HD-DVD is dying badly in Europe. Some big name stores like Borders and Blockbuster are Blu-Ray only, and those that are stocking HD-DVD have a pitiful selection, compared to the Blu-Ray selection.

Anyone that tells you that HD-DVD is the dominant format in Europe, is simply passing on the Toshiba lies.

A typical UK store display (Virgin):
http://i17.tinypic.com/2vv115t.jpg

Ray wtf are you on about?

Neither format of high def is especially 'visible' in the UK......but HD DVD stand-alones are doing much better than BD stand-alones.

You'd also find our 3 largest national CE chains (Comet, Currys & Dixons, in addition to slightly smaller outlets like John Lewis and a raft of people on line) all selling HD DVD.

PS3 sales (like everywhere else) fell off a cliff after the very short fanboy rush (slightly boosted by some a/v fans getting one as a BD player).
Current PS3 sales now bump along at the low level they fell to.

Neither the UK nor 'Europe' has tuirned out to be a great area for sustained PS3 sales......so pretty much the same story as everywhere elese for this grossly over-priced kiddies toy, right?

Why do you keep on lying about this?

Obviously my pic has sent you off into a mad foaming fanboy rant..

PS3 sales are doing fine. In europe in the last month, Sony have sold 1,000,000 of them..

The last time I checked, Comet had no HD players, and Currys had 1 Toshiba HD-DVD and 3 Blu-Ray Players (Sony, Pioneer and a Panasonic). And Dixons is no longer trading on the UK high street, it's been merged with Currys.

http://www.telegraph.co....07/04/08/ccdixons08.xml

Infact, I even doubt you live in the UK (as you would know Dixons is long gone)..

"Obviously my pic has sent you off into a mad foaming fanboy rant.."

- Once again you just can't help revealing your true intent and wish.

Dream on your laughable & infantile dreams.

I'm no 'fanboy' (unlike yourself) and that wasn't a rant, it was merely the truth rebutting your (repeated) lies.

PS3 sales had a decent but very short-lived start & then fell off of a cliff -

"Sony PlayStation 3 sales freefall
Commentators suggest it's the high price
by Stuart Miles
Sony might have had the most successful console launch in UK history, however it seems the honeymoon is over already.

Chart Track, the company that records sales of games and consoles, is reporting that the sales of PS3 hardware have dropped by 82% in their second week.

The same affect has happened for the games with Resistance: Fall of Man and racing game Motorstorm also dropping over 60 percent of their sales in week two.

"It seems that those who wanted one, bought one. Sony's trouble now will be to convince those unsure to pay the high price", an industry insider told us.
http://www.pocket-lint.c...-3-sales-freefall.phtml

As for the rest of your rubbish?

You're just ignorant or a ludicrously sad liar -

Comet Toshiba HD E1 HD DVD player -
http://www.comet.co.uk/c...e/product.do?sku=364185

Comet XBox 360 HD DVD add-on - http://www.comet.co.uk/c...366471&summary=true

Comet HD DVD movies stocked - http://www.comet.co.uk/c...e/product.do?sku=380660

http://www.comet.co.uk/c...e/product.do?sku=380687

http://www.comet.co.uk/c...e/product.do?sku=380679

You lied about Currys -

Currys Toshiba HD E1 -
http://www.currys.co.uk/...869567&category_oid=

Currys XBox 360 HD DVD add-on -
http://www.currys.co.uk/...789061&category_oid=

Currys stock of 48 HD DVD movie titles -
http://www.entertainment...d-dvd.list?pageNumber=3

Do you even read your own links or do you just have trouble understanding them?

Dixons has not 'merged with Currys' actually, they have been part of the same group for years.

Dixons have now just gone on-line and Currys have taken over some of their stores (the rest are being or have been sold off).

http://www.dixons.co.uk/

Dixons Toshiba HD E1 -
http://www.dixons.co.uk/...amp;category_oid=-28609

Dixons XBoox 360 HD DVD add-on -
http://www.dixons.co.uk/...amp;category_oid=-28623

Dixon's stock of 48 HD DVD movies -
http://www.dixons-entert...d-dvd.list?pageNumber=1

John Lewis Toshiba HD E1 -
http://www.johnlewis.com.../230406238/Product.aspx

- I have my doubts that you even live in the UK cos you clearly know jack sh*t about what is happening in the stores here.....either that or you're such a tragic little fanboy liar you have to (for some deranged reason) come here & try to lie about how badly you want HD DVD to be doing compared to your beloved BD/PS3.

You're obviously a patheticly sad case, so what is it, huh?

Are you just a woefully badly informed plonker or just a flat-out liar?

Cos you just got well and truely busted, sad sack.

Run away back to your kiddies games machine now, foolish ignoramous.

.....oh and one last thing.

Whilst you're doing your ridiculous crowing about the numbers of BD players compared to HD DVD you might like to bear in mind (cos you obviously don't know the subject as well as you would obviously like to think) that Samsung make the Philips stand-alone and the Sony stand-alone is made by Pioneer.

In terms of actual separate and distinct machines it is HD DVD that will very soon be providing the most diverse and real selection (Toshiba, NEC, Sanyo, Samsung (abandoned BD exclusive stance), LG (abandoned BD exclusive stance), Lite-on, Mitsubishi, Onkyo, Kenwood and several Chinese manufacturers.

You might find this educational too -
http://www.hddvdprg.com/eng/about/member.html

63 general members of the HD DVD group and 71 Associate members.
Try reading the link & look at the names & just think how you have been lied to about how HD DVD was supposed to have so few HD DVD 'backers'.

But then lies and sheer ignorant fanboy ravings have been the almost exclusive and typical hallmark of that 'certain element' of the BD side in any of these 'debates'.

Go back and re-read my comment.

"And Dixons is no longer trading on the UK high street, it's been merged with Currys."

And it's obvious that you can't tell the difference between high street and online, as all thouse thinks refer to the online shops of the respective companies.

The high street where consumers shop is a VERY different story...

Infact even online stores like Amazon UK, show Blu-Ray outselling HD-DVD.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd-uk/

Blu-Ray #1 product Sales rank: 218
HD-DVD #1 product Sales rank: 1382

"And Dixons is no longer trading on the UK high street, it's been merged with Currys."

- Go and reread your own link (assuming you ever did read it in the 1st place).
Dixons did not "merge" with Currys.

The Dixons group bought Currys years ago (dec 1984 to be precise).

Dixons has retreated from the High St to become an internet supplier leaving Currys to take over some stores and the rest to be sold off.

" it's obvious that you can't tell the difference between high street and online, as all thouse thinks refer to the online shops of the respective companies."

- .....and everything either available in-store or able to be brought in to the store very quickly (or home delivered through the local store or internet).

Jeeez but you're making a twat of yourself over this idiotic wriggling.

"The high street where consumers shop is a VERY different story..."

