why are all the H1-B visa holders all from 3rd world sh*tholes?? You never see them bringing over more white people from Western Europe. It's always more Indians or Negros from Africa.. This is Communism.. Screw America and it's heritage.. Let's make America more destroyed by DIEversity.......

"why are all the H1-B visa holders all from 3rd world sh*tholes??"

LOL ... don't you think you should think twice before you are calling anyone sh'tholes .... guess the world does not think them to be one .... ignorance is really a bliss :) ....

Totally agree... You know once lots of Eastern Europeans and Russians came in States. But now situation changed - these countries now improved life quality for their people and now no one want to leave.

Only people from problematic countries - India, Africa, Palestine, etc... will come....

Think USA repeating UK/France mistake to invite as many people as possible. I think it must be some balance, otherwise immigrants culture will destroy host-country culture. This is what happened in UK - come to London, guess what is the national food now? Indian curry.... :))))

it's called communism. the goal is to destroy the host country's culture and make all white nations, brown. and that's a damn fact!!

you look at EVERY white based nation on the planet, and some sort of multi-race diversity scheme is in place.. and you lookup who is always pushing diversity and multiculturalism.. it's always the jews or their enablers.

and India is a sh*thole. that country has only evolved because the jew owned banks and corporations are decisively relocating the wealth of white based nations to sh*tholes because the jew knows that if whites become unified and see what's really going on, another Hitler will emerge only to finish what should have been done in WWII.

google how many times Jews have been thrown out of past countries due to their practices.. it's happened quite alot..

So if the person is not a white and can contribute to society they still are not welcome, thats nice. I normally am against more people coming I am also against racist beliefs too. If you are saying that if you are not white you are not welcome you need to wake up. That type of mentality needs to go away. There are many no white people that are better people than some whites that I know.

Your comments about Jews and Hitler have obsoletely no place here or any other place. Take your hate someplace else.

You do realize that the guys from 'problematic' India live like Pasha's on IT salaries and have a quality of life at home you will never achieve in your wildest dreams?

Is it about time yet to call you out as a fascist Nazi swine?

That would actually do you dumb a** honor since there were/are some quite clever Germans. It's probably pointless but how about reading up on Indian history and culture which was at astonishing levels while your ancestors were still sitting on trees.

Jump off a high bridge.

Preferably one that no longer has water beneath it.

Wow, what does it take to get modded down here?

A complaint usually, or an insult directed at the story author.

I really don't think anyone gives enough about this guy or his posts to take the time.

[rolleyes]

Pure genius, man.

Let me get some popcorn and come back. I'm sure whatever you do next will be *just* as entertaining.

You are a f* moron, I swear to god. A close-minded, uneducated, ignorant "cube". Can you be any more white trash? Friggin racist scum.

Here's an idea btw, join the local KKK fan-club, you'll dig up a lot of people like yourself there.

Retard.

LOL all i can say is Ignorance is indeed a bliss ( for some un-educated literates :-) ). By the way google for communism to understand what is communism and which countries actually have communism :-)

By the way coming back to the point , isn't it a brain drain in a way for the US if students getting education there are finally going to some other countries to work where there is no "fixed quota" for visas ?

Ever been diagnosed with Tourette's Syndrome?

Looks like your a shoe-in.

you're a f**king liberal douchbag that's too damn dumbed down to know what's going on. Most of the people that have commented negatively about my comments are too stupid to know what's really going on.. Drinking their floride laced water and eating their neurotoxin sweetened foods with Aspartame, which destroys brain tissue.

Racism is natural. all other animals on this planet discriminate, but stupid people like yourself have bought into the communist lie that racism is Baaaaad.. F**k you and the rest of you judeo a**clowns who are can't smell the sh*t on your own knees..

The unemployment rate is at or near an all time high, yet instead of hiring Americans we continue to offshore or bring over people that work for less than 1/2 what we make here.

I know about 100 people that are about to lose their jobs to offshore. Bringing over more H1Bs is just going to push us further into recession, as the unemployment rate climbs.

Yet, people like Bill Gates and co continue to make false claims that there aren't enough IT people here, and push for cheaper offshore labor.

