It's not that I hate Sony as much as people like Davey make me laugh. I would live to see this trolls "high end" Emerson surround package from Value City and his 27" CRT.

Note that he never tells us how great HIS BD player is, just the one's he has seen at the Magnolia section at Best Buy. It's almost comical how someone could be so wrapped up into something so pointless.

He's like a c***roach who only comes out when there is a BD or HD-DVD stories on BN. I can't get it through his fat head how much of a loser he actually is. He may realize it and just choose to ignore it or he evaluates his life every night and cries when he j***s off.

Thanks BN for the laugh...

BD and HD-DVD have a combined share of less than one percent of the market. I think they will both fail as movie formats and live on as mass storage only.

Of course as soon as you can purchase a blank HD-DVD or BD disc for a buck each, let the copying begin. You can already download counless movies for both formats on the torrents. No one will embrace these formats until you can easily and cheaply backup and copy movies.

Ah this is fantastic news. I just can't wait until Microsoft are forced to create a Blu-Ray drive for their beloved XBOX 360. Should happen before 3 years though... ahh the sweet smell of victory, not that there was any doubt of course.

How many times do we have to ask you to take your FUD elsewhere? :P

Ah, the truth hurts does it not? ... here is some more FUD for you:

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

That's not the real Mark Gillespie (the l's are i's).

This is corporate arrogance at its worst. The high-tech is full of it.

When you look up arrogance in the dictionary, it says "See Sony".

They're smoking crack again. I say "again" because it's almost identical verbage to what they said about betamax and UMD. Sony v2.1

The more they try to force the next format on people the more they will resist. Especially since they cant even make a decision on one format! Long live the DVD.

Knee jerk reaction to just reading the title and the first sentence: Ain't gonna happen. Heck, DVD hasn't even completely replaced VHS yet. DVRs are making them less useful, though; the only major advantage a VCR had from your standard DVD player was that it could record stuff from TV (we still do that, actually).

As a side note, why does every Blu-Ray news posting become a PS3 flamefest? Give it a rest.

"As a side note, why does every Blu-Ray news posting become a PS3 flamefest?"

Because all the Sony fanboys act like the PS3 was the BD trump card, and ever since its release they won't shut up about BD winning the next gen war.

With home systems running petobytes of storage I don't see the importance of what are really just storage devices. I can get what they store directly and eliminate the middleman. How many people buy software off the shelf any more?

Petobytes?

The typical home system today might have 200GB-500GB tops.

Out of those, how many are connnected to TV's?

DVD, HD-DVD or Blu-ray will be around for a long time - Digital media will grow stronger, but the digital media doesn't travel in the same way physical media can.

"With home systems running petobytes of storage"

WTF? Are you from the future?

Replace DVD in 3 years?? I don't think so. Neither format will replace DVD within 3 years. If anything, HD-DVD stands a much better chance of replacing it with its hybrid's.

Otherwise, DVD will remain #1 for at least the next 5 years. You can quote me on this!

All these idiotic Sony fanboys are just as arrogant as Sony themselves. Go figure.

I remember when Sony said the next generation gaming begins when THEY say it begins. (Meaning, when the PS3 is released.) I hope they burn in hell with their useless PS3, which isn't selling by the way. I haven't seen a console flop so bad since the 3DO in the 90's.

2.1 million consoles with the console only available still in 1/3rd of the globle, that's pretty decent, and far from a 3DO.

Next week, PS3 sales go into overdrive...

"Next week, PS3 sales go into overdrive..."

lmao

Ray, you're one of a few to exhibit any sense of logic.

These others who contradict your comments are only doing so from their own irrational mentalities. The same mentalities that Ford and GM are using in their effort to continue losing ground to Toyota.

Into overdrive eh? Hmmmm... and they still won't be able to catch up to the Wii or 360.

http://www.vgcharts.org/

PS3 is only available 1/3rd of the world, and has over 2 million sales,supply issues seems to have been resolved.

WII is available globally, major supply issues, 5.8million.

360 available globally, no supply issues, but after a year, only 9.5m sold.

I think it's pretty feasable that PS3 can catch the others very quickly once it's available globally.

http://business.timesonl...logy/article1533825.ece

"Sony will sell around 4 million units in Europe this year". Now considering 360 sales are stagnet, this will even things up considerably, more so, when you add NA/Jap sales.

To preempt a BetaNews story about EU launch, consoles being on shelves:

"The consumer electronics giant has made 220,000 of the £425 consoles available for the UK launch on Friday, a figure so large that retailers are reporting none of the supply problems that have plagued rival launches."

"However, analysts and retailers have warned against interpreting the absence of a stock squeeze as a negative sign."

360 sales have stalled..

http://www.gamesindustry...tent_page.php?aid=23596

"sales of Xbox 360 are just 1 per cent higher than this time last year - suggesting that demand for Microsoft's console has peaked. "

Until Halo3 AND GTA4 comes out...

The PS3 has no signature game anymore...not even GT4 since it will be released for the 360. Poor Sony...

Grasping for straws...

Lol you are bragging about 2 million? There are at least 2 million Sony fanboys trying to get a PS3 just because it is from Sony. What happens whenever they get their PS3? Do you really think an average consumer in his right mind is going to pay $600 for one? Especially since the 360 is having a price drop soon. Also I find it interesting that you conveniently showed the site that shows the 360s numbers lower than what they really are and the PS3's numbers probably higher than what they really are. I got news for you. These websites aren't accurate. http://nexgenwars.com/ http://www.vgcharts.org/

I also like how you just automatically know that Sony will sell 4 million in Europe.

"Next week, PS3 sales go into overdrive..."

LOL!!! Overdrive.. yeah, that's why the Wii, Xbox360, and even the old dinosaur PS2 are ALL outselling the PS3 right now. Just look at the figures from last month. I love how you Sony idiots are always looking for some lame excuse. First it was the fact that the Xbox360 had a year heard start (which is Sony's own fault), then it was supply shortages (again, Sony's fault for not being able to meet the, albeit short lived, demand), now it's the fact that only 1/3rd of the world can buy it. Give me a break. Sony themselves said last year, before the release of the PS3 that they would ship 6 MILLION UNITS BY THE END OF MARCH. Now you kids try to brag about 2.1 million units shipped. How many of that actually sold though? Maybe 1.8 million at best. Compare that to over 10 million Xbox360 sold. PS3 sales are laughable.

