I have been using MS products for ages. Apple provides amazingly beautiful machines.They may look good but are truely amazing if you are only interested in doing intense work like graphics media applications or just using its frontrow media facilities. Even the Ipod, although extremely popular ain't that amazing.Compatibility is a huge problem.You cannot do anything with it unless you use Itunes and Quicktime Pro.When it comes to games, upgradability and tons of freeware the Microsoft Brand is the No.1 choice for customers worldwide.Although Xp has it flaws Microsoft Rulz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why should we trust Apple?
besides so what if Apple goes from 4% to 8%
of the market!!!
over 90% of people will still use Windows

Apple is great at innovating but not so good when it comes to brand marketing. I am an Apple switcher and an old IT consultant. I love Apple because it is a great stable platform and why not have a good looking notebook also while I'm at it?

The problem is Apple just doesn't get it. They rely on their nitch brand recognition but a new wave of Apple users are here, old PC Windows burnt people like me. We love Apple because it works and makes sense. If you want to appeal to us, show us why switching makes sense in an intelligent way and throw in the eye candy as a plus.

In the meantime, I am afraid Apple is going to get bigger and get as arrogant as Microsoft is now. Time will tell.

Wow, Apple has had 20 years to increase its market share against Windows and the best it's done so far is 2%. Double it and you get 4%. Oh man, I'm sure Redmond is quivering in the corner! And the last time I checked, that lousy little iPod is neither a computer nor is it productive device, but a toy, just like every overpriced thing Apple makes.

*yawn* :-O

...

By islandinthenet

Only world domination neo fascist Windows nazi users would respond this way. Apple is not interested in world domination and making sure that everyone use a mac.

...

Yeah, I'm sure Apple's stock holders would be happy to hear that.

Letter to the Stock holders.

Dear, Share Holder

As you all know, we here at Apple are not interested in making money like that other company Microsoft. Those greedy bas****s only care about making money and increasing their market share price. A business trying to turn a profit that is outrages!!! We want to assure all of you that this will never happen here at Apple. We will strive to maintain our less than 3% market share. Because this is a passion and not a business.

Yours truly,
Entire Apple Staff

Why is Hitachi on the bottom? I don't recall any of their products ever dying out on me.

mhh, I do remember (unfortunately) many Hitachi hard disk dying on my hands, or worse, on my clients hands. IBM legacy? Maybe, but they are finishing with Hitachi label on them now.

...

" world domination neo fascist Windows nazi users"

...

You sound like the Jim Jones of computers !

In point of fact, the Mac sucks.

Why else would it have less than a 3% maketshare ?

Even a doubling leaves it with only 5% !

Face it: The Mac was cute for effete elitist snobs
who shop Dillards and think a $30 T-shirt 'better'
than a five buck T-shirt ...because they paid MORE
for it.

But 'the party is over' !
...

The Computer Rodent
...

Forget those two for a moment. Can somebody in the Linux community please build a reasonably affordable o/s that ACTUALLY WORKS without needing 10,000 passwords, permissions and inscrutable commands? (and don't give me the "security" BS, enough already)

I've tried all the most popular versions, and as much as would want them to, they just do not have the user friendliness of a Mac or PC.

I have a question for the wanna be distro-of-choice-for-every-man Linux crowd. Do any of you actually like money?

well said. thumbs way up!!! :D

"please build a reasonably affordable o/s that ACTUALLY WORKS without needing 10,000 passwords, permissions and inscrutable commands?"

Mark Shuttleworth did. It's called Ubuntu. One password, easier to setup than XP.

""security" BS, enough already)"

good luck with that.

UBUNTU? Yeah right. One of the worst offenders, which everyone keeps touting.

I've tried 3 versions of that stinkin' thing. It's pretty much easy to install, but try and add some innocent piece of hardware like a USB wifi connection, and it becomes totally UNUSABLE.

I'm talking "user friendly" here, (think XP) and Ubuntu although it valiantly tries, just ain't in the same ballpark.

What becomes unusable, the USB adapter or the computer?

WIFI is still a serious Linux weakpoint, though it's been a weakness for ~ 4 years so they should have been able to figure it out by now.

By weak I mean manually installing software and editing config files by hand to support WPA *IF* ndiswrapper supports your hardware (more manual configuration here) because the Linux kernel probably doesn't.

This should have been configurable by a GUI years ago, its just now getting to where WEP can be configured by GUI (still headed to the command line to configure or install ndiswrapper though).

Everything I have plugged into an Ubuntu machine has "Just Worked".

WiFi cards, Firewire, usb cameras & flash drives, and many more. Now sure there are some hardware manufactures out there that will not provide drivers or the information needed to build a driver. If I accidentally buy unsupported hardware I return it and tell them why.

still headed to the command line to configure or "install ndiswrapper" though

Which is my point entirely. I don't know what "ndiswrapper" is and I don't wish to know.
(though I must add I believe it's some come of application installer) I don't want to learn this kind of geek retro-computer schtick just to install a simple thing like usb wifi, or a real player.

I'D LOVE to switch to Linux, but it's that sort of command-line/mounting/unmounting/password/gibberish, etc etc, that is such a turn off. Most people don't have time to sort through this stuff.

If anyone can get rid of the obtuseness of Linux, and automate tasks like Windows does so we don't have to do all this stuff, I will be the first one in line to buy a freakin' copy.

Linux is still a PITA when it comes to configuration. 1000x better than 1996 (my REAL first year with Linux) but it's still a pain.

...

