microsoft creates the problem, microsoft's internet explorer integrated with microsoft windows, then there's so much reaction that some people find ways to remove not only msie, but other unwanted parts of windows too. So i have to thank ms for what they did to msie. otherwise there'd be no xplite, 2000lite, etc. thank you microsoft. might still have been firefox, but there's also strong reaction against msie from the opera browser users. i use msie when I have to. love the stuff plug! that opens hotmail from msn messenger with the default browser which can be opera or firefox. if ms pushes a bit more id love to see the reaction. better than a boxing match.

I try to use Firefox only, but try to post a reply on e.g. IMDB - no way. IE works fine. Can't get tickets for my favourite cinema with FF - asked the owner - optimised for IE. A lot of other sites I visit often...
Hope that enough people complain, right now thanks to the guy who made Launchy (open link in IE).

It is a cycle, IE is full of exploits because it well known, FF will probably have the same thing happen if and when it becomes main stream. FF is coming, others are going to develop features FF has. Right now ... I love FF, it is fast, slick, easy to use, shopping for and creating extensions is fun. Hell isn't surfing supposed to be fun? Fun/Security ... I'm FF but looking forward to IE7b

I really hope Firefox sticks around. If MS releases IE7 like it's supposed to in the next few months it may be all over. If IE7 has tabbed browsing and can better block ads and flash based ads It will be all over for Firefox.

Firefox needs to get a deal with a vendor like Gateway or Dell to get it preinstalled and put on the desktop with IE.

"If IE7 has tabbed browsing and can better block ads and flash based ads It will be all over for Firefox."

It may reduce the bleeding to Firefox, but unless IE7 fixes the Active X issues that make IE insecure, Firefox will still be a safer browser. Features are not the only reason to switch. Security and speed (Firefox with tweaks is faster) are at least as important.

I doubt that IE7 will be compatiable with WINDOWS 98
MS has no desire to keep the golden oldies around.

As soon as Firefox gets enough users watch the vunerabilites it will have. When it's more fun to exploit the security holes.

The security issues are vastly overhyped. So is the ActiveX stuff. Java is just as insecure as ActiveX and the sandbox is NO protection. In my job I have to hit a lot of questionable sites. As any sane person does these days, I have AV and anti-malware protection (you need those with Firefox too - that's not subjec to debate). I haven't had ONE ActiveX explot. I have been hit with DOZENS of Java exploits (I run Sun's Java engine).

You wanna site security as a reason to not run IE?

Uh uh - that can be mitigated.

You wanna site speed?

Un uh - it's faster than Firefox in my experience.

You wanna site alternate choice?

Ok, I'll buy that - there's a lot of anti-MS sentiment out there, a lot of trendy bashing and even s few rational reasons, when all is said and done.

You wanna site "the newer rendering engine"?

Yes Firefox does have one but the relevance of that is questionable at best (I can see millions of sites every day that make use of those new features and standards - oh yes, I can since they're mainstream now - NOT).

In short, the only advantages Firefox really has are tabbed browsing, its extensions (many of which are half-baked and of dubious quality) and religion. Religion (right or wrong - and generally wrong) has always been a force to reckon with. So has usability, in this case the tabbed browsing.

However speed and security don't qualify as advantages for Firefox.

You are confused.

I believe you are talking about javascript, which has nothing to do with java, exploits. There are tons of javascript exploits, not so many java ones, and those have been patched for about 6 months now.

FF allows granular control over javascript, but Microsoft doesn't allow granular control over turning "features" of it's implementation of javascript off.

So many "I love IE", "I hate IE", comments.
Whether you love or hate it its good to have an alternative regardless. Those who use and love IE and argue its speed and security are great then are content and happy enough to use it. But even that being the case, why not have the option to go another way. Not saying MS is good or bad, but why should everything on a PC be an MS product. Firefox/Mozilla/Opera are examples of great alternatives. And for those that argue the IE designed web pages point, Maxthon and Avant are more examples of great alternatives even if they use IE cores.
A good firewall and AV sw should be run on any machine regardless of browser, but lets be thankful for alternatives that do the job just as well as MS. Otherwise everyone would have the same PC setup with fonts and colours being the only alternative.