- Er, no they aren't.

Everything on-line is either in the stores (most of them are by now very large out of town stores) or capable of being ordered in either to the store itself for pick-up or sent direct for home delivery.

You really are going to insist on making a fool of yourself over this, aren't you?

You got caught out lying. Simple as.

Let's hear your version of how these stores work......or is it just that you're seriously trying to claim that the one store local to you that you say you visited recently is meant to be how it is nationwide?

*LMAO*

"Infact even online stores like Amazon UK, show Blu-Ray outselling HD-DVD."


- Ah the retreat to the typical BS.

Sales are very close.

BD has had a lead since the turn of the year but overall sales numbers are very very close (something like 1 million to 998,000 according to some).

Very amusing to see that suddenly the Amazon 'sales rank' (!?) becomes the best stat you can pluck.

I'll stick to Neilson (which Amazon contribute to actually).
They show a 60:40 lead this month for BD (which I have never denied).

60:40.

When there are supposed to be over 3million BD players out there to 250,000 HD DVD players.

Pathetic.

.....and your running away from every other point that has been raised in this thread is noted.

your comments show how desperate you are becoming.

Online stores are able to stock a MUCH larger selection of stock, and therefore does not represent the true intentions of the retailer. Go into a high street, and they will only be stocking items that s***.

Instore, there is virtually no HD-DVD hardware, only Blu-Ray. Comet, Currys, John Lewis, the pattern is the same.

The original photo also shows the media going the same way..

I'm very sorry your beloved HD-DVD format is dying, but you will eventually have to face up to it...

http://www.dvdempire.com...p;userid=99365630471893

06th March: HD-DVD 15% of sales Blu-Ray 85% of sales

"your comments show how desperate you are becoming."

- FFS, well, you really don't have a laughably deranged & ludicrously grandiose idea of yourself much, do you Ray, not.

LMAO.

You really are a trolling idiot Ray.

Your own little local store and your little pic is no indication of the nationwide situation.
In spite of your original lies in the UK HD DVD standalones sell reasonably well - certainly far far better than their BD counterparts.

Sorry this obviously distresses you so that you had to continually try & lie about it.

My local Currys has HD DVD & BD.

Yours is obviously one of their tiny little old-style stores and not one in one of the mega-sized out of town centres.

Poor you.
Still nevermind Ray, it is just the age-old curse of the small-town provincial, always imagining everyone else has to deal with the boring small scale small-town dreary cr@p they have to live.

Your tedious little selective fanboy stats don't impress me either.

Neilson say 60:40 this month

Oh look, Axel shows HD DVD in the lead -

BLU-RAY HD-DVD
Weekly 48.4% 51.6%
Monthly 41.5% 58.5%
Yearly 34.3% 65.7%
http://www.axelmusic.com....php?fid=39&pid=fmt

You've made a fool of yourself here Ray, anyone looking back at what was actually said can see it.....and how you continually run away, s*** off the subject, squirm and wriggle.

Better luck next time.

Yeah HD DVD is sure dying alright

http://www.amazon.com/Ul...d=1177897318&sr=8-4

From here it's looking like you're the desperate one.

Not sure what relevance a link to the Matrix on HD-DVD on the US Amazon, has to do with HD-DVD dying in Europe...

"Yours is obviously one of their tiny little old-style stores and not one in one of the mega-sized out of town centres."

Actually it was taken at Lakeside in Essex, the largest out of town shopping centre in the UK... So that kinda blows your desperate fanboy nonsense out of the water....

Oh look Ray, your wee friend has rowed in to help you out, where's Dave and the other 2?

So, Lakeside doesn't have any HD DVD?

Bo**ocks.......or will you now admit the deceitful & utterly selective nature of your photo, liar?

(although your subtle s*** to "virtually no HD-DVD hardware" is noted.
Squirm, wriggle and lie.
So typical of anything coming from the BD side in this.

If I could be arsed I'd ring them to prove you a liar but what's the point?
It's one of the biggtest stores in the country (perhaps you got lost in there) and I already know they stock almost everything they have available (seeing as how I lived in Hornchurch a wee while back I know the place reasonably well).

Anyhoo, I already caught you out lying about Comet.

I don't believe you - and I doubt many others will either (beside those so obviously & laughably biased in this as to be 'on your - BD - side').

....... and such an obvious a tight-in shot of a little small BD movie stand proves nothing, you idiot.

I don't see where he claimed there was no HD-DVD. There is a photo showing 1 column of HD-DVD and 9 of Blu-Ray.. And there was mention of 1 high street store selling a Toshiba HD-DVD hardware.

"I don't see where he claimed there was no HD-DVD."

- No, he simply went on to use terms like "there is virtually no HD-DVD hardware".

Typical cowardly spin, not quite a definitive statement but plenty of implication.

ie typical BD cheer-leading BS.

Right now there are 2 Toshiba HD DVD players generally available (and from my own experience a hell of a lot more 'visible' than any BD stand-alone).
There's a 3rd model to follow shortly and there's also the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on.

We also will be seeing several other brands in the UK very soon (Kenwood, Samsung, LG & Onkyo) as well as the Chinese output at the years end.

BD has the PS3 and that's the sum total of BD's availability I usually see in town or when I'm in the city, I suspect I am far from alone in that.

Who cares about store stock anyway? Online prices for movies is the way to go. Amazon has a huge selection of HD and blu titles and it is growing almost daily. I prefer to save at least 5 bucks per title by buying online. It may take a year or more to see a winner which is sad.

Saying that anyone is out of the market already is truly a fan boy pipe dream. Any of the new formats is a very small almost meaningless percentage of the total market at this point, lots of things can happen to either format.

Hang on, you said earlier that Richer Sounds stocked the Samsung Blu-Ray player. The last time I looked Richer Sounds was on the UK high street, and my British mate tells me that Currys and Comet also stock Panasonic, Sony and Pionner Blu-Ray standalones...

Seems you are even worse than Ray, yours are pure lies, his are just half truths...

"my mate tells me"

- Oh well then, case closed.

FFS, what a pathetic joke.

Indeed most of the people here would buy online.

However the large majority of the population still shop instore, hence instore stock is where the war will be won. As soon as stores stop stocking one or the other due to lack of shelve space, then war is over.

No super preference either way. However, as a PC owner, there is an element here that is being missed. There are four manufacturers who have out Blue-Ray Burners, right now. I have one in my PC. The fact that I can burn and output my own BlueRay disc was the entire reason I adopted it.

Right now, I can't buy an internal HD-DVD ROM drive. I don't even see anyone having one planned for the PC. Yes, you can hack the XBOX drive via USB, and Toshiba & HP both have HD-DVD external ROMs, but outside of being very slow, you can't write to either.

I know this is a nitpick, but this is where storage does matter. The fact that I can buy 50GB/25GB BlueRay discs and burn them, right now, is an incredible pro in my book.

