Microsoft made Windows and IE, I don't see why they shouldn't use a search engine that will make them money. If it bothers them, why don't Google owners make their own OS and/or software?

Google is doing what AOL/Netscape was doing before?

Oh come on, make better browser as you did better SE or keep crying like a fool kid!

I don't love msn I don't use it as my default SE, I use google, but this socks me, heh fight well or! ms will kick your @$$ ;)

Here's what you do with IE, any version : you use it ONCE to download Firefox.

You keep it on hand for occasional non-standard sites built by incompetent designers.

I just switched all of my default searches to MSN and made sure to delete the Google search all together.

Google is the devil.

Their owners are little whiney spoiled kids. It shows in the company daily.

so true
im also dumping google

Apparently it must be too hard to make your own browser. If Google/Yahoo are so worried about people using their search tools, then they should go out on the edge and build a better browser.

It was NOT difficult to change my default search setting. When I went to google and yahoo.com they both had a huge ad on their website explaining how to change my default search bar setting.

Yeah competition is tough. I'm getting tired of companies complaining about Microsoft. They need to get off there @$$ and start competing for themselves instead of crying to the courts all the time.

GG Google! I've now changed my default search settings back to MSN!

While I'm never one to rush to the aid of Microsoft (god knows I've got my own share of complaints and criticisms) I don't see what the big deal is really. Microsoft owns both IE and MSN - it's their product they can do what they like with it. Bundle them together, why not? It only makes sense, especially from a business perspective - to not include it would only imply that they were not confident in their own product.

For me a search engine stands on its merits, not what software chooses it by default. The only complaint I would have is if you couldn't change the default search engine to be anything but MSN. But that's a usability issue - I'll just keep on using Firefox if it's that big a deal for me.

People who already are faithful Google users, chances are will continue to be - the name Google alone is almost synonymous with searching.

I agree with comment that this move on Googles part makes them look weak and, dare I say it, afraid.

I can't count how many times a day I use Google, (I would go so far to say as it's almost hardwired into my internet psyche) and, as long as it continues to returns good results, I will continue to use it. If the quality of Google fades, then I will have to seek alternatives. Until then, however, Google is my search engine of choice.

I would caution Google however on its apparent quest to destroy its competition...competition is at the heart of what motivates us as a species to excel. If you remove it you will lose the very thing that has brought you to where you are today.

Microsoft is a shining example of this in my opinion. The world is not dependant on Microsoft now because it is better, but because in many cases it's simply too painful or troublesome to change. What's worse is that this often feels as though it were by design (and quite frankly I'm convinced that it is). Microsoft is dominant because we've essentially been strong-armed into it and now that's what it takes to keep people there. As a programmer and a business owner that's not the image I would want for my company.

Just my opinion.

Exactly. I use Google exclusively but I think the maker of the software should decide what to do with it and who to include.

Open IE 7 Beta 2 and go to Google and it will tell you to download FireFox with the Google toolbar. ROFL

So why is Google upset? They are telling people to use Firefox so why should MS make Google the defualt engine?

I load Google.com here and the switch ad did not appear.

All this nonesense about default search. Every time I go to visit my 78 year old mother and I take a look at her browser there is either the Google toolbar, Yahoo toolbar, or some other such contrivance installed on her browser. She just surfs the net and the tool bars magically appear.

Google needs to quit the b****ing and accept the fact that Microsoft has every right to set defaults in IE. It's so easy to choose which search engine you want to use or intall it's pathetic that they are complaining.

Seems the cycle of evil greed has infected Google much faster than anyone could have predicted. In a few more years people will despise Google more than any other computer related company, and Bill Gates will be known primarily as the world's greatest and most generous philanthropist.

For those of you that complain about MS, and security, read this. Eat it, swallow it, choke on it. I keep saying, you are purposely targeting MS, but here is one company that updates security patches REGULARLY.

Testing problems are forcing some Oracle users to wait a little longer than usual for the company's latest round of security patches, the first of which were released last month.

Though Oracle offered patches for a number of its most popular products as part of its April 18 Critical Patch Update, it had said that updates for many other versions of the products would not become available until May 1. Now, the database vendor is saying that many of those critical updates may not be available until as late as May 15.

Oracle typically releases about 150 patches for a variety of different operating systems in its Critical Patch Updates, which ship every three months.

The problem with the April update is that some of the patches have not yet passed the comprehensive suites of tests that Oracle uses to ensure that they will not disrupt customer's applications, said Darius Wiles, manager of Oracle Security Alerts.

"There were some [updates] that failed out of the test suite, so we needed some more time to test them," Wiles said.

Oracle is particularly eager to complete testing and release updates for some of the more widely used versions of its database, including version 8.1.7.4 and 10.1.0.4. But the company first needs to ensure that the new software will not disrupt customers, Wiles said.

Oracle users can find more information on the estimated delivery date of Oracle's patches by checking the pre-installation notes Oracle has published for each of its products. These can be found on Oracle's MetaLink online support service by searching for document: 360464.1

Security researcher and Oracle critic David Litchfield believes that by waiting so long to update some versions of its products, Oracle is undermining the value of its regular patch release cycle, which is designed to provide customers with regular, predictable software updates.

In an interview, Litchfield criticized both the lateness of the updates and their quality.

"The whole point of a regular patch cycle is that people can plan ahead and install once," said Litchfield, managing director of Next Generation Security Software, in Sutton, England. "But if you are having to install it nine times, where's the benefit of that?"

Litchfield estimates that two-thirds of Oracle's supported products are now unpatched, leaving many users vulnerable.

But Wiles countered that the problem appears to be worse than it is. Because updates for some applications, such as Oracle's application server, are dependent on the database fixes, there has been a bottleneck effect with the updates. "Once we get the database stuff cleared, there are going to be a whole bunch of products that are going to be patched."

Though some security researchers such as Litchfield are critical of Oracle's delays, most customers prefer that the software vendor deliver a tested and reliable product, said David Kennedy, a senior risk analyst with Cybertrust, in Herndon, Virginia. "I'm sympathetic with Oracle," he said. "They get barbecued for not coming up with patches fast enough."

http://www.infoworld.com...acleaprilpatches_1.html

Ahhhh, what the hell does this have to do with Google complaining about IE7 using MSN as the default search engine?

Thanks for the off topic rant.

They may be good at patching, and that is responsible behavior after the fact, but it would be a lot better if Microsoft were better at doing up-front design work in the first place so the clouds of post-release patches weren't necessary.

Windows is a complex architecture by design, but it doesn't have to be that way.

This sort of whiny guff is typical of a lack of competitive spirit and implementation in the operating system, media player and search engine markets. If I want to use Google by default, I simply only have to make the appropriate change in my browser's preference section.

I use Opera most often because it has a zoom capability no other browser has, and a built in RSS reader, too. The choice is available for those who want to make it, and requires no intervention from the law, or government to make it so, for any of us.

Google would do better by applying its financial and marketing muscle to a complete operating system based on Solaris/BSD/Linux so that they have the control they seek.

