Here it is. Just downloaded and installed IE6 on my W2K Pro with IE5.5. Seems to be working okay so far.
ftp://ftp.kuzkray.ru/PUB/Internet/Clients/HTTP/Internet_Explorer_6_Beta_Build_2403.zip
Must warn though - the connection is lousy and you do need DAP, ReGet, GetRight or whatever, since the server does like to hang-up time to time.

I'm a bit of a newbie to all this but *need* IE6.... I run W95 (4.00.950 C) - is there anyway I can trick the setup to run? If there is no way due to the inherent differences between W95 and later OS then so be it. If so could someone explain it in layman's terms.

Thanks in advance ppl.

There is a patch for Whistler 2410. I gets rid of the 30 day trial limit and you dont have to put the serial number in. I tried it and it works. Had serious problems with Whistler 2416 though. Anyone tell me a good sit where I can get it. Someone did post a site here for it before but I think one some of the files were corrupt. For the patch goto http://astalavista.box.sk/ and in the searc box type in whistler 2410.

How the hell does RAR Work? I selected all the files to create ISO, and it doesn't work? Says that a file faild the CRC check?

rb-338.com Please could you try to post in your server IE6 (only) ?

IE6 Build2403 is available from http://bestweb.to/minisoft/

None of this is true.... The whole Whistler team is pissed. IE is really mad about this article. ITS ALL RUMOURS. You cant base fact on roumours.

Did you figure that out all by yourself?
Read some of the posts way down the page...
Btw, are you with the Whistler/IE theme?
I don't believe they're angry about it, they got Whistler/IE in the spotlight for free.

Broken mirror replaced by new (fast!) mirror...
Screenshots are still there.
Coming up: custom themes (with screenshots)

http://rb-338.com/whistler.html

wow, youre the man.

Well I decided to make a new page with some more content, so check it out :)
Same address..
Now with themes and FAQ, and of course the download and screenshots.

Dude, great link. And the mirror is fast. One problem. Files 18 - 25 are not there. Any clue?
THanks!

They're still all there.

click on Keep Broken files and it will not delete the ISo after it detects the CRC errors and it should keep the ISO and ready to be burnt any quewstions email me at DJKLUE98@prodigy.net

fast ftp thx man..

What happend
Can't download from that site and Some of the files are now gone

I got r00 - r09

Thanks to PICASSO for this 2416 WHISTLER Site!: ftp://216.205.156.15/images/botones/www.root/feedback/cz/

tx for taking this link from #win-whistler and posting it here, now its deleted

Give me your opinion..
So far do you think that this new os will be worth getting when its final? Better than 9x/me/nt/2000 etc..
and i found ie6 again for those who want it remember this is for nt only so not everyone will be able to use it. replt to this post and leave a email i'll send out the url.

Please send the URL to gregtemp@hotmail.com

Thanks!

wtmcgee@yahoo.com puleese!

What is the url of the beta tester log in site???????????

What version is on the website, Pro or Personal?
Thanks.

It's Professional build 2410.

Let's all thank Rb 338 for giving nothing but great slow servers to stop us from enjoying a great download =P

The server is fast.
It's just not fast enough for hundreds of people downloading 400 MB simultaneously.
You could have been searching for fast ftp's to help me instead of commenting my gift to you.

Hey RB, just wanna thank you for giving us a chance to play with this new toy. I dl Whistler in less then 20 minutes with my cable connection. Installed it, cracked the reg wiz, and now just enjoying it all. BTW, Whistler 2416 is out today, maybe in the future you will be kind enough to share it with all of us who are too poor to be a MSDN member. Again, TYIA, and never mind these idiots who do not appreciate generousity.

I'm not going to post 2416 for the simple reason that beta 2 is due in february so I'll wait for that one :)

I ran across this. It may or may not be of help to some of you.

WHISTLER
2410 CRACKS by shinebox
Courtesy of #winwhistler and Uncle Bill

DISCLAIMER: Nothing is guaranteed to work and if you choose to do this, it is at your own behest.

Here's some stuff you need to know before running Whistler 2410 Pro:

1)Before beginning your install, make *sure* you are not
connected to the network. Unplug your CAT5 from your Nic card, and
wait until you are done.

2)DO NOT use dynamic update when Install asks you if you want to do
this.

3)Once you have finished your install and boot Whistler for the first
time, you will go through a registration-type screen.
One of the steps asks you to set up your internet connection.

* Select your network connection
* Click NEXT
* You will have a choice to click next or to Skip. CLICK NEXT.
this will cause the wizard to crash. Click OK.

4) Click Start-Run- and in the dialog box type this EXACTLY:

regsvr32.exe -u regwizc.dll

You will see a confirmation window appear. Close it

5) Open Regedit by doing Start-Run-regedit

6) Under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsNT\CurrentVersion
change RegDone value to 1

7) Open Internet Explorer. Open the Tools-Internet Options dialogb box.
Change the default Home Page to something OTHER
than what is there, just NOT Microsoft or MSN. Click APPLY and OK.

8) Reboot your system. Before Windows starts up, plug your network
connection back in.

You should be good to go. Whistler 2410 Pro will run cleanly as far as I can tell
for quite some time.

CDKEY for 2410 = RBDC9-VTRC8-D7972-J97JY-PRVMG or F6PGG-4YYDJ-3FF3T-R328P-3BXTG

taken from: http://www.milnephotogra...oo/whistler_cracks.html

BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!! :-P Take that Microsoft!

Aw, whatever. You just know they'll take steps to circumvent this little trick in a future rel. OTOH, they could care less anyways....

I ran across this. It may or may not be of help to some of you.

WHISTLER
2410 CRACKS by shinebox
Courtesy of #winwhistler and Uncle Bill

DISCLAIMER: Nothing is guaranteed to work and if you choose to do this, it is at your own behest.

Here's some stuff you need to know before running Whistler 2410 Pro:

1)Before beginning your install, make *sure* you are not
connected to the network. Unplug your CAT5 from your Nic card, and
wait until you are done.

2)DO NOT use dynamic update when Install asks you if you want to do
this.

3)Once you have finished your install and boot Whistler for the first
time, you will go through a registration-type screen.
One of the steps asks you to set up your internet connection.

* Select your network connection
* Click NEXT
* You will have a choice to click next or to Skip. CLICK NEXT.
this will cause the wizard to crash. Click OK.

4) Click Start-Run- and in the dialog box type this EXACTLY:

regsvr32.exe -u regwizc.dll

You will see a confirmation window appear. Close it

5) Open Regedit by doing Start-Run-regedit

6) Under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsNT\CurrentVersion
change RegDone value to 1

7) Open Internet Explorer. Open the Tools-Internet Options dialogb box.
Change the default Home Page to something OTHER
than what is there, just NOT Microsoft or MSN. Click APPLY and OK.

8) Reboot your system. Before Windows starts up, plug your network
connection back in.

You should be good to go. Whistler 2410 Pro will run cleanly as far as I can tell
for quite some time.

