To bad that most Best Buy employees have no clue about the products that they sell.

They obviously have more of a clue that you do, as it's easy to see that HD DVD never stood a chance...

http://www.gamesindustry...tent_page.php?aid=33064

You such an as$. That is a general statement since for the most part they are clueless about products that they sell. I know that there are some BB employees so lets say it this way. The Best Buys in my area the employees for the most part have no idea about most of the products that they are selling, not all but most.

When there is no competition who wins, it isn't the consumer!!

like how DVD had competition?...riiiiggghhht....

you're just pissed because you dislike Sony...which is stupid...

Yeah... and suppose I have a friend that deceives and lies to me, bullies and uses strong-arm tactics to get what he wants, is arrogant, makes false promises that he rarely makes good on, and doesn't care whatsoever about what I want.

Eh, but I still keep him around, because disliking him would be stupid... *sigh*

People that genuinely dislike Sony have very good reason to.

DVD did have competition: VHS. And as you've pointed out numerous times, it took 7 years for it to overtake that format.

Agreed, and what amazes me the most is that no matter how many people keep telling them this, they just don't seem interested in listening. They keep making the exact same types of mistakes over and over and over again.

It really makes you wonder what is wrong with these people? It doesn't take a Ph.D in organizational management to figure out that at some point, if you want to be a successful company, you really do need to start LISTENING to your customers. They are more than willing to tell you exactly what it is that you are doing wrong and what you need to do fix it - free of charge! All you have to do is listen!

Why is this always such a hard concept for large companies like Sony to grasp? Their smaller competitors sure seem to be able to figure that one out pretty quick.

Come on guys, this is Business School 101 type stuff here, it isn't rocket surgery! Easy math.

Maybe it's the check they get from Sony every week that causes them to continue to ignore the facts presented to them.

I suspect that 80% of them (if "them" is even appropriate) or greater are paid to sell Sony or BluRay.

Hasn't Best Buy pretty much been recommending blu-ray all along?

Every store I've been in certainly favors it. And most salesguys are blu-ray supporters.

I hear alot of talk about "features,blah, etc.".. when I buy dvd(any type any format) I only want ONE feature..the "movie playback",the only one that matters!!!

Bring on the Blu-Ray, then watch me buy standard DVD's. When HD-DVD is no longer an option and a Blu-Ray Profile 5.2 player is $129 in 5 years, then I'll think about it. Until then the Toshiba HD-DVD up-converts very well to my 46" 1080i TV.

I have both format and while I am sorry that HD DVD is dying so fast, it's business. Pay to play or not Sony took a huge gamble with Blu-ray and their PS3 and it seems to be paying off. No one can ignore 5 million plus potential Blu-ray players in the market. I would like to see pricing lower, but I will most likely purchase another PS3 for the Blu-ray functionality. So, hate Sony or like them, they pulled it out and they will recover enough to salvage their PS3 losses.

5 million? sony moved 10.5 million consoles in 2007....

You really seem to have a knack for inflating numbers.

i apologize...they have moved 10.5 million units since launch....which includes 3.57 million from fiscal year 2006....

http://www.sony.net/Sony...ncial/fr/07q3_eleki.pdf

Don't forget to mention the PS3 sold a million in the UK quicker than the PS2 and 360 did (only the GameCube Mk2 actually selling quicker).

http://www.gamesindustry...tent_page.php?aid=33064

You fan boys must really have no life to care so much about numbers. I have all the systems and both formats and frankly could give a crap about who is selling what. You both sound like 12 year olds with mine is better than yours for God sake relax and enjoy life a little.

HAHAHA

"the cheapest HD DVD player is $149.99, while the cheapest Blu-ray player is $399.99"

ANALOGY:

This is like having a PS3 and Nintendo 64 on shelves for sale...of course HD DVD is cheap...IT'S DEAD!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Which is probably why I can get all those laserdiscs for $2 :P But it's more a collectors thing. Those massive covers... :) That and spinning up a 25 year old device. like what players out there will ever last 25 years? Simply not done anymore.

Amen! :)

I still play my Laserdiscs occasionally.

So by the end of the year when these "profile 2" standalones come out why do i see yet another lawsuit against sony that will eat into their profits again????? Either Sony are run by idiots or they just plain and simply hold the consumer in such contempt they dont give a rats ass. Thats the plain and simple logic here

"Our decision to shine a spotlight on Blu-ray Disc players and other Blu-ray products is a strong signal to our customers that we believe Blu-ray is the right format choice for them,"

Let's correct that, shall we?

