that's exactly what i was thinking. look what happened in india and the arab nations, they're spitting out elite coders by the 10 thousands now.

expose a third world generation, who (lets face it are going to be far more dedicated to their 'wonderjobs' than we ever will be), and you've got 100 million peeps exposed to open source instead of M$.

christ...

good spot tho felix.

Wait, how did Windows fail again? NOT ENOUGH FEATURES TO HIDE THE FLAWS. ::instert cheesy smiley::

GATES IS A a******

I don't see why everyone is raving about this $100 laptop as if it were technologicaly savy. Why even compare it to standard laptops out there? There is no use in going over its specks, there is nothing impressive about it, and you know what? It's not supposed to be impressive.

http://laptop.org/faq.en_US.html

These laptops are meant for underdeveloped schools and countrys, not to compete with your 3.0 Ghz P4 at home... Think of them more as the latest addition to the world vision group. I think Gates is plain stupid for even commenting on it. Check the link, there is no reason to even believe this cheap laptop will even compete with M$ or AMD. Unless they want a piece of the third world market, if theres anythign to take...

I mean, the thing looks like a fisher price toy from toys-r-us http://laptop.org/index.en_US.html
The hand crank is to power the machine, there is no build in charger since a lot of third world countrys dont have electricity.

The interesting thing here is that it is more powerful than the average PDA and it's $200+ less expensive.

If it or something like it hits the general marketplace PDAs may have to become very inexpensive to compete.

I see your point, but I still doubt American consumers will by anything they have to crank. We are just too lazy, if it doesnt take batterys we wont touch it. In addition, atleast PDAs have the advantage of being compact, and can store large amounts of data. The $100 laptop wont have these luxuries, it is only the bare minimum to get online and word-process

The crank isn't the only means of power, it does also include a power cord (which is also the strap).

I don't disagree though.

I will Laugh if this becomes of the most marketable products of the 21 Century. Then MIT can shove it in Microsofts face, And Amd can do the same to Intel. The product is very good, and its cause is the greatest. If Gates stopps trying to be the money hungry man he is(most evident with the next windows os, 6 verisons and the most expensive one is the only one worth purchasing), He would actually have come with the idea. This is all I have to say to Bill Gates, think of the kids futures, rather than you pocket.

Noone else think as I do why gates hates this Idea?

People get a $100 PC with a HDD, what is there to stop them taking a Windows CD that they 'got' from there friends and installing XP/2000/ or even 98 on it (don't know the specs as I'm from the UK)

Bill don't care that the PC is cheap why should he bar the XBox MS normally stays outta the hardware side of PC's.

PS, If we in the UK had a $100 PC (about £140) with linix I would buy one now and just change the OS to FreeBSD.

Good luck to the company doing this and start this in the UK soon I beg of you

"what is there to stop them taking a Windows CD that they 'got' from there friends and installing XP/2000/ or even 98 on it"

Uh, people already do that. They have done that since the floppy disc was invented. A cheap laptop isn't going to make any difference.

Imagine. Just six years from now, 100 million youngsters will be joining the workforce in the developing world. And they have all had 6 years experience running Linux on their own laptops. What's going to happen to Window's market share then?

Then you have 100 million youngsters that will need to learn Windows.

Or you have a 100 million youngsters with open minds and a real understanding of computers.

Yeah since using XP automatically makes a person closed-minded and computer illiterate, right? Right...

seems to have worked with you :)

seriously, windows is for morons :) people using windows lack the mentality to make the decesion what a real operating system should be and run like. all they are interested in is turning their pc's into overpriced console game stations

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Get off your cardboard pedestal you arrogant and ignorant nerd.

at least overpriced gameconsoles are used for something. Linux is not usable, it's only for stupid morons like you to masturbate over because they can't get someone to have sex with.

or maybe linux users have a false sense of importance and think they should be able to dictate what is in an os instead of the creator.

would you like some to pick what kind of house you have, what kind and size of tv, what kind and color of car. I didn't think so. So you let someone else pick everything about your operating system.

