We have here in Finland some Blu-ray stations
and one HD-DVD, it's XBOX 360 HD DVD DRIVE.
Blu-ray stations cost here 430-780€.
XBOX 360 HD DVD Drive costs 163- 211€.

http://www.mbnet.fi/nettijatkot/2007/11/hd-asemat/

October 31st! PS3 profile 1.1 firmware coming in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ..... wait, what the hell am I thinnking? This is Sony.

We won't get it until March 2008. Yay Im glad I own a PS3.

This just in ..... Panasonic has just released thier "final standard" BD player for $499. It can now do ...... PIP. You better run out and get one, for $200 more than an A3, you have have 1080p and less than half the interactivity of HD-DVD. Provided the movie comes with those features, which most of them don't.

You can also spend $300 less and get an A2 if your TV does 1080p conversion from 1080i. Not that it matters, no one can tell the difference.

But I'm not here to shill HD-DVD .....

This is off topic but found it interesting. The high security Java + has been defeated and there is a new program soon to come out that will remove the app from disks. So much for that Sony. All the DRM crap has only created issues for the consumer. The pirates in the end will win no matter what. How many times did Sony change the PS2 to only have a new hack in a couple of days.

And you think that all that is the result of "hackers" and "pirates" effort ?
Who has earned more out of modchips proliferation? Who earns more out of the ability of people to copy everything ?
It's pretty obvious, the manufacturers in the first place. They are the first one not wanting DRM to exist, still they got to design those systems to get agreements due to a wide sprea schizophrenia in the industry preventing executive managers and CEOs from doing the right thing and just set the lowest possible prices on originals to ensure mass market adoption.
Since the BSA,MPAA,RIAA and all other lawyers money-eating useless burocactic machines started promoting their "anti-piracy" campaign around 15+ years ago prices for originals kept increasing to sky high levels.

True, the new DRM nazi's have no clue how many people are lining up to be the one who cracked the latest copy protection. That goes for HD-DVD and BD.

"The move put HD DVD below the $200 price point where analysts say high-definition DVD will begin to take off."

I can't see it, frankly (for either format).

People need an HDTV first before considering HD. There's still an awful lot of people with SDTV.

are there not many HD-DVD / Blue-ray drives under $200 out in the states?

I see a lot here in Japan...

I guess you dont live in japan. You never answered where you got your magical under $200 blu-ray drive the last time you brought it up some how about you show us the magic? Blu-ray is expensive here still.
You see a lot? Theres not even one... go back to whatever bulls*** forum you come from and think up something much better

All of this right before Warner Brothers tells BD to F off. BWAAAAAAAHHAHAAHHAAHAAHA!

Source? Links? Quotes?

I think you got your wires crossed, All the signs suggest Warner is about to go Blu-ray exclusive.

I doubt it.
I do find it amusing however that blu-ray group feels the need to fight back when they aparently already won. Seems they are starting to feel the heat

Yes, like WB not renewing thier BD license for 2008. I really don't care, I'll buy Warner on BD if I have to.

That's the difference between you and I, you are too stubborn or broke to support both formats. You and a lot of other people think you have to be part of something to feel important. I just want to watch movies in HD.

If you weren't part of the BD propaganda machine, what else would you do with your time? Perhaps you would play games on your PS3 that you obviously never use.

Pathetic.

Anyone who gets as upset as you over good news for a competing format is borderline retarded, there are more important things to complain about.

Well, October 31st is here, where's our profile 1.1 for the PS3? I'm waiting to download it myself ....... Dave?

Curry favor? What, do they want Indian food?

I work at a Best Buy store and about 25 people a day ask me "Who is going to win the HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray war?" I always respond with the same answer: neither one. What people don't realize, because they don't take the time to read the trade press, is that there are new, far more advanced, multi-layer technologies out in the wings waiting now that are nearly compleated that will be substantial advancements over both HD DVD and Blu-ray technology.

