Who cares about Toshiba players?
Pioneer has $299 drive for China already...

http://www.digitimes.com...ems/a20070418PD202.html

go southeast asian high definition formats!!!
HVD, EVD, FVD....that would be great if these formats could prevail in the WEST....unlikely but eh. HD content on standard DVDs...of course better if they went to larger format discs

If the holographic tech brings some working samples at last it will for sure kill hd dvd and Blu-ray. Until then we can only hope for the 300GB discs they promise.

So someone is telling me that they've sold 20 times as many players as anyone who has bought HD-DVD movies? Amazon is joking, of course, since most DVD players are purchased at Wal-Mart. Trust me, This whole generation is a very quick fad. Wait for it to pass, and don't buy any of this DRM-crippled crap.

I rather trust fact over random opinions. ;)

I will be waiting until there are low cost "combination" players that fully support both formats.

Since when are Wal-Marts all over the world to sell "most" DVD players? :)

HD-DVD is the better looking format. Take it from someone who has both and doesnt give a s*** about who he pisses off.

If you A/B switch the same movie with both players directly plugged into any source, you will see the black levels and contrast are way better with HD-DVD. I've tried three movies so far and it's the same every time. I even switched the inputs to make sure the video settings werent different on the source inputs and causing the difference in picture.

I tried it with my 65" Samsung DLP, 50" Philips plasma, and InFocus projector so it's not just one source that is showing the obvious difference in quality.

My objective opinion is that Blu-Ray is just not as good as HD-DVD. I really wanted Blu-Ray to be better since there are more companies and titles available but I hope they fold and HD-DVD is the only one left standing. I'll take better picture quality any day of the week.

If you don't believe me (and already own an HD-DVD player), buy a BD player from Best Buy and rent the same movie from Netflix on both formats. Then return the BD player after urinating on it when you see I'm right.

Are you sure about that?
Then why most people buy Blu-ray insted of hd dvd?
http://www.dvdempire.com...Features/hidef_wars.asp

And why even Microsoft, the hd dvd addon maker hosts article which says otherwise?
http://tech.msn.com/prod...x?cp-documentid=4704112

You are a retard as always Hollywood__!
Thats what you are ;|

BS.

Both formats have the same codecs, the advantage is that Blu-Ray has 40% more available bandwidth (48mb/sec vs HD-DVD 30mb/sec), and more storage, 50GB vs 30GB.

I have AVC encoded Blu-Ray titles that go upto 36mb/sec at some points, something that would be bandwidth capped on HD-DVD.

In addition, Blu-Ray audio sound hell of a lot better than HD-DVD.

There are good and bad transfers on both formats, and any idiot can compare the best HD-DVD transfer to the worst Blu-Ray transfer and claim superiority..

The fact is, the best Blu-Ray transfers look better than the best HD-DVD transfers, and the specs on paper also say that Blu-Ray is technically better.

"The fact is, the best Blu-Ray transfers look better than the best HD-DVD transfers, and the specs on paper also say that Blu-Ray is technically better."

- This is just yet another outright BD lie.

You'll not find independent reviews in the media nor many of the many dual format owners on the avsforums & avforums saying any such thing
(obvious 'hydra' shills excepted).

The paper specs are not 'real world' and in the real world VC-1 on HD-DVD sets the standard which BD more often than not fails to match.

.....and how come you BD defenders always lie about MPEG2, huh?

VC-1 and AVC are not always the only codecs used by everyone.
Sony (as a major royalty holder) loves to use MPEG2.
MPEG2 is almost 20yrs old and it shows!

Time to translate: Dave doesn't have any real points so he'll just post useless junk and useless words like retard.

Do us all a favor Dave and go back to Neowin, oh and while your there, catchup on Fony putting crippling DRM on DVD's now.
http://neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=39521

Uh, because its not Microsoft saying anything its a PC WORLD article...contrary to popular belief MSN doesn't only show articles that favor them since its under tech & gadgets and they host articles from pc world, they aren't going to filter it out because someone doesn't agree with them, you know like you.

Blu-ray, HD DVD: Which Movies Do You Want to Watch?
By Melissa J. Perenson, PC World

Nothing wrong with MPEG2 on 50GB media. It perfoms very well. The problems are with MPEG2 on 25G disks, were the bitrate is limited.

Almost all Blu-Ray releases are now either VC1 or AVC, and those that are MPEG2 are on 50GB disks are look great.

I am the most neutral person regarding this, or one of, lol.

I have neither HDdvd or BD...

I could only GUESS BD is superior in every fashion. I will go onto say that if an HD movie is superior toa BD movie, it would have to be in the default settings of specific players given the format, that is highly possible.

