As long as there's a little box with wording along the line " THe US govt. may wish to sell your infor onto interested 3rd parties, please tick here if you'd prefer them not to" who Cares.

Most information is freely available anyway, I'm pretty sure it's not beyond the wit of the FBI, CIA, etc. to find out all this info.

Providing the line at airport immigration doesn't take longer than currently (hopefully it might even improve) They can have all the info they like...hell I have to give it to them next year when I marry a US girl anyway.

To me - that's actually the big deal ---- I understand completely the tension between privacy and security. If there was a way to be sure (for example) that my personal information would not and COULD not be used for anything other than to verify that I'm not a terrorist, I would not have a problem.

My favorite example is that of using the toll-free RFID system used to cross over a bridge. Clearly (since I have to be billed) it can be known to the authorities that I went over some bridge at 2pm last Tuesday night (say). But what if I'm married and having an affair and went to visit my mistress? While some might object on moral grounds (and others would be jealous :-), I would clearly not want a divorce lawyer or private detective to be able to find out this information. Nor would I want it to be known that I used my credit card to buy gifts for a mistress.

So if the government could guarantee that this information could never be used either directly or indirectly (e.g., detective finds out I went over the bridge and therefore starts looking for OTHER evidence of my dubious morals), then I would have no problem releasing private information to the government.

However, I don't see any practical way to eliminate mistakes.

That is exactly how my mistress and I feel about it!!

If you cannot accept the possible consequences of your actions, maybe you shouldn't perform the immoral or illegal act.

I ‘spose next you're going to tell me it's "not your fault," for doing it either.

Grow up.

Thanks EU for the hookup.

'nuff said.

Why go through all the hassel? Just fly to mexico on vacation and sneak over the boarder from the south. Millions of mexicans have done it and are continuing to do it. Heck we will even let you live here for free without paying taxes and set you up with a good paying job and eve a nice place to live. If your caught? We will let you go and look the other direction. This is the u.s. home of the immigrant! You just can't fly in though just come in from the south of the boarder and learn some spanish and get a tan!

There's a certain mortality rate among those who try to sneak in from Mexico, especially into Arizona. When I lived in Tucson, the newspaper would all too often have a mention of yet another body of an illegal immigrant.

I fly inti US every year.Is this a reciprical agreement where Europe collects the same info?
I thought the US was the land of free. Why are there so many law inforcement agencies?

The truth is that I am entering into a debate with the proverbial fool...

But let's just say that the US has a slight difference of opinion regarding extending the same rights and priveleges to known terrorists. And its just a bit ironic that this objection comes from those from countries whose intrusion into the personal lives of citizens via their socialist social policies make a mockery of their very own objections!

You and your friends don't have to provide such information. But then the US establishes the rules they determine to be appropriate to enter US territory. And likewise, when US citizens travel to your country, YOU determine the rules for entry. Fascinating concept, isn't it!?

If you and your erudite socialist friends don't like that, you are quite welcome and free to stay home, as we certainly wouldn't want to offend your delicate sensibilities.

So just one more reason to never come to the US! It's becoming more and more of a police state and US citizens are letting it happen because their governement is doing a good job of scaring them.
If only the US would have a bit more respect to other cultures and trying to help reduce poverty around the world (which the billions of dollars spent on recent wars could have provided for, but no; the companies who funded the presidential and other campaigns wouldn't have made money then) then there wouldn't be so much terrorist threaths. Why don't try to solve the problem at its roots??

Yeah, I have friends in the US but this sort of behaviour really discourages me from ever visiting them.

If anyone seriously thinks this is going to be effective for the reasons stated,then they must be deluded.

Here's how to stop terrorism.
1. Find out what it is that you're doing wrong that would make people take such extreme actions.
2. Stop doing it!

Unfortunately, things have gone so far now this isn't really going to work by itself anymore. The US is just going to have to face up that it has created a huge problem, and endangered everyone by it's empire-building actions. Now we're all going to have to deal with the consequences. :-(

There is no question that the US is going overboard in some of its attempts to solve the terrorism problem - in particular with what seems like the erosion of civil liberties. This has been helped by a ton of ignorance on the part of 50% (apparently) people in the US who have been taken in by the current administration's marketing tactics.