CDKEY for 2410 = RBDC9-VTRC8-D7972-J97JY-PRVMG or F6PGG-4YYDJ-3FF3T-R328P-3BXTG

taken from: http://www.milnephotogra...oo/whistler_cracks.html

well i was only trying to thanks you guys out there who give us the ie6 beta and not trying to show you all how good i'm with my english!!!
you have to think again before you dammed,by the way who is really english,English??
i make english the way i want it to sound!!!
don't like it don't RAT it!!!
got that english specialist!!!!

For all you who have downloaded this version, it can only be used for 30 days before it goes dead. Because of their new anti-piracy system you have to register whistler 2410 over the net. Unless you have a program to scramble your isp I suggest you don't register it or you just might find the authorities knocking at your door. If there is a date patch I will post here. Until then I suggest you just use 2296 beta 1.

If you Know were can I Download IE6, just post it or mail me at virtuous@hotmail.com

Thx.

Can someone send me a link where I can download IE6 and/or
Whistler build 2416 plz

oino@earthlink.net

Don't you see it is ILLEGAL!!!
no one will upload anything if you want it become a tester personally I don't want/need it at all winME is just fine for me!
thanks!

"no one will upload anything"
Oh?
I do believe I uploaded something called Whistler...
And I did it because not everyone who wants Whistler has become a tester.
And I don't care if it's illegal...smoking weed is illegal, that doesn't mean I don't do it...

are you a tester, how much did you pay , how much is it ... its a lote of money, oh and if windows me is just fine for you then you are a joke any way. windows 2000 is the only windows any one should use , and trying to find out about Windows Whistler is the best way to know how its going to work and act , i want to know what im in for ! you suck

Once again the mighty monopoly continues to rear it's ugly head. Make a stand alone and charge people? Gates already has money coming out the wazoo, how much more than they need? You guys know all this by now, I'm just venting. Sorry......heh heh heh

Why don't you upload the files to one or more NBCi accounts and link them from your page....at least they are connected to T-3 Lines.

Hmmm or go to www.50megs.com and upload them there...

Why don't you do that yourself?

For one is was the rb guy offering downloads on his website of whistler 2410, so you should do a whois at www.internic.net and find out who hosts his page then report it to both beta site and his host!
I was just letting everyone know that they wasted all their time makin a big deal about it because a new build could be released any minute, and also it is not a leak because "whistler 2416 realeased" will be posted on this website within 24 hours anyway taking the place of this headline! thanks!

Quit acting like a little b****!!

Leave the guy alone, if you are gonna act like that and go "tattle tale" then at least find someone who has a final release posted!! This is a ****in beta program!! Get a life man, if you don't want to dl it from somewhere besides Microsoft, then stay on ms website & mind your own business. This person was just trying to do a favor for some people who can't afford a technet or msdn subscription just to check out some beta OS's. I think I speak for all in this post.....MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!

Erm, I'm not hosting Whistler on my servers...
Too bad :)

good luck a** wipe

How about YOU mind YOUR own business... if you aren't in the beta program, or if you don't have an MSDN/Technet subscription, then the beta is NONE of your business.

whistler 2416 just released

If you continue to leak this type of info, I WILL report you to the beta program.

That sounds like a good idea...

it's no harm to tell what beta phase it's in..

he's still leaking info, and it IS covered under the NDA (which it says on the windowsbeta website). And more than likely, is probably leaking something else.

Why don't you shut up CPUd***, you're such a nimrod.

Oh, I'm sorry, is the fact that I don't break the law annoying you? Get over it.

No, that's not it. It's you, in general.

You don't even have to be a tester to get information about the latest build. Just go to the WindowsBetaWeb, log in to Passport (with your Hotmail account) and go to the bug reporting site...the combobox usually has the latest build in it, which is currently 2416.

CPUGuy when are you going to know your role and SHUT THE HELL UP! Seriously, what they want to do is their business and what you want to do is yours. Don't act like some tough guy when you're probably some nerd that spends hours on the computer trying out the lastest s*** and thinking your 'cool'. Anyways, the x is back and he's watching over you. So just remember I'm always here :)

How about, you get a life, and quit trying to imitate some of the worst crap on TV?

And most of all, how about you, and everyone else on this site, quit breaking the law, and mind your own business, if you aren't on the beta team, or a technet/msdn subscriber, it's not your business, and you need to but out.

thank to u guy that put ie6 beta on the net for us,its a good thing to share and tou you MS you made a good product but you are ****ing selfish!!!!!
come on if its gonna be beta let eveybody who have a computer and wanna try it just have it!!!
do a survey and you see i'm right!!!
thanks to all the real good guys who have a real heart to share!!!
and ie6 is rocking all the way!!!

Where can I get this BETA? I tried Warez sites, but those places are absolutely useless...

Okay. Allow me to ask one simple little question: How many people that use this site can actually speak proper english? Or better yet, how many can speak english at all? or communicate in any language?

You people are sad.

and you annoy the living **** out of me...

Oh, and I do realize there are several people that can speak properly, and thank the Lord for them.

Okay. Allow me to ask one simple little question: How many people that use this site can actually b**** about anything?

You are sad.

and you annoy the living **** out of me...

Added screenshots of Whistler 2410 + IE6 + Media Player 8 to the website.
Whistler FTP still online!

http://rb-338.com/whistler.html

Can someone post more links to where we can get Whistler 2410!!

Thanks

no.

Sure!
Just get me fast servers that allow warez and I'll stuff them ;)

Does anyone know the minimum hardware requirements to run Whistler. Will it work on my 300Mhz, 32MB RAM machine? Or will I need 64/128MB or more RAM etc.

I don't know the requirements but you can get 64mb or ram for less than $50. Regardless of Whistler, I'd pick up some RAM.

Whistler Personal
===================
- CPU:
Maximum number - 1
Minimum speed - 233 megahertz (MHz)
Recommended speed - 300 MHz
- RAM:
Minimum - 64 megabytes (MB)
Maximum - 4 gigabytes (GB)
Recommended - 128 MB
- Hard disk space:
Minimum - 2 GB

Whistler Professional (32/64-bit)
===================
- CPU:
Maximum number - 2
Minimum CPU speed - 233 MHz
Recommended CPU speed - 300 MHz
- RAM:
Minimum - 64 MB
Maximum - 4 GB
Recommended - 128 MB
- Hard disk space:
Minimum - 2 GB

Whistler Advanced Server (32/64-bit)
===================
- CPU:
Maximum number - 8
Minimum speed - 233 MHz
Recommended CPU speed - 300 MHz
- RAM:
Minimum - 128 MB
Maximum - 8 GB
Recommended - 256 MB
- Hard disk space:
Minimum - 2 GB

Absolutely wrong. First of all, MS has not announced the official minimum requirements so this is just speculation. Anyway, the requirements you gave are too much (especially for Personal). I have used win2k in a p133/48 MB RAM and everything was fine

'Absolutely wrong'

Fine. Tell that to Microsoft, because I copied that piece of text right from Whistler's readme file.

I rest my case.

There has been nothing officially released yet.

