know at least what to expect in the WORST CASE SCENARIO... Of course with Me, vast majority had stability issues right from the start...so it didn't take too much effort to educate yourself on the matter.

I have learnt a lot since then. You are right.

good one. IT people are afraid of using linux. Its too bad one of the orgs for linux didn't market linux well enough to really compete with ms. windows wouldn't have such a following if it was marketed like 2k or xp. Theres no money in marketing an os you can get for free though...

most recently purchased computers or oem copies of windows xp have been coming with free upgrade coupons to vista for months now.

Vista has so many issues that Microsoft already announced that it's working on SP1 .. which I bet will be out by next summer if not even earlier.

Sad thing is vista is just as easy to crack if not easier then xp. Go do a search its pitiful. The os isn't even out yet and you can hack the activation on it. It takes 5 mins. 400 dollar os, free. RTM I might add. the only thing microsoft could do is post a "important activation system update" that showed up in the windows udpate program. Optional install I might add. So yeah microsoft put who knows how much though and effort into that. No doubt that is where half of the windows R&D money went.

Microsoft thinks they are so smart, well the sad thing is they can invent a lock for software and its broken faster then they could of created it. They are wasting all the time money and customer service and quality of product on this and its rediculous.

If you lock down a bank so tight with guards, locked doors and bank card checks at the door, your going to have a lot of people say this isn't worth it. I am going down the corner bank and I am not going to feel like a criminal just for banking there. Where do you draw the line? I already feel like a criminal when I have to validate my windows install at microsoft.com just to download the latest directx.

This kind of characterisation of a "typical windows user", along with OS pissing contests in general, is out of date. Although I'm sure it makes some people feel better to think of the world as a mass of drooling idiots who haven't a fraction of their awesome intelligence.

I've set Ubuntu up for family friends in their 60s, and after a brief tour of which programs are where, they have very few problems with it.

I suspect that lack of application support, and the cost in money time of getting up to speed with unfamiliar new software is what is keeping people stuck on windows. Not stupid users.

or perhaps they prefer spending time with their family and friends over figuring out how to write shell scripts in order to fetch their email.

We're talking about ppl PAYING to "switch" to Vista and how FEW they will be IMHO. Free upgrade from XP to Vista is the same as PREINSTALLED VISTA in my post, obviously...

I don't think Vista will be easy to crack in the long run. If you intend on running as close to bug-free and known-security-holes-free OS, you want Windows Updates turned ON, which means MS could and WILL at some point force WGA for security patches, or even they will inject crack-finding-code in some patch-EXEs. You have no business removing WGA with KNOWN CRACK X, per license agreement, thus MS can do that check for CRACK X whenever they want. If that self-check is pepper-sprayed 50,000 times in SP1 for Vista (for example), it's gonna take a while to clean off those checks and release a cracked-SP1... NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MINDS WILL SPEND HOURS MONTHLY CRACKING THEIR OS. MS will win the war against pirates, in my opinion...and in the future, Palladium (hardware encryption chip) will assist to the point it will be IMPOSSIBLE to crack/steal ANY SOFTWARE... Yeah some will say "anything is crackable"... not really... first go spend some time in cracking forums and know what is feasible and what isn't... then you'll realize some cracking are just not feasible even if possible. Spending 50 years cracking an OS is indeed crackable: it makes me crack up...

If you were able to set up to fetch your email with Outlook Express, you could as easily set up to fetch email with Evolution in Linux. I can't imagine having to write a shell script to do so.

Actually, most Linux distributions are easier and quicker to set up than Windows. You can merely install, set up a few channels for extra packages and have everything you need...then, spend time with family or friends.

Or, you can install Windows....pay a fortune for different applications you want.....or hunt for days for free versions....and give up the time with family and friends, in exchange for responding to the Windows message, "You must restart Windows in order to complete the installation," messages.

Or, you can install Linux and just enjoy most everything you did with Windows (and some applications you can't get with Windows), or you can spend your time whining about how difficult it is to hack proprietary software.

On the other side of the coin, Linux doesn't have half of the support that Windows does when it comes to software/gaming.

That is true if one is using a computer solely for gaming, which in my case, I don't. The few games I play work fine in Linux and if I were a gamer, I'd buy a WII, XBox or something specifically for gaming. As for functions associated with use of a computer, Linux works great in my case.

22% only?
Are you kidding? I bet it's about 98%

And don't forget that there is a xp prof sp2 version which doesn't need to activate and can bypass wga

Does the 22% cover people who use cracked WGA files?

If they got the "gotcha" message before they ventured into the realm of WGA-cracking, then yes, they're counted as thieves. If they cracked WGA on a virgin pirated OS knowing-in-advance they'll fail WGA anyway - then no, that theft is probably not counted for nothing. Basically they're going (my guess) by the ppl who went through WGA process.