On the other hand, there is Iran wanting to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. You have Palestinians hiding behind their civilians. You have extremist Islamists who hate the west and have managed to train children into believing that killing themselves will lead to their salvation, etc., etc.

If people don't like American TV, movives, or American products, and so on, they can stop watching them or buying them etc. Money talks in the US :-) Last time I looked, a terrorist was wearing Nike shoes for goodness sake!

I'm not sure what you mean by empire but I'll assume you're talking about Iraq - and I agree completely that the US should (a) never have gone there and (b) needs to get out. Rationally however, it's very difficult to undo Iraq and something that needs to be worked out carefully WITH EVERYONE COOPERATING.

But your argument that they (the US) must find out what they're doing wrong is just as frightening.

It's like saying that when the KKK burns down a black person's home, it's up to the black person to find out what he is did wrong to justify the KKK's action. Or when someone beats up a man for being gay, it means the gay person did something wrong?

Terrorists DID destroy the world trade center, killing thousands. When was the last time a Westerner (not a terrorist living in the west ) hijacked an airplane or took over a cruise ship?

The problem is not a one way street. And while there is asymmetry in belief systems (live and let live vs you must do it MY way), this problem will never be solved.

"So just one more reason to never come to the US! It's becoming more and more of a police state and US citizens are letting it happen because their governement is doing a good job of scaring them."

The "government" isn't even being heard anymore. Seriously, when's the last time you've heard them speak? When I turn on the tube, most of what I hear is opinions and commentaries--and mostly anti-Bush related.

God gave us two ears and one mouth, yet the media is speaking more against Bush without even listening.

"So just one more reason to never come to the US!"

Why? Because one person (or two people...RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!) in a betanews forum believe something that you disagree with? Seriously, what reason are you refering to specifically?

"It's becoming more and more of a police state and US citizens are letting it happen because their governement is doing a good job of scaring them."

No, it's people with attitudes like yours who scare me. No offense to you personally--your attitude is one of distrust, mainley based on over-hyped media coverage of political BS. Bush has screwed up on many things, the WMD argument being one of them, but there is a problem when politics create a situation where Bush "cannot be trusted". If it were John Kerry (or heck even Gore) I still wouldn't have the gall to act as if they were such evil people. I may not trust them, but I trust in the process. The President is not king, only President, and at this point isn't even the biggest player. If Al Gore was told Iraq had WMD by US and British intelligence, would he have been wrong? Of course not, because you trust his judgement (Ahh now you see how those "stupid conservative morons' could belive what they do).

I am scared by the response of the people, as they are our future. Bush is gone in 2008, and God knows how pivotal the 2008 election will be. I believe it will be a deciding factor in our countries fate.

Withen 20 years our entire government could collapse, and it started when well-intending SC Judges said that they could regulate speech "if"... However, the 1st Amendment makes it forbidden for CONGRESS to do this (the states though? They are entitled to regulate speech, read the 10th amendment--it doesn't lie like CNN does). Pardon my rabbit trail, back to subject:

"If only the US would have a bit more respect to other cultures and trying to help reduce poverty around the world (which the billions of dollars spent on recent wars could have provided for, but no; the companies who funded the presidential and other campaigns wouldn't have made money then)"

And you read that or heard it from a news station...too bad they lie too. Why don't you look at what we do in detail: http://usinfo.state.gov/...933AKllennoCcM0.9979517 Notice it was approved unanimously? That's something you never hear on the news, but it happens all the time. Also look here: http://lilt.ilstu.edu/gm...New_Folder/divide14.gif Notice how the US foreign aid skyrockets when GWB is elected...

"which the billions of dollars spent on recent wars could have provided for, but no; the companies who funded the presidential and other campaigns wouldn't have made money then"

Regretably, there is much truth in this--however, I can't show at the moment, but I just read that GWB has again lowered the national debt from last quarter.

