RSSBad Vista-to-Windows 7 upgrade experiences #2: No TV in Media Center
By Scott M. Fulton, III | Published October 28, 2009, 4:43 PM
Typically when you upgrade a computer from one operating system to the very next level up, you don't want the new system replacing or deleting anything without your knowledge and approval. Windows 7 thus far seems to be quite good on this score. But perhaps it's too good in the case of its new and somewhat enhanced Windows Media Center, whose new reliance on an upstream recording prevention mechanism that's part of its PlayReady scheme, among other things, renders obsolete Vista's media settings.
As a result, if you have a TV tuner in your Vista-based PC, and you follow all the instructions for migrating to Win7, the new Media Center could insist you don't have a TV there at all. Betanews was able to reconstruct the conditions of a situation some upgraders are reporting where their built-in tuners disappear. Luckily, we also have a solution to the problem that worked for us, and that may hopefully work for you if you're in similar circumstances. But let's concede right off the bat, it's not an easy or intuitive solution, so don't blame yourself thinking there's something you missed.
Betanews recreated the problem using a Vista-based dual-core Intel PC, and a Hauppage WinTV PVR-350 tuner card. This is an older card that takes in analog signals in SD, not HD, from cable or antenna, although we found some TV tuner card users had other models. Device Manager clearly recognizes the tuner card for what it is. But after switching on Media Center for the first time, the program complained that it could not find the TV tuner.
It's a problem that was reported as early as last May by a Windows 7 tester, who reported to Microsoft at the time: "I upgraded to the RC of Win7 and everything went beautifully. Even stressed the install by 'having' a four-year-old turn off the machine in the middle! When I got to the end, I was checking out how stuff was working and went into Media Center. When trying to play live TV, I get a message that it can't find the tuner card. No update for the driver thru [Windows Update]."
More recently, there was this from the SageTV Community: "I had installed Win 7 the first time with the [Hauppage] PVR-350 installed in the machine, so I thought the driver install was messed up so I removed the card and did a fresh install of Windows 7 without it and then installed the card but same outcome. The Device Manager shows Video Capture Device as not installed and when I try to update the driver it fails to install."
Microsoft MVPs suggested to many individuals that they try installing an older version of the WinTV drivers, preferably one intended for XP, using Compatibility Mode during the installation. We found no evidence of anyone attempting this and succeeding. Then we tried this ourselves with no success either. As we discovered, this method is actually guaranteed to fail. Other willing assistants from Microsoft and elsewhere have offered what seems like sound enough advice at any time: Find and install the latest available drivers. But here is where folks were running into problems too: Microsoft established its Windows 7 Compatibility Center to direct individuals to the drivers and support software they need for their components and software to run in the new OS. But Microsoft doesn't actually host the files itself -- that would be a Herculean task. So it directs users to the manufacturers' Web pages where the files should be found.
At the time of our test, the Compatibility Center notified us that the PVR-350 is compatible with Windows 7. (This turns out to be quite correct.) But the download link takes us to Hauppage's US Web site, where the same "Compatible with Windows 7" badge appears as shown on Microsoft's site. However, Hauppage reports, "WinTV-PVR is not certified for use with Windows 7, though it will work in many systems with Windows 7 32-bit version."
This is somewhat ominous sounding for folks who remember the experience with "Vista Ready" and "Certified for Vista," the distinctions between which customers were expected to determine intuitively. In any event, the Hauppage US site then leads customers to a download page, where the most recent drivers appear to be for Vista.
Installing these drivers will also ensure the tuner card does not work with Windows 7. Realizing that Hauppage was a UK-based company, we tried the same route on the British site. There we located the absolute latest version of the driver, which we would later discover will work with Windows 7, without the need for any Compatibility Mode. Once you've downloaded the proper driver for whatever TV tuner card you have, there's a proper order for getting everything set up properly. Here's the method that worked for us:
1. Uninstall the current tuner card driver. Make sure Media Center is exited when you do.
2. Clean any instance of the driver files from your computer. You don't want Windows 7 automatically re-installing the drivers you just uninstalled after you reboot. With the Hauppage driver kit, there's an .EXE file for doing just this, called HCWCLEAR.EXE. Then reboot the PC.
