Will be interesting to see how many of those they move, and how many convert to something less obtuse when they can't take it anymore.

The sad thing is with Ubuntu being free and a install base not being tracked, well all linux distro's are like that. Who really knows what the numbers are. the only thing that can be tracked is how many licenses microsfot sells to oem's and at retail. This goes for the entire world. So you can't say linux isn't making progress. I mean most people who know computers know linux is out there.

If the linux community can get more organized, make progress with support through oem's, hardware companies for drivers and game developers. There really is no reason why Linux can't actually gain a better reputation and some serious well documented market share, say 30 percent plus.

Linux is not that bad if you have a common set of hardware typically it installs without a hitch and your ready to rock. its so easy most of the time its almost boring. Now if something goes wrong, driver not there, having some issues with video card. Well your screwed. Linux is free typically, microsoft costs big money for a license, at least 90 dollars for oem.

So lets give microsoft some competition. This is a start isn't it? People hate microsoft owning the entire industry, bossing companies around and taking their sweet time with upgrades and new features not to mention price. Microsoft needs some competition to whip them into shape.

Most people don't even know what linux with kde or gnome looks like. I mean if the average person uses it for internet, writing emails, typing a letter for college. That is all they need, literally right after install. Everything is all set, and it looks and works just like windows! That is if everything is working well. Get to that command line interface with x out of commission, well good luck with that.

I mean most people who know computers know linux is out there.

Most folks know VW rabbits exist. That must mean they're doing Really Well™.

If the linux community can get more organized, make progress with support through oem's, hardware companies for drivers and game developers. There really is no reason why Linux can't actually gain a better reputation and some serious well documented market share, say 30 percent plus.

lmao... The Linux community...organized...can't stop...laughing...

Get to that command line interface with x out of commission, well good luck with that.

The same as being pushed into recovery mode when windows fails. Both would likely require a support call. Both systems have that "little used" fall back that only the technologists really know anything about. That's not really an argument for or against.

You're an optimist. I like that. I just don't see Linux every solidifying into one unified system, which is basically what it would take to seriously go after some of that market share (IMO).

Dell just re-gained my business.

Thanks for listening! Yes, I voted for Ubuntu on Dell laptops.

Reasons to 'purchase' Ubuntu on Dell PCs:

It's not like you're not pirating Windows already, so you may as well negate the cost from the price of your system.

- EXACTLY -

This discussion is really kind of awkward with people coming at it with their own perspectives.

A couple points.

The typical home user is not likely to go with Linux, at least not yet. So no sales there.

The advanced home user (who wants Linux) probably builds his or her own PC. So no sales there.

Now, the real customer is likely the business customer. Businesses don't want users installing software, they are tired of trying to protect Windows from malware (note, I am not saying Windows is "bad"--sometimes it is, but it is also the biggest target out there for malware writers), and nothing irritates an IT department more than people "configuring" their own machines.

Imagine an office of linux PCs where all people could use them for is work--it's a dream come true. If an IT department is Linux-capable, it could greatly reduce some support costs.

Those are likely the customers Dell will be targeting.

Or better yet, the IT department could let them use software they already are familiar with, not have to deal with the hassle of retraining windows users, and just install a product like DeepFreeze or use thin clients (RDP).

Problem solved.

Or even better yet, train the users and set permissions and policies. :) Works 100% of the time.

I can see many cases for home users to pick Linux over Windows.

The only argument against it is the need for less than 1/2 a dozen productivity applications, or gaming.

What else is there?

LOL Re-train Windows users, come on.

If you can't figure it out you shouldn't be on the computer in the first place.

Thanks.
;-)

"If you can't figure it out you shouldn't be on the computer in the first place."

Exactly...Most people shouldn't be allowed in front of a computer. Part of the problem with Windows security is the sheer amount of stupid people in the world.

Riiiight. Tell that to businesses. Sorry, you shouldn't hire people who can't use Linux.

Yeah, that'd go over Really Well™.

You don't hire based on skill, and the ability to learn?

Windows is an interface, like a mechanic can fix all brands as they are similar, so should a staff member be able to use any OS.

Dell better staff up in Bangalore. Imagine the tech support calls they're going to get from Joe and Susie Homemaker trying to get their Windows-only apps and games to run on Linux. It's going to be a blast. Good time to move to Bangalore.

Actually, if you look closely at the various press releases, you'll note that the Ubuntu Dells are being targeted at Linux users; there will be no telephone tech support for the OS (only the hardware is supported by Dell) and it really seems that Linux users will be the primary purchasers for now.

