RSSEndless reboots force suspension of Vista SP1 updates
By Scott M. Fulton, III | Published February 20, 2008, 12:52 PM
The reason it's called "beta testing" is to anticipate and isolate problems. But a big problem reported by some -- not all -- Vista SP1 testers is causing Microsoft to take a step back.
The regular update cycle for testers of Windows Vista Service Pack 1 was suspended yesterday afternoon, following multiple reports of downloaders discovering their automatically updating computers stuck in an endless cycle of reboots. This would mark the second time in two months that pockets of testers reported such a problem.
The first wave of endless reboots was initially reported on January 27 to Microsoft's forums. "Every time I start the computer it says: Configurating updates: stage 3 of 3 - 0% complete," reads the initial post. "And then reboots, and reboots, and reboots...I had it rebooting for over an hour before I stopped the madness."
Yesterday afternoon on his team's blog, Vista product manager Nick White stopped short of identifying the problem verbally, though he did acknowledge its existence. "Immediately after receiving reports of this error, we made the decision to temporarily suspend automatic distribution of the update to avoid further customer impact while we investigate possible causes," White wrote. "So far, we've been able to determine that this problem only affects a small number of customers in unique circumstances. We are working to identify possible solutions and will make the update available again shortly after we address the issue."
The update in question is a planned "prerequisite" update -- not a bug fix -- that addresses Vista's own capability to install new components for itself, and even re-install itself if necessary. Those new components are involved in the updating process, so the act of updating the updater seems very likely to cause troubles during the testing process.
"The installation software is the component that handles the installation and the removal of software updates, language packs, optional Windows features, and service packs," reads Microsoft's announcement of the prerequisite update, also known as the "servicing stack update," last February 12. "Update 937287 is necessary to successfully install and to remove Windows Vista SP1 on all versions of Windows Vista."
Some testers in recent weeks report that their own hasty attempts to resolve the problem resulted in losing all their files and applications -- a suggestion that they've actually been testing SP1 on the production computers rather than in a safe environment.
But more professional testers have discovered all is not lost for those stuck in the reboot cycle: Switching off their computers, then rebooting with a Vista Recovery CD and repairing the file system, does result in a restored Vista SP1...though apparently without the servicing stack update.
NOTE 2:35 pm ET February 20, 2008 - You might be wondering, and the question did come up after our initial post, hasn't Vista SP1 already released to manufacturing?
Yes it did. But the initial rollout is being done very carefully, in a staged progression that is still "beta testing" in a very real way. One of the reasons for this staging is in order for Microsoft to be able to catch problems such as this one, before they become widespread.
what!! sp1 was probably suppose to be the best thing that happenned to windows vista!!! didn't they have enought time to fix all the issues already!!!!!
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|XP = Current, Best stable windows OS
VISTA = Current, Worst most Unstable OS.
........hehe
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|Vista - so funny. lol
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|Wrote on another board about not putting in the SP1 Beta, It killed my computer so had to redo the drive. SP1 was a dud, didn't do a thing but constant reboots with a blue screen of death that flashed so fast you could not figure out what the problem was to try to eliminate it. AND SAFE MODE safe mode was trashed too, so there was no way to bring up the system.
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|I don't see what you are complaining about!
According to terminalX below you are just one person, and why should they add "new features" to fix your machine?
"You apparently don't understand the point of a beta, just because YOU submit something doesn't mean MS is going to put it in, if no one else wants it but you they are not going to rewrite code to appease one person." terminalX
Safe Mode is corrupted too? Wow. MS has outdone themselves this time!
So, perhaps you should get with the program!
ROFLMAO...
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|"Some testers in recent weeks report that their own hasty attempts to resolve the problem resulted in losing all their files and applications -- a suggestion that they've actually been testing SP1 on the production computers rather than in a safe environment."
Or perhaps they were testing application compatibility with vista? This is a normal proceedure during beta testing, not just testing the OS itself, but the ability for the OS and regularly used applications and games to interact normally with the OS.
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|I'm waiting for toolie to tell us this is a good thing for all of us to 'shut up!' 'shut up!' 'shut up!' Microsoft doesn't make mistakes, we just downloaded it improperly!
Guess we'll have to wait until SP2 to get the bugs worked out of the yet-released SP1!
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|Its not unusual for a first release of the OS to have some bugs...
But for the fixes to reek such a degree of havoc is a bit novel.
But what is even funnier is to watch all of the MS fanboys freaking out over the obvious humor of the irony of a major service patch bringing down so many machines and so many losing data - doesn't speak well for the release nor for the myriad MS admin who put a beta on a production machine.
Sounds like the problem is endemic from the developer all the way to the end users. And simple code can't fix that level of intelligence.
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|Microsoft also has a problem with listening to people's comments about SP1. I submitted a few comments in the last month and they have never indicated they were going to change (fix) anything. Typical MS!
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|You apparently don't understand the point of a beta, just because YOU submit something doesn't mean MS is going to put it in, if no one else wants it but you they are not going to rewrite code to appease one person.
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|If his response is in reference to a PROBLEM with the Beta, it IS their responsibility to note it and to test and resolve it!
He is not simply submitting ideas for some new functionality!