For example, if we had a computer analyze the visual bit data for either format and it concluded that a BD had a much greater density, then we adjust and realize that YES BD is actually better, it can have greater contrast but we have to adjust a setting...

It is also, highly likely a movie house who prefers HD would encode their BD version with less fidelity, just to try and foster HD adoption. Technically, there should be absolutely no reason HD is superior to BD. Greater capacity would tend to go towards greater capability for higher quality visuals. The less you compress, the better the imagery.

Whoo look at him, he is a big boy now.

Dont foreword the things to other place. Its here to talk now and you are the one that doesn't have any real points and just post useless junk...

The point is that hd dvd is crap and you have nothing prove otherwise.

Of cource it's BS Steve, it's not what you want to hear. Then again you have never compared them side by side on the same player / monitor combo with the same movie.

I really wish that BD did look better so I can actually build a nice collection but this is not the case.

I've come to the fact that all BD fanboys don't know anything about high end video. I cant tell the difference between audio on the two formats as they both sound pretty good.

Steve, you go on thinking whatever you like but until you do an A/B on your own equipment with the same title, you will have no idea what I am talking about.

alphatrigon,

Corporations thrive on people like you making uninformed decisions based on marketing. You are Sony's wet dream.

When's the next MENSA meeting?

HD-DVD owns the stand alone player of the market at the moment.. They DID NOT count the Xbox or PC models sold.. which Sony DID for Blu-Ray.

just get over with, PS3 really sucks because of its price, meanwhile, microsoft has a "new" xbox 360, and it comes in black and with a greater hard driver, plus a HDMI port and still itz gonna be WAY cheaper than the PS3, $479, BEAT THAT SONY, just think about this, A REAL FAN might spend a lot of money just for things that are gonna be old in what?? five years?? so what's the whole point in buying some expensive sh!t??, for me i guess that every console has its pros and conts, for me itz better Nintendo Wii cuz u DOESNT HAVE TO BE STEATED TO PLAY!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is one of the many reasons why people hate Sony ---> http://sonystrikesagain..../2007/03/19/hello-world/
This is also the reason everyone keeps avoiding every storage medium they put out.

I read the article and I think it's hilarious. DaveBG/GB should be in here soon defending Sony.

This is precisely why *people instantly make a backup of every movie *they purchase with all the BS copy protection and region coding stripped off. Not only does it play in anything but it also will allow an XA2 to upscale out of component video. The original will only upscale out of the HDMI and the component is stuck at 480 no matter what.

Sony can put all the crap they want on thier discs, *people will break it and watch it *their way with no issues.

Sony sucks by the way.

Sony has nothing to do with Blu-ray. Its Panasonoic, Sharp, Pioneer, Samsung and many other vs ... oh well Toshiba :D

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/

What did that have to do with the article? Did you read it?

Dave wake up, get educated and try to stop lying.

HD-DVD is backed by the DVD Forum (go look up it's membership, you might be surprised by some of the names in there).

You'll also note BD assoc members jumping off of the 'BD exclusive ship' to go dual format (so far LG & Samsung, expect others this year)

http://en.wikipedia.org/...u-ray#Corporate_support

"Blu-ray Disc was first developed[25] by Sony Corporation in 2002"

Don't doubt for a second that they have a majority vote on licencing costs.

Look at the others now starting to bail and go dual format.

I am replying to someone. Dont you get it?

I am talking about what we have.
So far Blu-ray have several players from big companies while hd dvd have only from Toshiba.
Dont try to spin the things...

Dave,

You need to actually buy a BD player before you can spout s*** in here. You are pathetic, I saw the BD t-shirt "your girl" made for you on the blu-ray forum.

You have no life.

"Sony has nothing to do with Blu-Ray"

I love it, you just get more desperate and retarded as time goes on. Initially I just thought you were uninformed. Now I realize, your entire life consists of defending and promoting anything Sony.

There is definitely something wrong with you, I feel sorry for anyone who knows you or has to come in contact with you on a daily basis. Do you do anything else but post 600+ messages in the "official" BD forum with your life?

Here is your profile at blu-ray.com

http://forum.blu-ray.com/member.php?u=1691

You sir are pathetic and sad. 601 posts? Do you have any idea what the outside looks like? Blue skies? Fresh cut grass? Grilling steaks on a summer night? There is apparently nothing more important to you than posting about how great BD is and bashing HD-DVD. And you don't even own a player or one single movie.

What has turned you into this BD robot? Oh yeah, I forgot. The first rule of mass hypnosis is to brainwash the stupid people first. You are not even smart enough to convince Sony to give you a free player with all your *Rah Rah Sony cheerleading*.

