RSSComcast to roll out 50 Mbps 'wideband' to Philly, Boston, NJ, NH
By Scott M. Fulton, III | Published October 23, 2008, 11:52 AM
With fiberoptic service such as Verizon's FiOS and AT&T's U-verse threatening to absorb current cable Internet customers, Comcast is moving ahead with its goal of leapfrogging over fiber by the end of 2010.
In another step toward its goal of providing DOCSIS 3.0 service nationwide by 2010, Comcast today said it will begin the formal rollout of what it's now calling "wideband" service, with download speeds peaking as high as 50 Mbps, in four more markets: Philadelphia, Boston, and parts of New Jersey and New Hampshire. Availability of very-high-speed service in those areas will come "in the next few weeks," according to a Comcast statement this morning.
New DOCSIS technology, which includes a multiplexing concept called channel bonding, will eventually enable Comcast to offer downstream speeds up to 160 Mbps, the company noted today. Last April, the cable provider began its first tests of DOCSIS 3.0 service in Minneapolis/St. Paul. There, downstream speeds were originally supposed to have approached 100 Mbps, though the service was eventually sold to charter customers as having 50 Mbps downstream speed and 5 Mbps upstream speed, for $150/month.
With this next rollout comes Comcast's formal unveiling of its wideband residential pricing tiers (perhaps an unfortunate choice of terms, since in other fields of broadcasting, "wideband" is considered narrower than "broadband"). The Extreme 50 option will enable downstream speeds of up to 50 Mbps and upstream speeds of up to 10 Mbps, at a price of $139.95 per month. The Ultra tier will offer 22 Mbps downstream and 5 Mbps upstream at $62.95 per month.
Presently, the company offers what it describes as "PowerBoost" service with up to 12 Mbps downstream speeds to some residential areas, for $42.95 per month.
The box that Comcast Extreme and Ultra customers will likely be using to receive their digital service will be this Cisco residential network gateway (RNG), which also serves as a high-def DVR with a 160 MB hard drive. Cisco developed this RNG 200 model to CableLabs specifications in association with Scientific Atlanta; and Comcast has been using it in demonstrations.
This morning, Comcast is saying Extreme 50 customers will be able to download a complete high-definition movie in as little as 16 minutes.
But there remains some skepticism about whether the phrase "high-definition movie" in the above sentence deserves one of those little asterisks. Last January, then writing for ZDNet, George Ou presented some data indicating that what Comcast had been passing off as HD movies may actually be compressed or with lower bitrates. For a full, uncompressed, raw video feed, Ou estimated at that time that a viewer would need a 28 Mbps downstream connection -- which does fall under the realm of possibility for Comcast's Extreme 50 option, but not quite Ultra.
Perhaps the bigger question that Comcast has left on the table this morning is whether its 250 GB/month download cap, which takes effect this month, will also apply to Ultra and Extreme 50 customers. BetaNews is pressing Comcast for the answer to this question this morning.
Should that cap apply to the cable provider's new premium tiers, an Extreme 50 customer could conceivably reach her monthly limit after only about 85 minutes of peak usage, BetaNews estimates. Using Comcast's own numbers as a gauge, that would only enable the download of about five HD movies per month, assuming the customer does nothing else with her service during that month. That would mean the customer pays about $27.99 for each on-demand HD video.
During the rollout period, Comcast says it will be doubling speeds for existing customers, up to 16 Mbps for its "Performance Plus" tier and 12 Mbps for the "Performance" tier.
1:43 pm EDT October 23, 2008 - Comcast spokesperson Lynsey Silvesti confirmed to BetaNews this afternoon that the 250 GB/month download cap instituted this month will also apply to the cable provider's new Extreme 50 and Ultra "wideband" tier customers.
"Please keep in mind, though, that our policy only impacts less than 1% of our customers," Silvesti noted, "so the vast majority of our customers are not impacted." That percentage could grow, however, as more customers are offered the opportunity to download HD movies.