I know a whole team of Windows developers that need work Mr. Gates, how about hiring them?

Thanks.

The unemployment rate is at or near an all time high

Really? Did you bother to check your facts first? http://en.wikipedia.org/...ent_rates_1950_2005.png

We are at approximately 5.1% unemployment, which is around where we've been since 2005 (4.8% - 5.1%).

These H-1Bs apply to the 2009 fiscal year, which doesn't even start for 6 months. The job market might be entirely different by then, so comparing it to the current job market is irrelevant.

The real unemployment rate in the US is more like 7 to 10%.

Who cares when the H1Bs start, we don't need them.

'nuff said

, yet instead of hiring Americans we continue to offshore or bring over people that work for less than 1/2 what we make here.

How skilled are these Americans vs. the offshore workers? Most of these H1-B's as I understand it, are given to those who are highly qualified in their field.

I know about 100 people that are about to lose their jobs to offshore.

Where? How?

Yet, people like Bill Gates and co continue to make false claims that there aren't enough IT people here,

Korea, Seoul, China, Hell, damn near *any* Asian country is creating a *huge* surplus of skilled, technical, specialized IT professionals. These guys were raised working in UNIX and spent their free-time setting up MUDS, back before MMORPGS existed.

You're trying to tell me we're making *more*? They have schools over there pumping out what *we* would consider a "Masters degree in Comp-Sci" in under 2 years. They are more skilled, more focused, more qualified, and don't suffer from the latest trends in the "American" work ethic.

Look, I *wish* we could compete in this field. Our ability to create world-class specialists in *any* field has been suffering for a *long* time. Our education system is hosed. Until we fix it, we're screwed. H1-B's aren't the problem here, at least, not the root.

5.1%

http://www.bls.gov/

*laughs*

Oh, that's right, the link I posted leads to an "imagined" unemployment rate. Care to link us to the "real" one?

I disagree. Respectfully, of course.

If we want the best *now*, we have to pull form outside the US. If we want the best to be from *within* the US in the future we need to fix our education system, and for that to happen, we need to fix parents (not in a medical, ability to procreate sense people...well, maybe some of them).

The US has a plethora of average skilled, average motivated, average qualified workers who value their own personal desires above all else. There is no burgeoning pool of exceptionally talented, specialized, "leaders in their field" within the US anymore. We lost that to the East decades ago.

I can't say where or how for obvious reasons. I will state that they are very highly skilled Windows Developers, and Systems Administrators their jobs are being eliminate as a cost savings measure by multiple large corporations.

I agree H1B is not the problem, but it's also not the solution. Until we get our unemployment rate in the states down to a reasonable level we need to completely halt offshoring and H1Bs.

I couldn't care less about technical people in other nations. My concern is for my country, where people that I know personally are losing their s***s while the executives at companies laying them off are getting fatter every day.

It's all about companies saving money and increasing profits and the cost is folks like you and me becoming homeless because wages for skilled American workers are being driven to unrealistic lows.

It's sad.

Until we get our unemployment rate in the states down to a reasonable level we need to completely halt offshoring and H1Bs.

At the expense of us willing to compete globally in technology because we are hiring the less skilled workers? Too a point, I agree, with the sentiment, at least. But I don't think forcing companies to hire under-qualified (or not the most qualified) people they can is the answer either.

I couldn't care less about technical people in other nations. My concern is for my country, where people that I know personally are losing their s***s while the executives at companies laying them off are getting fatter every day.

You said the jobs were being eliminated. This does not imply that they are being replaced, merely that the positions are ceasing to exist. Just a thought, but glancing at the paper, I can point out about a dozen (at least) IT jobs. That's not counting Monster, our local job-web, etc...and only one day (Not even the weekend edition, which is far larger). I'm not saying that this is the case where you are, but I cannot believe, when I see this every day, that the jobs simply aren't out there.

It's all about companies saving money and increasing profits

That's the point.

and the cost is folks like you and me becoming homeless

For one, I doubt they are "becoming homeless". If there really are no IT jobs in the area, move, or look for another line of work that is hiring in that area. The *only* excuse for homelessness for a skilled worker is a desire to be, or a complete and utter lack of any effort or involvement in one's own life.

because wages for skilled American workers are being driven to unrealistic lows.