I'd love to give this thing a shot. I'm not interested in using Whistler, only IE6.

I can be reached at hifi@sunflower.com

Here's a link to a Warez website that is in the state of updating links for Whistler 2410.

http://www.warez2dl.com/

Blargh I hate those kind of warez sites...
Not a single page without a popup and/or porn banner and always links that lead to sponsors and real links that are hidden...
I didn't make my page for nothing, you can just open it (ok, there's 1 popup window, so what ;)) and start downloading...no searching for links and clicking through banners to find it :)
Anyway, if this site is good it might take some of the ppl that were downloading from my site away so the server gets some free air.

The URL for lazy ppl that don't want to find it between all the other posts:

http:/rb-338.com/whistler.html

im sorry but once i down load all the files how do i put them to gether? can you help , sorry if i sound dumb

im sorry but once i down load all the files how do i put them to gether? can you help , sorry if i sound dumb

1. Download and install WinRAR
2. Open a file
3. Extract all content
4. Burn (with FireBurner) or extract (with WinImage) the ISO

WinRAR: http://www.rarsoft.com
FireBurner: http://www.fireburner.com
WinImage: http://www.winimage.com

RB can you Burn me a copy and I can get you a copy of Office 10 Beta 2 if you want to trade.

QiXx

RB can you Burn me a copy and I can get you a copy of Office 10 Beta 2 if you want to trade.

QiXx

I already have it, but thanks ;)

Hey rb-338, I keep getting disconnected on the last two files that I need to download. 2410.r25 and 2410.r24. Can you email these to me? If you can, let me know and I'll give you an email address without a size limit on it.

Hey rb-338 Is there a sibgle where there isn't many peeps downloading Whistler that much. If there is such a server like that can you post that one too..

Hey, I'm doing my best to keep it online...I've used 4 servers in 1 day.
Remember this isn't my job, it's just something I do for you guys :)

I know and we greatly appreciate you soing this for us. Thank you in advance!

What a bunch of pirates! I suppose you find it *fun* to break the law?

Ummm..... yes? :-)

You should try it sometime, it's really quite fun. You know not all laws are just laws, besides which, ask MS whether they *really* dislike people using pre-release copies of their software. Ask Bill what he really thinks.

I call it doing my homework. I'm in the market for a enw system and I'm deciding between a Mac and a PC. I want to see what the future has in store for the PC world before I plop down $5000+ on a mac. I'm fairly confident Mac OS X will ba a nice oS, especially for graphic design, which is what I do. I want to find out how serious Microsoft is going to take high-end professional users though.

of course M$ dont care. Look at it from both sides. People *steal* their software, making them work on new technologies/ it keeps em on their toes. On the oterh side of it, downloading windows or anyother s/ware from a *warez* site, isnt illegal in itsself, the person who supplied it is breaking the law, you are just tapping a resource. In a UK court of Law, this is perfectly admissable as *legal* :)

Exactly :)
And I didn't really supply it, because Whistler is not stored on my servers. I only have links to the files on a webpage, which is on my server, but who cares? :P
Besides, I too think that MS doesn't matter how many people are illegally getting a copy of Whistler, in fact I think they even like it that Whistler is so popular in the 'warez scene', because they get more testers...which means more bug submissions...and that's only a good thing.
With that in mind, I keep posting every new build of Whistler I can get, until someone important tells me to stop ;)

RB-338, can ya email me, chris@tipekans.com pls, i wanna chat 2 ya bout a 2nd server :)

P.S. ReBirth is a top DJ Prog ;o)

Has anyone thought of the free advertising MS gets from people in the warez scene? Warez guys/gals grab Whistler off a site and use it. If they happen to like it they may recommend it to some friends (honest people that will buy it so they have manuals and everything). Plus, if you have Whistler up on your machine and a friend stops in and sees it and likes it and then buys it, again it's free advertising. Do you really think Bill gives a s*** about free advertising?

i might add under a current U.S. law, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, simply providing a hyperlink to such material is illegal (as proved in the case of the MPAA v. 2600 Magazine)... now providing the links in plain text... that ISN'T illegal. ;-)

It is, however, illegal to have the software for more than 24hours, why? because you don't have a license to use that software.

Who says I'm still running it?

Aren't US acts just for people from the US?
If they are, then I'm ok :P

Even if you have still have the files, it is illegal.

That should be true, but unfortunately, isn't.
The guy who wrote DeCSS, in Finland, was arrested because he violated the DMCA.
How such garbage (DMCA) became law, I will only speculate as massive bribery....
What wonderful global reach the US law system has.

So is taking a leak outside, but has that stopped me? Hell, no.

So basically, you know that what you are doing is wrong, yet you continue to do it? That's smart.

Wow, I've never heard of anybody so self-rightous as you.
You must lead an extremely boring life.
You must have a very large, very heavy object stuck very far up your ass. Do us a big favor. Yank it out sometime.

Ok ... that's it. If they are even CONSIDERING not releasing a stand alone verions of IE6, I hope the justice department SCREWS THEM BIG TIME!!!!

Updated the Whistler 2410 download site..previous ftp went down.

http://rb-338.com/whistler.html

I guess no one else cares to share a link with us

I would never use a beta for my os anyway just get win2k or ME til a rc comes out

start menu-run-
regsvr32.exe /u regwizc.dll

RB-338, can you return the Whistler download? I'd like to d/l it but all the files have been moved. Eternally grateful!

They're still there. It might be slow though, it's having a lot of users at the moment ;)

What do I use to open the BIN Easy CD Creator, NERO CDRWIN? What do I use any suggestions?

FireBurner works fairly well and is free.
www.fireburner.com

Anyone know if this version of IE passes the infamous "Box Acid Test" that all the Mozilla freaks use as the base test of W3C compatibility?

We need another because that FTP server is too slow

Wanna have it?

http://rb-338.com/whistler.html

What kind of modem do you have? It must be really slow cause I have a cable modem and I only download at no more than 3 kb/s.

QiXx

I almost have it all downloaded. It took me quite a while.

I'm not running the server, but I have cable.
Btw, no wonder it's slow, the site got 300 hits in 6 hours...

Anyonw know if this beta runs under VMware?

It probably does.
I haven't tested it though, but it should work (unless the video driver isn't compatible).
Though VMware itself won't run on Whistler.

I just want to keep Whistler in a sandbox so I can get rid of it cleanly.

Downloaded it off the URL http://at.ebox.ru/~dld.fbi.ru/ and wen i tried 2 install it, it asked for a passy to begin downloading stuff off the web. Any idea's of the passy?

Cheers

i got that too!

We don't want a link to down load IE 6 we want a link to download Whistler 2410!!

That would be illegal according to the agreement you make as a tester idiot! So sign up and try it yourself!

is there a way to uninstall IE6 from Win2k? please e-mail me. Malchir@adelphia.net

add/remove programs - internet explorer 6.0. You can ahev a/rp restore your old version of IE for you. Worked just fine for me.