I installed IE7 beta 2 a couple of days ago.
It was easy to add Google & Yahoo as well as other search engines, which I did. And I set Google by default because I have been using Google already all the time.

Their whining made me change my mind however.
MSN-serch is now my default and I wiped Google completeley (it's not even amongst my choises anymore).
They have been too childish this time - sorry !

It may be easy for us how to change this but that's why we're all on a tech forum. Studies have shown that 60% of people who surf on the internet do't know how to or don't even know it's possible.
And it may be very easy on the beta IE to change this but it has to be same for the final release. Google is putting the pressure up know so there won't be a 18-month lawsuit when the final IE arrives. These 18 months (just a guess btw) can be enough for MS to profit from there bundled copy of Vista with IE and MSN search.

For downloaded copies of IE from the internet I don't have problems with. People who know how to change or upgrade their browser sure know how to change the default search engine.

"It may be easy for us how to change this but that's why we're all on a tech forum. Studies have shown that 60% of people who surf on the internet do't know how to or don't even know it's possible."

This little statistic has *nothing* to do with IE7.

Right now, it's prominently displayed on the first page loaded by the browser.

Right now, there is no learning curve.

Right now, it's right.

Anything else is just speculation.

If 60% of people can't change the default search in their browser then those 60% need to stop using computers and leave it to us geeks like it used to be.

Freaking idiot morons.

If Google makes a fuss about it now and MS doesn't change it in the final release it'll stay speculation.
Otherwise there might be another lawsuit that nobody is gonna profit from.
If these concerns pit out by Google have led to this in the future than everything is right now. Better to prevent the problem now than find a cure for it later.

Love it , Keep it going . Screw Gate's + IE 7beta 2 ! Can't even STEAL Firefox Right !

It's funny that Google caved in to one of the most oppressive countries on the planet (China) a couple of months ago when China wanted Google searches to be censored within that country.

Now Google is crying because a competitor is trying to get a larger piece of the Search Pie.

Pathetic.

what a devilish company !
an American against an American in EU.
im starting to dislike google for their whining.
if they can use their dominance in search engine to make people use firefox with a google tool bar and a google as a default search engine then there is absolutely nothing wrong if Microsoft makes live as the default search engine.
There is no point in raising point of discrimination when google is discriminatory toward Microsoft, but what i dislike most is the fact that how un-american they have become they should not have gone to EU.

Im checking out other engines on day to day basis, because i feel that Dominance is bad in almost any case.

Still, google is my default search engine, but there is a possibility that i might change that in future.

I checked recently all major search engines and surprisingly _only_ MSN search HTML is 100% valid and also very semantic.

what is the point ?

The point was M$ sometimes can do not evil things too. ;)

Whatever, Google. Firefox has Google as its default page, but you don't see M$ whining about it.

Be happy that M$ even allows its users to select a different engine, including yours.

Google has no reason to cry.

Google has to *pay* Mozilla to have Firefox set it as a default.

The point is, is this another case of Microsoft using one monopoly to leverage control in another area?

On the other hand, I'm not sure what they *could* set the default too. Perhaps they could have a list of the top 5 and ask the user to make a choice?

Opera actually had a poll: "Which search engine would you prefer as a default search field in the Opera browser?". http://my.opera.com/community/index.dml?prev=27
Here are some results:
Google (9402 votes, 78%)
Yahoo (1301 votes, 11%)
MSN (368 votes, 3%)

And one more poll from Opera Community - back to year 2003 I think... http://my.opera.com/community/index.dml?prev=83
Google (1726 votes, 78%)
Yahoo (202 votes, 9%)
AlltheWeb (129 votes, 6%)
AltaVista (75 votes, 3%)
Pretty interesting... magic 78% :D

My thoughts exactly. Is there a point to this complaint since IE7 can be configured to default to Google as a search engine?

You know I've been running IE7 for about a week now and the first thing that I noticed was a box that popped up when I went to Google. The box basically allowed me to make Google the default search engine simply by clicking "Yes". I don't see why they are crying about it, atleast Microsoft coded in that option.

Did you happen to see the ad for Google here on Betanews?

"Fact: You can earn more money when people use the Google search box on your site."

I didnt know that Google searching needed such advertising.

Unfortunately, such seems to reflect the current state of business as practiced by too many of the dominant companies, MS & Google included...

Personally, I would enjoy and appreciate being able to have the choice and to configure the default search engine of my choice. And such functionality Would increase my likihood of using the product.

However, I also believe that each company should be free to define the functionality and feature mix of their own products. And if their strategic planning leads them to believe that a more limited choice of functionality will benefit them, that is their decision.

And if that decision on the part of a manufacturer does not suit my needs or desires, then I am free to change to another program that suits my desires more adequately.

As long as this choice exists, then I have no problem with their decisions, however enlightened or ignorant they may be on the part of the manufacturers.

What is a bit humorous and sad to observe, however, is how each company seeks to achieve a strategic advantage via market control and limiting customer choice when they see it as favoring their position, and then how they run to the courts whining about the same practices of others when it adversely affects them! Seems like a simple case whereby one should be content to play by the same rules that they initially set forth. And to this degree, both MS and Google (and far too many others!) fall woefully short.

Again, Google is the devil.

What a poor little moron whiny company they have become.

Cry cry cry...grow up.

"Much like Firefox does with Google, the new version of Internet Explorer will be set up by default to send search queries to MSN Search. Google contends that this gives Microsoft an unfair advantage over its competitors."

-No kidding huh? It's their browser. Why would they not make their own search a default? At least they didn't exclude Google. Now they should!

F___ Google!

I think this is pretty sad. I hear Google is going to make their own browser and who do you think they're going to put as their default seach...MSN?, YAHOO?...no Google. So if the court says MS can't make MSN their default search on IE (which I doubt will happen) then when Google comes out with their new broswer, they should complain that Google should make their default search MSN.

This whole thing is just pathetic...grow up Google!

I guess you didn't read the article.

"Google is also apparently ready to remove any appearance of a double standard by pushing for search choice on Firefox and Opera if need be, a representative told the New York Times."

says nothing about google's own browser.....

What google browser?

a rumor

Nah...

Never happen. They'll continue to fund Firefox. Why burden themselves with support and other concerns. This way, they can steer development and stay out of the limelight if it fails/gets bad press.

I read that, but you know if/when Google makes its own browser it still going to make Google its top search. Any browser maker would do that if they have a search. AOL browser does it, IE does it you'd be stupid no to.

Poor, poor Google. It sounds like their days are numbered and they want to blame their failure on someone other than themselves. They definately need some cheese to go with all of their whining!

Yeah, I'm sure their days are numbered. I'll probably click on my Google bookmark tomorrow and it won't work.

Hah.

The only way MSN could beat Google is by cheating or putting a hell of a lot of research / marketting money into it.