Are you serious? Where'd you hear that?

Edited: Oh, I thought you ment Gran Turismo 4 whe you said, "not even GT4 since it will be released for the 360" , but you probably ment Grand Theft Auto 4.

But anyway I just saw another game that moved over to the Xbox 360; Devil May Cry 4.

http://www.joystiq.com/2...playstation-3-exclusive/

I think developers are loosing faith in the PS3. Here are other games that were/supposed to be PS3 exclusives:

- Assasins Creed
- Unreal Tournament III
- Virtual Fighter 5
- Devil May Cry 4
- Mercenaries 2
- GTA4
- Final Fantasy
- And Resident Evil 5 will be the first time on Xbox too

"Now considering 360 sales are stagnet"

I think the word you're looking for is "stagnant", but anyway. Perhaps you should look at last month's figures. The Wii, Xbox360 and PS2 ALL outsold the PS3. If anything, the PS3 sales are stagnant. It's pretty sad when your 7 year old console is outselling your brand new hardware. Sony desperately needs this European launch.

"PS3 is only available 1/3rd of the world, and has over 2 million sales,supply issues seems to have been resolved."

Supply issues seems to have been resolved?? LOL! That's the understatement of the decade. More like "PS3s are sitting on shelves, nobody's buying." The PS3 has been available for over three months and hasn't sold 2 million units yet. Assuming these stellar numbers continue (fat chance), that would amount to under 8 million units (4x2million) in 1 year's time. How does that compare to ~10 million Xbox360 sold in the first year? Hmm?

£425 for the PS3 in the UK? That's $826 USD at current rates. Oh yeah, I'm sure those consoles will be FLYING OFF THE SHELVES at such a bargain price! I feel sorry for the UK chaps getting ripped so badly by Sony. They're selling you a crippled version of the console at almost 50% higher price.

I love playing the quote game.

http://www.betanews.com/..._in_February/1174055937

"However, the PS3 showed the biggest drop with some 127,000 consoles sold, falling some 49 percent." OUCH!!

How is the fact that Xbox360 sales are 1 percent higher than this time last year a bad thing? It means the console is selling just as well NOW (a year later) than it did during it's initial release! That's actually very good news, considering the PS3 can't even sustain decent numbers 3 months after its release. I'd love to see what kind of numbers the PS3 will be doing 1 year from now.. that is, if it's still around.

Yes, it's real logical to post a bunch of links to skewed statistics which fit your Sony fanboy attitude.

I'm sure you have never been to Europe or even left your inbred shores (like 96% of all Americans), if you had you would understand WHY the console is more in Europe.

Sales tax ranges from 15% - 25%. The prices you quote INCLUDE tax. If you take 17.5% off the UK price of £425, to make it a fair comparison to thr $599 pre-tax price, it's very close to the US price, when you consider how weak the US$ is..

As for sitting on shelves, that's pure Xbox fanboy talk. The PS3 is diffucult to snag in the US even now.. Even Paul Thurrot a Microsoft fanboy himself says so..

http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/ps3.asp

PS3 HAS sold 2 Million, http://www.vgcharts.org/ shows this, and also shows Microsoft's SOLD figure as opposed to their quoted SHIPPED figures.

Lastly, PS3 is outselling the 360 at the same point in it's life, and the 360 sales were in the runup to Xmas, not post xmas when sales are naturally weaker.

http://videogamecharts.c.../USGrowthChart1_003.gif

as this chart indicates and as you can clearly see the ps3 has outsold the xbox360 in the USA at the same point in it's life.

You can add Ace Combat 6 to that list now since it is going to be a 360 title and rumors that it may even become an exclusive for 360. http://xboxyde.com/news_4118_en.html

Oh, thanks. That makes 9 games so far!

You boys might want to bring the price down first.

Replace DVD in 3 years eh, sounds like too many ppl are smoking crack.

http://www.dvdempire.com...p;userid=99365495368636

Who in their right mind would want Blu-Ray when they can get a vastly superior HD-DVD player for less? Toshiba's HD-A1 and HD-XA1 players were superior to all of the Blu-Ray players in terms of both video and audio quality. Now all of the Blu-Ray players have fallen even further behind with the release of Toshiba's HD-A2 player.

Blu-Ray will likely fall flat on its face in three years, if not less.

Where do you get your info from?
Blu-ray has way better audio and video quality.
See some movie reviews first. Thats why Blu-ray sales are way greater than hd dvd.
See here: Blu-ray released later but outstrip hd dvd already LOL
http://www.dvdempire.com...Features/hidef_wars.asp

It will get only worse for hd dvd.
When people become more educated about the formats they always choose Blu-ray.

"Blu-ray has way better audio and video quality."

- That's just a flat out lie Dave......as anyone looking at what the dual format owners have to say on the avs and av forums would know.

Are you a dual format owner Dave, hmmmmmm?

Yes, and i have compared them side by side and Blu-ray sound and looks better.

Here is some more info about why hd dvd will lose...
http://hidefdvdempire.bl...vd-to-rally-troops.html

Sounds to me like a early HD-DVD adopter, who has convinced himself that this is true, despite the ACTUAL truth.

Blu-Ray actually looks better and sounds better, many sites and reviews state this, those that don't either have a vested interest, or have selected non like for like movies (there are good and bad transfers on BOTH formats)

Well if you really have - I note you make claims to dual ownership but then talk of comparing the 2 side by side as if that was a one-off so I'm left wondering just what your comparative test really was.....a Sony magazine article?

It's amazing how - contrary to your claims - many dual format owners on the avs and av forums claim HD-DVD is either often the superior of the 2 or that BD rarely only ever equals HD-DVD in PQ & SQ.