The future in this type of technology lies in adding multiple layers to discs. The discs we have now can do a couple of layers of data and get us to a max of about 50 GB of data per side of a disc. There are technologies almost ready to come to market by other companies that will take that same multi-layer recording concept and really run with it. Companies are testing technologies now that let discs contain as many as 50 or even 100 layers of data. That will take high def disc technology from the 15 to 50 GB per side level it is at now to the multiple terrabyte level. The next step beyoned HD DVD and Blu-ray won't be a small one, it will be a GIGANTIC one. It will be a massive leap forward that changes the entire landscape of the market.

Once that technology is brought to market, at relatively the same price points that we have now for High Def players it is expected, both HD DVD and Blu-ray player buyers will be kicking themselves for jumping on board too soon. And no, the new format will not be compatible with either of the two existing formats. It will require the purchase of an entirely new player because it will be based on a much more advanced laser system. And yes, there will only be ONE format. Thank GOD!

I am affraid that those that are buying HD DVD and Blu-ray players now are really just buying the DAT players of tomorrow.

+1 mos def

@MikeTechno: You won't see holographic discs in the mass market for still many years. Holographic discs of 1000GB capacity at least will be needed around the 2012-2015 time frame when the UHDV standard should have started replacing HDTV and H.265 will probably the codec of choice.

Hey Mike, instead of trying to predict the future, why not take part in shaping it?.... in your position you should able to influence a large number of customers in choosing the correct and only real HD format, Blu-Ray. Here in Japan Blu-ray is definitely kicking some real butt in the major stores... Its not really a format WAR anymore. I don't particularly have any bias against HD DVD though... but the market seems to have chosen the correct path to HD enlightenment.

BR has a LONG way to go before it can be called anything resembling "the correct and only real HD format..." A finalized spec would be a great start.

Maybe I'm the minority here, but I prefer the products that I buy to be useful NOW. I don't want to pay for 'potential' (which unfortunately I did with the PS3). I don't want to have to buy updated equipment (ONE YEAR LATER), solely to use features that should have been incorporated from the start.

I own both formats, and frankly, I'm picky about what I pick up in the next gen formats (typically something that's fairly effects heavy). If a movie is available in both formats, I buy HD DVD (to the point of importing films that are Blu-ray exclusive in the US...the price difference is worth it). If the movie is only available on Blu-ray...there's a good chance that I'll just buy it on DVD, and upconvert. I own 3 BR movies to date (in contrast, about 50 HD DVDs).

When it comes to home entertainment, BR has been the biggest waste of my money.

Very well said, my friend.

I have no clue why these brainwashed drones refuse to see that.

2012-2015? I'd say they are needed now. Well maybe not for movies but definitely as a data storage medium. When DVD burners appeared on the scene a single DVD disk could backup your entire Hard disk.... Hard disk storage as a medium continues to increase while retail DVD/Optical storage is still limited to 50GB (in blu-ray) not even coming close to the flagship 1TB hard drives on the market now... 1TB Storage will be nice in 2015 but I'm sure it wont be enough...

Hey il,

Instead of trying to brainwash people into going Blu-Ray, don't you think it's wiser to offer a combo player first?

So the consumer can enjoy any HD movie that comes out.

i agree with your post, i belive neither will win for a standardized format for the long haul, most consumers wont bother for many reasons listed in these posts, such as money, having to get a new tv aswell, and thinking they need to buy all new dvds.. well i donno..

i only bought a HD A1, last year, becasue it was an out of box special at futureshop(see bestbuy)- that said, it plays all my DVDs absolutly fine, and makes some or most slightly better upscaling on my hd tv.

now i dont own a single, not one hd dvd.. becasue i look at movies as a portable device that i can take to my parents,(they have the same tv as me, but just a normal dvd player), my grandmas, my girlfriends, or any of my buddies, i can borrow their movies, and they can borrow mine..

now if i went HD, and they went BLU, and some just have notmal DVD, the trading and sharing becomes alot more complex, or not doable in most cases..

i think this is whats pissing off alot of the market movie buyers, they dont want to get ripped off, hence why alot of people dont buy movies for the PSP, its only really good on the PSP, no other player plays it..

combo players might be the answer, but that means everyone has to buy combo player.. i dont think thats going to happen..

soo most people will wait it out, for a new form of format(universal) to be released.

