200 million is impressive! I was just on spreadfirefox.com and there's a link to a new site, thefoxtales.com. Looks pretty cool, you can look at the Firefox timeline and share stories and stuff.

PC_Tool
"Which leads to the #1 reason most Firefox users *love* firefox. Nothing is built in but basic browsing capabilies. Want anything else? Throw up the extension and you're good to go. The problem with built-ins, is that it's there whether you use it or not."

quarky42
"I'll take a responsive, responsible, transparent, and caring group of programmers that resolve issues in a timely manner over a semi-commercial set of programmers that bow down to some unknown/hidden rule set of what issues they'll work on and when they will fix things."

You two nailed it. For the ones that a lot of you call fanboys it's not about the download numbers, the bugs that anyone browser has, or even the speed. It's about the fact that you are not stuck with unwanted features and the fact that you can add pretty much any feature you would want. It's also about the fact that Mozilla fixes flaws faster than anyone else. They down't wait 2 or 3 versions to fix a problem like Opera. They don't stand up and say we have the patch but aren't going to release it until our next patch day....unless someone gets hacked......unlike Microsoft.

Sure, numbers of vulnerabilities is one way to compare browsers. Start comparing install bases and attack footprint. Perhaps the reason Opera has so few vulnerabilities is that not as many people are taking the time to find them.

Better yet, realize that it doesn't matter how many vulnerabilities there are as no software product is EVER perfect, but check out which browsers have the best track record of fixing flaws.

I've reported bugs for Firefox in their Bugzilla tracking database. The bugs have been fixed in the next release. I've reported bugs in Opera that took 2 whole versions for them to finally work on.

I'll take a responsive, responsible, transparent, and caring group of programmers that resolve issues in a timely manner over a semi-commercial set of programmers that bow down to some unknown/hidden rule set of what issues they'll work on and when they will fix things.

With that being said, I still highly recommend Opera to people that for some reason don't want Firefox... As long as they are using something more secure than IE, I'm happy and so are they. I also give props to Opera for finally getting rid of the banners.

You guys whine because downloads is not equal to # of installs and then you'd b**** if Firefox anonymously reported each and every installation back to a server for the sole purpose of counting the number of installations. Any estimate is better than no estimate at all.

I'm glad people are starting to wake up and use ANYTHING besides Internet Exploder. Opera, Firefox, Mozilla, SeaMonkey, Safari, or what ever you want that isn't IE. Microshaft has had their chance and they showed that when it comes to browsers they really don't care at all. They start to lose market share and then they finally decide to put in features that Firefox and others have had for YEARS. Pathetic. Too little, too late.

For those newbs that say they'll never install Firefox, do you even have a clue as to why you feel that way? Mozilla's track record of fixing known issues is much better than Microshaft's. So what's your deal? Go ahead use an insecure browser that is going to get owned by a malicious website and wonder why your system keeps getting taken over by spyware and crap.

Competition = Good.

There, summed that up for ya. ;)

Go Firefox Go !!

As a firefox fan, I question the marketing leadership at mozilla.

Firefox day?
Firefox fan videos?
"Download" counts that have absolutely no relevance to reality?
Silly contests?

They need a better direction.

Yeah. Why should they be proud? All they did was break a years-long choke hold on the browser-market held by IE...

Again... *only* browser to make a significant dent in IE's market share.

That alone is cause for celebration. (By any fan of competition, regardless of browser preference)

http://celtickane.com/projects/jsspeed.php :-
"Well, the conclusion is quite clear: Opera beat the s*** out of everything else. It's more than 3.5 times faster than all of the other competing browsers. Your mileage may vary based on your machine and version of browser"
----------------------------------------------
Internet explorer :- 105 advisories ,21 un-patched.
FF :- 34 advisories,3 un-patched.
Opera 8.5 :- 15 advisories,0 un-patched.
Opera 9 :- 0 advisories.

let the flaming begin ! ;)

What good does it do if I can't see the page properly, and many sites don't work?

Opera sits a distant third on my system for use.

well neptune plugin works for me.

Internet Explorer: released *ages* ago. Used by millions (probably billions)

Firefox: released 1 year and 9 months ago. Used by millions

Opera 8.5: released a little over a year ago (Set 20, 2005). Used by thousands.

Opera 9.0: released ~3 months ago. Used by hundreds.

See a trend here? The longer they are out, the more users they have, the more vulnerabilities will be found.

Funny that.

How many vulnerabilities had Securina found 3 months after Firefox's release, eh? Or hell, for that matter, after IE6's release?

"Opera 8.5: released a little over a year ago (Set 20, 2005). Used by thousands."
"Opera 9.0: released ~3 months ago. Used by hundreds."

Really ?

So as FF is going to get older and more ppl will use it and it will face the problem ie6 is facing then are you going to dump FF the same way we all dumped ie6 ?.