Welcome to the global economy. Would we be better off retreating once again into isolationism? (Surprisingly, I don't have an answer to that one myself.)

Dunno, man. I've been jobless. It sucks, but it is definitely not insurmountable to anyone remotely skilled. Sure, I had to do Data Entry for half a year to get by. I even had to "temp". It sucked, no doubt about it. But I certainly was in no danger of becoming homeless unless I simply stopped looking for work.

I'm just sayin, sure they will all eventually find jobs but their companies which they gave sweat and blood too for many years just tossed them aside for an extra dollar.

It just makes my blood boil.

Ideally, yeah I agree that we need highly skilled workers to compete in a global economy. Experience tells me that we aren't improving skillsets by H1B and offshore, we are just getting the same or less for cheaper.

It's not about hire American. It's all about hire the most qualify person. American on education is well behind most countries in the world. Maybe we should start educate our youth with books instead of television and video games?

That's not true at all, it's all about hiring the closest to best for the least. This means replacing qualified people with "good enough, and less expensive".

It's the better faster cheaper triangle, only used on people.

Experience tells me that we aren't improving skillsets by H1B and offshore, we are just getting the same or less for cheaper.

Would love to know the companies you are working for. That doesn't make any business sense. (Assuming less skill = less productivity, more hours, etc... the "savings" in lower wages can't offset missed deadlines)

How does it fit the triangle?

They're less skilled, by your account, so would they not be worse and slower?

Makes no business sense.

Cheaper doesn't seem to offset that unless you can hire 2 to do the job of one for less, but then you need add increased administrative costs, and all of the costs associated wages that "salary" doesn't cover (benefits, unemployment insurance, worker's comp insurance, etc)...

"The unemployment rate is at or near an all time high, yet instead of hiring Americans we continue to offshore or bring over people that work for less than 1/2 what we make here."

There’s certainly nothing wrong with market forces at work. Although from your statement, I deduce that you are probably a bit left of center when it comes to such things and would rather the gov't "protect" people by allowing them to continue with their heads in the sand while other nations people get smarter and more marketable. Isolationism has never worked and is even more dangerous today when we truly are part of a GLOBAL economy. Better to face up to the fact and keep yourself ahead of the curve than to hope that you don’t get off-shored. The government certainly isn’t going to help (nor should it).

As for the unemployment rate, 5.1% is NOT EVEN CLOSE TO AN ALL TIME HIGH!!!! In 1982, it peaked at nearly 11% and has been in a range of 4%-6% for more than a decade. In fact 4% (only 1% less than we have now) is almost considered full-employment since there will always be a segment of the working-age population that either refuse to or cannot work.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/home.htm

Quality is irrelevant. Its costs that matter the most. You should know this since you are, after all, pro capitalistic exploitation. Those who are on H-1B visas work for a fraction of what a qualified American would earn.

Its not surprising that those, like tool, are so anti-American. They hate their own people so much.

Nope. They don't count those whose unemployment insurance has run and and who still haven't found a job and thus this makes the REAL rate much higher than your "official" rate. The same as with graduations from high schools when they were claiming a 91% graduation rate they didn't count those who had dropped out of HS (around a third of the total.). This means that it was 91% of 2/3rds which is only around a 60% REAL graduation rate. This corrected number has recently come out as well. Canada uses a similar educational system and ranks 4th in the world while the US ranks 18th.

But than again you are a tool and can never actually be anything else.

Uhh, 0% is considered full employment. Anything more than that isn't.

Basic math: 400 unemployed out of 10,000 (4%) is greater than zero, but maybe you should get an H1B to do math for you so you don't have to worry with having math skills.

As for left, no I'm not asking for government welfare. I'm saying we need regulation. There's a significant difference, but only those not on the far right profiting from it would "get" that.

Where's the urgency to fix our internal problems if we can just get it somewhere else for cheaper.

Thanks.

heh

They don't count those whose unemployment insurance has run and and who still haven't found a job and thus this makes the REAL rate much higher than your "official" rate.

