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AMD's price/performance conundrum: Can it keep its high-end customers?

By Scott M. Fulton, III, BetaNews

March 27, 2008, 6:43 PM

(continued from previous page)

Charting the Intel/AMD battlefield

The situation ahead of AMD is a daunting one, and the best way to get a visual feel of it is by charting it. So using a system I adapted a few years ago for TG Daily, BetaNews used performance data from Tom's Hardware and pricing data from PriceWatch and leading retailers such as Newegg.com, to determine exactly where the price/performance curves for these two multicore CPU producers lie at the moment.

Here's how our chart works: We calculated performance scores for every major CPU in AMD's and Intel's product line, on major benchmark tests in five separate categories: raw calculation (PCMark05), graphics data manipulation (3DMark06 Graphics), compression (WinRAR 3.7 beta 8), audio encoding (iTunes 7.1.1.5) and video encoding (Mainconcept H.264). The scores for every CPU in those tests were gauged against the performance of an old Intel CPU, the single-core Pentium 4 520. For example, AMD's Phenom 9700 scored a 2.33 in the 3DMark06 test, which means it's 233% better than the old P4 520 scored. The old P4 gives us a baseline against which to measure all the multicores.

Then we averaged the five indexes, so that each test represents 20% of the final score. The test results for AMD's new processors aren't yet available, but our current tally helps us to get a clearer picture of how and where AMD needs to distinguish itself.


A price/performance chart for AMD and Intel multicore CPUs, based on March 27, 2008 data.


The chart plots the results as price on the Y axis, performance on the X. The green triangles represent where AMD's processors fall in line; the blue boxes are Intel's. The dotted lines for both are the performance curves, and they don't look so much like curves on this plot because our price axis is on a logarithmic scale. All of AMD's current processors sell below $350; right now, some of Intel's high-end performers sell for over $1,000. But the curves help demonstrate how much of a performance bargain you're getting for your dollar with either brand.

At the far upper right corner is a blue box representing Intel's Core 2 Extreme QX9650. As the two curves approach one another, you can see where the QX9650 (scoring a 3.44 overall and selling for $1,045) is actually quite comparable in terms of performance for the dollar, In other words, the Intel premium over AMD at this point is quite low, even though AMD's highest performer (until today) has been the Phenom 9700 (2.68, $319).

Also, clearly breaking through enemy lines are Intel's Core 2 Duo E8400 (2.69, $199) and E8500 (2.83, $282.31). Ever since its first Conroe-series dual-core introductions in the summer of 2006, Intel appears to have intentionally "floated" one or two CPUs in its midrange, well into AMD territory (two years ago, the Core 2 Duo E6600 was the "floater"). Either model currently gives you better performance for the dollar than any AMD processor; note the sharp price difference between the E8400 and the Phenom 9700 which scores 0.01 lower overall.

As you can see by the tightly-bunched green triangles toward the bottom, there is precious little space for a triple-core CPU to stand out on AMD's price/performance curve. Does AMD risk confusing its customers with this introduction?

AMD's Leslie Sobon with desktop brand manager Simon Solotko"I think that end users know what they want," responded AMD's director of platform marketing Leslie Sobon, "when they either go online to get their system or they walk in the door. And it really depends on how that end user self-defines what they're looking for in a system. For a lot of end users, cores matter...A lot of people want what they perceive as future-proofing. In some respects, I think that's a fair feeling for them to have. They want to buy four cores, they want to future-proof their system, and so they'll go in for that. For others, model number will matter, even though they may not necessarily understand what the model number equates to; many of them walk in and think, the bigger the model number, the better it is -- whether that's true or not.

"Other ones will walk in the door and say, 'I've got $600, $800 to spend. I've got a dollar figure in mind, and I want to get the best performing system I can get...however [that's defined]," Sobon continued.

So there's where the triple-core segment of the market resides right now: with the buyers who aren't preset on four cores, who have a set budget, and who want the best they can get for the dollar. Right now, AMD's Athlon 64 X2 6400+ -- its best performing dual-core -- scores a 2.39 and sells for $179. Meanwhile, its lowest performing quad-core -- and likely to stay lowest after today's product intro -- is the Phenom 9500, scoring 2.52 and selling for $209.