Still Opera is lot more safe for me or anybody right now in comparison to Firefox or IE6.

So speed does not mater nor does security or the standards.

Secunia found 3 vulnerability for the first three months of FF's release (and at that point of time user base was quite low too).

Flame on ! ;).

lmao..

I ain't the onle flaming. This is a Firefox topic. That makes *you* the hot and bothered one. ;)

As for sticking with Opera, go for it. More power to ya, and I hope, for your sake you're right. Because when reality hits, it's gonna hit hard. (Though I doubt Opera will *ever* see the numbers in terms of usage that would make it at *all* comparable to Firefox or IE.)

I know you ain't flaming , i was expecting ppl to get angry and that is the kind of beta news i like ;)

And as far as reality is concerned, believe me if anybody asks me which browser to choose my advice to most ppl is to go for firefox. So reality does not affect me that much. For those people who are used to IE it is very easy to migrate over to FF and i think it is the biggest reason for ff's success. I hope someday ppl at opera will come up with a browser with a different name and UI for average joe.

I just post stuff like that for fun.
for reactions like that :- "Because when reality hits, it's gonna hit hard."

Oh ewww....

I tried Neptune *once* a month ago. That. Was. Horrible.

Crap. I will not install this on my PC ever and sugest all my friends to not do so also :)

It is nice for Linux anyways :) (if you do not know how to run IE under Linux)

troll

Is there a reason why you won't install Firefox? You when you say stupid s*** like this you really should share you reasoning...

Firefox is a great browser and much more stable than IE. I use it most of the time with one exception. Do I use it in multimedia applications? No, because the rendering engine from Firefox was inherited from Netscape and nobody at Mozilla bothered to even upgrade the code. What I’m referring at is that when you play large movies in Quicktime, Flash, or Shockwave, the sampling rate is very buggy.

Most studios that post animations on the web don’t care much about playback in Firefox because the problem hasn’t been fixed for years. Since I work for a studio, we test animations in Opera and IE. Opera is another story because it has other kind bugs (it’s not DHTML compliant).

Would I recommend Firefox? Yes, but only with a backup browser.

works fine for me with the k-lite mega. I can't block elements of a page as well in IE, so the idea of watching a movie online with banner ads flashing left and right around a tiny window is quite unappealing.

I personally don't like banner ads on movies. But if you exclude those particular web sites, then you'll see the difference in rendering engines.

I guess some people know when they see a good thing.

While a lot of these downlaods could simply be compatibility tests, trials, or downloads that were uninstalled after a week, 200 million is still not a small number. The least we can do is congratulate the Firefox team for putting up some real competition against Microsoft Internet Explorer. I'm not going to get into any of the arguments that are festering below me, as they are frivilous in the end. Use the browser that best suits you. It's not a religion; you don't have to convince others to use one or the other. The fact of the matter is that there is an alternative browser on the browser market today that offers up a nice change.

I'll never understand the backlash against Firefox. I've had five to six browsers installed for the last two and half years, but experience always pulls me back to Firefox. It's fast, it's extensible, it's at least as secure as anything else. What's the problem?

The question is how many are really using it? Hmmmm
Not 200 million I'm pretty sure.

as stated multiple times in this thread:

the 200mil is from mozilla sites *only*. It does *not* account for any of the other sites out there distributing the browser.

While the numbers above obviously do not = users, add to it the numbers from all of the other sites it has been downloaded from, and you just might.

It could be more than 200mil, it could be less.

Firefox is da s**t! I remember, years ago when it was still called "Firebird" I was telling myself what a cool browser it is and screw Microsoft's IE...but really it was far from being as solid as IE...that was in 2001-2002. Today, I have recently realized I am still using Firefox after all those years but not to be cool anymore and pretend I'm some anti-conformist-anti-Microsoft geek but it has actually gone being a better browser than IE in every angles possible; speed, security, flexibility, compatibility and this is real! It is a reality now - Firefox finally won being the "default" browser on my computer! It only took 5 years ;-)

We all know Downloads != Installs. Many site developers download it to check compatability, but not use it on a regular basis.

I have downloaded Firefox about 10 times to various PC's in various versions, but use none of them on a regular basis.

Yes, but I have installed FF on 100's of PC's from a thumb drive as so many others have as well.

Yes, but downloads from Mozilla sites!==All downloads.

So what's missing from the other sites *could* very well make up for the loss in your examples.

There's really no way to tell. Could be more, could be less.

Of course, they could make the browser phone home and then we'd get *real* stats, but who wants that?

"200 million people seeking Firefox is a huge..." exaggeration by Mozilla. Tip of the hat to Nate Mook for noting that. Mozilla is becoming the FoxNews of its own marketing.

It is huge, maybe everybody have different interpretation, 200 m is not a small number. I wouldnt imagine people who dislike faux dislike firefox, faux is designed for dumb people, while firefox is built for smart people.