The PC Rat thinks we can summarize
the discussion so far:

1.) Apple "doubling" sales of the Mac is a repeat of the same pathetic delusion the MacIntosh Taliban has been promoting these past dozen years.

2.) Even if Apple did "double" it's marketshare (and it won't), it'd go from the current measly 2.7% to a pitiful 5.4%. Whoopie !

3.) Apple is a music company which -for now- sells computers on the side.

4.) Once the iPod fad wears out (remember Sony "Walkman" ?), Apple will probably get into selling concert tickets on the sidewalk in front of stadiums ...or some other suitable business.

...

The Computer Rodent

...

Only world domination neo fascist Windows nazi users would respond this way. Apple is not interested in world domination and making sure that everyone use a mac. That's a Microsoft "Do it our way or we crush you!" style thinking. Ferrari's market share is insignificant compared to Toyotas or Honda but Ferrari still makes a profit and the cars are still made. I do not think that my mac is better than Windows XP. I think my mac in the best machine for me. If it helps be productive and work the way I want to work I do care if it comes from Apple or from Orange. In fact this is exactly how I operate. I use Linux servers for network services ( I would not dare put a Windows machine on the net), my mac for photo editing/multimedia, and Windows XP for business use. I am happy in using all of them for their strengths.

Let's see...

How many times have you repeated the exact same post?

And with SO much angst over something that You maintain is SOOOO insignificant!

Sounds like a pathological obsession to me!

If the concern is Soooo insignificant as you maintain, wouldn't a healthy person simply ignore the "measly" percentage of folks who pose no threat to you.

Personally, I find the content of your message to be insignificant as well, but unfortunately the volume of this same whine serves to dissuade some from looking into options that they might otherwise find useful.

It just seems strange to me that some feel so threatened by the use of platforms other then what they themselves use and seem utterly incapable of simply having an intelligent conversation and friendly debate over the pros and cons of an idea or an approach or a technology.

I happen to enjoy debating an idea in order to learn more about its strengths and weaknesses, as well as possible ways that it can be improved. And useful constructive criticism is always a welcome part of the debate.

And I also find aspects of both the Windows and Mac platforms, as well as UNIX in general, to be quite useful... so increased choices - especially those that allow me to increase my productivity while reducing the number of hardware platforms required, to be a very nice development. So I use the tools and platform that best suit the task at hand. And heretofore, if I wanted to use both the Mac and Windows, the choices were limited as I was not a fan of the MS Virtual PC emulation environment. But now we have the choice to consolidate the two environments natively on one platform - and hopefully this ability will be extended to machines beyond Apple's manufacture.

But the simple emotional whine reminiscent of a religious harangue that choices other then yours are disallowed and that anyone who prefers OSX is not entitled to express their preference without being denigrated, contributes very little to the forum. So, just who is functioning like the Taliban?

The irony is that it is YOU who are intolerant of other's choices. And it is telling that you are SOOO worried about it!

Why don't you simply stick to the Windows related articles that extol the wonderful virtues of all things Windows and Microsoft and defend them against all of the terribly unfounded claims regarding their business practices and security lapses. After all, if you were to simply worry about those issues, that should keep you quite occupied, as MS has seemingly gone to quite allot of trouble to provide you with a plethora of topics for discussion!

Of course, at some point of your defense of all things Microsoft, you might have to address the fact that MS has always used Macs for all of their internal graphics development and that MS is the largest Mac developer. I would love to see you defend MS in that debate!

Look at that, complete sentences, an informed and tolerant opinion, and no poorly obscured c^ss words.

What do you think, you're at slashdot? You should go someplace where people want a mature discussion.

ROFL

It's funny cause it's true.

...

"Let's see: ... 2 X 3 = ...now don't tell me...ah...gee this is hard...ah...I know...5! Yeah, 5!!!!"

...

These high school kids, they can neither do simple arithmetic ~or~ read !

The DataRat said Apple has a "less than 3% marketshare".

Instant replay for the reading-comprehension impaired:

"LESS than 3% market share"

So, 2 x ~less~ than 3% comes out -in this case- to 5% and some change.

Dah !
...

The Computer Rodent

...

So where is this group? Can't find em...

"A new report out by market research firm Forrester suggests that Apple could double its market share through defections from the Windows platform alone."

Finding Forrester...

http://www.forrester.com/my/1,,1-0,FF.html

Quoting:
Move on and discuss the implications of the articles folks! And use whatever products suit your needs! And quite worrying about what someone else is using!

I guess this article was a troll from the start.

It said Apple so you know it was full of s***.

Did you guys know that Windows XP is faster on the iMac Intel than OS X. In almost every benchmark (done by CNET) windows out performs OS X. And Photoshop was 57% faster with XP than OS X. That's really embarrassing, shouldn't OS X out perform XP on Apple hardware!

You fail to mention a VERY small contributing issue! The benchmarks you quote are for Mac software running IN EMULATION, as the native code has not yet been released by the third party vendor!

Now, go back and compare the benchmark for the same software on the FASTEST tested PC (the Dell XPS 600) against the Dual 2.5GHz dual core G5 Mac, where that software runs natively!

Let's look at a few numbers!
On the Adobe Photoshop CS2 test:
Dell: 1:03 (that's 63 seconds...)
Mac: 14 seconds!

Hmmmm....