That's 13% of a Pentium 4 520 and $30 of "bandwidth," if you will, on which to establish an entire product line. AMD's new customers had better well know what they want when they walk in the door.

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By Registered

edited Mar 31, 2008 - 11:58 AM

the fact is Ever since AMD pulled the wall over Intel with the P4 situation, Intel has really kicked in to overdrive, over the last 2 years, intel has realized that speed and effiency work hand in hand, the P4 had speed, but it was a bad designed chip from the outset, and all the propaganda from Intel just made the situation worst,

many many loyal people to AMD actually comes from that disaster Intel brought upon themselves, spouting things like, the P4 will reach 10GHz, and that the P4 platform is the future,

well that was just lies, and AMD hit Intel right in the mouth with the Athlon XP, and Intel lost a lot of followers,

but things has changed, and Intel have done what AMD did so well, EFFICIENCY is more important then speed,

Intel has deffiently made there CPU's more efficient, and AMD won't be able to compete with Intel if they attempt to go head to head,

i feel now Intel has sorted there act out, there spending huge amount of resources in R&D, and lets face it, Intel has far more finance at there disposal the AMD,

it kind of reminds me over hear when Energizer came out and hit Duracell hard with there far superior batteries, but within a year Duracell with there hhuge resource came back strong is now superior.

AMD will have to settle for 2nd place, and lets be honest, nothing is wrong with second place, AMD came out after Intel anyway,

the big question is, is there room for 2 CPU companies,

yes!!!! absolutely, because lets face it, it was AMD that got Intel to sort there self out anyway,

with the right tactics and monuvering, AMD can do well and make a lot of money, no one says they have to be 1st,

as long as a company is making money, then who cares about who's the best.

Score: 0

By tscar13

posted Mar 29, 2008 - 9:42 PM

I am surprised that Betanews even knows what conundrum means let alone spell it correctly.

Score: 0

By yourcat

posted Mar 30, 2008 - 9:45 PM

If you don't like BN then go somewhere else.

Score: 0

By tscar13

posted Mar 31, 2008 - 12:48 AM

I'll go anywhere i like but thank you for your insightful comment.

Score: 0

By KRome

posted Mar 28, 2008 - 6:39 PM

i built my system based on a pheom 9500, cheap am2+ mobo and ati hd 3800 card.

Im a seasoned veteran at system building and bought into the spider system. why?

Cost.

Intel can push the limits all they want, the country is in a recession, and people want bang for there buck.

Any jerk can throw money around and build a fast system. The same as with a car.

However, the smart person builds a system with intelligence not with their wallet.

Score: 0

By Galway

posted Mar 29, 2008 - 6:28 PM

Amd is at this stage because of situation rather than choice. They lapped up the market share they gained when Intel was flogging the P4, but even at this point Intel still had a huge market share because there a people who buy them regardless. Now its reversed amd is getting trounced, and would love to have the same share Intel had when it was getting trounced.

Its safe to say AMD has the budget market because they cant sell them any higher.

"However, the smart person builds a system with intelligence not with their wallet."

Its not a dig, but smart people generally have more in their wallet (or purse, I don't want the sexist brigade on my case.)

Score: 0

By Somnambulator

posted Mar 29, 2008 - 1:33 AM

that's why you drop $260 for a Q6600 + good cooler and run it at 3.6ghz with relative ease. even on stock cooling they hit 3.0 ghz and crush AMD.

without considering overclocking, AMD is/was the value king. they have been since the original Athlon, and i've been a loyal AMD customer for 7 years. Intel's bang for the buck really increases dramatically if you spend a few extra bucks and add in some know-how and overclock the Core2's.

since we're discussing high end/low end/best value, overclocking should be considered, though obv not the main concern.

even at stock speeds, Intel's new E8400 chip at around $200 is noticably faster than the Phenom 9700 X4 in single and dual-threaded applications.

i want AMD to pick it up for more than just competition, i like the company and i like/liked ATI as well, but their stuff just isnt holding its own even for the same $ as Intel and nVidia. Some chips and cards are great buys and definitely compete well, like the 5000+ Black Edition for about $90 and the 256 and 512MB 3850's in a mid-low gaming machine. but really besides these few, and maybe 1 or 2 others, Intel and nVidia are faster at the same price points. this includes mid-ranged products.

