...

"It was only afterward that I realized how crazy that was. Google filtered through 3.9 million possible pages with the words 'Merit' and 'DVD' on them, and got me exactly what I wanted. And I just took it for granted."

...

Yeah, Google ~is~ great !

MSN Search and Yahoo Search and the others are falling behind simply because they're not as good.

America is a wonderful country because we have competition and the cream rises to the top.

Europe has a stagnant economy because it's over-regulated and has, basically, a Soviet economic model.

A little tweaking of the U.S. patent system and copyright laws, and America would utterly obliterate the Euro-Socialists !
...

The Computer Rodent

...

One time I needed to buy some DVD-R's from Merit, so I went to Google and typed "Merit DVD." Sure enough, Merit was at the top of the list, and I bought my DVD-R's. It was only afterward that I realized how crazy that was. Google filtered through 3.9 million possible pages with the words "Merit" and "DVD" on them, and got me exactly what I wanted. And I just took it for granted.

The article states that vista and IE7 will furthur help M$ compete agianst google search engine. How so? Would Vista have a built in search engine, that's till not a good comeback. People will still choose google's search engine over msn or live because it produces better result.

Uncle Sam isn't helping out eithier, they need to butt out and respect our privacy. Yahoo and MSN needs to fight agianst this. But then again, how many people know that big brother is watching them?

I use Google cause they didn't drop down to Uncle Sam. I honestly changed my start page from yahoo to google ONLY because of this. I then realized how much better the results from google were.

Quite honestly, I won't be going to anyone else anytime soon.

This report by Comdata lacks some analysis.

Note that last January, MSN Search relaunched. It was followed by a advertising campaign somewhere north of $100M, powered by some Superbowl advertising. Comparing that boost to a regular month is a bit misleading.

That said, the boost obviously didn't last.

Additionally, the stated goal of MSN Search first and foremost was to reach the majority of MSN users which used MSN Search and ALSO used another search engine. MSN wanted to shrink that number, and keep them in MSN territory. The fact that MSN's search query volume continues to rise rather quickly (30% y/y; higher than Y! or G) is a testament to the fact that those who are using MSN Search appear to be happy and return more frequently.

Paul,
Mincing numbers is not going to change the facts. MSN and their marketing folks keep pointing to these "search query volume" numbers -- however in the end, whats important is the number of users visiting the site. In turn, this is helping Google sell more advertising.

Advertisers don't care about those numbers, they want to get their word out to the most people. And, increasingly, that choice is Google. While Live may help -- I'm very skeptical that it would cause enough of a fundemental s*** in people's search habits that they would drop the big G.

It is no wonder that google have the largest market share. It's simply because they have the technology upperhand and have built a product that is FAST and RELEVANT.

MS has to answer google on 3 levels:
* Their engineers should have the freedom to hack MS Server just as Google have modified the linux os to optimise search querys.
* They should custom assemble their hardware so that there is a direct link between os and hardware which the engineers can understand and optimize
* They should actively recruit PHD employees and keep them as researchers to help them stay on the cutting edge.

I know a person who was employed by MSN search recently and although he is a guru in the C++ field, I really believe that instead of getting commercial programmers, they need specialised academics who are totally focussed on one thing, search and optimisation. The thing I admire about google is that they totally focus on the product and its quality and the money comes afterwards, almost as an afterthought. I think with MS culture, it is the other way around.

You are right MS concentrates in 2 things. First, Make Money and How to use their resources to keep competitors out. Unfortunately, this way of thinking has created a Microsoft that doesn’t innovate any more, but instead copies the innovators. Years ago they were the innovators, now it has become so big that they cannot even keep up with their release days…. :P Google on the other hand concentrates in creating a good product and get as many bugs out as they can. After they have workout the problems they see how the money will be made. The only software I like from MSN is messenger, but I recently try the messenger live 8 and still I was not impressed. If they don’t do something they will start slipping until it is too late.

Contrary to popular belief, the MS strategy is NOT to destroy competitors, that is just business in general. The beat the other guy, that's simple business, period.

You make it sound like their sole intent is to discredit the competitor and do nothing else except concentrate on how to destroy the close competitor, and you would be wrong. Its part of doing business, but its not the CENTRAL focus of business.