Well, Vista should solve that problem for them.

re : 56,000 reports have been made by customers of counterfeit software, which grants that user a free replacement copy of Windows.Don't Know but

We Know LOTS of people Who had Genuine Copies but had to contact Their computer Manufacturer at a Huge Loss of Time to Get Things Resolved Before They Could Do a Proper Windows Update as Well...

First: Learn how to use capital letters.
Second: Huge loss of time? It's a 2 minute, free, phone call!

2 minutes times a lot of people is a lot of time wasted.

yes the collective nose picking that could have been accomplished by each person during that 2 minute period is a grevious loss to society. what a ridiculous argument, seriously.

2 minutes * a lot of people = still nothing of consequence since they aren't collaborating, or if they are, can't accomplish very much in 2 minutes.

hey, I like picking my nose! and I need all the time I can get to do just that! ;-)

Seriously, it is more of a waste of microsoft to pay people to sit on the phones. all the OEM reinstalls I have done ended up have to give ms a call. and so what!

Perhaps you should start talking your customers/clients/business to start using something other than OEM installs if this is a frequent occurance.

OEM isn't really supposed to be "re-installed". That's one of the reasons they usually supply restore CD's instead of the OS CD.

OHHH, if I could get these ppl to do just that! not happening though.

The focus is that microsoft has call centers awaiting your call.

The difference of WGA violations are these:
1. Pirates who have copied the CD and put nice packaging on it and sold it.
2. Pirates who have downloaded and installed it. IMHO MS does not care about these so much. I think they will allow vista to pirate like this to a certain degree (to get IT and pirates to use and recommend it), but will disable it within 6 months.

They are going to stop #1 if they can. #2 is inconsequential. They will make it a hassle to fix it, so people will just buy it.

Heh..

Agree with you on both counts. They're not after the losers here, but the resellers. If they give these guys a hassle, that's just icing.

esp here in Asia...

--
http://myagloconetwork.blogspot.com

Wait... so If someone tries to validate a pirated copy of Windows and it fails, they get a free, legit copy of Windows? That makes absolutely no sense.

56,000 reports have been made by customers of counterfeit software, which grants that user a free replacement copy of Windows.

The free replacement only occurs when they report the person or company that distributed the pirated version to them, and generally then only if they are able to gather enough information to actually do something about it.

No, they're not giving pirates free copies.

...well, not intentionally.

I mean...

It's not like the pirates are paying for their copies.

So...

*sigh*

Okay, last beer. I swear.

Well, for tonight at least.

IMHO they know it. They are not silly people, but a giant thinking power, and follow the old war aphorism " If you can not destroy the enemy, ally with him". For MS the future is what really matters: they are investing big money to earn many more millions of dollars, by reinforcing their power and influence not only in the USA but also all over the world. Present customers of counterfeit software are nevertheless customers anyway, and this way they don't use Linux or any other substitute. This is good for MS. Meanwhile, they and their hardware producing allied corporations have the power to make us all MS-adicts in a near future dependent and paying people, including that customers of counterfeit software. You may search for "TCPA" on the Goggle, for details.

in order to get a free copy you have to turn in the person who sold you the illegal copy. if you pirated it yourself then you just get your windows deactivated.

they have it in many computers already. you can turn it off in bios.....

I believe MS wants our computers to be totally in their hands, putting security before freedom (jail security?)and this is the real reason for a system so incredibly bulky. Most of those who buy a new computer do not understand anything of op-sys and go wherever they are driven. I'm afraid maybe in a short term you can't turn it off in bios any more.

What MS want is maximize profit. They don't care what hardware it's software runs on, as long as they get pay for it.

Some can even argues that MS created software piracy. MS has some of the smartest mind in the industry, they know all the piracy exist, but they are not stopping it until recently. Why? Simple, in the past, they don't have a dominate position. In order to have a more dominate position and without scarifing profit, they allowed their software to be pirated by individual. Remember, those who will not buy, will never buy it. Corporate will not risk their business with pirate softare. Now, they capture most of the market, and want to stop piracy.

You are 110% correct. MS has encouraged piracy in the home simply by NOT suing end-users like RIAA has done etc. They have NOT went ALL OUT on the home pirate. As you and I both know, they WILL eventually. This is why I don't have any remorse stealing MS software. Nor will I have any problem paying for MS software, or software by anyone else, the exact amount of money only I think is fair. If it aint fair, I'll stick to my old OS for as long as possible before possibly jumping ship and going with the competition (Mac/Linux/Windows-clone).

Since when do *you* determine fair price? What gives *you* the right to determine the price of any companies products? Selfish much? Entitled much?

Don't buy it if it's too expensive, fine. But saying the cost excuses theft is absurd. The only control consumers have over price is choosing to buy or not to buy.

This is how economics work.

