dvd dos programas

Having 2 competing formats is killing/slowing early adopters. We can argue the pro's and con's till we are blue in the face, it's not gonna change anything. Will one format dominate, or will they end up living along side each other, only time will tell. I for one am unsure weather to wait or jump into one or the other formats?

New versions of either format may just comlicate teh issue further, especially if tehy are not backward compatible and/or the hardware (or at leastthe firmware) can be upgraded easily, i.e. over the internet and/or via a downlaod burn to CD). I've read about newer higher capacites form both camps.

In addition to this format war is the additional cost associated with moving to HD. Not everyone has or can afford the new HD TV's no matter how cheap the players and movies are. What I've not seen are figures on how many HD TV's are out there? What's the figures like 1 in 10 households have HD or maybe lower. Surely this will play a big part in this war too.

I also know lots of people able to get HD from other sources and therefore not interested in HD formats on DVD.

On top of this a lot of Americans have already been bitten by buying early HD ready TV's without a Digital input and 1/ might not be able to see the movie in HD without one. 2/ Even if they can see this in HD over Analogue, it's never going to look as good.

Yes HD does look far better than SD, but who cares? When SD-DVD images are so good (even more so in Europe where PAL is a slightly higer resolution than NTSC and wide-screen was adopted a long time ago as a standard for DVD's.

Content also play an issue here. For me personally I'd only be looking to use this format for films that would really benefit from this, i.e. Action and Sci-Fi, Documentries (i.e. Planet Earth). I don't have any wish to have some TV soap or chick flick etc.. on HD. I have a dedicated Cinema room to watch movies with the FULL cinema experience, and everything else we watch on an old SD CRT (of course trhis will be upgraded to HD but only when it packs up).

It would also be great if the capacity of these HD systems could be used to reduce the number of discs for a series, but using SD. i.e. a whole series on one disc etc..

Anyhow that's my tuppence worth. I don't see this ending in the near future which is a shame for the consumer.

so i wonder does this format war hype help or hurt hd disk adoption?

is yes really that obvious or just low hanging fruit?

Big HD DVD news coming at CEDIA! HD DVD has this one folks, time to buy an HD DVD player. :)

I already knew about this. I'll be there from Wednesday to Saturday.

BD shills are going to freak out.

I see a few people stating that Blu-ray is starting to catch up to HD DVD in audio and picture quality, but this is old, old news. HD DVD was surpassed by blu-ray in PQ and AQ a long time ago.

Here are some actual stats as of August 3rd, 2007.

There are 154 Blu-ray titles in North America with lossless audio.

There are 43 HD DVD titles in North America with lossless audio.

If you look at five of the main review sites for Blu-ray and HD DVD; Home Theater Forum, DVD Talk, Upcoming Discs, Home Theater Spot and High Def Digest, and add up all the reviews there are just over 900 HD DVD reviews and just over 900 Blu-ray Disc reviews. Here are some breakdowns from those numbers.

SQ Studio
4.38 Buena Vista
4.12 Sony
4.08 Fox
3.81 Lionsgate
3.81 Paramount
3.63 Warner
3.63 Universal
3.63 Weinstein

Notice how the two HD DVD exclusive studios have the lowest average SQ rating.

As for Picture Quality:

PQ Studio
4.19 Buena Vista
4.02 Paramount
3.95 Warner
3.94 Sony
3.84 Fox
3.80 Weinstein
3.73 Universal
3.66 Lionsgate

Averaging all the reviews to compare formats gives the following numbers.

Picture Quality overall
HD DVD - 3.85
Blu-ray - 3.94

Sound Quality overall
HD DVD - 3.67
Blu-ray - 3.96

As you can see the difference in sound quality is huge. When you have 48 Mbps bandiwdth for a/v versus the 30.09 Mbps bandwidth that HD DVD is limited to, things happen.

With substantially higher average bit rates on VC-1 and AVC/MPEG-4 encodes and 8 Mbps bandwidth left over above the peaks for audio encodes, Blu-ray has the most consistent results.

Because of how much work goes into making a good looking encode on HD DVD thanks to the bandwidth limitations, as soon as you start trying to release many titles at once you are limited by how much help Microsoft can give you. The results become quite apparent. One need only look at Universal's offerings over the last two months to see how much the quality suffers. Sure we get a decent encode now and again like Hot Fuzz, but there have been far too many 2, 2.5 and 3 star reviews for Universal's catalogue titles while Sony and Disney release 4, 4.5 and 5 star catalogue titles time and time again.