3. Let Windows 7 try to reinstall the driver automatically and fail. It will create an entry for "Multimedia Device" in your Device Manager, and put a little exclamation mark icon next to it. Let that happen, but do not use Device Manager to try to reinstall the newer driver -- in other words, avoid any temptation to right-click on this entry and "Update Driver."
4. Install the latest driver using the TV tuner card manufacturer's setup file. Hauppage offers its driver packages in two forms, one of which contains the WinTV program; we've noted that WinTV and Media Center are typically incompatible with one another anyway. So if you happen to have the larger package that contains WinTV, skip the on-screen step that asks you to install WinTV.
5. Reboot the PC again. But don't start Media Center, not yet.
6. Open a command line with administrator privileges. I keep a link to CMD.EXE on the Start Menu, then right-click on it and select Open as Administrator.
7. Navigate to the Media Center directory. (Yes, you're using the old cd command.) Typically you'll find this in a folder under your Windows home directory, usually \windows\ehome
8. Run the following command: mcupdate -MediaCenterRecoveryTask You won't get an on-screen response, so don't worry when you see nothing happen.
9. Launch Windows Media Center. At this point, you will have erased the setup that should have been erased during the Windows 7 upgrade process -- the setup that only pertains to Vista anyway. Yes, you have to start from scratch and re-introduce Media Center to your TV tuner. But hey -- it's there! And in a few minutes, you'll be able to watch -- and more importantly for your setup, record -- live TV.
On a related note: XP and Vista users had discovered they were able to network their set-top boxes to their PCs using a Firewire connection, and with the aid of some remarkable drivers called ExDeus created by a private citizen, record HD digital shows using Media Center. Unfortunately, many of these users are now reporting that these private drivers (nor their predecessor, another private effort called FireSTB) are not working in Windows 7. So for the meantime, some folks are sticking with Vista until either someone takes the time to rewrite the drivers, or another relatively reasonable digital recording solution makes itself available.
gee, I upgraded to sn0wleopard from leopard with no issues :)
lol sorry, just had to do it.
Score: -1
|The US site has the same driver that's on the UK site.
http://www.hauppauge.com...ort/support_wintv7.html
It's included in WinTV version 1.2a.
Score: 0
|Two nitpicks:
1. Hauppauge is the correct spelling. Not Hauppage
2. Hauppauge is based in Hauppauge, NY USA (on Long Island). It has a UK subsidiary but the main company is American.
Score: 0
|Again, another reason why you should avoid UPGRADING. Always, ALWAYS do a clean install. My Win 7 Ultimate x64 is working flawlessly, and easily worth the upgrade over Vista (not that I ever had any problems on it either...just 7 is far less bloated).
Score: 1
|http://www.promdressonsales.com/
http://www.weddingdressart.com/
http://www.dresses4dancing.com/
http://www.dressupinyou.com/
http://www.hidresses.com/
http://www.digdress.com/
http://www.promdress2go.com/
http://www.promdress2u.com/
I don't find the use of the motion sensor in the iPhone to be counter-immersive (and yes, the adjective exists, as of the second you posted the article, that's the way languages remain dynamic 8D), althouogh some executions of it are a bit silly (like shaking the unit while playing Tap Defense to activate Earthquake Towers, very immersive but it disrupts gameplay as you have to reestablish
Score: -6
|WTF does this have to do with Vista-to-Win7 upgrading?
Score: -1
|Can someone explain how to do step 6,7 and 8? I am confused on how to do that.
Score: 0
|not worth the trouble, i would say.
you may want to wait for an update from microsoft or a new driver from the maker.