BD thanks to Sony uses an almost 20yr old codec (MPEG2) and there is no way that clunky ancient space-hungry relic is superior to VC-1 (HD-DVD's modern encoding method).....

.....or else they (Paramount & Warner) use the exact same encoding & codecs (VC-1 & AVC/MPEG4) in which case there is no difference at all.

So you'll forgive me Dave but I just don't believe you (or your selective opinion propaganda articles).

But that is typical of the BD side in all of this, propaganda, exaggeration, distortion and sometimes flat-out lying.

Tell you what Dave, tell us all about BD's appallingly poor quality 'The 5th Element' or 'Terminator 2'......there isn't a single HD-DVD movie which is so poor as either of those.

Do you get paid to spout BS? Blue-ray does not have better audio or video quality.

btw your link doesn't work.

Believe what you want, but people realized that the those things you and the other hd dvd shills are saying is FUD and they have voted with their wallets and will continue to do so.

MPEG2 is no used, and every one knows it already so trying to rely on that old FUD is not going to lead you anywhere. Try to think of something better next time. LOL
Here are some examples:
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/happyfeet.html
http://bluray.highdefdig...marchofthepenguins.html
so on...
Video Resolution/Codec * 1080p/VC-1

Also if you do some research you will find that Blu-ray sound scores 3.98 while hd dvd 3.71 overall which proves that it sounds way better up to date. And with its capabilities even not yet used at 100% while hd dvd is maxing out already... (the lack of capacity speaks)

Considering the fact that neither format is selling anything to get excited about all these numbers mean nothing. It does not matter until it starts getting accepted by the average consumer. Also whenever HD-DVD comes out with their rumored $200 player it will crush BD. The consumer will go hmm $500 or $200. Guess which one they are going to pick...

"Sounds to me like a early HD-DVD adopter, who has convinced himself that this is true, despite the ACTUAL truth."

Yes, anyone who supports HD-DVD is an early adopter. Couldn't you say the exact same thing about Blu-Ray? Anyone who owns either format right now is considered an early adopter. You're going to have to come up with a better argument.

If anyone is the FUD spreading shill around here Dave it's you, again.

You see, I don't come on the forum to attack any format.

I will point out the inaccuracy, lies and distorting hypocrisy of the BD propagandists and their ludicrous viral marketeer liars tho.

MPEG2 is used by Sony, who happen to also be a film studio.
Sony movies = MPEG2
(which is what I said originally, so what on earth you imagined you were proving pointing out Warner using VC-1 or AVC - which I also mentioned & pointed out originally - I don't know.)

.....and btw seeing as you raised them you'll also find dual format owners stating regularly & quite clearly that they find Warners HD-DVD offerings to be of better P & S quality than the same movie on BD.

Sony helped invent MPEG2 & so use it so as to avoid paying a royalty to Microsoft for VC-1.
Fact.

.....and the whole point of BD's size is all about bulk data storage & accomodating MPEG2's appetite for space, it's nothing to do with quality.

BD is ok as a bulk data storage media, but it is not a purpose designed video media in the same way that HD-DVD or even SD DVD is (which is how come iHD is far superior to what ever spec BD will eventually settle on......cos you do know that the BD format isn't even finalised yet, right?).

.....and I do not rely on fanzine sites or the highly selective use of reviews to inform me about the quality of one format over the other.

If you knew half as much as you pretend to you'd know there are more than a few BD discs using mere Dolby Digital - no sign of any comparitively amazing SQ or the use of that supposedly 'vital' & great capacity there, huh?

....and your running away from & just avoiding the issue of the horrible BD encodes (The 5th Element and Terminator 2) is noted and typical.

BTW which BD & HD-DVD players do you own & which movies?
Which movies and at what resolution did you use to compare each format and on what screen?
How did you check the sound out?
Do you have a receiver with HDMI & how many speakers and of what type?

"Also if you do some research you will find that Blu-ray sound scores 3.98 while hd dvd 3.71 overall which proves that it sounds way better up to date."

Yes, a 0.27 score difference means Blu-Ray sounds way better. You can stop posting your random, ridiculous statistics and links to Blu-Ray propaganda. Nobody's falling for it. Those sites simply represent opinions. Well all know opinions are like a**holes; everybody has one and they all stink.

I've compared Blu-ray and HD DVD. HD DVD wins, hands down, and feels more like a next-gen format. Blu-ray will be known as Blew-ray in 3 years time. The BD spec isn't even finalized yet for crying out loud, still feels like it's in Beta. Beta... that sounds familiar... just add Max, and then you have the real picture of what Blu-ray really is.

Blu-rape sales are only better than HD DVD right now because HD DVD has had a relative dearth of releases in Q1 (yet HD DVD is still doing surprisingly well given the number of Blu-ray players in the form of the PS3). Moreover, with all of the Buy-1-Get-1-Free BD sales, 50% off BD movie sales, coupons and the like, this only tells me how desperate Sony is to sell Blu-ray movies. And will all these sales, they've only managed to outsell HD DVD 2:1 or so, when the ratio of "Blu-ray" PS3 players compared to HD DVD players are suppose to be 5:1? That is pathetic. Blu-ray is doing nowhere near as well as it needs to. They'll need more promotions to sell Blu-ray movies, like Buy-1-Get-10-Free, but then again, Sony et al can't bleed forever. HD DVD is where it's at, and a huge number of titles are going to start being released beginning in the spring.

HD DVD champions next-gen codecs, like VC1. Sony is still pushing the wasteful, has-been codec MPEG2 for Blu-ray. HD DVD champions TrueHD and DD5.1+ which are both mandatory in all HD DVD players, but are only optional in Blu-ray players. HD DVD is fantastic and offers a much better bang for your buck than the overpriced Blu-ray format (which is based on unproven technology. A lot of people are starting to experience physical cracks in their BD discs already).