Piracy simply throws all of that out the window and actually delays or completely dashes *any* hope that the market would correct itself via supply/demand. It is the reason companies must resort to draconian measures to try and keep folks honest.

I agreed with everything you said in advance already. The only difference is that you think that by "talking about piracy" it's gonna make any real difference. Most people BREAK THE LAW VERY HAPPILY WITH NO REMORSE when it comes to software piracy. The only way to combat it and, as we both agreed, bring supply-demand back (which will lower software prices, intensify competition, etc) is to FORCE PEOPLE TO PAY by hurting those who pirate REAL BAD. Until this is done, I'll continue being a pirate, and you can continue being a "sucker" in my book. Yes, I AM selfish, just like you. We're both true to ourselves hence by definition we are selfish and will remain so FOREVER.

You cannot logically pirate *and* wait for supply/demand to compensate.

That's not the way it works.

Sorry to inform you, but your belief system is flawed. The two cannot logically co-exist.

One thing about OEM software...you can get a full version of ultimate for $200...as far as I can see it doesn't say I have to use it on a brand new pc...

It doesn't. You can install OEM versions on old computers, new computers, etc... But you are limited on the number of times you can reactivate and you will have a hard time transferring it to another PC later on.

This is fine for folks buying new systems (which generally come with the OEM edition), or upgrading an older PC if they don't plan on replacing it any time soon. (or plan on replacing it with a PC that comes with it installed, again, likely OEM)

Retail edition is for the hardware enthusiasts who can spend the extra dough so they can do upgrades and swaps without too much hassle.

90% of the population could easily get by with the OEM edition.

Geez. The whole key management infrastructure crap you have to deal with in Vista (business environments) was driven by this. Now legit business IT staff will have to suffer with the added crap due to others pirating. Once again, the good folk pay for the bad folk.

At least it won't be a nightmare. KMS servers are simple to set up on existing hardware and require pretty much zero admin after the initial setup.

*if* you have a nice homogenious network where clients are accessible "most" of the time. We work in a military extended periods (without WAN connectivity). Secure processing is done in NON-networked enclosures. We aren't going to be migrating anytime soon.

Sorry, forgot to include the , "aside from certain rare and special circumstances". :p

So you're not gonna be connected to the internet for more than 180days? (the period required to re-authenticate with KMS) If so, the "punishment" you'll get for not doing so..is..getting cut off from the net... Kind of a small price to pay when you aren't allowed to connect to the internet, no?

And of course MS will also allow you to pre-allocate a single code on MS server, so that you will activate ONCE (and get CHARGED/counted per activation) and never have to authenticate again. Can't even do that? Pick up the phone and manually activate each machine. You WILL run Vista on a PC your group will purchase in 3 years. You're NOT gonna downgrade it to XP instead of going through the "immense" amount of trouble Activating Vista...

MS has thought out the key management VERY WELL for Vista. They're so confident in its success (as I am, amid the crybabies who often know not what they speak) that they're promising to use it for ALL MS PRODUCTS IN THE FUTURE.

I believe that the number is much higher than they are letting on. There are keygens out there that make valid CD-Keys that will pass validation, and of course there are also cracked copies of the validation updates as well that make Microsoft believe that you are a valid user.

Never believe everything you hear from a corporation. They lie as a matter of policy.

I wonder how many installs that do not come with a new PC are genuine.

Wow 512 million users actually tried to validate.

So 112 million (22%) users:

a) Stupidly tried to validate their OS in spite of knowing their OS was pirated.

b) Discovered through WGA that their OS was bogus.

What this figure doesn't count though is those who know their OS is bogus and ignore WGA altogether. The piracy rate is a lot higher than 22%!

" Stupidly tried to validate their OS in spite of knowing their OS was pirated."

In some cases, sure, stupidy. But in many others, maybe they were desperate for updates and didn't know they could download free critical updates from Windows Download Center or, better yet, didn't know about Autopatcher. In some other cases, they were just curious to see what would happen :)

Knowing the way numbers get faked, these days, it was probably more like 5 million people trying over and over again. Some people just don't get "NO!" the first time.

Having come from India, I know why people in 3rd world countires still use Windows-95 or Windows-98 or even Windows 2000. With the exchange rate between US Dollar and Indian Rupee at 1:46 ($1 = 45 Rs), think about a person spending $199 + import tax, approx $260 = 11,960 Rs, which for some is almost 1 month's salary and that would be an years pay.

Think about it. if you had to pay your month's salary for a legitimate copy of an OS for your PC, would you pay for it?

Why would they want to upgrade or even think about purchasing this OS legally, when it can be obtained by asking his/her friend for a copy?

Most of these folks who cannot afford it, usually will have dial-up access to internet and are not worried about viruses or worms.