Score: 0
|Click the start button. Type CMD but don't press Enter. cmd.exe will be at the top of the list of matching programs. Right-click on it and then left-click Run as administrator. Answer Yes to the security prompt. When the cmd window opens, type
cd c:\windows\ehome
and press Enter.
Type
mcupdate -MediaCenterRecoveryTask
and press Enter.
Score: 0
|Alternatively, you can hold CTRL+S H I F T while left-clicking on any icon, and it will run it with escalated Administrator privileges... in Windows 7, at least.
Score: 0
|well the first mistake you made scott, was to ask a "MVP" for advice.
what exactly do you think an MVP is, a microsoft certified technician?
you would have likely received the same advice by asking your buildings janitor?
Score: 0
|I hate upgrades, I always opt for a clean install with a new hard drive and use the old drive to migrate any media over.
Score: 0
|Keep the old drive. Store all new media on it. No migration necessary. :)
Score: 1
|When will they ever learn? If you're going to run Windows, always have 2 partitions: 1 for Windows, and the other for programs/storage..??
Score: 0
|...like any other modern OS?
Yeah. :) Dead on.
Score: 0
|don't worry! calm down! don't go jumping off a building over this!
because the failures of win7 will be fixed in win8.
Score: -6
|reinstalling drivers that are not o.s. specific is futile.
basically if the manufacturers don't provide its customers with updated drivers or patches and if microsoft doesn't have them,
then its time.....
Score: -1
|I recently did a fresh install of W7 Ultimate 32bit. Using a Toshiba Satellite L500 series. After the frsh install, all my built in toshiba apps, drivers etc got removed.
Now, questions - How did I get them back? And which all do I need?
Also, the function key, no longer works. How to fix that?
Score: 0
|I would try the Vista drivers/apps on Toshiba's website, perhaps?
Don't actually own any Toshiba's, and I usually remove the OEM installed cruft the second I get it, so...
Score: 1
|So wait..you did a fresh install of Win 7, then installed the apps/drivers from Toshiba's site for the L500/Windows 7 x86, and then they suddenly disappeared? Sounds like you did a System Restore to the original Win 7 install point.
As for the function key, call Toshiba. They claim the L500 is 100% compatible with Windows 7, and it should be well within the warranty period, as the L500 was released in June of '09.
Score: 0
|I had no problems updating to Win 7. I even have a tuner card. What I didnt think was fun was that I couldnt do a clean install I had to do an upgrade to use my upgrade. Kinda sucked....
Score: -1
|ID10T error...you can ALWAYS do a clean install. For the Upgrade versions of the discs, as long as you have another Windows OS CD laying around, you can insert it during the installation phase to verify that you have previously purchased a copy of another Windows OS.
Score: -1
|That doesn't work to upgrade to Vista or Win 7. They don't check CDs or DVDs for previous versions.
Score: 1
|Shows how much you know, because the last OS to allow verification via a CD was XP.
Score: 0
|IMO it is always better to do a clean install. Problems like this can be avoided. I saw someone post on a forum an awesome program that will help you get a lot of the popular programs installed back onto your computer. ---> http://ninite.com/
Score: 1
|I upgraded from Vista with an old hauppauge card installed and working and found that it didn't work after the upgrade but all I did was install the OEM software drivers again and it all worked perfectly without the conveluted steps described in this article.
By the way, a clean install of Windows7 had the device working perfectly so the issue would appear to have just been a driver conflict.
At the end of the day, as lots of manufacturers don't currently have any Windows7 specific drivers available this sort of problem is to be expected that is why running the Microsoft Windows7 upgrade advisor is a good idea as it will tell you what you might have problems with along with what is known to not work or at least be a concern posr-upgrade.
Score: 3
|Had old PCI analog. Worked ok in RC1 then bad in RTM on old and new modern mashine. Bought top of the line or near it Haugpauge and everything works now.
Score: 0
|FFS....