Obviously YOU don't understand the point of a beta which is to identify bugs and to resolve them - not blow problems off as a request for something new (functional software???gee, that's new...) for one person!
DUH!!!!
OK, perhaps I was a bit harsh, as I speak of what a responsible company should do.
In this case, it may well be that properly functioning code is seen by MS as 'something new that they will put in to appease one person'.
And hence the sense of irony that a major service release can bring down so many functioning machines that even the first OS release couldn't...
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|Hmm no problem @ my end with the beta SP1
Vista Business 64bit
anyone know if the RTM sp1 will "upgrade" the beta sp1?
I'd hate to have to re-format.
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|1. The new TCP Stack
2. DirectX v10+
3. SMB2
If we could just get these 3 features in Windows XP, there would be no use for Vista. No need to upgrade to that bloated sh*t, ever (not that there is NOW, but i'm just sayin').
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|That's ignorant as hell. Sure, requiring users to have full admin rights to run all your apps and devices is so much better.
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|I'll tell you what's ignorant. It's that bullsh*t UAC crap which trains and conditions the already sub-dim-witted masses to consistently click "yes & allow" even more easily and with less thinking then was previously thought to be possible. It does the OPPOSITE of what MS intended since they failed to realize that reduced permissions ONLY work well in Linux based OS's since by default users of those systems are more computer savvy and I would even venture to say, more intelligent on the whole.
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|Thats definitely true...
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|Now now, lets give credit where credit it due. If most Windows users weren't ignorant as hell having full admin rights would be a non issue.
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|I've installed SP1 RTM on over a dozen different computers, desktops and laptops, HP and Dell mostly. One is five years old. One is brand new. Not one had any problems with SP1 whatsover. This sounds like FUD to me.
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|Hard to believe, yet another blooper for MS history...
The philosophy of flawed by design did not change. Maybe Windows 7?
I really do not know what to think, MS had too many years and software development cycles to keep releasing amateurish-like software.
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|You absolute and total prick.
Beta testing is testing on people who accept the possibility of catastrophic failure.
Microsoft cannot possibly be able to write tens of millions of lines of code without a single flaw.
In this particular case it hasn't been released to the public anyway. Plus the problem only arises for isolated people in this case too, which is probably why Microsoft hadn't been able to pick it up themselves.
No, Microsoft don't make the most stable OS in the world, however, they do have to support the widest range of hardware of any OS.
That ain't easy, you know.
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|Wow. That's a bold statement. I suppose you've written code in the range of millions of lines and had no bugs or problems whatsoever? You must be God. Linux never crashes, right? OSX never crashes? BS.
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|Kudos Paul, well said.
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|"Beta testing is testing on people who accept the possibility of catastrophic failure."
Some would say they succeeded. But then its hard to tell if its a bug or just another proverbial feature.
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|That's a different thing entirely.
And I would suspect it's probably a common feature at the start of their testing of patches/new software.
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|SP1 was already released to manufacturing, so it is NOT beta (or should not be).
Nobody asked for billions of code lines without errors but enough testing to avoid grave failings as the described in the article.
MS have the tradition to release unfinished extremely bugged products to retail and that seems like it is not changing at all, that is what I am questioning...
Now Paul, you do not have to insult me because you do not think the same. You are wrong in your statement and I wont tell you are a liar or idiot because of that, you still have to learn to be polite...
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|This is affecting only a small amount of people as been stated in the article.
It is impossible to make something work 100% with thousands upon thousands of configurations, so if a certain minority of users using one type of hardware is very limited but seems to be having problems MS may never know.
Let me know when that mythical OS that works on every single pc without a single problem comes out....
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|Nice talk. You must be a really fun guy. Since when was it the end user's responsability to make Microsoft's products more stable? Every final release of a Windows OS since 95 has been a beta. Was someone holding a gun to Ballmer's head to force him to release Vista? I doubt that it was even an alpha when it went to OEM's.
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|See the update to the article, you twat.
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|I'm fine with arguing a point properly, but if you make ridiculous statements that are obviously false then yes, I am going to have a go at you some times.
"that is what I am questioning" you weren't questioning anything; you were stating.
Anyway, see the update to the article. It's not really been released to consumers.
Also, it's happened to a very small and very specific minority that is difficult to catch with internal testing.
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|I read the update, It says that Microsoft is pissing in the ocean to make it salty. This is an exercise in futility.
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|The other thing to note is it isn't actually SP1 that's the cause here.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7205059.stm
Read the last 4 paragraphs.
It's the update before SP1 can be applied.
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|...told ya.
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|Gee, I don't see how allowing the software that updates all the other software to modify itself could cause a problem.
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|"Some testers in recent weeks report that their own hasty attempts to resolve the problem resulted in losing all their files and applications -- a suggestion that they've actually been testing SP1 on the production computers rather than in a safe environment."
d*** heads.
"...though apparently without the servicing stack update."
Well duh.
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|I had the reboot problem and I did not install SP1. It happen after the 2/12 updates. It took four days talking to Microsoft Indians to fix the promblem...ended up doing a system update which took almost 3 hours. It had something to do with Update 937287 causing all the problems. So I* was not testing SP1 and my machine has been running Vista just fine since Aug and now this.
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