Gotta love their new logo ;)
http://thepiratebay.org/

Pirate Bay is back hehe

http://85.17.40.35/

ugh the authorites should quit complaining...no matter how many places they bust there will always be a torrent site, so they should worry more about pedophiles and drug dealers.

Can't win so they should stop fighting?

Yeah, let's apply that same model of thinking elsewhere, shall we?

Salvery.
Sufferage.
Birth of the US (Founding Fathers)

Sorry. Doesn't, and shouldn't, work that way.

GOOD.

That's about it.

...

"they are ALREADY in the process of moving
their hardware to a new location, in a
different country, and expect to be back in
days"

...

Yeah, back in jail !
...

The Computer Rodent

...

Hey, the computer rodent should be happy! Because for a limited time, and only for the computer rodent, tbp is offering 'coupons' for a wide variety of their services, redeem today! =p

http://ciole.net/quake3/bay.jpg

http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=1204

Apparently, they are ALREADY in the process of moving their hardware to a new location, in a different country, and expect to be back in days. :p

What's up! There will be a beginning, someday, when economy become extinct, everything's free, bye bye oikos, bye bye nomos. The Pirate Bay just a model, a pioneer, an attempt towards economy free community, still far from perfect, still hard to believe with common sense, off course. Many things behind them..millions of things.

http://spaces.msn.com/denverdrift/

If I had all the things I require - I would work for free.

In fact I do a lot of free work as it is.

---

Either singers are paid a huge amount, amase millions - and what do they do with it - just how many homes does a person need???
OR
The record label makes a huge amount, hundreds of times their investment.

Actors and actresses being paid $10,000,000+ for a film(!) - when they are only in front of the camera for (maybe) 10 hours over 3 weeks.

---

Why is it that a nurse, doctor, firefighter, teacher ... only gets paid ~$100,000

Typical rationale for piracy if I've ever seen it.

They have enough money anyway/they over-charge for it.

They have money because honest people buy their products or pay to see their movies. They "over-charge" because people are willing to pay what they charge. Simple economics. You don't get to decide what something should cost. The owner of the product or content does.

I'm glad you'll work for free. You're a rare individual. But it does not imply anyone else must, or even that they *should* if they had the resources.

What they make, or what they charge does nothing to excuse piracy.

No offense, but neither does what you, a doctor, or a nurse make.

Oh goodie.

Another "Freedom Fighter".

You guys are fun. Protecting the masses from having to earn or actually do anything to deserve the things they want.

There will be a beginning, someday, when economy become extinct,

I hate to break it to ya, but Star Trek is fiction, man. It's fake. I know, I know...you really wanted to marry Deanna Troy, but I'm sure , after years of therapy, you'll get over the shock and live a nice long life in your mom's basement.

I was NOT defending piracy

I'd rather be in your mom's basement actually, if she's free too and if she's still good enough though..(sorry, you brought "mom" word first).
What do you know about Star Trek, PC guy? It is fiction, stupid kids know that. But anyway, I commented the first place to put my side on TPB. Star Trek analogy just one reason out of million other things on this earth, because we are all unique on how we think of something. My mind is very free.

I'd rather be in your mom's basement actually

Your mom kick ya out? Gotta suck to be you man.

What do I know about StarTrek? Not much. Had better things to do. ;)

Good. You better have one. Learn more about respecting other's opinion, and learn not being a jerk. Don't talk too much about something if you don't know much about something. LOL.
My mom did kick me out, is you mom still free and available? I'd like to try her.
(again you started the "mom" word first, and it sounded like teenager arguing).

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....

It's about time they were taken down. It's sites like that that give BitTorrent a bad name. Maybe this will help the standard take off as at least a *mostly* legitimate technology now.

"It's about time they were taken down."

why?
you think tracker sites should screen their users for content?
maybe you think the telephone company should screen you phone calls for illegal activity too?
maybe we should shut the phone companies down right now, because we all know there's illegal activites being set up over the phone all the time.

you think tracker sites should screen their users for content?

If they want to be able to operate legally, yes. Running a tracker isn't forced on them. Should they *choose* to do so, they should at *least* do ti responsibly and avoid giving the entire technology a bad name.

maybe you think the telephone company should screen you phone calls for illegal activity too?

Joining a tracker is not a necessity, and no anonymity or privacy laws apply. The comparison is absurd.

maybe we should shut the phone companies down right now, because we all know there's illegal activites being set up over the phone all the time.

...and for all we know, you're a crack-dealer. But since we *don't* know, there ain't much we can do about it.

We *do* know TPB linked warez.

Your comparisons are getting pretty bad. Stretching a bit?

Technically speaking, the telephone is not a necessity either. It is a luxury that people lived without for thousands of years. I see people using cell phones and beepers to arrange various things, and I don't see Varizon or Sprint keeping tabs on those.

lmao.

Okay. Can we *try* and keep things in perspective here?

They are *far* more necessary than a torrent tracker, or membership to one.

and why exactly is a telephone a necessity?
i'm pretty sure you could live just fine without one

i think you're loosing the perspective
just because something is used for the wrong purposes, doesn't make it in of itself wrong

tracker sites should not be resonsible for its users activities
just as no other company i can think of is responsible for what the buyer does with their product

the local justice is just looking for the easiest way to deal with the problem, without considering the rights of the honest citizens
if none of the people who ran piratebay were sharing copyrighted meterial themselves, they should not be charged with a crime.

would you like another analogy?

cab companies
not exactly a necissary service
but we know for a fact that drug dealers, murderers and rapists use them quite often to retain their anonimity
should they screen all their costomers about their identity and their business of the day, just to make sure they're not harboring a criminal
or maybe we should charge the cab driver for accesorizing if found to have taken the criminal to the place of crime

seems like a far fetched example, but they are both services, provided by everyday people, who aren't doing anything illegal themselves

just think you should broaden your perspective a little.
i still don't think piratebay did anything criminal (as long as they didn't archive any copyrighted meterial), they just provided a very LEGAL service that gets abused by criminals

Guns are a good example. A person goes into Wal-Mart, buys a pistol, waits the 3 days or whatever the time limit is these days. Goes home and shoots his wife. Does that make Wal-Mart guilty of helping him with the murder since they sold him the gun?

Or what about the provider that sold TPB the banwidth? Are they guilty since it was going through their lines? Or maybe the company that sells the banwidth to the provider? Or Dell for selling them the servers? Or I know, Microsoft for selling them the server program that's installed on the servers! It's their fault! It's always Microsofts fault!

just because something is used for the wrong purposes, doesn't make it in of itself wrong

Excatly right. BT is a useful technology. To bas sites such as TPB give it such a horrible stigma.

tracker sites should not be resonsible for its users activities

BS. They control the tracker, it resides on their hardware. They don't sell a product, they offer a service and are responsible for it.

the local justice is just looking for the easiest way to deal with the problem, without considering the rights of the honest citizens

Since when did we have a right to offer links to illegal materials? Don't see that listed in the Bill.

if none of the people who ran piratebay were sharing copyrighted meterial themselves, they should not be charged with a crime.

