Do you two (I use this term loosely as you both seem to operate with the same brain) work for sony because seriousily you both are a bit psycho over this machine...and that lineup is pathetic there is nothing that great on the sony ps3 that makes it worth the extra 200 dollars compared to the xbox360 or the extra 250 compared to the wii.

Another thing the fact it is a blu ray player is worse because as everyone knows who owned a ps2 using said machine consistently as a dvd player will burn it out that much quicker. disk read errors anyone?

It's universally accepted that the Blu-Ray player in the PS3 outclasses anything out there at present, aside perhaps fromt he $1400 Pionner Blu-Ray player.

Have you checked out the PS3 line-up recently, in addition to the US launch titles, there are another 30 titles for the EU launch, liek Motorstorm, Oblvion, Genji and stacks of other great games.

Seem the Microsoft fanboys ar enot happy at the moment. Still never mind, there is a Black Xbox360 Elite out soon, if you really want to buy a PS3 wannabe...

again you missed the point not too shocking really...the fact that sony games play on the same player whereas the xbox and I believe the wii is getting the ability to play dvds eventually have seperate units which makes more sense.

The reason being is Sony is notorious for using cheap parts, look at the playstation 1 (anyone remember a fix was to flip it over and it would continue playing?)

playstation 2 had a KNOWN issue with the laser and depending who you spoke with at Sony would they admit it. They were even up for a class action lawsuit because of it. If you received disk read errors meaning it would play some games or maybe wouldn't play games with blue backs or maybe would only play some dvds or none at all they were required to fix it provided you didn't mod it.

Or how about screwing everyone that bought final fantasy 11 and removing the hdd on the newer model?

Fanboy? I spoke of BOTH systems...Is sony giving you a free ps3 for all the promoting you are doing?

PS2 has incredably low failure rates. The laser issue affected units produced in 2000 and 2001, and then only some. My 2000 launch unit still runs flawlessly (until I sold it last month). There are over 120,000,000 PS2's out there, the laser issue is likely to have affected less than a million (0.8%).

I don't know how you figure Sony being notorious for using cheap parts, as the PS3 also seems pretty robust, with only a sprinkling of reported issues. IF you want to talk about failure reates, lets look at the Xbox 360 failure rates that are between 30% - 50% when looking at real world stats (despite Microsofts lies than they are between 3 and 5%)..

If you want to talk about KNOWN issues. XBox 360 has a know issue, where it gets too hot, and the lead-free solder seperates from the BGA device, and you have to resolder it yourself using a hot air gun...

http://www.eurasia.nu/wi...60FixError0102HotAirGun

Strange...I know about 30 people that have 360's without a single failure...me and a few friends got the launch batch too. How come we don't have 15 failed xboxes?

Don't everything Sony fanboys say. Oh wait, you are a sony fanboy, nevermind.

I think 600 owners here would disagree with you, as over 300 of them are on at least their 2nd console..

http/www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=476052

In addition, EA Games also has data to suggest failure rate is between 30% and 50%

http://biz.gamedaily.com...ustry/feature/?id=13902

"GameDaily BIZ has received tons of reader e-mail on the subject, with many consumers complaining that they're already on their 2nd or 3rd Xbox 360. In addition, last month an EA employee claimed that the failure rate of Xbox 360 consoles at his studio was in the range of 30 to 50 percent"

You're going to disagree with me that 30 of my friends xboxes didn't break? Ok...that's weird, not sure how you'll do that, but ok.

Also...I don't know why people have a hard time understanding this concept...but you do realize, that people tend to complain about problems on forums and not complain about everything working right? How many times do you go on a forum and say "hey, everything is working!"? And how many pissed off people are going on forums and saying "this broke"? Probably the majority of people posting on forums are posting because something is wrong.

I don't remember ever going on my cars forums and posting "hey guess what guys, my car is running great!"...but I have posted on there when I've had problems, and so did the majority of the posters there. Does that mean the car has a 50% failure rate? By your logic, it does.