I won't comment as to movie quality or difference between HD-DVD in that format. I will just say that as of right now, BlueRay is more functional for me.

HD DVD drives are coming and (as a Toshiba rep said at CES 2007, on the record) at a price "significantly below the BD competition".

I'm not for paying out over £500 for an early BD drive when as we can see from ripped high def movies (both HD DVD & BD) that they rarely go over 24gb.

Right now if I am so bothered about sheer storage HDD is the best value option IMO.

I'll happily wait on the HD DVD drives (which I suspect are going to appear using the new 51gb TL media anyways).

Hasn't the PC HD-DVD drive been coming for over a year now...

Seems they are stalling...

Toshiba demonstarted their PC HD DVD drive at CES 2007 saying it would go on sale after sampling and final testing this spring.

They haven't stalled anything, they're just working to their own game plan.

Better that than BD's outrageous £500+ ($1000+ here in the UK) PC drives - not forgetting the horrific cost of BD media (50gb DL for how much!?......man, that is one mightily expensive coaster if it all goes wrong - and they really have had some problems with their DL media haven't they? :lol: ).

HD DVD drives have been appearing in Laptop (notebook) computers......including (most amusingly) from Samsung.

I don't care who wins. I just want the availability and price of burners and media to come way down one of these years.

There is so much drum beating and confusion, that Sony and Toshiba start looking more like a joke in a circus. Don't worry, by the end of 2007 China is going to have EVD - that we'll be the 3rd player on the market. Can Sony and Toshiba deny China from playing poker? That's a tough answer since every junk we buy is made in China.

that's why i havent buy none of one of those pieces of sh!t

Link #1 does not prove anything...

Link #2 Thank you for showing a player that is a good $150 cheaper than the cheapest Blu-Ray player. Your comment lacks intelligence as do many of them. They didn't put them on clearance in a "desperate attempt to get rid of them." There is absolutely no indication what so ever that they are discontinuing selling these.

Link #3 Is irrelevant as well. So far this has not been confirmed to be going on anywhere else besides the person that submitted the article. Everybody else that has checked have found them to be the same $181.

Link #4 It stills does not prove that it is not in the works.

Link #5 Again it doesn't prove that it is not in the works.

Link #6 "So far, 998,059 HD DVD discs have been sold, according to the HD DVD Promotional Group. This is about 2,000 shy of the total publicized by Blu-ray on Monday." Looks like the 70% number was again more of Sony's BS.

"There are some very red faced HD-DVD fanboys here now it seems." That would be because??? Your logic is flawed as usual Ray. As many times as you have been proven wrong I am shocked that you still have the guts to post.

OK, if you want links....

LOL, Imation buys TDK to get into Blu-Ray...

http://digitalprosound.d...ewarticle.jsp?id=130334

Funny, retards here were spinning it a different way..

Walmart puts HD-DVD players on clearance, in a desperate attempt to get rid of them..

http://www.walmart.com/c...t.do?product_id=4790608

Retailers knock over $100 of the 360 HD-DVD drive, as they prepare to jump the sinking HD-DVD ship.

http://news.punchjump.com/article.php?id=4099

And the funniest part? Walmart havn't even placed any orders yet.. The Chinese manufacturer was making it up...

http://www.fuhyuan.com/e...1=34123&Action=Show

And Walmat call it "full of inaccuracies", "Most of the facts, including the purchase, were untrue,"

http://www.pcmag.com/art...2/0,1895,2122715,00.asp

Blu-ray discs represented 70 percent of the high-definition discs purchased in the first quarter

http://uk.reuters.com/ar...s/idUKN2220834920070424

Now we can all wait for the real news, when Walmart actually buy Blu-Ray... There are some very red faced HD-DVD fanboys here now it seems...

Pppffffhhhhh
What a pointless collection of laughable spin.

Your links that either outright don't say what you claim they say
or
they kind of say what you claim but only when hugely twisted by the most determinedly selective, ill-informed and immature mind.....in short the rather typical and usual BD fanclub tactic(s) in this.

"Now we can all wait for the real news, when Walmart actually buy Blu-Ray... There are some very red faced HD-DVD fanboys here now it seems..."

- Actually the Chinese firm did not deny this HD DVD deal (and neither has Walmart if you check out what they are actually saying).

They merely regretted it becoming public before all the details had been finally agreed and signed and sealed.

Clearly Walmart wanted it kept confidential - you might be surprised to know and understand that this is perfectly normal business practice on big ground breaking deals.

The "red face" is going to be yours tho along with all those other ludicrous fanboys desperate to believe this might be about BD.

It is mere howling at the moon cos you all realise the implications (and not just of this deal but also of the 3 other Chinese brands coming towards the end of the year - something even you guys know BD have no answer to).

Here's a grown up point you might find, er, difficult.....feel free to point to any record of any formal licencing the BD side have done that would allow Walmart to enter into this sort of BD deal with a(ny) Chinese factory.

It's a matter of public record Toshiba did it in 2005.....when did BD do it if it might be about BD then, hmmmmmm?

Bear in mind the BD Assoc have specifically and publicly said they would not follow Toshiba's course (in 2005) of licencing to China (which was a policy designed and publicly stated to maintain the BD profit margins).

But nevermind eh?

Go back to the regular juvenile whining about your Playstation game console and the big bad nasty microsoft's, er sorry obviously I meant micro$oft's, game console.

Looks like he hit a raw nerve..

The last few links clearly show both Walmart and the Taiwanese manufacturer back tracking on the HD-DVD announcement... I wonder why...

"Looks like he hit a raw nerve.."

- LMAO.

You wish, all too clearly.

"The last few links clearly show both Walmart and the Taiwanese manufacturer back tracking on the HD-DVD announcement... I wonder why..."

- Er, because it was meant to be a confidential deal until everything has been nailed down & agreed?

.....or does that sort of adult & normal business reality not compute in 'fanboy land', huh?

......and that "back tracking" you think you are seeing does not include an actual total & flat denial in any sense.

Try reality for a change.

here we go again. do you people really care that much?

Well, yes, people are being fooled by BS press releases.

I seriously doubt HD-DVD has sold anywhere near as many as they claim, simply because everywhere else has been seeing 3:1 ratios of Blu-Ray outselling HD-DVD.

Then there is the HD-DVD is winning in Europe BS, which is trying to convince Americans that just because HD-DVD may be failing there, it will eventually claw back because Europe is Pro HD-DVD (totally false, as in my town, 3 stores stock Blu-Ray, not a single store stocks HD-DVD, and most people have never heard of HD-DVD). Even Borders in the UK are not bothering with it..

Everywhere else is not valid claim, show proof.