That's a cop-out and you know it, whether you care to admit it or not. They provide quick and easy access to copyrighted material, admit it, flaunt it, and do nothing to try and legitimize ther "service".

If they truely wanted to offer a legitimate service, there are *plenty* of ways to limit what can and cannot be posted to your tracker. I have run a few, I would know.

but we know for a fact that drug dealers, murderers and rapists use them quite often to retain their anonimity

Is 90% of their traffic these rapists, drug- dealers and murderers?

No?

You are deluding yourself. Ones' just a *tad* more far-fetched than the other, eh?

i still don't think piratebay did anything criminal (as long as they didn't archive any copyrighted meterial), they just provided a very LEGAL service that gets abused by criminals

The primary use of it was to further the violations of copyright. That is 100% controllable and they chose not to do so.

just think you should broaden your perspective a little.

My perspective is just fine, however, it's my logic and common sense that play the biggest role in my feelings regarding TPB.

Guns are a good example.

Uh.. No, they're not.

A person goes into Wal-Mart, buys a pistol, waits the 3 days or whatever the time limit is these days. Goes home and shoots his wife. Does that make Wal-Mart guilty of helping him with the murder since they sold him the gun?

What percentage of folks go to wal-mart to buy a gun and kill someone?

What percentage of folks go to TPB to download copyrighted material?

BIG difference.

Or what about the provider that sold TPB the banwidth? Are they guilty since it was going through their lines? Or maybe the company that sells the banwidth to the provider? Or Dell for selling them the servers? Or I know, Microsoft for selling them the server program that's installed on the servers! It's their fault! It's always Microsofts fault!

Same deal, repeated over and over. 90% of the ISPs traffic is very likely legit, same with the bandwidth provider, Dell, and MS.

When dealing with liability, it rests on eht eones *most* responsible. Care to take a wild guess who that might be?

Jesus, people, please..try and think before posting.

You know, I've seen you post many many times. Do you EVER agree with anyone? LOL

Its not a matter of how much is legit. Are you saying there is some percentage that is acceptable then?

Another example: There are plenty of sites out there they describe how to build a bomb. Does that make them liable if someone uses those directions? NO. The same thing happens on a torrent site. The torrent themselves are NOT illegal. They are directions on "where" to get the legal and illegal files. THATS IT!

You know, I've seen you post many many times. Do you EVER agree with anyone? LOL

frequently, but posting "I agree" seems kinda pointless, doesn't it? It's not like we're going for highest post-count here.

Its not a matter of how much is legit. Are you saying there is some percentage that is acceptable then?

How is it *not* a matter of legitimacy? If they can claim, with *any* confidence at all thet they at least *tried* to combat the illegitimate uses of their service, they might have a leg to stand on. But they did not, in fact, they flaunted it.

he torrent themselves are NOT illegal.

I don't know where you got that idea. Linking to warez has *always* been illegal. .torrent files are merely links, just using an alternative network.

There are plenty of sites out there they describe how to build a bomb. Does that make them liable if someone uses those directions? NO.

You are correct. But there is scientific value to such sites, and they are protected by free speech. They do *not* link to copyrighted material. If they did, they would be shut down. It's a no-brainer.

TPB has no redeeming value, freedom of speech does not protect one's right to link to warez.

I believe you already enlisted yourself in Cyber Crime Task Force or something, you sound smart. Too bad TBP isn't the only one out there, it might be the biggest, but still many out there. How are we going to shut them all?

Why do we need to?

So long as there are bigger one's out there that are legit, the little ones that aren't don't matter at all.

They're up now.

Just curious on peoples thoughts on the take down of all the other legit servers when the attempted to stop TPB? close to 300 I was reading. Whatever TPB did surely this was unwarrented.

Makes me want to run out, register ThePirateBay2.org, and allow downloads straight from my own servers for nothing but open-source software with open licensing, and independent movies that are openly licensed as well. I wonder who will come knocking at my door???...

Before CD's and DVD's there wasn't really any focus on piracy. You hear about it but nobody ever gave a damn not even the RIAA and MPAA if they even existed back then. But who decided to go digital??? Oh, I know the same people now complaining about piracy. No one can tell me that they didn't know this would happen. They just wanted to cut cost by going digital and make more money. And believe me it had nothing to do with the quality of the product. So if you ask me I say they're the ones that started it. And then to make it even easier, behold the blank CD's and DVD's. That's like handing out crack pipes to junkies.

You have a point there, they opened pandoras box. If they wanted to make sure people wouldn't copy stuff then they shouldn't have made blank disks that were compatable with home and car stereo and dvd units. They could have made disks that were only made for computers and didn't work on home and car units. I bet they'll do the same thing with Blue Ray and HD-DVD and when people break the encryption they'll cry about it. They must have known if they make the blank media thats compatible with home and car units that people are going to copy. Maybe they just wanted a reason to sue people so they can make more money? Maybe this was all part of their plan? I doubt it, that would be pretty messed up.

Now if I were to make the first CD and DVD player, I would then make blank media that if you copied a CD or DVD it would only work on your computer. Now at this point though people are putting computer in their car and using them as media centers with their TV's but its less of a % of people. Maybe in another 5 years or so people will be using them more often in this manner, but all these years piracy would have been down and the companies would have had time to think of ways to stop or lessen it in those circumstances. You have to stay ahead of who your selling to and now their ahead of the companies who built the technology in some cases.

I agree 100%

“That's like handing out crack pipes to junkies” LMAO

the recording industry didnt make vcr's, they didnt make cd/dvd burners and they didnt make the blank media, or make it compatible with home units, the hardware corperations made them and it was perfectly legal and sensible to do it, just because it is there doesnt mean you have to do something illegal with it. just because someone invented guns doesnt mean you have to go out and kill someone with them. all the recording industry did was adopt something that was already out there. of course prices and their crap agreements are unfair, but does that justify copyright infringement? no, it justifies boycotts and protests and legal action, notice i didnt say stealing or pirating or theft, as it isnt any of those. piracy is a word that was adopted by the riaa cause it sounds worse.

A friend of mine said this "P2P networks are like whack-a-mole. Hit one and another will pop up with better security and annonymity."

Those legal threat retorts were funny as all get out too, I should archive.org the site and save those.