This is a general owners forum for people to discuss games, it's a fair cut of people with 360's

It's typical that you would try to play down the 360's failures. I just your 360 does not fail 12 months and 1 day afer purchase, as Microsoft will dump you like hot bricks.. (and your imaginary 29 friends).

"I just your 360 does not fail 12 months and 1 day afer purchase, as Microsoft will dump you like hot bricks."

http://www.hookedonphonics.com/

It's funny...pretty much every company charges me to fix things after warranty...yet, you bash MS for it. But hey, enjoy your $600 PS3 with your one halfway decent game...maybe someday in the future when the PS3 is actually worthwhile (and cheaper)...I'll possibly get one, but I just don't see it happening any time soon.

Looks like a sweet European launch...

http://www.gamesindustry...tent_page.php?aid=23700

The FACTS: (not the nonsense posted here)

BC PS1 and PS2
Total Games: 5,021
Total games working: 2,826 (56.29% of all games)
No known issues: 1792 (63.41% of working games)
Minor issues: 473 (16.74% of working games)
Noticeable issues: 561 (19.85% of working games)

There you have it, nearly 1,800 PERFECTLY working PS1 and PS2 games, or 2,800 games that work perfectly with with slight issues.

Makes the 360's list of 290 titles after a year look slightly pathetic. Expect the PS3 list to add the missing major titles like GT4 and SSX in the coming months...

Except the 360 was never intended to be fully backwards compatible. I suppose it makes for a nice strawman argument though, especially since Sony fans have so little else to brag about.

"Expect the PS3 list to add the missing major titles like GT4 and SSX in the coming months..."

Don't be so sure:

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3158104

The major titles missing from the list will be fixed for sure, Sony have already demonstrated they are not just talk, by having 2,826 PS1 and PS2 games working (2,500 more than the 360 list..). I have no doubt the big titles will be added to the list before software eumlation hits US and Asia. After that, things will quieten down...

So now you are calling Sony liars and praising them at the same time, or maybe you didn't even read the link I gave you. Sony says they are happy with the current bc rate and that they are not going to work on improving it. Why are you pretending to be DaveBG by the way? Can't you think of your own name? You're not fooling anyone.

A slightly late reply, but I too have analyzed the BC page by sony in somewhat more detail than post, filtering out unique titles, etc:

http://faq.eu.playstation.com/bc/bcGames.htm:

PS1 Stats:
1 star rated: 111
2 star rated: 199
3 star rated: 654

963 uniquely titled games / 997 listed games

PS2 Stats:
1 star rated: 295
2 star rated: 193
3 star rated: 798

1237 uniquely titled games / 1782 listed games

PS1 + PS2 Overall Compat Stats:
1 star rated: 406
2 star rated: 392
3 star rated: 1452

2200 uniquely titled games / 2779 listed games

Any of the star ratings which do not magic precisely are due to some games which do not have a unique title having two different ratings under different game IDs.

We are in the process of changing the figure to the accepted 1,700 number as being reported by most outlets. The mistake was exactly that, and much for the reason reader "Banquo" surmised.

However, in the interest of balance, we are going to note that the number of games working without any issues is far less, and there are many doubles in the list for whatever reason.

Thanks for reading, and sorry for the error.

As much as it pains me to side with the Sony fanatics, the author of this article is wrong. He probably made the same mistake that I did at first and only counted the first page of each letter, because that's all I thought there was. At the bottom of the list there is a "Next" link which I thought went to the next letter. That's generally how this type of thing works. Instead it goes to another page A's or whatever letter you happen to be on. It should be more clear in my opinion, saying "A's Continued" for example, but clearly there are far more than 200 titles even without counting the many repeated games. This Betanews article needs to be corrected.

So they are counting on us to buy a crippled PS3 that is already horribly overpriced?

Excuse me, say again?

It plays Blu-Ray movies so it's a great value. The next generation doesn't start until they say so. Ridge Racer!

What's crippled? What's overpriced?