And regarding comparing Cinebench rendering tests on various platdorms:
Pentium EE 840, overclocked to 3.6GHz: 667
Athlon 64 4800+ overclocked to 2.7GHz: 775
Quad G5: 1,104 - the highest ever measured
(*source: PCMagazine, March 7, 2006 p.33)

Yep, those Macs sure are slow!
And embarassing! Especially if you spent all the money on that Dell!

So, please feel free to quote ANY reliable sources, but PLEASE tell the ENTIRE story, and Not just that part that your selective attention chooses!

The fact remains, at least for now, you have the ability to run the software from both environments on the Mac PC. But hopefully that will change with either Apple releasing OSX for PC or with third party vendors such as VMWare or Parallel enabling OSX to run on PCs as well.

Bottom line: More choices are better then less!

AMEN M.Sweazey!

keep 'em straight

Thanks, M.Sweazey

I had a bet with a buddy of mine that someone would bring up the emulation part in less than an hour. So, thanks to you I just won $100 :-)

Sorry that I raised your blood pressure. For what it's worth ($100), everything you said was correct. heheheh

It's a shame that some folks reply by reporting half-truths and then rely on bets that others will correct that which their arrogant negligence thinks cute.

Sure people distrust "Microsoft", but will OSX run your all important business software MADE FOR WINDOWS?

Yeah I didnt think so either.

Yeah. And they arent good for games either. Come to think of it, are they really that good in multimedia apps? Is there anything so important that Windows cant do that Mac can?

The only product I distrust from Microsoft is Internet Explorer 6, and we are speaking of a product over half a decade old. XP is the most stable system til date. It works with any hardward I throw at it and it boot up within 20 sec.

My Intel iMac boots OSX Tiger in 9 sec flat.

wow...my XP boots in about 9 secs also...

He also said XP work with any hardware he throws at it...you can't say that about your imac now can you? :)

You can also say XP will work with almost any software you throw at it...also can't say that about your imac...ah well but yours boots up in 9 secs flat...:)

I'm not sensing any sarcasm here, so I figured I'd chime in and respond...

He said he had an intel iMac... heard of boot camp? I'm pretty sure that iMac can tear XP a new hole.

"My intel imac can boot OSX in 9 secs flat"

What's that have to do with boot camp and XP again...

...

"After getting a slice of the multimedia pie with Ipod, doubling it's
market share for an OS they paid to have made for them is peanuts"

...

Quite right !

First: Apple is a music company now. It sells computers on the side.

Secondly: With a current desktop marketshare of less than 3%,
doubling their computer sales ~still~ leaves the Mac with an
insignificant 5% share of the market.

And, even, THAT ain't gonna happen !
...

The Computer Rodent

...

It is quite humorous to see such angst displayed by those who claim to be so confident!

Quoting:
"Secondly: With a current desktop marketshare of less than 3%,doubling their computer sales still~ leaves the Mac with an insignificant 5% share of the market.

And, even, THAT ain't gonna happen !"

Let's see: ... 2 X 3 = ...now don't tell me...ah...gee this is hard...ah...I know...5! Yeah, 5!!!!

Oh, they did declare "new math" a failure, didn't they! Such valuable insight!
But he's right with regards to one thing! "That ain't gonna happen!"

And let's take a look at a quick sampling of some of the additional brilliant insights expressed below:

And where does all of this "the Intel Macs are not PCs" nonsense come from? Yep, those who are tied to Windows sure are swooft! Their knowledge of computers (or lack thereof...) extends to the hardware realm as well!

"Utilities are severely lacking. I tried to install OSX the other day, but I forgot it doesnt' support NTFS. So now I have to get a new hard drive.. or reformat mine."

And the Mac lacks utilities - yes, including one to remind rocket scientists that OSX does not utilize NTFS and to therefore prevent the same rocket scientists from trying to load it and thus corrupt their data! Yep, blame the software! (And I certainly hope the "get a new hard drive" comment is Not because they think it is now broken! ;-)

And OSX is just UNIX with a GUI? Now THERE's an insult!

"The only product I distrust from Microsoft is Internet Explorer 6, and we are speaking of a product over half a decade old. XP is the most stable system til date. It works with any hardward".

Let's see, XP is how old? Oh, MORE then half a decade old! And XP's problem at release was what? Oh! The lack of "hardward" drivers resulting in hardware incompatibility! Well that follows! The rest of us were needing hardware drivers! And after 6 years, they finally have drivers available! Wow!

And Windows is the "most stable" compared to what? Certainly not compared to any other major operating system! And better then earlier Windows? It would be hard pressed not to be! Especially with so much ported code contracted from IBM!

And: "Apple doesn't have a server product. So that right there, speaks volumes about its future in high-end business."

Not only do they have a server that kicks rear, the new Remote Desktop Management function, available at a fraction of the price of WinServer2003, without the licensing fees (oh, really!?), excels! Plus it's X-Raid storage solution costs half of what EMC's product costs! Go read InfoWorld and SysAdmin!

Unfortunately, what Does indeed effect their future in the Enterprise market is the persistence of such ignorant positions - regardless of reality!

"and dual booting isn't much fun (it's a hassle and you'll do it less and less the more you own a computer, trust me.)"

Yep, and thus that entire concept called "virtualization" that VMWare, Microsoft and Parallel are providing in software, and which IBM's Power has provided for almost 8 years, and which Intel and AMD are fervently developing for their forthcoming CPUs at the hardware level, is dead! Pardon me if I don't 'trust you'!

This stuff reads like the DaVinci Code! Fascinating, but complete nonsense!
Oh, with the exception of the flash of insight that OSX is fundamentally ... UNIX! OK...I am still trying to figure out the downside to that one!