I dont know why people like FF so much. Fanboyz? Security? Whatever... I could never get that pos to use mouse wheel scroll. And plugins, what a nightmare. I always liked Maxthon so much better. It has so many more usefull features built in. To each his own I suppose.

I could never get that pos to use mouse wheel scroll.

Sounds like a problem on your end, not Firefox's. No-one else here has reported such an issue. I personally have been using it since .3-something or other.

It has so many more usefull features built in.

Which leads to the #1 reason most Firefox users *love* firefox. Nothing is built in but basic browsing capabilies. Want anything else? Throw up the extension and you're good to go. The problem with built-ins, is that it's there whether you use it or not. :p

Can't believe anyone uses IE. Guess some old timers are afraid to get with the program. I use Seamonkey myself, a close cousin to firefox. But Firefox is good. As for IE 7, its horrible. Reminds me a bit of the Netscape 8 series. I guess they think the public likes small icons and small toolbars. Same with WMP 11. I guess thats the direction Microsoft is going in and i think it stinks. What happen to giving the cust. options. I always hate the terms, bloated and too much memorie being used. Sorry, i like all the features offered and memorie, come on, what are people using, pc's from 1985. As for security, You cant do better than firefox.

Errm, you can do MUCH better than Firefox for security (red=bad, green=good)....

FireFox: http://secunia.com/graph...eriod=all&prod=4227

IE: http://secunia.com/graph...;period=all&prod=11

Opera: http://secunia.com/graph...eriod=all&prod=4932

roflmao...

While I understand that Opera has none currently (according only top the graph you presented), using percentages to base an argument such as this on is laughable.

3% of 10 is .3

3% of 300,000 is 300.

Which has better security?

Again, I state my understandign that OPera has zero according to your graph. I am simply pointing out how flawed basing it on percentages is. A ratio would even be better, though exact numbers are always preferable.

You aren't by chance in sales or marketing, are you?

If you want real numbers (to date)

IE: 105 Secunia Advisories (21 unpatched)
Firefox: 34 Secunia Advisories (3 unpatched)
Opera: 15 Secunia Advisories (0 unpatched)

And before the mac fanboys pipe up.

Safari:

http://secunia.com/graph...eriod=all&prod=5289

5 Secunia Advisories (3 unpatched)

Looks about right.

Umm, 3% of 300,000 is 9,000

Don't question my maths, boy. I'll open a can of Whoop-Ass on your personage.

*grin*

There's a reason I'm not a programmer...

Oh OK, well you should also know that 3% of 10 is 3 not .3, lol.

ROFL

30% of 10 = 3

3% of 10 = .3

Nice one. And you thought you were being smart. =p

FireFox (with all ha'k extensions enabled) FOREVER!

Heh, Firefox is SOOO cliche...

Kinda like your posts in any topic that remotely concerns Firefox?

;)

...just sayin'.

Ok, that was a good burn.

More rah rah from the FF camp pumping up The Faithful.

*yawn*

Yeah. Damn them for being so proud of being the only browser to take significant browser market-share from MS.

Yes sir, Damn them all. Damn them to Hell.

/sarcasm

I don't use it myself, but I say go FireFox for bringing some heat. Tool is right (is that hell freezing over? j/k), they are the only browser in FOREVER to take a significant share from IE.

It's PC Tool to you. (and apparently porkchop to eclipsingdivinity)...

FireFox Rul3z !!

Have used it from ver 1.0 and have had no reason to change. yall kepe up da good work u here.

Is this *just* from the spreaddfirefox site? There are millions (slight exaggeration) of other places to download it. They couldn't possibly track them all (Unless it phones home...).

Hitting the 200 million mark does not mean Firefox has that many users, as the download count includes both Firefox 1.0 and version 1.5. In addition, users may have downloaded the browser multiple times, or the download may not have been completed.

Based on the assumption they were not tracking all possible download sites, I'd hazard to guess the actual number of users could be larger or smaller than the 200mil they counted.

...just sayin'.

Very true. I believe these numbers are probably from the group of Mozilla-owned Web sites. I don't believe they include numbers from other sites linking directly to the download URL, though I could be wrong.

They only include the downloads from the group of Mozilla-owned Web sites.

All other site in Betanews.com, softpedia.com, and more, must more(if not all) point to mozilla web sites.

...Or those hosting the downloads on their own servers.

Mine doesn't. Any downloads I link to on my site are hosted there as well. I am sure that is the case for many community-based sites.

Mine doesn't point to them, I do it to save their bandwidth.

That's just cuz yer such a nice guy. ;)

Hi people,
just want to say if firefox and anything else someone else can use to I think TO manage your system or runing to have a sign something is needing to be CHECKED. PS: If not correct it sounded good