Microsoft exploring the cash register but implementing online services via Live. Used Vista and found XP worked better for my enterprise applications.

Notice how Intel Information Technology has stood fast with XP too. The idea of domain controllers was good but that time has come and gone. Or has it (chuckle)? With Live services you might get a Netware directory service.

XP for another four years!

How not on track could it be since they're basically finishing all the things that were cut from Vista? It's not as though they're starting fresh or that the operating system will be new and lightweight.

it will be lightweight... google minwin kernal.

I read quite a bit about that when the news first arrived. You still can't make something as heavy as Windows, which still carries code from the mid-1990s into something lightweight, no matter what kernel (it's not a kernal) you put into it.

Unfortunately no, Windows 7 is not based on MinWin, it's built right on top of Vista SP1.

Technically you can.. They spent alot of time during the development of Vista reengineering the components that make up the OS to be modular but didn't really finish it up. Modular meaning you can pick and choose safely(something vlite and nlite do at a risk)what to leave out when you install Windows.

So it can be done.

All agreed then, we all start using the beta 2 when it becomes available in August, and as soon as the finished version is released we dump Firefox and Opera.

Here here.. The reasons to go to Firefox are no longer true with IE8. So down with Firefox!!

If you look at nearly all console games are designed for kids and or arcade type experiances, 90% of PC gamers i would say have moved from Commodore computers etc and as such have matured with the gaming experiance a pc offers.

I have never tried wine, but you would have to take a hit on perforance when running a windows converter inside linux?

In the end, the debate will always rage regardless, enjoy your perferance!

Wine is simply an implementation of the Windows API. It doesn't emulate anything other than loading PE-COFF files. The best way to think of it is wrapping each .dll file inside a linux .so library then linking these libraries to the application are runtime, like you would gtk or any other library. Degradation in performance comes from converting DX calls into OpenGL calls, which isn't too bad.

"90% of PC gamers i would say have moved from Commodore computers etc"

LOL. Well, I guess 74 is your year of birth but my guess is 'most' PC gamers today have not been born or were still learning hand-eye correlation at the time Commodore was fading out.

Hmmm.. If they wrap each Win dll file I would expect MSFT to tackle them for copyright infringement. If they on the other hand re-implement the API interface I doubt they have the resources to optimize it to a level as Windows native has. Just a thought since I haven't used Wine either...

anyone who hates vista knows jack about computers or tries running it on there crappy Celeron or Pentium 3 machine. i am using vista for over a year now and have no stability problem especially before they came out with SP1. all you losers trying to switch to linux good luck with trying to get all your hardware and programs working with it. and your so called WINE only works with a limited number of windows games in the first place so be prepared to give up alot

I'm not a gamer either (bought a console for that time sink), but I did make the switch to Linux and haven't looked back. In case you haven't noticed many of the better utilities and apps are cross-platform or have webware versions. Heck, even NewsLeecher works on Linux now. As for hardware, haven't had a problem with a single printer or camera for two years now. Can't say the same for Vista.

In fact, I've never been more productive on a computer, and not having to pay the "Microsoft tax" allows me to put more money back into updating hardware more often.

Use what you want, but you're the one losing money to Redmond, and with Win7, they're about ready for another pound of flesh, chumpzilla.

Yea, lets start up this stupid argument once again.

It's like saying "Those who don't have a garage door opener are too cheap to buy one, b/c everybody have one". May be, it's simply b/c they know how to use their hands?

I feel like I am one of those directed my your comment b/c I am trying to switch to Linux. Don't be mistaken, I know well Windows & hardware. I currently have Vista Ultimate x64 Raid0 working at home on the latest hardware. Besides the bell & whistle effects, Vista doesn't really increase my productivity. By curiosity, I would like to see the other side of the fence. Because my Vista machine is powerful enough to run smoothly virtual machines. So I tried several Linux distros. And I start to discover a new excitement unknown under Windows: choice & freedom. Not to say that I am less worried about security issues. But enough said, I know this controversial debate will never end.