You are in business to make money, that's true. But give me one company that DOESN'T want to be the best in their market? That's why you go into business in the first place, so what exactly is the problem with MS business model?

I know what your perspective is, its jealousy. Everytime a post like this comes up, its nothing more than simple minded jealously.

MS is a cash cow, they make their investors happy, and the continue to be sucessful. Well HELL the F#$K O!! That's what being in business is all about. What do you expect?

First, MS doesn't have to answer google. MS puts together products that work well together, but they don't have to compete with search engines.

They make money regardless.. they have the first contact with every customer. How about google has to play catch up? Ever think of that?

When you buy a PC, what OS are you getting? Google desktop? A search engine? A web thin client? Notes desktop? NO.. its MS OS. Right then and there, that's more money in MS pocket.

If that customer does nothing else, MS has the advantage.

Google their only product so far is search. Email you say? HA! Fools, they are attracting you to do what.. build a profile, for what? Searching and determing things that you desire and therefore you subscribe to via email.. its the perfect spy engine.

Why do you think they give you gobs of space, so they can entice to keep your gmail. Then using your gmail, you get emails constant and consistent. They know when, how often, how many, and content of EVERY email. Ads that appear in those emails, you think its coincidence they follow your email content? HA! fools.. they planned it that way..

Its their version of a door to door sales person, except its more refined.

google is trying to build a profile, sell it to the highest bidder, to track your every movement, that's how they make money.

Don't believe me? You are blind. Google is evil, and sneaky and underhanded.

Google has not modified linux OS to optimize search query's where did you hear that? That's not even possible. Search Queries are WEB based, not computer based.

Actively recruit PHD, gee is that so MS can undermine their own product, every heard of ActiveX? They sell programming tools, C++, VB, SQL Server, so why would they want to give money to a competitor? I think not. They have their own products...

MSN isn't a MS company, its OWNED by MS, but its a subsidiary.... They aren't a part of MS anymore than Jaguar is a Ford Product. They make their own products, but they aren't branded the same way.. Its more money making.

MSN is a separate company, has been for years.. why do you think its MS-NBC.. MSN was a network, but it was owned by NBC at one time, and they included the MS to give them (guess what) more advantage with the name.

Its the same strategy NFL teams use to endorse their products, players are their best advertisement.. MS is the best advertising dollar a company can co-own.. It will get you noticed.

MS doesn't even make half their games, they are someone else's programming, but they seek MS out to promote and distribute.. to (guess what again) make money! Wow, novel concept.

Free enterprise, you should take a class in economics.. This is all very well documented..

MS is following the same ideology as another huge company.. IBM, I don't suppose you heard of them? All these same arguments, plans, and anti-trust problems plagued IBM as well.. but that was 40 years ago.. do some research.

"but they don't have to compete with search engines."

According to their own comments regarding their online presence...even MS seems to disagree with you about that one.

"How about google has to play catch up?"

Um...they dominate the search industry. They've no-one else to catch up to. (Google 42%, MSN 13.5%, Your beloved Yahoo 27.6, which is actually quite good comparatively)

"Search Queries are WEB based, not computer based."

Dude...Wow. That's just wrong. Aside from the fact that you are searching a cache on Googles Server's, and not the "actual" web, what *is* the web made up of again? Computers? huh...

But I digress. You're blind animosity towards a certain company is more telling than anything. I don't need to argue it, you've made it perfectly clear how your comments regarding Google simply can't be taken seriously.

No doubt MS is still quite a large and profitable company and will continue to dominate for a long time. They have also shown, that they do monitor market trends and respond to competetive threats (albeit a bit late sometimes).
But Google also have proved a thing or two about the IT business.. the welknown fact that a company is only as good as its employees and if it can sihpon off the top 5% programmers in the industry, it is bound to have the talent to create materpieces. Only gross mismangement can undermine this principle.

What I really admire about Google is their complete belief in their own ability and their lack of reliance on any third party tools.. whatever they need, they can hack (and make better in the process).

Also the very emergence of Google has signalled something really important, the growing maturity of the Open Source market.