Those legal threat retorts were funny as all get out too, I should archive.org the site and save those.

definately.

Those legal threat retorts were funny as all get out too

lol. Absolutely.

We can find crack, warez, music etc... by using google, yahoo, msn, *searching* . So better take down them too.

I'm pretty sure that if you're a software developer, and you type in google "mysoftware crack" and it finds a working crack to it, you can give Google a call and get that site un-indexed. Same as if the same developer typed "fullname-of-my-10-year-old-daughter naked pictures" and found them there...

It's another sad day in the world. Yeah sure what pirate bay did was wrong. But how many of us really cared. We wanted free stuff no matter what. guess i have to find another favorite torrent site.

This article makes me shake my head in consternation. This whole approach to piracy is backward and contrary to human nature. While I understand that sharing copyrighted material is illegal, I think the RIAA and MPAA are missing something in their response strategy. They assume that people who download pirated material are potential customers who would buy from them if the material wasn't available. This assumption is flawed because a decent percentage of downloaders lack the tangible assets to be converted into a paying customer. Some are kids, college students, or people with low incomes. Another percentage of this population makes it a policy to avoid paying for things. Finally, there are the thrill-seekers who swop files because it's against the rules. Getting the legal system to go after these people will not improve their financial bottom line very much. Rather than focusing on pleasing its existing customer base and recruiting new customers, corporations are spending a lot of their time, press coverage, and money trying to stop file sharing. Meanwhile, their anti-piracy efforts are causing problems for their paying customers, and that's usually bad for business.

If they were smart, they'd see the built in advantages of these populations and use them as part of their marketing efforts. They're so worried about losing a dime that they're overlooking the chance to make a dollar. Microsoft is starting to get the message. Let's see if the RIAA can get their brains in gear. I'm not holding my breath. :(

They assume that people who download pirated material are potential customers who would buy from them if the material wasn't available ...

Can someone please explain this to me. (and I'm sure someone will). If piracy is such a big problem then why do both music and movie industry have record profits the last couple of years? Shouldn't their profits be going down instead of up???

Actually, i think they JUST finally starting levelign off or going down by a slight amount. This despite the huge increase int he video game market, which is a direct competitor for movies and music...

Actually they're still doing pretty damn good. Not to long ago I read an article on the this subject. It said that in the last 5 years the the movie and the record companies have seen record profits. This despite producing mediocre to bad movies and music albums. And I would have to agree, it's been quit some time that I've seen a really good movie. So that means that with all this piracy they say is going on, it isn't really affecting their sales.

Not sure abt music. But for movies, they have a new "theory" for their slight increase in wealth: price hike of movie tickets.

Better yet; why does a RIAA member company provide use with the hardware and blank discs, so we can make illegal copies of their own CDs and DVDs? Thieves can rip off their competitors too. What's next? Your crooked police chief sells the best weed in town after work? Nobody cares!

Ever notice how 99% of these radio and TV news reports sound like a press release from the RIAA/MPAA lobbyists. Educated idiot reporters never question anything they say...

Good thought, but that contradicts or is *at least* offset by the fact that there has been a declining trend in the raw number of people frequenting movie theaters...

I wouldn't be surprised to find that the RIAA is running some of these sharing sites in order to generate press coverage and justify raising prices and planting software on their customers' computers. Once that is achieved, they can go back to business as usual, being in complete control of their music from the store to our ears.

Yeah, that's because the movies they put out these days are crap. And nobody want to spend $50 to $75 to watch a $hity movie. That's right a date to the movies will set you back almost $100.

are you an idiot? the riaa didnt make invent, market or otherwise create the hardware and/or media that can be used for copyright infringment. matter of fact they opposed it with all thier legal might. must i also remind you of how they acted when vcr's and blank vhs tapes came out? they tried to yank them off the market, same thing for cd's.

Just as a shop selling a knife is NOT responsible for how that knife is used...

...how can a site that simply INDEX files, be held responsible for what those files are???

It would be like Google being held responsible for the contents of every website in its index.

Or a phone company being held resposible for the actions of every person who has a phone.

Or a government being held responsible for the action of its citizens.

hmmm well you get the idea :-)

The US Supreme Court used the same kind of warped logic before. They dropped the hammer on P2P services which DON'T host illegal MP-3 files for download. It's NAPSTER's fault because people downloded music from other third parties.

Let's blame the Marlboro man because some idiot ignored WARNING labels on the package, smoked cigarettes for 30+ years and died of lung cancer. A widow in Oregon just got 80 million out of them

On the other hand, the cell phone companies are NOT responsible, for customers, who use their services to commit a crime - including murder!

This only proves that the US Congress is a Parliament of wh0res. Lobbyists pay a fortune to have federal laws written to suit themselves. Never mind that they're inconsistent in the approach to solving a problem...

It's a scare tactic to find a way to rip the IPs off of the P2P servers for it's users, and then go after the users for the 'losses' the industries have taken.

A dynamic IP address is like a public phone box.

Even if they do get a list of IP addresses, they also need a list of when exactly those IP addresses where used.

uhh, yeah it was napsters fault. They actually STORED the mp3s on their servers.

It should not be illegal to run a bittorrent tracker such as thepiratebay.org, think about all of the free and opensource companies out there who want to get their work out there and would otherwise be hit with huge bandwidth bills. Thepiratebay.org was very useful for downloading iso's for linux distros such as SuSE when their FTP servers ground to a halt. Just because they provided access to copyrighted material does not constitute llegal or harmful activity in my opinion. Btw many canadian artists have spoken out in support of this sort of thing check out the news on the front page of isohunt.com

I agree.

The BitTorrent system is NOT illegal.
The BitTorrent trackers are NOT illegal.

The copying of copyright material without the copyright owners consent ... thats illegal.

*sigh*

At least someone gets it.

Much agreed. It's not the system used, it's the person using it.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Agreed.

Although you have to admit, PirateBay was in business for just that. I mean come on, look at their name...

They openly and purposefully encouraged and facilitated piracy. That's what got them burned.

"They openly and purposefully encouraged and facilitated piracy. That's what got them burned. "

But that isn't illegal.

No, but doing nothing while 90+ percent of the traffac on their "service" is illegal... IS.

:) Pretty simple stuff, when you think about it.

Ummm...regardless of how you feel about the cost of movies/music/software/etc and the tactics of RIAA/MPAA/BSA/etc. there has never been any ambiguity about blatant piracy being illegal.

And here comes a site which CALLS ITSELF "THE PIRATE BAY"! Can you imagine a crack house with a big neon signs on the roof blinking "CRACK HOUSE"?

They should be locked up for sheer stupidity. Don't even try to argue satirical or facetious usage; these folks were as brazen as it gets.