......and let's not forget it's only "everywhere else" for a short period of time.

http://blogs.pcworld.com...03/bluray_outselli.html

http://news.digitaltrends.com/article12412.html

I could go on, but I can't be bothered. instead, find me any article that says that HD-DVD is even in the same ballpark as Blu-Ray sales...

"find me any article that says that HD-DVD is even in the same ballpark as Blu-Ray sales." Read the article you are commenting on genius.

Currys, Dixons and Comet are all carrying HD DVD in the UK.
They are amongst the largest of our national CE chain stores, along with a host of smaller retail outlets nationwide and on-line.

"Most people" don't know what 'blu-ray' is (besides - some of - the kiddies and their playstations).

Blu what?
Unless you are among the minority that already know what it is it is a meaningless 'name'.

But the grown-ups understand perfectly well what 'HD' means from HD TV and the Sky HD, Virgin HD & Telewest HD etc etc adverts (even if they don't have it).
They also know perfectly well what 'DVD' means.

How obtuse and contemptuously condescending towards other people do you really have to be to claim and seriously imagine people don't understand this.

Just stop lying and making yourself look even more ridiculous.

"Just stop lying and making yourself look even more ridiculous."

I think he enjoys it. He does it several times a day.

So they are not telling the truth, and Sony never does that RIGHT!!!!!

http://i17.tinypic.com/2vv115t.jpg

A pictures says 1000 words. I took this earlier today, in a UK store.

HD-DVD is dying badly, anyone that claims otherwise is a HD-DVD owner with a $500 dollar door-stop.

You just can't help lying can you?

Sales numbers tell the story not your selective photograpky.

The truth is PS3 sales (and therefore BD sales) fell off a cliff after the very brief fanboy rush (which was given a little boost by the a/v fans getting one to play BD movies).

PS3 sales (in the UK and the rest of Europe) have stayed at that low level ever since.

BD stand-alones barely sell any numbers at all (with Samsung reduced to slashing the cost of the BD1000 in places like Ricker Sounds - a CE clearance chain - from £1000 to £350.....and still they don't s***!)

......and you can't help yourself from even lying about prices can you?
The XBox 360 HD DVD add-on is now (new) between $72 - $100 in the USA and can be had around the £100 level in the UK.
The Toshiba HD A" can be had (new) for $310 in the USA.

Doorstop?
With a 600 movie high def catalogue this year and more to come next?

As BD exclusive hardware manufacturers abandon exclusiveity to go dual format?!
(cor, yeah cos you'd 'know' more about this all than Samsung or LG, right? LMAO.

Go back to playing games.

Rename this site "FormatWarNews"

Here's some reality for you idiot fanboys who keep spouting nonsense, from a real consumer, who spends with his dollars and has to "translate" all this nonsense for his non-techie friends and family, to better guide them on their spending decisions:

How about getting some truth (gasp) out of both camps? IMHO, the HD DVD camp has been much more forthcoming about it's sales figures and willingness to categorize them as being independent of the 360's HD-DVD addon etc... Sony's had a nasty history of supporting/releasing extremely proprietary formats, and quite honestly, I'm glad to see that some people recognize that, and acknowledge that what Sony's always tried to do was lock down things way too much in their favor and corner markets. UMD, MiniDisc, Beta, Memory Stick, must I go on???

Nobody can tell me that BRD is better than HDDVD because it "looks better" and "has more space". Please quantify this with objective testing with some substantive corroborating evidence from a serious professional group that people look up to as a leader or authority in audio/video products.

Bigger isn't always better, folks! So throw that "BR has more space than HD-DVD, so it' *must* be better" lemming argument. It won't work on someone who looks at the big picture.

It's product quality, consistency, and most importantly, COMPATIBILITY and CONVENIENCE that matters these days. If it's not going to work now and in the future, then forget it, because quite simply, it's a design failure in this digital age for any consumer (like me) straight out of the gate for several reasons...

A) It can't play standard DVD by default. If they are making Blu-Ray discs the same physical size and dimensions as a standard dvd, using the same "type" of reading mechanism (aiming a blue laser at a steadily moving spiral track on a disc, like how a standard dvd player reads a track with a red laser), then HELLO?!?! *knock knock knock* McFly!?! What BONEHEAD designer forgot to include that functionality? Seriously!! No consumer in their right MIND would abandon standard DVD for a player that doesn't support DVD. We don't NEED another player taking up space on our home theatre racks, although I will be happy to *replace* my standard DVD player with one that plays both DVD and a high-definition "DVD" format (Like, wow, HD-DVD!). Nor would I recommend BRD for that glaringly obvious reason!
B) It's prohibitively expensive, even compared to HDDVD.
C) PC RootKit Supplier of Japan, oops, I mean SONY supports it.
D) Brand Recognition: HD-DVD is an evolutionary step in a ten+ year old standard, and any idiot would look at the name and realize it's High Def DVD. If you don't recognize that, you probably are wearing a helmet, riding a short yellow bus to school, and drool a lot.

Here's what I'd like to see from both camps, outright truthful numbers that are categorized according to the following criteria, and assembled by a neutral third party:

1) Stand-alone players that are NOT attached to some game system (that means NO 360 addons, and the PS3 does NOT count as a stand alone player!!) sold and their respective prices next to each model that has outsold the rest in their particular format

2) Stand alone disc *retail* sales figures, and these must be sales recorded without the aid of "buy 1 get 1 free" vouchers from either company that might come with the initial player purchase or game console purchases. Also any discs included with the players in the package are not counted. I want the numbers for people purchasing at a store of some kind (online orders at amazon for discs counts too, as an example). Nothing more, nothing less.

3) A very public breakdown of the limitations and advantages of each technology (from that same third party that makes counts and evaluations of the tech) and why anyone would be motivated to buy it.

4) I'd like Sony fanboys out there to realize that the PS3 is NOT a reason to assume Blu-Ray is going to win. Here's a clue for you: I don't buy overpriced console game systems, and not everyone WILL. Anyone assuming the PS3 is the driving force that will crush HD-DVD needs to have Chuck Norris come to their house and roundhouse kick them to the head.

Well said Weezu,

I have been looking at the differences on my own equipment with the same release from BD and HD-DVD. Using the same monitor and simply A/B the two players. The results are consistent accross the board. HD-DVD transfers have superior black levels and contrast, which makes a huge difference on a dedicated screen and projector.

Everything you said is right on the money but there are plenty of brain dead BD zombies that refuse to compare the two formats objectively.

you could show them two screens showing the two movies playing side by side and they would still claim you are wrong.

Nice. Pretend HD-DVD is better.

How can Blu-Ray, with over 60% more storage space, and 55% more bandwidth be inferior, consider they use the exact same codecs.

Your just blowing smoke, in a desperate attempt to save HD-DVD. Infact, it's even doubtfull you actually own a Blu-Ray players, and are simply an early adopter that does not want to be stung by HD-DVD dying...

Just because something has more space does not make it better...