"Our decision to shine a spotlight on Blu-ray Disc players and other Blu-ray products is a strong signal to our customers that Sony and the BDA paid us a lot of money to help them decide FOR the customers instead of giving them a choice"

There, that's better.

"Our decision to shine a spotlight on Blu-ray Disc players and other Blu-ray products is a strong signal to our customers that we believe Blu-ray is the right format choice for them,"

I'll help

"Our decision to shine a spotlight on Blu-ray Disc players and other Blu-ray products is a strong signal to our customers that we believe Blu-ray is the right format choice for them since millions of people were forced to pick up Blu ray with a purchase of trojanstation 3"

At least, thanks to HD DVD, blu ray prices are more reasonable now, even though at 399$, their devices are still crippled with no next-generation features such as PiP, network, etc.

i'll help too.

"Our decision to shine a spotlight on Blu-ray Disc players and other Blu-ray products is a strong signal to our customers that they were right in believing that Blu-ray is the right format choice for them, and that we share in your disbelief at how idiotic hddvd supporters have been since january 4th, maybe this will make them shut up already"

Anyone noticed the HD DVD fanboys keep crying foul about payoffs, with no proof, yet the Paramount payoff is well documented..

Really? Where?

Do you honestly think that the Bluray format won by being superior? They bought a win, that is business and that is how you get things done. This had nothing to do with the better format, exclusive support from studios and stores boils down to incentives.

Amen to that!

Anyone notice that the Sony shills are in full force?

i know i'm new to this site but are comments temporary? i'm only saying because ben had posted a link to a story about universal but now i can't find it. Also, i have noticed some comments disappear.

so what gives?

Hi Homer, firstly welcome to BetaNews, its always a great joy to have a distinguished guest join our beloved discussions. Allow me to introduce myself, I am Mark GiIIespie (that’s Gi as in Government Issue, II as in “the second” es is Spanish for “it is” and pie as in apple pie, I like pie and this month I was allowed to eat one. In answer to your intriguing observation… comments are only temporary when written by folks suffering from monothematic dementia.

-- Mark

LOL

ROFL!!! Thank you for making my day.

??????????

Ben, so im not the only one confused with that reply!

Mark, hey listen. i appreciate the attempt there buddy, but what the hell are you talking about pie? pie? what the hell is that! i really don't care what you do to your american pies, i have that movie and that is pretty disgusting. i don't want to know.

Wow...I never cease to be amazed at the Sony fanboys inability to grasp their tiny little minds around a joke lol.

You've lost a story?
Linked to an article that is obviously full of crap but since it supported your stance you approved of it? I can only assume you were linking to a ‘rumor’ sourced from a blog talking up universals apparent switch to blu-ray this Friday?

Many reasons your comments disappear. There have been people in the past on the blu-ray side of things engage in decent conversation here and had no problems. Problem is they tend to get drowned out by people screaming the same crap again and failure to understand others – which in turn makes the whole side look bad. You would do great to use some restraint when you post your comments

Who cares, they were both born to live a life in dusty corners.

Oh my GOD! What a JOKE! Are you kidding me? This is just too much. Is there no end to the list of companies that Sony is willing to buy off with back-room cash payments?

Can you say Pay-ola? Can you say pay-to-play?

I can't belive that Best Buy is actually caving in and making this move. This looks HIGHLY suspect and seriously hurts their credibility.

The really funny thing here is that HD DVD players are soundly outselling ALL the Blu-ray players at Best Buy. This is even more pronounced since Toshiba dropped the price of their HD DVD players.

The significantly overpriced $399+ Blu-ray players sit on the shelf and collect dust while the $149 HD DVD players fly off the shelves daily.

If it wasn't so obvious what was really happening here this would almost be funny. Instead, it is just plain sad.

That's OK though, there are plenty other resellers out there that will still be stocking (and selling) the HD DVD players...you know...the ones that actually provide a good VALUE to the customers...the ones that customer actually WANT to buy.

Amazing. Now I have seen everything. What little credibility Best Buy had with its customer base is not entirely shot.

oh please...HD movie sales have been overwhelmingly in favor of blu-ray....not even a single week in 2007 did HD-DVD outsell bluray...Toshiba players are so cheap because they are trying to undercut the market to save their dead format...they are taking HUGE hits on each unit sold....

the really REALLY funny thing is watching the faces of all those people who bought the reduced price HD-DVD players when they realize that they can only get Universal and Paramount movies for their players...