Sorry here you go ie6 full install only tested on winnt/2k havent tried on 9x/ME gimme feedback hurry link might go down
http://at.ebox.ru/~dld.fbi.ru/

Umm...doesn't work ...you need a username and password to download the correct version for Me

Like i said i have tested it on nt/2000 not me it works for nt because i am using it now. If I find the 9x version I'll be sure to post it

Just want to let everyone know that I have downloaded and am running it. Seems to be stable ( so far !!!! ).

Only prob' I have is accessing Windows Update ( For obvious reasons " wink...nudge " ). Anyway around this?

( I'll answer this myself, thank you! )

BY BECOMING A BETA TESTER!!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!....

Are you running it on Win 9x/ME or Win2K or Whistler?

Running it on Win2k.

The copy that is suplied at this URL will ONLY work on Windows 2000. Due to these lines in the setup config.

Win95=0
Millen=0
NTx86=0
W2K=6.0.2403.0
NTalpha=0

W2k is the only on that SHOULD work.

I downloaded and installed it under win2k pro, and is running LOTS faster than IE5.5 (that one slowed even windows explorer!).
One question though, that may not be related. Upon going online with it, my ZoneAlarmPro registered 8 hits, with 4 alone from 63.210.232.147. Anyone else experience this??

When I used the Tools - Windows Update option, I couldn't get on it either. Just go to windowsupdate.microsoft.com and if it gives an error follow the steps in the support article (link to it is on the WU error page).

The links posted here on jan 12 are all dead. If some knows pls let me know thanx :)

U have to use IE to view My Computer and such anyway. I dont think they could do that with MSN Explorer because of the strange log-on feature. So IE Will definetly come w/ Whistler Personal, and MSN Explorer also probobly. As far as it being intigrated into whistler only, MS almost always has a beta version on windowsupdate for IE. I'll just get that untill i buy whistler (the day it comes out).

All IE and MSN Explorer are, is a shell to the rendering engine, that's it. It uses the rendering engine to do Windows Explorer and whatnot, MSN Explorer uses the same exact rendering engine, and so does IE (both of which are just a UI to that rendering engine).

Where can i find the link,that i can download Whistler2410 and IE6

Thanks !!!

It's not NT 6.0, as its not that big an update. It's not just a minor update either. It could be called 5.1, more probably 5.5. as for know it's version of 5.01, as in sytem properties it says:
Microsoft Windows 2000
5.01.2410

Which in my mind means "Advanced version of NT 5.0, but not a new version yet, as it is still beta"

It says 5.1, not 5.01

Nope, it's not NT 5.x or NT 6. It's just a completely new version of Windows, based on NT. And yes, it's a really big upgrade because it offers the stability of NT to the home user. That's what i wanted to see for so many years...

it says 5.01 anyone with whistler can check. right click on my computer and choose properties (or the newbie way, control panal, system properties) right there on the gereral tab it says:
"5.01.2410" 2410 as we all know is the build number, 5.01 is the NT current number. they may work this up to 5.1, or maby 5.5, or 6.0 (I highly doubt 6.0) but it is "5.whatever they want to call it" end of discussion.

"A completely new version of Windows"? Not in the slightest. It's basically a customer-friendly Windows 2000.

No, it's definatly 5.1

No, that's not all it is.

It is very quite different, adds a lot of nice things to it, the UI change is almost as significant as going from Win for Workgroups to Win95.

I didn't say there's no useful new features, but it's not that significant of an upgrade if you already have Windows 2000. It's not "a completely new version of Windows" -- it's Windows 2000 with a few extras. Sort of like how Windows 98 is Windows 95 with a few extras.

you are a jackass, its 5.01.2410

That's the current build name, but the final build will be NT 5.1.x

The pont is, it's not a "few" extras, it's a lot of extras.

Relatively speaking it's a few, otherwise it would be worthy of more than a .1 increase in the version number.

For everyone talking about whistler like it's NT, it's not. It uses many portions of the NT kernal but the thing that makes whistler such a big update is that it can do DOS by including a portion of the 9x kernal which makes the NT non-DOS compliant registry act like the DOS friendly 9x registry. I'll admit though that large portions of the NT kernal are used but remember it isn't entirely NT and it's not entirely 9x.

Yes, it is NT, no doubt about it. Sure, it may *add* some Win9x compatibility here are there, but that doesn't change the fact that the whole OS is based on NT (Windows 2000, to be precise).

Whistler, like windows 2000, is built on an evolution of the Windows NT kernel. It IS NT, through and through. There is no portion of the win9x kernel in whistler or windows 2000. Both include a windows 98 emulation layer, which really isn't a big deal because win32 code is win32 code. The 16-bit DOS emulation is simply a virtual machine that runs a mini DOS environment in a protected memory space. NT4 did the same, they've simply improved the emulation to make it more compatible with older software and easier to use.

uh... ok....

Whistler is just a stepping stone to go completely subscription based. When Office 10 comes out you will see this along with a lot of intergration with .net technology.

Might I remind all of you that before beta3, Windows 2000 was called... that's right! Windows NT 5.0! To say that NT and 2000 are two different things, is well, just stupid. Real nerds use version numbers, not years. ;-)

And to all of ya'll that say Whistler isn't NT - it is... it's NT 5.1, although that version number has not been placed everywhere yet... remember, whistler is the combination of Oddessy and Neptune, which both had two totally different sub version numbers, and as a result - there are different version numbers all over Whistler, but the build # is always the same in each instance.

If IE6 will be integrated only, its likely it will be integrated into a future Windows 2000 Service Pack :D whistler is NT based so they have to redo it for 9x anyways, and thus will make the 9x version a non integrated version. simple.

Win9x will most likely be dropped within a year.

If you have win2k or something like that here is ie6 full install It might work for 9x/ME but havent tested but works great on win2k. Give me feedback please!
http://members.nbci.com/...Beta%20Build%202403.zip

ok change of url added some whistler icons too
http://at.ebox.ru/~dld.fbi.ru/

Dewd, theres nothing there :(
Wouldnt mind getting my hands on a install, if you can help out, email me @ anarkii@start.com.au thanx

I to would like to get a copy of this please email me @ ncradock@hotmail.com
Thanks
Machello

Just give it some more time. Netscape 6.1 will be a real release...

Mozilla maybe....Netscape... absolutely not. Netscape is slow and bloated compared to the Mozilla builds. Netscape needs to step aside and let the Mozilla team do what they want with Netscape and not put in all that crap they did with Netscape 6.

Netscape6 was made on a branch from bigining of October. Mozilla 0.6 is the same release but with mozilla brand, the only difference was a few bugs fixed + NS has java witch slows down everything (also if java is installed on mozilla it feels much slower).

Next relese of NS (I bet it will be at the end of february) will be based on moz0.8 (I think), so you can imagine (based on moz0.7 experence) what we get.

yeah, I actually somewhat enjoyed using 0.7 (the first build of Mozilla that i didn't trash immediatly, it is very fast, but it's still lacking in a lot of things, and it's ugly (and so are all the skins)

Come on people, your really desperate to call this product anything more than garbage. The UI is so confusing, bookmark management is abismal, and basic features (that Netscape 4.x supported) aren't there anymore.