No one need to pretend anything.

The awards from various independent reviews tell a story of excellence BD simply cannot match.

In the case of a storage medium, I am afraid it does. More Space == Less compression == higher quality

More Space = Same compression and more room for Sony's BS DRM protection software. You can spout statistics all you want, doesn't change that Blu-Ray is absolutely no better than HD-DVD.

The only people claiming that Blu-Ray is no better than HD-DVD, are those early HD-DVD adopters that now realise they got a dying format on their hands..

Hell, they have just knocked $100 of the Xbox360 HD-DVD drive to try and s*** them, after Microsoft's implying that there will be a Blu-Ray add-on for the 360...

Link? Sounds like a desperate attempt to pretend HD-DVD has qualtiy too..

Quality is a broad term. I don't consider 2 minute start-up times for a Toshiba HD-DVD player to be quality, nor the noise and heat they kick out.

Even the latest model takes 40 seconds to start up, before it lets you put a disc in, and then another 30 seconds for the movie starts..

http://www.reghardware.c...shiba_hd-xe1/page3.html

That's not quality. That's crap. My PS3 the movie starts within 12 seconds of inserting the disk from off state.

The people deciding to give HD DVD industy awards (in preference to Blu-ray) are clearly saying it's better.

.....and your claim microsoft are going to bring out a BD drive is just ludicrous delusion of the highest order.

"Link?"

- Oh dear, here we go, you just can't help pushing this until you end up looking ridiculous can you?

I'll provide links, k?

Toshiba HD-XE1 bags Best Hi-Def Player award
http://techdigest.tv/200...shiba_hdxe1_b.html#more

HD DVD beats BluRay
The folks at Home Cinema Choice have made their call and given Tosh’s deck the thumbs up.
http://www.t3.co.uk/news...yer/hd_dvd_beats_bluray

TOSHIBA HD-XA1 HD DVD PLAYER WINS SOUND & VISION PRODUCT OF THE YEAR AWARD
http://www.tacp.toshiba....sarticle.asp?newsid=138

Home Theatre Magazine, in their “2007 Rave Awards” have selected as their choice for “Best Source Component over $500”

List of HD DVD awards -

MARCH 2007 Home Theater 2007 RAVE Award – Toshiba HD-XA1 HD DVD Player: 2007 RAVE Award (Recognition of Audio and Video Excellence) for 'Best Source Component, Over $500'

JANUARY 26, 2007 TOSHIBA HD-XA1 HD DVD PLAYER WINS SOUND & VISION PRODUCT OF THE YEAR AWARD

JANUARY 2007 Ultimate AV Top Ten 2006 – Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD Player

SEPTEMBER 2006 Custom Retailer EXC!TE Award – Toshiba HD DVD Players: Custom Retailer congratulates Toshiba HD DVD Players on winning 2006 EXC!TE Award for Excellence in Custom Installation Technologies and Products

JANUARY 2006 Popular Mechanics Editor’s Choice Awards – HD-XA1: In recognition of outstanding achievement in new product design and innovation.

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/news/

"Sounds like a desperate attempt to pretend HD-DVD has qualtiy too.."

- Nothing desperate about it at all......and those independent Blu-ray awards, any sign of them?

"Quality is a broad term."

- Not really, excellent award-winning Picture and Sound quality stand out.

"I don't consider 2 minute start-up times for a Toshiba HD-DVD player to be quality, nor the noise and heat they kick out."

- LMAO.
Is that the best lying BS you got?
You know your controllers really ought to be providing you with something at least half-way credible by now. :lol: :rollseyes:

(you can prove "2 minutes" too I take it btw?
thought not)

S'funny how neither owners nor the independent magazines mention excessive "noise" & "heat" (although now the reality of the PS3 is out there those aren't exactly the 2 qualities I'd be spot-lighting, especially quiet and cool the PS3 is not.)

"Even the latest model takes 40 seconds to start up, before it lets you put a disc in, and then another 30 seconds for the movie starts.."

- ......and?

Frankly when the quality of image & sound on offer are so good a few seconds delay is hardly a big deal.... to someone grown up and not obsessed with being a spec sheet jockey, that is.

"That's not quality."

- Quite right, a few seconds delay is not a 'quality' issue.

The quality of the image and sound is and HD DVD has that covered beautifully - as independent magaziner awards repeatedly show.

"My PS3 the movie starts within 12 seconds of inserting the disk from off state."

- .....and so what?

That's not 'quality', it's got nothing to do with image or sound quality.

.....but the risible level at which you seem to be judging everything speaks volumes. :P

Load times, the be-all and end-all of high def......ffs doesn't that just say it all?

Go back to your kiddies game console.

Another brain dead idiot (Ray)

I've said plenty of times it doesnt make sense, the higher capacity format should have a better picture. There is no smoke blowing because I wish that BD did look better. I can get way more movies on BD from more studios.

You are such a fanboy, it's pathetic. You just got lumped in with the likes of DaveBG, Mark G, Steve Austin, and a couple other morons making minimum wage that pretend to be be high end gurus.

Spend some money and compare them yourself you cheap bas****. I was a BD adopter before I bought an HD-DVD player, I got my PS3 at midnight on the 17th of November and didnt get an HD-DVD until over a month later.

I just happened to noticed huge differences between the two. I really dont care if both formats fail. I'll toss all this s*** in the garbage, I could care less.

I'd love to be able to post some pics of my system, if this forum supported HTML markup.

I've been asking for someone to explain why BD looks like the black levels have been washed and the colors are oversaturrated when they both use VC1 encoding.

Just so you know, the XA1 I have was pulled from a house because they upgraded to the XA2. Now, being totally honest, the XA1 is a complete hunk of s***. The A2 is an improvement but the XBOX drive blows them both away.

BD looks good but I have to turn the color level down and crank the contrast and turn on black level enhancement to get it to look realistic or as good as the same movie on HD-DVD. I've tried this on my projector, my DLP rear projection, a Philips plasma, and an HD CRT. Even my LCD, which has component inputs shows the difference. The plasma wasn't mine however.

Maybe it's the PS3, I'm not going to buy a second, dedicated BD player but I may get one from Best buy, beat the crap out of it, and return it on the 13th day.

Again, until you can see them going through an A/B switcher on the same monitor/projector with the default video settings, please quit posting your opinionated BS.

Benjamin,

I will agree the HD-DVD turn on and load times are pathetic. The XBOX HD-DVD is pretty quick though.

The PS3 does recognize and play BD movies about five times faster than either Toshiba. My biggest problem is I get artifacting that look like little crosses when there is a cut from one action scene to another. This has always been a problem for Blu-Ray.

First of all it is not a dieing format. Second of all that comment doesn't even make any sense. The format is dieing so they are going to brag about how good the picture is. Yah that makes sense.