Here in Japan Blu-ray hasnt been anywhere close to kicking some real butt in stores. Stations have scaled back series releases on blu-ray because this year has seen a absolute SURGE in sd-dvd sales (have you not noticed how much dvd floor space has grown in all your major stores?)
However you wont find hd-dvd in too many stores, if someone was to want a HD format they dont really have much of a choice.

Well, those may have been the time frame estimates when the technology for 50 to 100 layer multi-terrabyte discs was first being developed, but advances in that area have gone far better then expected from what I have heard. Many lessons where learned from what the HD DVD and Blu-ray camps went through in brining their products to market.

I have seen articles that point to the fact that these technologies are already completed and in testing now. They are refining and testing them to work the kinks out in the labs now but from what I am hearing they are expecting to have the first generation of these products shipping to consumers no later than late 2009 to early 2010. Now, it might not be until 2012 to 2015 before they really have them cranked up into the insanely high capacities like what have been projected, but I am told that you can expect to see multi-layered discs and players that will dramatically leapfrog both Blu-ray and HD DVD in stores by the end of 2009.

And the good news here is that the companies that are leading the charge on these new ultra-high capacity discs are not the big players that are involved in Blu-ray and HD DVD development. They are smaller, more nible, more innovative tech companies that have been there for a while now, but just under the radar of the major trade press.

Did Batman Begins ever have a blu-ray release? I'd find it interesting if Warner ever goes blu-ray exclusive. Although if they do decide to go blu-ray exclusive, I can only see them doing it AFTER December. It would be the smart move on their part, so they can see how the market is after a solid 2 month run of $200 HD-DVD players.

I do not think so. But that doesn't mean it won't.

I suspect some of the reluctance to release certain titles on Blu-Ray stems from the lack of interactivity support the studios want to integrate into their releases.

Not to mention, interactive Blu-Rays may not be compatible with all Blu-Ray players without a firmware update... but some players may not be able to be saved by a firmware update.

I'm speculating here, but I think this might be the reason why.

I think if WB chooses a format exclusively based on this 1% "war", it will be long after Christmas.

I think they want to see if PS3 gamers will maintain Blu-Ray's sales momentum for the Christmas holidays before committing to either format.

Possible problems with that are:

1. PS3 launches an awesome game for the PS3 and you might see a sharp drop in Blu-Ray movie sales. Unreal Tournament III???

2. Nintendo continues to entice parents to buy the Wii over the XBox 360 and the PS3 as the family console of choice this holiday season. Thus choking potential PS3 sales.

3. The cheapest PS3 has a $200 higher premium over the competing HD-DVD player for those who only care for movies. Not to mention the 40GB PS3 offers no backwards compatibility for PS2 or PS1 games for cost-conscious gamers (which this console is aimed at).

You realise that fire sale of an obsolete HD DVD model won't last long..

In the words of that idiot Ed Oswald:

"It's a temporary price drop, until supplies run out".

The difference between this (a genuine temporary price drop), and the 60GB PS3 price drop of course, is that the PS3 was a real price drop, when the supplies ran out it was replaced with a even cheaper 40GB $399 model.

So BetaPuppets, How does it feel to be manupulated so much by the editors here?

Sony certainly proved that with their 60GB PS3s, but I think the price drops are inevitable as a result of manufacturing improvements which have also been spurred on by the competition.

Sure both sides are subsidizing their players, but I wouldn't call either side's price drops as fire sales unless they let their supplies run out as you say.

Sure, but the $199 HD DVD is not because they are cheaper to produce (bear in mind, each one contains a Pentium4 based PC), it's to dump old stock.

There is a finite number of units to clear.

Good grief, get over yourself already.

Do you really think this is the only news site that I visit on a daily basis? No manipulation here, sorry to disappoint. It's no worse than the manipulation you try to get away with on this site on a daily basis, Mr. "Nope, 8 Per Store" Deacon.