Lets not forget, Napster.. they were allowed to continue for a time *IF* they could filter out certain types of content.. well they couldn't satisfy the authorities enough to PROVE they could keep people from attaining illegal software, thus they were shut down.

"Although The Pirate Bay...hosts no copyrighted material itself, it plays a central role in facilitating the searching for and downloading of such content. Its operators have openly mocked and taunted those who threaten it with legal action...

On Wednesday morning, Sweden's Antipiratbyrån anti-piracy organization and the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) apparently had enough."

Maybe the next doofus that decides to taunt any regulatory commission or anti-monopoly agency or whatever may think twice before doing it again. This is not RIAA/MPAA people, this is a much more clear-cut issue when it comes to international law.

did you ever go to the site and read the letters?
they were funny. :-)

highly amusing stuff.

I hope they keep those around, even if they go down.

Many of the responses were hillarious.

yup. I went back and read them a couple times when I needed a laugh.

High quality stuff.

when I needed a laugh.

I though that was when you read *my* comments. ;'(

I was just thinking yesterday that the pirate bay was so popular it was going to be the next to go down...

In that case do us all a favor and stop thinking.

Yeah, sure you did.. karnac .. sure you did.. you watch too much Oprah.

i second that

The police there must have way to much free time on their hands. What ever happend to the war on drugs! Is it over? And who won?

You know everytime someone makes a comment like this, I have to wonder, are they serious?

You think they should just ignore everything else, and JUST go after dangerous criminals, meanwhile back at the ranch, a kids bike stolen ISN'T impportant? Yeah.. cause it isn't YOUR kid.

These comments are totally stupid. Of course the war on drugs, terror, murder, etc.. are important and they continue, but breaking the law is STILL illegal, so until its NOT legal they need to punish the law breakers.

Selling a small amount of crack or marijuana may seem small time, when there are serial murderers on the loose, but that doesn't make it any LESS legal.. you still need to be brought to justice. What you think people should be able to just do whatever they want because its just a "small" infraction? Give me a break!

I think you are distributing illegal software, and you are upset they are breaking up your ring.

Honestly I don't think it comes down to whats worse for the community, but rather what's worse for the big corporations who help fund busts like these. Why should a corporation care if theres a serial killer hacking people up somewhere when they can care about their software being distributed and link it to them not making as much dough as they think they should be.

The problem? Governments usually lacking funding and when they get it, it's from corporations who have their own agenda.

except this isn't even stealing someone's bike. Look at the issues here:
1) in no court i know of has p2p file sharing been proved to be harmful to the industry
2) these guys were not even sharing any files. they hosted a search engine that could be used to find trackers. i've found google a much better tool for finding torrents...

What the article is not clear on is what were they charged with exactly? or is this soem kidn of phishing raid to try and see if they can charge them with anything... so far, it sounds more like the later, but we need more information

Hey Einstein, not everything on those sites are illegal.

i think he was pointing out the fact that the drug problems in the world far outnumber the piracy problems.
not to mention, the drug problem tends to kill a great number of people. i've yet to hear of anyone dying from copyright infringment.
:-p

i agree,
but, as everyone likes to remind me
money makes the world go round

Amen.

yep, and the legit sites will temporarily suffer... I know this as fact I run a legit torrent site, everytime this happens the downloads of legit content are cut in half.

Funny how it always is the opposite reaction on piracy, it grows on this rather than decreases, not so with legit content sadly.

Hey mr. wizard, then why are they bringing it down? Eh? Yeah, they are taking down POTENTIAL problems, thanks for pointing out the obvious, moron.

*1) in no court i know of has p2p file sharing been proved to be harmful to the industry*

You haven't been paying attention, is that why the RIAA and MAPP has been *SUING* people? Because its not "harmful"? Yeah.. what TV station are you watching? Its determined SEVERAL times over, its ILLEGAL, thus the hard core suing that's going on...

*2) these guys were not even sharing any files. they hosted a search engine that could be used to find trackers. i've found google a much better tool for finding torrents...*

Really? Can you prove that? They can't either! Obviously SOMEBODY was sharing files, on SOME computer.. bit torrent uses my computer and your computer, and it pieces files from different machines. Just because its not a central store for warez files, doesn't make it less legal either, that's sidestepping. Its TRAFFICing.. now we are crossing FEDERAL lines..

Lets not forget also, that your computer in your house is private. Once you start using a phone line, cable, satellite, wireless, you are going across state lines, using federally regulated utilities to send/receive illegal merchandise.. now you are encroaching on OTHER laws.. That's where it gets sticky.

They weren't charged with anything. . . Yet. It probably is a fishing expedition, but SOMEONE used it for illegal purposes that got the attention of Swedish government..

Drugs don't kill people either. PEOPLE Kill people!

Drugs involve money, you piss off enough people with money, and you take their money, that tends to get people killed, it doesn't matter if its drugs or not. Piracy can get you killed as well.. Ever try knocking over a street vendor and take his "stolen" CD's?

Yeah, we will be reading about your a** on the news.. man gets shot trying to be good citizen, film at 11.

Oh come on.. Don't play them like they are stupid.

Look at this logically shall we?

Show me, or demonstrate 1 LEGAL use for a bit torrent, and don't give me this crap about "it's faster than using a regular web site".

BS! I use the internet, they have alternate sites, there are PLENTY of legitimate sites to gain PUBLIC available software.. we ALL know this is a cover for illegal activity, and YOU and I know it.

Does your mother use bit torrent? Why not? If its sooooo good, why not use it for everything?

Yeah, its because people are trying to HIDE their ILLEGAL software! Come on!

Admit it. Using bit torrent, news groups, napster, P2P, is ONLY done because you can GRAB warez stuff, and TV shows, and ILLEGAL content that you are NOT supposed to be getting.

Police are not idiots. FEDS are not idiots. Interpol, they KNOW what goes on. The 6 people in idaho using bit torrent to download demos and public beta software from MS, doesn't make up for the 20 million using it for OTHER warez stuff.. YOU know it. I know it. Quit trying to defend them.

HEADLINE:

"88 year old woman, convicted of downloading korn albums, dies in prison"

lol
:-p

I agree with mostof what you said but

"Drugs don't kill people either. PEOPLE Kill people!"

I do not agree with. Ever hear of anyone ODing on drugs? Millions of people are killed by drugs every year. So by what you say the person found dead with a needle in their arm someone else killed them? Drug dealers just sell the drugs someone has to want to take them.

"You haven't been paying attention, is that why the RIAA and MAPP has been *SUING* people? Because its not "harmful"? Yeah.. what TV station are you watching? Its determined SEVERAL times over, its ILLEGAL, thus the hard core suing that's going on..."