Misconception #1

The EU PS3 is not crippled, for playing PS3 games it's identical to all the other PS3's, for PS2 the BC is lower(72% vs 92%) but image quality is better due to HD upscaling on the software BC emulation.

Misconception #2

Price, Europe has some of the highest tax rates in the world. Scandanavia it's 25%, UK 17.5% If you compare the pre-tax US console price ($599) to the UK pre-tax price (£360), they are very close.

People are stupid, they fail to understand that prices in the US are generally quoted excluding tax (as it varies from state to state), but in Europe prices are quoted including taxes.

You cannot deny that the EU PS3 is technically inferior to the other versions, and saying the price is that much higher because they included sales tax in the price is ridiculous.

I think comparing like for like it the only way to compare.

Saying the console costs $599 in the US and £425 in the UK is totally flawed, due the the tax differences. It's a valid thing to calculate the pre-tax prices.

Even excluding the taxes the European version is still more expensive, and it has had the PS2 chips yanked out of it so it's not even as good. You've convinced me, that's a great value! I'm sure they'll be lining up down the street to buy it.

If you want to play PS2 games buy a PS2, it plays 100% of them.
I keep thinking the same thing. Until the PS3 has a large enough library exclusive to it, there is not really a compelling reason to drop that kinda money on it.

Exactly.

Hmm yeah right okay. Because of course Sony never created the expectation that the PS3 would be backwards compatible with PS2 by having originally made the PS2 backwards compatible with PS1 - did it?

When you set a precedant you create expectations.

Additionally the European version of PS3 is undeniably inferior to the already released versions. Cheap emulation will never be equivilant to the cheap chips used. More inferior than inferior essentially.

All this bickering over how many PS2 titles work on the PS3...WHO CARES? It's still an overpriced piece of **** and it's going to have miserable sales in Europe just like everywhere else, worse probably. If you want to play PS2 games buy a PS2, it plays 100% of them.

In other news it looks like Joey Deacon is our new resident Sony cheerleader. I kind of miss Mark, at least the nonsense he posted was funny. This guy is just obnoxious.

I honestly thought after how well the PS2 performed that Sony would be smart enough to use the same tactics for PS3. They didn't, they tried cutting corners, they got booted. I was very loyal to Sony products such as CD players, consoles, and televisions but I think they just got overly c***y and removing hardware PS2/PS1 support from EU is just a kick in the teeth. Granted I'm in the US, but still, Samsung and Nintendo all the way!

You can still get an Xbox 360 for $200 cheaper than the PS3 and play the same games you would have missed on the PS3.

Regarding the compatibility number and PS3 games, the figure does seem misreported. However, no-one seems to be mentioning that some of the games listed on their website don't have the three start rating. Further, the IGN article linked to regarding the 72%? Do any of you read articles before posting up the moment your see an input box?

http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/774/774133p1.html

Here's the most important paragraph regarding it

"Even then, some of the games that are compatible may not run 100% properly. For example, according to Sony, games such as Kingdom Hearts and Twisted Metal Black run with "noticeable issues", although it's not currently known what the problems might be. However, Sony does offer advice to reduce the potential problems, by disconnecting non-essential USB peripherals, avoiding the use of 60Hz mode, skipping optional FMV sequences and limiting the number of non-network players to seven. "

If I made a PS2 emulator which could run that many games, but a number of them running with noticeable issues, I can still boast that it works with 72% of games in headlines. Why? Because it isn't saying how -well- it works.

It's called journalism. They use a catchy headline and report the real statistics later, m'kay?

"noticeable issues" = "works with"?

Marketing speak really has taken over the language.

Not to mention how they pad their list with repeated titles.

2002 FIFA WORLD CUP
2002 FIFA WORLD CUP
2002 FIFA WORLD CUP
2002 FIFA WORLD CUP
2002 FIFA WORLD CUP
2002 FIFA WORLD CUP

Look, there's six games right there!