Hocuspokus, good post. DaveBG has fallen for Sony's propoganda machine hook, like and sinker. Anybody who does any real research or directly compares the two formats can see that HD DVD is much better than Blu-ray -- better next-gen technology, better implementation, better mandatory features, better value, and just better for the consumer. BD may want people to think that they will take over DVD in three years, but in three years BD will just plain be taken over. HD DVD is here to stay.

Lets see, currently HD-DVD almost exclusively uses Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD (the movie Chronos is the exception, using the newer DTS Master HD or whatever it's called) while Blu-Ray mostly uses old fashioned Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1 channel surround. There is not a single HD-DVD title that uses the older Dolby Digital and DTS audio formats.

As for video, MPEG-4 seems to beat MPEG-2 in all cases. Either that or movie studios don't know how to properly master a movie in MPEG-2 HD video.

Bluray sales are "way better" simply do to the releases. When you consider the number of titles available in each format, HD-DVD is the clear winner as far as percentages of sales of total titles available.

Blu-ray only wins right now because they have more studio support. We'll have to see how this changes since we can now see that the PS3 has had a mild affect compared to what studios (and Sony) had probably hoped for.

And as far as comparing the 2 formats. Let's be realistic. To those that will really decide things (the average consumer), audio and video are equal. All that's left is price and selection.

Not sure what your point is, but PS3 Blu-Ray supports 7.1 TrueHD audio as well... in ADDITION, it supports uncompressed audio, something HD-DVD does not support.

Funny thing is, you need HDMI 1.3 to support TrueHD bitstreams. Guess what, no HD-DVD player currently has HDMI 1.3. PS3 has it of course...

"Dolby is working closely with Silicon Image to ensure transmission of Dolby Digital Plus and TrueHD signals on HDMI v. 1.3."

http://www.hdtvmagazine....io_in_hdmi_versions.php

As for MPEG4, I again don't see your point, Blu-Ray and HD-DVD support the exact same codecs (MPEG2, MPEG4-VC1, MPEG4-H264/AVC), the 2 major differences of course is that:

1/ Blu-Ray has ALOT more bandwidth available for the audio and video data stream. (30 Mbit/s in HD DVD, 48 Mbit/s in BD).

2/ Blu-Ray has alot more storage for uncompressed audio, multiple languages, PiP tracks and other extras.

Finally, there are plenty of HD-DVD titles with DTS soundtracks..

http://www.avforums.com/...showthread.php?t=446985

"PS3 Blu-Ray supports 7.1 TrueHD audio as well... in ADDITION, it supports uncompressed audio, something HD-DVD does not support."

- There's zero appreciable difference between these - as owners of both repeatedly say on the av & avs forums.

"you need HDMI 1.3 to support TrueHD bitstreams."

- No you don't, in reality separate analogue outputs have the bandwidth & can cope with this just fine.

"no HD-DVD player currently has HDMI 1.3. PS3 has it of course."

- No that is simply not true, the Toshiba HD XA2 and HD EX1 have it.

You see HD-DVD has a range of products at various specs & price-points (and the floor on the price range is dropping all the time).

BD just has PS3 - and a few pointless, grossly over-priced, under-spec'd and not selling proper a/v players - along with a basic specification that hasn't even been decided yet.
Early BD adopters better watch out they don't get left out in the cold!

"Dolby is working closely with Silicon Image to ensure transmission of Dolby Digital Plus and TrueHD signals on HDMI v. 1.3."

- Sounds like they are not quite there yet.

As for MPEG4, I again don't see your point, Blu-Ray and HD-DVD support the exact same codecs

- In theory yes, but in practice Sony BD movies come with MPEG2, an almost 20yr old codec, and it shows.

"Blu-Ray has ALOT more bandwidth available for the audio and video data stream. (30 Mbit/s in HD DVD, 48 Mbit/s in BD)."

- .....and so what?

With a modern codec like VC-1 you simply don't need that kind of room.
HD-DVD has repeatedly demonstrated 'transparency' to the master copy with VC-1 & 12 - 16Mbit/sec bandwidth.

It really is a non issue.

....and filling it with those idiotic 'watch once extras' is not my - or anyone I know's - idea of making good use of the space nor getting anywhere even close to justifying BDs price premium.

"Blu-Ray has alot more storage for uncompressed audio, multiple languages, PiP tracks and other extras."

- Well I did say BD was OK as a bulk data storage media.

But again this is fine in theory - except they will very rarely be using that space.
They will end up cutting costs and using the more modern & space efficient codecs like VC-1 to release the exact same content on each media
(well, those that are dual format will.....which is to say probably all of them by 2009, except for Sony will be stuck saving face & needing the space for the ancient MPEG2).

.....and PiP?!
You mean that laughable waste of the capacity of the disc by actually encoding 2 tracks to run along side each other!?

That's what I mean about it not being a purpose built video media whereas HD-DVD is which is how come iHD is markedly superior (and can do multiple scanning etc).

"Finally, there are plenty of HD-DVD titles with DTS soundtracks.."

- Yeah but BD's 'vanilla' Dolby Digital runs to a max of approx 450kbps, DTS can run to approx 1500kbps.

Which is why many many people rate DTS as far superior to DD and are looking forward to DTS appearing on the XBox 360 & HD-DVD add-on.

BTW that was not really a good point to try to make.

HD-DVD is VERY close to the limit 30 Mbit/s A couple of players that show instantanious bandwidth show some scenes in some VC1 tites reaching 29Mbit/sec. I have a link somwehere...

As for your crap about BD still using MPEG2, show me some titles released in 2007 that use MPEG2...

Ray,

I have both formats, and I had BD first. HD-DVD has vastly superior black levels and no artifacting.

I at least can be an objective consumer and not a Sony cheerleader. There are only 3 or 4 movies I will buy on BD, and they are all Disney movies.

BD looks good, but HD-DVD is better. You have to own both before you can shoot of your big mouth, jagoff.

Dave is probably the biggest loser on the planet only for the fact he doesnt even own a BD player.

He spends countless hours cheerleading BD on this and the "official" BD forum. He even has a BD T-Shirt his "woman" made for him.