Also, trying to install Java is painstaking and cumbersome. What are you people thinking??? This browser is pure junk! Mozilla or Netscape, or whatever else you want to call it. It's taken 5 years to release a browser that is WORSE than Netscape 4.x, boy that must have been hard!

I might be wrong and I would like know if I am, but wasn't everyone upset in the first place about the intergration of IE and not that MS may make it a stand alone product everyone is getting upset I mean when windows 98 came out the whole thing about antitrust came out because IE4 was put in but IE6 is being taken out so there is a panic?

NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

Surely to HELL they wont make us use this!!!!!

..anyway...

there is one interesting thing in whistler. as you can see on screenshots there is an msnexplorer, but no ie on the desktop(but its still there).whats the idea behind that ?

You are exactly right! i have Whistler running and IE6 is amazing. the speed is so fast it is like i have OC-255 and not T1 (ok well maybe not but it is still fast!)

MS are really proven themselves over the past couple of weeks with Windows Media Encoder 8 and the new build of Whistler with IE6. I HATE MSN Explorer it is an AOL wannabe which is sad as AOL is designed for people who cant tie there own showlaces!

IE6 must be released as a download for anyone who wants it as it is just so damn good. i will have to go back to NS 4.7 if IE6 is not released as free download!

i think u shouldnt be afraid. if ie6 isnt available for dl and bundled
with whistler, u should get final whistler for free (if u are a betatester)
ps: i like msn explorer :-)

u can't say u don't like msn explorer cuz it's an AOL wannabe. That was the point of MSN explorer.

its for consumers new to the internet as an alternate to AOL, so they had to put simple features on it.

I'm using Whistler 2410 right now and IE6 is great... the people at Microsft did a great job cleaning it up and making the whole thing run better. Web pages load incredibly quick and look great. MSN Explorer strikes me as a knockoff of AOL and that just irritates me...I really don't want all the extra crap that runs along with it. All I want is a powerful, clean, fast browser and IE fits that very well. If MS tries to force MSN Explorer on me I will switch to Mozilla or Opera.

IE6 has lots of the feature that appear in M$N explorer.. and it is in beta stage and im using it to view this site right now...
It comes as part of Windows Whistler beta 2410 and its allright. not as clunky as msn exp ..quite quick.. but the best bit is the fact that Whistler 2410 has this 'clearfont' thingy everything that get viewed in IE6 looks really nice.. (almost mac like clarity - but i didnt say that)

I haven't seen Netdocs, but I don't like MSN Explorer at all... it's not quick, not customizable, and takes too much to view anything...

IE is nice, and if it is ever a separate product, the web itself will stop using IE6 features because nobody will have it if it isn't downloadable!

I wish you all would learn to think, even if it's just for a second. Mary Jo doesn't work for the IE team, she does not even work for MS, all this is, is conjecture, and should be treated as such. NONE of this is a confirmed fact, and probably will never been confirmed as such, because it will most like be that they DO realse it for other versions.

Mary Jo is not the be all to end all news reporter.

Excellent point - and right on the mark, in all liklihood. Mary Jo's story is full of misleading comments that more importantly show her incredible lack of understanding concerning the browser strategy at Microsoft and the technology in general.

First, she treats MSN Explorer and IE6 as completely separate products when MSN Explorer is simply a "shell" that sits on top of IE. In fact, IE is only a shell that sits on top of the actual browsing components (just like NeoPlanet).

So, the browser will continue to be "integrated" into the system as new OS's are released (like Whistler) - the question at hand is 1. what will be the default "shell" it uses (standard IE shell or MSN Explorer) and 2. will IE6 be available as an update to IE 5.5 running on non-Whistler platforms.

From my point of view, it makes no sense not to offer *all* options - the question is what is the default? Releasing Whistler Personal Edition and forcing the user to use the MSN Explorer interface is simply laughable *especially* since even if they did this there are plenty of browser shells out there (K-Meleon, NeoPlanet) that could fill that space. This is obviously a bone-head move and one that is unlikely to take place.

Preventing existing Win 9x users and WinNT/2000 users from updating to IE6 is possible (in an effort to force customers to upgrade to Whistler in any version) but is something I would *expect* to become a rumor and am not surprised some bone-head reporter at ZDNet came up with (or "garnered" from industry talk and quotes taken out of context).

Because of this, it seems unlikely that Microsoft would be able to bear the public heat from preventing this upgrade in addition to taking the risk of losing any tiny little bit of the huge market share they have in the browser arena.

86% (or so) of the people out there are using IE 4 or 5 and are obviously not running Whistler since it hasn't been released. If users can't get updated technology without replacing their operating system, it is likely many will turn to alternatives, whether it be a stable release of Netscape 6 (if that can be done in the near future) or Opera.

If this did happen, sure, some people will update their operating system to get a new browser, but it would be a dumb move on Microsoft's part.

I'm running W98 SE &/or ME (w/DOS Mode patch), 98 Lite (www.98lite.net) and geOShell (news.geoshell.com) on all my systems. This means I've totally disintegrated Internet Explorer from my OS and am using the leaner W95 Explorer. I keep a clean install of IE 5.5 around just in case, but Opera 5.01 and Mozilla M18 meets all my browsing needs. I admit I haven't tried Netdocs yet, but if MS forces me to use MSN Explorer (and I ain't gonna revert back to full IE integration, to hell with that), then guess what MS? I'll just stop using your browser!

This is just another attempt by MS to force people to do things on their terms, and to that I give them a big "F-you."

PS
Don't get me wrong, MS makes the best OS out there IMO (BeOS and MacOS place a close second), but they think that somehow means they're the end all and be all. Pffft!

by forcing "people to do things on their terms," MS has setup a base level for applications to be developed upon. If they had to rely on Netscape and/or the W3C to develop a lightweight application platform using HTML, hell would freeze over.

While a by product, or even an ulterior motive, of developing and integrating IE into the OS was the demise of Netscape, MS has created a way for application development to occur in a very lightweight, easy manner. Numerous programs sprung up overnight utilizing the portability of the IE rendering engine. It took Netscape 2 versions and then some before they realized that's why IE was beating their pants off.

The main reason IE is installed with the OS is simple. Applications use IE, some written by MS, within their interface. By providing the browser as a component of the OS, developers know it's there, they know how it works because it's the same everywhere and they know how to extend its functionality into their own apps. This is a big time saver because the programmers don;t have to write their own browser engine. Even with Gecko, developers will have trouble communicating between their app and the browser because they won't know which browser people have installed on their system. That is unless MS keeps the browser integrated with the OS, no matter which browser people prefer to surf the web with.

I am required to have IE installed for such programs as Adaptec Easy CD Creator 4, and even to update my video drivers (Voodoo3, v1.06). I am still mystified (and enraged) as to why I need this particular internet browser to change video drivers.

Whine to Adaptec and 3dfx about that then.

They chose not to reinvent the wheel; I wouldn't blame them.