Want to have some fun on a Saturday afternoon some day when you have some free time on your hands? Walk into ANY Best Buy in the country and stand where they have the Blu-rays and the HD-DVD players for sale. Watch for about one to two hours and count how many of each players actually sell and go out the door.

You likely won't see a single Blu-ray player move but you will see anywhere from one to three HD DVD players go out in that same time frame (if they aren't already sold out by the time you get there).

This same situation was the case before Toshiba dropped the price on their HD DVD players and it is even more pronounced now that they have cut prices.

Amazing how companies "line up" behind the format that is way over priced and isn't moving off the store shelves, isn't it? If that doesn't tell you that there is some very serious "pay-to-play" money changing hands behind the scenes, nothing will.

Don't believe me? Go into any Best Buy and watch for yourself. You'll see.

you want me to do what? Go to a best buy on a Saturday and stand in front of the video section for 3-4 hours.

what kind of a loser do you think i am. why do this? what kind of a loser are you. is this the thinking of an hddvd nut?

why stop at looking. lets all hold hands and protest in front of the store. hold a sit-in and sing cumbaya.

people are being FOOLED into buying players by the cheap price...they don't realize that by June nobody will be releasing movies in that format....explain away the fact that BD outsold HD-DVD more than 2:1 over 2007 and it has been more like 4:1 since the warner anouncement...

It is simple really. Sony forced Blu-Ray down peoples throats with the PS3. Blu-Ray didn't start selling more until the PS3 came out. Also people are being FOOLED into buying obsolete Blu-Ray players. Guess that's "just business" huh?

Well, you may not know what kind of a loser you are, but I am certain I know what kind of a loser I am! I am the kind of loser that can back up his arguments with verifiable observations and readily available evidence! THAT's that kind of loser I am!

Now, if you want to know what type of a fool I am, well, then that is an entirely different question all together.

(Sorry, I just couldn't resist, how often do you really ever get a chance to totally rip yourself to shreds like that? It was just too much fun to pass up.)

He's basically suggesting that you stand in his shoes for a while and observe what he sees on a daily basis, 'Professor'. He works there.

We got an email from netflix that they were phasing out HD yesterday. It was a sad day, but that's business.

I'm still waiting for bluray players and media to get to the DVD price point before I switch (my hd-dvd upconverting works just fine for now).

I wonder how long it will be before Toshiba begin selling Blu-ray players…..

It's ironic, but if they did they'd probably be of a pretty decent quality. Take a look at their DVD players for proof...

Tis ironic, but if the trend continues then they will have no alternative. Just as Sony felt the bitter irony in 1988 having to release their own VHS decks. No issues about quality though, Toshiba is a solid brand.

Toshiba would probably do a better job at producing blu-ray players than most others :)

Netflix also said they are getting rid of HD-DVD rentals within six months.

It's over all right. I can admit it, I am gracious in defeat. Some people can't even be gracious in victory however. Losers.

Hey jackass Benjamin, what is the cheapest 2.0 BD set top player right now? I am too lazy to find out for myself and I know you know.

And don't answer with the word Sony, any brand but Sony.

lol, it may be over but i wont admit it just yet.

hey benny im waiting for the answer...

wait...isn't Warner going HD-DVD exclusive at CES this year?....oh wait....

sorry Hollywood...had to take one last stab at ya...

if you are looking for a 2.0 player...for the time being stick with your PS3....

as far as stand alone players are concerned the one i've got circled is the Panasonic BD50....it has yet to release...but it will be 2.0 compliant, and unless Sony steps up and at least offers confirmation of upcoming DTS:MA support on the PS3 real soon then ill be going with a stand alone player as well and retiring the PS3 to solely gaming...as of now many BD's have PCM tracks which the PS3 can handle just fine, but as DTS:MA becomes more and more popular Sony needs to step up to the plate....

if money is not really an option than I think the BD50 is what you are going to want to look at...the BD30 is a GREAT player, its just profile 1.1...

"if you are looking for a 2.0 player...for the time being stick with your PS3...."

Awesome. Good thing the format with the UNFINISHED SPEC won, eh? It's pretty sad when you have to Trojan horse your format with a game console in order to force a victory. Then when people who are not interested in a gaming system at all come looking for a real top set player, you got nothing to give them. Sure, they could buy a 1.0/1.1 player and get screwed in typical Sony fashion. But hey, I'm sure Sony will eventually release a 2.0 player at an incredible price point. I'll guess $699 for a standard model and $999-$1499 for the high end.

