The whole situation has arised because of the first anti trust suit. EU decided that just because MS has violated the laws in the browser wars it should open its source code/protocols for its servers. MS has never used its monopoly ILLEGALLY to increase its shares in server market.

This is like saying if Intel was proved to illegaly force partnerships then it has to open up its motherboard/circuit designs so that other vendors can make their own processors fit the. This absolutely makes no sense and does not benefit the competition and more importantly the economy

And let's not forget the Windows N edition. Noone wanted to buy it, which is an indication that EU courts just have too much free time and too much political envy.

The purpose of anti trust system is to benefit the customer and business environment. If MS releases their protocols customers will flock to the competition BECAUSE it's FREE. And of course MS can't allow that. As a result it will cough up fines, lawyer expenses etc. and this process will go on for years untill the decision is overturn and EU and MS reach another settlement.

The whole purpose of EU doing this is to damage American corporations. The same reason was than it cancelled the merger of GE and Honeywell. And the same reason it funds AIRBUS.

If you ask me, MS should sue all the open source groups for price dumping.
It should also urge US government to sue EU in WTO and make taxes on EU imported knowledge goods/services.

Microsoft's ecosystem has always been more profitable for everyone. So EU is in fact damaging it's own economy by doing this. No Open Source company(yes Red Hat too) has made a profit bigger than 100Mln. No Open Source company has decided to invest 1.7 mln in R&D in EU.

MS should stop all the investment in EU market. And for every day there are fines it should start firing people for double that amount, citing increased costs.
They should pull that 1.7 BLN investment out of EU immediately and put it to EU's greatest competitors US and China.

Bottom line, EU is wrong and is seriously losing political credibility. I think US government should do something about this or there would be 600Mln dollars less in US economy next year.

The funniest thing about your comment is that you won't be able to back up a single statement that you've made.

;-)

Rock on EU!

Something seems a bit wrong with this whole argument from the EU. If I were a chef and made a fantastic desert, sold it to millions (lets say its 'really' fantastic), would I then 'have' to share the recipe? If I stole it from someone, maybe a court would get to review it, but in this case no such allegation has been made, that I can tell.

I am happy Microsoft wants to open .. aka sale :) .. the source code for some of their server code, it does benefit a lot of people, namely their competitors, but also the consumer in the end. My problem is how the EU is justifying this.

BTW - I'm not an MS fanboy, just a curious observer from afar.

The EU didn't tell Microsoft to share the recipe. The EU told Microsoft to document how to make a bowl that's compatible with their recipe. Microsoft documented how to make a plate. The EU said no no, you need to document how you make a bowl. Microsoft in a flash of smoke and mirrors proclaimed that anyone in the world could license their recipe which includes making the bowl for $50K and that they were working so hard to comply that this should be good enough! The EU dumbfounded that they still didn't comply with the request said, ok if you want to sell the recipe that includes the instructions for making the bowl (which is all we wanted really) then you have to give the whole thing away for free.

The EU doesn't need to justify anything, Microsoft was found in violation and continues to refuse to comply with the ruling.

Heh .. well if only M$ had concentrated on desserts .. maybe they are better at chefing than they are at OS design. I know about this, I install their $#!^ as a full time job. Take my word for it, they are not nice to their customers or the other people who 'live' in their 'ecology'.

Remember the crocodile also exists thanks to 'survival of the fittest'. Luckily we have some facility for rational thought, perhaps we can create for ourselves a nicer ecology than the raw environment provided by nature?

I think the existence of computers and the ability to write computer programms indicates this is so...

Have a nice day.

The EU makes the RIAA and MPAA look like good guys. I see that the communist won in Europe, I'm sorry not communism but National Socialism.

I don't see the EU as the RIAA or MPAA, I just see that the EU is not as easily bought as the US congress .. DMCA?

I do agree the EU's decisions here are a bit strange (see my other post).

The US is the country with a far-right government, not the EU.

>> and the other was to open the source code >> of Windows Server networking protocols to >> third party developers.

Wrong. Europe have never asked for the source code, if fact, they have said that they do not want the source code.

Europe has told Microsoft that they must provide interfaces/protocols, to stop their monopoly; so that others can compete.

Microsoft's current offer is to offer a licence for 50000 euros, just to write programs, using the interfaces.

Yes, the EU didn't want source code they wanted good documentation. Microsoft provided poor documentation and then the EU called them on it they decided to "give away source code" well that came with a fat price tag which would keep competition from making use of it defeating the purpose of the documentation all the while Microsoft gets to play the smoke and mirrors poor us we are trying so hard to be right but they are beating us up game. Like you said, the EU didn't want source code. Microsoft went against their request by offering code instead of documentation, so the EU in turn decided that they would call Microsoft out on it and make them hand the code out for free.

I suspect Microsoft didn't see that one coming!

haha!

Does this commission really not realize how retarded they are?

I really want to say more, but I don't want to violate the "foul language and personal attacks" rule here (errr... at least not more than I already have).

How? By calling Microsoft's bluff?

Hardly "retarted".

Do you ever post your own opinions? Or do you simply bash other's opinions? Is the "Add a Comment" section grayed out on your web browser or something? Just saying I have yet to see you actually post anything that wasn't a reply to someone else's post.

What do YOU think MS should do?

My opinion is pretty obvious, they need to quit trying to get out of obeying the ruling, and comply with it.

I add my two cents when it's warranted. I didn't see a need to post a new comment. Cry for me.

Comply why?

Perhaps because they do business in the EU and the EU told them to?