-Um...they dominate the search industry. -

Yes, the SEARCH industry, they can't very well dominate something, until a user has a product to do the searching.. I said catchup, meaning they have to do something to enable a revenue generating income.. a la Windows. Google doesn't have an OS (yet). So they ARE playing catchup, not in their niche, just catchup with revenue.

-"Search Queries are WEB based, not computer based."-

Dude...Wow. That's just wrong. Aside from the fact that you are searching a cache on Googles Server's, and not the "actual" web, what *is* the web made up of again? Computers? huh... -

No you wow umm.. *DUDE* (what is this, an Ashton Kutchner movie?). Its not wrong, are you searching based on software, or does it send a query to the google search for HOW to search for stuff? So if today, your machine searches for data, tomorrow that data is updated on the web, the client may run on the machine, but the results are based upon the WEB queries. I am not talking stricly searching your computer, I am talking about WEB queries.

I know the desktop engine has an index of every file..

Blind animosity. Interesting. So you like Google, but its *OK* to blast MS at every turn.. wow.. OK. Gee, how very hypocritical of you. How nice.

Google spy's on you. That's a fact. You people condone what they do, and what's more, you applaude it.. I find that fascinating.

OH wait, if this were a MS product, I guess THEN it would be evil, is that it?

I think you are blinded by the fact that its a revolutionary product, as long as it has nothing to do with MS. That is amazing.

Its clear your comments are just siding with whatever is appropriate, as long as its NOT MS.

Its not animosity, I don't hate Google, well I do, but its not hate for the people, their procedures are questionable.

Its obvious you are not interested in the truth, only in what you perceive. that's fine.

It doesn't bother me.

"Google has not modified linux OS to optimize search query's where did you hear that? That's not even possible. Search Queries are WEB based, not computer based."

see: http://www.internetnews....xSP/article.php/3487041

"So you like Google, but its *OK* to blast MS at every turn."

I don't. How very un-observant of you. back to the topic, eh?

"Its not wrong, are you searching based on software, or does it send a query to the google search for HOW to search for stuff?"

perhaps you don't understand what the parent was trying to convey...

He states the possibility exists for Google to optimize the way their site returns results by optimizing the build of the OS and the hardware it runs on.

This is quite possible, IMO. The search engine does not search "The Web", it searches a constantly updated database. your browser sends the query to Google's server, Google runs it through their database and then returns the results to you. How could this *not* be optimized by building DB specific optimizations into their Server OS or hardware?

Your internal OS and computer knowledge astounds me. Search queries are part of the front-layer. Google probably has servers that take your queries and turn them into less-bloated useful commands the rest of their server network can understand and process quicker.

I hate IE. IMHO MS is an extremely evil corporation for letting loose spyware and viruses on millions of users, and reaping billions in profit from it. At least with google they won't force subpar software on me or do nasty stuff with my information.

I love windows, but integrating IE into windows has been an exceptionally damaging and lucrative thing that has resulted in the employment of hundreds of thousands of people. I don't care about WMP or any other MS programs. IE/OE are my beef.

Where to even start...

One, Google does not want to have an operating system, nor do they need one. If you've been keeping up with the latest news relating to them, you'd know they want to do everything in the browser, including word processing and data storage. And as for your comment that new computer users see MS products first, perhaps you missed the current negotiations between Google and Dell to include the Google Toolbar on their computers(Dell is also testing Firefox as the default browser in other countries right now as well). In the future, as soon as you open IE, or possibly Firefox, you'll see that Google Toolbar right there.

As for your comments on MSN, where did you get that stuff? Out of your ass? MSN was never owned by NBC, it was launched in 1995 by Microsoft and has always been wholly owned by it. MSNBC is simply a deal where MS paid NBC for a 50% stake in the network to tie in MSN in their television content. See "History" here for more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSNBC

Your analogy between MS and MSN and Ford and Jag is rather off base and faulty as well. Saying it's simply a subsidiary is like saying Office is simply a subsidiary. MSN is part of Microsoft's overall strategy to be in many different consumer technology markets. MSN is a product, not a company. Xbox is a product. These products all get Microsoft into many different markets and give them the ability to offer many different services. It's different than just an additional revenue stream like Jag is to Ford.