Score: 0

By Galway

posted Mar 29, 2008 - 6:22 PM

For the gamers this is true, but for the mainstream power user who wants the best performance and doesn't have the know-how or desire to over clock like corp buyers are the bigger market, and the best performance at stock, with the best pricing for multiple purchases normally wins though.

That said, I think your right without this argument, and that Intel is on fire at the moment.

Score: 0

By c4p0ne

posted Mar 28, 2008 - 12:11 PM

What about AMD 790 Chipset + Phenom Quad vs. Intel X38 + Core2Quad?

Score: 0

By Andreas2000

edited Mar 28, 2008 - 6:16 AM

Its worth noting that a 2.6 Ghz AMD quad is slower than a 2.6 Ghz intel quad..

Actually IIRC a non-existing AMD 3.0 Ghz quad = Intel 2.4 Ghz quad.

"Can it keep its high-end customers?"
To answer the question in the topic.. no it can't.. not unless it stats competing again, I switched my 3.0 Ghz AMD dual core to a 3.0 Ghz Intel dual core.. the next upgrade will probably be the Intel 3.0 ghz quad in august.

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

posted Mar 28, 2008 - 9:53 AM

I have to agree that AMD basically cannot keep its high end customers right now. For price/performance I think they have some good things going for them on the low/medium side, but not the high end.

Score: 0

By CyberDoc999

posted Mar 28, 2008 - 4:02 AM

This is a poor comparison by AMD.
the only card AMD has left to play is low cost.
I hope they stay around.

Score: 0

By Second Shadow

posted Mar 27, 2008 - 11:09 PM

Excellent report, Scott
I used to play a lot with these price/performance charts when I was shopping for a new CPU. It's a shame that these charts aren't updated more often at Tom's Hardware or elsewhere.

Score: 0

By evolution76

posted Mar 27, 2008 - 9:58 PM

AMD for life........lol

Score: 0

By Somnambulator

posted Mar 27, 2008 - 7:28 PM

||"For a gamer, we think that the easy way to get performance that matters...is to scale GPUs," Simon Solotko, AMD's desktop brand manager, told BetaNews in a conference with reporters earlier this week.||

i'm not so sure about this. many games want equal parts CPU and GPU, and a few are extreme on one side or another. saying that multi-GPUs is better than a better CPU, even as a generalization, is sketchy at best.

most people see SLI or Crossfire and think it automatically gives outstanding gaming performance, when in reality multi-GPU setups (not counting the budget-oriented hybrid Crossfire debuting soon) are only best exploited with outstanding CPUs.

also, many multi-gpu scenerios for budget, mainstream, and mid-high end buyers are actually less cost-effective than buying a single, more powerful card. SLI/XF, in practice, is only cost effective when cost isnt a factor! why buy 2 $180 3870s or 8800GTs when 1 $350 8800GTX is about the same speed (and a 1.5-2 year old card! wait until it's price point 9000-Series replacement comes out). not only is there little performance or cost benefit in most cases to go SLI or Crossfire, but they also require relatively more expensive motherboards (for multi-gpu support) and power supplies to power 2 or more cards.

when you get down to the real world, SLI and Crossfire only truely benefits those people dropping $600-1400 for graphics alone, since it gives them 2 (or more) of the top single card performers and reaches a level of performance ONLY reachable with multiple cards.

/rant

Score: 0

By crashoverride

posted Mar 29, 2008 - 1:31 AM

It is my opinion that the GPUs are progressing too rapidly for SLI/XF to be effective or practical for anyone but those that will drop $3000 or more for a gaming rig without flinching.

Score: 0