Yes, ps3 is the only bluray player able to have next generation contents that Hd dvd has from day 1, but in exchange of poorer quality built... The bluray lens on the PS3 is cheap, and the more you use it, the faster it "breaks".

And that's excatly what HD DVD fanboys like yourself fail to understand.

IF YOU WANT QUALITY, YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.

Sure you can buy substandard 1080i tat, but it's cheap and nasty rubbish.

there have been ZERO confirmed reports or even rumors that the PS3 laser wears out from watching BD's....i think you are confusing the PS3 with launch PS2's....where watching a lot of DVD's could have that affect....the PS3 is still one of the better High Def players out there....sure there are many that are better...but it is a solid player that offers a very solid A/V platform....the MS HD-DVD add on is a cheap player...the $149 HD-DVD stand alone is a cheap player....the PS3 is not....

show me proof that the PS3 laser is "cheap"

blu-ray was the reason the PS3 was delayed in the first place, as well as the cause of its initial cost....

want some cheese with that whine?

The HD DVD/Xbox fanboys are getting REALLY desperate now, and resorting to making stuff up.

If you want to talk cheap, crappy and unreliable, look no further than an Xbox 360...

LMAO!!! Yes it is rubbish unless you get overhyped 1080p that most people couldn't even distinguish from 720p/1080i.

LOL! True...true.

but don't look at it for too long as you might catch on fire. RROD, wow, people actually buy that crap?

Catch on fire that is really a load of crap.

Sony wouldn't now quality if it bit them in the as$.

you want to know what is a load of crap, how about a 40% failure rate on RRODbox 360!

Is it a prerequisite to be able to over-inflate statistics to be a Sony/PS3/Blu-ray zombie?

Oh geez... here comes Aredo. *sigh* :)

Yes. Yes it is.

Here...I have an extra set of earplugs...

What is a piece of crap Sony being taken to court to address the PS2 read problems and not fessing up to the problem. MS is at least helping the consumers unlike Sony. I will not be shocked if something similar starts happening with the PS3. So far the system appears pretty solid and hopefully it will stay that way. Didn't they also have tons of problems with the PS1? How does putting disks in the system placing it upside down in order to read disks hit ya. Oh yeah only MS makes mistakes. What a load of crap saying that MS is the only one to make a mistake.

Your comments are that of a blind Sony shill, troll nothing more nothing less.

You admit the 40% failure rate is a load of crap?
Have you finally come to realise these things would not be selling as well as they are if almost half of them broke?

Now is it over?

even you people have to admit that its over! I mean come on. seriously. its over right? honestly. seriously. its done right? this is BEST BUY here. not woolworths or whatever other little retailer dumped hddvd weeks agao. BEST freaking BUY! honestly, done right? really, like done right?

NEVER!!!
ok maybe so....oh idk

Who's saying it isnt over?

Well, go figure a CEO saying he would promote a product with a higher profit margin than another cheaper one. Thats news... NOT

That's business. I would love to know how much Sony had to pay to buy off Fox, Warner, Best Buy, Blockbuster, and Netflix...

they didn't have to pay off anyone more than Toshiba has been paying off Universal and Paramount....there have not even been rumors of payoffs in any case other than Warner...Toshiba paid off Paramount, Sony paid off Warner...if Sony hooked the bigger fish then that is just business...

"they didn't have to pay off anyone more than Toshiba has been paying off Universal and Paramount....there have not even been rumors of payoffs in any case other than Warner...Toshiba paid off Paramount, Sony paid off Warner...if Sony hooked the bigger fish then that is just business..."

Typical rabid Sony fan attitude. Toshiba supposedly pays someone off and the Sony jackals can't STFU about it and it's apparently the most horrible thing EVER. Then when Sony does the same thing, it's fine, because two wrongs make a right and "is just business"

Errm nothing, the Blu-ray sales did the selling.

If it makes you feel better, carry on thinking that, but the reality is, with 80% of the market, no payoffs were needed.

You mean no more payoffs were needed...

Not quite. HD-DVD sold more hardware while Blu-ray sold more movies, and up until Sony slipped Warner a little money under the table that trend was continued. Why else would any of these retailers or movie studios be pushing Blu-ray so hard? When they sell maybe one BRD to 50 DVDs.

not when you count the 10.5 million PS3's out there...and don't say PS3 owners don't buy BD's....i own almost 40 and use the PS3 as my BD player...if nobody is buying BD stand alones, yet Blu-ray outsells HD-DVD EASILY every week in movie sales...somebody must be buying the movies...and guess what? its the PS3 owners...

what is it with you people and payoffs? do yo think years from now people are going to be saying, damn those payoffs? NO. they will be saying, do you remember that other format, what was it called again?