This, btw...for those just joining us, is pure BS. sjc001, once again, is pulling utter fantasy out of his a** for your entertainment.

But than again you are a tool and can never actually be anything else.

Yeah, that's much better than actually backing up your absurd statements.

Notice how all of us claiming a 5.1% unemployment rate quoted and linked to sources?

Try it sometime.

*yawn*

"Quality is irrelevant."

This is classic. You have once again proven your lack of knowledge.

Its not surprising that those, like tool, are so anti-American. They hate their own people so much.

*laughing*

Me. Anti-American. Yeah.... You don't read any of my posts, do you? You pick one or two keywords and google for insults, right?

Gotta be. Anyone who'd actually read any of my posts would be rolling on the floor after that comment.

Yes, you truly hate your fellow Americans. I feel sorry for you. You support the corporate over real people every time.

You poor retarded troll.. You probably think that Bush is one of the best presidents ever as well.

You should know better than to trust the "official" version, especially under the Bush administration. It doesn't show the entire truth. But than again you are retarded.

"Those who are on H-1B visas work for a fraction of what a qualified American would earn."

I don't know where you get this number from. H-1B get pay as much as the American counter part. Your salary is base on how good your negotiation skill is. I cannot say about small company, but bigger company has salary range. For example, an associates pay range is 55k to 80k, if you want to hire an associates for 90k, you cannot. You either don't hire him or put him in a high rank. Same thing apply when you try to hire a VP and want to pay him an AVP salary. You just can't do that.

Still laughing at you.

...just like everyone else.

*yawn*

It gets old.

You make some asinine claim. Someone, if not myself, others, post links citing *real* numbers with *real* sources. You respond with childish insults...

You have to support the corporate or there would be jobs for the people. Keep taxing and penalizing the companies and they will go else where. Some people need to learn that without the corporate there is nothing for the people.

On the contrary mon frere, 3-4% *is* actually close to full employment which most economists define in laymans terms as "anyone who wants a job can get a job"... and no, that doesn't necessarily mean that someone out-of-work can immediately get another job at the same level, salary, etc. but that they can actually get a job.

BTW... it's called competition... if we can cheaper labor at the same or better level from elsewhere then we will. The answer is not more regulation at all - the gov't can't manage its way out of a paper bag so what makes you think they would do anything to improve the situation? It's a global economy - either get on the train, improve yourself, or just get run over... it may not be pretty, but survival of the fittest is the natural order of things.

Now you might be onto something in getting someone with an H1B to do math for me might be a good idea as that will give me some extra time to learn/do something more important. You know, like giving Economics 101 and research lessons to isolationist leftists who obviously don't even know how to use Google to provide facts to support their misguided and antiquated arguments.

Windoze Veesta... Built by H1B employees!

Under US leadership.

That pretty much sucks. From a completely economic standpoint, international students must infuse the economy since they generally start out with nothing....they come here and pay it all out for their education (at a rate of more than 100% per credit vs. resident and non resident students) and have to buy food and supplies and sometimes rent their own housing vs. stay with relatives. Those who wish to stay would obviously be an asset to the countries' workforce (as they work very hard to graduate and then to convince employers to 'sponsor' them) Generally people who want H1Bs are willing live here for the long run, make families (if they don't already have one) and maybe even ask for citizenship.

From an ethical standpoint, it's horrible that these people go to school here, spend all that money, then either 1. work here for a while hoping to stay and now can't, worse case scenerio having to pack up and go because their visa has/is expiring and can't be renewed or 2. hope to work here after leaving school and can't because now their school can't place them because of the shortage/cap on h1bs.

I'm not very spiritual nor am I superstitious, but on any level (economic/ethical) this seems like bad Karma for our economy. If these people are willing to come here, kick butt enough in school to graduate and then work hard enough that their employers want to hire them permanently...they should be able to stay.
Foreign students don't create a shortage of jobs for natural born Americans - lazy Americans, the abundance of illegal immigrants willing to work for $2 where an American wants $10 and companies that want top line profits (and so, outsource in order to get it) are to blame.

Spot on Neoprimal, as an International student who has spent 5 yrs. of my life in the US its such as shame that the country that gave me my education will not be utilizing it and will be forcing me to go back and utilize it to compete against Americans.

yeah, but in the same respect there are plenty of Americans who need those jobs which don't have any other home country to go to and live.

