Dave,

Amazon is completely sold out of XBOX 360 HD-DVD add on's.

Again.

I hear they have a whole warehouse full of new Sony BD players though. The difference is, not one person who owns an 360 will run out and buy a BD player because the add-on is sold out everywhere. Unlike the PS3, which people got tired of waiting for and bought a 360 instead.

There lies the beauty of M$ logic, there is no option for people who own 360 and want to watch HD-DVD's other than to wait for the add-on to become available again. It's either that or they have to go out and spend $350-400 on a stand alone HD-DVD, which no one will do.

www.thedvdwars.com
www.nexgenwars.com
www.gamesystemwars.com
www.thelookandsoundofperfect.com

I'm sure this $3700.00 notebook will save the format though.

I happen to agree with every word you said.

That is the lamest attempt yet. But you are absolutely correct as usual.

I agree, your attempt to clone Dave is so lame. But, I'm inclined to agree with everything you said as well.

Wow, It's great to see we all finally agree. Thanks guys, you're alright in my book.

YEY

Begun, the clone wars have.

Im covered.

as i see it BR can store more data so as long as they can make enough to lower the price it seems like the better choice

Dell also sold systems with ZIP drives, that certainly became the medium of choice because Dell and Gateway installed them. Oh, no it didnt. Blu-Ray will be like ZIP. Currently it holds more data then competeing storage medium but the masses arent even using DVD-R's to the full extent. For 70% of the public or more they are still trying to figure out how many pictures will fit onto a 700MB CD. Since they dont know, they can buy a pack of 50 CD's for $12 and not care if they are used to the full extent or not. The almighty dollar will be the deciding factor. Betamax cost more then VHS.

1 L I l i !

This really is the last straw for the HD-DVD camp.

Blu-Ray is now the mainstream format of choice, I would anticipate HD-DVD to have been completely swallowed by the summer.

HD-DVD R.I.P

I don't think anyone will be winning this battle just buy having their drive in laptops.

Only thing this may do is ensure bluray will stick around from a data standpoint.

It's not just the laptops, Blu-Ray is fighting the battle on all fronts.

1/ It's got the PC side sown up nicely
2/ It's got the games side sorted with the PS3
3/ It's got the movie studios onboard
4/ It's got the vast majority of the hardware manufacturers onboard
5/ It's got more storage space.

There is basically NOTHING that is lacking in the Blu-Ray camp, they have just been slow to the party.

"2/ It's got the games side sorted with the PS3"

???

Xbox360 outsells it by a longshot. Even the Wii is selling better now. #2 shouldn't be counted at all.

The nicest thing about this whole BR-vs-HDDVD is the competition-vs-price benefit to us (consumers). I'm glad there's two competing formats. Otherwise there'd be no reason for them to cut prices and win customers.

Now a fake HoIIywood also?

Good thing I cant be faked I just made the piague201 account myself.

Fake hoiiywood post, must be Marky

1/ It's got the PC side sown up nicely Yes

2/ It's got the games side sorted with the PS3
No

3/ It's got the movie studios onboard
They both do

4/ It's got the vast majority of the hardware manufacturers onboard
No

5/ It's got more storage space.
Yes

Thats the real breakdown marky.

"There is basically NOTHING that is lacking in the Blu-Ray camp, they have just been slow to the party."

Sometimes that's all that matters--all we can do now is speculate though, I'm for less guessing anyway since we will all find out for sure sooner or later...

I don't have to worry here; but...
Note to self, do not use "I"'s and "l"'s for account names.

I agree with my more attractive twin.

It's not Mark, it's probably Dave. Mark seems a little more adult.

He's right though, HD-DVD is finished.

Excellent :)

Here is a photo tour:
http://us.gizmodo.com/ga...n-photo-tour-220929.php

That was the same case for the PS2 vs xbox, that wasnt reason enough for me to go buy another PS2 though once the laser finally just went dead.

Junk.

"Dell on Monday became the latest manufacturer to support Sony's Blu-ray discs in its notebook computers"

Since when has Blu-Ray been a soley Sony format?

True, there are 100+ members of the Blu-Ray Disc Association (BDA) [http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_developers] however, it's widely known that Sony played the largest role in the design, test and development of this spec and the products which have first arrived on the market.