What station are you watching? The one that tells you the **AA's opinion on everything and tell you it's the truth? As i said, they have yet to prove any harm in court. Look at all those RIAA lawsuits, NONE of them have gone to court, until just recently, because they take people who really can't afford a lawyer and tell them. If you give in, we'll only fine you $2000 (or so). That's less that what it would cost to defend themselves.. of course most people will give in. Thus.. as i said: No harm has been proven in court. Some of the people sued were computer illeterate, used macs (on which Kazaa doesn't run), and one was even dead.

Do you look at the actual numbers they make up? They basically equate every single file that's beign shared as a 1-1 loss of sale. Logic alone should tell you that doesn't add up.

"Really? Can you prove that? They can't either! Obviously SOMEBODY was sharing files, on SOME computer.. bit torrent uses my computer and your computer, and it pieces files from different machines. Just because its not a central store for warez files, doesn't make it less legal either, that's sidestepping. Its TRAFFICing.. now we are crossing FEDERAL lines.."
i don't need to prove that no evidence is there. Presumed innocent remember? Also, BT uses trackers, to help connect those computers together. They are simply helping people get those trackers. That in NO way indicates that they are distributing CONENT themselves.

"They weren't charged with anything. . . Yet. It probably is a fishing expedition, but SOMEONE used it for illegal purposes that got the attention of Swedish government.."
If they used it for illegal purposes, then they shoudl be charged with those charges. maybe laws are different in Sweden, but i kind of think it's wrong to raid soem place, because you think SOMEONE, did SOMETHING illegal there, then try and find it. Propable cause and all.

"Show me, or demonstrate 1 LEGAL use for a bit torrent, and don't give me this crap about "it's faster than using a regular web site"."

Red Hat used it to distrubute their Linux. WHy? because it saved them bandwidth$. That's oen reason why many legitimate people who want to share stuff use BT.

www.purepwnage.com/ is a fan made video series that uses BT to distribute their content.

Oh and the Big one:
"Warner Bros. Home Entertainment Group Announces Revolutionary Deal to Publish Legal Film and TV Content using the BitTorrent Platform"
http://www.bittorrent.co...6-05-09-Warner-Bros.myt

I know I usually "rip" on you and you use logical fallacies left and right, but I agree with you on this one. Though I think you meant "so until it's NOT illegal" instead of "so until its NOT legal".

You just had to ruin it, didn't you? I agreed with you on something and then you make a post like this. You couldn't come up with a legal and legit use for BitTorrent? You're showing your ignorance. RedHat using BitTorrent has already been mentioned. Blizzard also used BitTorrent to download patches for WoW.

My mother does not use BitTorrent. Why? She has never used a computer (EDIT: a sibling pointed out that has actually used one, but it gave her a headache). And long passwords, hardware firewalls, disabling unneeded services, and being careful what you open are all good things, so why don't everyone do that? (EDIT: Just because something's a good idea doesn't mean people will do it.) You're doing straw man and red herring attacks.

By the way, one of the Usenet groups I go to is comp.risks and I doubt that's used for warez. Same for comp.distributed. So much for "ONLY". You need better arguments.

---------- (from Moore−Bruder: Philosophy: The Power of Ideas, Sixth Edition)

Straw man. Sometimes people (even philosophers) will “refute” someone’s view by refuting what is actually a mispresentation of that view. If we aren’t careful, we may think the original view has been refuted rather than the “straw man” that actually has been attacked. When the Irish philosopher George Berkeley maintained that physical objects are really just clusters of sensations existing only in the mind, the English writer Samuel Johnson “refuted” Berkeley by noting that some physical objects are so hard that things just bounce off them. Johnson then kicked a rock, trying to demonstrate that rocks are too hard to be mere sensations. But Johnson had in fact mispresented Berkeley, for Berkeley had never maintained that rocks are not hard. Johnson had set up a straw man that was easy to knock over.

• Red herring. This argument occurs when someone addresses a point other than the one actually at issue, that is, brings in something that is off the point. For example, suppose we wish to establish that people have free will—that is, that they could have acted otherwise than they did. Suppose, further, our “proof” is that people obviously do lots of things they do not like to do and that therefore people must be able to make choices. We have brought in a red herring. What we have proved is not that people could have acted otherwise than they did but, rather, that they can make choices. (The fact that you chose to act is not equivalent to the fact that you could have acted differently.)

Legal use for torrent:

1.) Company wants to distribute application without increasing server-load and bandwidth consumption.

2.) Company has free product (an example would be linux distributions, but not limited to them) and wants to distribute it as a way to lighten the load on it's servers and on those mirroring the distributions.

3.) Distribution of updates and patches *within* an application. Opera is heading this way. Many programs offer downloads and updates now via the BT network.

Do I really need to go on?

Indeed, I can see why half our police officers are used in speed limit enforcement on our roads - makes perfect sense. Bugger the thieves, rapists and murders of this world: there's no money in catching them. Let's just go hunt vehicles on the freeway doing 103km/h instead of 100km/h, and hand them a nice $125 fine. Hell, it pays wages, right? :P

"Guns don't kill people. Kids who play video games kill people." :P

Err... go talk to Blizzard about the legal use of bit torrent. :P

Admit it. Using bit torrent, news groups, napster, P2P, is ONLY done because you can GRAB warez stuff, and TV shows, and ILLEGAL content that you are NOT supposed to be getting.
-----------------------------------------------
Napster is now legit and I know many LEGAL companies who use bit torrent to distribute their software.

the war on drugs never existed. come on people, use that grey matter between your ears... lets look at the so called combatants in this war:

[1] the government, who has to follow laws and rules and regulations and must conduct a war in such a way soas not to piss off their constituancy.

[2] the drug lords, who have unlimited funds, dont have to follow any rules and regulations, and who - if they decided to go to war against someone, would do so in a quick and ruthless manner as possible. They would be cunning, they would be fearsome, and most of all, they would be ruthless.

so you tell me.... you have ganghis kahn on one side and a defenseless baby on the other... who would win if there was really a war?> lol

so said by a truely law abiding citizen... I bet you never turned without a turn signal, never bnroke the speed limit? never cheated on your taxes? and if an error was made in your favor, you always brought it to the erring party to make sure everything was right? lol get a life

once again, drugs didnt kill... misuse of them did. some MORON decided to thing that shooting 10 lbs of heroin in their veins wouldnt hurt them or something simular.
if you simply use the arguement "Ever hear of anyone ODing on drugs?" to justify making drugs illegal then lets make cars illegal too because "did you hear that someone died in a vehicuilar accident?" is the same thing

"potential problems"????

like the potential for someone to steal just because they used up the last of their cash and payday isnbt until 3 days from now... lock up all the people who are maxxed out on their cc's and pennyless until payday because the "potential for theft" is now present

rijp I have a question for you. Do you think it should be illegal to download shows that were on public TV from bit torrent? If I miss and forget to record 24, should it be illegel for me to go into bit torrant and download the episode?