"then there wouldn't be so much terrorist threaths. Why don't try to solve the problem at its roots??"

It's not that simple--but then again how would you know unless you researched the data? Most terrorists hate us because despite what we may be, they believe us to be a Christian nation. They take the Quaran literally and are "at war" with Christianity. They hate Christians. To even listen to a Christian (infadel) speak is punishable by death. So let's just give them some financial aid, that'll work (rollss eyes). Do you think we could have "bribed" Saddam out? Bribed Osama to give himself up? What are you saying, because I must be mis-understanding you...?

What Bush did was he wanted to convert an area that was a critical geographical area so that we could better understand and fight our enemy. He would deny this adamantly, but I believe Iraq was critical because he wanted the terrorists to come out of hiding. That way, he could fight on our terms rather than fighting and destroying innocents with the terrorists. It succeeded in drawing them out, but it was not as he expected.

Nonetheless, had we not gone to Iraq, imagine how many terrorists would still be alive today? We wiped out truckloads in Iraq, but only because that forced them out of hiding and into fighting.

It's all a matter of perspective. You will believe me to be a crazy Bush lover with no clue of reality, but that is only because your reasoning is different from mine. Based on the presupposition that Bush is a lying snake--yes, he is an evil dictater. Only thing that makes my thought process fundamentally different from yours is that I trust him and you don't. I have found dirt on him, and continuously find it to be incorrect based on the facts. Truth is we are spending more in foreign aid than any Democratic President has right now, and yet the economy is stable, and the national debt is decreasing.

How many billions is the EU spending in foreign aid, by the way? Look that up--it's definately not small, but it'll surprise you :)

Wowa! this is beta software news allright. What are you guys going to be reporting next? 10 more troops died in iraq today?

"Why are there so many law inforcement agencies?"

Why are there not more car bombs, and suicide bombers, and terrorists in America?

Oh yeah, because there are so many law enforcement agencies!

;-)

"So just one more reason to never come to the US!"

Phew!

heh

"Find out what it is that you're doing wrong that would make people take such extreme actions."

Hmm, stopping countries from being ruled by tyranny and crime lords comes immediately to mind.

I'm ok with stopping this, but that's just me.

The problem is that this President vaguely thinks he is!
AND he claims to have the ear of God.

Sigh,

---> The President is not king, only President, and at this point isn't even the biggest player.

Ok, i admit... "So just one more reason to never come to the US!" was a bit too much. Partially my feelings and partially to evoke a reaction. I'm sure i'll visit the US once in my life and have a look around.

In fact i'm actually a trusting kind of person but i don't trust a system where elections can be bought. Ok, you still need the votes, but having lots of money through funding by large corporations gives you a head start.
I also have overcome the election of Bush. The re-election is the part i still have troubles to cope with.

I stand by my comment: "It's becoming more and more of a police state and US citizens are letting it happen because their governement is doing a good job of scaring them."
Living in anxiety isn't worth living at all. Real threaths should be warned for and dealt with but often when i hear an US president (the problem excists some time) or governement officials speak it is about threats (and unfortunately it's lately also happening here in Europe as well). Also your Homeland Security Advisory System is a bit of a laugh to my opinion. I can be wrong but i see it more as a political instrument and cannot see real advantages of it.
Again that's my opinion. It's not the media over here (the Netherlands) that's telling me what to think. I'm well aware of the fact that the media in the US is somewhat "politically coloured", bringing stories (or not in that mather) that complements their political view. Over here, to my opinion, it is a bit more objective. And while i'm a newsjunkie i read/view German news (as my girlfriend is German) and lot's of English/US news. Funny to see how the media bring the same news differently.

I'm sorry and with all due respect but your statement about US foreign aid made me laugh. Please read this http://www.globalissues....eRelated/Debt/USAid.asp and i hope you can see why.
Also keep in mind that the war in Iraq so far costs around $300 billion and that a lot of billions of dollars go to military aid as your source mentions. Though it's promising that the aid is gowing up.