Maybe the EU should ban the sale of Windows for a few days.

That would be interesting, and a much more likely scenario than Microsoft "pulling out" and just as destructive to Microsoft.

Honestly, I hope they just quit beating around the bush and fine them. It's about time someone put them in check.

So, MS bundles a music player for free. I don't have to pay for some other lame player like the ever lovely Real Player.
MS bundles a web browser for free. I don't have to pay for Netscape.

The EU decides this is unfair to me, the consumer.

What is in the wine in Belgium? I no longer have to pay, I have a free tool or I can still go pay for one. This is bad.

Okie Dokie EU...

Netscape is free...

I've been following this story for a while now too. It appears to me that Microsoft is trying to get out of licensing its protocols to specific parties, namely the open source community. They keep on skirting the issue. "Oh it's not enough to have stringent and exclusionary licensing policy for the server protocols? Well I *guess* we'll have to have a stringent licensing policy around the whole body of source code." Ummm...no, just take out the exclusionary part of your licensing policy - the part that makes it impossible for open source projects. Stick to the ruling. It's like a 3 year old - "I'm sorry I hit my brother, what if I am really nice to my sister and hit my brother. Does that make things okay?"

This is exactly what this is about, namely getting out of licensing to SAMBA (and Wine too I believe)

Innovative? Micosoft????

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHHA AH HA HAH AH HA HA AAHAH HA HA AAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hey now, they innovated marketing other's ideas.
>:)

This has got to stop! I've been following this story for a while now and I am just dumbfounded at the EU's audacity. I cannot believe they have the nerve to tell MICROSOFT, to prove THEIR own multi-billion dollar OS's source code is INNOVATIVE! For God sakes! What is wrong with them? This is a blatant attempt at getting money out of MS, they keep changing their demands and changing the rules. I can't believe our own gov't is allowing this to happen to one of our own companies. I wish someone would step in and stop this. This is wrong on many levels.

What's our government going to do, go to war over it?

Doubtful. Just because you don't like the rules, that doesn't mean the EU can't enforce them. Microsoft knew the risks of becoming a global organization when they became one.

It's not wrong at all, these are the things companies live with every day they are in business. That's why most companies don't do things that aren't legal or "legally grey".

That's why most companies don't do things that aren't legal or "legally grey"

What company is that? Not to many out there!

Can you back that up?

Microsoft can afford 2 million a day i'm sure. Steve will just have to cut back on the junk food. :)

drumcat, you are forgetting that Europe is a gigantic market for Microsoft, one they can't live without.

"Can't live without it"

Right on. Their own shareholders would sue them into the dirt.

Yes...unfortunately you are correct. However if the EU threatens to sue them into the dirt...MS may HAVE to pull out. It is remotely possible, depending on how big of jerks the EU wants to make themselves out to be.

[sarcasm]
Meh...

Good for EU, bad for MS.

I fail to see a downside here.

[/sarcasm]

I meant it as a sarcastic snide, but in reality, if a company is being fined more than the profit they make in a market, why would shareholders be pissy?

Frankly, this is just an EU tax. Socialism is alive and well in Europe.

"European Commission antitrust head Neelie Kroes told EU lawmakers on Tuesday that Microsoft cannot charge a licensing fee for the Windows source code it has promised to share, unless it can prove such code is 'innovative.'"

ROFLMAO!!! PROVE that the code is innovative?!? Anybody think that MS could do that without SHARING the code anyway???

IMO the fact that MS is so successful means the code is innovative, otherwise Apple and Linux would've had the upper hand.

"Based on Microsoft's response, the EU could decide to enforce a 2 million euro per day fine dating back to December."

If they can, they will. I'm not sure that they could get away with it though given the circumstances. But I could be wrong.

MS hardly makes innovative code. They take everything(ideas wise) from other OS's and package it up in a nice box for lots of $$$.

Have you seen their new OSV?

LMAO -- this is funny.

I think Microsoft forgets it's holding the upper hand. Just refuse to ship to Europe. Completely stop. See how the Euros panic.

you're right, your comment *was* funny. Because MS would never do such a thing since their shareholders would have their assess in court in a matter of seconds.

Court? I doubt there would be a need. All they would have to do is have a majority vote to can them all.

I doubt it would take a day.

Hopefully they could pull it off before their stock tanked because believe me, it would hit rock bottom in hours. (When that happens I'll buy heh)

lmao..

In that case, I hope they pull out around Mid May...I expect to have my refund by then.

HAHA!

"Microsoft announced a broad program last week to provide the entire source code to Windows Server."

The Entire Source Code?

Not just the networking protocols?

I was thinking the same thing PC_Tool. The code that microsoft said it would provide only covers the network protocols from what i understand, and even those will probably be butchered up.

My point entirely.

From the article:

"No Fee for Windows Source Code"

"Microsoft cannot charge a licensing fee for the Windows source code"

"was to open the source code of Windows Server networking protocols"

"Microsoft announced a broad program last week to provide the entire source code to Windows Server."

"offer a license to the source code of the Windows server operating system"

Only *one* of those specifies Networking Protocols. The rest lead, probably purposefully, toward the sensational conclusion that MS is being forced to release the code to their entire OS.

Which is Bunk.

Which would make half the posters in this thread probably not post. (Oh Noes! EU is forcing them to give away their souce code!!)

Which would make for a rather boring topic.

Let's try to be a bit more specific, eh, Nate? Please? For me? As a personal favor? Especially when confusion on this point has raged in *all* previous articles on this topic?

I'd *really* appreciate it.

Thanks.