Whats the difference between a white Nike tshirt and a white Noname T-s***...nothing except for the cost and the check mark. I guess Intel has to include the cost of making advertising in their chips...

P3s arent that great, but Intel isnt bad either
My Celeron 533 w/64mb ram goes faster then my Uncles Pentium III 500 with 128mb ram

Yes, but what do you run when you're comparing it? PIII architechure is made for multi-tasking. The celeron left behind by PIII's level 2 cache and front end bus speed.

(reposted since this was buried before...)

...is that there is a CONFIRMED BUG in the P4 chip that has yet to be resolved! You cannot run multi-monitor systems in some configurations without the risk of data corruption. Having worked for Intel in the past, it is obvious that the company is still acting under the old "business as usual" terms -- they are pushing products out the door ahead of testing schedules to fulfill their marketing needs. Intel may have once stood for quality, but in my mind, that quality was lost some time ago when this started being the operating mentality of the corporation.

Has everyone also forgotten that that Intel is the company that said RAMBUS was the Next Big Thing™ ???

On a final note, faster-schmaster. If I have to pay upwards of $150 more for a hyped-and-touted Intel chip becuase it is a mere 1.5% faster than its Athlon counterpart, what am I really gaining? In terms of stability, I have seen next to no difference in AMD chips vs Intel chips running side-by-side... and when I have, it has usual been poorly written software that is really to blame!

LOL all you brainwashed fools... AMD is the true leader in my mind...

Hey does everyone remember the those PIII 1.2 GHZ chips? Oh you don't, that is because they got recalled. Those chips implemented a new design to the chip the same design that is in the p4. Are you all worried yet.

For those who think a celeron or a lower grade AMD proccessor is the answer to your prayers, it probably is because all your doing is typing, browsing the net, and playing games. Developers need PIII, P4, and Athalon processors. Yes, I added p4 why? because I expect those bugs to be fixed. Intel is losing market to AMD, which seems to have no problems (i'm hoping not to good to be true since one of my machines is an athalon) is on the virge of taking the market. Yes it's a small percentage compared to what intel has now, but five years ago Intel was it. I can only expect Intel has something on the backburner they are sheltering before releasing.

understand why people buy Intel when AMD's can be over $100 cheaper. It just doesn't make sense.

Why do people buy $30k for a vehicle when you can get a nice new neon for $10k?

Intel still stands for quality, stability, reliability, compatibility, and performance...traits, which AMD have yet to offer...

and, yes.. the P4 is a great work of engineering which stands above the competition; you can however compare the P3 to Athlon which and you know the P3 out performs it at the same and even higher freq...

So if you want to buy cheap hardware, go ahead... if you want the best, buy Intel. Sure, your Neon will be great, but i'll take a Lamborghini any day... You get what you pay for!

going back to car analogy ... would you rather buy a korean, or any other make. While a Hyundai Tiburon looks good on the outside, runs good on the outside... you can't really tell how long it's going to last. That's why you get a nice looking sports car but w/crappy performance.

Intel is the leader in microprocessor technology, always have been and always will be the leader for many generations and beyond.

so it makes sense for millions of people worldwide.... the cost of the Intel processor will pay for itself in reliable, quality performance for everyones pc.

you really are a fool, you know?

Looks like Intel has done a great job brainwashing you into believing that they will always be the ones with the fastest processors and that they can charge you anything they want for it. The P3's are great, but I'm sorry, the Athlon's beat it in every category you mentioned, and cost half the price. So as great as the P3's are, the Athlons are just that much better... it's too bad you're too pigheaded to even want to do any research before you talk.

As far as the P4 goes, it definitely is a great architecture, after reading many articles, but I think they cut out way too much stuff which they originally planned to keep in there. And right now, they are not worth the buy.

Sorry to report this.. A while ago I've read an article about AMD and Intel. The Intel P4 1Ghz runs slightly faster than the current K7TB-1Ghz. It runs as far as I understand the benchmark-graphs, the P4 is about 1.5% faster. And on most aspects, the P4 isn't even that much faster than the P3. The current P4 more a marketing technique to keep up with AMD.. Just wait until AMD releases their next generation cpus. It will be 2 years ahead of Intel again. Also according to this article, the P4 made Intel 3 years back in development time. They blew the chip to coop with AMD, they have to go back to the drawing board the next 3 years..

I would agree that the Athlon is fast and cheap, but that's all. If you believe the current Athlon platform offers the same level of "stability, reliability, compatibility" that Intel does, you are sadly mistaken I'm afraid. Do a little more research next time.

There is no such thing as a P4 1GHz! The lowest speed it's currently available in is 1.3GHz.

Those who speak of a 1GHz P4 are *underclocking* the chip. And obviously, benchmarks on an underclocked chip don't show the true performance.

...is that there is a CONFIRMED BUG in the P4 chip that has yet to be resolved! You cannot run multi-monitor systems in some configurations without the risk of data corruption. Having worked for Intel in the past, it is obvious that the company is still acting under the old "business as usual" terms -- they are pushing products out the door ahead of testing schedules to fulfill their marketing needs. Intel may have once stood for quality, but in my mind, that quality was lost some time ago when this started being the operating mentality of the corporation.

Has everyone also forgotten that that Intel is the company that said RAMBUS was the Next Big Thing™ ???