This is one of the main reasons why Linux is so popular in India. Not only is it affordable by the poor, it almost gives them the same set of applications they use (browser, IM client and editing office documents).

I visited India in November 2006 and was nicely surprised to see small shops, libraries, banks and insurance companies using RedHat or customised linux desktops and servers.

-GGR
Rajiv G Gunja

Totally agreed with you Rajiv,

I live in Mexico, and the average income is about 160 dollars per month... so it's obviously ridiculous to thing people would buy i legitimate copy of Windows Vista.

And before other guys start to bash me, i know there's a lot of people who earn more than 2000 dollars a month, but the minimum wage is around 5 dollars a day, and that applies for most of the people in Mexico.

If these guys could get down to earth and charge a fair amount of money for their software I'm sure there would be a lot more legitimate users, meanwhile it's better stick with free options.

Interesting points by both Rajiv and Sadred. But I cannot see Microsoft lowering their prices by too much in developing countries. If the price gap is too high everyone including 1st world counties would seek the lower price and order from abroad. Maybe a Vista currency index needs to be created much like the ipod index below:

2GB Nano
1. Brazil $327.71
2. India $222.27
3. Sweden $213.03
4. Denmark $208.25
5. Belgium $205.81
6. France $205.80
7. Finland $205.80
8. Ireland $205.79
9. UK $195.04
10. Austria $192.86
11. Netherlands $192.86
12. Spain $192.86
13. Italy $192.86
14. Germany $192.46
15. China $179.84
16. South Korea $176.17
17. Switzerland $175.59
18. New Zealand $172.53
19. Australia $172.36
20. Taiwan $164.88
21. Singapore $161.25
22. Mexico $154.46
23. U.S. $149.00
24. Japan $147.63
25. Hong Kong $147.35
26. Canada $144.20

Rajiv and Sadred, I do see both your points; but the low income of MS' customers in other countries does not change the development costs they incurred developing it. Also, in some ways, one month's salary is not extreme amount when you are talking about a product you will use on a regular basis for the next 5+ years. If we used the "one month's salary" measure for everything, there would be too many things people "shouldn't have to pay for" to even count.

Thanks Rajiv for point the problem. Me too from neighboring country Sri Lanka I worked in war tone area Trincomalee by risking my life all for the salary almost equal to the price of Windows XP.I run Fedora Linux 6 at home and I am quite happy about it. Linux is very becoming popular in the Asian countries. This trend will continue unless Microsoft reduce the software cost and Microsoft likely to loose significant market in the Asian countries. Microsoft definitely can reduce the software costs if they move the development center in the Asian countries like Sri Lanka, India and etc that way they can find employees at low salary that will result in Microsoft in making OS at a cheap affordable rate.

Grazer, yes the development cost for a MS product will not come down. That is the reason why MS has so many developers in India and other Countries.

The other fact I mentioned that many Indian firms are going behind Linux is the reason why MS has introduced the stripped down version of Windows XP in India, Indonesia, etc.

This is also one of the reason why MIT is developing OLPC (one laptop per child).

I do not know which country you are from or where you reside, but here is the reality: IT professionals in India are paid a lot compared to the other fields of work, viz scientist, electrical Engg, Mechanical Engg, etc.

There is a wide gap in the pay structure. Yes these IT professionals can afford this exorbitant price of $199 for an OS. Beleive me, these IT professionals still do not earn as much as an IT professional would earn in Europe/Australia/US/UK. Example wage as of 2006 would be so: Software programmer with 10 years Exp would get $30,000 per year in India, whereas the same exp would fetch an average of $80,000 in the US.

A professor with Phd and 7 years of Exp in India on an average would get $4000 per year.

Tell me, can we really compare these two professions or their salary and expect everyone to pay the same?

No we cannot. That is they reason why people resort to piracy.

One thing I noticed in my recent visit to India is that magazines and Govt are advertising Linux as an alternative OS.

As most of the general population cannot afford to buy brand PC (HP, Acer, Dell), they assemble their own PCs with the help of a local PC expert. What do you think would be the next logical step? Buying OS from store? Nope, the local PC expert will install the OS he has on his PC and as survey has shown 95% of deskop PCs are Windows OS, so obviously that will be a pirated version of the Windows OS.

One way to stop Piracy is to do what MS is trying to do with Vista, which is a little harsh or sell the 3rd world countries the OS at a lesser price.

-GGR
Rajiv G Gunja

I have beta testing Vista RC1. Nice OS upgrade from WinXP.

I think I finally get it!

People love Windows SO MUCH that many are willing to go the extra mile and risk terrible tribulation just to enjoy the power, stability, elegant interface, and overall excellent user experience that is Windows!

Now that is one dedicated user base!

LOL! LMAO! Hahahaha! ROFL! Stop it, you're killin' me!