Looks like someone is a little scared... :O

http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/
Jeremy Zawodny wrote
==============================
Marissa Mayer of Google said:

"The market favors open choice for search, and companies should compete for users based on the quality of their search services," said Marissa Mayer, the vice president for search products at Google. "We don't think it's right for Microsoft to just set the default to MSN. We believe users should choose."

BUT

Google has been pushing their toolbar for Internet Explorer very aggressively ever since information about Internet Explorer 7 was first available several months ago. The writing was on the wall and they could see it as well as anyone.

If Google actually cared about user choice, they'd have asked the Mozilla Foundation to configure Firefox to prompt you to choose your favorite search engine the first time you ran it. You know, a level playing field.

Did they do that?

No!

Instead they bought their way into the default position with a revenue sharing deal. And now they're upset because they can't do the same with Internet Explorer. Well, they can but they're gonna have to pay OEMs like Dell, Gateway, HP, and so on. That's a lot of deal making and a lot more money that'll hit their earnings in the form of TAC (Traffic Acquisition Costs).

Clearly Google fight for money not user choice as they said in their complains.

I guess you didn't read the article.

"Google is also apparently ready to remove any appearance of a double standard by pushing for search choice on Firefox and Opera if need be, a representative told the New York Times."

Here's a big gap in the article. What in the world might it mean to be "apparently" ready to remove appearances of a double standard by pushing for search choice "if need be." The comment is either unintelligible or a confession to the worst hypocrisy. It would have been nice had the interviewer tried to clear that up. Google seems to be saying that if it absolutely must to preserve its image, it intends to go so far as to advocate search neutrality when it is the preferred engine. That it will not assert a principle except under dire need confesses that it is not really true to its principles, that is, confesses the double standard it tries to distance itself from.

While one hesitates to impose this uncharitable interpretation on nonsense, certainly it is over-charitable to interpret this statement as actually supporting search neutrality.

complaints with a t

I find all these arguements interesting.
I also find that having the government dictate to any company what they can and can't include with their products insane.
It's MICROSOFT's browser, should they have the default search set to Netscape?
And those that comment about Microsoft including IE with Windows, would you rather they didn't?
No browser at all in Windows means NO web access at all unless you have a disk with a browser on it . . . and how many average users know how to use FTP to download files? Oh wait, I forgot, Windows uses IE as it's built in FTP client, so you're still stuck . . .
Yes, they package their products with Windows (think about it though, most of the products that come with Windows are pretty limited.) and set the default home page and search to MSN. It makes perfect sense.
I use Ubuntu Linux and when you open either of the browsers in Ubuntu it defaults to the Ubuntu welcome page. Should I be complaining about that since I prefer to use Google for my home page?
I can't understand where Google is coming from with this, and I can't understand people that are saying, "Yeah, Google is right!"
Is there ANY logic to saying, "It's wrong for Microsoft to set the default to MSN search?"
If you don't like the defaults for just about ANY decent software, it's usually not too difficult to change it, so just change it. And if Google is so worried about new users not knowing how to change it, well, if that person knows enough to type, "www.google.com" there's a pop-up that tells them how, or if they click the down arrow next to the search button, again, there it is, "Google" and another choice to change the default, add more search engines, so forth . . .
This seems to me to be a case of, "Any press is good press." Microsoft is seen by so many as this corporate monster to be hated and feared, you could say just about any idiotic thing againts Microsoft and you'll have all the Microsoft bashers saying, "YEAH YEAH! Microsoft SHOULD make Windows run OS-2/Warp programs! Why can't it now? Damned Microsoft, screwing us all the time I can't use any of my OS-2 programs with it . . ."
I think you see my point.
Mic

whats the prob.. with the google?? its just a browser.. people choose what they want and like.. there is always a option or a choice. isnt it?? if your default search engine is not ur choice then change it.. duh.. you dont like your browser then change it.. duh.. its just a matter of choice :-) people are not the dumb or idiot.. ;-)

In fairness, what's listed as the default browser can probably make a huge difference. And if you say 'It's Microsoft's browser and they can do what they want with it,' ignores the tie-in to the operating system and states a principle that if followed consistently would require scuttling all anti-trust law.

What makes Google's cry pathetic is that in the area in question, Google is the monopolist, not Microsoft. Microsoft has the right to be proud that it has never resorted to these tactics, even when it is the underdog.

or maybe we should question the fairness of telling microsoft what to do with it's own products. isnt interoperability technically just a perk provided by ms? maybe we should ask why it is legal for us to dictate what someone makes. why does microsoft have to make windows fair to other companies and work with other programs when apple doesnt have to make ipods work with other compainess drm? dont you think that is a little one sided and unfair?

"scuttling all anti-trust law."

First good idea I've heard all day. :)

At the very least, it needs to be greatly reformed if bundling is still considered an abuse.

What a horrible, one sided story.

Shame on you BetaNews.

Maybe you can enlighten us?

Wah-wah-wah!! Google, stop whining!!

Let's make sure we're basing our opinions on precise facts instead of what we vaguely recall. To review, here is the verified behavior of Firefox 1.5.0.2 and IE 7.0.5346.5 (Beta 2) on Windows XP:

A fresh install of Firefox defaults to Google, no questions asked. A fresh install of IE7 defaults to MSN, no questions asked. This applies to BOTH the default search engine/provider and the default home page, unless Microsoft's free IEAK tool has been used to create a custom package for installation, or unless Microsoft's Group Policy feature of Active Directory has been used to override defaults within an organization's network. As open source, Firefox permits users to create custom installations, and some commercial products for network policy management have added Firefox support, but no canned tools similar to IEAK are available yet.

The page which is displayed automatically upon first launch of IE7 does NOT include instructions for changing the default search provider. The first launch page does include instructions for certain options but search provider is not one of them. To see those instructions, you must scroll to the bottom, click "Save your settings" followed by "Take a quick tour..." From there, you can either click directly on the Search tab to see the instructions, or you can go through the tour, in which case it will take 4 clicks to arrive at the Search portion.

The first launch page for Firefox DOES include instructions for adding search engines, but the featured examples do not include MSN. Specifically, they are: Food Network, IMDB, Wikipedia, and Yahooligans.

It requires a total of 4 clicks to add MSN to the list of search engines in Firefox and set it as default. It requires a total of 5 clicks to add Google to the list of search engines in IE7 and set it as default. (Note that I count a click as each press of any mouse button, so choosing an item from a drop-down list is 2 clicks to me, rather than 1 as some news reports are counting. Although there are multiple ways to access these options in both browsers, I am counting the minimum number of clicks required immediately after a normal launch of a default install.)

The IE7 user interface also allows you to remove MSN from the list, in 5 total clicks. Firefox does not currently have any method for removing a search engine via the Firefox user interface; users must find the searchplugins folder under their Firefox profiles and delete 2 files. For "average" end-users, this makes it virtually impossible to remove Google if they wish.

The search box in IE7 cannot be turned off. The one in Firefox can.