And in a follow-up this afternoon, technologist George Ou reminded us that his claims of low bitrates and compression applied to video-on-demand service, which is presently a streaming service rather than a stored download; and VoD is typically offered on a separate channel from Internet service. However, Comcast did demonstrate VoD over broadband at the last CES, using what were called HD videos but which were actually encoded at low bitrates, streaming at between 4 and 6 Mbps.
Conceivably, Extreme 50 and Ultra customers will be offered uncompressed downloads, though what remains to be seen is whether a similar capacity or throughput cap will be applied to that VoD channel. If not, it could become more cost-effective for viewers to stream movies rather than download them, except for the virtue of (possibly) being able to keep the download.
Ou added that, unless Comcast were to implement quad-channel DOCSIS 3.0 services, he believes its network would not be able to support more than three simultaneous downloaders per neighborhood at one time.
What you folks are failing to mention in your article is that these are maximum capable speeds but Comcast does NOT guarantee any minimum speeds. Comcast could charge you for this faster plan and still only deliver 5-10Mbps to you citing the fine print that guarantees only a maximum speed. We subscribe to the "Power Boost" plan in Portland, Oregon, and we have shoddy service from Comcast at best. We get a 10 Mpbs connection for say 30 minutes, then we get 1200Kbps for 5 minutes, then back to 30 minutes of a strong connection in cycle 24/7. We've had techs out numerous times, and we are told, "We aren't dropping connection. It's just very slow," said with a Cheshire grin. Comcast is an unreliable company that does not deliver on what it promises.
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|I must agree that until the FCC and FTC begin requiring these internet companies to provide a minimum as well as maximum bandwidth guarantee then these bandwidth offers are a shell game and border on fraud. The way the system currently is operated it would be like a car company selling a car guaranteed to get up to 100MPG but it actually only gets 20MPG, but the company gets away with it in court because they said that it gets up TO 100MPG not that it actually gets 100MPG -- and you can't sue them in state court because Comcast hides behind the skirts of the FCC saying that they are federally regulated and the common citizen cannot afford to sue in federal court; or, you're required to participate in binding arbitration that can only be conducted in person in NYC.
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|I just switched form Comcast to FIOS and the FIOS Standard (Home User, No extra charge) I get 20Mbps download and 5Mpbs upload.
FIOS, there is no replacement!!!
PS. NO CAP!!!
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|Good for you. What are you paying?
As for the majority of us, we have the option of one or the other...not both.
..and have you actually gone *over* 250GB?
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|My Internet, TV, Home Phone and Wireless (Which are all on Verizon and put / comes on one Bill) comes to a little over $240 a Month. $85 of that is the Cell. Plus, that includes my 4 TV Box Fees which includes one (1) HD Box.
Yes, I have gone over 250GB. Working in IT now for 14+ Years and doing all sorts of downloads from Software upgrades to streaming movies and BetaNews File downloads, I have more then surpassed 250+GB a month.
FIOS just became available to my area in the last 3 Months and I jumped on it.
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|Okay...lots of numbers. Help me out here: What are you paying for the Internet portion of that bill?
...and it still boggles how you can go above 250GB. I've been in IT was well, for the better part of 14 years (how the heck old *are* you?) and do my share of downloading, but most of my "software upgrades/fixes" are done at work, other than the piddly amount for the 5 computers.
I don't stream movies (Well, scratch that...I streamed on off of Hulu last month), but even then... I *do* play WoW (as does my son), grab around 20GB worth of discs and packages from usenet a month, and listen to Jango pretty much 24/7. Still barely touching 70GB....
How many movies do you stream a month, and what site are you using? Netflix?
(I am not doubting you, I am honestly curious)
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|That's a lot of money just for your cell. I hope that's a family plan. Mines is only $53 a month with taxes.
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|If you do the math, the "3 Pack" runs about $50 for each (Give or take).
Yes I have been in IT since I was 23 / 24 and I am about to be 37.
