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Course Change for OpenDocument Developers Seen as Emerging Rift

By Scott M. Fulton, III, BetaNews

October 30, 2007, 12:17 PM

(continued from previous page)

The remaining case for the ODf format

In a comment to BetaNews last June (prior to this op-ed's publication), Martin tried to frame the problem ahead of them as balancing the competing interests of a greater evil and a lesser evil. First, he made the case that Massachusetts was in error in assuming the ECMA 376 standard they were accepting as equally valid as ODf, was really the same format as OOXML. "Large hunks of Ecma 376 are simply undocumented," Martin told us. "And what's more, absolutely no vendor has a feature-ful app that writes to that format. Not even Microsoft. There's a myth that Ecma 376 is the same as the Office Open XML used by Microsoft. It is not."

The only benefit of having standards compete with each other on a level playing field with no help from the audience, if you will, is to enable better error messages telling the user what complies and what doesn't, Martin continued.

"None of this is to say that OpenDocument is perfect. Far from it," he added. "OpenDocument at present is crippled from an interoperability standpoint...I think the resistance of the big vendors to fixing the interoperability warts is simply outrageous, particularly because they are fairly trivial changes. But the advancement of software users' interests are not advanced by painting OOXML as other than deeply flawed. It is vendor-specific and far from 'open.' The lesser of the two evils is clearly OpenDocument, which is at least open even if not yet interoperable."

In the abundance of comments like these, IBM's most vocal ODf format advocate, Rob Weir, has recently taken the opportunity to paint Martin and Edwards into a corner.

"However, in recent months the OpenDocument Foundation has found itself more and more isolated, outside of the mainstream debate," wrote Weir earlier this month, adopting a tone not unlike a Democratic presidential candidate trying to distance himself from the field. "How far they have fallen can be seen in the fact that Microsoft has gone from ridiculing their conspiracy theories to using them to support their arguments. At the same time the Foundation's membership has dwindled to the point where a small number remain, while former members have disassociated themselves from the Foundation as it turned increasingly to strident rhetoric. Whereas in the early days, the Foundation had a large membership that participated fully in the OASIS TC's, now their 'contributions' are mainly that of heckling and haranguing the other members."

IBM is one vendor - among Sun and Novell - who have heavy investments in ODf's future viability.

Such comments from both sides of the internal ODf debate prompted this response from Microsoft corporate standards director Jason Matusow: "There are many document formats out there. Innovation will continue to push technology forward (especially in the applications) and thus the need for evolution and flexibility with document formats will continue to move forward at a rapid pace as well. Now, with the push towards standardization of these formats the argument is one of consolidation. Yet this does not jive with the actual situation in the marketplace. The OpenDocument Foundation could not be making this point any clearer for me. They had hoped one technology was going to get to a certain result, but that result did not materialize. So, they are now hoping the next one will do it for them."

Perhaps the unpleasantness of the impending debate is compelling the new da Vinci project advocates to jump to the end, perhaps prematurely. In a response to a recent blog post, Gary Edwards described CDF as, "Finally we have a single file format that everyone can agree on." If everyone could perhaps agree on anything, it is that this statement remains a very elusive dream.

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By zridling

posted Oct 31, 2007 - 11:04 PM

Once again, pitdingo nails the point. The OpenDocument Foundation has been held in contempt for some time, since they sided with MS-OOXML during ISO, claiming it was inevitable. No it wasn't, and as we saw, MS-OOXML was shot down hard.

Also, "CDF" isn't a file format. It is a framework for combining different formats in a single document. Some browsers already support XHTML files containing SVG and MathML; these are compound documents by inclusion. Normal web pages could be considered compound documents by reference with CSS and SVG being referenced by XHTML. The combination of XHTML, CSS, and XForms are the WICD profile. In essence, CDF is an expansion to include other open documents, among which are mobile and portable.

Score: 0

By pitdingo

posted Oct 31, 2007 - 8:22 AM

The real ODF group is:
http://www.odfalliance.org/memberlist.php

There are three people in the OpenDocument Foundation: http://opendocumentfoundation.us/we.htm

Who cares what these three M$ shills think? ODF has lost nothing. ODF is _not_ the closed M$ OOXML. Of course there will be a loss when converting documents as M$ formats are horrible, undocumented, and closed. Not even M$ makes something that is fluent in M$ OOXML; it is impossible.

Score: 0

By sumone

posted Oct 31, 2007 - 3:53 PM

And besides, OOXML is open, not proprietary/closed and fully documented (in fact documentation is so detailed that a full implementation is what developers are whining about).

Score: 0

By JeremyGNJ

posted Oct 31, 2007 - 11:36 AM

you need to stop regurgitating Slashdot "knowledge".

The ODF Alliance is a political organization. Their sole purpose is to "promote" the ODF standard.

The OpenDocument Foundation is a technical organization that actually tries to MAKE IT WORK.

Compare the "Projects and Activities" section of ODF to the Press releases and newsletters of the OpenDocument Alliance.

I dare you.

Score: 0

By pitdingo

posted Oct 31, 2007 - 12:18 PM

so a couple of dudes that attend various meetings and conferences about ODF and have _nothing_ to do with that actual format specification have drunk the M$ kool-aide?

these clowns have done nothing. Check your facts...

Score: 0

By sumone

posted Oct 31, 2007 - 7:58 AM

"The richness of MSOffice features and business process development cannot fit into ODf without suffering loss of fidelity (or loss of presentation information)." is the real reason why MS abandoned their binary formats, yet their new XML format is not ODF. But who would believe this? The world is full of MS haters.

Score: 0

By zridling

posted Oct 31, 2007 - 3:35 AM

Actually, CDF is a very good evolution, which will free up a variety of open document formats from the mud-in-the-gears that has become the standards process. It does NOT hamper ODF. The major problem was catching up various programs — among them OpenOffice — to the annual changes in the ISO spec. It takes 2-3 years just to implement an x.1 or x.2 update. CDF's governance is with the W3C, which has unquestionable integrity, and it can do what neither ODF nor MS-OOXML can: go mobile.

Score: 0

By templar™

posted Oct 30, 2007 - 9:25 PM

This is a sad day for the open source community.

Even more sad is to realise that vendors who back open source may have their own dirty agendas.

Score: 0

By PhoenixPath

posted Oct 30, 2007 - 3:46 PM

Proof that, "The end of the story" never, in fact, is.

I suppose the same could be said for the "final nail in the coffin", or the "last word".

Score: 0

By DraconPern

posted Oct 30, 2007 - 3:46 PM

IBM, Sun, Novell writing a format for documents? They probably wrote it using vi or emacs. :) No wonder it fails.

Score: 0

By JeremyGNJ

posted Oct 30, 2007 - 2:36 PM

Wow. ODF was the open-source mascot just a few months ago.

Score: 0