LOL that is awesome. Just looking at the first page under F

SCES-53950 F1 06 ***
SLES-50423 F1 2001 *
SLES-50431 F1 2001 *
SLES-50874 F1 2002 ***
SLES-50875 F1 2002 ***
SLES-51584 F1 CAREER CHALLENGE ***
SLES-50017 F1 CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON 2000 ***
SLES-50046 F1 RACING CHAMPIONSHIP ***
SLES-50047 F1 RACING CHAMPIONSHIP ***
SCES-51592 F1-2003 ***
SCES-52042 F1-2004 *
SLES-53539 FAHRENHEIT ***
SLES-53540 FAHRENHEIT ***
SLES-51525 FALLOUT: BROTHERHOOD OF STEEL *
SLES-51526 FALLOUT: BROTHERHOOD OF STEEL *
SLES-52060 FAME ACADEMY *
SLES-54126 FAMILY GUY ***
SLES-54394 FAMILY GUY ***
SLES-53143 FANTASTIC FOUR ***
SLES-53145 FANTASTIC FOUR ***

20 titles (as advertised)...but 13 unique titles (not advertised)...with 4 titles having "noticeable" issues (not advertised). That is sony marketing at it's best right there.

Indeed it has (and assuming it wasn't sarcasm, or if it was) the posts below somewhat speak for themselves too. This is all marketing. If something loads, and is vaguely playable, it is probably being counted as 'working'. They're not saying it's flawless. Now if they said x games running with 100% perfect emulation or the sorts, that'd be a bit more libelous.

Where'd Joey/Dave go?

He only replies to post he can argue...anything that he can't argue he usually just ignores and pretends it never happened.

I have never bought a games console because with the exception of car racing games, I'm just not interested in the rest. That is I would never have bought a games console until the Wii was released and now I want one!

The above story is just another reason why I wouldn't buy your average games console like a PS2 or PS3 or xBox wharever - rip-off, rip-off, rip-off! Spend literally hundreds of pounds/dollars on games and then when the next generation console is released all your games are redundant and you have to go out and replace them. Disgusting!

OK, so the predictable FUD and misinformation has started...

"A website listing games that would work currently include about 200 or so titles"

What a total load of nonsense....

There are in fact 1782 of 2451 PS2 titles that will work just fine... Hardly 200 or so..

How much are Microsoft paying you guys? I would expect more FUD in the coming days, as the Microsoft supporters start cicrling the wagons..

That's an official Sony website you moron. Are you saying that Sony is spreading FUD about themselves? This is about the European model PS3 in which the PS2 chips have been removed. Try reading before you come here spouting your fanboy BS.

You seem to be the moron here, as the list is regarding the European PS3, which has the PS2 chip removed, and STILL supports over 1700 PS2 titles, and 1000 or so PS1 titles.

So please explain where the 200 titles comment comes from? The official Sony site lists 1700 titles.... Betanews made that bit up it seems..

I suggest you actually look at the linked site, and see the 1700 PS2 titles supported in the EU PS3 before you make any more embarrassing comments that make you look a moron.

For an ACCURATE story on PS3 EU backwards compatability, look here: http://www.engadget.com/...wards-compatiblity-list/

but out of the 1,782 games that are playable on the uk ps3 how many of those have issues...at least two of them do and it seems anything with fmv sequences which would take pretty much all of squaresofts games...and a majority of role playing games

Microsoft never claimed they would have 100% backwards compatibility nor did they take out parts for the eu launch...so your whole "they only have 290 games working" doesn't work because everyone was advised ahead of time and wasn't edited later to save a buck.

(Update)
I am starting to wonder if that 200 means they will work 100% because if you look on that site there is a lot of games with one or 2 boxes which indicates problems playing said game so it could be very likely only 200 games will fully work whereas 1782 will work but not at 100% hence the claim of 200 games.

I just counted, and not including the many titles that are repeated up to six times I counted 285 working PS2 titles. Even counting the titles that are repeated it comes nowhere near 1700. Either you never learned how to count or you're just a liar.