Take a look at the crap this guy posts

http://forum.blu-ray.com/member.php?u=1691

The only place he has seen BD and HD-DVD side by side is at Best Buy.

Where'd Dave go?

"HD-DVD is VERY close to the limit 30 Mbit/s"

- You're plain wrong.

Right now VC-1 actually uses between 12 - 18mbit/sec.

You might also care to know (tho I doubt it) that it is in continuing development and news released a couple of months back was showing it requiring only 9Mbit/sec (and every month that goes by just sees it getting better and better).

Plainly you just don't know the subject.

"As for your crap about"

- Wow, s'funny how typically quick you are to resort to the childish insults.

"show me some titles released in 2007 that use MPEG2..."

- Why not just go & look at every BD movie the Sony Studio has released then.

You're not doing too good Ray.

Better luck next time.

Hang on, didn't you just say HD-DVD sounded better than Blu-Ray, now you admit that perhaps it does not, but it's only 0.27 poorer than Blu-Ray..

Getting Desperate?

Hmm...That's funny. I don't see MPEG4 on the specs list. http://www.tigerdirect.c...&Tab=2&NoMapp=0
Guess they just forgot to put it right?

"As for your crap about BD still using MPEG2, show me some titles released in 2007 that use MPEG2..."

Why don't we just take a look at the spec sheet on the Blu-Ray player? I seem to have trouble finding MPEG4. I can find MPEG2, but MPEG4 seems to be missing. "Mysterious" http://www.tigerdirect.c...&Tab=2&NoMapp=0

"Blu-ray released later but outstrip hd dvd already LOL"

For once I agree with you Dave. Blu-Ray has "outstripped" HD-DVD.

Lol and were did those scores come from? Sony forums? Also prove where HD-DVD is maxing out already.

Lol he ran away...I don't think Dave has fallen for Sony's propaganda machine though. He is Sony's propaganda machine.

HD DVD is the way to go it just sounds beter, and it's eazyer to say.

Huh?

H-D-D-V-D

Blu-Ray

5 syllables is easier to say than 2? Please explain.

Here is my answer to you:

http://www.pcmag.com/art...2/0,1895,2104850,00.asp

An extremely slim lead in a technology that constitutes only a very small fraction of the market currently. So what?

You are not reading it right.
Its like that:

"It's now March, and Blu-ray appears to be holding its edge -- proving either that the assumption was incorrect, or that Blu-ray's apparent momentum didn't need the crutch. Moreover, the total of Blu-ray discs sold now outweighs the number of HD DVD discs sold, giving both the short-term and long-term edge to Sony's format."

More titles available means more sales. Bluray's biggest plus right now is not audio, video, cost or anthing other than SELECTION.

Considering how insignificant each individual title is selling though, we'll see how long this selection advantage lasts. Studios may start to see that PS3 did not have a huge impact and they may realize they are better off producing for both formats since they will both be around for awhile and they can make more money buy support them both.

Yeah, I didn't get that either.

It certainly does sound better and is more intuitive than blu-ray. People know HD and people know DVD. Only problem is some people probably think DVD's are already HD.

Where'd Dave go?

Once again, the guy with no money or a BD player is in here spouting one sided crap.

I'm glad I actually have a busy life to keep me from becoming him (Dave).

In a few days PS3 launches in Europe and for hd dvd is game over.

Blu-ray has 96% of the Japan market and outsells hd dvd 3:1 in USA.
Europe is all about Blu-ray too.

See USA sell charts here:
http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

The moment Universal (the only studio exclusive to hd dvd) jumps ship its over :)

Sorry DaveBD but the PS3 is going to be a bigger flop in Europe than it is in the US.

The thing is Dave BD just aren't shifting the movies the PS3 numbers indicate they ought to be.

It's 'game over' nothing.

It's BD supporters trying to talk up & make mountains out of molehills.

Right now (after the USA PS3 launch) both formats combined = 0.5% of the total market.

BD have made their big play with the PS3 and the response has been underwhelming to say the least.

You'll be able buy a brand name HD-DVD for around $200 this x-mas (the Toshiba HD A2 is $309 on Amazon USA right now and rumoured to be going lower in days......so $250 this summer, $200 by x-mas, so don't go & bet against it).

Then we have the 3 brands of Chinese HD-DVD players coming towards the end of the year, if the Toshiba is in the $200 -$250 range where do they sell at, $125 - $175?

This 'game' is far from over.

Samsung just jumped off of the 'BD exclusive ship', expect others to follow.

BD has PS3 and that's about it......and that just isn't enough.

I'll even tell you what's likely to happen with the PS3 in Europe.
The same thing as everywhere else cos they charge too much for it ......and just quit it with the 'it's worth it' nonsense.
Open your eyes, it's a primarily a kids/adolescents/twenty-somethings games console and it just costs too much!.

Short fanboy rush then stalled sales.

Then (maybe) a series of price cuts starting at x-mas to try and put some life into the thing.

The PS3 launch in Europe isn't going to help BD much. Even in Japan, the PS3 is doing horribly. There's an article here on BetaNews showing that both the Xbox 360 (over a year old!) and the PS2 (over 7 years old??) are outselling the PS3. It's obviously not selling well because of the ridiculous price. Now the European/Australian price tag is even higher, not to mention Sony decided to cripple the console by removing the PS2 hardware (Emotion Engine). It will be the exact same story as the USA launch. All the hardcore fans will rush out to buy one, then a few weeks later they'll be sitting on the shelves and no one will be buying. I'm sure Sony will pull the usual BS marking they always do. They'll make a big announcement, telling you the PS3 is doing amazingly well. *roll eyes*

If you ACTUALLY lived in Europe, like myself, you would see how much crap your talking.

PS3 pre-orders are selling very well, with the 1,000,000 consoles likely to sell out on launch day. That's alot of Blu-Ray owners...

As for "cripling" the system, hardly, 1200 PS2 titles supported is hardly crippled, with more to come, if anything the PAL PS3 is better, as it will upscale PS2 games to HD, something the hardware EE cannot do.