When users encounter Flash in Firefox for the first time, the default installation of Flash Player does not affect search in any way. When users encounter Flash in IE7 for the first time, the default installation of Flash Player will also install Yahoo Toolbar. Currently, this does not change the default home page nor the default search provider for IE7 but does add an additional Yahoo search box in the toolbar area of the browser. Also, when IE7 first visits yahoo.com, the site already detects it and displays, "Did you know? You can quickly search with Yahoo! right from the new search box in your browser." Clicking the large orange button labelled "Choose Yahoo" will add Yahoo to IE7's search providers and set it as default.

"Firefox does not currently have any method for removing a search engine via the Firefox user interface"

There is an extension that you can use that is called SearchPluginHacks to remove search engines. I found the link on the same page where you pick search plugins.

Just the name of the extension reveals it's not a standard procdure...

lmao.,..

The fact that it's an extension reveals that, dude.

Yes, but Google have to *pay* the Mozilla Corp to put Google as default.

They don't do it for free, you know!

"Google is also apparently ready to remove any appearance of a double standard by pushing for search choice on Firefox and Opera if need be, a representative told the New York Times. Microsoft says such a method would end up being confusing, and would instead allow changes through the browser's control panel."

Google offers a amicable solution and Microsoft doesn't like it because they wouldn't own the search market with it.

Firefox 2 will come out before IE 7 become final, usually next year. I don't think Google wants to do it.

all fine and dandy for google to offer that when they will keep their dominant market share. they only offer that option cause they know it wont really affect their standings.

Why Google? Why? I thought you guys were better than that... :(

OT:

Firefox 1.5.0.3 is out. Restart your browsers. ;)

Oh, for the love of God ...

Who really cares?

After hearing Google whining and running to the EU and the US Gov I set my default search engine to Yahoo in Firefox till I find something better. Bunch of crybabies must be running Google now.

We have a winner! Yahoo, its the best, why can't everyone see that.. -shrugs- Oh well.

"Yahoo, its the best"

I needed that. Thanks for the laugh, man. ;P

Just for you.. I was really hoping for another swat.. -sigh-

No, they get progressively worse with each iteration. The next one is a *thwack*.

...but you gotta earn that one.

Yah, i hadent really liked yahoo in the past, but am beginning to like it because they dont go around crying all day :)

What are they moaning at...as with every1 else when i used IE7 and visited the google page...a pop up came to make my default search google....

which i thought was quite good coming from Microsoft.

they're just being petty

I dont know why Google is whining either... because when I loaded up IE7 beta, the embedded search box defaulted to Google (AND it was the only one there. no yahoo, msn, etc).

Perhaps its because my homepage was Google? I dont know. All I know is that:
1) Google is the best thing to happen to the internet
2) IE7 either already took care of the issue with the latest beta or Google is making stuff up (bad Google... no soup for you!)
3) If you don't like the fact that the embedded search box isn't Google, and you don't know how to change it, then you have no right to be using Google in the first place. (it's a joke, simma down :-P)

And lastly, anyone who doesn't like Google hasnt experienced the awesomeness that Google is.

This only works, because your previous settings were on google, it upgrades not installs a new version, so that's not a fair test.

Build a machine from blank, install XP, then intsll IE 7, you will find it defaults to MSN.

*And lastly, anyone who doesn't like Google hasnt experienced the awesomeness that Google is.*

I experienced it, I don't like. I formed an opinion and I prefer Yahoo. Google is good for some, but its not the be all end all of search engines...

Now there was one, called infoseek, now THAT was a search engine...

yea or when the great meta search engines were around and still fast... meta crawler, dogpile, etc.

Competition is not bad.

It shows that Google needs to invest some money into firefox development.

My problem with IE7 and its embedded search box is that there doesn't seem to be a way to remove it from the toolbar. Other elements (menus, link bar, icon buttons) can all be disabled by users but the search box can't be removed from the toolbar. I don't want one at all.

(I didn't find it very difficult to make Google the default search engine in IE7 but by losing the Google toolbar you lose its other functions such as highlight.)

This too is a perk, not a nuisance.. why wouldn't you want the integrated search? Firefox has it, Netscape has it, Opera has it, so what's the problem? Its a SEARCH! why should you have to bring up a web page to search, use the handy shortcut, known as the integrated search.. That was there, because OTHER people requested it..

Why would you want to remove it?

browser and default search settings, its getting like a school yard tiff between whos got the best trainers and which que to the tuck shop is the quickest. WHO CARES !! The only people this effects are the noobs who dont change anything and still think IE is the only browser to use.

I know its all about advertising and marketing to as much as the population as posible, but really this is getting too much. Until there is a law to say no browser is fitted as standard, and even when you do install one there is no default search or home page, these squables over VIRGIN users who except what there given is never going to go away, and to be frank its all just silly.

I wonder if google would like a law to say that once you achieve over 15% market share then the option to even have a choise of google in favour of the other lesser known search engines to protect them whould be appealing.

I have no problem which google, i use it every day, but this kind of PR from such a big influence to me gives google a negative image. Id rather google want me to use then than force me to use it, and just because IE uses MSN and firefox uses google as standard does not give them the right to play politics with other companys products.

As others have noted, what's the big deal? Google's preferred (and sponsored) browser is Firefox, which defaults to Google search. No problem there, and it's easy to change. In IE7, it only takes one click — one click! — to make Google the default search engine. Yet in Firefox, MSN is not even among the listed search engine alternatives to Google. You have to manually add it.

Still, not a problem. So why is Google carping? Microsoft's not.

*Yet in Firefox, MSN is not even among the listed search engine alternatives to Google*

Interesting . . . . But does anyone point this out? Other than you of course..

Its funny how microsoft doesnt seem to mind that msn isnt in the default list on Firefox and Google is on the default list and is the default active search engine for firefox. Yet google is whinning about microsoft having msn as thier default search engine on IE7.

To me, thats just plain out sad. google is just getting plain out rediculous these days. google use to be a good nice little search engine before the company started to be a crybaby and whine.

lmao...

I hadn't even noticed. Funny, that.

I wonder if 2.0 (or 1.5.0.3, which I will install in about 5 minutes) will have it as an option.

It's Microsofts product, why wouldn't they link it to their web site by default?

Using this logic, that makes it wrong for AOL to use thier keyword search as default, Dell and most other OEM's to brand and change the home page / search page on their products, Yahoo to bundle yahoo companion with YM.

Hey, wait...does that make IE7 Spyware / Adware? lol.

If Google wants to dictate who's search engine is being used in a browser, they should come up with (or finaly release,) their own browser, instead of attempting to partner with every other browser (which I'm sure they called MS to do with IE7, and were refused,) to avoid the R&D / up keep costs of building and maintaining thier own browser.

As long as the Default can be changed by an NOOB and there are no restrictions as to what it can be changed to....who cares.

Does this mean that I can sue Google for determining the order that their results list in? My web page isn't on top by default even though I requested it...lol.

Yah, my webpage isnt on top either. I say we go talk to the US Government and the EU Commision about this one. =P lol

Hahaha.. Ok this was good for a laugh.