I stream everything from HULU to the PS3 Network stuff.
Most people don't think / realize but that "CAP" is for all you do. Every email you send, every email you get. All the Streaming you do, it all counts. The first month I had FIOS I was downloading EVERYTHING, simply to put it through it's paces. I don't do as much now, but I surpassed that 250GB in the first month, so problem!
It's the same thing but years later... Years ago, Hard Drives were EXPENSIVE (I remember when I 2GB drive was $200), but now they are cheap. Now the same thing is happening with Bandwidth. The infostructure is out there, it's just getting all the connections in place.
Also with FIOS (Like with Cable) thier Signal is TOTALLY through the cable, so all that download / upload and TV (Including HD) Bandwidth is coming through one cable and on top of that, my 20/5 connection is only half of what they offer. 20/5 is now Standard for Home Customer, Business Customers can now start @ 50/20... THAT'S SOME SPEED!
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|My Cell is really $50, but when you add in all the applications I use and their Monthly rate to keep them, then you get to the extra price.
When I upgrade in March of 2009, trust me it will be cheaper!
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|I want Fios! Want to trade houses? I don't even get DSL! Cable is my only option.
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|Only 85 minutes? Ha! I think you mean 11-12 hours.
Check out Australia's incumbent ISP:
http://my.bigpond.com/in...nsandoffers/default.jsp
You can burn through your download cap on their fastest plan in under 4 minutes. Like actually 4 minutes. 24Mbps plan with a 600MB cap. All for the bargain price of $69.95 (without a bundled phone line). If you go over your 600MB you start paying $150 per GB excess. Trust me, Comcast looks like a fantastic carrier compared to what they shovel us out here. :P
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|600MB?
Are you serious?
*laughing*
Ok...*that* I would have a problem with. That's absurd.
Time to move, man. Seriously.
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|Why not bypass comcast and get WildBlue satelite service? I get 100mgbits down and 250
up for $70 dollars a month.
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|chwest1933 you are not getting 100mb down and 250mb up for 70 a month from satelite, lol Your a freak'n idiot... Stop smoking that stuff... If you look on there website your getting 1.5mb down and 256kb upload.
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|why fool with Comcast,anyway.Why not install a
Sattelite DISH
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|Because Satellite internet service is horrible. Sure it is better than dial up, but it does not compare to cable, dsl or fios.
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|Why dont ATT get thier butts out of bed and start rolling out fibre faster....slackers.
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|should not be hard since they are not running fiber to your house like Verizon is.
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|FIOS!!!!
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|i have 16/2 charter and i have 5 desktops, and download alot all the time along with something streaming all the time, and never went of 80gb according to the dd-wrt
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|Try living within your means.
Faster!=more.
This constant whine for more, needed or not, feasible or not, without any regard for anyone else *is* what is destroying the country.
You people think you deserve *everything* handed to you on a silver platter, *now*. What a bunch of spoiled, instant-gratification junkies, hopped up on their own overblown sense of entitlement.
God forbid anyone should ever tell them, "This is what we're offering. If you don't like it, shove it."
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|I remember thinking if 56k [on 56k modems] were actually 56k downloads, I'd be happy.
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|Some people just can't be happy, I guess.
One might suggest they get counseling for that...
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|The capping is frustrating - higher speed would be nice - already 8mbps feels slooow, but Comcast cannot stick to its guns - on local radio here (KFly, Eugene, Oregon) in a DJ read advert, they say that their connection is great for students who want to download all tyhe latest stuff - I heard this advert yesterday, the 22nd. Isn't that the type of usage they want to block?
Will be interesting t9o try though - why drag out going over quota until the end of the month when you can do it in the first week! :)
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|i don't get it, faster speed, download more content, CAPPED. use up your paid for line speed faster.
how does it even make sense.
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|How about you download the same amount you do now...faster.
Why does everyone seem to think they have to *max* their available bandwidth 24/7?