Anyway, I can think for myself just fine, thank you... unlike you, who chooses to regurgitate the same tired delusional ramblings of the blu-ray.com community.

"(bear in mind, each one contains a Pentium4 based PC)"

- You really are too f*cking stupid to be allowed out on the internet.

It was the HD A1 that had the pc in a box design.

F*ck but you are a laughably incredibly ill-informed f*ckwit moron.

Are you saying this price drop wont have an affect on sales? I could see why you might think this since a price drop on the PS3 hasn't done much for it. LOL

More nonsense from the village idiot.

Coming from the guy who doesn't own an HD-DVD player. You have no life.

Hey slappy, would you care to point out exactly where it is that Ed Oswald said this? I looked, and it's not in this article at all.

Are you maybe referring to this comment from Nate Mook in his article referring to the sub $200 player?

"Although the price drop may be more of an effort to clear stock for the new A3 rather than attract customers, it's a sign that high-definition prices are starting to reach the magic $199 number where DVDs took off."

This statement speculates on what the purpose of the price drop is, while making the point that HD DVD is now selling a player at, what the analysts call "the magic number".

A smurf calling people names...what next?

"bear in mind, each one contains a Pentium4 based PC"

I'm sorry... but you really are an idiot.

When PS3 gets a price drop, the village idiot Ed Oswald tells us it's only temporary. (he was wrong, as the 40GB PS3 drove the price even lower, not up as the idiot suggested).

However, when a end-of-line Toshiba goes on sale, with a very limited, when they are gone, they are gone, for $199, all the BetaPuppets start talking about how a $199 player this Xmas will be so good.

You have to be an idiot to think that Toshiba has enouhj HD-A2 units to last ay $199 for more than a week or 2 at most.

Trust me, the idiocy is well covered by the Blu army.

FFS, the price drop on the 60gb was a temporary thing...when they're gone, they're gone. The 40 gb PS3 is something entirely different.

You seem hell-bent to convince everyone that there's a very limited quantity of these players for sale. First you claim 8, then back pedal to 18, and have yet to address the link that I posted (from CNN no less) that debunked the 18 per store limit. What's the matter? Are you so genuinely afraid of HD DVD, that you have to blatantly fabricate information, just to justify the love (or is it a paycheck) of Sony, and a movie format?

Get over it. The only reason that the 40 gb PS3 is cheaper, is because of what they removed (not added, and not the result of lower production costs)...tacking on a copy of (arguably) the worst summer movie isn't adding value.

Whinge all you want to, but even you have to admit, this price is going to put more HD DVD players in peoples' homes (even if its only a 'limited quantity').

Oh, we're still waiting for a link to your 'quote' from Ed Oswald.

"Oh, we're still waiting for a link to your 'quote' from Ed Oswald. "

It's in the 60GB Ps3 price drop "news" article.

Do you REALLY think Toshiba are still making he A2? Of course not, it's a fire sale, and it's limited stocks at that. Even Toshiba admit it's to make way for the A3.

"Get over it. The only reason that the 40 gb PS3 is cheaper, is because of what they removed (not added, and not the result of lower production costs)..."

Bzztt, wrong on that too. 40GB is cheaper, because it uses 65nm Cell processor, smaller die means more chips per wafer, and thus lower cost. Seeing as the Cell is one of the most expensive PS3 components, a 30% reduction in cost is significant, before you take off the reduced components for cooling due to lower heat production.

"Bzztt, wrong on that too. 40GB is cheaper, because it uses 65nm Cell processor, smaller die means more chips per wafer, and thus lower cost."

I love how you conveniently avoid commenting on what they removed from the PS3, namely backwards compatibility. Sony is desperately trying to cut every last cent possible from the production cost of the PS3. It's just so blatantly obvious, yet you Sony shills can't seem to grasp this.