Two nails in a row in one day. Can't get any better than that. Excellent news!

Yes, excellent news (if you are the CEO of a multi-million dollar electronics company and you want to screw the consumers over and do what is best for your profit margins and corporate control of a market, not what is best for the consumer)

Once yet again big business wins...and the consumer loses.

"Once yet again big business wins...and the consumer loses."

That's okay, you don't have to buy into it. I have no intentions of buying a BD player until they drop to $149 or lower, and since I can't see that happening any time soon, Sony can suck my big hairy ones.

Errrr...wrong! Consumers won on this as the majority of us have chosen the BLU pill over red. If you look at the news almost everyday since Warner's embrace to the BLU side, there is always a company that goes BD exclusive. How many HD DUD stores and/or companies have gone exclusive in the last three months? NONE. Enough said.

Yes, enjoy your non-finished, non-upgradeable, rushed to market before it was really finished due to competitive pressures blu pill.

As time goes on you will start to realize just how bitter of a "pill" that actually was to swallow, even if you don't realize it yet.

You must be talking about HD DUD players. I do have both a PS3 and a Toshiba A3. The reason I got a POS Tosh is because it is a bday gift from last year. In comparison, Toshiba HD DUD player takes sooo long to boot up, it skips most of the time, it has a long pause when skipping chapters and the built-in memory is soo lame that you cannot even download the full download content of the Transformers movie on HD DUD version. It says, "Not enough memory space". What a lame piece of crap! The PS3 on the other hand boots up less than 10 seconds, tons of disk space to store extra stuff, never skips and its BD 2.0 ready. The 5 HD DUD promo took four months to receive. BD 5 movie promo is in my doorstep within 60 days. Talking about non-finished, non upgreadable, rushed stuff, speak for HD DUD players, not BD. Look at the Xbox 360 HD DUD add-on, it does not even come with HDMI. If MickeySoft is so smart, they should've made the HD drive built-in, not to have to pay extra. Give me a freakin break. USB!? Pfft. Not to mention their primary console has overheating problems which MickeySoft has to issue a public apology.

Who has the piece of crap, unfinished, player now?

you sound bitter kid. of course YOU feel like as a consumer YOU were screwed.

BUT ITS YOUR OWN FAULT! you are the one that allowed hddvd screw you from behind because you picked them. you are the idiot that fell for the stupid "cheaper players" and "standalone sales" sales pitch. you should feel screwed, but blame yourself!

The stand alone players are unfinished you twit.

And the HD DUD players are? Yeah....riiight.

Well, I don't own either format of player so I can't actually feel screwed at all. However, I do feel sorry for the consumer that get lied to by manufacturers and then publicly say things like "They knew what they were getting into". I feel sorry for those people. Who wouldn't? Oh, other than the greedy companies that tricked them and pulled the wool over their eyes, of course. They are now laughing all the way to the bank.

I wonder if they'll still be laughing on the way to the courts once more class-action lawsuits start rolling in.

I hate to break this to ya, but claiming that the 'majority' of a vast minority isn't THAT impressive.

HD media sales accounted for less than 1% of total disc sales last year.

EDIT: It's kind of funny that you choose to use a Matrix reference, in regards to this, considering that the trilogy is only available on HD DVD...

Wow...what a load of misinformation.

1-The A3 (like the A2) takes less than 30 seconds to go from pressing the start button, to having the movie on the screen. If your's takes longer, you recieved a defective unit (it does happen occasionally), and should exchange it. The same goes for skipping or stuttering at chapter changes (providing the disc isn't scratched all to hell); as well as the memory issue that you claim to have. I have the same model and have experienced NONE of the issues you seem to have had.

2- The PS3 may be able to be upgraded to Profile 2.0, but it begs the question of why this was neccesary in the first place. The features that 2.0 (and 1.1) offer have been available and WORKING on HD DVD since the day it was released. No need to upgrade it, since it was a finished spec and product at launch.

3. The 360's add-on may not have HDMI, but as many knowledgeable people will tell you, HDMI is not required for an hd picture. The difference between 1080i/p is all but indistinguishable to the average consumer. A 1080i picture over component is pretty damn good.

4. MickeySoft? LOL...at least you were original with that one.

" Who has the piece of crap, unfinished, player now?" Every single Blu-ray owner. Yes that includes PS3 owners, too, since the update to make it 2.0 compliant hasn't been released yet.

Look at the above post from pride and learn.