They knocked $20 off not $100. You are again for about the 50th time this week spouting BS. Also your post is idiotic. You talk like them lowering the price is a bad thing. It is called competing. Maybe Sony should try it and then maybe their console wouldn't have the lowest sales numbers every month.

Also on your last sentence you are twisting words. Microsoft said if the HD-DVD format was to fail then they would come out with a Blu-Ray drive.

Ok so what other BS do you have for me today? I know you are probably going to post some since you can't make a post without it.

Microsoft Admits Xbox 360 Blu-Ray Support Possible

http://www.gamasutra.com...s_index.php?story=13253

And personally, any site that rates a player that takes a whole 2 minutes to boot up, as the best of class, is clearly either in denial, or being paid..

Steve you really are desperate.

If you read the full interview this comes from you'd see the guy was asked if he could ever see any circumstances in which MS might go down the BD route - in other words if a stack of highly unlikely 'ifs', 'buts' & 'maybes' came into play.

Being a grown-up (as opposed to the ridiculous propagandist/fanboy element - yeah, I know you're just not used to a CE industry guy speaking anything but 'company line propaganda but hey-ho it happens) he merely said 'never say never'.

Which is nothing like what you're trying to imply here.

......but your desperate hope MS might move to shore-up BD is perfectly clear all the same.

Interesting.

"it's product quality, consistency, and most importantly, COMPATIBILITY and CONVENIENCE that matters these days. "

Shame Toshiba drives arn't very convinient then. 2 Minutes to start up, before you can play a movie. My old PC boots up quicker than that, and a darn sight quieter too...

LOL.

Anyone who claims one format’s picture quality is better than the other’s based on disc capacity is a schill. Picture quality has to do with encodes, not formats. A VC-1 encoded movie will look the same on HD-DVD as it does on Blu-Ray.

I find VERY HARD to believe both camps have sold an almost identical number!!!

Just feed pablum to the masses!!!

LMAO.
Information showing BD has barely managed to pull any kind of lead on HD DVD is 'proof' to the delusional fanclub that HD DVD is 'dead'.
Wow, talk about a weird form of death.

The very fact that BD have a 'lead' of only 1.2 million verses 0.998 million shows just how little impact the PS3 has had and what a total failure it has been in pushing BD retail movie disc sales.

The fight starts for real later this year.

It'll be a fight for the grown-up's a/v market, not some child or adolescents mere games console.

It starts for real when the inexpensive Chinese HD DVD players arrive later this year.
Besides the Walmart deal we already have 3 other Chinese manufacturers coming.

Right now a sub $200 - or less - HD DVD player by X-mas 2007 is looking more and more like an underestimated certainty, not mere speculation.

BD simply cannot match those prices.

April is already showing the retail movie disc gap narrowing - they can only launch the PS3 once and after the expected brief spike (helped by poor availability of games & things like the 7 x $10 money off vouchers etc) the solid sales of the HD DVD standalones is making the difference and they are closing the gap.

BD standalone sales are laughable in comparison, it really has become utterly reliant on the PS3, a PS3 proprietary format no less.

No wonder so many of the previously 'BD exclusive' hardware manufacturers have either abandoned that 'exclusive' position or are in the process of giving it serious consideration.

There are at least 2 other big name Japanese companies on the verge of following the LG & Samsung move away from 'BD exclusivity' this year.

When HD DVD player numbers take off later in the year expect disc sales to climb much higher and some of those 'BD exclusive studios' to follow the example set by the 'ex-BD exclusive' hardware manufacturers.

As the head guy at Universal said, when each format can 'fight' over several titles that have peak week sales in the several hundred thousand then we'll be seeing a real 'war' - as opposed to the current mere handful from each that have ever made peak week sales of a few thousand.

......although quite frankly if this is to be the best PS3 can manage it may be that BD never gets to that kind of level and it is HD DVD that will 'win' the a/v war without much of a fight at all.

(BTW haven't heard the 'BD insiders' claiming Universal are set to abandon HD DVD for a while, remember how they tried telling everyone it was happening with head guys being sacked and the contracts had/were expiring and not being renewed around last X-Mas, what happened there then......the 'BD insiders' caught out for the full of lying BS sad sacks they are, again, huh?)

Toshiba employee of the month...

Congratulations, enjoy your job whilst it lasts, as pretty soon, HD-DVD will be the new Betamax...

@ Benj - You misspoke again. You meant to say the new Betamax will be Beta-ray blue.

Considering that Sony did BetaMax and is now doing Blu-ray.. I doubt it.

Do you like people who charge high royalties? Are you wishing to be the Sony Employee of the month?

Nevermind, when the facts are just too inconvenient for you just try and claim I work for one side or other in this.

Pathetic.

Actually I'm retired if you must know.
I have no existing or previous connection to any CE company in any way.

I'm a regular paying punter with a keen interest in a/v stuff that has been thoroughly pi**ed off with the lying BS coming from the BD side in this.
Deal with it.

Of coure, you could argue that Sony learn alot from Betamax commercial failure, and that many things have changed. For example, this time around, it's Sony with all the media studios under it's wings (including many it bought itself, Sony Pictures, Paramount, and Sony Music empire), and HD-DVD out on a limb with little media (and hardware) industry backing.

The fact that Sony made Betamax, so Blu-Ray must therefore fail, it totally flawed. The Betamax relemblance here is truly in the HD-DVD camp, with it's shunned industry support.

Correction,

HD-DVD and BD will be the next Divx

*sigh* I am getting really tired of making you look like and idiot Benjamin. Thank you for doing it yourself.

The fact HD-DVD camp need to tell us they are still in the game, basically says it all..

HD-DVD is HD-DVDEAD....

I wonder if the 5 free HD-DVD movies with every Toshiba HD-DVD player are included in those statistics? I would imagine so, as it's only the HD-DVD camp themselves that are claiming to be anywhere near Blu-Ray these days, all other measurement metrics show Blu-Ray to have a massive lead..

I'll give you a few points for effort, but overall it was a very weak attempt. The key to successful trolling is to not be so blatantly obvious.

HD-DVD was dead the moment Microsoft made the HD-DVD optional on the 360.

How does this make any sense whatsoever? Microsoft did the smart thing by offering an optional component because whoever buys it it is a fact they are using it for movies, whereas the sony the same player is used for both, and in sony's***ory with their players using it for both dvds and games burns it out quicker.

Nice try, though

If HD DVD really was dead you 'Hydra' shills wouldn't put so much time and effort into raving about how dead it was.

How many 'PSP is/is not dead' threads do you see, huh?

I rest my case (and may it rest in peace :P ).

360 needs HD-DVD. Microsoft did not have the balls to include it, due to no faith in the HD-DVD.

Lets see in October, when GTA4 hits both platforms, the Blu-Ray PS3 version on 50GB disk, and the 360 version on 9GB DVD.... Which do we wonder will look better and play better..