"Otherwise everyone would have the same PC setup with fonts and colours being the only alternative"

Oh, you mean we'd be running Macs. :) :) :)

"I believe you are talking about javascript"

Point.

I stand corrected.

However, FF is no more immune to malware than IE or any other browser is. A good AV and malware defense are still mandatory. FF is no magic bullet.

no, but they still want to make money off sales of 98. :)

only way I will upgrade to a new IE is if they remove the windows shell integration. I love the benefit of not crashing my entire desktop if my web browser crashes on a lame website. go firefox!

In response to 'roj' - doing a lot of firefox-bashing: I find some comments downright UNTRUE.

Most IMP: "I find IE faster in my experience."

I question what version of IE, FF and what OS you are using.

I agree with the statement that firefox is no magic bullet, so I disabled java in it long ago. Javascript is restricted to minimal things - closing, lowering and resizing windows is disabled. Software installation by internet sites is also disabled, as is flash/shockwave player.( I never install it if i can).

If you take all these measures+disable activeX, I believe both browsers are more or less secure, but I completely disagree about the speed. IE is slow. compared. to. firefox. mozilla. or . opera.

Seems to me we've heard all these arguments about switching browsers before...

All the die-hard IE users are making the same noise the die hard Netscape users were making during the last "browser war".

Refusal to admit the product they prefer has become dated and inferior, utterly in denial.

I gave up on using the trendy product, and use the product that does the best job, with the least fuss or concern - right now, that product is Firefox. If IE7 is better, I'll use it instead...

Refusal to admit the product they prefer has become dated and inferior, utterly in denial.

The only denial I see is the refusal to see that the emperor's new clothes aren't relevant.

There's nothing wrong with being dated if It Works. There's an old sayin in the biz:

"If it works, don't mess with it."

If and when the new stuff becomes mainstream and actually has a use, I'm sure those users you're sneering at will switch. Until then, there's no real tangible reason to do so, based on *your* oft-stated criteria. You say you "gave up on using the trendy product, and use the product that does the best job, with the least fuss or concern - right now, that product is Firefox".

You forgot to add the words "for me". That's the only context in which your statement becomes relevant.

For most of us, that product you describe remains IE or one of its derivatives.

you simply prove my point.

Netscape users made the same argument against IE as IE users are using against Firefox right now.

IE was the better product at the time, for windows users, but Netscape users were steadfast, and would just as soon eat their own shoes as admit IE was better... many of those Netscape users are the ones switching back now, since they always preferred the NS based product, but were left with no chice but to change after MS set out to crush Netscape, leaving it a shell.

Firefox is the better product now, but diehard IE users would just as soon admit that they were psycho killers as admit the alternative might be the better product. It doesn't matter if it is or not, they'd never do it.

People who just want the best tool? They're switching, and raving about an amazing product.

thanks :)

While I certainly do appreciate the thanks, for me to have proved your point, there would actually have had to be a valid one in the first place. Unfortunately, such was not the case in this instance.

I have to say though that you sure take a lot upon yourself deciding what's for the good of all. It must be a very heavy responsibility. You've gone up and down this road with the "FF is God" rhetoric a time or ten now and are yet to have a rest stop. While I can certainly appreciate your fandom for a piece of software that you like (I tend to get excited about music players), do have the intelligence to realise that not all share your zeal, needs or unique perception of "what is best for all", be it valid or otherwise.

'nuff said.

Who said Firefox is god?

certainly not me.

Firefox is currently the better product. That could very well change, depending on the development of exploits for it, the reaction of the Moz. Organization to exploits, and where they take their development path in the future.

IE could be a better product if MS actually cared enough about it's customers to update it, but they've demonstrated time and time again that they just don't care... if it weren't for FF, this miraculous IE 7 update, and MS admitting IE is a security mishap even in the SP2 format would never have happened.

Even still, it's a marketing ploy - upgrade to XP SP2 or be vulnerable (even after the next update). nice.

You don't even have to have IE "running" to be exploited, so if you're not running XP, MS is happy to leave you at risk.

Nice practise to defend as superior and "better" - and the best part is, they don't accept any responsibility for the defects in their products, nor do they feel any need to fix these issues in a timely fashion.

MS gets a solid D- for customer service practices and product quality... which is a step up from last year.

...it's all been done before.

Nice tip of the hat by MS too. Hopefully it will be accepted with grace.