What is the link, so I can spam, I mean make it my fav...

dont have one, haha lol :p

I encourage all who are commenting to fully read this article.

"Google is also apparently ready to remove any appearance of a double standard by pushing for search choice on Firefox and Opera".

For Google, having the largest percentage share to want to work on not having a double standard shows the desire to keep a level playing field and allow quality of the actual service to determine usage -- not tactics like packaging IE with Windows with MSN as the default.

They have a good case.

OK, this goes waaaaaay back to windows 95. IE was a cheap browser back then, it was a customer requested software to be INCLUDED, because back then, we didn't have broadband, we had 28.8 some 14.4 dial-up, and we didn't want to wait for an hour to download a browser, Netscape complained, and this was thrown out in court back then, and this will be contested now.

I dont' care what value you place on having a product promote your own product, its THEIR PEROGATIVE to do so. There is *NOTHING* illegal or immoral, you are FREE to choose whatever browser you want, no restriction.

Netscape, isn't being prevented from installation, neither is a simple click to use Google as the Default Search engine on IE 7.

so no *They have a good case.* --

They don't.

I don't agree that they have a good case. Microsoft shouldn't be forced to have any search engine but their own as default. Should the gmail notifier check your hotmail by default or even at all? I know that is a stretch, but really... if the user can change the defaults in the preferences whats the big deal?

Perfectly said. Microsoft has every right to do that with IE7

Its funny listening to rich whiny ppl, like they don't have enough money. Either way, i don't like big, rich companies. They always bi*ch that they don't control enough sh*t, so what do they do, they sue the pants off one another. God just wish they could get over it. Ur both in business and rich, enjoy yourselves!!!

OK, I think Google is evil, but these comments about "rich people" and big business, is just stupid. Its obvious you are a punk. You can't complain companies have too much money or are whining, this is simple business. The article is written from the Author's perspective, and it should NOT be taken as fact.

Its THEIR interpretation of what is going on, there may be some facts presented, but companies aren't looking to control enough, as you so ignorantly put it. They are trying to do buisiness, nothing more.

They don't run a company like you put your lame immature comments. I detest people that resent the money that a company makes, based soley on their financial status. If you had a degree, or even common sense, you could get your own damn business and make your own money, you mama's boy. You live at home, and syphon your parent' income, and you complain about how rich other's are, well go piss up a rope.

Why is Google evil?

Umm.. I have commented on this so many times, I am tired of explaining.. Briefly, this article basically shows their side that they want to dominate the world.. And I can hear the murmurs that "...and MS doesn't?...". Yes, but when MS does it, its an attrocity, when companies like Google does it, its no big deal.

Google builds a profile on you, from their Gmail, they NEVER delete anything even if you do, that's what makes gmail so attractive.. They profile you based upon emails you receive and they spy on you.. its a FACT, not some mere made up fairy tale, and I am not getting into it..

"The article is written from the Author's perspective, and it should NOT be taken as fact."

Wrong. This is not a like the colomnist in the newspapers.

The buisiness they are doing is for pure "money". That is why google is crying to the US Government and the EU.

It is written as editorial content. I could browse a hundred news papers tomorrow, EACH with their OWN interpretation of What Google has a problem with, each will describe the facts, and go into detail about what the facts are, but its still written as commentary and opinion, otherwise, EVERY newspaper would be EXACTLY the same, and they aren't.

Just to clear things up for those not used to rijp's Google rants:

1.) Google never deletes anything...but then again, neither does your hard drive. It's simply marked as able to be written over, and can still be recovered, even after being overwritten. Google doesn't delete your email because they'd rather use the CPU time and Disk accessess for something a tad more useful.

2.) They profile you. This is just wrong. They profile nothing. Read their ToS, and Privacy statement, easily accessed from their search-page.

3.) They spy on you. No, they don't. No personally identifiable information is seen by human eyes. Any information you give them in the form of email or searching is merely scanned for keywords by a program. Read their ToS, and Privacy statement, easily accessed from their search-page.

4.) .. its a FACT, not some mere made up fairy tale. Again, it's not. This is just classic rijp. He's upset that they took Yahoo's game and schooled them on it. ;)

5.) and I am not getting into it.. Well, 'nuff said. He's completely unwilling or incapable of backing any of these claims up or responding intellectually to criticism regarding these statements. Typical of a Troll, or someone seeking to start a flamewar. This, as we all should know by now, is the main reason rijp enjoys these topics so much. He likes to start controversy.

...and I have to admit. It's fun to watch sometimes. I just don't want his methods interfereing with actual facts. :)

Oh? I recall deleting something just yesterday.

lol

Its deleted from YOUR view, now from the Google server. They keep stuff beyond when you need it.

*1.) Google never deletes anything...but then again, neither does your hard drive. It's simply marked as able to be written over, and can still be recovered, even after being overwritten. Google doesn't delete your email because they'd rather use the CPU time and Disk accessess for something a tad more useful.*

True, however, its marked as Available space, so it get's overwritten.. And your hard drive isn't shared to the entire world, just you. Google, reserves items you don't want, but THEY still retain them.

*2.) They profile you. This is just wrong. They profile nothing. Read their ToS, and Privacy statement, easily accessed from their search-page.*

WRONG! An indepent agency has concluded and proved they profile based upon incoming emails you get. You think its a pure coincidence that ads on your page as you read email just magically are similar to content you read? And then future emails seem to be honed to your tastes? Like technology or songs.. They are PROFILING and keeping information on you so they can send more crap your way.

*3.) They spy on you. No, they don't. No personally identifiable information is seen by human eyes. Any information you give them in the form of email or searching is merely scanned for keywords by a program. Read their ToS, and Privacy statement, easily accessed from their search-page.*

Yes they do. They read your email. A woman in California filed a lawsuit against Google, because she deleted an email, that email contained personal info, like SSN and other stuff, and a few days later she was getting messages from her credit reporting service, that credit apps were being submitted in her name.. That's how I know they don't delete anything.

*4.) .. its a FACT, not some mere made up fairy tale. Again, it's not. This is just classic rijp. He's upset that they took Yahoo's game and schooled them on it. ;*

I have friends in high places. I have family in high places. I know for 100% certainty, Google maintains a list of info, from your personal email. You don't believe me? GOOD!! I hope one day you will be lucky enough for Gmail to leak your info on the net. Then maybe you will learn.

*5.) and I am not getting into it.. Well, 'nuff said. He's completely unwilling or incapable of backing any of these claims up or responding intellectually to criticism regarding these statements. Typical of a Troll, or someone seeking to start a flamewar. This, as we all should know by now, is the main reason rijp enjoys these topics so much. He likes to start controversy.*

Good that cofee you are drinking might be doing some good. until your heart stops from all the caffeine.

I do enjoy controversy, but only because people get wrapped up in believing that these companies are just in it for free. Gmail is NOT free. Somehow somewhere, they are generating revenue from your own personal email.. Why would they want to give you 2.5 gigs of space.. for FREE!? Huh? Yeah, so they can keep gobs of info, and make it so attractive, you will give them ALL the info they need to sell it to the highest bidder.