Seriously? One bad driver?
Wait, no... One bad firmware update (from Intel) and one bad driver?
Got nothing better to do than flame Windows 7 today, Scott?
What's next? "Bad Vista-to-Windows 7 upgrade experiences #3:Scratched installation DVD's not being read properly."? Followed by, "#4: I didn't get enough hits on the last article."?
Score: 3
|No more like "You have to REALLY press the mouse button hard to get Windows to respond now!!" hehehehehe
Score: 0
|No, once again, Tool, you've missed the point. You're trying to paint grey as black or grey as white again, and then hold the editor accountable for the black-or-whiteness of the result.
I've got nothing better to do today than help people avoid hosing their drives and losing their patience. Yes, we're talking about maybe 0.1% of folks out there, but that's still a sizable chunk of Windows 7 users. And our understanding about _why_ incidents like this can be, or could have been, prevented contributes to our ability to manage all of our operating systems better and more efficiently.
Did I flame Intel? No, I stated that the firmware update causes problems with a substantial number of SSD owners, that Intel yanked the update (which was responsible), and hopefully that alerts enough people of the problem before they lose their data in an innocent upgrade attempt. Did I flame Hauppage? No, I stated that Microsoft pointed users to a manufacturer's Web page whose US edition wasn't as up-to-date as the homebase UK edition. Understanding how that kind of mixup can happen can improve everyone's ability to provide the proper tools on time. Did I flame Microsoft? No, because quite frankly, just about none of this was Microsoft's fault anyway.
What's next? Helping people get through their lives and their work with less hassle. Life isn't always about passing judgment, and when Betanews is at its best, it isn't the online equivalent of "Hannity & Colmes." Real life isn't about finding fault. Real life is about avoiding it. I want this publication to be about real life. And if I can find a way to provide some expertise with the headline, "Good Vista-to-Windows 7 upgrade experiences," I'll do it. I expect to be cursed for being on the white side this time, as though Microsoft's paying me under the table, but who cares? Most people don't care about that kind of crap anyway.
-SF3
Score: 1
|It's so cute watching you spin this stuff.
Yeah, you're not at all spreading an illusion that Windows 7 upgrades from Vista are bad. Not at all. No, Sir. Your headlines don't at all spark that perception... You're just helping people...
Yeah, and I'm the nicest guy on the face of the planet. Never too blunt, never sarcastic.
Score: 0
|Again with the headlines. If everything that could be accomplished through publishing could be done with headlines alone, I'd do like some of my competition and publish just headlines without real stories beneath them, or headlines that sound the death knell for society with single paragraphs that say, "Read the real story on Silicon Insider!"
No, giving people solutions to problems does not spread the illusion that the world is full of problems, just as your presence here in Betanews does not give readers at large the impression that the world is full of monochromatic, polarized attitudes. Maybe we're the exceptions to the rule.
-SF "Exception #10810" 3
Score: 0
|So the headlines have nothing to do with perception? Really? You're not actually going with that, are you?
How about headlines that don't sensationalize a non-issue? Oh, right..because then no-one would actually read the article. -_-
I can only imagine the lack of interest in a piece titled: "One driver issue found in Windows 7 upgrade.", or "Intel TRIM related firmware update bricks drives." (Actually, that second one might actually succeed in getting hits *and* not trolling the Windows 7 fans/foes.)
Score: 0
|What I noticed? Dude's reported about-count
'em- _two_ problems, which is how many I
have getting Vista to come out of sleep mode
(My two are also pretty rare).
(For the aficionado, black screen: Reason
unknown and yellow green screen: The BIOS
doesn't like for the USB drive to have a blank
disk.)
Score: 0
|This comment is perhaps more appropriate for the initial post, however too lazy to go back to that one.
This particular rig is a Sony Vaio VGNZ48GDX, 2x128SSD's in raid 0 (factory spec's), Intel P9700 2.8ghz & Nvidia GS 9300. It took me the better part of 2 days (in real hours perhaps 16) to get this piece of garbage working properly doing an upgrade.