I also find it amusing how your new favorite phrase is "fire sale" and you use it in pretty much every single post you make. You keep harping on about Ed Oswald being wrong about the low end PS3 model being on sale only temporarily. The funny thing here is that Sony themselves said they were clearing out inventory with that price drop. The only reason the cheap (and crippled) model wasn't removed from the market after inventory was depleted was due to the fact that nobody's buying the expensive model. Again, pure desperation on Sony's part. They have NO CHOICE but to keep the low end/cheap/crippled model around in order to sell consoles.

Nice try though, with your lame crusade to try and undermine the writers here at BetaNews. I believe Ed was reporting based on information available at the time. Again, Sony themselves said it was a fire sal...err, clearance sale. Then later decided to keep a cheap model, out of sheer desperation.

Yeah, we even clarified it AFTER WE TALKED TO SONY.

See folks, the difference between me and those you who like to bash me is that I actually talk to these companies on a daily basis, whereas you just take their hype at face value, and probably have never spoken to the company in your life.

Big difference when it comes to facts, folks. I'm not going to make up facts on Blu-ray to appease those who are too rabidly anti-HD DVD to appreciate balanced journalism.

Thanks guys :)

I was beginning to wonder if you had taken some vacation time. I understand everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I was honestly surprised not to see you retort after seeing your integrity questioned by certain individuals.

...then again, I know you must be really busy "making up rumors" to read everyone's comments. :)

Thanks, and keep up the good work Ed. This is one of a handful of news sites I check on a daily basis... now just need to work on those weekend updates. :P

a $200 HDDVD player definetly going to sell this christmas season, I wonder if BR has a cheap player coming out prior to the christmas shopping madness starts?? It would be wise to match the competitions prices.

I have been buying BR's since PS3 release, but I must say I have slowed down purchasing them due to the price, at $25-30 for a movie it just doesnt push me into it unless the movie is loaded with graphics (like 300) and would be worth the $$. HDDVD is too expensive too, I know they justify it by being combo discs, which is a very nice feature not found in BR, but regardless I still dont like spending $30-35 for a movie when I can get the same one on DVD for 1/2 the price.

If either format had a reduced price the first weeka movie is out like DVD does, say $20 for the first week, I would be buying movies weekly. But until then Ill only grab a BR flic with lots o graphics, who needs to spend $30-35 for a comedy???

All in due time.

Some do lower the price for the release week. I think I remember picking up 300 on HD-DVD for $25 at Target. I'd have to check my receipt to verify though.

I went to Wal-Mart yesterday to see if the A2 was in stock only to find the A3 selling for $298 with copies of 300 and The Bourne Identity bundled with the A3. The A2 was not yet in stock at my local Wal-Mart.

"a $200 HDDVD player definetly going to sell this christmas season,"

Who said anythig about a $200 HDDVD player being available for Xmas?

This is a temporary price drop to dump old stock, when it's gone, the price goes back up...

Check out the article (http://www.homemediamaga...le.cfm?article_id=11449) and see what Warner actually says. This article left out some key things warner said including:

-Also there was Dan Silverberg, VP of high-definition media for Warner Home Video, which since Paramount’s move to the HD DVD camp is the only studio to support both next-generation formats.

-That may not be for long, Silverberg said. “One thing that may be changing is our strategy,” he said. “When both formats launched and hardware prices were high, we made a decision to support both formats and let the consumer decide. But now that hardware pricing is affordable for both Blu-ray and HD DVD, it appears consumers no longer want to decide — so the notion of staying in two formats for the duration is something we are re-evaluating now that we are in the fourth quarter.”

-Silverberg noted that Warner has the top-selling Blu-ray title of all time with 300 and is consistently No. 1 or No. 2 in both Blu-ray sales market share and in number of Blu-ray titles in the market.

-“We can definitely talk Blu-ray,” he said. “We are committed to the format.”

all those and more straight from the ARTICLE at Home Media Magazine which is the same magazine that publishes the Nielsen VideoScan numbers on a weekly basis.

Sales of 300 on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray combined accounted for 5% of total disc sales.

"Top selling.... of all time" indeed.