Spot on ThaCHEESE.

Two sides to every story.

Spend what money here? Most of international students I know (graduate) are here on full ride. US spends money on them. Now THAT'S horrible karma for the economy.

That's true. Many of these companies that abused the H-1B program where hiring foreign professionals (Insourcing) that would work for a fraction of the pay an American could get and these same companies claimed that there were no qualified Americans to fill the jobs either. What they meant is that there are no Americans who would take the jobs at next to nothing in pay.

In any case, the most probable outcome is that most of the work will be outsourced if they can't have the workforce in USA. India anyone?

Actually, foreign college students get more of a subsidy from US tax-victims than US students do. "Tuition at public universities has risen an unprecedented 51% over the last 5 years... A Duke University spokesman said that 40% of Duke's engineering graduates cannot get engineering jobs." "26% of the tuition of these foreign students is paid by the schools they attend", and tuition and fees typically cover 25% to 33% of costs.
http://www.kermitrose.com/econ200712.html#20071228
http://www.kermitrose.com/econ200802.html#20080205

Yes, it's not surprising that many guest-workers make use of anchor babies, or turn into "visa over-stay" illegal aliens.

Yes, it's horrible that the government gives out excessive numbers of visas of all kinds -- E, F, H, J, L, and even O. But the student visas are especially problematic. They've suppressed the graduate assistantship stipends and opportunities and pay for PhDs to such an extent that the direct and opportunity costs for a US citizen to earn a PhD exceed the increased employment stability and compensation over the rest of their life-times.

That's not entirely logical....how does a foreigner come here and 'take' a job from anyone? Or is it a case where they're more qualified and educated and so, deserve the job? I believe that if you work hard, you should get what you deserve. They come here, they work hard, they graduate, they should be able to work here and make a life here.

There are some Americans that want everything to fall into their laps. They drop out of high school or college and then expect to beat everyone else out because guess what? They were born here. They then get into a hissyfit and start crying 'my America my America' because someone from another country was willing to FINISH high school and GRADUATE university in order to work and make a life here. That's not right, imo. America was built on diversity. You can't just say, ok, enough foreigners are here, we're self sustained now - no thanks, we don't want any more of you...it's not right.

That's capitalism at its finest, no? You can't build a 'wealthy' society on an ideal and then throw it out later when the mechanics turn against you.

Why exactly will foreign professionals work for a fraction of the pay an American could get? Especially when you consider that they're living here now? Cost of living different between Americans and foreigners?

I don't want to argue but all these 'negatives' just don't make sense to me. Who's fault is it that Americans don't want these jobs at the salaries the companies are willing to pay the foreigners? It sounds like an excuse to me, an excuse made by greedy Americans.

If my foreign competitor is willing to take 50,000 in a position that 'typically' offers 60 or 70 to me, is it impossible to find an American willing to take 50,000 for it? If I said I'd take it, wouldn't they give it to me? Better yet, lets just say for arguments sake that I'm not working because I have to, just because I WANT to, so I tell them, I'll take 45,000 for it - would they not give it to me? So then, in that light if I turn down that $50,000 for any reason, why would I then turn around and blame the foreigner for getting the position?

I don't get it.

I recently read several reports designed for companies wanting to sponsor an H-1B candidate - and the companies have learned they need to triple check everything their paperwork for each H-1B candidate.

Last month, Bill Gates pleaded with Congress to get extensions on all foreign scientists and engineers here on an H-1B visa, but I am not entirely sure if the government is going to be willing to listen. I think it's silly to educate someone in engineering or math at a U.S. university just to send him home, especially at a time when we need these people to work here.

IT did not take one week to meet the quota. USCIS decided to accept applications for first 5 business days regardless of how many they might have received the first day which by any guess would have been more than 65K + 20K. This is why at the end of 5 day period that USCIS was accepting applications it received more than the cap and hence will be conducting a lottery.

"especially at a time when we need these people to work here."

