"It's misleading to advertise "fastest" connection speeds and "unlimited" traffic/usage when certain traffic is throttled. What pisses me off is not the connection throttling, which they technically have a right to do, but the fact that they're lying about it."

Isn't this called FALSE Advertising? We already have laws against this fraudulent crap. ENFORCE them dammit...

It's only false advertising if his assumptions are true...which they aren't.

They tell you it's the max speeds, or "up to", and they are not referring to traffic when they mention "unlimited".

Of course, all most folks hear is "10Mbit" and "unlimited", but that is because they are commercials...and who pays *full* attention to those?

They count on that lack of attention to detail. It sucks, but it doesn't make it their fault the majority of folks don't pay attention.

Comcast is doing what every other service provider is trying to do; cram in as many users as they possible can, without having to spend millions on upgrading their network infrastructure to support more users. Yes, the popularity of P2P applications is a real problem (some research shows as much as 80% of all internet traffic is from P2P transfers), but throttling those services is not the solution. P2P is here to stay and companies pulling these tricks are only going to alienate their customers in the end.

It's misleading to advertise "fastest" connection speeds and "unlimited" traffic/usage when certain traffic is throttled. What pisses me off is not the connection throttling, which they technically have a right to do, but the fact that they're lying about it. They said they weren't doing it, but then they got caught doing it, yet they STILL deny they did anything wrong.

Of course it sounds much more appealing to potential subscribers when they see ads claiming "fastest" connection speeds and "unlimited" traffic, without the added "except for P2P traffic, which we will be throttling."

It's irrelevant whether the P2P traffic is legal or illegal content. Comcast should be forced to tell their customers about the throttling, otherwise their claims of internet service is false advertising.

It's misleading to advertise "fastest" connection speeds and "unlimited" traffic/usage when certain traffic is throttled.

It's only misleading because you're not paying attention (which, admittedly, is a fact they count on).

Pay attention the next time you see one of those adverts. I *guarantee* there is some mention of the speeds being "max" or "up to". As for "unlimited", I doubt they are referring to usage. Most adverts I have seen are talking about unlimited access as oppposed to Dial-Up's On-Demand access.

It's all in how it's worded and the fact that the vast majority of viewers isn't paying complete attention to their ads.

While they are *expecting* you to not pay attention, it's not their fault that you aren't.

Comcast should be forced to tell their customers about the throttling,

ToS, man. ToS.

Customers need to be told what they are paying for. AUP policies can not be changed like changing a CEO. Credit card companies have also done this and lost huge class action suites because of it.

So far the way this looks.. Is comcast did something and as called on it. Now they are trying to cover it up and on the side saying it's standard to do it.

P2P is NOT illegal to use! Pirating copyrighted material is. IS COMCAST a law enforcement agency and should they be trying to enforce the law??

IS COMCAST a law enforcement agency and should they be trying to enforce the law??

They never said anything about laws.

This is Comcast trying to keep their network from being seriously degraded by an atypical use of an exceptional amount of bandwidth.

They've never once claimed to be doing this in an effort to enforce any laws whatsoever.

Some uploads are blocked, downloads are not.
Heh.
Ignoring the paradox, it has been proven that
both parties are told "never mind" by Comcast
software.
If the software only told the up loader never
mind....

But I suspect that doesn't matter-if they can't
manage network thruput that way they'll just
start TOS'ing users for running a server on the
connection--reason they haven't is that costs
'em subscribers.

Internet: Now as important as water....

Nothing like totally distorted perspectives to ruin a good discussion, hmmmm?

I bet the ISP companies just *love* you people. They've got you brainwashed but good.

Bullcrap. They block uploads on bit torrent clients under a number of configurations. Their sandvine software sends a fake reset packet which forges a disconnect at the client or other side of the connection or both.

Torrents I tried to upload were never "delayed" or "slowed down"...they came to a screeching halt!!! I would understand if they throttled the connection a little bit for short periods of time. If they delay it, that implies that the connection comes back or speeds back up. That never happened.

I hate comcast. I would vote with my money in a heart beat if there was ANY other reasonable high speed provider in my area. I had been paying for their "premium" internet service...I canceled that crap and went back down to their basic one when they started blocking connections.