Misinformation? Listen to yourselves.

1. Piece of crap! Why my POS Tosh HDUD player failed is because of cheap parts. That's why it costs sooo cheap, it can pass on the store shelves on 99 cents Store. Cheap parts mean it breaks more often. You just got lucky on yours. Why do you think there are alot of returns on HD DUD players? It's not becuase that they are cheap, they break easy and consumers are fed up with it (not to mention that they know that it is a dead technology). If you want to invest, invest wisely on a good product, not something that fails in day one.

2. It's not a 'may', it's for sure. You are right on HD DUD being 2.0 already but what one of the reasons why it is also an unfinished product is because it is a rushed item. Why does HD DUD media discs cannot hold the same amount of data as BD? It is a rush. Why is that their parts break all the time? Because it is built with cheap hardware. Why do they have a major return? Because all of the above I just mentioned.

3. I hear you there. HDMI gives you a cleaner cable solution instead of having a clutter. The pic and sound quality on HDMI vs component with optical audio is the same. MickeySoft did not understand this. Why? They want to go cheap and not offer options. Instead, they have to release the so-called xbox 360 elite version. Even that does not come with built-in HD DUD player. They cannot even get it right the 2nd time. Pfft.

Bottom line: Statistically speaking, with all the returns and breakdowns, HD DUD players are the unfinished player. Check the stats and news, they will tell ya.

Yeah, you mean my reply to pride.

1. If I 'just got lucky' so did quite a few other people out there, including the reviewers who made the same statements that I did. I won't deny returns occuring with the HD-A2 (and 3), but if you pay attention, most began happening right after the Warner announcement.

In regards to my 'investment': I happen to own both formats (the PS3, and 1 each HD-A2/3). I'm not just spouting off for the sake of doing so. My preference to HD DVD comes from using them both, not a herd mentality.

2. This has been widely publicized, but I'll say it again. HD DVD's specs were finalized prior to being released. Each player released conforms to those specs (as opposed to blu-ray, who have the profile steps; and what's obviously issues with manufacturers adhering to those specs...Samsung).

The reason that HD DVDs don't hold as much as a BD?...They don't need to. HD DVD has managed to pull off 1080p, the advanced audio codecs, interactivity, extra features, PIP, and web content on a 30gb disc.

For all of the bragging and chest thumping about BR's superior capacity, the only thing that they've truly used it for is uncompressed audio. If this space is such a boon, why are most of Spider-man 3's special features on a second disc? The answer is simple: uncompressed audio (which as most AVI enthusiasts will tell you, takes up a s***-ton of space, and is unneccesary in light of lossless audio codecs).

3. You're right...MS didn't include HDMI in the original specs for the 360, because (as we've both stated), it's unneccesary for an HD picture. It was only when consumers demanded it, did they include it.

An internal HD DVD drive is another issue, and frankly I'm not sure that including it would be a good idea, when you consider the other well-documented problems that the console has had.

I'd be interested in seeing these numbers concerning HD DVD players breaking down, I can't seem to find anything reliable.

That really sucks that you got cheap parts in your Toshiba player.
Toshiba make good quality hardware - something most blu-ray backers will admit.

Best Buy also recommends Monster Cables to give you the complete HD experience. The difference though is that you won't have to upgrade the cables later so you're only getting hosed once.

Why do you have to upgrade Blu-ray later? Profile 2.0 players are on sale now, and Profile 1.0 and Profile 1.1 player works the same as they have always done. Do you need me to explain in simpleton language?

what standalone is currently 2.0? from what i read from denonjeff at avs a couple weeks ago he state the 2.0 isn't even finalized yet so how can you state anything as being 2.0?

LOL!!!!

Cough bulls*** cough

There isn't a single 2.0 player on the market right now.

And don't respond with "PS3". Until it recieves the update, allowing for 2.0 features to be used, it too is just 1.1 player.

"what standalone is currently 2.0?"

There are none. This is just more propaganda nonsense from the resident Sony jackass.

No, but explaining in truthful language would be a nice change of pace for you...

Profile 2.0 players on sale now? Oookay...

I swear, you are the only person here who doesn't wait for someone else to discredit what you say. You do it to yourself constantly.

Well I can buy the Panasonic DMP-BD50 where I live, it's a BD-Live player.

http://panasonic.co.jp/p...global/blu-ray/dmp-bd50/

Thank you for that... I stand corrected.

It's good to finally see one available, and it looks like a very nice player indeed... supporting decoding and bitstream (yes!) output of all the HD audio formats available (even optional ones).