Stu, either you are ignorant or you're deliberately lying.

I just said I used 98 Lite to *totally* deintergrate IE from Windows. That means I chose the "Micro" option in 98 Lite, which removes all tarces of IE from your system, including the rendering engine. Then I installed IE 5.5 just in case a web site or any apps needed it. As it happens I run several apps that require the IE rendering engine, and they run perfectly despite IE not being integrated into the OS on my machines in _any_way_.

So your assertion that the reason IE is integrated into the OS is so other apps can access the IE rendering engine is just flat out _wrong_. As to the idea that IE and it's rendering engine are lightweight? Gimme a break man, get real. ,:-)

haha!

Can you please think? When you install IE 5.5, it installed the rendering engine.

Who are *you* telling to think, a** wad? Take your own advice. Let me spell it out for you since you can't seem to comprehend anything with more than 2 or 3 layers of complexity:

1) Stu said the reason IE is *integrated* with the OS is so 3rd party apps can use the IE rendering engine.

2) I said I decoupled IE from W98/ME *completely* with 98 Lite and installed IE 5.5 where I wanted it on my system for the sake of the above apps and just in case a rare web site wouldn't work with Opera or Mozilla.

3) In the above scenario, IE *is*not* integrated into Windows, it's merely installed as another application. In this scenario, applications that *allegedly* require IE to be integrated into the OS (as Stu claimed) are able access the IE rendering engine with no problem, despite it being in no way integrated with Windows.

Is that clear enough for you, dummy? If not, maybe you'd like to explain exactly where your feable brain is getting tripped up, if you can even do that much.

Actually he's right, when you install IE 5.5, it places the rendering components right back in your windows folder where they belong :D
That's why your programs that rely on IE still function, because the components they need are there. The point made above was that developers will use the IE components because they come standard on windows installations... just because you uninstalled them and then reinstalled them slightly differently doesn't and shouldn't affect programs that use those components. If those components weren't part of the standard windows installation (ie. "integrated"), then developers would be far less likely to design programs around them. Do you see his point? Also I'd agree with whomever said it that the IE engine is rather slim and streamlined compared to so many others nutscrap. Then again, when you have a 1.3ghz t-bird and 384 megs of ram, not much seems bloated beyond AOL and Real progs.

Actually the original point that was made (and which I disproved) was this: the _reason_ IE is integrated into Windows is so the IE rendering engine can be made easily available to third party apps. What I've shown is that IE need not be integrated into the OS for 3rd party apps to exploit IE's rendering engine. Go back and read carefully what Stu wrote.

The fact that a new install may place the rendering engine dll back into the windows directory like you say, is an incidental detail. My point that IE needn't integrated into the OS still stands. As does my dispoving of Stu's original point.

It's pretty silly that we can't even agree on who said what here, the words are right there above. The only way this could happen is if someone wasn't taking the time to read what was written properly, or someone is dyslexic. ,:-)

Actually, I have another point to make:

You seem to be asserting that the only reason developers are able to exploit the IE rendering engine is because they know exactly in what folder it's located. This is utter nonsense. Can you say Windows Registry?

The Windows boot drives on my systems look something like this (for example):

C:\ -- Program Files -- System -- Common Files

Why isn't my Common Files folder a sub folder of Program Files? Because, like every other folder on my systems that has a default setting, I've painstakingly edited the Registry to put them exactly where I want them. There are 5 sub folders under Program Files on my systems: Commuincations, Entertainment, Productivity, Reference, and System. All folders like Windows Messaging, Common Files, Windows Media Player, Symantec, etc, etc, are filed within subfolders of these folders. I could only do this if all apps in question knew where to find themselves, other apps, and info about their file assosiations, from the registry. In other words, no app that I know of, is hard-wired to know where a given application file is located in the MS Windows OS: it gets that info from the Windows Registry. So, MS could place the IE rendering engine dll anywhere and other apps would know where to find it by looking for its location in the Registry. In fact, if I wanted to I could probably go into the registry right now, edit all pointers to that dll to point to my IE install folder, boot into DOS, move that file over, and all apps that require it would still work just fine. This also shoots down the idea that apps could somehow not make use of Gecko instead, since all that would be required would be for the Mozilla dev team to encorporate the appropriate Registry entries into Mozilla's developement for 3rd party apps to make enquiries of.

Anyway, a rather long-winded little tirade. ,:-)

The point is, when you installed IE 5.5, it re-integrated, just like IE4 integrated into Win95 when it came out.

The browser itself (ie, the app that you open up) is not needed in the OS, but the rendering engine is, it is a MUST if you are running the Explorer shell, especially in Whistler, because it makes use of a lot of web-stuff.

So, the rendering component is needed, the graphics component is not.

Sorry but you are mistaken. I'm running W98 SE and ME on all my systems, and 98 Lite deintegrated IE from the OS entirely, and swapped the 98/ME explorer.exe with the sleaker W95 explorer. You obviously aren't familiar with 98 Lite and what it can do. Go to www.98lite.net and figure it out.

I may have IE installed on my systems but I can assure you it is in no way integrated with the OS. Sorry, but you just don't know what you're talking about. I think this conversation is over, since you've revealed yourself to be really quite ignorant. Let's not waste any more time.

Yes, I know EXACTLY what 98Lite does, I've used it, you just don't know how IE works.

I'm not the one that's ignorant. When you install IE, you are integrating it into the OS, plain and simple. When you install IE4, you integrate it into Win95, or IE5, same thing, it has never been different since IE4, when you install IE, it is integrated into your system, weather you like it or not.

You said and I quote:

"That means I chose the "Micro" option in 98 Lite, which removes all tarces of IE from your system, including the rendering engine. Then I installed IE 5.5 just in case a web site or any apps needed it."

What do you think IE does when you install it? Besides, you point is moot because you quickly installed IE5.5 so how would you know if you successfully de-integrated when you quickly integrated and UPDATED version of what 98lite removed. BTW, I have used 98lite..I have seen what it can do. So don't play that card here cause I am sure many people here know what it is capable of.

*Sigh*, I knew this would come up if I didn't cover it.

Yeah, I used the Micro option in 98 Lite and swapped the 98/ME explorer shell for the W95 one. Then I installed IE 5.5, which *did*not* re-integrate IE with the OS. It's not the same as taking *W95* and installing IE 4.0. If you don't believe me, try it for yourself:

1) Install Windows 98 or greater.
2) Use 98 Lite w/the Micro option to remove IE (including it's rendering engine) from your system. Swap the Explorer Shell for W95s.
3) Install Internet Explorer (probably any version will do.)
4) You will se that IE *does*not* reintegrate itsself into the OS the way it would if you upgraded a standard W95 install. Period.

Jesus, they even say as much on the 98 Lite web site. I don't think you actually *have* tried it since you obviously don't know what you're talking about. In the above scenario there is 0 trace of IE integration with the OS, it's merely another application like NS Communicator.