Imagine that you've just bought a new car from Chevrolet and, having paid for it fully in cash, you own it outright. However, before you drive away, Chevrolet forces you to go through a company registration process which officially connects you to that particular vehicle.

So you drive away only to discover that, much to your surprise, the car will only run on Chevrolet gasoline which can only be purchased at Chevrolet stations; but before you can actually fill your tank at the Chevrolet-owned station, you must provide documented proof of your ownership.

In addition, you learn that every so you will be notified that defects have been discovered in your car and you must go to an official Chevrolet repair shop where you will be forced to accept and install the critical repairs necessary to keep you car running.

Then you also learn that you are restricted to driving only on Chevrolet-approved roads and highways and you are not allowed to let anybody else drive the car without paying an extra licensing fee to Chevrolet.

Also, you car regularly shuts down for no apparent reason, turns left when you want to go right and needs to be restarted numerous times during a long trip. Then there are those times when you open the hood only to discover that a critical part of the car...crucial for proper operation...has somehow mysteriously vanished.

Would you buy a car like this ?

No, but then again, we're not talking about cars, are we genius?

What is it with these people and car analogies?!?!?

Get it through your thick heads that They Do Not Work.

Amazingly, they are two entirely different products governed by different laws. There are no similarities, no shared lines of production or sale... They have *nothing* in common.

This already happens every month a car manufacturer has some sort of recall...

Windows isn't charging you to fix it...

You have the choice to buy it or buy something else no one is forcing you to use Windows...

I don't understand why people who hate Windows come on a story ABOUT WINDOWS and complain...

Is that it?

You have nothing better to do?

for all of its faults (so long as you use some kind of security and use common sense Windows can be locked down quite well using permissions and group policy granted not everyone can do this but its still a possibility)

It still does everything there are hundreds of thousands of freeware software for Windows you can do just about everything with it (yes Linux is free and has hundreds of thousands of free apps but its not everyday joe schmoe user friendly)

I don't know about mac with freeware apps so I cannot comment on that but I haven't heard of many...I am sure there are but since it has a smaller market share its not a big topic...

I once glued wheels to an empty NT box and rolled it down my hallway. With enough glue and cardboard, I could make it into a worthy car. :)

It's probably be easier to buy a conversion van and paint it, though.

The Original "Urban Legend"

*****************************************

If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:

1. For no reason at all, your car would crash twice a day.

2. Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you would have to buy a new car.

3. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left-turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, and you would have to reinstall the engine.

4. When your car died on the freeway for no reason, you would just accept this, restart and drive on.

5. Only one person at a time could use the car, unless you bought 'Car95' or 'CarNT', and then added more seats.

6. Apple would make a car powered by the sun, reliable, five times as fast, and twice as easy to drive, but would run on only five per cent of the roads.

7. Oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights would be replaced by a single 'general car default' warning light.

8. New seats would force every-one to have the same size butt.

9. The airbag would say 'Are you sure?' before going off.

10. Occasionally, for no reason, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key, and grabbed the radio antenna.

11. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of road maps from Rand-McNally (a subsidiary of GM), even though they neither need them nor want them. Trying to delete this option would immediately cause the car's performance to diminish by 50 per cent or more. Moreover, GM would become a target for investigation by the Justice Department.

12. Every time GM introduced a new model, car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.

13. You would press the 'start' button to shut off the engine.

That is so ancient it's almost new again...

...or not.

"You have nothing better to do?"

Well, there's root canals, but this is easier. ;o)

"What is it with these people and car analogies?!?!?"

i liked it!
:-)

Not to mention it is riddled with so many inaccuracies that it ceases to be funny.

I'm shocked, man. Just shocked. :p

Does this mean that it's 22% overpriced? Seriously... that's a ridiculously low piracy rate. The reason is simple - most people acquire it legally. Businesses don't screw with licensing, usually, and the general public usually acquire Windows via OEM.

Most people, I'd suggest, that are using Vista improperly today are exactly the people who will be early adopters on new PCs. Again, buying Vista via OEM.

Hopefully with all of the "previews", making legal test drives like they have starts leading the industry in this direction.

"that's a ridiculously low piracy rate. "

I agree, I'm actually surprised.

Holy crap.

I didn't actually think it was that bad.

22% pirated.

Yeah, I can imagine why they'd go a tad overboard on the WGA. That's ridiculous.

114 million Americans have entitlement, personal responsibility, and a total lack of self control.

..I suppose it shouldn't surprise me. The whole damned country has been acting like spoiled rotten rich-kids for the last few decades. I suppose it was only a matter of time.

Head. Sand. Buried.

well if they would lower the price to somewhat reasonable levels, i think that more people would pay.
i can see why so many people do it though. many can't afford the upgrade but living with windows 98 was pure hell... let's not even talk about winme (crap) or win2000 (ridden with compatibility problems).