Your right that some people hate christians so much and that isn't gowing to change. But in numbers this group is pretty small. The followers that these people gather can be brought to a minimum when poverty is taken care of. People with nothing to lose are easy to recruit.
Not that i'm so naive that everything can be solved with words. Wars are sometimes inevitable but i think the US is gowing into war too soon or too optimistic. Civilian casualties are a bigger problem than most people think. Think about the media attention a case like Natalee Holloway gets. If every kid that died in Iraq got the same attention than the papers couldn't report anything else. Most people don't really care about that because "it's far far away and it's only Iraqi". This is also raising anti US sentiment but lets not go too far with this.

By the way, i don't think you're a crazy bush lover :) You are one of the people over here which whom you really can have a discussion unlike some others.

One thing to point out is that it is the Land of the Free to the CITIZENS of America. Not the world. There can and should be restrictions on what is done and how people are handled who are not legal citizens of this country.

Just as things work in other countries where US citizens are not members of some other country.

"Find out what you're doing wrong that could make people take such extreme actions."

OK, the problem is that we are a Christian Nation. As was pointed out above, extremist muslims HATE Christians and seek to kill them.

The USA does more to help people all over the world than any other country (or EU for that matter). Not just the government, but the citizens by themselves donating to charities.

So don't tell me it's something we're doing. These terrorists would still be doing the same thing to Germany or Spain or Russia if they were at the top of the list. We are very visible and vulnerable because we are an open society. That really rubs some people the wrong way. The only way we could "stop doing it" would be to give up and allow the terrorists to come in take control.

Start looking into what life is like for non-mulsims in countries like Sudan, Iran, even Iraq prior to the war. Find out what it would really be like and maybe you'll rethink all this.

Heck - look at how they treat each other in Iraq. What the media terms as a "secular" conflict between the Sunnis and the s***es!!! This is not a "secular" conflict. It is a conflict between differing interpretations of the Quran.

It's time for the world to take our head out of the sand and see that in the case of the extremists, there can only be one solution. And if the USA falls, the rest of the world will follow shortly.

That alone should make you quake in your boots.

"one more reason to never come to the US"
if you don't want to visit US then don't. it's not like you need another excuse why you don't want to.

"It's becoming more and more of a police state"
nop, it's the arabs/muslims becoming more and more agressive.

"If only the US would have a bit more respect to other cultures and trying to help reduce poverty around the world "
as capitalist nation US would only help reduce poverty if it sees financial benefit for it self for doing so(wake up, no country does anything out of good heartiness and never did). US respects other culures as long as they return respect and don't have bad intensions. consider US itself is nothing else then huge cultural mix.

"Why don't try to solve the problem at its roots?? "
you mean eradicate arabs/muslims? that would be kinda hard...

"AND he claims to have the ear of God."

I don't know exactly what you are refering to--what did he say specifically? I know he claims he hears from God--but hearing from God does not require the "ear of God"...

I guess I'll just leave from Norway when I visit the US ever then. They seem to be the only sensible country who don't give a rats arse what the USA want.

So...the point is only that you must not give a rats "arse" what the USA says? Or do you have an actual reason that you cannot fly from EU (other than the US wanting you to)? Do tell.

Yes lets some Al qaeda fly with you. Im sure they love Norway's policy as well.

Yep, they sure are nice! And to think that they seem to still harbor some resentment regarding the 'neutral' Swedes who failed to actively oppose the Nazis during WW2 who set up a base of operation in Sweden from which to stage their attack on Norway.

Yep, they do have standards don't they....when it benefits THEIR interests!

Yes, I make it a regular thing to take several bombs, anti-aircraft missiles and the occasional hand grenade with me when I fly.

My point is, why bother enforcing it in one country when all the other countries don't have to bother. Don't you think that these terrorists will just take off from somewhere *else*.

They just want to know information on everyone full stop. 'Why' is the key question.

If there's an option of course I would prefer to keep *my* details known only to me.

I'm sure they will, thus turning this policy into a joke and a complete waste of time.