I cannot place blame on anyone other than the proprietary nature of Sony junk, it was frustrating to such an extent, this machine has the carbon fibre chassis, I have managed to hit it so hard have actually put a bow in the chassis & touch pad, took six hits with the side of the clenched fist to do it!
Bottom line, W7 is now working a treat, I guess the old adage "if it doesn't fit, use a bigger hammer", is the operative term.
If you were to look at my previous posts re W7, initial install was on a Dell XPS M1530, and the RC install is still rocking away with nary an issue.
Score: 0
|This time I have to agree with PC_Tool. The two headlines implied that Windows 7 upgrades are traumatic when it is a minor occurrence. I'm glad you want to help people not wasting their time, data and sanity but there should be better headlines to express this. IMO you're desperately wanting attention with those headlines you made.
Score: 0
|I have to admit, negative headlines draw the masses. Not to mention, it can always be spun 1 of 2 ways:
1) We're warning the public of potential pitfalls they *could* encounter
2) We really hate product X and want you to know why you should too.
I don't know Scott's stand on MS vs other OS choices, but it the article he does specifically say that, overall, Windows 7 does a 'pretty good job' at doing what it should. As with any new OS, there are always hiccups on the path. Especially when you take an OS such as Windows and design it to work on the almost infinite combinations of hardware in existence.
Are there things users should be wary of when 'upgrading', certainly. That is true for ANY OS. However, this should not deter a dissatisfied Vista user from making the move to Windows 7 - they will not be disappointed (once they get over any initial hiccups - if they run into any. I certainly did not).
Score: 0
|I should mention many companies had working drivers early in the beta of windows 7. For a company to not have drivers by now means they dont care about there customers. Hauppage i guess has bad customer service in this case. They had a year to do what most all other companies did.
Score: 0
|The only people who upgrade are those who have no idea what they are doing anyway. I did a fresh install and was up and running in like 30 mins.
Score: -2
|Put another one in the column of "don't upgrade, install fresh". Things simply work better. And you get rid of clutter.
Score: 0
|"someone takes the time to rewrite the drivers,"
Therein lies the problem and separates the REAL companies from the ones that are just there to push 'new' or rather 'different' products...sometimes simply re-badged for money. I bet some of these companies LOVE when a new OS is released, because it gives them an excuse to have people go out to buy new products from them, products which often consist of the same hardware components with very minimal changes to specs.
Some people ask me why I'm so hell set on buying logitech products, and the truth of the matter is that it's one of the only peripheral and accessories selling companies that make and update drivers for products that have been out for years. If I buy a $200 Logitech device that has specific software required, I can rest assured that in 5 years when Windows 9 or 10 is coming up, it will still work.
Drivers are a tricky thing, period. And you really save yourself when you deal with a manufacturer that stresses the importance of updating them frequently, and for a long time (like AV products).
I try to buy my other products accordingly. I check motherboard and video card websites constantly to see the update frequency of drivers and software.
Score: 1
|Yeah the world needs 80MB mouse drivers, and webcam apps that push their own silly services.
Score: 0
|It's better than buying a product in January and not being able to use it properly in December because the drivers aren't updated. In a world of 2TB hard drives, 80MB is really not a huge deal.
Score: 0
|You can't really blame MS because a company doesn't update drivers. Proprietary driver code can't be anticipated, which is why vendors get early access.
Score: 0
|Also, if the device is popular enough, Microsoft will include their versions of the drivers on the installation disc... and if they didn't have time to include it, it will most likely be available through Windows Update (a source of drivers that I'm becoming more and more impressed with as the years go by).
Score: 0
|"Microsoft will include their versions of the drivers on the installation disc..."