And not that it would be of interest (or use) to those of you who are similarly affected as those referred to above, but Parallel and VMWare either have, or will have, support for OSX on Intel this year. For those too slow to understand the implications - that seems to infer running the OSes concurrently - at the SAME time (duh!)- and/or possibly even running OSX on top of a Windows or Linux platform, and possibly on top of an OSX platform (so many combinations & permutations!). We'll see...

But it is fascinating to see that so few seem to address the fundamental issue expressed in the article! Namely, the mistrust of Microsoft!
Imagine! You mean, there are some who are not MS fans!? Could it be...nah! Impossible!

But then General Honore would have a field day as the same tired diatribes are expressed by the same profiles who persist in simply continuing their neverending debate over "which OS is best"! There are just far too many folks "stuck on stupid"!

Move on and discuss the implications of the articles folks! And use whatever products suit your needs! And quite worrying about what someone else is using!

Let's see, why do so many seem to like the Mac? And why are so many , at so many levels, willing to deal with the clunky and kludgy UNIX in Windows clothing called Linux, albeit without applications? These folks must be Mighty satisfied with Windows to tolerate such 'obviously' inferior systems!

It really doesn't matter what postion you want to take! However, what WOULD be refreshing is if folks would get their facts straight first, and THEN make a case! This stuff makes the supermarket tabloids look down right insightful!

And with regards to the 'oh so confident Windows-only users', Methinks thou dost protest too much!

I just hope you didn't spend too much time writing that book...I somehow doubt anybody is going to spend the time to fully read it.

I did catch a glimpse of one sentence in there tho' that kind of grabbed my attention:

""and dual booting isn't much fun (it's a hassle and you'll do it less and less the more you own a computer, trust me.)""

"Yep, and thus that entire concept called "virtualization" that VMWare, Microsoft and Parallel are providing in software, and which IBM's Power has provided for almost 8 years, and which Intel and AMD are fervently developing for their forthcoming CPUs at the hardware level, is dead! Pardon me if I don't 'trust you'!"

What does virtualization have anything to do with dual booting a workstation? I just don't get your counter argument on that one...having a few virtual machines running concurrently and having to reboot to switch OS's are similar how again...?

I mean...it's like you're trying to show a sign of intelligence by saying you know about this and that...but you bring those points in a counter to something that has nothing to do with your point...kinda funny...I don't know how many more times you did that in that book of yours I'm not going to spend the time reading through the entire thing.

Great job M.S.!
From russian mac users.

After getting a slice of the multimedia pie with Ipod,doubling it's market share for an OS they paid to have made for them is peanuts.
Give me a dime for every tune sold through ITunes.. Now we're talking!!

I want a dual booting Intel Mac, and then I will boot windows and torture it, then kill it. Because remember: Windows is bad, OSX is good. Now go away!

OSX is good, Windows is better. opinion

About the only "company" I trust is the EFF. I don't even trust the one I work for!

Apple's making a great move; it's just like everything else they do and everything they produce--it's well thought-out. They've forced the choice facing any PC-buying consumer to now be: I can purchase computer A which allows me run OSX and XP, or computer B which allows me to run XP only. (Also there's Parallels which is allegedly going to run Windows within a window on OSX.) When most consumers look into Mac hardware and the way they're accessably priced nowadays, most are going to see it as a win/win/win for them.

Or we can just wait, because there isn't much an apple can do that a PC can't, and dual booting isn't much fun (it's a hassle and you'll do it less and less the more you own a computer, trust me.)

Computer "B," as you put it, can definitely run a lot more than just Windows OS. Ever thought of the many flavors/distributions of Linux, BSD, and Unix that run on the very same hardware that Windows OS supports not even to mention that they are ready and available right now to be used without waiting for additional development time?

"Mac Hardware accessably priced nowadays"

Come on... I was going to get an Intel Mac untill I looked at the price... I decided on a Dell Laptop with the same 2GHz Dual Core Proccesor and 1.5GB RAM and 100GB HD and DVD+-RW for $1200 try to get that in a Mac it starts @ $2499!!!! not to accessably to me.

Aint that the truth...

Try going through Dell's Outlet (outlet.dell.com) and get a dual core 2.8ghz, 1gb ram, 250gb 3G sata and DVD+-RW for $517. Let's see Jobs figure out how to make the MAC something joe average could buy.

"The Mac is now a PC"

I love the way we revise history. The Mac has always been a Personal Computer. PC was originally a generic term for a single user computer. :-)

My Dell E1505 at a Glance :
2.0Ghz Intel Core Duo ( Not avail in a Mac Mini )
1.5GB of RAM install upto 4GB (not avail in a Mac Mini)
Intel GMA950 graphics processor (same as Mac Mini )
VGA & S-Video Out supporting dual monitors ( Not Aval. In the Mac Mini )
100GB SATA Drive installed 120GB SATA Aval.
Ok so it don't have the Optical out or In ( score one for the Mac Mini )
10/100Enet built in ( not many ppl have a gigabit network anyways)
4 USB and 1 Firewire (same)
No Bluetooth but avail.( I did not want it.. I'll never use it.. )
I opted not for the remote but its a avail.
Oh and the warranty I gota 1 year on-site warrenty.. hmm what does apple offer standard 1 year limited warrenty..... So what does your Mini have that a Dell don't... umm a couple audio jacks.... BIG DEAL!!! order your MacMini with a 15.4'' Flat Panel and all thouse options.. ( wait you can't get all thouse options..) but anyways.. you will prolly pay more than my Dell and my Dell will smoke that MacMini.... I almost bought a MacMini.. but it just was not the smart choice.... I tried fighting the big guy's once back in 90's when I was a die hard OS/2 fan/user... and we all now how that turned out...