"Linux is not usable"

Thats weird, i'm using it right now. It is also being used by many other people i know and don't know....that is so strange.

Troll... you don't have even one good argument. You suck.

...yes!

...no!

On the contrary, shy_one, they would most likely learn how to fix it themselves like all proper techheads do. These $100 machines will encourage creativity and innovation among people who normally would not have access to tech gear like this. Owning your own computer is a very empowering thing, no matter how humble the equipment. We all had to start somewhere.

Bill Gates, thanks to his wife Melinda's influence and philanthropic endeavours over the years, was starting to look like a decent human being. However, his latest statements are again showing what an out of touch, insecure, greedy, and selfish clod he truly is. Instead of offering up praise for the dedication and brainpower it took to achieve this goal, he feels the need to publically belittle and deride the initiative. He's like a spoiled, petulant toddler and is an embarrassment to geeks everywhere.

Well zee7 i have to disagree just based on my own experiences the average user is not very good at trouble shooting they call people like you and me to help and when you ask them a question you get the deer staring in the headlights look because they are lost even thou to tech heads (as you call it) it's just a simple straite foward question.

I don't know if Microsoft offered to pony up some free software but i know Apple did and i think they should have gone with something that would have proper support in place.

Given who these devices are meant for you guys aren't going to like this but Bill is right about support being needed at the very least they should have taken Apples offer.

When something does go wrong you think the people who these things are targeted for can afford to take it into the shop to get software problems fixed hell no if they could they would buy a proper computer.

Apple couldn't afford the shipping on their AppleCare program.

OSX would not run.

this awesome...hope to get me one for my kids!

My respect for him just dropped quite a bit, and I'm actually one of the people that like him. There was really no reason for him to make comments like that about it, or any at all since it doesn't involve Microsoft. It does sound like he's bitter about them not using Windows on it. It's very much unlike him though, I agree with mjm's comments.

Beta News wrote basically the same exact story about Intel a few months back. Do you really think he's bitter? or that Beta News is just trying to get readers. Sadly Beta News is beginnning to sink to the low level that ZDNet news inhabits. If they wanted to do news they could have talked about the $100 laptop instead of talk about Bill Gates making fun of the $100 Laptop. Organizations that buy these things don't care about features or anything else. The kid that gets one of these will love it, regardless if the screen is tiny or not. LOL - now it actually sounds like I'm bitter...sorry didn't mean to jump your pile about your comment. It just kinda turned into a rant. All I'm saying is don't let Beta News influence your respect for Bill Gates, the Gates foundations donates tons and tons of money each year to various organizations. Don't let a little comment undo all that the Gates Foundation has done.

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/default.htm

Betanews doesn't "need readers", they are doing quite well I'm sure.

I've been here for at least 5 years now, and I still visit it a bunch of times a day.

It's one of the best quality news sites on the web.

In my opinion, it is the best.

Of course Betanews wants to get readers! They to this for a living. Now, don't be stupid and filter the information coming in your brain.

Strange, although Gates is a billionaire 50+ times over, he typically is in touch with the classes of people that use computers, which is why it's so strange that he's commenting on this technology. Typically he'd ignore it. Intel typically ignores everything AMD does as well, I guess they are semi-freaked about this, because with linux, dists like ubuntu now being actual desktop competitors, he does have to start thinking about costs on the low end.

If anyone doesn't think linux is ready for the desktop, I manage a law firm's network, and in trials of ubuntu breezy, users were delighted with the OS and features.

It didn't work out that way for MR. Napster Shaun Fanning now did it :)

This is an old story.

Gates is a loser.

A PDA doesn't have a hard drive, is it useless too?

Anything for a buck.

The guy doesn't have a clue.

His bank account says otherwise oh anonymous person behind keyboard.

Having money doesn't make you less of a loser. It makes you a loser with a lot of money.