Why must you americans always bring up WWII? There almost can't be made sensible conclusions. The world has changed a lot in 60 years.

But if you do think so; more recently then: who funded Bin Laden in the mid-eighties? And who helped Saddam to power in Iraq?

So are you saying the Nazis *should* have been allowed into Sweden? Or are you suggesting that for some reason it's a bad thing now that they don't give 34 pieces of personal data to a penpusher in the USA, and this is somehow a double standard?

They chose not to be part of the EU, which in most other articles people from outside of the EU seem to hate too (EU Fining Microsoft for example). As such they don't have to give out the information yet.

There is no reason for them to give out the data, so they won't or else their populous would be rather ****ed off, wouldn't they. The last thing America in particular need is to piss of a country that has lots of lovely oil.

Or maybe that's a reason to go to war with them?

I'm inclined to echo that comment.

"Why must you americans always bring up WWII?"

Because it was the last time they were involved in a war that wasn't an embarrassment?

Exactly. And besides, a careful look at history will reveal that America in fact started WW2 through its policies in Europe and the Pacific since WW1 and beyond.

Germany would not have had the sort of peace treaty left over from WW1 had it not been for the US (who for that matter should have stayed out of WW1 altogether). With less revanchism and an economy not pushed over the edge by the Wall Street Crash, the NSDAP would most likely not have attracted any serious numbers. Not to mention Prescott Bush and the lot who invested in 1930s Germany and enabled Germany to rebuild its armed forces. Japan on the other hand was culturally molested, got training, weapons from the US and more importantly -- inspiration to open up its own imperial project, just like America. Who can blame them really. They saw their entire way of life destroyed and America's even cruder subjugation of neighbouring countries. The best defence is a good offence and all that.

Yeah Mr Wizard...I am suggesting that the Nazis (you know - the NICE Europeans - as opposed to those mean nasty Americans) should have been allowed into Sweden! (do you denote just a bit of sarcasm for those ignorant enough of history to have missed it?) Obviously you know NOTHING of history or you wouldn't be asking such asinine questions! Let's just say the Norwegiens had a bit of a problem with the Swedes who placed their own self interest over the welfare of others affected by the wonderfully urbane & trendy Nazi tourists! ...Just like the idiot below who posits that the US started WW2!

Let's see, how many dictatorial socialist governments have there been in Europe in the last 50 years? Yeah, lecture the US. Seems to me you have your hands full simply trying to figure out what refrigeration, bathes and air conditioning are - especially as >20K people died (in France alone!) simply due to temperatures reaching 100 degF and the morgues overflowing throughout the month of August as no one could be bothered to take time out from their vacation to even claim the bodies of their own family members! But just like Bosnia where the EU refuses to address their own local regional issues, the whining results in WHO having to come in and help!? Yup, it must be those damned Americans who are responsible for MORE of your trendy Euro-style genocide.

I can definately understand how resum(ing) the practice of making available 34 elements of personal data, including names, addresses, credit card numbers, and other identifying information" would seriously compromise your integrity - especially coming from a SOCIALIST country where you have ALREADY surrendered your oun personal responsibility long ago as the Euro are only SHARING personal information ALREADY COLLECTED by your own agencies!!!!

Seldom does one encounter responses that so obtuse and amazingly ignorant. But then the same groups enlightened groups claim the Holocaust never happened. Here's an idea - use your same selective attention to ignore that the basic personal information that enables funds transfers for financing terrorism are screened.

And oh, put your hand back in your pocket as you whine like little birds in a nest screaming "me, me, me, me, me" about the US not paying for more worldwide aid.

Let's see...oh, it seems the French, Germans and Russians all had ALLOT of 'hidden' economically lucrative contracts with Saddam that were compromised by entering Iraq! So WHO was funding the largest source of genocide in the 20th century after Stalin and Mao. Not to mention your quaint little 'oil for food' UN scandal as only the Euros can do.