Personally I think it should be legal, maybe not to record stuff from HBO and Showtime because a lot of those are movies that were in the theater. Although if I want to copy an original show from HBO like the Sopronos I should be able to. BUT its hard for them to stop you from recording a movie from pay TV. I can see why they don't want you to copy movies, but a TV program that has been on and only on public TV I think they shouldn't be able to say we can't do that.

This was literally the case in Oakland California USA. Four punks actually played GTA and went on a murder spree. They drown around at night and killed several peple...

Do you drink? Do you drive? In that case the police should confiscate your car. We must prevent any possibility that an idiot would do both at the same time. Prevention is justifiable at any cost.

How is that any different than banning BitTorrent because some people are thieves?

Right on, but the government sure is spending a lot of money on a war that does not exist.
And as for ganghis kahn and the defenseless baby. If that baby had the bird flu he could bring that mother ****er down.:-) LOL

LOL

And yet you use all of those wrongs to justify yet another.

Brilliant.

Get a life indeed...

Some of us are actually guided by such things as ethics and morals. Your glaring lack of them does not justify copyright infringement.

I find it amazing how some folks spend their entire lives believing they *deserve* to be able to speed, to cheat on taxes, and to get that extra $10 from a bank teller who will now probably be *fired* for the mistake.

..and let's not forget you also *deserve* all those free downloads, right?

If you had *any* concept of right and worng, any ability to see how your actions affect those around you, any ability to see beyond your 'instant gratification', you'd realize what a joke you are.

I guess it's a good thing you can't. One less suicide victim to clean up after.

I'm *sure* they were upstanding young members of society prior to playing the game, right?

Idiot.

Cars do not impair judgement, alter brain-chemistry, alter your genes, or foster addiction.

The comparison you make is absurd.

Drugs are illegal because they *cause* harm. They aren't the vehicle, they aren't the delivery mechanism for harm, they *are* harmful.

Potential for the situations you cited to turn into theft: ~3%

Potential for TPB to be used for illegal file-sharing: 98%

Gee, I wonder if *that* makes a difference.

You aren't really this stupid, are you?

think you people should clarify your thinking a little
there is a difference between contraband drugs and pharmaceutical drugs.

most drugs arn't illegal because they cause harm, they're controlled because people misuse them, and the misuse causes harm.
in fact, there are very few drugs that are completely illegal, and not controlled by the government
as i've said before, many drugs have their uses
i'm sure we've all taken many drugs, we just don't obtain them illegally for misuse

To PC_Tool

Been reading your comments, we seem to be on the same page :-)

As I see it, copying will continue.
And it if was encouraged could be a very cost effective way to distribute, thus bringing down prices.

So what about some solutions? Way people can continue to copy AND the copyright owner gets money for thier work?

I would be interested to hear you ideas :-) ... here are a few of mine ...

Allow people to buy a licence to copy.
The person can go (say) into a shop, take a CD from the shelf, show the shop their licence, put CD into their laptop, make a copy, put CD back on the shelf, and leave the shop, all legal. The shop takes note of your licence and gets a small fee.

Have a shop linked to a central server, with every music track and film ever created. Go into shop with some portable storage (CD-rw, DVD-rw, flash drive and so on) - show licence, or pay (resonable!) - have purchase put onto storage device.

Friend pops around, shows you their licence, copys a music track and a film - all legal.

... There has been question of how to distribute the licence money to which artists ... so setup a website where the people can buy a licence ... AND where the people can tell them what they have copied

:-)

Build a better mousetrap you getting a smarter mouse. Illegal copying, like drugs are going to be around forever, there's just no stopping it.

Odd, most criminals caught fleeing from the scene of crimes are in vehicles...OH...and over 80% of them are speeding.. Hmmm, kind of clears up the picture, eh?

Laughable at best. Since I'm not sure if you agree with what happened, I won't blast you for it. However, to agree with that sort of ideology is like saying McDonald's made you fat. I've played GTA since it first came out and I'm a very non-violent person. It's all about the choices YOU make. The Nuremberg Trials of WWII established that each person is responsible for their OWN actions...it's funny how a society that has advanced so tremendously in the last 60 years has actually regressed in it's line of thinking to believe that we should blame OTHERS for our actions.

OH definitely. They attended church, helped out elderly persons in their neighborhood, created study groups for younger kids, got straight A's in school, and never said a bad thing about anyone..... LOL

Actually, I have no clue what types of people they were, but the odds of you being a role-model citizen one day, and then playing GTA and becoming a serial murderer the next, is about as plausible as John Kerry actually *deserving* all 3 of his Purple Heart awards...LOL

...wow.

Sorry, did not mean to include pharma drugs, thought it was obvious I wasn't talking about those.

Didn't mean to confuse the issue.

Allow people to buy a licence to copy.

License will be abused. As it is now. Copies will be made from the copy and distributed illegally.

The ability to tag each copy and limit it's ability to be copied is known as DRM.

There's no way the RIAA or MPAA would *ever* allow a license to be handed out allowing unfettered copying.

Whatever system there will be some that abuse it.

But with a choice between getting no money and getting some money !?

At least with a licence when the police come knocking at the door - they get to see what the person has copied - check the licence ... and if all is in order they go away !!!

The point I was making is that copying will never stop. It's a cost effective way to distribute. So how about some marketing models that actually use it.

I have witnessed a lot of talk in these forums - now Id like some solutions.

People die when drunk folks drive.

No one dies when bit-torrent is used.

There's no comparison. You're trolling.

If it's been OTA, you should be able to record / copy *that* stream.

But download the season 1 DVD because you could* have recorded them is pushing it.

They are airing it on the networks for veiwing at *that* time. Not for one's personal archival purposes.

I fully admit to downloading LOST if I miss an ep. Hell, I've even been known to play it on the big-screen at work over lunch for a bunch of fans.

It aired the previous night, I am not charging to watch it, and the disc gets re-used for the next ep. I am not keeping personal copies or creating an archival collection.

Were I downloading an HD rip and building my own Season 2 DVDs, then I would be crossing the line, even if it were for my own enjoyment and not for public display.

The above is all opinion. None of it based on fact of law or interpretation of Fair-Use rights. It is my personal take on the issue and should *not* be taken as quotation of what is "right" and what is "wrong".