I'd rather have morals, and friends among other things than an obscene amount of money any day thanks.

Ill take his money and be a loser anyday..

I'll pass, I have a great life as it is. I don't need more money than I already have.

I never said anything about his morals. I simply said he isnt a loser because he is quite successful.

Right, you'd just turn all those billions of dollars down because you're happy and don't need any more money. lol :P

..

'nuff said

'nuff said, GIT-R-DONE! Whatever, you'd take his money and you know it. Stop trying to act like you're above everyone else.

Who said I was above anyone?

Because I'm not money hungry?

Sorry chump.

Gates & Craig are under one roof. their eyes gets red when they see open markets. however, their eyes get bloody when they see the open markets shuts them out.

to some extend they are right, however, we all know their scold is because of MIT's decision to not use their products.

Both MS & Intel has been generous to education, but these comment by them has given me a different view of their perspective on education, which is ultimately the profit they are interested.

the greeds get more greedy with $50 billion asset on hand and still growing as this discussion continues.

He's bitter because just like piracy, free copies lead to adaptation, and that leads to paid copies down the line.

BTW, an OS with no hard drive may actually power on and off quickly.

In my own opinion, why is it that Windows isn't some sort of RAM chip? I never understood that.

RAM cannot store data when it is without power, thus shutting down the device would remove the OS.

That's why it's not on a RAM chip.

It is, however, on ROM chips used in embedded systems. Has been for many years. PDAs, come kiosks (those that don't use an actual PC), etc...many more.

The problem with storing your OS in ROM on your PC is because the life-expectancy of such memory under heavy constant use is slightly longer than 1 year. Not hardly long enough to make it useful in an environment requiring normal PC operation.

Well, that and ROM stands for Read Only Memory....thus no OS updates. (unless they use flashable, in which case the life expectancy is even lower)

The life expectancy of ROM is not 1 year. Maybe for some older versions (REAL old) of EEPROM, but ROMs last pretty much forever. The PCs that don't have flashable BIOSes are using ROM. The flashable BIOSes are EEPROM.

That said there are two major problems with OS in (EEP)ROM. One being that the chips aren't that large, and are fairly expensive (per megabyte). The second is that loading your OS from ROM won't give you the speed increase you are expecting. Loading the OS from disk is only one part of the equation. The OS will still have to search the hardware, initialize all the devices, and then (usually the major cause of PC slowdown), load all the crap the user has in their startup folders. So for a few hundred dollars in EEPROM chips, you can shave 14 seconds off your 60 second boot up time. Most people wouldn't find that a reasonable cost. That's not to say that it doesn't have it's place, or some people wouldn't want it.

LMAO! Too true... and can you just imagine having to flash your BIOS every time you get an update? God forbid a power outage occur in the middle of it, lol. And let's not forget that if the CMOS battery dies, it will reset the configuration constantly and become "forgetful".

There's truth in the saying, "You get what you pay for." I think anyone who invests in the $100 PC (at this point in time) is just begging for problems.

That's pretty interesting, but it's not correct. If ROMs had a life expectancy of only a little over a year no one's motherboards would work after that amount of time (just one example).

;-)

Hard use, fewt, like a system hard drive gets, not intermittant, like the BIOS gets.

Sorry; meant ROM.

Pretty much forever as they have traditionally been used. Throw them in situations like we are talking about (constant, demanding use), and their life expectancy drops considerably.

These chips were not designed for constant operation.

Fair points, King.

I'm looking forward to the not-too-distant future when you have a laptop that has, say, 3 8gb flash memory drives as its storage.

The reason I commented that "why isn't an OS on R(O)M", is because if for example Apple sold OSX on a cartridge of some sort, you sort of dongle the OS, improve the load time, and offer a simple upgrade by swapping it. Updates would be held in disk space, but imagine the difficulty in pirating...