And just how did the modern map of the Middle East come to be drawn? Oh yeah, the British, Dutch and French intentionally divided each ethnic group in their redrawing and ingenious creation of the modern states after WW1 as their primary concern was their ability to exploit the region for their own economic benefit based upon oil! The romantic story of Lawrence of Arabia is so quaint...its a shame the movie ends with the end of the war and not the actual end of the story! You are right, it would be so much easier to simply ignore history!

The irony is that the US could have easily had all of the Iraqi oil they wanted had they only gone to Saddam and said - hey - the US gets the oil and you live well or the US takes you out. They could have easily imposed a very lucrative arrangement that not only allowed a contained Saddam to survive, but benefited themselves in a very simple manner had they made oil the primary issue and simply chosen to ignore the 60 ton genocide elephant in the room - a consumate skill possessed by many Euros to which the US can only aspire.

Yeah, the US dictated the terms of the Treaty of Versailles!
Where do you get your concept of history? ...from the intro to Doom?
Read a book.

Hey, it beats celebrating the French Revolution whereby the grand experiment in socialism was initiated by a rousing genocide!

Well said.

You seem to have missed my point here, which perhaps I didn't make clear enough, and for that I'm sorry.

However, I see absolutely NO point in ordering information about people from European Citizens when there is no call for this information to be collected from non European Union (in the example Norway) countries.

I have no issue with the history lesson at all, as I for one didn't particularly care for history at school (the teachers failed to grab my interest, which is the main way I learn).

You seem to have picked on Sweden as being (if I cut to the chase) crap in your example here, and I was talking about Norway, who keep themselves out of the European Union as they have nothing to gain from it as they are the richest country in the world (I believe).

"And oh, put your hand back in your pocket as you whine like little birds in a nest screaming "me, me, me, me, me" about the US not paying for more worldwide aid."

It's not for want of the English people trying. Band Aid for example (I don't know how much you got of that in the USA) was a huge mission to get the World Leaders to pay more towards other poorer countries and alleviate some (if not all) of their debt.
Unfortunately the decisions end up being made by the government rather than the people.

So: why are only the EU being asked to give out this information about its people?

Let's try and keep this friendly, ok?

Your failure to see the double standard regarding Norway is indeed a failure of YOU and your learning method - as if it is the teachers responsibility to 'capture' your interest! - and not YOUR responsibility to learn it in spite of the teachers!

The article does not say that Norway REFUSES to disclose this information. But if they do, it is ironic as they have a serious historical 'diasagreement' with Sweden who themselves chose to ignore a rather significant source of what the Norwegians considered terrorism as the 'neutral' Swedes allowed the Nazis to operate unimpeded out of Sweden as they attacked Norway!!!

Sorry if this significance was lost on you! But some have studied history - regardless of whether their teacher was cute or engaging!

Europe has become the primary vector for ingress into the US by the various primary groups involved in terrorism. If Antartica should become a high probability source, then it will become sensible to focus on travellers from Antarctica! Duh!

Regardless of the proclivity for Hispanics to come acreoss the southern borders, they have not proven to have terrorist tendencies in the manner we are focusing upon here!

And regarding the information requested that was defined in the article has proven to be an amazingly effective vector for identifying terrorists! Money transfers have been the primary technique for identifying these individuals - and it has been used efectively to an even greater degree in EUROPE!!! Hence the identification of the London and Spanish bombers!

Its easy to plead ignorance and to fein indignation at imagined slights - it is another thing to recognize reality and to attempt to address REAL situations that actively kill people without the carte blance invasion of privacy some claim as some imagined right.

Read your credit card EULA. There is NO guarantee of privacy! Quite the contrary!! In fact, they explicitly state that they will collect and use such information expressly for commercial purposes and that they will share it with other commercial partners! And every person with a credit card has agreed to this! If you disagree so strenuously, assume responsibility for your own actions at the appropriate time! And if it is such an imposition, then don't have a credit card! Duh! Such a pathetic victim mentality brought on by your own irresponsible actions!

I find it amazing that so many think that the sharing of such information with complete strangers/partners who can use it or distribute it any way they want is fine (no mass demostrations there!!!!), but the express use of this ame information soley in the attempt to identify and mitigate terrorists is unacceptable! You have amazing priorities!