Will this save me money on purchase of a new DELL? As it stands, I do not have the choice to purchase a new DELL Desktop / Notebook without an OS. Most come with Vista BASIC (which I don't want as it's a tease) or XP Home, which again I don't want.

Getting Ubuntu preinstalled would be lovely. It would also be nice if the PCs were Vista Ready and had a multi-boot in place.

Ubuntu comes with GRUB loader, so configuring multi-boot is fairly simple.

No details on prices yet. Dell says those are coming "soon."

meh..

Load VMWare server, and boot Windows in a VM.

Unless you are a gamer, it's a win-win.

yea, I tried to give up the games to go Linux only but I just can't bring myself to do it.

That's *OK* you should stick to the OS that games run best on.

So now you get to buy a system with Ubuntu on it....*and* a copy of Windows?

... I wonder if this would really be the best solution. I haven't had much experience with VMWare ... I use Virtual PC 2007 to test sites on IE6 (I installed Vista) and was amazed at how fast THAT virtualization ran - VMWare could only be better from my assumption.

Sure, if you need it.

Alternately you can re-use the existing license from your other computer. Not like you need extra glitz to run those apps.

I don't use Windows often, but it's handy to have always available on one side of my cube. :-)

I even have this handy script to merge it into my desktop, and I have one home dir.

It's a win-win for me.

Then again, many people wouldn't even need the copy of Windows.

You can't beat this setup:

http://www.fewt.com/images/mydesktop.png

Ubuntu Fiesty
Automatix2
VMWare Server
Windows XP
+ a couple of my scripts

'nuff said

I've tried using Ubuntu and standalone it is great. But sorry to say that I don't just use standalone products. A lot of the programs I use do not work on Ubuntu and no, I don't want to use open source alternatives because you know what, my office isn't compatible with crap-half-baked software.

...and no, I don't want to use open source alternatives because you know what, my office isn't compatible with crap-half-baked software.

You sure you want to poke that bee-hive? Them's fightin' words to most Linux/OSS users.

Them's fightin' words to most Linux/OSS users.

The truth usually is to religious fanatics/cultists.

I don't think you have to be a fanatic/cultist to be at least a little miffed at the ignorance of that statement.

True, it doesn't take a fanatic to make wild generalizations, but it helps.

BTW: Nice to see you hanging out here more often. Missed ya there for a while.

"crap-half-baked software"

Like what?

Good choice, Ubuntu is the most usable distro so far.

I'd take Ubuntu over that bloated Vista crap any day of the week.

Now I wonder if those that submitted the request will go out and buy the system, if not I dont think it's gonna last very long if the support is not there.

Interesting idea, however I doubt that avg. joe user will buy a Ubuntu desktop over a Windows desktop. Most people that use comps for every day tasks like email, browsing, music & some light gaming won't want to change to a new OS. It's a start though.

I doubt there will be a deluge of people buying system preloaded with Ubuntu but there will be some people with common needs that may take some interest in Ubuntu. For thing like web browsing, music, email, and word processing an Ubuntu desktop would serve just fine.

You could make many of the same critiques about Mac OS. Despite that Apple have seen good growth in the last few years.

"For thing like web browsing, music, email, and word processing an Ubuntu desktop would serve just fine."

Well the problem with that is...I doubt the average user will take a chance with things working "just fine". Why take a chance and get something you've never used before? You KNOW Windows works well and you know how to use it, you know it's supported...is the ubuntu version of the desktop 800$ cheaper? No? Then why would the average user bother?

They cost of the computer will probably be $150 higher! "Alternative OS" systems from Dell never ever go on sale.

Sure, they have to pay for the additional cost of creating the new images, and of course, supporting them.

I can see it now:

Dell: How can I help you?
User: I just bought Quicken...but it won't install.

...almost makes me giddy.

That's no different than saying "why won't this xbox 360 game play in my playstation 3?"

Heh...

Yes, but most console owners are aware of the difference between a 360 and a PS3. The same can not be said for most PC users regarding "Windows" and "Ubuntu". They'll look at the sticker, buy it, and wonder "WTF?!?" when they turn it on.

As long as it's properly documented, it's a non-issue.

One paragraph on paper tucked in the box that explains the difference between Linux and Windows. It would also be a good op to provide links on more information about Ubuntu.

Why so pessimistic? Both OSs have their good points.

So you're saying that most Windows only people are too ignorant to read the system requirements clearly printed on the box in which the software they are about to buy comes.

I'd wager at least half.

If you disagree, then you have clearly never done Tech Support.