But with a choice between getting no money and getting some money !?

You forgot the "lock it down so they can't do a damn thing with it other than what *we* allow" option.

That appears to be the one they are going for.

it appears to be their solution. I dislike DRM, but I *really* don't see a realistic alternative.

I'd *love* it if they'd allow us to purchase DRM-free lossless content. I'd buy it up in a heart-beat. Even at $1.50 a song.

But the reality is that such a service would be abused to the point they would lose more money than they were making due to copying and sharing over the 'net.

I'd like to think we're all ethical and moral people, who, when faced with such choices would choose to do the right thing, but all you need to do is read these forums and many others to see that such a belief is pure fantasy.

So what would your solution be? Leave it up tot he corporations to protect their rights?

Yeah...

I can see it now.

Corporate police. Not bound by laws, since it would cost us too much to enforce, and free to wreak any brand of havoc they choose.

Yeah. That'd be *wonderful*.

Where do I sign up?

...

Point being, if we don't enforce the rights of copyright holders, who will?

Yeah, copyrights, in their current form, suck. The whole system badly needs to be overhauled. But ignoring any and all rights granted by them is simply not an option.

We need to change how they are given, how long they last, and exactly what rights are granted. Not simply ignore them entirely.

Then you like DRM?

Because that is the *only* way, aside from political enforcement, that they can protect their rights granted via copyright.

Ready for some good old HDCP lovin'?

Yeah.

We should all grow our own food and barter for goods and services.

We all know Money is the Root of All Evil, right?

lmao...

Whatever, man.

all linux distro sites use it. bittorrent is a good way to decrease traffic from a web server

bah,
even when we bartered, there were still greedy a$$hole$
just seems to be more the way of life now

buy the way
i've got a couple dozen bison furs, if you have a cow or two
i'm getting tired of going to the grocery store for milk
:-p

Even with the most stringent of security - what stops someone pointing a camera at a screen, and a microphone near a speaker ?

If eyes can see it, if ears can hear it - it can, and will, be copied.

Millions are being spent advertising.
Millions are being spent distributing.
And what of the cost (to the environment) of petrol in vans, cardboard in boxes, plastics in packaging, plastics in CDs / DVDs.

'Viral marketing' is a salespersons dream.

There has to be a way for everyone to be happy.

Time to think 'outside the box'

:-)

umm, please think before you post. I actually do run a legit content site that uses bittorrent.

http://www.livingtorrents.com

You may check all the content yourself to see if it is legal, we only distribute stuff that we get permission for from either the authors or the places that distribute it.

We have currently one tv show called Zola Levitt Presents which you can get the schedual for at http://www.levitt.tv if your interested in and watch on tv. This permission we have recieved directly from the ministry, the son of Zola approved it.

Besides a tv show we have a few cd's which we got through www.firefighters.org, and a multitude of other things that we obtained permission legaly.

We are not huge, but we exist do not discount the uses of bittorrent. As for the facts of the drop in legal use yes, I can document it with my logs. We used to get 50% of our hits from suprnova, when that shut down we had to start over and spread our links wider than previously.

As for Pirate Bay, well we rarely got hits from there.

It really is frusterating to see that people think that the content on bittorrent is 100% pirated, this is not true. Yes it can be misused, and it is that is fact, but do not blame everyone that uses bittorrent for the users that do this.

*end rant* :)

PS. I do not pirate and I have about 90 Gigs of content.

Another example of legal use...a group just put out an animated short called "Elephant Dreams". The entire thing was done with open source tools, and they are distributing it for free.

The usenet is also host to many of the best technical discussions and support I have *ever* encountered.

Even with the most stringent of security - what stops someone pointing a camera at a screen, and a microphone near a speaker ?

The crappier the quality of the rips become, the more the problem begins to solve itself. ;)

'Viral marketing' is a salespersons dream.

There has to be a way for everyone to be happy.

Time to think 'outside the box'

Yes, but reality must come into play at some point, or we get another dotcom bubble bust.

No cows, but I do have a goat. However, my wife is allergic to bison fur... You wouldn't happen to have a lamb or two, do you?

So your saying the person who takes crack or snorts coke is just misusing it? Once you take crack once your addicted and you feel you have to have it and that addiction is what will kill you.

Yes cars can kill but thats because either people don't know how to drive, or they're on something.

well trying them the first time was their fault and they deserve what they get. therefore people do kill people, not drugs. if they chose not to start then they wouldnt be dead would they? same for drunk drivers, if they didnt drink and drive they wouldnt be dead, or at least less likely to be dead, therefor its their own fault for being a moron.

well not trying drugs keeps your from having that problem doesnt it?

well why dont you tell me excactly what on that site they needed that they couldnt wait to have? all that stuff was either free stuff or entertainment, which if i remember correct isnt needed for survival.

What?

no but the fact remains that the majority of content is illegal and they refused to take down what was illegal, that is why they got shut down.

you dont try drugs and you wont have the problem with overdosing on them.

lmao..

Okay.

agreed not disputing that one bit.
I am not for piracy in the least, anyone that has been on Living Torrents for any amount of time can attest that from all the shoutbox logs.

The thing is though, whether or not that is the case at this point in time the only way to get connections on bittorrent is to post on pirate sites the torrents that you create. That is extremely sad, but that is the fact.

places like bittorrent.com may be gaining some steam, but if they do not update site listing regularly, there is not much use in the short term.

Am I for/defending Pirate Bay? No way, i did not like their site from day one and neither have I posted torrents there because of their disrespect for authority.

Am I for a torrent listing site?
Yes, I would love to see something like suprnova come back except in a different form with someone moderating each submition for piracy. Thing with that though, that would require at least 20 people, and no such place has done that as of yet because of the enormous amount of work it would create.

They haven't been "shut down", they are only under investigation. The police aren't even sure if they did anything wrong yet.

In fact, I understand the Pirate Party (or a related organization) in Sweeden also had some supposedly illegal seizures of servers.

I hope this gives the party a boost in popularity over there, and that thepiratebay.org is back up and running soon. :)

Can't get enough pirated material?

Well, they are guilty of SOMETHING. They are probably using whatever methods they can to sieze them "probably cause" so they can determine what they are doing as illegal..

Kinda like a drug sting, you know they are doing the drugs and selling drugs, but the people using and selling aren't saying where they are coming from, so they have to resort to getting people inside... Siezing equipment, gets them in.

I wouldn't go attesting to their innocence.. something is going on.

maybe we should all go for scheduled weekly investigations at the local cop shop, just to prove we're still innocent eh?

I will have to agree with you Man, I would not vouch for there innocense either, and I have no idea how it is over in Sweden.. but here it is innocent until proven guilty.