Theres more than one of you too. I'd like to see the scores from your standardized testing you took in grade school so the government know where the idiots are living. You remind me of George Bush, he's not too bright either and easy manipulated, except he actually has an important job.....and money. Unlike you.

Even the people at the "official" Blu-Ray forum think you're a tool.

The article was about Sony putting DRM in there DVD's which prevented them to play in some DVD player's, even there own brand DVD players. It had nothing to do with Blu-Ray or Sony owning Blu-Ray.

Obviously you didn't get it. You'll say anything to try to make Sony look better, even if it had nothing to do with the poster.

Oh, and by the way; for the record Sony did create Blu-Ray, as it says it on Wikipedia.com (under Corporate Support). "Blu-ray Disc was first developed by Sony Corporation in 2002 as a next generation data and video storage format alternative to DVD."

Talk about spinning things, your the worst at doing it. Here's what you said "Sony has nothing to do with Blu-ray."

Now that he proved you wrong you try and say he's spinning things.

Oops, you beat me to the wikipedia post.

ROFL!!! ...I don't think it will be necessary for me to bother pointing out the stupidity in this post.

What is the saddest part is HD-DVD's players are still better & cheaper than Blu-Ray's.

Really?
I thought you have no life.

You are a Sony hater, i hate no one. You are the one that have no life :D

I read every single comments in this section. I agree with Hollywood all the way. As a technical person, Sony has always been reacting toward creating products with huge advertising. So what that the BD can store more storage? Today, at this point, with the technology that we is in front of me and you and the price of Toshiba 1080i HD-DVD player for $340, how could you go wrong? The picture even on 1080i is awsome. ALso do not forget, there are very limited people buying BD as far as I heard from the manager of Blockbuster Video, over 90% of people who are renting BD movie is because they own a PS3 and they simply have no other option since they already pissed away $600.

The PS3s just aren't shifting the BD movies in anything like decent numbers.
Considering how many PS3s out there the BD sales are less than impressive.

HD-DVD will claw back the recent advantage (and recent numbers show the gap has closed markedly in the last 4 weeks) with lower pricing.

The Toshiba HD A2 is now $300 on Amazon USA and likely to go to $250 in the summer $200 by X-mas, the inexpensive Chinese HD-DVD players arrive in Q3 @ $125 - $175.

Bye bye any BD hopes of 'going mainstream mass-market', hello proprietary format (like UMD is to PSP) and if they're lucky a look in as a professional bulk data storage media (if they can get the 100gb & 200gb media and hardware out at a price business will pay).

BD has fired it's 'big guns' and the PS3 has failed to delivery anything like what they needed.

.....and, with the crappy anti-consumer DRM they have stuffed it with & the strangle-hold BD would have given Sony, good job too.

It says STANDALONE PLAYERS meaning ONE FUNCTION, the xbox360 is mentioned because if one buys it they intend to use it for movies. Whereas a ps3 there is no indication that everyone that buys one is using it to play blu-ray movies. So since neither have the market whatsoever this is a non story

It says the 360 drive is not included in these sales.

just jumping the gun a bit because you know someone is going to start screaming about it. it is the sony way

Yawn, did someone mention 3.5 million PS3's???

Those are not all being used as players. If they all were being used primarly for movies, then blu-ray would have a much bigger lead.

Which is primarily a game console and not a movie player. Yawn...

You yawn a lot. You should get that checked out. Maybe it's your PS3 causing that...

Would you like to provide a source for those numbers? :)

You're point is? This is about stand-alone players...not game consoles.

Not in the stand alone area of the market.

Latz, SB

3.5 million PS3s in the US? I don't think so.

No, that number only appeared in your wet dreams.
Actual sales of the PS3 are just somewhat over 2.8 million:
http://www.nexgenwars.com/

If the PS3 was primarily used as a movie player, Blu-Ray WOULD have a bigger lead as a format. I believe that is what he meant. The PS3 is used for games though, it's a completely different market.

Those are worldwide sales also, it's not even close to 2.8 million in the US.

Yes, exactly, the decided to exclude the 360 HD-DVD sales (~120,000 globally), otherwise the stats would have to include 3.5 million PS3's

100,000 players in the US (and a about 20,000 more globally) is small fry to the might of the PS3.

What a sad buch of tossers you lot are.

What it suits you, the PS3 is a games console, and not a movie player.

Other times, everyone is buying the PS3 as a cheap Blu-Ray player, nobody wants it for games..

What way are you going to go this week?

There is a critical flaw in your logic. The 360 HD-DVD addon drive can only be used for movies. It has no other purpose. Therefore every single HD-DVD addon is guaranteed to be used for movies. That is not the case at all with the PS3.

And we all know the numbers on nextgenwars are made up by a 16yr old Xbox fanboy with nothing better to do (really!!), they count up based on nothing more than someones predictions are sales over a fixed time period.