Disney touts the bandwidth of Blu-ray as a big reason why their discs look so good. When you watch the lightning scenes in The Prestige the video peaks are around 39 Mbps. Then you have a 24-bit PCM track above that at 6.75 Mbps.

The sooner most people realise that Blu-ray is has the best potential of the two formats for the best looking HD and consistently delivers the better quality product, the sooner we have a chance of one format being mass acceptible and not stuck with another SACD/DVD-Audio situation.

I actually want to break the apparent tradition and say thank you. I respect the amount of research you put into that statement... well thought out, nicely worded, and a nice change of pace from most of the immature remarks made by the other Blu-ray fan(s) on this site.

However, I must ask if you meant to say "uncompressed" instead of "lossless" concerning the audio on available titles for both formats.

Huge difference? Think you posted wrong numbers, I dont see a 'huge difference.
I got another angle for you.
'Disney state their movies look so good on blu-ray because its the only dam format they release in other than the standard dvd'.
See how easy it is to spin things?

I think what needs to be done is for both parties to step back, and then work together to implement a new format using the best features of both disks. The HD format is something that, when it becomes popular, will be around for a while so they have to make sure they get it right.

Codec wise, as far as I am concerned only one should be used for HD content on a HD disk. Thats not to say they shouldn't be able to play MPEG-2 on HD disks, just release DVD's should be in one format. That format should be H264, as its the best format based on DCT (VC-1, Xvid, Divx, WMV, and almost every codec out there is based on DCT). Unfortunately, many implementations of h264 have not been very good, including those used on HD disks which is unfortunate. A proper implementation of h264 is more efficient, and will look better at the same bitrate as VC-1. Don't think its bad just because implementations such as with the latest Quicktime is very poor that its a poor codec (the Quicktime version is such poor implementation its essentially a hybrid xvid/h264 codec).

Sound wise, AAC should be used. AAC has a very good coding efficiency, and if used correctly won't sound any different even to the audiophile to uncompressed sound. I just don't think there's any point wasting the space just because its there!

There should also be a requirement that they have more decoding power than that actually required. That way new features that may be added in the future will still work with a firmware update. One such update in a few years could be an upgrade to a Wavelet based video codec. They're still in development, as is the principal, but its coding effiency should allow the possibility of increasing the resolution for new screens that may appear in the future (there are 2 types of screens set to replace LCD and plasma in the near future).

"I think what needs to be done is for both parties to step back, and then work together to implement a new format using the best features of both disks."

- If there's one thing that would absolutely kill everything off it's a move to 'start again'.
That's not going to happen.

" The HD format is something that, when it becomes popular, will be around for a while so they have to make sure they get it right."

- HD DVD has got it right.
The prices are set to fall to substantially lower than $200 in the USA this X-mas.

There's no need to do anything radical.

The longer term strategy that has always been HD DVD's is just about to pay off.

It was Blu-ray that scr*wed up placing all their eggs in a game console basket.
Tough luck for them and good riddance to their anti-consumer BD+ BS.

If you encode a movie in H.264, proper implementation, with high quality AAC sounnd, you can fit a high definition movie on one DVD-9! proper implementation is the key, VC-1 just has a slight upper hand because there's only one implementation... Microsoft.

EDIT: Never mind... I had to re-read your post to understand what you were suggesting. The second time actually made me giggle.

I actually agree with you. Much of this so-called "war" is just hype built up by those that wish to convince others that they will not enjoy their movie experience unless they buy what they wish you too.

This reminds me of the Firefox, IE, Opera "war" that still goes on today, the Mac and PC, as well as the XBox360 and PS3. The fact of the matter is that I, personally, will enjoy my movie experience, much like my Internet, and computer - on my terms, the way I like it.

Oh, some will get convinced one format is better over the other, but consumers have shown that they buy what they feel is necessary for them, and the people that are passionate about format, browser, console, and PC reside only here in these forums.

Quite frankly, I don't see the difference other than in technical data on the two formats and most consumers wont either. It will be features that they offer that will help sway their decision. (If that) Comparing the two is similar to Apples and Oranges. If you like apples great, oranges great too, but it is a matter of preference and I see a need for both formats just as we have options for many other luxuries in life.

Though feeling passionate for something is good at times, I wish some would just move on.

My Opinion Only

well said

I agree, well-said.