And if this is still too restrictive, you are always free to refuse the US 'EULA" and to stay at home.

Yes, it makes sense to expend the same enegy and resources to strip search every 80 year old Scandinavian grandmother, as they have proven to be an exceptionally large terrorist threat!

Don't attempt to focus resources on the areas of the statistically larger threat!

After all, don't just administer rabies vaccines to high probability vectors such as dogs; instead expend the same effort and expense to treat and to make sure that fish, mountain goats, yaks, tasmanian devils, snow leopards, platypi, chameleons and other equally remote vectors for transmitting the disease to humans are addressed. And just to be fair, lets make sure the grass is innoculated against rabies - it makes no difference if the grass isnt even a vector! After all, equal application of the rules is paramount in your illogic!

As if we need to clamp down on those dasdardly Aluets and Eskimos - after all, they are a powerful source of radical Islamic terrorism!

But most of all, DO NOT emply any common sense!

Bringing this sharing of information idea back in is just going to push the terrorism problem around a bit. Without fully enforcing this everywhere (which is nigh on impossible) the terrorists will take off from a different country that doesn't have to give out this information.

There is so little point in bringing it in if you only bring it in in one area. Terrorists are (generally) clever and calculating, which means they'll 'shop around' if you will, and find the best place to attack from.

Pushing the problem around isn't going to fix the problem.

It'll help block people taking off from the EU from terrorising, yeah, but it only means they'll go somewhere else.

I don't give a toss whether the EU have my information (which incidentally they have little of as indeed I *don't* have a credit card, but that is for other reasons [no, not because I have bad credit, criminal record etc etc]).

Filling half a hole still leaves you with a hole.

Woop-de-doo, you studied history. Go you.

Thank you for enlightening me about the Norway/Sweden stances of WW2, now stop bragging and calm down a little.

The USA have killed hundreds of times more people in retaliation of terrorism than has actually happened in America. But I'm guessing you choose to ignore that fact. And you actually wonder why terrorism is so rife and why you're pissing yourselves (as a nation, not necessarily you) over when the next attack will come.

If you stopped attacking them, don't you think they might just stop attacking you? Then we wouldn't have to have this argument over personal ID and thousands of people dead.

You could always get the UN involved... or maybe vetoing them just to get your own way will solve everything.

But this boils down to a 'who started it' argument, doesn't it.

I'd like to point out that almost no one (except this bloke apparently) actually believes this.

That's just twisting history to make it fit his hate of America.

You can hate America for *real* reasons, mate. There's no point in making s*** up.

They're hardly going to find other ways of making you get rabies though are they. Terrorists find more ways of causing terror; for example, taking off from airports in countries that don't have this arbitrary rule applied.

Hahaha, touché.

all americans are fat and george bush is a terrorist

oh boy...
And this guy takes the hyperbole (no, not the curve you slept through in algebra class!) literally!!! Hyperbole is an exaggeration used to make a point! But it is dependent upon one understanding the reference!!!

No genius, I am not worried about rabies!!!! And I don't care about the prospect of contracting rabies except via high probability vectors! So we only focus on the high probability vectors!

Sit down and I will try to go very s l o w l y for you.

The simple point is that you focus on the high probability vectors! And if this forces them to change and deviate from their established network of connections - great!, as they must react and they are not organized in the new locations. And as they change you simply modify your search pattern to adjust for the new vector. Duh!

And in response to the asinine comment of the century:
"If you stopped attacking them, don't you think they might just stop attacking you? Then we wouldn't have to have this argument over personal ID and thousands of people dead."
Spoken like Chamberlain!

COMPLETE AND UTTER NONSENSE! You must be 19 years old with a career coinsisting of sleeping through history classes!

"You could always get the UN involved... or maybe vetoing them just to get your own way will solve everything."

The most constructive thing the US could do with that incompetent farce of a theatrical organization is to withdraw and kick it out of the US and use their own funds for their own domestic needs.