As for price, the PS3 is a mere 5% more expensive that the PS2 lauch price... Go figure..

I live in the UK and I can see he isn't "talking crap" (btw, wow, way to show respect for fellow members of the forum, not).

How is he "talking crap" when he refers to US, Aus & Japanese sales and prices?

Does he have to be in Europe or the UK to see our prices are the highest in the world (check out how much Norway is being charged! *hint* it's way more than £425).....

.....and until they cut the spec of the other PS3s (taking out the PS2 hardware) ours are also the lowest spec too.

Emulation is never as complete a soultion as fitting the actual hardware required, get off of it, you don't even sound like you're convincing yourself on that nevemind anyone else.

I am certain that the UK and Europe will be like everywhere else, PS3 will have a short fanboy rush (boosted slightly by those a/v owners seeing it as a means to the least expensive BD player available) and then sales will stall.

It's a games console, it's a bl**dy expensive games console - the difference between it & the PS2 is that the PS2 didn't have serious competiton showing up it's bloated price and sheer lack of performance compared.

PS3 UK pre-orders are still available in several outlets which indicates clearly that there hasn't been the sales rush some claimed or predicted.

That's the point, sales are nothing like the numbers once predicted.

......and the BD retail movie disc attachment rate for PS3 is also extremely low and will continue to be - especiually as it's dire games situation improves slowly.

That's why the Sony fanclub only want to talk in ratios or percentages.
Considering how many PS3s there are out there the BD sales numbers are far from impressive.

There will be a little boost after the European launch for BD but nothing much to be bragging about.......which is why they'll continue to avoid like the plague actually releasing & discussing actual disc numbers sold.

Both formats combined have 0.5% of the total disc market right now.
That's why those idiotic BD claims of a win or knocking out HD-DVD or taking over from SD DVD are so pathetic.

why does anyone really care enough to make these half-assed opinion spouting sites anyway? and even more confusing, is why do you care enough to do nothing but find and quote them?

Where'd Dave go?

Where'd Dave go?

This can't be!!!! Dave said that PS3 had 96% market in Japan!!! How dare you spout the truth!!!! Off with his head!!!

He just likes to spout his crap and leave lol. Since he can't back it up why stay around?

Ha ha ha ha

You couldn't make it up.

Just in from CeBit - Samsung join HD-DVD group!

It's in French but it is a Euro event.....

CeBIT 2007, que du bon à venir !
Petit coup de booster pour ceux qui ont pris le risque de franchir le pas de la HD et plus spécifiquement du HD DVD, sachez qu'une conférence de presse du groupe de promotion Européen du HD DVD (alliance de constructeurs comme TOSHIBA, MICROSOFT et d'éditeurs vidéo tels qu'UNIVERSAL, STUDIO CANAL etc) vient d'avoir lieu au CeBIT.

Le résultat affiche de beaux espoirs avec l'annonce de l'arrivée prochaine (en mai 2007) d'un nouveau lecteur de moyenne gamme TOSHIBA, le HD EP10 (sortie HDMI 1.2a en 1080p, positionné à 699€), l'annonce de SAMSUNG rejoignant le groupe (et donc produisant désormais aussi des HD DVD) et surtout le fait qu'une 100taine de titres seront disponibles en HD DVD en Europe d'ici la fin du premier trimestre 2007.
Plus de 600 titres HD DVD sont attendus d'ici NOEL prochain à travers l'Europe... à rajouter au catalogue déjà accessible aux USA !
De plus, l'interactivité iHD devrait être de plus en plus sollicitée (ex MIAMI VICE U-Control, exclusivité US) ainsi que la connexion internet pour des synchronisations ou uploads de contenus interactifs.

L'optimisme est donc au beau fixe, surtout que les chiffres de vente softs sont plutôt bons en Europe.
Malgré tout, il faut attendre l'arrivée de la PS3 et la sortie des titres BD d'éditeurs comme DISNEY ou autres pour savoir si cette tendance continuera ou pas..."

http://www.worldinhd.com...ebit_2007_que.html#more

- The bold high-lighted bit is the important part, it says "SAMSUNG's announcement of joining the group (and therefore now also producing HD DVD)".

There's another hardware manufacturer spending out hard cash to jump off of the 'BD exclusive ship' they were on and into producing hardware for both formats, who else this year, I wonder?

Pioneer?

Funny stuff that 'momentum', huh?

why would you limit yourself to money from just one format when you could have money from both, with little or no extra expense?

What a bunch of fake loosers -

"Ramp Industry is a UK-based marketing company that specialises in allowing clients to communicate their brand effectively and authentically, mainly through buzz marketing or viral marketing. It is generally used by companies which do not want to spend a great deal on marketing, or is used alongside other campaigns.

Recent clients have included Channel 4, Orange and PlayStation 3."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramp_Industry

Well i refuse to update my dvd player untill its dead, either way the old dvd will be very hard to dislodge its massive market share in 3 years, as it took nearly 10 years for dvd to knock over vhs.

if they can get the players down to £19.99 then they have a very slim chance.

lol

Am I the only person who thinks this will actually happen? I see this as absolutely possible; probable even.

One thing BD has going for it is advertising. It seems like every movie commercial I see now says "Coming soon to DVD and Blu-Ray". Where are the HD-DVD commercials? I have never seen one, not a single one. That's completely idiotic, what are they waiting for?

HAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... No way....

Beta Max anyone?

In my opinion no, since that particular format war had a clear winner. In this case I think it is more like SACD vs DVD-A. Two new formats that were competing to replace the CD. Instead they both flopped and the CD is still with us, though it's slowly being replaced by digital music downloads. I think the real winner this time is going to be...plain old DVD. That is until it is replaced by digital movie downloads.

"Beta Max anyone?"

No thank you. I'd rather have MiniDisc (rolls eyes)- lol.

My thoughts exactly.

I'll adopt HDTV when a 30" LCD with 720p/1080i costs less than $500, and has a digital tuner in it, a couple component and HDMI inputs. Not before. I'll adopt Format-X when they stop making DVDs.