However...

"...but it is a matter of preference and I see a need for both formats just as we have options for many other luxuries in life."

The examples of your comparisons offer significant unique features and benefits between two or more of the different products, unlike Blu-ray and HD DVD.

Comparing these two formats is almost the same as going to a movie theater that is showing the same movie on two screens at the same time... the only difference being one has blue seats, the other has red... and the one with blue seats is slightly larger.

That is why I do not see a need for both, just as the existence of multiple types of recordable DVD media has never been necessary.

Its Obvious by simply lookin at each formats capabilities tha blu ray is superior, however... when you boil it down to implementation and cost effectiveness...hd-dvd is better, its cheaper for a very small cut in performance... so it should be a simple choice for th consumer of what they want..and not what the big corporations want to put out...if they have to charge more for blu ray then do it, if people want the extra performance that bad theyll pay for it...but yet again..the player is exensive ..i think once the superformat players come out into an afforable range..that having both formats available will be a nice touch...espicially once you can start using bluray for PC based data storgae...who wouldnt wanna back up 50gb of stuff to ONE disc? i would

"Its Obvious by simply lookin at each formats capabilities tha blu ray is superior"

- Er, no it's not.

Only the most superficial understanding of bitrates has it BD is 'superior' by having a theoretically higher bitrate limit (which was really just all about their continued use of MPEG2).

Similarly the 'greater capacity' idea is simply wrong too.
HD DVD have formally submitted the 51gb disc to the DVD Forum (something you do not go to the trouble of doing unless you're pretty damned sure you'll get approval).

So, not only will HD DVD be able to provide greater capacity, it has modern codecs that provide second to none image and sound quality and now has the greater amount of available content and exclusive content.

When the HD DVD PC burners show up we'll also be more likely to be able to have media that is sanely priced (once the initial 'early adopter' prices vanish) as the technology is so closely related to DVD5/9s - as opposed to BD where yields - particularly on the dual layer 50gb discs - are low and push prices very high - even with subsidy.

While I agree with you that HD-DVD is vastly superior to Blu-Ray on the software side, Blu-Ray discs themselves are very superior to HD-DVD discs. In order to get significantly more capacity than 30GB on HD-DVD a third layer on the disc is required. Toshiba themselves have stated that they are not sure that triple layer discs will be compatible with all HD-DVD players.

It should be noted that HD-DVD's superior audio and video quality is likely to be short lived. Sony and other movie studios supporting Blu-Ray are silently remastering a significant amount of their Blu-Ray titles using VC-1 video compression and uncompressed 24-bit 96KHz PCM audio making Blu-Ray equal to HD-DVD for the most part. The only problem is telling the remastered Blu-Ray titles apart from the first ones since the packaging is not being modified.

Nice way of sticking it to the early buyers.

"Toshiba themselves have stated that they are not sure that triple layer discs will be compatible with all HD-DVD players."

- I'd say that this rests on 2 things.

First up is what is meant by 'compatible'.
All HD DVD players can read the new 17gb per layer disc's 1st and 2nd layers.
It is still unclear whether the very earliest players will be able to read the 3rd.
That is all (this is a matter of fact one can see in the specs of the very first HD DVD drives).

There is also no sign whatsoever of the movie business wanting or needing to move beyond the existing 2 layer discs - but undoubtedly the extra headroom the new 34gb DL discs will give will be welcomed for adding a little more content.

The 2nd issue is how they choose to use the TL disc.
I suspect it will be mostly used for PC drives when they appear.

If you are one of the relatively small number of people with a gen 1 HD DVD player then you may find TL discs are only readable to the 1st & 2nd layers, so you are not left behind but neither can you use them......that doesn't seem like such a big deal to me or in any way 'nasty' for gen 1 owners.

The only benefit of triple layer HD-DVD discs for movies will be for box sets like the Matrix HD-DVD box set to reduce the amount of discs in the set. Otherwise, when it comes to computer data storage Blu-Ray has long had an advantage by having more capacity per layer.

While HD-DVD is by far the best format for movies, the technology is rapidly reaching its end of life for computer data storage if it can't store more information than 35GB on a dual layer disc.

Currently, there is really no point in getting the HD-A2 or HD-A20 HD-DVD players if it's a choice between a first and second generation player since the HD-A20 incorrectly deinterlaces 1080i video in order to get 1080p video and the HD-A2 is nothing more than a slightly faster performing version of the HD-A1 player.