*...and I have to admit. It's fun to watch sometimes. I just don't want his methods interfereing with actual facts. :)*

I am so glad I am entertaining.. but facts are facts. Dont' believe, they didn't believe the earth was round, they didnt' believe there were other planets, they didn't believe they could travel in space..

There is ALWAYS a first time. Google will piss someone off, and do it in grand fashion, I promise you. THEN maybe you will see, they are EVIL.

"An indepent agency"

Yeah, the Illuminati? The Knights Templar? Conspiracy theories wear thin, man.

"Yes they do. They read your email. A woman in California filed a lawsuit against Google, because she deleted an email, that email contained personal info, like SSN and other stuff, and a few days later she was getting messages from her credit reporting service, that credit apps were being submitted in her name.. That's how I know they don't delete anything."

Sorry. To many other explanations. But your bias shows clearly here. ;)

"I have friends in high places."

I too, have friends in high places. None higher, in fact. To tell the truth, I am typing this from Mars, right now. :)

"Gmail is NOT free. Somehow somewhere, they are generating revenue from your own personal email."

Targeted ads. Have you *ever* read their ToS? I strongly suggest it. They pick keywords from you email and target ads based on those keywords. All done by machine. Good stuff.

I love getting into this with you. It's like, a study in behavioral science. I'd love to believe you, man...but you just make it so damn easy to discredit.

So that "Delete Forever" button is lying?

Where's your proof?

Well, yah, your right but thats not how it should be. Some newspapers arnt as biased as others.

Yup, everytime you see those ads your unforunitally helping google make money.

That's a bad thing? If it wasn;t for ad revenue, they'd be forced to live off their stock earnings...

Only an idiot would favor M$ over Google.
Google will go down in history for ringing Microsoft's death knell!
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we all know...
the world is flat...
Hitler won't come after me...
the Titanic is unsinkable and
M$ will be relevant over the next 10 years-- ha!

You forgot about Elvis operating the 7-11, and wipe that slobber off your chin you fool!

What evidence do you have that M$ WON'T be here in 10 years?

You should replace M$ with N00gle and then your comment may be correct.

His career as a psychic is over!

GO GOOGLE.

Thanks alot for waisting room on this webpage. Your post deserves being deleted!

Oh shut up, Google.

I'm no IE fan, but Google needs to just put up or shut up. If they don't like it, they should just build their own browser. I think it's enough that they have Firefox, Safari, and Opera. Don't be so d@mn greedy.

Huh? What next? Google next lawsuit is going to be about including IE by default in Windows

Really stupid!!!

Once upon a time there was a site named Google that everyone loved and adored. Then one day they bought the internet and took over and people wear in fear of their lives, their safety, and their wallets. Sadly, all was not well on the internet, but all one could do is whisk their fears away in the comments on a certain new site. Oh me oh my what shall we do? Whimsy!

I agree. Google is focusing in law sues rather then improving their software. Since it’s Microsoft Software they can do whatever they what! As long as they put Microsoft Gadgets in it! At least Microsoft is improving, very much!!!! So Google… shut your mouth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What does Google expect? They have all but declared war on Microsoft. One can be sure that if Google designed a browser (they probably have one in alpha form already) that they would not include MSN in its search function.

I use Firefox and am all for Google... but come on - don't expect Microsoft to play nice at this stage.

IE is horrible. It's cyber capital was spent a long time ago and I will, ceteris parabis, not be returning so it's google for me. Still, if a new engine came along that wasn't MS or google, I'd be all over it. How many billions does anyone need before the don't cry over unspilled milk?

Hey FireDork, IE and Google are apples and oranges.

IE is a software, Google is a search engine. If you want to compare browsers, that's one thing, but you can't switch to google based up IE, they aren't the same league.

how many billions do we need, before you would be satisfied? Obviously Google isn't good enough for you either. What is wrong with the search engine? I doubt YOU have any ideas they could fix the problem, so you quit crying over spilled milk and quit using aged metaphors.

Hey smart guy, I was comparing MS and Google as companies more than their applications. I admit did not make that remotely clear with my hasty comment.
MS itself blew their Internet capital with me (and apparently a number of other people) by offering substandard Internet related products. Unfortunately for them, they don't have the control over the Internet market like they did with the OS attached to a PC. Unfortunately for users, Wall Street leads most companies down a path that is contrary to the business model that took them public. As has been pointed out by others in this thread, Google, should keep their eye on the ball and quit with crying. I don't much care for where I see Google heading, based on recent press releases. As such, I would gladly explore an option.
With what credentials do you make such snarky comebacks? Yeah. That's what I thought. Do me a favor and complete your sentences next time you want to interface with the thinking public.

Well that's not what you wrote, I can't read your mind, speak up boy!

substandard products? You are really looking stupid now, is that why like EVERY Fortune 500 company uses their products, because they are substandard? Is that why they took over the server market from Novell? wow, you are a genius.

Yes, google should keep their eye on the ball, but what does this have to do with MS? I don't have any credentials, but then I don't see your resume either, dumb ass. So what local community tech reform school did you try to graduate from?

I have better english skills then you will ever attain, you dweeb. You should desist from this public banter arguing with me, punk, because you are severely disadvantaged.

Yah, that certinally is not what you wrote.

Nice choice of words. lol

use a dictionary for that one?

and real nice choice of a name, really creative, im sure nobody has ever thought of something like that....

Going after someone's nick is pretty low, man. Couldn't think of anything better?

no:-( it was early....

Firefox has google by default, Opera has google by default, I'm sure Yahoo! is just sittin back in their chairs lovin every minute of this feud. We are but months away from GoogleOS, and soon, Google will own you.

Yeah. Kids, what have we said about NOT using crack?

"Not using it will severly impact your views on reality. Since reality is *not* a nice person, we strongly suggest you remain on it for the duration of your short life"

Is that what you mean?

My POV in a nutshell: Google wants to be this huge conglomerate that's communist -- google this and google that. It's M$'s damn browser, let them do whatever the heck they want with it. Anyone who uses IE7 knows that you can change your default search provider to google. My case, upon the installation if IE7, Yahoo! was set as my default search provider on startup. Besides, even saying "google" sounds like it's sexual inuendo. Now stop playing with your google.

Yeah, because only USERs lose drugs * :) *

lol

"Besides, even saying "google" sounds like it's sexual inuendo."

I'm thinking that has more to do with your age, maturity, and/or environment than the word itself, my friend.

Yah, for me, that has absolutily no sexual referance.

A day late in reporting--well, needless to say, if google threatens legal action this could be a nightmare, but so far I doubt since it is only beta. Fix it while you can, Microsoft!!!

Although--doesn't FireFox use Google as the search engine by default? Forget what I said before--Microsoft, keep it! If they sue, sue the $#@! out of Mozilla! (Just kidding...:)

This would most certinly be halarious if google turned this into a lawsuit. That would just be utterly stupid.