22% RATE is probably the entire world combined, less in USA and high elsewhere wouldn't you agree?

Lame.

Sorry, can't afford it? Can't have it. At least, that would be the responsible answer.

Of course, in our age of enlightened selfishness and total lack of personal moral accountability and responsibility...who cares?

Doesn't matter, right? Hell, nothing matters so long as everyone gets what they want, eh? Why should we have to work for it? Why should we have to pay for it? Why take responsibility for our actions, or the actions of our children? If anything goes wrong, we can just sue someone else, right?

There's always someone else. It's always someone else's fault. It costs too much, they're Evil™, they put too much DRM in it, they let Evil People™ contact my children on their site...

The article states 22% in North America.

"Sorry, can't afford it? Can't have it. At least, that would be the responsible answer."

I think lots of people are starting to adopt your way of thinking. Microsoft, however, may not like the result. What's puzzling is how ticked off they seem to get when people say, "Hey, I can't afford it, so I'm going to try something else."

...and when did they get ticked off about that?

Right before they partnered with Novell?

The whole damned country has been acting like spoiled rotten rich-kids for the last few decades. I suppose it was only a matter of time.

Exactly, I couldnt have said it better!

I actually found 98 quite stable when I used it. I didn't upgrade until my hardware died, and then it was only because my new computer came with WinME...I bought Win2K within a month of being exposed to WinME. The only compatibility problems I had under Win2K was with cheap Win3.1 software.

I wonder how many of those 114 million "non-genuine" installs are in fact perfectly legal installs that WGA incorrectly classified?

Mary Jo says less than 1%
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=207

Probably not that many. Even if you knock 14 million off of that it's still absurd.

Responsibility is officially dead in this country. We pirate it if we don't want to pay for it, we blame the store, the country, or the intarweb when the consequences of our actions hit us.

No wonder the world hates us. We're the snooty spoiled rich kid. Sticking our noses in the air...well, when we're not too busy sticking it in everyone else's business.

The responsibility rant is getting a little redundant and stale. Have another beer! Or maybe move to China.

Ain't statistics fun!?

nah, the world hates us because people love to hate, and it's not limited to people, even aliens love to hate, just look at ID4 and war of the worlds. the live long and prosper hand gesture is really the equivalent to the middle finger for volcans.

lmao.

Coming from you, I really don't think you're anywhere near qualified to talk about responsibility.

Don't like hearing it? Too bad. You are always free to go elsewhere.

100% of my 6 installs are genuine :p

Good God man! How do you sleep at night supporting those evil capitalists? :P

and your 6 licenses are genuine.

He never mentioned he paid for them. ;) There are many many unblacklisted VLK's yet...

100% of my 5 Linux installs are genuine, as well. Not a pirated application on any of them....and they perform any functions I want or need. Only thing I'm missing is spyware, viruses and the BSOD.:)

One reason it's so highly pirated is because people aren't willing to pay for this crap anymore. No one wants to be locked in by any Microsoft software. I'm wondering if Microsoft is willing to lose 22-40% of its market share to its WGA follies? What's ironic is that Vista and Office 07 have directly pushed greater adoption of Ubuntu (Linux), OpenOffice, and open standards.

It was a good run, though.

What you said makes no sense at all. If people know that windows is a piece of crap why would they try to pirate it and use it? If you were smart enough you would not want to use it knowing it's crap, right?

Some people might not WANT to but they HAVE to. I DJ with my computer and the software I use is for windows only (won't work under WINE). It is however the best software out there that I've seen so I'm stuck in a windows world till they make a *nix port.

I'm still learning FreeBSD in the meantime though.

Also it is possible some people just don't know of any alternative OS's. But that's alright since most of those people aren't smart enough to use anything else but windows. After all it is the most "user friendly".... besides a Mac that is.

...still no reason to pirate it.

Or better yet, switch to linux/MacOS and push the software manufacturers in that market to add the features you require.

What? That excuses nothing. If someone "HAS" to use windows because of their job then get their employer to pay for it, if they are their own employer and their business is making money while using MS software, they should be paying for it or find an alternative. If they don't know enough about computers and are too lazy to learn more then that's their own problem not an excuse to steal it.

lmao...

Always entertaining to hear from ya, man.

One reason it's so highly pirated is because people aren't willing to pay for this crap anymore.

Yeah. These are the same people suing MySpace and trying to get the Gov to enforce Video Game ratings. Completely unable to take responsibility for their own choices. Dim-witted, self-indulgent, and selfish.

These are your heroes, eh?

Sucks to be you.

If you HAVE to use windows for your application to work correctly, then the cost of windows is just part of the cost of being able to use that application.

I also DJ, and I know it is not an inexpensive hobby. The $200 cost of a windows operating system, next to the cost of Professional DJ/Audio software is barely nothing! The alternative is to actually improve your skills - and use professional hardware (which might I add, is also not cheap, starting at $500+ for AmericanDJ and $800+ for Denon or Pioneer).