"It should be noted that HD-DVD's superior audio and video quality is likely to be short lived. Sony and other movie studios supporting Blu-Ray are silently remastering a significant amount of their Blu-Ray titles using VC-1 video compression and uncompressed 24-bit 96KHz PCM audio making Blu-Ray equal to HD-DVD for the most part. The only problem is telling the remastered Blu-Ray titles apart from the first ones since the packaging is not being modified."

Amen does the HD-DVD Crowd not even acknowledge this equalizing of content quality?

And who cares about content download I watch the DISC for the movie not its special features. If I want to watch a trailer I’ll get on my computer. (Some special features are good don’t get me wrong) but with content download so easy on the P3 and the 360 why does it matter.

As far as capacity... When you compare on a layer to layer basis, Blu-Ray will always have much more capacity... Blu-Ray does in two layers what HD-DVD does in three.... so if Blu-Ray were to-do a three layer disc.....

Sure the HD-DVD discs may cost less because they are based on the same technology as the DVD... But does anybody get Ticked Off when there DVD skips because of finger prints or scratches????? Isn’t it great that HD-DVD had a chance to fix this and choose to ignore it while Blu-Ray has a scratch resistant fingerprint resistant underside?

You wanted me to expound my opinion because I was being naive for judging on space alone. Comments?

The blu-ray crowed cared about content when they ranted about the larger capacity in the early days

"The only benefit of triple layer HD-DVD discs for movies will be for box sets like the Matrix HD-DVD box set to reduce the amount of discs in the set."

- Yeah I keep hearing people saying this but I don't think it's going to happen (with any format).

People like multi-disc editions - it makes them feel like they have got their money's worth (as customer surveys prove time and time again).

" Otherwise, when it comes to computer data storage Blu-Ray has long had an advantage by having more capacity per layer."

- That's hardly correct if we are going to get 51gb burners and they are stuck with 50gb.

(the had major problems getting 50gb dual layers to work and they're having major probelms going beyond that)

"While HD-DVD is by far the best format for movies"

- This is true......it is after-all a purpose designed video storage medai as opposed to Blu-ray which is primarily a bulk data storage medai (and yes there is a difference).

"the technology is rapidly reaching its end of life for computer data storage if it can't store more information than 35GB on a dual layer disc."

- Since when?
Given that most people are still using DVD5 (& to a lesser extent DVD9) in vast numbers how on earth could a physical medai offering 17, 34 & 51gb storage be called 'out of life'?

If HD DVD does win out in the PC & a/v market it will offer a huge leap on existing abilities.
To pretend otherwise is just ridiculous.

It might be fair to point to moves to go beyond physical media but people like their physical storage, the massive leap HD DVD offers over today's abilities for storage is not going look "outdated" for a long time.

"Currently, there is really no point in getting the HD-A2 or HD-A20 HD-DVD players if it's a choice between a first and second generation player"

- If you want now you buy now & take the risks attendant with early adoption.

Failing that wait a month and get an A3.

But we can also consider that the A2 is an excellent piece of (award winning) kit (just as the XA1 was in 2006) -

Electronic House magazine named both the Toshiba 57LX177 Cinema Series REGZA HD LCD TV and the Toshiba HD-A2 HD DVD as 2007 Products of the Year, the manufacturer said Tuesday.

"We are thrilled to receive two Product of the Year awards from Electronic House," said Maria Repole, Toshiba's director of corporate communications. "Their recognition is further proof that our REGZA LCD TVs and HD DVD players are leading the way in high definition products for today's connected home. In fact, our market share in the LCD TV market has grown exponentially and our HD DVD players are dominating in dedicated high definition player sales."

According to Electronic House, the awards are based on product demos and feedback from both installers and users. Entries are judged on criteria including technological innovation, overall value, lifestyle benefits and overall features.

"Both the 57LX177 and HD-A2 stood out from the crowd for their innovative technology and ability to create an outstanding high definition entertainment experience," said EH editor-in-chief Cindy David.
http://www.pcquote.com/s...964292/?tagged=newswire

"since the HD-A20 incorrectly deinterlaces 1080i video in order to get 1080p video"

- If you're really going to go off on one over 1080i/1080p (which is IMO like hotly debating how many Angels can be dancing on pins at any one time if you ask me) then get the XA2.

Or failing that wait a month and get an A3, A30 or A35

" and the HD-A2 is nothing more than a slightly faster performing version of the HD-A1 player."