Google said that they would be ok with Firefox asking the user what browser to use and not defaulting to Google. This is exactly what they asked Microsoft.

Of course, it all depends on who you ask.

they would be ok only cause it wont affect their market dominance. think who is going to profit more from browsers letting you choose which search engine to use off the bat? not microsoft i can tell you that.

OH MY GOD it was so hard to add google to IE7 lets see now clicked on find more providers then clicked on google then click ok so difficult i should sue lets see now half a second of using my brain plus the 10 seconds it took me to add google thats got to worth a couple million since it is microsoft after all.

umm no newb, there is a button "customize search providers"..

You will get an entire list. you select google, keep going.. nice try, lame ass.

Dude...

I'm onna call you on this one.

The first page IE7 loads (As of the last beta I tried) contains a "find more providers" link. The wroding may not be exact, but it *is* there.

*smack*

Someone get a chair, he's getting uppity agin. ;)

You keep smacking me like that, and I just may have to keep getting out of line..

You little devil ... * :) *

lmao...

Need to get your perscription checked, man. I think they gave ya the wrong stuff.

edited

Yes the wording is exact IE7 is decent but they should have gone they same way as Opera did with their search bar.

Yah, really. My bad dude, here's your correct prescription.

Stupid Google.

Bad Google! Go sit in the corner!

Seriously... this is lame.

MS IE has *always* defaulted to MSN search. Why the hell should it pose a problem to Google now? it never has in the past...

Besides, it's MS's damn browser, they wrote it, they get to set the defaults. (When Google writes their own browser, they may feel free to do the same, you won't hear me complaining)

All this "bundling" crap is BS anyway. Yeah, I said it. Anti-trust, Monopoly...My ass.

WinAMP, AIM, Google, Firefox, all doing just *dandy* despite Microsoft's defaults and bundling. In other words, if it's worth using, it wil be used. Defaults and bundling have *never* been proven to cause a product or company to fail.

And don't even get me started with Netscape, man...

Have fun with this one guys. :)

Firefox uses google by default, if I'm not mistaken...not to mention COUNTLESS other web sites use google search and do not offer an "MSN" search. Hypocrasy? You tell me!

I assume their response would be downloading Firefox or using a website is a choice one makes, whereas IE7 will come bundled with the operating system...supposedly removing the choice form the equation.

Of course, we are then totally ignoring the fact that the first time you use the browser, at least in the last beta I tried, it told you how to change it on the first page it loads by default.

*shrug*

Bunch of whiny cry-babies if you ask me. Google just dropped a slot on my list of companies I like because of this.

Wrong sy, Conspira-c-

rijp, you should know better.

The proper way to correct that would be:

"Hypocrasy^H^Hcy"

There, fixed that for ya. ;)

(also spelled with -isy, in many instances...)

I was trying to be clever.. evidently, you didn't see that.. because it was a TAB you couldn't find..hahahaaha..

"All this "bundling" crap is BS anyway. Yeah, I said it. Anti-trust, Monopoly...My ass."

LOL, beautifully said, i must say.

"Bunch of whiny cry-babies if you ask me. Google just dropped a slot on my list of companies I like because of this. "

Your pretty lenient i must say. They dropped quite a few on my list.

TAB?

Nah, I don't drink that crap.

Wow, that was sobering..

That's like the worst soft drink ever...

They still calssify that as a soft-drink?

I thought it was on the list of banned substances in the Kyoto agreement....

Did you catch the part where they said it was ok to not choose them, just don't choose themselves (msn) over any one engine?

There is nothing wrong with a request like that.

Ive heard of that before. Dont think ive seen it in awhile at my Publix!

Wouldnt surprise me since carbonated drinks release carbon dioxide into the air (bad for the environment for those who know nothing).

"All this "bundling" crap is BS anyway. Yeah, I said it. Anti-trust, Monopoly...My ass."

Yeah, I kind of got the feeling you felt like that over the past half year. Good for you that you finally let it all out.... now we can go work on that. :)

All those web sites or firefox don't have a 90% marketshare.

holy s*** your a** is a monopoly? how does mine attain such status?

*end childishness mode*

When it's a request, fine. This looks to be more of a accusation, than a request.

i think im going to go into dodge's local development facility and tell them they had better not include any default gps unit in their car, they had better let users have a choice.

oh wait isnt vw using google earth with a custom gps for driving directions? damn....

Maybe I should start a class action against M$, G**gle & Yah** for forcing me to look at their searches first when I use their free products. After all, I find it emotionally distressing! ;-)

Would this one fly in the US? Anyone else with me? ;-)

Heck, any silly lawsuit can make a person millions in the US, its obsurd.

absurd, even....

When you install yourself Windows Vista (with boundled IE7), all your search goes through MSN by default. Why should you use other search enignes (MNS is not the worst search)?
For Google to receive something from it's searchbars, someone should find and download something googled. But 50% of users don't know that Google exists :) And 30% of users won't change MSN->Google because it is common for them to use MSN, and MSN is enough for them.
IF there weren't MSN search in IE7, users SHOULD decide what searchbox they will use.
Users searching in MSN because it's default, not because they want to use MSN.

Google SUCKS!!! I wanted to try their Gmail but I can't get an account because my cell phone doesn't receive their stupid authorization code. YAHOO! has everything I need for free and I don't need a cell phone to use it. Hotmail is my second choice. GOOGLE SUCKS!!!

roflmao...

Yeah...don't try to ask any of the billions of GMail users for an invite or anything...we all only have 100 or so of them sitting around.

Nice.

Hey, I didn't know about that and its Google's fault for not advertising that option. Well if you can invite me then invite me, all I know is that I wasn't able to get invited by Google and I think thats just bad marketing. If you want to invite me my e-mail is smanofsteel76@yahoo.com.

GMail is actually a very nice service. I have an account (I can give you one too, just ask) and I never needed a cell phone. I don't even have a cell phone. GMail loads quickly, and uses labels instead of folders, which are both useful and simple. Did I mention 2 GIGAbytes of storage space? Their spam filter needs work, but overall it's a nice email service.

Yeah, and I don't think you need an authorization code to sign up to be sent to the mobile phone..

But, its a moot point, like you said we all have 100's of invites just sitting around, and all he had to do was ask...

Besides, there again is a problem, he is blaming Google for HIS cheap a** mobile phone company (probably has pre-pay and can't get text messages) and this is a Google problem, why?

OK, 99 left.. who else needs a google account?

roflmao...

Only every forum and tech news site in the world talked about Google's GMail invites for the first 6 months they were around *at least*.

How'd you miss *that* one? Livin' on the streets for a year there, or what?

Yah, really, lol.

Yah, I have 98 left. lol

Sorry, make that about 500-600 invites left for me.

Well only because Gmail is so popular, he wants his very own spam generating, profile building, evil producing, newsletter magnet.

You know it, baby.

NO ITS NOT PREPAY, ITS A MAJOR COMPANY!!