Top selling of all time is certainly marketing spin which ignores the obvious fact that 1% of all HDTV owners own a HD player. Pretty sobering when you look at the big picture.

http://tinyurl.com/24pat3

from your link ( Bottom line:
There is no guarantee either of these formats will still be viable 12 months from now, so it's unclear why the casual movie fan would consider investing in either side at all.
)

i agree /nod

i for one, will still buy DVD, anyone who does not release a movie on DVD, is just dumb, and should be shot on da spot for their intelect needs some re wiring.

i highly doubt time warner will release just soley blu-ray dvds, and not on regular dvd formats.. if thats the case, they should burn, and i too will start to burn(movies on dvds that is).

Can i have a link to the magazine article since the one you provided is missing those key parts and noone will take the word of someone...

A few things to note:

1. The format war is ridiculously small. I've read that only 1% of all HDTV owners own a HD player. Using stand alone player sales or disc sales to trumpet a victory at this stage in the game has been ridiculous.

2. Earlier this year, it was announced that Blu-Ray and HD-DVD sales reached a new milestone" by exceeding VHS sales for this year. Is this worthy of being a milestone?

3. It is largely accepted that the PS3 is the driving force of the 2:1 disc sales advantage by providing along with standalone player sales a 5:1 player advantage over HD-DVD. Keep in mind, that there has not yet been a really good game for the PS3 platform. There is no Halo 3 killer. So what you've got is the "PS3 effect" of bored gamers looking to use their PS3 in other ways... namely watching a movie while they wait on a great game. What happens when the PS3 finally gets a great game? Will gamers prefer a $30 movie with 2 hours worth of entertainment or a $60 game with weeks worth of entertainment? Which has better replay value? Will gamers be able to maintain the momentum the PS3 has provided for disc sales in this unremarkably small war?

4. Recent disc sales trends for both formats show a decline in movie purchases. Blu-Ray having the sharpest decline. Is this bored gamers buying into less movies?

Food for thought.

Until then, the Format War is better described as a skirmish at best. Spinning a victory using cherry picked facts in a tiny war is ridiculous.

Guyver, I think it's less than 1%.

"it was announced that Blu-Ray and HD-DVD sales reached a new milestone" by exceeding VHS sales for this year"

yes, that is huge, most people still buy VHS, if they dont own a computer, a dvd player, or cable/satalite tv! wich is say, um, 0.0002% of the pop!

THIS STORY IS SOOO BIASED!

Relax people I'm kidding!

It's still too early to say they (Warner) will go Blu only. These are still just rumors and speculations at this point. I hope it's true... but I'm not counting on it until an official announcement is made from Warner.

TYPICAL BETARUMOURS!!!!! :p

LMAO

How in the name of f*ck does -

"When both formats launched and hardware prices were high, we made a decision to support both formats and let the consumer decide.
But now that hardware pricing is affordable for both Blu-ray and HD DVD, it appears consumers no longer want to decide, so the notion of staying in two formats for the duration is something we are re-evaluating now that we are in the fourth quarter,"

- turn into "might go Blu-ray exclusive"!?

If anything (and bearing in mind Viacom/Paramounts' comments on Blu-ray's additional costs) it could be construed as a hint they are going HD DVD exclusive.

I wonder how edited those comments were and what the context was or how reliable Home Media Magazine is in this?

....and of course seeing favourable comments at a Blu-ray event, well, who'd a thunk it?

Last little bit of public pressure for the HD DVD exclusive deal?

Hocuspokus, you are totally correct. It could go both ways. I am sure $198 HD-DVD will have a major effect on the decision.

I think its speculation towards Blu only because it was at a Blu event. If it were at an HDDVD event, the speculation would be HDDVD only. It's getting interesting though.

Seriously. I read that comment before the story and thought they were going to be backing HD-DVD.

If affordability was one of the reasons they expressed for going to both formats, which is more-so now and for the foreseeable future?

Before anyone goes flaming away at me, please understand: I couldn't care less which format "wins". I've never used either of them, and do not intend to for a few years yet.

all news articles are biased if you want them to be

I really can't comment until DaveDeacon comes and tells me if this article is biased or not.