I assume all these are liars also...

http://www.cellphones.en...wards-compatiblity-list/

http://arstechnica.com/j...ds-compatibly-site-live

http://games.slashdot.or...pl?sid=07/03/20/1414230

Go through the list and eliminate the many multiple entries of the same games, and then get a count.

Also try eliminating the ones that have "noticeable" issues.

It's not gonna be 200 thou...

hahaha...

and it not even the REAL Dev3lop3....

I love how all the hardcore Sony fanboys either a) avoid posting on negative articles like it's the plague, b) try to completely discredit the article and call it inaccurate or flat our wrong (with links to obviously Sony biased sites!), c) spin the negative into something positive for Sony (also with links!). Usually c) is the most entertaining. So where are you fanboys? We need some entertainment.

If you must, people don't reply, as this news item is so inaccure, it's not worth even responding to...

It's not 200 titles, it's 1782 titles, and that's just PS2 titles, if you want to include PS1 titles also, the tally of Backwards Compatable titles comes to 5,021

Slightly puts that 290 Xbox games that the 360 does in the shadow somewhat....

It must feel good to be hosed again by Sony.

It must feel good being lied to...

Don't believe everything you read on the obviously Microsoft sponsored Betanews..

Ok, you must be new here if you really think this site is Pro-MS. Of course you must be an idiot to support sony so I guess that explains that.

What other explaination is there aside from backhanders, that a site can confuse 200 PS2 titles (lie) with 1,700 PS2 titles....

Don't you find it interesting that Betanews is the ONLY site on the net reporting 200 titles.. Everyone else is reporting the correct figures...

Everyone else? Show me one link that says the EU version supports 1700 titles. You fanboys are all the same, arrogant and full of crap.

Just one?

http://arstechnica.com/j...ds-compatibly-site-live

"Sony Computer Entertainment of Europe has released the backwards compatibility list for the European PS3 with a grand total of 1,782 compatible titles."

I can give about 10 if I can be bothered..

BS, there are NOT 1700 games on that list.

Live in denial as long as you wish,,

Shut up troll, and quit pretending to be DaveBG.

Seems the article has been updated to say 1700 titles. (although it still fails to mention over 1,000 more PS1 titles).

Dev3Iop3 is starting to look like a fanboy who believes everything he reads here..

It's called "Admitting to a mistake", something that you probably know nothing about since you are obviously perfect and never make any.

"Dev3Iop3 is starting to look like a fanboy..."

It's funny how the biggest fanboi's will call everyone else a fanboy, like there not one.

Kind of like how how they say the "xbox" faboys read things off of forums and take it for the "holy grail", when there the ones that infact that do it (aka http/www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=476052 posted multiple times)

Joey, Steve and once roaming Mark are all hypocrites.

I'm wondering too if you guys work for Sony or if your enjoying your free PS3, Sony TV and Sony Viao computer.

Where's Dave in his little Sony logo cheerleader outfit and pom poms defending the Evil Empire?

He uses the word FUD (I have no idea what little web ****s abbreviations mean) alot but I will refer to him as PAB from now on.

DaveBG, the BG stands for Blu-ray Group. Paid shill without a doubt.

He's probably trying to think of ways to spin this into good news. Probably something to the effect like, "But it's 720p!!!!1!!!!one!!!!!!".

I'm not sure if this article is referring to consoles sold only in Europe or worldwide. The Xbox360 broke the 10 million mark globally, so that would put the PS3 about 8 million behind, not 4 million as the article states.

Okay i've been doing very avid research on this and to clear things up cause this article is 100% wrong the entire way.

SONY HAS ANNOUNCED 72% or Over 1700 GAMES ON THE PS2 TO BE PLAYED ON THE PS3

Also,

PS3- 2+ million units in USA and Japan
Wii- 5+ million units
360- 9.5+ million units

And the ratio for Blu-ray to HD DVD sales is 3:1.

The EU version is not the US version. Or are you saying Sony's own compatibility site is wrong? :P

Did you even read the article? It explains it quite clearly in the very first paragraph. Good grief...

Indeedm your post is accurate, this news item is total fiction, and part of the predictable FUD campaign in preparation for the EU launch.