True, but for the average user, being able to walk into a store, pick up the latest software and install it is a pretty big point.

Of course, that's assuming this will be "marketed" (If it's marketed at all) to the average user.

Yes. That is *almost* exactly what I am saying. Just replace "all" with "most" and you've got it nailed.

Well then in my book most Windows users are utterly pathetic.

No argument there. =p

So the cost of the computer will be like $150.00 cheaper right?

Because Dell pay $150.00 per license of course... It's not like they sell millions or anything.

No, I would say it will be around the $50 mark, if at all.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they were more expensive as most other computer shops' Linux offerings are.

Question, do I get to choose from ubuntu, edubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu etc?

Oh yes, Toshiba may follow suit
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS9644921792.html

"It is also testament to the demand that exists for Ubuntu."

*laughing*

Thanks, I needed that.

Typical Microsoft user, completely imasculated and threatened by any software that is not Microsoft-branded. It's pretty sad when the only way Microsoft can get new users is to either openly invite piracy and offer a "$3 Microsoft Suite" out of desperation.

About the only people using Windows en masse is the US and parts of Western Europe. China, Africa, India, South America have already gone Open Source and staying there.

right. people pirate popular products and a lot of the pirated products happen to be Microsoft OS. China is all about their Windows. Africa stinks. India is also Windows. South America is also Windows. Just because they want to support open source doesn't mean all of their systems changed over night. Wake up, buddy.

Typical response from the linux/mac camp, linux for the average user is not going to fly.

Have you ever talked to dell tech support before, its pretty bad for windows and windows makes sense.

If Linux is that big of a market how come linux has so little share?

You really should read your links before posting them, all that link states is they are not going to go aggressively after pirates but will continue to monitor for illegal copies. So they arent openly inviting it.

It makes sense really rather then spending money searching and searching for people pirating it plus they are looking into creating a new model for lower income nations.

"About the only people using Windows en masse is the US and parts of Western Europe. China, Africa, India, South America have already gone Open Source and staying there."

Wow! You obviously don't travel much.

I'm sorry...threatened?

ROFLMAO!!

Yeah. I'm sure MS and any of users that prefer them are litterally shaking in their boots...from laughter.


About the only people using Windows en masse is the US and parts of Western Europe. China, Africa, India, South America have already gone Open Source and staying there.

...and the rest would...if they could afford it. Instead, they still do, they just pirate it.

Puh-leez get off your OSS high horse and actually *try* and think logically for just a moment. It'd do wonders for your perceived level of maturity.

MS rarely does anything out of desperation. IE7 being the notable exception. In fact, they rarely do *anything* unless it's been *proven* elsewhere.

Nevermind.

lmao...

Good album.

If the world is round, how come it took hundreds of years to discover it?

I'd say about half the internet is being run by Linux boxes, for a start. It's also true that Linux has not been a great desktop environment for most people but it's certainly improving. Certainly, for people who only need to do email, surf the web, and write the occasional letter, Linux is quite viable. And there are a LOT of people to whom that applies.

The real problem I see is the open source movement (wait...). While there's a lot of good/useful stuff out there, there's very little that's superb for endusers other than Firefox and Thunderbird. The Linux development community tends to ignore the last 5 to 10% of what's needed to make a user application GREAT as opposed to "adequate" (GIMP vs Photoshop, Open Office vs MS Office, Audacity vs Logic/DP/Sonar, for some examples)
That last 5-10% requires a lot of effort, a lot of money and requires the probability of a large RIO to make it worthwhile. However, given the philosophy on the Linux world (free (even as in beer, sigh) software, open source, trivial to pirate, and so on), there's little incentive to invest a lot of money to make the user experience great QUICKLY. So progress for the enduser is coming very slowly....but at least it's coming.

--->If Linux is that big of a market how come linux has so little share?

Certainly, for people who only need to do email, surf the web, and write the occasional letter, Linux is quite viable.

Yeah, give me an OS that's just *viable*. That's what I need...

"Typical Microsoft user"
I will agree that is the typical response from a Microsoft user. They tend to dismiss anything open source as insignificant. Never mind all the work these people put into all that software just to give it away. To say they or Microsoft feels threatened buy it.......well that's a bit of a stretch. It's like saying Microsoft feels threatened by Apple.

ajadoniz

Africa stinks??? have you ever been there? do you know anything about Africa? Do you have any idea how many people you offend by that statement? If you feel the need to say stuff like that about people then say it about your momma and not people and places you don't know... got that?? you rectal fume.