(don't spout about the "360 exclusive content", as it's been confirmed by Rockstar that both the PS3 and 360 have exclusive (but different) content).

"360 needs HD-DVD."

- Rubbish. It has no such 'need'.

It's as simple as this, in the extremely rare instances that a game might 'need' more than the 8.5/9gb a single DVD9 can provide then you pack 1 or 2 more of those very inexpensive DVD9 discs.

You just do what you do with a PCs.
Load all the discs up once (now that multi-gb memory is common and growing) and then insert the one disc once when you wish to play.

The minority of Core owners without sufficent memory would just lose certain features until they get enough memory.

It's not exactly hard to work out and there is still no actual 'need' about it.

"Microsoft did not have the balls to include it, due to no faith in the HD-DVD."

- No.

They simply chose not to shaft the existing XBox 360 owners by moving to HD DVD based games for no good reason or the XBox360 HD DVD add-on base by forcing people to buy twice.

HD DVD is a purpose designed video media, unlike BD which is a bulk data storage platform (which is not quite the same thing).

"Lets see in October, when GTA4 hits both platforms, the Blu-Ray PS3 version on 50GB disk, and the 360 version on 9GB DVD.... Which do we wonder will look better and play better.."

- Given the economics involved I expect to see reviews which confirm an almost identical game on both or all platforms.....barring the BD version having loads of low quality FMV and other low-rent video clips.

"(don't spout about the "360 exclusive content", as it's been confirmed by Rockstar that both the PS3 and 360 have exclusive (but different) content)."

- Exactly, each will have a couple of inconsequential bells and whistles of their own but will be, to all serious intents and purposes, the same game.

Which is a pattern (because no one is going to add to their costs if they don't have to) you will see across the board - especially as the number of exclusive PS3 games is so small nowadays.

The rest of the games market is far too big for it to be otherwise.

You might see Sony do something interesting with it - once in a while. But 3rd party developers are extremely unlikely to spend a lot of money on such a small minority segment of the market.

The days of the PS being the majority of the market are over and right now they are not even the largest minority.

How suppose is it going to "play better" cos of Blu-ray? Since when wasnt 9GB for a game not enough?

How about when some Xbox games come on 3 DVD's (Blue Dragon for example).

Or perhaps when games need cut back textures to enable it to fit on 1 disc (Unreal on the 360).

Or perhaps when Games that look nice like Gears of War, have offline crippled content (5 hours woo)...

What a suprise post from the lemming. (Steve)

"Which is a pattern (because no one is going to add to their costs if they don't have to)."

Wrong, developers do their textures in Hi-Def, and include these for the PS3, they then downsample it as far as they need to to get them to fit on a DVD9.

Many 360 games are already suffering from texture reuse, where games simply use the same textures over and over each time, making very similar looking levels.

So, expect nice and big, varied, uncompressed HD textures on PS3, expect repetative low quality, highly compressed textures on the 360. As games get bigger, the problem gets worse...

what games you cannot be vague when arguing a point.

Don't ask such specific questions!

He only read that comment on-line in some BD fansite, you can't possibly expect details or examples.

Wow one game is on 3 DVDs. Lets go and put in an HD-DVD drive so we can combine the 1 game that uses 3 disc into one!!!!

Your second comment as usual comes with no proof.

Gears had an average offline. Nothing crippled about it. Also even if it was it would have been because of production cost and not space.

The fact of the matter is everybody does not want a HD movie player. In fact a VERY large amount of people don't even have an HDTV yet. So instead of cramming the drive down peoples throats that do not need it they made it optional. MS did the right thing and Sony messed up by forcing the BD player. The sales are showing it.

Ray you are again spouting BS. There is absolutely 0 proof of what you are saying above. Wanna know why? Because it is ubber and complete BS as usual.

zridling,

If you have seen HD-DVD at a Store like Best Buy, they purposely make it look s***ty and tell you it sucks. You need to do a side by side on the same monitor or projector with an A/B switcher.

If you ask about HD-DVD at a store like BB or CC they go on about Blu-Ray for ten minutes. This is the reason why I hate BD and Sony so much. When BD first came out, Best Buy had store meetings on how to steer people towards BD as oppsed to HD-DVD.

I heard this directly from an employees mouth.

I even sent Best Buy corporate an email and they called me back and asked me to identify the employee and the store he worked at.

**** Sony and thier Gustapo tactics.

Dave o meter - 616 posts and counting at blu-ray.com

Walmart will be the deciding factor.

Much like Vista, I wan to fast-forward and skip this entire generation of HD in favor of something better, faster, and more affordable — which will hit the market just as soon as I've updated my DVD collection!!

I've seen both up close and personal, and trust me when I say this: Blu-Ray is noticeably better (god, that hurts to say because Sony is such a sukjob of a company) and you can do more things with it. Those buying HD-DVD discs and players will be deeply disappointed by next Spring.

noticeably better? howso.

BLuray couldn't even do realy video overlay till they pushed out an update as an afterthought, it was faking it by having 2 copies of the same film orriginally, the 2nd having the 'overlay' hard coded into the media.
and how many people are being stuffed because they've not got the technical know-how to update, or maybe their player can't?

Id love to see how many Sony Players were sold without the PS3. HD-DVD does not include Xbox figures....

Because the Xbox isn't an HD-DVD player...?

Xbox 360 However CAN be, just like PS3 CAN be a Blu-Ray player ( it is primarily and can also be solely a console ).

Without consoles ( both Xbox 360 and PS3 ) for either count of players, it would show the true sales figures of STAND ALONE players.

Latz, SB

Unlike the 360 add on though, the PS3 is really the most affordable blu-ray player right now.

IF I was going to get a blu-ray player, it would be the PS3. They almost have to count it.

The add on however, while only used for movies is only cheaper if you already own a 360.

Or you can used the hacked drivers and plug it into your media center PC and play the movies through that.

Making it the cheapest solution for HD video playback :).

Latz, SB

I didn't have to get 'hacked' anything, as soon as I plugged the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on in my XP media centre PC went looking & found the correct drivers and had it working without me doing anything unusual.

PowerDVD (6.5, 7.1, 7.2 or 7.3 Ultra) all work beautifully with it.

With a HDCP display and graphics card it couldn't be easier.

It's the cheapest way into high quality high def there is......and with a decent connection cable you can easily hook up to your HD TV from your PC too.

Is there any way that we can get a recording of Dave, Ray, Benjamin, and a few others reading this article out loud? Now that is one that I would pay to see.

I chose to go with HD DVD with the Xbox 360 add-on. It stinks that both formats do not have full studio support. It's going to be tough whenever the Spiderman movies are released on Blu-ray since they are Sony movies.

Spiderman is just *one* movie. The only good movie franchise Sony has going for them. Eventually they will have no choice but to release it on HD-DVD anyway or end up losing a bunch of money. There was a time when Sony was arrogant enough and would hold out releasing on a competing format, even if it meant losing millions. They can no longer afford to pull that crap.