Slightly more accurate is:

http://www.vgchartz.com/

PS3 = 3.2 million at last count, should be 3.5 by now. These are SOLD units, not the BS SHIPPED units that Microsoft fool people with...

http://www.qj.net/Rumor-...-sales-/pg/49/aid/89595

The only people who have ever said talked about the PS3 being a cheap Blu-Ray player are Blu-Ray supporters. No one has changed their minds and said one thing or another from week to week. You are just looking for an argument where there isn't one, using name calling to try and get a stronger reaction. There is a name for this I believe, it's called trolling.

as someone else had stated previousily a site with a "z" for an "s" seems least trustworthy.

Where is this "we ALL know people at" that seems determined the owner of nextgenwars is a 16 yr old do you have proof with him holding a sign and you shaking his hand? I mean seriousily did you read it on a chatboard or did the blu -ray supporters hold a meeting and decided since that site didnt meet their expectations it must be a lie therefore it has to be a 16 yr old.

1. Prove that the first site is made up and that vgchartz is more accurate.

2. Those are worldwide sales, this article is talking about US sales.

3. This article has nothing to do with console sales.

Yawn, did someone mention 3.5 million PS3's???
By Benjamin Linus

Did someone mention 10 million x360?

Now there is 8 months months to the new year and lets say x360 do not sell any consoles till then they have to sell roughly 1 million consoles a month to catch up, and with the xmas 360 holiday price drop glooming, fat chance

I see loads of shops in the UK since the launch of PS3 with unsold stock. It's funny yet Sony continue their spin of PR crap. I believe Sony are like an average politician FULL of S***!!

He doesn't own a PS3.

News flash....They are both inaccurate. I would not trust either one. vgchartz.com is not "slightly more accurate." It is just favoring your beloved PS3 more.

Also about your last link: "According to a post on Softpedia, there are ((((rumors)))) circulating about the accuracy of Xbox 360 sales figures"

Rumors Steve. They are seldomly true. So why don't you find some real information before you start posting your BS ok?

Also what makes you so sure that those are SOLD units. Do you have any proof?

For once, I'm inclined to agree with Sony fanboy Steve Austin. If you go to nexgenwars, the counters advance while you watch at a constant rate.

It's probably BS information, I'm not sure that the other site is correct either but you Sony f**s need to stop being little cheerleaders. Your post sound very much like a bunch of grade school b****es.

What makes you people jump on one console or the other when you dont own or have even tried both? I have, and the 360 is more fun and has a lot more games. My PS3 has become a test player to see how s***ty BD looks compared to HD-DVD (for me).

People like Steve and Dave (who still doesn't own a BD player or a PS3 by his own admission) cheerlead the PS3 and Sony but don't know s*** about HD-DVD or the 360.

I bought an 80GB video iPod for $349.00 and a Sansa C250 for $79.00 and I'll take the Sansa any day of the week. I though the Sansa would be a great disposable travel player and I would use it very little, now the iPod sits in a drawer. My point is the "hot" item everyone has to have because it's popular is not always better.

Just because it has a Sony logo on it doesnt mean it's great. The PS3 is pretty much a boat anchor. Sony camcorders, great. Sony CRT TV's, great. Sony notebooks, not so great. Sony car audio, Best Buy and Circuit City junk.

I really dont like Microsoft all that much but when it comes to current gaming consoles, the 360 is just all around better. You PS3 people would know that if you werent brainwashed by the media at release time making it look like no one could get a PS3 because they were being sold faster than Sony could make them. The fact was Sony had it's head up it's a** as usual and only had one tenth of what they promised to deliver.

"Also what makes you so sure that those are SOLD units. Do you have any proof?"

Sony said so! We all know Sony would never tell a lie. Oh wait...

"There is a critical flaw in your logic. The 360 HD-DVD addon drive can only be used for movies. It has no other purpose. Therefore every single HD-DVD addon is guaranteed to be used for movies. That is not the case at all with the PS3."

Yep, exactly right. I love how he completely ignored your reply and steered his next post towards an argumentum ad hominem. Typical fanboy though, logic escapes them. When you hit the nail right on the head, they just can't STAND it. Good job. ;)

The onwner admitted so, after being pressed as to why the figures were so inaccurate..

Well said, except that I like Panasonic camcorders and TV's (well Plasma HDTV's anyway) better than Sony's. I still have an old Panasonic camcorder that's over 15 years old (it uses the old VHS cassettes) and it still works great... though big compared to new ones out now. You have to hold it on your shoulder and has no LCD, just a black and white eye piece (though it records in color).

Steve runs away!

He tends to do that a lot. Probably because he is wrong a lot...