- ......and what?

It's an excellent upscaling SD DVD player, a very fine HD DVD player and is excellent value for money and becoming more so with each passing month.

HD DVD offers plenty over Blu-ray.

HD DVD has more available content.
HD DVD has more exclusive content.
HD DVD offers a proper range of players at a sane range of price points with an 'entry point' that is set to dip well below $200 this X-mas.

Not forgetting all the other stuff about how HD DVD uses existing tried and tested DVD technology to ensure ease of manufacture, supply and competitive pricing.

.....and HD DVD doesn't have BD+.

The Toshiba HD-A2 HD-DVD player's video processor is no better than the HD-A1's. It's very likely (not 100%) that it's the same one. Even though both players have excellent video quality at 1080i, they both still have poor 720p video quality. Not good since most HD flat panel displays incorrectly deinterlace 1080i video.

Also, all of the major bugs in the HD-A1 player except for the slow performance have been fixed with firmware updates including the audio dropouts and the loss of audio/video synchronization which both occur when using HDMI.

As for computer data storage, most people want removable media that is 100% backwards compatible with first generation optical disc drives. All first generation Blu-Ray drives can read the full capacity of 50GB Blu-Ray recordable discs. The same can't be said for first generation HD-DVD drives.

I don't get this whole war thing. Is it really that hard to pick the best one? Personally I think the one with most storage capacity should be the winner.

CD 700, DVD 4.7GB/9.4GB, HD-DVD 15GB/30GB, Blu-Ray 25GB/50GB.

That has nothing to do with it. You seem to missing the most important aspects of the formats and they are many. What do they have to offer. Looking at just size is very naive.

"What do they have to offer. Looking at just size is very naive."

And there you have it... The difference between teens, and mature adults...

Ok what ever you say, you responded with nothing of content. Blu-ray offers more size so what, nothing is being done with it. HD has interactive disks with downloadable content does blo-ray offer this? No, why there set top boxes don't even have a ethernet port. At least some of them don't to my knowledge.

Your response is the one that is childish since you posted nothing of of value just a childish attempt at an insult.

Maybe you should do a little research as to what HD can do that blu can't at this time and you will know better next time.

But then again blu does have a java which is runored to carry a license fee. No thank you.

Okay there are two aspects... Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD and then HD vs DVD... HD sales are only 1% of the DVD market because nobody wants to buy something that wont be worth anything later because the other format won.. I'd have bought into the market months ago if I new which one would win. I have half decided to chip in on the blu-ray side because it looked like they were going to win (and i like the added capacity). The point is the competition is hurting HD sales. (Which is what "Microsoft wants")

Man, Hollywood__ is getting the shaft on -1 scores. Not only am I devistatingly handsome, but I have a rapist wit.

I'd love to see a +1 next to one of my idiotic posts..... just once.

Rapier wit. As in the blade.

Ya goofy SOB...

"Tell her I have a rapist wit" - Lloyd Christmas - Dumb And Dumber.

I'd just like to say.......

......ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha......

to all those daft enought to buy into that idiotic lying BS that a kiddies game console was going to 'win' the adult a/v market.

Of course you're not at war. It's over as of today. Glad I bought a crapload of HD-DVD's vs BD movies.

I probably did that because they look and sound better than Blu-Ray.

...and all was quiet in Sony zealot land. Nothing was stirring, not even a mouse!

I wouldn't say it's quiet, more like fits of rage, despair and denial. Check out Steve Austin's post in the other thread, you can tell he's quite upset. :)

So much for the shills saying HD only has one exclusive studio which was a lie then and even a bigger one now. Is that the same dreamworks that made Saving Private Ryan? If so that is way beyond great news. This will make things look green for HD but not for the supporters since we actually buy movies.

Actually, Paramount's press release mentioned that any Paramount/Dreamworks films directed by Steven Spielberg are not exclusive to either format.

Currently, the only Spielberg film announced for either HD format is Close Encounters of the Third Kind, and it's a Blu-Ray exclusive.

I heard Paramount went HD-DVD exclusive just to spite Steve / Dave. I could be wrong.

BluRay ShmuRay, HD PD LD AT&T JD KT, on and on. I watch my regular DVDs on my regular DVD player on a regular 26" LCD HD-TV, What's not to like? Wake me up when hologram movies hit the shelves.