Didn't the unemployment rate in the US just hit 5.2% and is expected to continue to grow? Didn't the US just shed over 300 thousand jobs in the past two months? US citizens want these jobs...the more non-citizens that take up jobs, the less jobs US citizens get. I have nothing against immigrants...but I also think there's nothing "silly" about freeing up local jobs to local citizens....especially at a time when our economy is going to be doing nothing but shedding jobs for the near future.

Including those who have had their unemployment insurance run out (They don't count these people in the unemployment rate), and they still can't find a job, that would be closer to 7 to 10% unemployment in the US under Bush.

No one ever reports that, that is, once you're off the unemployment list, as far the government is concerned, you're no longer unemployed, whether are still seeking work or not.

I couldn't tell you how many friends I have, with Master Degrees no less, who’ve recently visited the employment line. Entire MIS departments have been off-shored, while consumer prices from those very same companies rise, and at the same time profits sore.

Aside:

The company I was referring to is a huge power company. Yes, they’re all privately owned and operated, and enjoy massive tax breaks, while spewing coal burned (coal? why are we still burning coal in the 21st century?) pollutants into the air. This specific company, which serves a large urban region in the northeast, is so arrogant, not only do they exceed state pollutant requirements, but the much softer federal requirements (thanks a lot Cheney) as well.

After years of violations, the state government finally said you’re going to have to clean this crap up. The company’s response? “We can’t afford it (scrubbers that is), we’ll just shut it down instead.”, leaving tens of thousands of people with no power. The state's response? We can’t have that, let’s wait another 5 years and test it again.

Who the heck is driving the bus in this country?? Sorry for the rant…

I know whose driving. Corporate America is.

I can not believe PC_Troll is not here spamming how great the USA is and how everyone that disagrees is a Communist or Socialist or whatever the NeoCons want you to believe this month.

Maybe he got "laid off" and replaced by someone through the H-1B program? :-)

And, the USA has been producing far more citizen science and tech workers than we've been employing in these fields... and we've been doing so for a long long time. There's a huge pool of untapped citizen talent and knowledge.

Whether someone is or is not, or never did collect unemployment insurance benefits has nothing at all to do with whether they're counted in the unemployment rates, the labor force participation rate or the employment-population ratio. Those are determined by the household survey which is completely separate from the unemployment insurance programs.

That's certainly not how it was reported. If it had been "filled" on the first or second day, you can be sure they would have made a big deal about it, crying that they want the already hugely excessive numbers of visas increased.

*laughs*

Yeah, the guys calling for more H-1B visas.

Have you even thought about this for more than 2 seconds?

What, we should let in every non-=skilled, non-english-speaking immigrant we can find, but make *damned* sure we never let in a highly-skilled, productive, *non-dependant* immigrant?

Yeah, that's a recipe for success...

You're brilliant, sjc001. Idiocy like yours has *got* to take some serious effort.

I can not believe you're posting in an article that has nothing to do with Sony or MS. Oh but look at that, the only contribution you can come up with is some personal insults to some guy on the internet...yea you're cool.

Hello. Sorry to disappoint you so.

I love how I can be completely *not* involved in the topic and yet you still feel the need to bring me into it.

Did you miss me that much?

One has to wonder where you come up with the complete bulls*** you post everyday.

You're are fine one to say that. [rolleyes] You're quite self deluded, tool.

As I had said, quality is irrelevant. Costs are far more important. Not only in salary, but with benefits as well that they don't have to give these people either. And if they complain you can cancel their visa and have them departed. You're such a retard.

quality is irrelevant

Spoken like a true drone.

And you're above statement is completely incorrect.

But hey, you can't prove it, so instead, call me names.

Oh, you already started that. My bad.

Yes, you definitely are self-deluded.

I know you are, but what am I..... [rolleyes] What a schmuck you are.

Actually I was coming here just to pick a fight with you and now you take most arguments out of my mouth! Did the Devils Advocate syndrome get you?

You said that already. You really need some new material.

Nope.

We let in the unskilled workers by the thousands and throw up roadblock after roadblock for skilled workers.

These skilled workers live here, pay rent, buy our goods, and contribute to our national economy.

...well..of course we wouldn't actually want *them* here.

*shakes head*

You really are two years old, aren't you?