If you truly are a professional DJ and $200 is too much to front for a tool that makes you sound (and look?) better, I can hardly guess that you purchase all of your music legally - or you just suck at being a DJ and cannot make a decent DJ's pay.

There's only one feature keeping me with Windows: games. :(

No, it's so highly pirated because it is so easy to do so. It isn't like walking into a retail store under the scrutiny of security cameras, mirrors, watchful staff, and the alarms that go off at the door for unpaid merchandise, attempting to conceal a product under your coat and walk out of the store with it. It's all done from the convenience and privacy of your own home. A pirated key, especially a corporate key (they don't need product activation), is all it takes to activate Windows, followed by free "critical" updates from Windows download centre, or just about everything you need from Autopatcher. Of course it is not right, but that is all - and then some - it really takes.

It is amazing how many people think windows is a crap platform, and still can't figure out why it has all the software worth running...thinking it is only market share.

Gaming is definitely the big one, but there's also the fact that MACs have their own equal set of "dictated by the mothership" issues, and Linux is a pain in the azz to use and all its apps are ugly smelly stepchildren compared to their Windows/MAC equivalents.

PC_Tool, keep hitting that nail on the head. Yes, too many people are dishonest and more than willing to justify that away with one lame excuse after another.

Excellent idea. Buy a Mac and a game console, and the need for Windows ends. It's an option.

Wah! The world hates us. We're all irresponsible! Billionaires are our only friends and so much better than we are. We're all so useless, everybody hates us. We hate ourselves!

Man, get therapy already!

lmao...

Yeah, that's me. *I'm* the irresponsible one.

You have ripped through all of the chaff and clutter and gotten right to the heart of the issue. Surely, you are an induhvidual to be praised.

/sarcasm

Then you're either a wedding DJ or up there with Van Buren and Olkenfold (wait you said American Audio/DJ, nm).

Also I'm a goth/industrial DJ so there goes the money issue, most of us make almost nothing which barely covers gas and new music (Translation, I'd rather pay my money to starving artists rather than some megacorp).

Hey, once they come out with PCDJ for the MAC I'm all about that, till then I'm stuck.

...still no reason to pirate. Business expenses add up. It's the cost of doing business.

If it's too much, perhaps you need to think about another line of work, eh?

Well if the official figure's really that low - just think what the actual figure is.

Boycott Vista. It's truly crap. Truly infested with DRM which limits your machine's potential.

Vista is for Lamers, start the Boycott Campaign!!!

If Mac, Linux, or any other OS out there plans on supporting any new hardware (motherboards, video cards, tuners, etc), they will have to also support HDCP.

There's no way around it. Vista is simply the first OS to support this next generation of hardware. MacOS will follow, Linux will have to as well if it wants to remain semi-viable.

This is not an MS thing. It's a hardware thing.

Why couldn't Linux just leave out support for these 'features' in the hardware? I imagine Apple will be more than keen to jump on the DRM-bandwagon but the Linux community won't support it. If kernel re-writes are necessary to workaround DRM-damaged hardware, then it will be done.

The will is there in the Linux community - it's frightening! :)

lol.

What's frightening is how easy you seem to think it will be...

Yeah. They can rewrite the kernel all they want.

Of course, they'll also need to hack up some Managed Drivers, TPM chips, and device firmware...

Simply don't buy DRM hardware. Looks at Blue-Ray and HD discs, they are a dead market with only lamers buying them.

Sorry but as a computer hobbyist I wont be encouraging DRM items. I'll even buy a Chinese CPU if needs be.

Product competition is the way. If the so called big players want to ram down DRM items then we need to show we wont buy them.

We also need to pirate all things DRM to prove it doesn't work.

Another freedom fighter...aka Idiot.

If you don't want to buy it great. More power to you. You lose all effectiveness however, by pirating it. It only makes them try harder.

Doesn't DVD have DRM?

I was with you right up to...

"We also need to pirate all things DRM to prove it doesn't work."

Then you just lost ALL credibility, grow up.

PC_Tool, I take it you wouldn't protest so much and spend your entire day posting vain responses here unless you knew Windows is losing ground, and Microsoft should be embarrassed to have spent six years and (how many?) billions developing the complete POS that is Vista and Office '07. You seem to take anyone else's opinion as a personal attack on you, and you turn around and personally attack everyone on here, calling them names like a 3rd grader. I take it you are really about 12-13 years old in real life? Either way, you're an ill-prepared and at the very least, anachronistic defender of Microsoft.

Microsoft announced SP1 yesterday, before it's even officially released. Nothing could be lamer than that. Period.