Anyone has any data on the durability of BR-discs?
like, if you scratch it a little bit, would it still work like CDs or DVDs?

http://en.wikipedia.org/...Hard-coating_technology

Comparing hard disks to static disk storage like Blu-Ray and HD-DVD and so on is apples vs oranges. They serve different purposes. Nobody with a brain "backs-up" data on hard drives for long-term archival. Too bulky. Blu-Ray, etc. are intended for offline, long-term archival. However, taking that a step further, what's to say there will be Blu-Ray players around in 20 years to continue using them? The Library of Congress and the Holocause Museum wrestled with those same concerns. With changes to storage mediums becoming more frequent, how do you plan ahead for recovering data in 20 years? Remember 5-1/4 floppies? How many 5-1/4 drives do you see laying around now? When the last one dies, where do you get parts to repair it? Blu-Ray and DVD will be that way also someday.

It will become increasingly important to stop and roll all your legacy data off of older media to newer media to avoid losing the ability to recover it. Like we don't have enough to do already.

Would you suggest going back to stone age living to avoid complications?

Trust me, I've been doing it since the early 80s and it has eaten years of my time, it seems. For anything you want to be truly permanent, print it on a sheet of 100% cotton paper and store the paper in a safe, dry place. Otherwise, let's all get back on the merry-go-round!

I'd only recommend this if you're archiving pictures of stick men killing mammoths.

It does work very well for this type of media, although it is highly-specialised. ;-)

hey hey they kill other things too. like deer and stuff.

Too bulky? You think 5 DL Bluray discs, with protection, are going to be smaller than a 250GB HDD? Hard drives are one of the few storage formats that stay fairly constant.

how about the new 2.5" 300Gb hard drive from Fujitsu? i bet that even at 4200 rpm it reads just as fast, if not faster than a BR disk.

"(after purchasing the necessary playback software)"

haha nice!

From what I've seen, PowerDVD should play it in its new version of the software.

From reading the post I see most are taken away by the price, and I am too. But I think this is a good push. This has its pros and cons, but I think its for the better.

Its expensive now, but mass storage on a single disk is very benificiary. Like I've stated before , he PC realm is wehre blu-ray will leave its mark (not blu-ray movies). I'd rather store more PC data.

Like Hollywood says though. Its still cheaper to just buy a HD though. But as the price goes down this well be a better alternative than to buying multiple HD's. I'd rather have a cd case with 1 Terabyte of data (20 disks, 50 Gigs each), than have 5-10 HD's in my closet.

its still even cheaper to back up on dvd then it is to use br at the moment.

Yeah that true, I'm just speculating about 2-3 years in the future. Id rathr use 1 blu-ray disk for 50gigs than 11-12 DVDs. OR 6-7 DL DVDs

At the current price curve, buying the cheapest per GB, 3-4 hard drives is much more realistic and the cheapest route to reach 1TB.

"Yeah that true, I'm just speculating about 2-3 years in the future"

...as HD (and flash memory, solid-state replacements) prices also continue to plummet?

Would you? I'd rather have 10 DVD's and loose 1 with 4.7 gig of data, than loose 1 BR disk with 50 gigs of data

In 8 years I haven't had that problem. Could happen I guess, just depends on how well you keep track of your stuff. A HD can go out too, then you have lost 200-300 gigs of data at once. I've lost 100 gigs on a HD once.

Backing up your critical data to any optical media is the kiss of death. Those lovely CRC errors are wonderful.

All I was saying is using CD, DVD, BD or HD-DVD to back up important information is insane. Our company urges us to back up all of our data to a separate hard drive at least once a week. We use an exchange server with SharePoint and the day before any of us have to fly with our notebooks, it's mandatory.

I've never had CRC errors, but I have had a HD go dead on me. I guess its a classic tale of pick your disaster.

I love it, it doesn't come with the Blu-Ray movie playback software. Yet another way to screw the unsuspecting customers who don't know any better. "Oh, you want to watch Blu-Ray movies? Pay Dell."

A 100GB HD with an external USB 2.0 case only costs about 60-70 dollars which is a way better way to backup data, plus you an actually access the data on any other computer, unlike Blu-Ray disc.