Subsidizing a group of whiny representatives who do nothing but b!tch about the US for not doing enough to solve other's problems of the various countries' own making, as they simultaneously hold out their hands demanding more more more more aid is nothing but a bad comedy act.

"If you stopped attacking them, don't you think they might just stop attacking you? Then we wouldn't have to have this argument over personal ID and thousands of people dead."

Who were we attacking on 9/11? The US has only had democrocy for 230 years. We're not the world leader in killing people, despite what you want or have been led to believe.

Certainly not the U.S.! ;)

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

I think you'll find that the CIA provided both funding and training to Bin Ladens merry band of men in order to fight the Russians in Afghanistan.

Likewise, America gave money and training to Iraq to help it fight Iran.

You're absolutely correct. Just as the U.S. created their own dictators all over Central and South America and wonder why their is so much ill will in that part of the world. The term "banana republic," originated from some of those escapades.

I don't care about what I said as my secondary points and can't be bothered to explain what I meant to you.
Focus on my main point and we might have a discussion (or indeed a flame war).

"Subsidizing a group of whiny representatives who do nothing but b!tch about the US for not doing enough to solve other's problems of the various countries' own making, as they simultaneously hold out their hands demanding more more more more aid is nothing but a bad comedy act."

And your true colours are shown in one short paragraph: You're a d***.
Let's focus on that once piece at a time:
"Subsidizing a group of whiny representatives who do nothing but b!tch about the US for not doing enough to solve other's problems"
Ever wondered *why* they moan at you?

"of the various countries' own making"
Do the citizens of these countries *make* themselves starve and purposefully live in a country where they are not supplied with running water?
"as they simultaneously hold out their hands demanding more more more more aid is nothing but a bad comedy act."
That's not the fault of the people, that's the fault of their representative governments and their mishandling of the money that they get given (or don't as the case may be with America).
Maybe if they were given a little helping hand in getting the money from their pockets to their people they might stand a chance of becoming like one of us lucky rich countries in the West. We are in the lucky 5% of people that own 95% of the worlds wealth, but it seems you can't spare a couple of your well earned dollars to help people who don't have the chance to get the amount of money you and I make to be able to live a basic life.

Let me guess, you think Global Warming doesn't exist. Can't be bothered with the Kyoto Treaty because it won't affect you in your life time.

"No genius, I am not worried about rabies!!!!" Didn't say you were, you fabricated that on your own.

You'll hand over s***-loads of power to the UN eventually, you watch.

Fortunately America isn't entirely populated by self-obsessed people like you.

As a nation you voted in Clinton which was the smartest move you could have possibly made, and then you followed that by choosing Bush not once, but twice. What changed in those 8-or-so years of Clinton's leadership?

"The simple point is that you focus on the high probability vectors! And if this forces them to change and deviate from their established network of connections - great!"

Not so. They'll always be one step ahead of you if you do that. America will wait to be attacked from another continent/country until they demand passenger information out of them. It's taken them 5 years to get to the point they're at now so goodness only knows how long it'll take to move the operation elsewhere.
They won't know where the bombers/terrorists/whatever are coming from until either they've done their deed, or they enforce this information sharing from everywhere.

Nope, quite a substantial amount are though. They could be kind and save the money they spent on that second twinky to help less fortunate people, couldn't they.

On one level George Bush is a terrorist, he's causing people in the East terror because they don't know if they'll die because American (or indeed British) troops mistake them for the Taliban/other terrorist group of choice.
It's just that he's not plotting it in secrecy.

Are you arab/muslim terorist? if no you don't have anything t worry about.

i'm american and i'm far from fat - 160lbs ~80Kg. my wife even though american not fat either. so at least 2 americans are not fat, hense your statement is false, which makes you look dumb. have a nice life dumass. oh, and dont' forgrt to prey 5 times a day.

Logical fallacy. Don't be so stupid and naive. The US government doesn't need that much info on the citizens of another nation.

(deleted, read the entire article) Nevermind...

I have a large anal cavity.