HD-DVD users would bring in a few more bucks, the real money is in DVD and Blu-Ray sales.
HD-DVD is doomed. And there is no reason anyone would support HD-DVD other than due to some personal business interest to push it. No normal user would tell that a 15GB/30GB optical disc is better than a 25/50GB one.
And the 3-layers HD-DVD thing is just a pathetic joke which will never work correctly and blank media will be unreliable and too expensive anyway.

"HD-DVD is doomed."

- Oh really?
Got saturdays lottery numbers whilst you're on a roll with this fortune telling lark, hmmmm?

"And there is no reason anyone would support HD-DVD other than due to some personal business interest to push it."

- Of course; no one with a genuine interest in a/v and movies would ever take an interest in HD DVD, a multi - international - award winning a/v item of such a high standard of excellence.

......or perhaps it's only an obvious shill with an interest in the competitor that would ignore the truth of the matter and make such patently absurd, infantile, ignorant and idiotic comments, hmmmmmm? :P

You guys just can't help yourselves can you?

" No normal user would tell that a 15GB/30GB optical disc is better than a 25/50GB one."

- Right up until they realise that aside from backing up some BD MPEG2 movies they don't actually need that slight capacity difference.....

....and that if they really and truly do have such a need then HD DVD is shortly to offer the bigger size anyways (51gb).

Both represent such a leap in capacity over current disc media (and the majority of studios are now starting using efficient modern codecs that just do not need the BD size anyways) that these comments are simply ludicrous.

"And the 3-layers HD-DVD thing is just a pathetic joke which will never work correctly and blank media will be unreliable and too expensive anyway."

- Ah, more fortune telling.

Like you'd know.

You also better hope that at the prices they are that DL BD50 media is reliable and that they really have got all the bugs out of it cos otherwise they'll make for massively expensive coasters.

"HD DVD, a multi - international - award winning a/v item "

LOL...

Where do they get these people...

So why are we buying HD-DVD or Blu-ray movies?

I thought it was for High Def movies. Not for lots of storage space.

The storage argument holds no water when you compare HD-DVD to Blu-ray and see that all movies fit on both and look equally as good as each other.

What, you mean people that are actually aware that HD DVD has won awards in the USA, Japan and Europe for the high quality pieces of kit that they are?

Oh dear, unable to face the facts and truth again, huh?

Hocus don't you know that facts and truth are not aloud!!! O wait nevermind that is just the Sony fanboys philosophy. WARING TO SONY FANBOYS. If you try to dispute this I WILL be bringing out the multiple times I have proven you wrong in the past few weeks. So word of advice. Just do like you always do and avoid this post :).

Where's Dave so he can make an a** out of himself with his usual post littered with the word "FUD"?

I cant wait to see his brilliant insight, which I'm sure is the benefit of a classical education.

By the way, we want to see a picture of your *ahem* vaporware Blu-Ray player. Myself as many others here think you are 100% full of s*** and probably a locked down fly boy.

Go standard DVD.

All of my rants will now end with the Dave-o-meter showing how many post he has on the forum at blu-ray.com just because I like to bust balls.

Dave posts - 615 and counting.
http://forum.blu-ray.com/member.php?u=1691

Wow..

That guy is a mindless retard.

Sony could sell s*** and he'd buy it like it was gold.

DaveBG is pretty retarded too. Just look at the context of his posts and you can see the stupidity behind them.

Sony and the Blu-Ray camp *have* to include PS3 sales as part of their numbers. Otherwise they would just look silly. Just because they forced a BD player down everyone's throat with their PS3, it doesn't mean people buy it to play movies on it. On the other hand, every HD-DVD player sold, including the Xbox360 add-on is used for playing movies.

I thought many PS3 games are also coming in at 15 to 25 GBs...that is why the Blu Ray is not just something that is unused. Whereas Xbox360 games are on standard capacity DVD?

It's already been shown, that PS3 owners DO buy Blu-Ray movies.

The PS3 Blu-Ray was not shoved down anyones throats, the PS3 needs a Blu-Ray drive, the 360 also needs one. This is becoming increasingly evident, with games like GTA4 being inferior on the 360 due to the limitations of DVD9 (lower textures, smaller map). When proper cross platform 360/PS3 titles start coming out, watch how crappy with the 9GB 360 versions start looking compared to the 50GB PS3 versions.....

Lower textures have nothing to do with the need for blu-ray or Hd-Dvd. The space gets used mainly by cut scenes and things like that. Code for games is not that huge to warrant that kind of space. I would rather have a good game then one made of mostly fluff cut-scenes. Funny how some of the best games made fit on cart. Some people are so biased that they are blind to the truth about code size amd stprage size needs.

I have both new HD formats and I favor the HD over Blu-ray. I find the contrast to and black levels to be slightly off on the blu-ray side. The format war is far from over since it is way to early in the game. I am wating for Sony to implement their patent that ties movies to a player. I believe they will activate this later in the game. Sony is a company that would and will screw the consumer, their track record proves that.

It is not an uncommon tactic to use dummy files or duplicate files to make the data load faster. This is really needed for BD since the load time is so slow compared to SD

Are people still talking about this...

FACT: Oblviion on 360 also had to duplicate data on the disk... The developer admits this.

So, BOTH the 360 and PS3 duplicate game data on the disk, but the PS3 has much faster load times, despite higher quality textures..

How does than work then???

http://www.google.com/se...vion%20duplicate%20data

I see lots of stories on how they were forced into duplicating data to compensate for blu-ray inadequacies, no mention that they'd done this for the 360.

FACT: you are still a moron

source

http://www.betanews.com/..._in_the_Game/1177544785

You cannot put FACT in all caps without citing a source otherwise its your opinion or you are a raving fanboy, whichever comes first.

PS3 also had an extra 6 month window for development, tweaking and slight improvements. Not a great comparison when talking about "higher quality textures" or load times for that matter.

Given another 6 months, I'm sure the 360 version would have been better too.

I am amazed at how some people are so blind to the fact that other technology out there is just as good or better then their beloved fav.

Like I stated before I am very concerned about Sony's concept to lock disks to hardware. That would be very bad even for the Sony fanboys that want to trade things in for something else. Maybe that plan has been shelved but Sony's past tactics just scare the you know what out of me. So far they have not used this but, a firmware update may change everything.

"It's already been shown, that PS3 owners DO buy Blu-Ray movies."

- No one ever said that they never buy BD movies.

What (informed) people can say very honestly, as it is quite obvious from the numbers, is that they are not buying very many BD movies.

The PS3 BD attachment rate is appalling.....and considering how many PS3s are supposed to be out there their sales lead (when it exists at all) is quite pathetic.

Close the italics tag. ;)