How does *that* make sense??
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|Just a math comment--the speeds being discussed here are Mbps (the little b is bits, not bytes). Often download rates are expressed in Mbps instead of the more understandable MB/s rate we'd like to use. Since there are 8 bits in a byte, and possible parity (8-1-N, anyone?), a factor of 8 or 9 needs to be applied. Thus the Extreme 50 customer could conceivably download 250 GB in ~12 hours, not 85 minutes. By this same math, the Hi-Def movie that is presented by Comcast would be ~5.3 GB.
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|Perhaps the bigger question that Comcast has left on the table this morning is whether its 250 GB/month download cap, which takes effect this month, will also apply to Ultra and Extreme 50 customers. BetaNews is pressing Comcast for the answer to this question this morning.
How many "High definition" sites are actually out there? My guess is very, very few.
*shakes head*
For that likely less than 1% of users who might actually bump that limit, Comcast should do nothing. They can bump the limit, they can get business class service if they need more.
When HD streaming breaks to maybe 10%, then Comcast will likely reconsider and raise the cap.
*checks router logs*
Just bumped over 70GB last month (Woo! first time over 70)...and that includes traffic from all of our PCs, both to and from the net, and to and from other PCs on the network (and that is *with* WHS running in the closet).
This is family of 5, folks. 2 desktops, 3 laptops, and one server. Both my son and I play WoW, and my wife is a craigslist and freemarket addict.
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|I didn't even think of checking my router logs for bandwidth usage. I'll have to do that when I get home. Thanks!
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|I use a linksys router with the 3rd party DD-WRT firmware. This is how I get my usage statistics. I do not think the default linksys firmware gives you it, at least not in any kind of easily readable log format.
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|Yeah, DD-WRT is so friggin' sweet. DD-WRT has always worked great with all my routers. Except for my new Linksys WRT160N. A few weeks back I installed it but they don't seem to play well with each other. Nothing to do but wait for the next update and try again.
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|Dude, you realize the Blu rips take at least 6GB per movie these days? You can't tell me your whole family is downing less than 12 rips per month...
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|*laughs*
Try again. I have that same router. Works like a dream.
There's a caveat with the 160N. for some reason you *must* apply the mini before the standard.
Apply dd-wrt.v24_mini_generic.bin first, and then hit it with the dd-wrt.v24_std_generic.bin
(Mini, then Standard)
Works like a charm.
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|*laughing my a** off*
Dude, you realize the Blu rips take at least 6GB per movie these days?
Dude...
Blu rips? Oh, you mean illegally ripped copies of some movie released recently in "High Def"?
No, sorry. Can't say as I've downloaded any of that crap.
My kids still watch that Harry Potter garbage, which we already have on DVD. Since our SDTV still works just fine, we have no intention of replacing it.
You can't tell me your whole family is downing less than 12 rips per month...
Yes, actually. I think I can.
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|I at one times used DDWRT and hated how it had random problems. Internet would drop out randomly. Over time speeds would slow and it would need a restart. P2P would completely kill web browsing. I switched to Tomato and have had no problems since.
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|Never had a problem with DD-WRT, but wouldn't mind checking out the alternatives.
This Tomato Firmware got a website?
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|Relax, just messing with you... :)
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|0100101001100101011100100110101100101110
Take that.
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|Sure.
http://www.polarcloud.com/tomato
It has videos of it in action. There was also a website made by a user of the firmware in action but it's a tad out of date, unfortunately.
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|What about the people that watch HD porno?
Dont forget about them...LOL
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|I didnt see any usage data in my logs...
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|Been there done that, that was the first thing I did, mini then standard. I always do a lot of research before I mess with any firmware. But now I'm really pissed off. Why the hell am I having problems with my 160N. Well I guess I'll be flashing and reflashing all night long till I get that damn thing to work. (Unless I'm the only unlucky F#@Ck that got faulty hardware)
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|Tomato is fairly awesome. But for speed/stability, I found HyperWRT to be the best. What it lacks in features it makes up in stability and performance. I think my record was a 6-month uptime, no reboots. :P
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|Sure you were, I'll call the MPAA now. What's your address?