I think I'll have a long time to wait.

My thoughts exactly!!!!!!

Most probably you are right. The problem is that the industry is repeats the story over and over again. You mentioned SACD and DVD-A, but in the 70s the industry failed with quad systems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadraphonic The story remains the same.

I expect that both will have a marginal share till the price of holographic discs & recorders will drop what will make them both BR & HD DVD) die. Hitachi Maxell will release holographic versatile discs this year, but they price will be extremely high. Anyway Hitachi plans to enter the market by offering 300 GB discs with a data transfer rate of circa 20 MB/s and the technology will be further developed (in terms of data transfer which will be raised to around 80 MB/s).

haha i just saw a betamax player and a few tapes in a flea-market this last weekend.

I bought my first CD player in 1984, my first Laser Disk Player in 1994 and my first DVD player in 1996, my 1080P HD TV in 2002. My first Blue Ray...not going to happen and I haven't bought an HD-DVD yet either.

Sony and their blue ray counter parts have long since lost grasp of reality.

It's pathetic and risible.

Both high def formats combined only have 0.5% of the whole retail movie disc market right now.

This is sheer propaganda and yet more of the transparent attempts to create 'momentum' by the BD side.....they've been at it since CES & the PS3 US launch.

They know inexpensive HD-DVD is coming (the Toshiba HD A2 is currently $309 on Amazon US and heavily rumoured to be getting a price cut soon).
That's a brand name HD-DVD player at around the $250 level soon - discounted to $200 by Xmas?

......and where does that leave the 3 Chinese brand HD-DVD players due towards the end of the year - sub $150?

Might HD-DVD go on and take the mainstream a/v mass-market?
BD left high and dry as far too expensive for too long and far too reliant on a mere gaming console as just the PS3 proprietary brand - just as UMD is to PSP?
(btw that's a discussion point and a possibility, not a claim of what has or is happening or is bound to happen......see the difference?)

HD-DVD isn't going away anywhere never-mind BD taking over from SD DVD.....in 3 years!?

What a ludicrous idea......or maybe it's an indication of just how desperate some on the BD side are.

The cooler and more sober heads may be going along with this idiotic nonsense because they know the real state of play and what is what for each format and may be very very worried.

BD played it's big card (the PS3) and it did not bring the torrent of BD sales some projected.

Peak week sales of 'The Departed' were 20,000 for BD and 13,000 for HD-DVD.
The SD DVD version sold in multi-millions.

High def DVD is a small spec in the market right now and totally off the radar for the general public.
Trying to make the kind of bombastic and cretinously grandiose sweeping claims the BD side repeatedly keep attempting at this stage is just making them look absurdly idiotic.

There are a lot of people still sitting on the fence, waiting for a clear winner to emerge before taking the plunge. I agree with the repeated attempts to create 'momentum' by declaring themselves the winner. They're thinking this will persuade those people to pick BD. Fat chance. Most people interested in this new technology can see right through their BS. Like I said in my other comment, BD will keep declaring themselves the winner and the format war over.

Three words: delusional delusional delusional

This is what, the third or fourth time now that Blu-Ray announces they've won/are going to win? It just goes to show you how desperate they really are, thinking that wishing it will make it come true. The reality is, neither format is doing too well. Nex gen formats are not being adopted as fast as Hollywood would have you believe. That's not to say HD-DVD is winning or losing, but you never see any concrete numbers. It's always something lame like "Blu-Ray outselling HD-DVD 2:1 during the month of January." Ratios mean nothing without the actual numbers. I mean, if it's 100,000 vs 50,000 sold, that's not much to brag about.

Just because Sony decided to force Blu-Ray on everyone who buys a PS3 doesn't automatically make them the winner. The PS3 is really not doing so well at all. I recall back in December when Sony announced they would ship 6 million PS3 units by the end of March. It's the middle of March now and I don't even think they shipped 2 million yet. Even with lack luster PS3 sales, leave it to Sony, their idiotic fans, and the rest of the Blu-Ray crowd to turn something negative into something positive. Yes, Blu-Ray players are outselling HD-DVD, but that means nothing. Most people who buy a PS3, buy it because it's a console and they want to play games, not because it plays Blu-Ray discs. It's the same thing if Nintendo had decided to ship an HD-DVD drive inside the Wii and gave away free movies with it. They would sell millions of HD-DVD players, but that wouldn't guarantee a win in the next generation format war.

Anyway, be ready for Sony and the rest of the Blu-Ray camp to keep announcing their victory every few months for th rest of the year. Even when the PS3 starts sinking like the Titanic (and it will) Sony and them will absolutely refuse to admit defeat. Kind of reminds me of the Iraqi invasion by the US, their local TV stations kept announcing they've won. They would say Iraqi troops defeated the Americans, even when their capital was being bombed and was obvious they lost.

What arrogant pricks... DVD isn't going any where, and especially not in 3 years.

Sony and the Blu-Ray crowd arrogant?? Perish the thought!!

DVDs will still be everywhere five years from now, much less three. And for some reason, 50G seems somewhat skimpy now that I think about it. Remember how quickly ZIP drives grew before CDs hit the market? When someone builds a terabyte-capacity disc, wake me up. Like many, I can't afford to keep updating all my backups to the latest format (maybe every other format). Between the porn collection, music, and movies, I'll soon need an exabyte drive! I still have some VHS copies laying around somewhere, as pathetic as that is, but hey, they still work just fine, as will my DVDs.

I am not sure if any HD disk will replace DVD in 3 years, certainly not in the U.K. Like lots of people I have a lot of DVDs, not Blu-ray is not backward compatible as far as I know, so how am I going to play all my DVd's? HD-DVd is suppose to play normal DVD's. The other problem is the price, prices will have to drop to DVD leval, in both hardware and films, and since it is possible to buy a DVD player now for about £20, that will be difficult. then you have to get a system that will record, is there any Hd devices out there that will record? the other problem is DRM, too much of it on both the HD formats, which make it difficult to transfer the films onto portable media, not that I would want to, but some people do.