Sorry guys, xVariable is right on this. If you remove IE from Windows 98 or better completely (like he says), swap in the W95 Eplorer, and then reinstall it IE, IE DOES NOT reintegrate itself into the OS. It just doesn't. Anyone that is a regular user of 98 Lite (me for instance) could tell you that. Sorry. Perhaps the only provisal is that you also use the "Take Control" option, which makes things like IE, Direct X, etc, optional components under the Windows Setup tab in the Add/Remove Programs applet in the Control Panel.

Read my above statement.

How do I know I successfully deintegrated IE from the OS, either before or after? (eyes rolling) Gee, how do you know it's *is* integrated on *your* system? Take all the ways you know it *is* integrated fo you, reverse them, and you have the ways I know it's *not* integrated on *my* systems. Idiot.

It seems this disagreement is really over what the word "integrate" means in this context. xVariable, you're right. CPUGuy, installing some DLLs into the Windows directory isn't "integration."

Please end the pain.

Actually, 3dfx did that so their drivers could be "MS-certified" (WSQL, or some stupid thing), which requires that in order for the software to be installed, IE must also be installed.
Their older drivers, which were not certified, would easily install.
As for Adaptec, I'm assuming they are MS's b****.

Whoever thought Stu was lying he's not. The program is called Trident its the base program for all the browsing windows in windows 9x to 2k. That is why MS can't be taken down. They are using someone elses software and liscense a copy for each OS copy, hence the price of the OS is high for this reason.

I don't mind MS is doing a good job. I was a big redhat supporter until 7 came out. That was a buggy peice of crap. Just because its open source dont expect unix programmers to fix it. I believe MS took a big step dropping DOS and going back to the Windows 97 construct which we know as win2k today. I'm not saying there is not something better. I'm just saying that Netscape and all Linux production has gone to crap. They expect third parties to fix there problems, while MS has finnaly "gone stable".

Hmm, so anyone who builds their apps around the IE engine is MS's "b****"? IE comes with the OS; what justification is there to remove it and then complain things no longer work? That's like taking a wheel off of a car, and badmouthing the manufacturer because their car doesn't perform well with a missing wheel.

I will take what is said as truth. But not because of anything said. Good2go, you made it short and sweet...point came across in a concise, MATURE manner.

Xvariable,you came off as arrogant, pompous and quite frankly, as an a******. I made one comment. In that comment I never insulted you. I merely questioned your point based on what you said. I admit, "idiot" is not that big of a deal. But the fact remains, you lowered yourself to a level which quite honestly, is not very mature or respectable.

I did NOT remove IE from my machine. I use Win95b. IE 3.x is preinstalled. I'm badmouthing because the drivers will not install without IE 4+.
Hmm, an automobile example.... I'll try one, too.
Okay, say I want to change the oil to boost my cars performance. To my shock and surprise, the mechanics say they cannot change my oil unless I upgrade all four tires.
Now, I realize that installing IE costs nothing, compared to maintainance of an automobile, but the principle of the matter is similar.

Hmm... Honestly, when you're using a 5 year old OS, what do you expect?

When the drivers say "For Win9x", I'm assuming they are exactly that.
Not "For Win98, or Win95 with IE4+".
Although 98 with the 98Lite program is looking better. I never enjoyed the idea of integrated IE.

MS would never leave users of Windows 9x, ME, NT 4, and 2000 with problem plagued IE 5.5. There's also no chance that MS would make the super cheesy MSN Explorer by the browser of choice for every windows user. MS, itself, continues to feature MSN explorer as a beginner's browser. it is clearly catered to the newbie. in essence, Mary Jo is reporting that MS will stop providing an IE version for the advanced power user. the real-world meaning of this is simple: MS is thowing in the towel for this significant segment of the browser-using market. that's right, they would be surrendering this market when they have such a dramatic and substantial lead over opera, netscapte, and mozilla to name a few. in sum, i think that this article by Mary Joe is based on conjecture, and as such, i am reading it with a grain of salt.

that would really suck, since i dont plan on upgrading to whistler the day it comes out or anything, im stuck wiht IE5.5 until i buy a new OS!

well i think this, along with recent improvemennt to mozilla, will help drive many more advanced users to that platform instead of IE.

Before anyone goes off the handle spouting how evil MS is and all that nonsense, keep in mind that Mary Jo's articleis pure speculation based on loose comments made at Microsoft. Everyone in the tech industry makes off the cuff remarks that get taken way out of context by the fourth estate. Wait and see what hapens to IE 6 the closer we get to the launch of Whistler. My hunch is MS will offer IE 6 for present Windows users though it might lack things like skinning (a whistler addition) or a few other small bells and whistles only available for Whistler. (couldn't resist the pun, sorry)

I guess I was too late. Oh, well, can't blame me for trying...

first off, sorry about the double post.
secondly, i understand this is PURELY speculation, and its a long time before anything regarding whistler and IE6 become concrete, but still, i think this would be a bad move by MS if they do decide to not make it available for download. i use windows 2000, and it does everything i need and more. i dont plan on using whistler for a long time, mainly because, like the ZDNET article says, it "dumbs down" everything - like an AOL version of windows or something. in an effort to simplify everyday tasks, they have taken alot away from the power user. but once again, its a long tiem before whistler and IE6 come out, so lets see what happens...

Mary Jo doesn't know jack sqaut. It hasn't been "dumbed down", it may be somewhat easier, but you certainly haven't lost any type of power and functionality, and really, in the simplifications that have been made, you have gained a lot of functionality.

Have you ever seen her get anything right? She always seems to muck up somthing.

/Ryan

Whistler is NOT a dumbed down version of Windows 2000. Profesional might be a mores home user version of the OS, but Whislter, aka Windows NT 5.1, will come in a variety of flavors depending on your needs. I will upgrade to Professional because I run a dual processor setup and some apps I run in Windows 2000 seem to be a little quirky. I'm hoping the 95/NT emulation modes will eleiminate most of these problems. Other versions will include Personal (the home user edition), Server, Advanced Server, and DataCenter. I think there's one more but I forget what it's called. I highly doubt MS will make MSN Explorer the default browser in the Professional version on up.

No one has ever mentioned Whistler as also being called Windows NT 5.1. It hasn't been mentioned in any of the beta newsgroups or Microsoft's internal website where the current build of Whistler is available for download. That's completly ludicrous and shouldn't be believed. And since Microsoft threw out the numbering structure for its NT line, why call it anything else but Whistler? Who cares what version number it is.

Duh as far as i was aware Windows Whistler (V 5.01.2410) was the code name for Window NET v.10

having said that i have heard people call it windows 2001 and window 2000 was NT5 ...facts people
(H9K)

It's NT 5.1

Deep down those that IS the actual OS kernel name and version number. Windows 2000 = NT 5.0, Whistler = NT 5.1.

Windows 2000 is known as NT5.0
to prove this go to http://www.cyberarmy.com and them do a whoami test and it will say OS=NT5.0 so that answer that question

now Whistler isnt NT5.1, as someone else said microsoft want to get away from numbering there OS' and give them titles, Whistler, Neptune, .NET

although Neptune is now Whistler or .NET i cant remember things change so much! Whistler is whistler! it isnt a newer version of Windows 9X/ME or NT it is its own OS and comes in different version such as Professional (home users) Server, Advanced Server and DataCenter Server i dont think there is another version but i could be wrong.