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|The reboot thing I don't get. I haven't needed to reboot since I got the router and updated the firmware to DD-WRT v.24.
*shrug*
Some routers handle it worse than others, obviously. It's good to have more than one option though, especially for cases like that.
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|I resad somewhere you cannot "underclock" your router's CPU with Tomato...have they fixed that since the post I read (dated March 07)?
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|I wonder if there might be different versions of the "160N" floating around....
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|-... .- ... - .- .-. -..
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|59 65 73 2e 20 20 59 65 73 20 49 20 61 6d 2e 20 0d 0a 0d 0a 48 6f 77 27 64 20 79 6f 75 20 67 75 65 73 73 3f
...and damn you for making me look up a morse translator. ;)
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|Oh, just familiar with the subject... ;-)
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|Questions:
So for those of us with FiOS, are we going to see better competition with faster speeds soon... or let Comcast have their fun for a while before Verizon starts rolling out ludicrous data rates?
With this technology, shouldn't TV providers be able to rollout more HD channels faster than they are now?
...that aren't so compressed (Comcast)?
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|50Mbps hua??? Sounds like they really don't have a bandwidth problem, and don't need to be capping user's usage.
It is a tactical decision to put in road blocks before streaming HD cuts into cable providers profits.
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|They'll probably cap it anyways.....
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|*laughs*
...and you seem to think have a great understanding of network traffic/congestion issues, do you?
2GB is 2GB. You can transfer it @ 50mbps or at 6mpbs.
Which do you think will cause more congestion?
Neither. Speed has *nothing* to do with it. That's why they cap *usage*, not speed (beyond your service plan limits).
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|It does, but in a different way.
The person with the faster connection has a higher maximum download ability in a month than the person on the slower broadband.
It's theoretically possible to download 20,736,000Mb (~ 2,531GB) in a month on an 8Mb connection.
Whereas on a 50Mb line, 129,600,000Mb (~ 15,820GB) is theoretically possible.
It is therefore more likely that the person on the higher speed broadband will download more in a month as their downloads will finish faster and so will have more time to download more. Your bog-standard user isn't going to be ordering this service at the moment, it is likely to be a heavy user and so that assumption can safely be made.
Obviously it's impossible to get this in real life, but you grasp my point.
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|Just because you can download faster does not mean you need to download *more*.
In fact, it means simply, especially in the case of Comcast, that you can download the *same* amount....faster.
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|I agree, however, as I pointed out it is only hardcore downloaders for the moment that are going to sign up for this.
It is precisely that 1% of high-bandwidth users who are going to sign up and are therefore likely to download more.
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|I agree, however, as I pointed out it is only hardcore downloaders for the moment that are going to sign up for this.
And where did your crystal ball go wrong when I signed up for it? (It's been in my area for a while now).
It is precisely that 1% of high-bandwidth users who are going to sign up and are therefore likely to download more.
You are assuming a lot here. Mom&Pop want the fastest too. they hate feeling like they are behind the Joneses.
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|I bet you'll download more now.
Though now I've said that I've nullified the bet as you will put effort in to not downloading more.
Ah well. Another theory is put back on the shelf for another time.
Of course there'll be the odd person who wants to look the coolest by paying the most for a service that's only a bit faster than what they've already got instead of waiting and either the price coming down or your speed being automatically put up.
But then there's one born every minute. :P
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|I bet you'll download more now.
I have. Did you miss the "70GB First time!" bit? ;)
Of course there'll be the odd person who wants to look the coolest by paying the most for a service that's only a bit faster than what they've already got instead of waiting and either the price coming down or your speed being automatically put up.
Um, FYI? 50mbit is quite a bit faster than 10mbit.
Is this math thing confusing you?
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