I got my 300GB with ext. case for under $100.00 from Tiger Direct so I don;t know what the big attraction would be to a BD drive.

The same would go for an HD-DVD drive on a computer as well. Unless you have to have HD movies on the plane they are both kind of useless.

A home theater PC would benefit however, have you ever seen a direct VGA/DVI into a DLP projector? The picture is absolutely stunning, better than any DVD player I have ever seen.

Stop offering cheap low end gadgets to people.
You retailer or what?
You cant make people swallow crap you offer...
people trust the big brands out there not some shoe sellers.

Here some news @ CES 2007 for you to think about.

"Okay... now for a bit of high-def news. I said on Friday that you can expect some major title announcements at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in January. Well, I wasn't kidding and we've got a bit of follow-up for you.

I've just spoken today with Eric Maehara, VP of Communications for Buena Vista Home Entertainment. He informed me that the studio is planning to announce a MAJOR Blu-ray Disc release line-up for the first half of 2007 at CES. In addition, he reiterated to me in no uncertain terms that BVHE has no plans to support HD-DVD, despite persistent online rumors to the contrary.

I've also spoken this afternoon with Steve Feldstein, Senior VP of Corporate and Marketing Communications for 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment. He likewise confirmed that Fox has no plans to support HD-DVD, and that the studio will also be announcing additional Blu-ray Disc titles at CES."
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

i notice that he didnt actually offer brands for his product, only an example of where to find a better deal. if anything you look more like a sony rep than anything. compared to a hard drive, bd is s***, as i could play a hd- mpeg-4 off the hard drive with less cost. i could even buy a few hard drives to hold hd movies and swap them out cheapper than buy a br player and the expensive movies.

Calm down Marky Jr. Just because he can find alternatives to blu-ray recorders doesnt' automatically make him an enemy of your fanboy ass.

Cool, did you ask him how the Divx thing went over in 1999?

Also, you keep saying things like "our" and "we've" over at the "official" Blu-Ray forums like you belong to some organization or are important to Blu-Ray in some way, except you don't even own a BD player.

Have you even been to CES or CEDIA? I've been to both. The CES has turned into a giant "auto show" environment with every phone manufacturer on the planet pushing their garbage. The CES has nothing to do with high end electronics, it's open to the public so they cater to the lemmings. It's a dirty hole with way to many "vendors".

The CEDIA show is way more refined, they don't allow people to sell RAZR's and it is by private registration only. It's all set up for the people who are actually in the business of selling and installing home theater, audio, and automation systems. Which you aren't.

The only people who really matter are the salesman at the stores who actually know the difference between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. And guess what, any self respecting, well informed videophile will tell you BD is inferior.

You my friend are the biggest idiot of all because you don't even support the formats that you are cheerleading for. How is anyone in here supposed to take you seriously when you don't own a BD player or a single BD movie?

I have put the money into both formats, I've seen them both, and I know what grainy and artifacting looks like. I am probably the most picky person you have ever seen when it comes to video adjustments on my DLP projector. When you take that Blu-Ray picture to 110", you can really see the problems. I'm sure it looks great on 42 inch plasmas where they can hide all the flaws.

You follow this format war like it's the only thing you have in your life. Are you married? Girlfreind? Anything? I don't see how you could be with all the time you spend posting your opinions about Blu-Ray.

Once again you are in here posting words that aren't your own, hoping to swing an some poor bas**** to the Blu-Ray camp.

"You follow this format war like it's the only thing you have in your life. Are you married? Girlfreind? Anything?"

He plays Wolrd of Warcraft all day...

Yah for $3,699 those will really fly off the shelfs.*wink*

it's one of the best performing gaming laptops for the price. It will fly off the shelves.

it would fly off the shelf faster when it is $700 cheaper without the BR disk.

I don't get it. Don't buy it. No one is forcing you. They'll probably come out with a choice soon.

I won't buy it, but my "complaining" is based on the fact that Dell really truley was the best--and then the higher ups they decided to make quick money then leave the company in ruin, as every other PC company has. It started when Michael Dell left his CEO position, and it keeps getting worse...

Sounds like some good advice to me. I'll be buying a System76 laptop when I get the money as opposed to this Windows and Blueray infested garbage.