I have never heard of Microsoft writing their own drivers for another companies product. Do you have a source for this? As far as I know, *all* drivers included with the installation media are provided to Microsoft for inclusion by the manufacturer.
Score: 0
|I guess my source is Device Manager itself.
I should have clarified that Microsoft does not, nor should be expected to, write and provide device-specific drivers... unless it's for Microsoft's own hardware, of course (mice, keyboards, game pads, etc.). I never actually meant to imply that Microsoft writes specific drivers for another company's product.
I'm running Windows 7 Ultimate x64. I have a Logitech G5 mouse (to name one example). I've not installed any software or drivers obtained from Logitech's site, though it works perfectly as-is. It's as smooth and responsive as it ever was with Logitech's own drivers, and all buttons work as I expect them to, with no need for further customization.
Device Manager shows the device as an HID-Compliant Mouse... driver provider: Microsoft. It's a driver written by Microsoft to handle a wide range of mice that comply with that standard.
Similarly, there is a Texas Instruments 1394 OHCI Compliant Host Controller... driver provider: Microsoft. Same scenario applies with USB Host Controllers. Microsoft writes their own driver to communicate with and operate devices that comply with their respective standard, regardless of the manufacturer of the device in question.
Of course, as I'm sure you know, the device manufacturer will sometimes offer software or drivers that may add additional or enhanced functionality (above and beyond what Microsoft's drivers provide) for the device in question, and it's up to the user to determine if that is necessary.
There are plenty of other devices that Windows 7 installed automatically on my particular system, with no intervention on my part. For example... the NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GTX+, or the NVIDIA nForce RAID Controller, or the NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller... Driver provider: NVIDIA Corporation. The Silicon Image SiI 3132 SATALink Controller... Driver provider: Silicon Image.
Of course, I may be completely wrong and way off in left field on this. That's what a healthy discussion and debate is for, no? =)
Score: 0
|"driver provider: Microsoft. "
Provider!=developer.
If I am not mistaken, all drivers that ship with the installation media list Microsoft as the provider. The one's you list as provided by their respective companies were likely updated through Windows Update. ;)
Score: 0
|Correction:
Provider!(always)=developer.
I've installed Windows plenty of times without an Internet connection, and Vista / 7 will automatically load a combination of drivers provided by both Microsoft and other vendors.
There are multiple types of drivers that operate at different levels. The ones that I am referring to are kernel mode class/miniclass drivers, typically implemented by Microsoft to operate a bus with multiple devices with similar basic functionality on that particular bus:
http://msdn.microsoft.co...s/library/aa490242.aspx
"A function driver can be written by the device vendor or by Microsoft. In this example, the function driver (the HID class/HID USB miniclass driver pair) is written by Microsoft."
Those can be and are written by Microsoft. Who else but Microsoft should or would submit a single driver designed to operate numerous similar devices from multiple vendors? Granted, they often offer limited, generic functionality... but that's what they're designed to do, and nothing more.
Hopefully you will find MSDN a reliable source. =)
Score: 0
|MSDN? Bah...bunch of crackheads. :p
We all know that Wikipedia is the source, store, and birthplace of all human knowledge.
Sheesh...
Thanks for clearing that up. I'd never really looked into it. I had figured the "system devices" BS was all MS stuff for lower level OS malarkey (And things like the default Video driver/etc if nothing better was available or detected), but didn't realize they'd implemented more than that themselves.
Score: 1
|"MSDN? Bah...bunch of crackheads."
Funny you should mention that... I got a 5 oz. rock with my subscription. ;-)
Score: 1
|I know, right? All I got from TechNet was a stupid T-s***.... (Why is it filtering "s h i r t"?)
Score: 0
|Not sure... it is a bit wonky. It filters "s h i f t" also.
Score: 0
|In my case, neither the Win7 beta or RC recongnized my Hauppage card - however the RTM recongnized it just fine and Media Center had no problem working with the card. For the RTM I am using the 64 bit version. Works great.
Score: 0
|