If you have a legitimate need for BT, get a business line.

Problem solved.

Why should anyone have to pay more for a something that I can easily get for less??? Downloading a Linux distro (which come out relatively often) is a legit use, should I pay ~$100/month for that?

Why should anyone have to pay more for a something that I can easily get for less???

But you can't easily get it for less, can you?

Oh, wait...you can:

Use a direct-link mirror. I know for a *fact* the major distributions have a ton of mirrors at educational facilities around the world.

Order the CD. Most distros also offer to ship you the cd, many of them free of charge, many without shipping costs.

BT is no longer an option in many cases, like it or not. They are (for the time being) within their rights to deny it in the interests of network management.

I'm with you that it sucks. In fact, I believe the whole gang of them need to rethink their pricing and Service Levels from the ground up. But as it stands, BT, for the most part, is out unless you have a business line.

Where does Comcast say this? No where in any TOS does it say which applications i can and can not use. And rightfully so. I am paying for a connection to the internet. If i am paying for a connection that is 6Mb/1Mb, Comcast should not care what applications i am running, just that i am a paying customer.

If Comcast can dicatate which applications you can use, good bye Apple TV, Joost, M$ XBox Live IPTV, PS3 Video Content, etc... Who knows what will be next.

No where in any TOS does it say which applications i can and can not use.

Do you actually read the crap you comment on, or do you always just spew BS about stuff you know *nothing* about? If you had actually *read* their ToS, you would know better.

Every ISP states, in their ToS, that you are not allowed to use services that adversely affect overall network performance.

But I guess it's *their* fault you can't read, right?

BTW: BT is *not* an application. It's a protocol, genius.

Actually i do, and unlike you, i am educated and can comprehend English. Me surfing the web impacts network performance. Me doing _anything_ on the web impacts network performance. You would understand that if you knew anything about what you are commenting on.

Your trolls keep me entertained. I love making you look like a total fool over and over again.

BTW: "BTW: BT is *not* an application. It's a protocol, genius." Can you read english? Where did i say Bit Torrent is an Application? You love making stuff up.

Where did i say Bit Torrent is an Application? You love making stuff up.

Funny that. The topic is about an FCC investigation into Comcast for forging reset packets in BT traffic.

The comment you replied to *specifically* mentioned BT.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt, assuming you were confused, but apparently you simply had no idea what we were talking about.

Do you often just jump in the middle of discussions and spew off-topic drivel?

Oh...right, that's pretty much *all* you do.

Me surfing the web impacts network performance.Me doing _anything_ on the web impacts network performance. You would understand that if you knew anything about what you are commenting on.

Thanks for the info, Cap't. Obvious. Care to explain how they affect the network adversely?

Didn't think so. Is it really that hard for you to stay on topic and actually post anything relevant?

again, no where in my post did i say Bit Torrent is an application. Glad you confirmed it.

Are saying surfing the web does not use any bandwidth? Me browsing YouTube is taking bandwidth away from my neighbors.

This is asinine. If you are going to reply to a comment regarding Comcast blocking BitTorrent, in a topic about Comcast blocking BitTorrent, at least show *some* effort in trying to stay on topic (which would be Comcast blocking BitTorrent...)

We're not talking about applications, they aren't blocking applications. They are blocking certain types of traffic that affects more than one application.

This traffic is atypical and adversely affects the entire network. Their ToS allows them to limit or purposefully degrade *any* service or protocol (or even application, jackass) that does such. This is the second time you've completely missed the point of the entire topic.

Troll somewhere else.

" Comcast "does not block any Web site, application, or Web protocol," Cohen said at the outset of the hearing.

... in which requests for file uploads -- but not downloads -- are "delayed" yet not "blocked," ..."

Why are they even allowed to say that??? Sending TCP RST's is blocking / DoS. What is the use of such hearings if people are allowed to lie?

What defines lying differs by culture.

The US have as many lawyers as the rest of the world combined.

No relation between those two statements of course...

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The comments section is not a classifieds section to advertise your product or service.

Stupid spammer, go DIAF.