OK, Google is growing on me....lol.

couldnt you just make a 98 new gmail accounts to yourself ant get 9800 invites?

Yes. technically.

But do you *really* have that much time to waste?

I have 3 accounts, one for SPAM, one for personal, and one I infrequently check for forum responses and such. It's almost too much with just 3.

i wish i had that much time, although i bet i could find something better to do with it. *i hope*

The real problem is monopoly bundling stuff together again. Google is right in being scared by this. Google shouldn't be scared and continue being innovating, something Microsoft cannot do anymore.

Are we going to watch again the whole Betamax vs VHS where consumers lost to marketing and lesser quality? Could be.

Google isn't innovating a thing! They buy third party software and then put their name on it and give it away free (Google Earth, Picasa, SketchUp)!! Sounds like the same thing everybody always b****es that MS does!

"Google is right in being scared by this"

BS!

Google started, surpassed, and continues to do so despite the fact that it has *never* been the default in *any* Microsoft program.

The only thing that should scare Google is that they lately seem to be focusing less on products and more on lawsuits and politics.

Yeah, but Google does it *right*

*grin*

Yeah....I'm lovin' this.

33Nick (noun) - One of the biggest idiots of all time.

*The only thing that should scare Google is that they lately seem to be focusing less on products and more on lawsuits and politics.*

OK, lets say it together.. Google is E-V-I-L!!!

E - V - olutionary!

Damn, sorry. Couldn't do it. ;)

This would be like MS suing Google for putting the Google search on the Google Desktop program. Google has issues! It's MS's software they have every right to make MSN the default search, just like Google does with their products.

Sue! Don't bother to even work this out, just Sue!

I installed Netscape, it by default, uses Google. And? You can change the settings to use Yahoo, msn, google, or some other search engine, its a damn setting.

IE 7 isn't locked to MSN search, hell! I use IE 7 and I change it search on yahoo.

And this is really pissing me off, has anyone downloaded a shareware app recently?

I have installed about a half dozen updates in the last week, I would say at least 3 include a link for installing Google Toolbar and desktop search, what is up with that? Google its ok to push software via third party companies, but its NOT ok for Microsoft to configure THEIR product for THEIR search engine? Get the **** out of here!!!

Netscape, Firefox and Opera are not owned by Microsoft, Google by default was their choice, not Microsoft's... no comparison.

Yeah, and MSN is there by choice, it just HAPPENS to be a MS company. Its not MS fault Google doesn't have a browser, otherwise I can Guarantee you they WOULD be set to Google by default.

Show me one, just one company that DOESN'T promote a partner, a subsidiary, or their own product, show me one..

This is part of business. And its not like Google has an advantage.. they are at 49%. MS is promoting their measley product, MSN search sucks anyway.. people probably change from something else as it is, so let MS include MSN in the default search.. the first time you use it, you will switch..

IE hasn't EVER been biased, its ALWAYS been default, but never restricted, so why is Google raising a stink now.. XP defaults to MSN search, why not simply issue and injunction against MS for ALL those previous OS that weren't installed.. and make them set the default to something OTHER than MSN.

I suppose MS should prompt a user; "Where would you like to go today?"

MSN
Yahoo
Google
Mamma
AltaVista
Hotbot
Excite
Alltheweb
Looksmart
NorthernLight
Alexa
About
Teoma
Snap

Then Google would complain that MSN was first on the list.. It's not going to stop no matter what MS does, Google will have a problem with it.

What about my favorte WebCrawler?

You can stop now rijp, I don't think Bill Gates is reading this...

Using their own logic, should you be able to choose who's ads appear in Google's search results? I think that their whole case is a stretch at best.

I partially agree with you. Studies show that 60% of the people who use internet don't know how to change functions like the standard search engine.
So while MS is still (unlawfully) bundling IE with Windows their should be a question while installing or at the first-time-use which search engine people like to use.

For downloaded copies of IE from the internet there wouldn't be any rules.

So MS should be sued because people are stupid and don't want to learn how to use the item they just bought, but just want to get on and start messing it up? How is that even close to right or logical?

Oh come on already. Next thing you know, JVC is going to sue GM and Ford for having the nerve to put a radio in the cars they sell...

Yeah. good one.

hahaha

While I think Google is being whiney about this, it shouldn't matter. If you visit the Google Search page with IE7 even ONCE you get a nice little popup asking you to add them to your search bar.

I still like Google and although they're being unfair, they do pay Mozilla plenty of money each year for whatever reason; so I guess the default search is "well earned". So yeah, they don't want to get shafted when IE7 arrives and I understand that; but if that's the case. Just promote Firefox on your home page or something...oh wait. :-P

I don’t know why Google is whining. Microsoft has freedom to do all it can to make sure its IE work better and faster. I am still wondering why Google is raising objections over Microsoft's plans to integrate its new search engine into Internet Explorer 7. You are a search engine, not a browser. If Google wants to help other browsers such as Firefox, Netscape, and Opera stand up, go do it now. Bill spent millions to produce this IE 7. Get your a** up and get your own. IE sends our search queries to MSN search engine. Beg other browsers to do so. And I would whole-heatedly agree with this new IE 7. But, that does not I'll kick Google aside.. I would make one point. Everyone can make her home look better and cleaner. If you think you have been treated unfairly, I do think it's a bit silly to think you were treated differently in this regard - it makes them feel special. We supported Google when you chose to fight the subpoena in court over the submitting people's search entries to US. This time, You are alone… Stop crying the spilled milk.

Nick

Not me, I have IE 7, with Yahoo! pop-up blocker, using my Dell machine, and ATI card, in a VM session running under OSX, across a Belkin WAN router, on Comcast ISP, living in rural Atlanta.

I don't get prompted for anything I don't initiate.

lmao...

Dude. You got a Dell?

lol... some dells arnt really that bad.

Personally, I like the BOSE system in mine...P

hahah. Well it's not really a popup, it's just a little message in the upper right hand corner offering to make Google your default search.

Remember the commercials?

get it now?

"Bill spent millions to produce this IE 7. Get your a** up and get your own."

We pay millions of dollars to Bill when buying copies of Windows.

Very Cool!

Whole fuss is about using monopoly in one branch of the market to gain monopoly over other branch.
Microsoft has monopoly on operatieng systems and they used it to gain monopoly over browsers, figures tell, the worst bowser IE has largest share on net, so they will use monopoly over OS and the IE which comes built in, so 70% of people will use the IE, not wanting to switch onto another browser, so they can create monopoly on search engines, because MSN is default search engine. Thats exactly what anti trust laws are all about.
If IE7, which will be bundled in next windows OS, dont have MSN default, and downloadable version has, its ok, but...

BS.

Firefox is doing just fine despite not having been around before Win95.

Need more?

WinAMP is doing beautifully.
AIM is kicking MSN's a** all over the place.
Google schooled MSN search.

...all despite having MS equivelants or defaults bundled to the OS.

Give me one, just one, example where MS bundling killed a product.

Your point being?

IE killing Netscape :P