No matter how loud and often you whine, Open Source will win in the end, and it's coming sooner than you think. Microsoft will welcome every nickel you send them, and Bill will spend it on liberal causes around the globe that I'm sure you abhor. Frankly, I could care less. However, I urge everyone to either move on to Ubuntu and have some fun, or wait for Vienna, due in a couple of years when Vista never quite catches on.

"Microsoft announced SP1 yesterday, before it's even officially released. Nothing could be lamer than that. Period."

So...anyone who announces a patch or software release ahead of time is lame? That should be news to the software world considering EVERYONE does that, it's marketing 101. Damn good thing they do to, if you managed any number of systems you would know why.

"No matter how loud and often you whine, Open Source will win in the end, and it's coming sooner than you think."

No it wont and no it isn't. OS still has and always will have a problem with the "last 10%" (i.e the finishing touches) and it's that last 10% which sells software for good or ill. Too many OS packages out there fail to provide anything resembling decent documentation or a decent user interface, nevermind decent support options. OS is great for the geeks like us, but it doesn't sell it self to the marketing weenies, and executive jockies that hold the corporate purse strings. Nor does it sell itself to the mom and pops of the world (excepting those who actually understand and care about technology and not just sending email to the grandkids)

"I urge everyone to either move on to Ubuntu and have some fun"

yes...have "fun" getting Ubuntu to work with your homes wireless network. You know...the one that works out of the box in Windows. Have "fun" playing that awesome Tux game, sliding down mountains as a giant penguin, since no other games exist. Have "fun" dealing with the atrocity that is Open Office. Have "fun" figuring out the archaic and unintuitive commands that you must resort to in order to accomplish anything or to fix a problem. Yes I'm sure your average joe computer user will have tons of "fun" with Ubuntu.

lmao...

Do you honestly think that they'd have *no* plan for future enhancements or better ways to implement certain things looking forward?

Do you think they could actually *ever* release a product if they waited until they had everything not just working, but working in the best possible way?

Have you ever sat down and coded anything more complex than a "Hello world" program? Even websites go through revisions...and the designers have ideas for future feature additions and code-cleaning.

Do you think Ubuntu doesn't have a development plan? They may not call them service packs, but the differences between Hoary and Dapper were actually *less* than SP1 and SP2 of XP.

Open source will win....That's funny.

And as for what Mr. Gates does with his money? I couldn't care less. It's his money.

Nice to see another vapid response from you telling me how wrong I am when you cannot respond to *any* of the actual points made against *any* of the posts you have made from the *many* people who think, rightly I might add, that you're full of sh*t.. No numbers, nothing to ever actually back anything up. Just more anti-MS drivel.

...but hey, at least you got my name right this time. I suppose that's a start.

Oh, and if I was 12-13...I'd be in school right now. Though, if they allow the use of MySpace, I suppose BetaNews wouldn't be that much of a stretch. As for personal attacks, I called one person in this forum an idiot. Can I help it if the truth is harsh?

Right on. While I admire Zridling's fight, I'm afraid I'm not gonna join it since I see the cause as lost. DRM is the future. Linux will HAVE to support DRM since the sh*t you bought on Apple/Microsoft/whatever online music/video store will be useless under Linux. So the longer the Linux-camp tries to resist DRM, the slower its adoption by the masses will be. This is the chance to make Linux a hybrid OS - encourages open-source BUT equally encourages DRM'ed music and even DRM'ed software. That's the only way to convince normal, money driven developers to port their app "also" to Linux: you (effectively) GUARANTEE that every install is a paid customer. The dev could charge 1/2 for the Linux version (compared to Windows) if he feels he/his customers are being raped by MS in whichever way. He gets paid either way but gives folks an incentive to switch to Linux (when done on a mass scale - many developers - this will be an insane incentive). This will further push MS's prices down on everything from OS to dev tools...

Agreed 100%.

I bet the real number worldwide is more like 50-60 percent non-genuine.

haha probably, almost everyone I know uses non-genuine windows and office.

That's quite a crowd you hang with, eh?

Pc Tool, Not everyone can afford 299$ for a copy of windows. I bought a new HP PC, which came with a pre-installed copy of winows Xp. No good, because i wanted to dualboot with Mandriva. I still needed a copy of XP for the programs Wine cannot run. Seeing I had basically just paid for a copy of XP with my pc, do you REALLY expect me to pay again? Ps... I'm never going to Vista... and I've been with windows since 3.0.

Go after teh gratuitious theifs, who steal things like Microsoft office and Photoshop, when good and free alternatives exist. (ReactOS doesn't count...

Nice.

SO, because you're not smart enough to call HP and ask for a retail installation instead of an OEM install prior to purchase (or, god forbid, build your own), MS is responsible?

Bull.

You are entitled to nothing more than what you pay for. Want to dual boot? Buy a Retail upgrade.

Otherwise, Tough sh*t.