The only feature I would personally like to see included on that player is multi-channel analog outputs, but oh well... can't win 'em all, I suppose.

Good to finally see a fully featured standalone player on the market.

EDIT, actually cant find it anywhere. And according to blu-ray.com its not due out in EU until end of march/april - and in japan around a simular time.
I dont think you can buy this where you live..... its not even made for retail yet.

"On the store's Web site, the cheapest HD DVD player is $149.99, while the cheapest Blu-ray player is $399.99."

What has that got to do with anything? Or this another attempt at putting your own opinion inro news?

there's nothing but fact in that sentence. draw your own opinion, which you obviously have.

i was wondering that too. It came from nowhere. Almost like it wanted to point out that fact as a last effort to make people forget what they just read.

its called a comparison.

It's called screwing the customer you can count on prices staying high now that HD is out of the picture. Kind of like UMD and high prices.

I can see tons of law suits coming along against BD makers as people find they can't play newer movies on their machines. Then the thing that will happen is as the law suits come like a domino effect more people will buy HD-DVD and stores like BB will say "bring in your BD and we'll exchange it for an HD-DVD player" to save their asses. Probably won't happen but its a nice thought. :)

Who knows maybe this is why Toshiba isn't giving up because they foresee law suits happening. Thats what people do now a days, sue companies. Look at Sony and the exploding batteries, and Ford and their tire problem. This could end up being a big mess and HD-DVD could be there to clean it up.

They've been doing this all along....

Maybe nobody was listening to the guys in blue s***s before, so Best Buy decided to make it official? :)

kind of what i was thinking been to 2 different bestbuys in montana and they pretty much chase you away if you even look at a hd-dvd player been like that since before the warner switch

I was going to say the same thing...they have always prefered blu-ray.

Well, if you were a retailer, what would you rather sell more of: a ~$150 or ~$450 unit?

that argument only works if wholesale cost of the items is the same....

*laughs*

Well, that would depend on the markup. If the $450 wholesales for $400 while the $150 wholesales for $70, I'd rather sell more of the $150 units.

But really, it doesn't even enter into it.

Over $200 and you hit a wall. Most consumers will avoid those purchases until the last possible moment. You will sell more of the $150 unit than you will of the $450 until regardless of quality.

good for them. they are doing a good service chasing people away from hddvd. i hope you thanked them.

Thats a good point.

the price point is pretty moot as we debate this....what were the prices of DVD players this early in the game back in the late 90's?....REALLY high....prices will always come down....prices on both sides of the HDM battle have come down WAY faster than I had ever imagined....i didn't think i would even be considering a BD stand alone for a couple years....but i might jump on the Panasonic BD50 the day it releases....

I experienced the same thing at the Knoxville BB...until I asked if the Blu-ray players had access to the same features that HD DVD did.

I don't think that they deal with too many customers who know what they're talking about, going from their responses.

yes but are they also not warning the customers about the potential for playback issues with 2.0 disc's? that's my whole point they are more than willing to scare away customers over studio support but god forbid they give customers any clue about profiles

I get similar responses from most of the associates in my local Best Buy. Aside from the usual tired "larger capacity" crap, they're clueless. One seemed to jump at the opportunity to inform me of the greater selection of Blu-ray titles available to choose from... and I love pointing out the fact the there still remains equal amounts of shelf space for Blu-ray and HD DVD titles in the very same store (which leads me to believe he never bothered to look). They still demo Blu-ray titles and samplers on PlayStation 3 consoles instead of a higher-end standalone that has better picture quality.

as a bestbuy employer, i've been pushing hddvd, or at least, i convince potential bluray adopters to not buy bluray unless they like getting screwed by Sony.

Dude, keep up, we weren't even talking about that.

Want to make 'em really squirm? Ask them if the standalone player is 2.0 while there are other 'interested' customers nearby. It's even better when you have to explain that detail to the sales clerk...

I can see it now, the 2.0 BD players come out and everyone that has a 1.0 will demand their money back or sue Sony, BB and the company who made their player. This could be a law suit ready to happen.

http://www.engadget.com/...fective-blu-ray-players/

Not because of profile issues, but if Samsung can get sued for this, "incompatible/obsolete" pre-2.0 players could end up a headache for several CE makers.

If you wish to buy Blu & don't want a PS3......WAIT!!! By XMAS 08, you should be safe.

I bought a car 6 months ago, it came with a cassette player. This years model car comes with a CD player.

Can I sue Ford? Of course not, because both cars drive on the road exactly the same.