The last point is that not everyone have got a HDTV, I only know 3 people who have a T.V that is capable of playing Hd format. I still have got a normal CRT tube T.V and I am certainly not planning on replaceing it in the net 3 years if I can help it and if I do, I will get another standard CRT, because I don't like the LCD T.V that are around.

The final fianl thing that will stop me getting Blu-ray is that it have something to do with Sony, I stay well clear of anything to do with Sony.

BD has a couple of serious problems.

First off the spec isn't even finalised (there are currently 4 versions knocking about) they're having a meeting, apparantly, at the end of the year to try and finalise things.

Early adopters better hope they don't get left out in the cold!

Then there's the problem that it isn't really designed at a video storage media anyways, bulk data sure but it has some severe limitations with video (which is why the iHD features of HD-DVD are so superior).

The 100gb & 200gb discs use 4 or more layers.
No current BD hardware can use these and there is not the slightest realistic indication these supposedly 'vital' features will ever make it to the mass-market in anything like an affordable form.

After the trouble they had with DL and the costs of their production God only knows how expensive the media would be - I supect they will be low volume ultra expensive 'professional use' media used on ultra expensive low volume 'professional use' hardware.

BTW the USA @ 2005 had 17% HD TV market penetration, Europe and the UK much much less than that.

Yeah right. I jumped into DVD back 1997 when there were maybe 5 or 6 titles available at Best Buy. After all the cash I've dumped into my DVD collection, I'll be damned if I'm gonna re-purchase them all again just because the disk capacity has increased. Blu-Ray wants to be the next DVD, then more power to them...just at long as the players are DVD backwards compatible...otherwise I won't have anything to do with it.

IMO, Blu-Ray is great for storage purposes while HD seems to bode better for movies, etc. All of that is argumentative of course, but that's just what it looks like at this point.

Then there are companies like LG who are going to bring duel format players to the market. This may be the next big thing. The technologies are similar so it doesn't take much to do it. When the duel format comes out and if they are cheap enough people won't just buy HD-DVD or Blu-ray, they will buy multi format players then it'll be win win across the board.

It's not a great surprise if Blu-Ray win because sony are pushing the format by including it with the PS3. Be honest, we all know the console will sell because it has 'Playstation' in the name, and that in itself will be a huge boost for Blu-Ray. I'm sure they could market a lump of turd with the Playstation brand, and endless people would still by it.

Doesn't it bring into question business practices, though?

I am not sure about that. When SNES was hot, Nintendo just took the position as granted, and it never recover until now.

Not when the cheapest player on the market still cost $500.

Good luck with that.

Come on.. Just give me a cheap 50G disk so I can backup my 500G harddrive. So I can stop buying 250-300G drives for backing up data!

I DON'T care about watching movies on them!

I wish one of the formats would hurry up and win. What's going on with that holographic disc format you hear about every once in while? I just want a cheap optical format with the largest capacity possible.

2.08 million PS3's actually, and that was upto the end of Feb, more likely 2.3 by now..

http://www.vgcharts.org/

As for media sales being similar, this again is untrue. It seems HD-DVD has lost in the US, and are trying to get acceptance in Europe as a last ditch attempt to survive..

Unfortunatly, there is no SalesRank as asuch on Amazon, but check out the Amazon top 100.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/...__2/203-4007057-3995935

Blu-Ray titles in the top 20: 1 Title
HD-DVD titles in the top 100: NONE

Blu-ray is seriously not doing well when you consider the number of Blu-ray players that are out there in the form of the PS3 (which is also not doing too well itself). The fact that some Blu-ray backers feel the need to spew nonsensical drivel such as "Blu-ray has already won" or "Blu-ray is taking over in 2008" is indicative of how desperate they really are. Considering the relative dearth of HD DVD titles during much of Q1, it is amazing at how well HD DVD has been selling, and by the looks of it Universal Studios is going to be releasing quite a few titles this year for HD DVD, as will Weinstein, Paramount, Warner and others. There were also a lot of great announcements for HD DVD at CeBit this year (Alpine showed their HD DVD player for vehicles, Venturer is showing their HD DVD player, numerous laptops are going to have HD DVD drives, etc etc etc). It's getting better and better from what I can tell, so HD DVD is going to be around for a long, long time to come.

"It seems HD-DVD has lost in the US"

I think it's a bit soon to be saying that.

Dream on Sony Fanboy...HD-DVD is far from dead and the PS3's are not flying off the shelf. If you think they sold 220,000 in half a month you are delusional.

O no they are expanding to another country they are getting desperate!!! Seriously that is like saying Sony is desperate for launching in the US.

You are using a UK Amazon site to show how badly HD-DVD is losing in the US...Yah ok that makes sense. Who is getting desperate again? Any other stupid comments today Ray?

Give it a few hours he's probably trying to figure out a way to post right now on how the PS3 will outsell all consoles in the next 3 months.:)

You have no life jagoff.

This is a non-article. Of course they are going to say they'll win. It means nothing.

Title is misleading. They're not claiming they'll "replace DVD", they are claiming they'll be the only surviving next-gen format at that point. I hardly think that's a given, at any rate.

You're nit-picking. That's my department.

Regardless, the foregone conclusion here is that *one* of the next-gen formats will eventually replace DVD. Sony is claiming here that they will be, in three years time, the last remaining next-gen format, and thus...the replacement for DVD.

Get it?

Of course, they've jumped the gun. They do that. It's called marketing.

LOL!

"Of course, they've jumped the gun. They do that. It's called marketing."

There's "marketing" and then there's "Sony style marketing", aka. "extra strength idiocy used to mislead consumers and then suffering yet another backlash."

"extra strength idiocy used to mislead careless consumers and then suffering yet another backlash."

There, fixed that for ya.

first hddvd is better and i have a friend that works at walmart and she told me 4 ot of 10 ps3 come back cause they wont play movies bd or games LOL

or maybe because of wal-mart's policy, everyone that has a broken ps3 brings it back to wal-mart because they lost their receipt.

Tisk tisk tisk. Are we in denial?