There's an acronym you don't see every day.

Die In A Fire?

Didn't say I didn't know what it meant, but thanks anyway.

I was skeptical at first when I heard about the FCC having hearings on this matter, however with these recent developments it seems the FCC may indeed do some good for the customers of Comcast. I'm not a supporter of regulatory control in many areas of the economy, but I do believe that ISP's are getting to ambitious with their networks. The only reason the internet exists as it does today is because networks are open and free regardless of the protocol used. If Comcast or any other provider inhibits even one packet in any way it threatens the very core of what the internet stands for.

The only real resolution to this problem is for ISP's to be granted the ability to manage their networks with the exception of blocking, or delaying packets. I hope the FCC also explores Advacned Traffic Shaping practices that are starting to become popular as well.

I agree. National ISPs differ from other businesses in that they CONTROL infrastructure - and thus have a self-governed monopoly. When you have private companies who own national infrastructure (water, electricity, telecommunications, etc) they MUST be regulated to assure they do not abuse access to that infrastructure. Competition cannot regulate pricing or services because it is not practical or feasible for any competitor to build the infrastructure to compete.

I'm not sure why so many people struggle with that concept - it's fairly simple. Private control of infrastructure MUST be regulated. Could you imagine if there was no regulation on your water? If the water company started pumping sub-standard water through your taps - what can you do? Buy bottled water to shower in? :p

I'm not sure why so many people struggle with that concept - it's fairly simple. Private control of infrastructure MUST be regulated. Could you imagine if there was no regulation on your water? If the water company started pumping sub-standard water through your taps - what can you do? Buy bottled water to shower in?

??

We need water to survive. How do you imply we need internet to do the same?

Sure, *businesses* need it. But this whole b**** deals with *consumer* access.

Hate to break it to ya, but consumers don't *need* cable internet, no matter how badly they want it.

"Hate to break it to ya, but consumers don't *need* cable internet, no matter how badly they want it."

Wow. You are naive. I am a consumer. I need internet access to run my home based business, shop for parts, and as a consumer I *NEED* the internet to buy about 50% of my monthly goods / services.

I save time by paying bills online. My time is valuable whether I am spending it with my family or working on a web development project that rakes in a few thousand dollars a year.

I save a TON of money buying things online. Our local stores have a horrendous markup on goods and horrible selection. How about you tell my son that his father doesn't need to internet to find out which car seats are the safest.

That brings me to research: Sure, I could have gone to the local "BestBuy" to get a satellite radio... and it would have cost me $200 more than buying radio and accessories online. You tell me I don't need to save money? Wow! I don't know what to say to such blinding ignorance.

I have caught 3 separate cases where my credit card info had been stolen and used fraudulently online. If I had waited the weeks for a paper bill to arrive instead of monitoring my credit card history online the crooks would have stolen even more money. 1 Credit card number got stolen at walmart. There was a huge scandal in this town where Sams and Walmart had a huge batch of customers that had their credit card info stollen. I was one of them. 1 Credit card number got stollen while I was out of town. It had to have happened at a restaurant or other place where the crook(s) had physical access to the card for a short period of time. The third time it happened I have no idea how they got it...possibly a website that was compromised because I shop online a lot. Shopping online has been just as safe as shopping in person.

So tell me again, pc_*TOOL*, how I don't need cable internet? I don't have time to waste waiting for a slow internet connection. Cable internet saves me money each month in terms of time, productivity, and it helps me produce some extra income so I can afford "extras" like satellite radio.

I do have time to try and enlighten someone and perhaps someone else won't be swayed by your unfounded assertion that consumers don't need cable internet. If something else high speed was available at all locations I would be inclined to agree with you on a very small part of what you said, but since cable is the only thing available in many places, you are way off base.

From PC_Tool
Sure, *businesses* need it. But this whole b**** deals with *consumer* access.

From quarky42
Wow. You are naive. I am a consumer. I need internet access to run my home based business, shop for parts, and as a consumer I *NEED* the internet to buy about 50% of my monthly goods / services.

Need I say more?