Some people here are total idiots, and fail to understand basic concepts it seems.

As mentioned, it's one single guy pissed because a couple of fox movies don't work, and he can't be bothered to upgrade his firmware.

I so wished admin would finally shut this clown down. Unfortunately friction will only bring more page hits so won't happen any time soon...

Because I talk sense, not your fanboy nonsense?

unfortunately it's not nonsense the bda themselves admitted that earlier players could experience playback issues on 2.0 discs so there for they could be sued. not that it matters much to me i'll keep buying whatever hd-dvd's come along at a reasonable price and maybe in a year or so the bda will finally have something solid to offer at a reasonable price

Because you are a vulgar kid with banal opinions that waste my time and insult generic groups of readers in almost every post.

Fanboy? You fool.

"I bought a car 6 months ago, it came with a cassette player. This years model car comes with a CD player.

Can I sue Ford? Of course not, because both cars drive on the road exactly the same."

That's a terrible analogy.

A better analogy would be if you bought a CD player that claimed to play CD's from Sony, and then 6 months later new CD's didn't play on your CD player anymore...you would be pretty pissed.

Notice how I didn't try playing a CD in a casette player, just like you're not trying to play an HDDVD disc in a bluray player...you're just trying to play a bluray disc in a bluray player...now if you have a hard time doing that, there is something wrong (which is exactly what is going to happen).

Matter of fact, this has already happened, and is only the beginning:

http://www.betanews.com/...uray_players/1202765198

I'm not a fanboy of any company. I like quality and fairness and Sony doesn't do either. If Sony made a product that I really liked and saw was a good value then I'd buy it. I just haven't seen anything in the past 6+ years from them. Sony use to mean quality, you knew when you bought something from Sony you were getting something that would last and that was a good product. Panasonic use to be crap and now Panasonic is brining out some good products. Sony use to be a top company bringing out top products, but somewhere they lost that vision and became a vampire of a company.

Accually I can sue Ford. I just wont win.

No you talk mostly fanboy nonsense.

and now that the lawsuit is out, it encourages many others to follow his path.

Yeah that is really close to the same thing. What a load of crap.

You are too deluted to make sense. You always talk crap and everyone knows it except you.

Way to miss the point (but you seem to make a habit of that).

The cassette deck doesn't interfere with the operation of the car. On the other hand, the BR profiles can interfere with disc usage.

You may not care about the extra features, but IMO (and one that's shared by many), they are as important to a 'next gen' movie experience...along with the picture and audio quality.

I've said it before...with the rare exception, I won't buy another BR movie until they get the profile mess sorted out (and I own the PS3). I can wait patiently, until the BDA is capable of putting out the movies I want, with the features I enjoy; rather than get 'double-dipped' with each profile release (no, that hasn't happened...yet, but we all know that down the line it will. It's inevitable.).

It's a class action lawsuit...do you even know what that means?

I'll give you a hint...it includes more than one single guy.

The list of titles weren't mentioned, and it was already verified that Samsung was not releasing a firmware update.

How about actually reading the court ruling PDF in the link above...

Is hard facts causing you a problem?

The fact is, my analagy is correct. All existing players will play all future Blu-ray movies just fine. They may not play the extras, but then they were never designed to.

Is that concept soo diffucult to grasp?

No your "analogy" is not correct. It's more like them selling me a car with a cassette player after the CD already came out and them not telling me about it. Is it so difficult to grasp that people don't want to spend $400 on a player that is already obsolete? "They may not play the extras, but then they were never designed to." Definition: OBSOLETE Is that concept soo difficult to grasp?

I dread to think of the movies released as profile 1.0 that were bought up by PS3 owners, getting re-released with 1.1 and 2.0 features. Yeah, I'm speculating with this, but you just know that it's bound to happen...

"On the store's Web site, the cheapest HD DVD player is $149.99, while the cheapest Blu-ray player is $399.99."

Until the 1st price can be placed in front of the finished 2nd product (2.0 BD players starting @ $149), mass adoption--or my buying one, at least--will not occur.

I thought BB was already doing this.

Pretty much most locations, although my local one has had the same amount of shelf space for both discs for some time. The Blu side was usually more crammed tight, but I think that says more about # of titles than retail leanings.

At the moment, the number of titles is about equal. Remember, Warner will continue publishing in HD DVD until June.

with a 3 week delay. and some movies dont have as many features as the blu do.

The same situation at my local Best Buy. There is relatively equal amounts a shelf space for both HD DVD and Blu-ray... for a long time.