Ok for one.. I ordered a brand new Dell not one from the Outlet.. and.. it list for $749 before I added the other stuff.. still lower than the MacMini.. and I did not say you can't get an LCD with a MacMini I said order it with one and see how much it will cost.. And I ordered third party RAM myself because DELL wanted too much for it. All I am saying is APPLE wants to much for there computers... And one bad review from one person just means that he lives in the real world were when something is mass produced your are bound to have a few bad ones. I personaly love my laptop and it does everything I want it to do... I have not had any of the problems that one person has discribed... but If Apple deciededs to licence OSX on PC I prolly will buy it because I do think its better than Windows... but Until they offer it to the mass public with out restrictions They will never beat Microsoft.

...

"If Apple gave these users a reason to switch and leave Microsoft behind,
the company could double its market share"

...

They've been saying THAT for the past ten years while Apple's desktop
marketshare has dwindled from 15% to 10% to 5% to -now- less than 3%.

Smoke some more dope and dream on, dudes !
...

The Computer Rodent

...

LOL

yeah the next step is for Apple to release os 10 for normal pc hardware. Although there would be some major problems. Apple does like carefully controlling the hardware. As you know there is very little if any support for mac hardware in os x or Windows. So just make drivers for what you need, you then have the most stable product. That is part of the reason Windows has a lot of issues. You have thousand of different companies/products/software engineers drivers out there. Some guys are better at writing them then others. Why do you think there is that little thing called Windows logo certified drivers. That would basically make the reason why apple is so small and niched in the market go away. They may have a wider audiance and more purchases of the os, maybe even more support. But in the end I am sure ms would bury them. Unless of course they gave it away for free or gave a free copy away with their ipod, and then make you use their os in order to use the ipod.

It will be an interesting next few years to see how this turns out. Hey everyone check out google Calender! It's out finally! Also have you tried myspace.com!

Microsoft is requiring all 64-bit Vista drivers to be WHQL certified. If the driver isn't WHQL certified it will NOT install under 64-bit Vista. There is really no excuse that Apple couldn't impose a similar requirement so people could run OS X on standard PC hardware.

Spiffy; I'll be looking more into this.

It's about time Microsoft got serious about allowing BS-quality drivers to be installed only to cause BSODs and/or other problems; although, I would hate to see custom driver modifications not work anymore, such as the YouP PAX drivers for Sound Blaster audio cards.

You hit the nail on the head. Let's see if Apple can actually make OSX run on every intel based platform, AND stay stable. I give MS a lot of credit. Windows XP has been extremely stable on all of the hardware I have put it on. Sure there's always going to be glitches, that's the nature of the beast, but for the most part it works.

I don't remember the last time I got a BSOD, but I do still hear of MAC people complaining about the lovely BOMB. Maybe that's on OS9, I really don't pay that close attention (it is about a MAC OS after all ).

Seriously though, Compaq tried going the proprietary route back in the 80s and it cost them share on the desktop. When they wised up and saw their market being eaten by clones, they had to follow suit.

I personally like being able to walk into BestBuy, Circuit City, Frys, etc and pick up hardware off the shelf, go home, install it and have it work.

I can't imagine why I would want to buy a MAC and then have to wait to find hardware that would actually work on it, not to mention software. Maybe if all I run is Adobe stuff, then I'd be content, but there's a big world out there and very little of it is writes software for the MAC. Maybe that will change, but not because someone can now dual boot between OSX and WindowsXP.

Does anyone remember OS/2 Warp? IBM gave it the ability to run both Windows 3.1 apps and OS/2 apps. Despite being a superior OS to Windows 3.1, people wrote to 3.1 because they could get both markets.

So even if Apple gives the ability to run REAL Windows XP in a window on the desktop, again, what would you right for? The 2% of the population running OSX or the 90% running Windows XP (I leave 8% for those who run something else out of defiance. ).

Uhhh, distrust for Apple has caused me to run elsewhere..... buck the punk Jobs.

They're both dogs, Apple and Microsoft, in a never ending fight for dominance; then there is linux who's a penguin. Doesn't matter who is ontop, they are both still dogs. But when the ice age comes...

If OS X ran on generic hardware I would. I would definitly duel boot. Or maybe I'd see if I could get MS Virtual Server to run it :P Maybe only a little hack to it is needed to run OS X?

Dude this is real life, not hollywood.. Quit living in fantasy land. Disney Land/World is that way

Where Apple could really win is by implementing an easy way for the Mac OS to run on Windows machines (IE a non-apple computer).

This way users can dip their toe in the waters of Mac without jumping right on in. A similar approach to dual-booting OS's has worked well for Linux. Cautious Windows users can test out different distros, find one they like, get comfortable with it, and still boot Windows to play games or access functionality their Linux partition may not have.

The optimum would be to emulate Windows in a Mac OSX "window". If you can emulate it, and still allow it to access files and network and such, that would be a big win.

Conversely, I'd love to run OSX in a window over on Windows.

As predicted, the OS wars are going to be harsh, and it's going to be an excellent time for consumers. It's already bearing fruit.