Yes! That's a great idea. Get to the police squad, get finger printed, have your Id checked, and a drug screen while you are at it..

Because you know what? It can not only PROVE your innocence, it ALSO makes things go a lot quicker if you did. No time wasted checking everyone's id, if we already have your DNA on file!

I don't see a problem with it!

Yeah... sooooo.. we have to ASSUME that since they confiscated their merchandise.. they are not innocent, are they?

Yeah, they don't invesitigate people who AREN'T doing anything wrong..

When was the last time your house was raided by accident? That's my point.

Someone must have given them a tip, and if only *1* person used it for illegal purposes, that makes it a candidate for inspection, now doesn't it? Can you say "probable cause"?

>Yeah, they don't invesitigate people who AREN'T doing anything wrong..

I have been investigated several times based on name alone, both by local law enforcement and federal law enforcement. They were suprised to find out that they had the wrong guy. Investigation doesn't mean guilty. It is fact finding and nothing more. Having multiple degrees in criminology and criminal justice, you should let the process work. Here (in the US) just because someone is investigated doesn't mean they should be stigmitized as an offender.

>and if only *1* person used it for illegal purposes, that makes it a condidate for inspection, now doesn't it?

In that case Google, Yahoo, MSN, Altivista, and other search engines should have their servers immediately confiscated for accessory to commit IP infringement. While you are at it, all of dalnet, undernet, and most IRC servers should also be investigated for allowing dcc connections for file sharing. Oh let's not forget chat client servers for AIm, Messenger, Yahoo, IRQ, and any other that let's you send files directly, as they might have been used for illegal purposes as well.

ummm...
what country are you from?
according to law, which was written by people far more knowedgable in these areas than you, i've commited no crimes, until it's proven.
i'm sure we could all be convicted of breaking some law. but that's not the point. it's wheather we've harmed anyone or not. that's why laws were written, to protect you and your fellow man.
stop reading into things that arn't there.
you seem paranoid that everyone is a criminal, just because the people with money say so.

i enjoy living in a free counry, even if you don't

Just another case of rjjp shooting his mouth off. Maybe one of these days he'll accidently aim a bit higher. :) Sorry. I just enjoy playing with metaphors.

rjjp, it's called "critical thinking", not "being critical".

In my country your innocent and that presumption must be made till proven otherwise.
You sound like a Neocon to me

When was the last time your house was raided by accident?

It happens. An ARMY of 75 cops kicked in a door near Los Angeles. They gunned down the owner in the middle of the night. All of this mayhem was the by-product, of a high flying nark in an aeroplane, who couldn't see the difference between tomato and marijuana plants. The dead man did not smoke dope, had no drugs in his house, no paraphenalia and no criminal record. But Donald Scott is still DEAD. Google this one and read all about it. Look before you leap...

Well said.

i bet there is more to that biased story then they are letting on, or the media is horribly convoluting it. point being there is either more to the story or it was 1 mistake. you cite me 100 such inidents and i might believe you but such as it is it happens maybe a few times a year, and mostly without such bad results.

newsgroup indexers busts soon to come?

Apparently newsgroups are immune to this, because they are hosted on college campuses, and they haven't figured out how they want to tackle these yet..

I don't think I have seen a lawsuit involving a news group.. its interesting isn't it?

The largest distribution on the internet, and yet they are allowing it to persist...

I didn't mean the actual newsgroups themselves, but rather the websites like newzbin that offer inhanced newsgroup searches for a monthly cost. Apparently they've recently gotten a little legal heat, but some have stood their ground for now.

"Apparently newsgroups are immune to this, because they are hosted on college campuses, and they haven't figured out how they want to tackle these yet.."

Because they'd be cooked for sure if the media had learned that they hacked into a UNIVERSITY to find proof of foul play. Frankly, the Campus Area Networks are the largest source of illegal web content in the States IMHO. No statistics or proof to back that theory up, but that bandwidth on our local CAN is being sucked up somehow...too many of the IP addresses they are using happen to be IP addresses in Sweden, now that I think about it. This is a huge deal if they finally bust those pirates.

Part of that I believe has to do with the fact that the newsgroup "company" itself is widespread geographically and not just the web ring. Good question--can anyone give a better answer?

What about IRC to my knowledge no one has tried to touch that yet.

There is no NEWSGROUP company.. its a share of cached servers (mainly colleges and universities) across the globe..

There is NO central server for NEWSGROUPS, they are synchronized (for certain groups), and some news servers opt to leave the known or foreign news groups, like warez, sweden, russia... etc..

MSN news groups only show Microsoft stuff for instance.. and some public ones, but you can't get warez stuff from MSN Newsgroups server... at least a few years ago you couldn't.

Well, the websites don't "house" the info, they just give access to it.

They aren't doing anything wrong, per se, because, just like torrent sites, they have LEGAL purpose... many of those news providers also give TEXT only access, so you can't even download using a TEXT only account..

Well technically you could if you know how to decrypt yenc files.. but that's another story . . . .

Dude...I think that's why he had "company" in quotes. ;)

bourgeoisdude,

While off-topic, it's one of my favorite subjects. This network has continually amazed me and fascinated me since the early '80s.

Check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

For a good starting point about where it came from (one of the first popular uses of the 'net), what's possible, the tech behind it, how it's currently being used, and possible future ramifications / issues are all dealt with in pretty good detail there.

Towards the bottom, you will find links leading to more info, more or less biased. YMMV.

It's one of the most interesting things the 'net has ever spawned. It has proven highly adaptable, and extremely resistant to authority or control of any kind other than those provided within the limitations of the network itself. It seems to be resillient beyond measure, and likely one of the few remaining networks that utterly fail to fall under control or regulation by any country or organization.

One of the best descriptions I have ever seen of the usenet is simple and pure Anarchy. The only limitations being those in the network upon which it was built, and they've successfully overcome many of those.

I can only imagine what the folks who built it intended it to become, and their reaction to it's current state.

Seriously, check it out. You won't be disappointed. Yeah, even when limited to legal use. :) (The discussions (technical, social, scientific) that take place on this network alone are worth the price of admission.)

Apparently newsgroups are immune to this, because they are hosted on college campuses, and they haven't figured out how they want to tackle these yet..

Gimme a break. college campuses have been primary targets for the MPAA/RIAA lawyers. Some schools have shut down file sharing of any kind completely to avoid lawsyuits...

TBP says "Torrent trackers is completely legal in Sweden" all the time. Well, now they have to prove this in court :) I hope they will.

they already did prove it in court, apparently they are being taken to court over it again though. which is crap. there are plenty of legal things on TPB, and there are lots of illegal files being linked to, but they arent on their servers.