"whistler" is definetly nt 5.1

Who cares? I do. If it's NT 5.1 you're talking about an incremental system update. If it's NT 6.0 then you're talking some serious changes. It makes a huge difference.

It also makes a difference from a pricing structure. If it's a major version number change, it may cost more - if it's a minor version number change, it may be cheaper to upgrade from Win2000.

Either way, whether it's mentioned anywhere "official" or not, Whistler is generally considered to be NT 5.1. If you don't care, that's fine, but others might.

right - it's NT 5.1 - it's the next version of Windows 2000 - it's a Win2K kernel and it's not a major version upgrade.

Windows .NET is the "next" version of Windows although some .NET ideas and components may be part of Whistler.

Whistler is just a code name, which is done for EVERY single software release.

Windows 98 (4.1) - Windows ME (4.9) - \
\
\
\
Windows NT 4 (4.0) - Windows 2000 (5.0) |
| /
Windows Whistler (5.1)-------------------
| |
Windows Blackcomb (6.0)

Hmmmm, that diagram didnt quite work, will try again in a minute :)

Windows 98 (4.1) - Windows ME (4.9) - \
.......................................\
........................................\
.........................................\
Windows NT 4 (4.0) - Windows 2000 (5.0) .|
....| .................................../
Windows Whistler (5.1)-------------------
..| ..........|
Windows Blackcomb (6.0)

The periods are place holders since spaces dont work :)

Last.. attempt.... GRRRRRRRRRRR

Windows 98 (4.1) - Windows ME (4.9) - \
....................................................\
.....................................................\
......................................................\
Windows NT 4 (4.0) - Windows 2000 (5.0) .|
....| .................................../
Windows Whistler (5.1)------------
..| ..........|
Windows Blackcomb (6.0)

The periods are place holders since spaces dont work :)
If it deosnt line up right this time, you get the idea :)

Hmm, I wouldn't agree that the version numbers are significant.

Case in point: Windows 95 was 4.0, 98 was 4.1, and Me is 4.9. Is Me 8 times bigger of an upgrade from Windows 95 to 98, to warrant increasing the version number by .8? No, I'd say the upgrade from Windows 95 to 98 was the bigger upgrade.

I'd say you are completly wrong, if you think that the upgrade from Win95 to 98 is bigger than 98 SE to Me, then you haven't even used it.

I personally don't think that Blackcomb will be 6.0, but you never know, I guess.

OK, tell me, what important new features are there in Windows Me, other than System Restore? (And no, the new color scheme doesn't count as important in my book.)

Windows 98 added very useful features *never available before* in Windows like multiple monitor support, complete USB support, and a My Documents folder, to name a few. Windows Me is essentially Windows 98 packaged with a bunch of accessories (IE 5.5, WMP7) that can be downloaded for free.

Oh... how about System File Protection, a new TCP/IP stack, simplification galore, Windows Movie Maker, just to name a few.

System File Protection -- already available in Windows 2000
a new TCP/IP stack -- the old one worked fine
simplification galore -- not a feature
Windows Movie Maker -- 99% of users won't use it

As far as I know there no longer is a project called Blackcomb. I'm fairly certain both the "neptune" and "blackcomb" teams at MS are now both working on whistler. As for 5.1, you may call it that but you have absolutely no reason to. Windows 2000 identifies itself as Windows NT 5.0. Whistler identifies itself as Windows 5.01 (notice no NT, except in the occasional environment variable). I doubt the final release will contain 5.01 (5.1, 5.5, 6.0 are all more likely). However that is the only version number that can be accurately attributed to whister at this point. Just a clarification, and if anyone knows differently about blackcomb and what not, do share your knowledge with the rest of us :)

Well, yeah SFP is in Windows 2000 but it's new to the 9x kernel. And that's a *huge* feature. So we've got:

System File Protection
Driver Signing (I think...?)
System Restore
New TCP/IP stack
Easier networking, usability, shell updates etc... (whether you want it or not)
Better Internet Connection Sharing

The first few are huge improvements. Now, I'm not arguing the version numbers, really, just the point that there isn't that much new in ME. I wouldn't recommend anyone upgrade to it, per se, but for a new system, sure.

Back to version numbers, you're right that it probably doesn't make THAT much of a difference, but it does mean *something.*

No "NT" other than it's based on the NT kernel... it's not totally about what you see and what features sit on top of the kernel. There are two kernels. The 9x kernel and the NT kernel. Windows 2000 and Whistler and the future OS's are all based on the NT kernel so when we say it's "NT" that's what we mean, regardless of whether the system says the words NT in any viewable place.

Blackcomb is still under the blueprint stage, it is still an active group, it's just that it's the next version of Windows after Whistler, so it still has a way to go yet.

You are thinking of Neptune and Oddessy (darnit, I can never remember how to spell that freaken word!)

Blackcom still exists, Odyssy and Neptune became whistler. Blackcomb build 351 or 327 ( have heard both) was leaked not a montha ago :)

as from what i've heard, blackcomb is not even being developed.
do u think MS was working on win98 when they hadnt even finished 95?

As far as the blueprints go, yes.

Heck, MS was working on Neptune (actually alpha/beta testing it)while WinME was in it's early stages.

Actually yes, if you recall, an alpha version of what everyone thought was Win97 (officially named Win98)was leaked right when Win95 came out. Usually MS doesn't mind when betas get out, but they were ticked about that one because it was so far off.

driver signing was present in NT5/2000.

Who cares, they are totally separate products, it is new to Win9x.

Office2k had file protection before Win2k came out, so, is it not a new feature in Win2k?

Right - as CPUGuy said, the issue is not did the idea or the technology exist before, it's whether or not the 9x kernel had it. And adding it to the 9x OS line is a new feature!

Absolutely - the product development is actually kind of scary. In all liklihood there are groups at MS working on what comes *after* even Blackcomb. Even if not as actual products, as technology "components" or ideas that will later be incorporated. In fact, one of the reasons why the improvements/advancements often seem slow (like, why is there even a Windows '98 2nd and 3rd edition - why didn't we move faster to the NT kernel base, etc...) is to maintain backwards compatibility which is a decision that has to be weighed. There's a lot of legacy software out there and MS often chooses to support that, rather than move ahead slightly faster. That's their choice and one that takes into account customer demand and feedback.

that would really suck, since i dont plan on upgrading to whistler the day it comes out or anything, im stuck wiht IE5.5 until i buy a new OS!

well i think this, along with recent improvemennt to mozilla, will help drive many more advanced users to that platform instead of IE.

Hey running up the next build
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2418.0000
runing save and well under win2k
the story sucks no explorer6 beta there is!!!

Hi,

I am looking for a UK Based site to download Whistler from - anyone please post a ftp site or email me directly (brett@kieser.net)...

Thanks...

Brett