You can run Windoze emulated in Virtual PC for Mac OS already..
The only problem is that the developers (Connectix) sold the company toooo...... Micro$oft! And MS already crippled, bloated and made unstable the product very fast:
Just one version.
* Connectix 6th version worked like a charm.
* Version 7 from Microsoft sucks all the way.
The great news is that Vmware is already working to include Mac OS version/support. Virtualization is even better than emulation.

Friendly FYI: Those "Windows machines" and "non-Apple computers" are generally known as PCs. :) Back in the day you may have even called them IBM PCs, IBM compatibles, or IBM clones.

PC vs. Apple Mac(intosh)

I'll go with the PC for now. ;)

Umm.. this has been out for what.. at least 5 years. OSX (MAC) has HAD this Virtual PC for some time now...

Way to keep up there..

If I could buy Apple's OS X to run on any generic hardware I would, and I suspect many, many others would to.

I understand... Apple have a limited ammount of hardware that the OS will run on... so its easier for them to optimize the OS (not so many combinations of hardware to cater for)...

But the hardware is some of the most expensive around.

My box (excluding monitor, keyboard, mouse) cost ~£350 (80gb HD, 1gb ram, AMD 64 cpu, MSI 64 mb, ATI 256 agp, creative 5.1 sound + case and power)

The fact that Dell is on the trusted list discredits whoever/wherever they got these stats from IMO.

I completely and wholeheartedly agree with your stated opinion. :)

I'm wondering what is so bad about LG... I was considering purchasing one of their Direct View (CRT) HDTVs.

Dell is the best machine you can buy. Why are you people do down on big companies?

Dell got to where they are, because they are good, its not an accident they are the largest PC retailer..

Evidently, you prefer someone else. So feel free to USE someone else, but don't spread false rumors. I will put a Dell up against ANY manufacturer you want. Any time, any place.

Maybe *YOU* don't know what you are doing, and you had problems, that seems to be a common theme...

Dell does not make the best computers available. They make some of the most subsidized and available computers, yes, but price point does not make them too hot.

In my personal experience, Dell's tech support has been lackluster at best and horrendous at worst. The internal builds are generally neat and well organized, but the work required to do a dust cleanout for an entire office worth is ridiculous. I don't even want to approach the part they currently play in the whole Intel/AMD lawsuit drama.

Dell's consumer level marketplace is like AOL; both household names, both driven by people who know nothing else. And both make money for me when I have to clean up the messes their respective support people leave in their wake.

So yes, go Dell! My business thanks you.

Distrust?

Only thing of MS that I don't trust is Internet Explorer. Other than that I got plenty of trust for them, in fact significantly more than I do for Apple. Although I prefer BSD/KDE combo over anything else out there.

So do I, I dont trust Apple as much.

So... umm... how, exactly, is the ability for those who bought over-priced intel macintosh computers to boot Windows going to lower Microsoft's market-share?

At most it sounds like it would harm Dell and other such PC manufacturers' high-end business.

I believe the assumption is that now Apple can market their systems as being able to run Windows, yet once the system is in use, the user will gradually figure out that OS X is light years ahead of anything that Redmond can put out in any reasonable amount of time. Then, eventually that person will stop looking to microsoft for anything at all. Apple have proven one thing; they are patient, and market share isn't that vital to them. They can wait until Microsoft collapses upon itself like a house of cards.

How about Apple was first before IBM, and they had their chance, and they BLEW it. How about that?

How about its too little too late, for Apple.

You people crack me up, first Linux is all the rage, then BeOS, now Apple, what's next, anything *OTHER* than MS? That's my point.

Its the new pill. Must have, get one now. Act while supplies last.

This is hype at its best.

Not Dell--they said like a year ago that they would license Intel Apple systems with Mac OS and Windows, if Apple would follow up with the intel agreement.

Apple did their part. I'm just waiting for Dell's official response.

Apple never said they would allow dell or any manufactory to sell their OS.

I don't really care where apple was 5 years ago. All most people care about now a days is what is available now and what OS best fits their computing requirements. For me, Windows is starting to get behind the times and it no longer considered a "modern OS". That's my opinion of course, everyone is entitled to their own.

I'm not a macgeek, nor am I a windows geek. I just want an operating system that works and handles the most modern media and applications easily and conviniently. At present, OS X is the best for me at this moment. After seeing Vista in beta, I'm quickly losing hope that Windows will turn things around.

I can pretty much vouch for Dell. Another big company like HP would have to start selling Apple, before Dell will.

I think even a couple of larger firms would have to adopt Apple before Dell would.

Does Dell sell AMD? I think not. Apple is too small to deal with for Dell. Yes, I said SMALL

There are 2 problems with your statement.

1) You should care what Apple was like 5 years ago, its the SAME management. So what has changed? NOTHING!

2) Vista isn't the future, What is wrong with XP? NOTHING. So why are you pinning your hopes on Vista? There is nothing written anywhere that makes Vista the new revolutionary OS. Its another in a line of upgrades. IF you want to upgrade, good. If not, there is no IMMEDIATE need to switch.

It takes 2 years or more, for a company to adopt a new OS. So even if Vista came out Tomorrow, it would be 2008 at the earliest before you would see any push for a new OS installation.

The history of a company is defined by its product. All Apple has right now is the iPod. Ask yourself this question. Why did Apple switch to the Intel platform in the first place?

Their ideology about 15-20 years ago is that they wanted to reinvent the wheel. ALL their hardware to this point has been proprietary. I find it quite Odd that all of a sudden, they want to adopt a new platform. And you don't think their OS isn't going to change because of it?