On a final note, faster-schmaster. If I have to pay upwards of $150 more for a hyped-and-touted Intel chip becuase it is a mere 1.5% faster than its Athlon counterpart, what am I really gaining? In terms of stability, I have seen next to no difference in AMD chips vs Intel chips running side-by-side... and when I have, it has usual been poorly written software that is really to blame!

LOL all you brainwashed fools... AMD is the true leader in my mind...

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, can you show me a resource which states that the Athlon/Duron platform is less reliable, stable (which are the same thing really) or less compatible than Intel chips? Perhaps show me some instance where the AMD doesn't run a piece of code properly whereas Intel chips do? As far as platforms go, the VIA KT133/KT133A are extremely stable platforms, I've had absolutely no problems with them.

The only thing I can think of which Intel chips have and AMD's don't is a built in temperature sensor and the ability to shutdown when it gets too hot. AMD should really add this, but other than that, there really isn't anything else.

There is no doubt Intel are quality merchandisers WHEN THEY get it RIGHT!!! They've had their share of stuff ups (pentium bug hahaha)

But basically at its current incarnation the P4 (requiring RAMBUS) has shelf life of one year yeah thats right just 2001 with a new bios chip due out and not requiring RAMBUS only a damn fool is buying the P4 right now. Well a fool with too much money to spend.

To use the car analogy right back at you.
Just because you own a porsche,ferrari or whatever doesnt mean you arent doing any better than the guy who drives down the city block in his beat up old vw, or korean import why? because you are both adhering to the speed limit dumba** ..thats right they are both x86 architecture its not like one or the other is implementing something special.

Why not try to support AMD? Do you like Intel stiffing you? for years the Celeron has been stuck on a 66mhz bus speed until they arrived and oo now theres 100 mhz version ..lucky us. Or lets multiplier lock our cpus because we are scum arses whereas AMD dont even care ..lets face it a few laser cut holes isn't really a deterrent.
Competition is good ..just like nvidia did to voodoo ..i smeel the same thing happening to intel. Lets hope so.

Read the newsgroups. People have all sorts of problems with the VIA chipsets. AGP is unstable, it's finicky about memory and PCI cards, etc. Many of these problems are not fixable by changing BIOS settings, updating drivers, etc. I've lost count of the number times I've seen people say, "I've gone back to Intel and now everything workrs perfectly."

It's little wonder why you see Athlon in home PCs, but not mission-critical servers. Don't get me wrong, Athlon is a promising platform, but it's not there just yet.

Just face it, the P4 is a big mistake.. At least, the early release of the P4 is!

Also I've read that article that Intel still has a bug in it which causes double clock-cycles when doing heavy calculations, such as in games. AMD has fixed this problem since the K6-2. Intel refuses to improve the CPU's performance by fixing this problem.

Excuse me for waking you up.. Athlon is an extremely stable cpu. It's stable enough that hardware manufacturers (like Compaq, HP, etc) already annouced that they are going to implement the Athlon in their newer design servers.

Oh.. Another thing, my system :
AMD K7-thunderbird 800@1Ghz, 192MB PC-133, 20Gig UDMA/100, Matrox G400-32-DH, SB-Live, brandless TV-card. All on a Asus A7V mainboard (with integrated Promise UDMA100 controller).

And I'm sorry to say, but this system is stable as He||. Totally no compatibility issues. Had no problems installing Linux, Win2K, WinME, Win98SE and even QNX.
So go somewhere else complaining about an AMD. You probably had no chance to really work with this sweet cpu.

And about the temp-monitor.. Ok, it's not an 'in cpu' sensor, but it does the job and protects my system from a China Syndrom.

What are you talking about JR? I have a AMD Duron using the VIA chipset and I have no AGP, memory, or PCI issues. I have never used Intel (except for at work). My AMD based machine (both my K6-2 and Duron) are 10 times more stable than my Intel based Compaq. My Duron in a dual boot (ME and 2000) and I have no issues with either OS. My Geforce MX card (AGP), Creative Labs Live 5.1 (PCI), 3Com NIC (PCI), and my 128 MB PC133 RAM have no problems all are stable. No AGP, PCI, or Memory problems here.

I use AMD at home and all is well. I use Intel at work and crashes like hell. Intel is falling behind and quickly losing market share. They are getting like 3dfx they keep reusing the same technology or rushing to the market before it is ready. We all see what happened to 3dfx. AMD has taken the lead in perfomance and they continue to improve there CPUs, while Intel just keeps trying to pump out MHZ just to keep up. I am really going to waste extra money on a P4 1.5 when I can get an Athon for much less (and lower speed)that will keep up with the P4. If AMD were to release an Athlon 1.5 it would blow the P4 1.5 away, because their current CPU is just barely being beat right now (a little over 1%).

I just enjoy watching Intel fall on their face time after time.

This response is to both of you:

I didn't say *everyone* had problems. I'm simply saying there are *more* problems with AMD/VIA than Intel. Like I said, read the newsgroups. The number of people with instabilities and hardware incompatibilities with AMD/VIA far outnumber those with Intel. It is no mere coincidence. AMD/VIA has its problems. (The AMD 760 chipset sounds promising, though.)

And BTW, I am running an Athlon myself right now. So don't say I don't have experience with it.

But, you have things like AGP4x turned off, don't you? VIA chipsets really do have a lot of problems, the 760 from AMD will definatly be a NICE improvment.