Website ©2007 Sony Computer Entertainment Europe.

All of your posts have been just as inaccurate as the one you responded to. You don't seem to get it through your thick skull that the Europe PS3 (which ONLY uses software emulation and NOT PS2 hardware for backwards compatibility) supports approximately 200 PS2 and PS One titles while the USA PS3 supports nearly every PS2 and PS One title ever released.

Actually you don't seem to get it. The linked article refers to the European PS3 supporting 1,784 PS2 titles and over 1,000 PS1 titles in software emulation mode. The US hardware based PS2 emualtion supports more than this...

Jeez, are all Americans as thick as you? Actually they must be, they voted Bush in for a 2nd term.... Nuff Said...

Well done, you can copy and paste..

The fact that this is the European PS3 website has never been in question, nor has the 1,700 titles listed.. (except for the editor here, who even now has not posted a retraction)

What is wrong with you people. Don't they teach you how to count in schools?

There are not 1784 individual PS2 titles on that list. Different skus are not different titles. Just like Sony you are a misleading liar. By the way stupid, his name is DaveBG. Try a little harder next time.

You suck at trolling fake DaveBG

Just another reason why one should spend money on something else. I dont even understand how or why this version is less compatible... not that it really matters.

The first PS3s had chips from the PS2 in them, notably the "Emotion Engine". They removed these chips from the European version to supposedly save money.

So, how much is the actual cost difference between the 2 variations. And I am still a bit confused if they mean that a chip with embedded firmware is different, or if the chip was replaced by software emulation...Whatever..

I would be interested to know what the actual cost savings are for Sony.

It is hard to imagine a more flawed market introduction than what Sony has delivered.

Oh how the mighty have fallen.

On the other hand, they may figure that if the French can deal with warm Coke and eschew the concept of refrigeration, that they probably won't notice this either. ;-) ;-)

"So, how much is the actual cost difference between the 2 variations. And I am still a bit confused if they mean that a chip with embedded firmware is different, or if the chip was replaced by software emulation...Whatever.."

I doubt it's much; it's more likely the ludicrous profit they are making on the European ones over the American ones.

Four months into their respective lifespans, Sony's PS3 is 800,000 units behind Nintendo in the United States, but nearly 4 million units behind worldwide.

http://www.vgcharts.org/

*Groan*

No Gran Turismo 4 compatibility?
And Gran Turismo 3 & 4 have issues?

What a great launch it's going to have in Europe (especially the UK, with the over inflated price tag).

Considering Sony themselves make the Gran Turismo series, that's pretty bad.

And this is a person who would quite like to own a PS3, just not a European version.

I'm quite pleased Lego Star Wars is compatible though.

/saddo

"Sony is counting on a good launch to help it catch up to market leader Xbox 360 and Nintendo's Wii."

They're going to be disappointed then, not that they would ever admit it. The arrogant bas****s will come up with some more lies telling us all how great the PS3 is doing and how they've won the console war. I hope they go down in flames.

Yeah, Sony is a bad, bad company. Hopefully Bluray will die off soon as well, seeing as how the PS3 is the top selling Blueray player.

What a lame fanboy remark; the PS3 being the top selling Blu-Ray player is not something to be bragging about considering it's selling like crap and both HD formats combined are only a tiny fraction of the market. You're so blinded by Sony loyalism you don't even see how stupid that was.

Considering HD-DVD is now outselling Blueray players globally, being a top-selling Blueray player might be a bit like being the best selling Betamax deck.

It's actually not selling like crap at all. Thats fanboy talk.

PS3 is only available in 1/3 of the global market at present, and has still sold 2.1 million units.

WII and 360 are available globally. PS3 launches globally tommorrow.. Condsidering these facts, expect that gap to close VERY quickly...

February sales for the US (NOT worldwide)

Wii: 335,000
360: 228,000
PS3: 127,000

The Wii is also outselling the PS3 in Japan, Sony's most loyal market.
Again these are not global sales, they are by region.