Windows is starting to get behind the times.. interesting. Are you blind? windows has been steadily gaining momentum, even more than before. They have more servers, more desktops, more support, more developers, and more drivers than ever before.. and they are behind?

You are either retarded or you are purposely trying to be obtuse.

there is NO way Apple would affect in any degree, the high-end business. Apple doesn't have a server product. So that right there, speaks volumes about its future in high-end business.

Its a good desktop OS, yes. Its very intuitive yes. It lacks things, like oh I don't know, DEVELOPERS??!?!. How many games do you see on the shelf for Apple OSX? 1, 2, 10? I can look up about 5 big name products.. One of which, I play (Warcraft). But of the other big name games.. there isn't much.

And before you discount the validity of Games, its the largest sector in ANY software level.

This includes Server, Development, Business, AND Desktop.

Everyone forgets, Games is a huge, huge, huge industry. Its the basic driving force behind hardware upgrades. We dont' need high end cpu's for word, or firefox, well maybe itunes, because that is a pig, but that's another story...

CPU, hard drive speed, bus speeds, memory increase, its ALL attributed to Games. Games is the key.

What platform can you play games on.. and get ALL the latest, greatest games. Xbox, PS2, Nintendo, and um..oh yeah WINDOWS!! But Apple is almost non-existent..

That's not coincidence.. There is a good reason Apple doesn't have a very large market share, they have been ignoring this little part.

Sorry I wasn't clear.

The point is Apple computers aren't a competition for Dell's $300 desktops. However people in the market for $2000+ systems may have a glance at Macintosh computers since they can now run Windows.

I wasn't referring to server systems of any kind. :P

Actually, I do believe that XP and more importantly Vista has become an anchor. Many professional pundits have pointed out that MS should have completely started from scratch with Vista (rewirte a new OS and virtualize the old). Since according to several stories only 50% of modern (last 2-3 yrs) will be able to run Vista comfortably. In fact, most note, if you have a machine older then this you will be sorely dissapointed. The problem is not the ideas behind Vista it is the fact that it is weighted down by supporting ancient technology that only a small populace use (most not even able to move to this OS). Microsoft needed a new start and should have started with Vista. Since it will have taken over 6 years for them to release this new OS since their last and the fact that it is in many ways a paradigm shift (visually and under the hood) they should taken steps to rid themselves of the weight. It is not that I see Apple as viable alternative (for me it is not) I just believe that MS has made some terrible moves and retrospect cannot turn around and fix them because it would delay this product even further.

You pointed out falsely that MS has a increasing base of users. True but not upgrades only through new Dells and others . The real truth is that, the Window product has steadily declining in sales. A lot of companies never made the move or could not. Many home users never had the desire, knowledge or money to do so either.

Although, I do not wish for a Mactel (nor am I a Ipod lemming) I do admire the fact the Apple does have a greater stability. Whether you attribute this to a closed system or not it is something MS can only dream about (random ranting will continue... have to go run an errand :) )

Dell not selling systems with AMD chips has much more to do with Intel giving kickbacks for said actions than Dell's own policies. They simply buy what's cheaper.

Porn works good on an Apple.

Apple has a pretty nice server line: The xserve is a good example: 1U server at competitive price and additionally, you are not going to be extorted with the server OS price. If my memory don't fail me you pay +o- $1000- and you have Mac OS server edition AND unlimited CALs.
Very easy to deploy, also.

"Does Dell sell AMD?"

They sure do sell AMD processors. Please refrain from posting until you're sure you won't be blowing smoke up anyone's ass. :)

See:
http://accessories.us.de...ory_id=6197&mnf=116

I severely enjoyed reading your rant and sincerely agree with what you stated in it.

Umm.. They sell Dell AMD boxes? I know they sell processors, but are they included with a Machine?

So what exactly are you saying that I can't buy a Dell at the $2000 price point that can't keep up with a MAC? PLEASE!

Not only would it be competitive, but it would be more advanced than a similar priced MAC. *AND* it would support more software.

OSX would be better *IF* they had more people developing for the platform, until that day comes, Windows is it, whether you CHOOSE to believe it or not.

Its not kickbacks, the term is known as "discounts" and you don't think Walmart, Car dealerships, Clothing lines, and Electronics dont' do the same thing?

Its volume discounts, mr financial wiz. Dell makes better financial sense to buy lots of 10 of thousands of Intel products and therefore be able to pass the savings on the customers, than to buy whatever, and only get a marginal discount. When they buy more from Intel, they sign an agreement that that will maintain their 10,000 or 100,000 level of CPU volume, because Intel wants to be assured their quotas will be met.

EVERY business in America does this. That's why people sign long term contracts.

I suppose the NBA is getting kickbacks from Addidas for signing an 11 year deal too huh?

This is a case where perception is reality. It's unfortunate, too... often the companies that do the best, like MS and Apple are subject to the whims of whatever associates themselves with it.

I could imagine that any dominant OS would be subject to greater emphasis by crackers and shady installers, no matter what the name. It's not about flaws as much as it's about market penetration.

Sony being held in high esteem cracks me up.

I would like to add that my next computer purchase (sometime in the next 6 months) will be an Apple.

I'll be replacing my Windows XP box at home with an Intel based Mac.

I'll use Boot Camp until I'm used to everything but then I'll get rid of Windows completely.

I'd consider it, but the cost to make that jump for me, and all the software I have, would be staggering...

I'm considering the same. I may keep one PC as a gaming system that is kept stripped to the minimum, but any new purchase I make will be an Apple.