Wow a $3,699 laptop cost. I am sure it will sell.

It is official: Dell has found yet another way to lose money and alienate faithful customers--what will they think up next?

The laptop is $3699 that alone is enough to alienate most.

How exactly are they alienating faithful customers?

If Dell is being this stupid in what hardware they financially support, it only means more market loss. They have lost the communication channel that used to exist between the customer and them--it's all about third party vendors now. Should have known this when they purchased alienware--I missed it, though.

Dell, I so wished you had heard the comments from years ago and followed as they turned into the one I'm writing today. I truley wish you would turn around--you were, at least in my view, the last PC manufacturer I could trust. Sadley, the past year of financial mistakes and diminishing support have caused me to lose any and all faith in your PCs. Yes, you would always tell me the parts were the "cheapest ones we could get", but the support, engineering reliability, and tight integration and compatibility testing gave you the edge. Without these things, you're just another HP, and based on the Q3 reports, I am not alone in my way of thinking.

giving customers an option is stupid? Thats first time I heard of that.

BD recorder makes a lot of sense for lots of people, even when expensive - for example people who shoot video can easily store data for editing, especially HD video which takes up a lot of space.

But thats beyond the point - giving customers an choice is an winning strategy. BD recorder seems like $600 option, which isnt bad at all.

I am sure many of people here will enjoy when brave Apple computers introduces new BD recorders for their computers :-)

They are targeting a niche plain and simple. Dell has, and will continue to, cater to this market. Previous high end XPS systems sold, so why quit now? Clearly this laptop isn't for everybody, Dell knows this.

"giving customers an option is stupid? Thats first time I heard of that."

The whole point is that they are purposely leaving out an option--namely HD-DVD--and have already stated Blu-ray would be their format of choice. I was just thinking that perhaps they would change their minds when the numbers were in, but that was kind of stupid for me to think.

Looking at it objectively, I can see that you are actually quite right--Blu-Ray is not a reason to dislike Dell in any way. I've just been upset with Dell recently over other things, and clearly that mindset gave me heavy bias towards this issue.

I still hope Dell will become a neutral party and offer HD-DVD recorders eventually as well as Blu-Ray; I cannot say at this point that that will never happen.

See? It wasn't that hard for me to admit I was wrong, was it? So, what's stopping fanboys (not the guys in here--not yet anyways) from being able to do that?

Yeah, I do still agree that using DVDs for backup is still the much easier and cheaper solution overall--although having 5 DVDs vs. 1 Blu-Ray disc for backup? Blu-Ray does at least sound a little more convenient there.

There are of course many business decisions related to why they used BD-Roms as opposed to HD-DVD's.Perhaps they are offering Blu-Ray because of a volume discount offered by Sony to make up for the battery fiasco? (Just realized, are they using Sony drives?)

I'm sure HD will be offered in the future too.

I'm an avid fan of HD-DVD movies, but not recorders. On the PC side I'd rather have the higher storage space. Here, I think the HD-DVD side is wasting there time.

I could see maybe using BD-ROM for mastered(aka final content) but editing? A hard disk is much more effective for that task.

Yeah, I do still agree that using DVDs for backup is still the much easier and cheaper solution overall--although having 5 DVDs vs. 1 Blu-Ray disc for backup?
Don't forget hard drives, not only are they larger and cheaper per GB than Bluray, they are reliably reusable.

I wont argue HD's arent good, but I'd hate to keep opening up my computer just to swap HD's to get the content I want. Not to mention having to keep track of whats on the Hd's to begin with.

What's so hard about plugging them into external USB cages?

No need to swap, and much faster than any CD\DVD tech currently on the market.

Ive never used external devices. Seems fine if you look at it that way though. But then external is not cheaper either. Eitherway, the HD is still bulkier than a few disks.

they make hot swap containers that fit in via 5.25 bay, and then you use a drawer like thing to swap them. they cost only about 30 for the hot swap bay and a drawer, plus extra ones can be aquired for like 15 each. and you can swap them on the fly as well.

I can see that being useful for a business, but alas all I ever need to backup is 'downloaded' software. I have no need to spend extra money when I've never had problems with disks. Evryone keeps saying HD is better, but everyone is assuming HD's are perfect and never fail.