The BIOS is constantly used though. ;-)

The BIOS is called to update system time, it's called thousands of times per second for IO control (interrupts), etc. It still has many many uses. I'll give you that modern OSs generally give little to the BIOS once the OS has bootstrapped, but I'll bet it's still used really quite often. Granted much less than 20 years ago though.

NOW if you are talking writes, then you would be on the right path. Many writable "rom" types (EEPROM, Flash, etc) have a MTBF based on # of writes.

So, I'm still thinking you aren't correct (lemme shake the dust off my electronics degree a bit heh)

SHIVER

I just imagined loading an OS from a bank of EEPROMS

YUCK!

(It was speedy when OSs were less than 128K though)

Hopefulyl they will be able to extend the life expectancy of these types of memory when subjected to heavy use. Unfortunately, it has not been something they've really had to look at until recently when USB flash-drives became popular.

These drives are great, but don't fall for it when they tell you they'll last forever.

If you plug that baby in, copy your MP3 files to it and connect it to the radio in your car, play them on the computers, etc. for extended periods of time, they will be dead within a year. I guarantee it.

I tested this wtih 3 devices. The 1GB SanDisk Titanium Cruzer, the 512MB Imation, and a peice of crap IOMega.

I used them in the car, playing MP3s through an adapter in my Radio, at work, and occaisionally over the weekends. Considering this is what they are being advertised as being able to do, I did not think it over and above their intended use.

Not a single on of them lasted more than 1 year. The SanDisk Titanium lasted the longest, a total of 8 months and change.

Unless some drastic changes were made in the last 8 months, I doubt they've solved the issue. Needless to say, I am currently using Hard-drive based players.

*shrug*

My own experiences tell me differently. Playing MP3's 8 hours a day, I would assume, is quite a bit more use than the BIOS sees...or saw when I was 12.

It could definately be writes, but even with that caveat, the suggested use of them as a place for the OS to reside is pretty much out the window, eh?

Unfortunately, for swapping music, changing up playlists and, and such, you pretty much run into the same issues. I'll not be using FLASH based MP3 or storage devices again, that's for sure.

:P Oh *sure*

After all the controversy and betrayal. After the heads have rolled and with the slaggards up against the wall.

After all the mud, the blood, and the beer, *then* he corrects himself.

;P

I tell ya....

Many embedded devices use writable memory for storage, the embedded motherboard I have at home (ripped from an i-opener) has 16MB of it.

The key is to limit the number of writes, so when I'm doing embedded stuff I write to random access memory and then commit multiple changes if necessary at once. I don't do that often though since most embedded stuff is static (except for initial configuration).

My I-Opener board uses sandisk flash memory and reads from it thousands of times when it's running. It's been working great for years. :-)

not true many flash drives come with a lifetime warrenty, which is around 30 years if i rememeber correct.

of course could be the environment you live in, like humidity and leaving it near a hot computer or in the sun will damage them

I think That it's a great inititive, Computers are everywhere in our lives. And every one should have one just to know how to operate it. There's to many computer-idiots who think themselves a computer-geeks.

Those computers are not ment to be highly powerful, over featured super computers, but machins which you can type on, browse net etc. Their target are not 3dMax, or Photoshop users, but children.

And OpenSource base is also a good move. If a child will be able to learn Linux, they will not have big problems with switching to MacOS or Windows.

It's sad that such good project is "geez, Bad project" only because those laptops are not powered by Intel and M$, some people may even really bealive in this :(

Privately bitter? I think its pretty obvious he is bitter, considering he was a Harvard Student..

a harvard student that dropped out.....

I think a Harvard student who dropped out and is now the richest man in the world is a better sign of success than a Harvard student who graduated. The Google boys didn't exactly finish their degree program at Stanford.

Hmm... people who go to big schools and drop out have a higher chance of becoming rich and productive geeks... is that the comparison we're trying to make? :)

He was the lesser of two idiots, nothing more.

He was just in the right place at the right time; knowing how to write BASIC and being able to license it to MITS for the Altair. Opportunities like that don't come up very often though.