I suppose I do:

I don't have time to waste waiting for a slow internet connection. Cable internet saves me money each month in terms of time, productivity, and it helps me produce some extra income so I can afford "extras" like satellite radio.

So it's a convenience. You must be confusing "convenience" with "necessity". Common mistake amongst the entitled masses.

Want!=need.

How about you tell my son that his father doesn't need to internet to find out which car seats are the safest.

*laughs*

Play the emotion card. Brilliant.

There's this monthly magazine called Consumer Reports. Get it. Costs a hell of a of a lot less then an internet connection.

You must be confusing "convenience" with "necessity". Common mistake amongst the entitled masses

OK i got one for ya.

I need an internet connection to validate my windows;)

No. You don't.

Call 'em and enter the code they give you.

Pretty simple, actually. I've done it myself, though due to firewall issues, not lack of internet access.

You're also, by that statement, apparently assuming Windows (even a computer) are consumer necessities. My grandparents would be interested in hearing that one.

You're also, by that statement, apparently assuming Windows (even a computer) are consumer necessities. My grandparents would be interested in hearing that one.

I can counter that one one with by not having a computer therefore not having experience using a computer in this day and age can be a bad thing.

For example if a company is hiring and working around a computer is part of the job(more and more jobs are getting like this) who is going to get hired a person that hasn't been around computers and requires more training or someone who has been around computers and would require less training and more training costs more money.

PC_Tool i was joking on my first comment i know you could phone them (it would be cool if everyone called in to activate windows then maybe Microsoft would finaly get rid having to activate windows thou i've never had a problem just rather be doing other stuff instead)

For example if a company is hiring and working around a computer is part of the job(more and more jobs are getting like this) who is going to get hired a person that hasn't been around computers and requires more training or someone who has been around computers and would require less training and more training costs more money.

We have these things called schools...

PC_Tool i was joking on my first comment

I know. I was just sayin'... (For those who might have taken you seriously...)

We have these things called schools

Depending on when you went to school when i was in school there were no computer classes in grade school and very limited in high school.

I have learned way more about using a computer after i was done school than i ever did while in school.

Needless to say it was a while ago.

Say it with me:

Community College.

Actualy you would be surprised at some of the jobs out there that require working around computers.

Look at some of your local restaurants they may write your order down but then disapear and card in and enter everything into the computer so my point of not having a computer putting people at a disadvantage still stands and whos going to go to community collage just to waiter/waitress.

Even job hunting is starting to require internet i know a few places that don't bother advertising in the local paper any more and just list on the online job sites.

then disapear and card in and enter everything into the computer so my point of not having a computer putting people at a disadvantage still stands and whos going to go to community collage just to waiter/waitress.

These are POS systems. Yes, they are computers, but not the kind you and I use on a daily basis. (Okay, *some* of them are, but they boot directly into the OS and load the POS software)

Point being, no PC experience required. They are trained how to "card in" and key in orders.

Even job hunting is starting to require internet i know a few places that don't bother advertising in the local paper any more and just list on the online job sites.

I know at least in my area, those same "online" job listings (at least the local ones) are mirrored in weekly supplements you can pick up at the local stores.

Regardless, that's a convenience issue, not a need. You can still get jobs without being online. Nothing beats showing up and asking. :)

Point being, no PC experience required. They are trained how to "card in" and key in orders.

That falls back under my comment earlier about people without computers requiring more training. While most of us would learn it realy quickly i do know people who would struggle a bit.

I know at least in my area, those same "online" job listings (at least the local ones) are mirrored in weekly supplements you can pick up at the local stores.

Never seen any supplements around here.

Nothing beats showing up and asking. :)

Agreed the ones i hate are the ones that just phone everywhere asking if they are hiring(i always tell them no since if they can't bother to get off the couch to find a job they are most likely lazy and i already have enough lazy people to work with)

the ones i hate are the ones that just phone everywhere asking if they are hiring

I knew we'd eventually agree on something. :P

While most of us would learn it realy quickly i do know people who would struggle a bit.

This applies to anyone and anything, not just computers. :p Of course training on one subject helps in related subjects. But when we're arguing that "internet is or is not as important as water", it really doesn't apply.