I like Apple. the problem is, software. Games and Utilities are severely lacking. I tried to install OSX the other day, but I forgot it doesnt' support NTFS. So now I have to get a new hard drive.. or reformat mine.

I will consider moving to Apple, IF there is going to be dedicated support for it. Maybe its time we switched, but I like my XP.

I finally got everything settled downn, drivers in place, and my games all running, and it doesn't crash!

That too, is an issue.

Customers don't Trust Microsoft because of the lies spread by the perpertrators who give FALSE information about the product.

Not to mention the legacy of greed and jealousy in this country.

Yeah...how about "Wrong". Just wrong, on so many levels, that one just doesn't know where to begin.

How about, people need to get their own info, and quit listening to other peoples opinions about products. That's how rumors get started.

I don't know about you, but I have better things to do than spend time researching every nit-noid little fact about Microsoft. Usually when sovereign nations take it upon themselves to sue an individual company, said company isn't the picture of perfection. Trust them if you like, but I'll chose a little devil over a big one, any day of the week.

What I find interesting and ironic is, you've taken it upon yourself to counter and attempt to refute every opinion contrary to your own. How, exactly, does that fall in line with your stance that "people need to get their own info"? Is it more likely that people need to get their own info and opinions that you approve of?

How about customers not trusting them for violating a multitude of laws, and practicing very unethical behavior?

And your doing ...what?

What really pis... me off is this, is microsoft perfect? No. Do they put out great products? Yes. Everyone talks about the exploits in security per capita are the any worse than any other company? No. Because an exploit is detected does not mean you were exploited.

I am online 14-15 hours a day my company has hundreds of microsoft computers we have had exactly 0 exploits, and very very few of you can say you have been exploited.

My question is very simple do you b**** just to b**** because most of you sounding off more than likely have plenty of Microsoft software on your machines, what hipocrits.

Apple had many chances to increase market share over the years, did they take advantage of it to help there business? No.

If it wasn't for the I-pod Apple would be in alot of trouble again and who pulled them out of there last crises? Yes Microsoft.

Well KSzostek I have to agree with you there Microsoft isn't perfect and Apple is far from perfect too plus their branding is just too damn cheesy compared to Microsofts approach. Another good point is that Microsoft operating systems have more applications designed for them than Apple operating systems. Ask any gamer which OS they use and its almost guaranteed to be Microsoft made as not many games get a mac release. Ain't no point in having an X1900XT or 7800GTX in a mac.........

They don't need my approval, but people fly off the handle at the mere mention of the word "Microsoft" because they are following the herd, and I am really getting tired of it, little man.

I counter, because its very rare that people seem to support Microsoft, but yet ALL of you people MUST be using their products, otherwise you wouldn't b**** about them so much. So if the OS that MS makes bothers you soooo much, quit using it!

That's my finding.

And as for your "better things to do" speech that's amazing, insolent, but you have enough time to come on a board and refute my tesitomy about a product I support. How very anti-perceptive of you.

I trust them, because I don't have a problem with them. I can make my opinion, but some of you people seem to enjoy MS bashing, and I am fiding it more and more irritating.

So fine, don't spend time researching, but they are a big company, maybe if you did spend a tad more time researching instead of sitting around smoking a bong, you might learn something, ace.

Yeah, that's my point too.

First, to all you OSX lovers, OSX is nothing but UNIX. Nothing new, just another dumb shell on top of it.

To those that think Apple's stuff is more stable and secure, you don't know much about much. Unix/OSX has holes, just like Windows. What the hell do you think Kernel updates are? Duh!

Mac's do and will crash that's just a fact of life.

My company has a multitude of OS's and I'm not partial to any of them really but they all have faults, just since Windows is the most popular, people are going to look at it first to find the exploits.

So wake up and get in the real world, Apple's management sucks camel nuts. They could have been where Microsoft is now but they chose not to.

End of your lecture about what really is happening now go and stick your fingers back in your noses where they were to start.

Apple computers look good. It's hard to believe that with so many PC makers that none of them can put out good looking hardware. I have a dell because it was cheaper than a mac, not because it is better. I think that macs are a kind of status symbol, kind of like a nice mercedes would be. There will always be the white trash types that ague that they can get more horses cheaper in a firebird and so they go and get one. That's cool for them because it makes them happy. I think looks are more important than anything. Who really cares about functionality and compatibility and all that if you have a computer that makes you look like PWT?

Sorry my bad english, I'm from Russia.

MS products are good. They are good in offices and at home. Everyone who needs to type a small memo, or write an email can really apreciate all that MS Word ca offer. But everyone should keep in mind that memos shouldnt be longer then 3 pages and shouldnt have more then 3 pictures inside. Otherwise results are inpredictable. If you want to be free for a couple of your working hours try to renumber pages in a 1000 pages long document. PC will enter deep coma. But anyway - MS powered PCs are prefect for offices. Cuz noone gonna write memos longer then 3 pages. What else you can do at an ordinary average office?
MS powered PC are prefect at home. Tonns of games and fun. Nothing serious. Billions dollars was wasted for memos and games. No work at PC.
All serious thing that was created with computers like movie FX, videos, cyberart, awarded websites etc were not created under WinXP.
If you are creative, if you have a lot of ideas and dont have time and possibility to waste your time looking for appropriate software and hardware to accomplish your ideas in a shortest time ... just buy Mac.
I have both. MS powered one is covered with dust. No good games was recently =)

Good one.

Windows XP = White Trash
Mac OS X = urban professional

Yeah right!