You seem to misunderstand the strategies of both Microsoft and Google. While the objective in the end is to bring in revenue, the strategy is not to just offer a bunch of products that don't relate much to eachother in the way a conglomerate does. It's to offer a suite, a family of products that all tie into each other. Microsoft's strategy is to get your operating system, web, and entertainment experiences to all be tied together. Hence Windows, Outlook, Office, MSN and Windows Live, Windows Media Center and Xbox. Google's strategy is to get you to have no need for those things and let you do everything you want to do in your browser. Hence Search, Gmail, Google Calendar, Google News, upcoming Office-like products, Gdrive, Blogger and Google Video. These allow you to skip all those things MS offers and let you do it all from your browser. This is how they compete, by trying to make their platform the best platform, not by trying to simply offering different brands of the same products the way Ford competes with Chevy.

rijp, you make me laugh! :)

At least that's good about reading your lines, because after getting your position well minimized by every other user, you cannot even sustain the debate. :) Keep it up! I know many people who try what you do here...

On the other hand, if MS is so worried about Google (MSN search renewed to gain "search market share", executives moving from MS to Google and then getting sued; Windows Vista to include the MSN search features by default, etc), then I feel that I don't have the whole story: how much the "search market share" can deliver in revenue... is it because of the adds?

nah, it's because of the ads. ;P

I agree with your comment about google spying on us. But I also agree that every other search engine is doing (or will do) the same. Google just takes it to another level. They want to know everything about you...

Having said that I use google all the time. I only use it as a search engine, Yahoo for email, and Windows for my OS. I think that it isn't smart to rely on google for everything and it will make a lot of people sorry that they did...eventually.

To be blunt, it is simply the best. Until something better comes along, it will be difficult to top.

Unfortunately, come Vista, with MSN Desktop Search built in, "Better" will have little relevancy.

of course, that's assuming Google is "Better" than MSN....and I really don't want to get into that.

First of all, Vista is over a year away.

Secondly are you implying that just because MSN DS is included with the OS, that people will forget how to use the internet?

Third, if Google maintains its dominance, people will be using it, and will keep their shortcuts to it, and will ignore the built in functinality of the OS.

This is what got MS in trouble in the first place, because people like you suggested they include a utility with the OS at release, so you won't have to download it, but then years later, like the other guy said, something better comes along, and BAM! MS gets in trouble because its boxed with their product and it becomes Anti-trust fodder.

This is the SAME EXACT case that happened with IE... So you are fueling the fire for EXACTLY what MS was trying to do, appease their customers, except the competitors feel its unfair...

Yep. You are just posting to argue with me.

"because people like you suggested they include a utility with the OS at release, so you won't have to download it, but then years later, like the other guy said, something better comes along, and BAM! MS gets in trouble because its boxed with their product and it becomes Anti-trust fodder."

Have you actually seen any of my comments in other threads regarding the Anti-Trust BS going on with MS right now?

I actually don't have a problem with them putting it in their OS. Didn't have a problem with them putting IE or WMP in there either.

C'mon man... I've posted those opinions before...even on Betanews. If it's online, *anyone* can access it, that makes it common knowledge...right?

So what exactly is your beef? I was pointing out that when people make a suggestion, MS takes it to heart. Then later some other people complain that's its unfairly situated as a competitor tool.

And pardon me, but I don't search for every post that everyone does, and keep track of every comment. I don't have googledesktop (betanews version) for the web on my computer..

So what exactly does this have to do with arguing against your point? I think you have had one ti many martooni's...

do you both realize your posts have nothing to do with google anymore ....

That last bit...about it being online and thus common knowledge...that was a joke. Referencing a post you made in the other thread about how the internet makes everyone smarter about buying computers. ;)

Settle...settle....

yeah. I suppose we should shut-up and go home now.... this will eb the second thread we've ruined today.

*grin*

Hey! You made a post that didn't get modded down! good job! ;P

lol

ahHAHahHA I get neg. rep for my post but the guy that posted that porn link didnt get squat .....
ahHAHahHAhah
pfffffffffffffffffff

Wow. I really hope people like you don't vote.