At 26", probably not a whole lot, but on larger sets its a big difference.

While I agree with you, I think the point (of the article and his post) was that if people don't see a reason to change or upgrade, they will not. For far too many people, DVD is good enough, especially with upscalers for those fortunate enough to have HD-capable sets. Both formats have a ways to go... and no, I do not care which format wins to be quite honest. There should be just one anyway, I think.

Maybe that's why HD hasn't really impressed me that much, I've only seen it in stores like Wal-Mart and the sets they usually have aren't really that large. I'll have to check out some big screen HDTVs sometime.

Sure, put it on a 50". I am sure it's affordable for everyone, not to mention how affording housing and rent.

Yes, you are right, in a way. As a photographer I can tell you that the bigger the print the father away it should be looked at. It's relative to size and distance.

Check out the display on a good TV and you truly be amazed at the picture. Don't look at the cheap TV's as many look good but not excellent. I have a Mits and love the DLP picture. I would not look at Samsung since they are not good quality.

Samsung not good quality??? What country are you in that has bad quality samsung TV's??

shouldn't this article have had the little Viewpoint: disclaimer as it is spimply providing more speculations and has very little facts?

You should try reading it again, maybe you will notice the article is citing specific people and their opinions.

Instead of sniping, why don't you cite examples?

Hi Ed, did I ever tell you how handsome I though you are?

Los Angeles, CA, August 20, 2007 - Paramount Pictures, a unit of Viacom Inc. (NYSE: VIA and VIA.B) and DreamWorks Animation SKG (NYSEWA), each announced today that they will exclusively support the next-generation HD DVD format on a worldwide basis. The exclusive HD DVD commitment will include all movies distributed by Paramount Pictures, DreamWorks Pictures, Paramount Vantage, Nickelodeon Movies and MTV Films, as well as movies from DreamWorks Animation, which are distributed exclusively by Paramount Home Entertainment.

I feel a change in the force.

source?

as well as I guess the whole idea that the relationship between viacom and sony is the reason behind blockbuster backing blu-ray was purely fanboy excuses.

Sure, I'll bite... but it's not like you pay attention to sources anyway. Asking for sources is getting to be a pretty lame crutch you Sony fanbois lean on way too much.

Source: Paramount Pictures; DreamWorks Animation

http://biz.yahoo.com/prn...70820/aqm122.html?.v=16

Nothing a little Googling can't accomplish... after 10 years some people still can't grasp the concept of search engines?

http://news.moneycentral...20070820&id=7346562

Excellent, more great movies coming to HD the better of the formats.

http://www.majornelson.c...ount-choose-hd-dvd.aspx

In the grand scheme of overall DVD sales (HD or otherwise), Blockbuster is barely relevant, and hardly capable of helping one format gain leverage over the other. If anything, I suspect they lost customers when they made that decision.

In any case I bet they're certainly questioning their decision now.

yeah this comes along with something you missed....the HD-DVD group had to PAY out the @$$ to get those studios....$150 million in total between Paramount and DreamWorks....and it does not cover any moves made by Steven Spielberg....

desperate move by Toshiba and it's HD-DVD group to save its format that is being outsold 2:1 in the US and worse in Europe...

So what? You think Sony never pays anyone to get their way? Oh and I love how all the Blu-Ray boys are saying "desperate move". Don't you just hate sour grapes, lol. As for them being outsold, if that's even accurate, looks like that's going to be changing now. Remember these are both niche formats that have barely any market penetration yet, saying one is out selling the other means jack squat right now.

Go have a snack and a good cry, you'll feel better.

If that is the case it all boils down to the future. Have you ever heard of return on investment, Sony does it all the time. You pay upfront for a payoff in the end. If it leads to one format winning over the other than any cost is worth it. Business does it all the time. Look at the exclusive with the Iphone. Think someone didn't pay for that!

You are just mad that the producers are jumping ship. Maybe they are noticing the attach rates of HD and sales rising as a cause. It all boils down to business and it is looking better for HD not mention the fact it is a better format with more options.

Exactly... with approximately 1.5 million PS3's in the U.S. and only a 2:1 lead over HD DVD in Blu-ray sales, sour grapes indeed. That ratio (theoretically) should be much higher.

Lets not go into retail incentives shall we?? nooo of course not. Its only a bad thing when HD-DVD does it. When HD-DVD has clearly spent more money than the blu-ray camp come back and complain, until then welcome to Business in a capitalist world