According to Forrester Research Vista's penetration into the enterprise is at 13%. Most enterprise customers indicate they have no plans to move to Vista. Several customers are actually moving back to XP from Vista.

I may not know jack, but you obviously don't know diddly.

May be a little bit too late? At least for me. I got tired with the Vista episode and I am now learning Linux with Ubuntu. I plan to switch our home computers to Linux in a short future. Soon, we will be less affected by these Windows news.

I guess you're not a gamer? Thats fine and Linux is good if your just using it to check mail and do certain work. For millions of people out there we use Windows because it works best for us in some way that Linux or Mac can't offer.

More companies are porting their games over to Linux and you can play many Windows games using WINE under Linux as well. If you use your computer mainly for games than you should get a console instead.

I prefer actual 1080p games with my PC versus 720p and 1080i games i have seen on ps3 and xbox. I use my PC for gaming, my 47 plasma is about 5 feet away from my desk. As for Linux yes more are porting over, just as many are porting to OS X. Windows still has your largest amount of games excluding consoles (i dont have stats for that). Linux is good for plenty of things and so is OS X. I have all three systems and use them for what I need um for. Also many online games if you play using WINE you can get banned due to the their programs not being able to track if your hacking.

Yeah except consoles suck with the mouse and keyboard (what little support they offer)so you know its not the same.

Wine while it works is more hassle then the benefit.

But if you are trying to get rid of Windows then by all means it will work just not as well.

I couldn't have said it better. Plus with a console you can't play FPS' with mouse and keyboard. I can never get use to the controller playing multiplayer FPS', I can do the single player but still it takes me longer to get through an FPS on a console than it does on the computer.

I don't just play games on the computer, I do work as well, also you said it right you may get banned if you use WINE plus you have to have a better computer to play a Windows based game using WINE than you do just playing on Windows. Emulation takes more processing power especially because WINE has to emulate directX.

"If you use your computer mainly for games than you should get a console instead."

Are you kidding? I use my PC for gaming because no console can match the performance, flexibility, and audio/video quality of my PC... and most of the games I play on the PC are not available on consoles anyway. If I want to play console games, that's what emulators are for.

"Emulation takes more processing power especially because WINE has to emulate directX."

True, emulation does require more processing power... but Wine is not an emulator (hence its name). It can use most native Win32 DLLs directly.

news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-9998336-56.html

id say this holds true for the majority of people who hate vista.

Time to grow up.

WINE: Wine Is Not an Emulator......

Yah they are ganna port games to linux because it earns them so much more revenue....right...

You are right, I am not a gamer. Well I play small games like Tetris and some board / card games from time to time. Fortunately they also exist in Linux. But I got your point. At home we use the computer for casual tasks: Internet, Office, reading PDF, play multimedia files. So there is really no show stopper for the transition to Linux other than the learning curve.

What a pointless comment, so you got nothing then, huh?

Time to grow up and be a boring, spiteful person for the type of OS they use? I'll pass, k? thanks

Once we got to know "Mojave" better we'd hate it too. You just can't put enough perfume on that OS to make it good.

"More companies are porting their games over to Linux "

What alternate universe is this occurring in?

"If you use your computer mainly for games than you should get a console instead. "

Yes I should play a keyboard and mouse oriented strategy game with a pad. No really the damage to my wrists and hands would be good for me.

Is there anything in your head that touches reality? That post sure didn't.

Why?

Growing up is the death of learning. Is that what happened to you. Did you stop learning?

Linux is not at present a viable alternative to PC gaming. Neither is a Mac nor a console. The Mac has the potential but not the actuallity. You know the Mac has good games because you played them a year before the Mac got them on a PC.

No one rational (that leaves you out) is under the delusion that a console is better for first person shooters, strategy, whether real time or turn based, or for that matter even a game of solitaire. Until consoles have a replacement for the mouse they will remain deficient in many forms of gaming.

I like when MS keeps tight lipped about stuff, I hate when they start blabbing about features and then if they're not put in we're disappointed. They should keep their mouth shut until beta 3 or so. This goes for all companies (especially game devs). Maybe MS should try and just say "we don't know anything about a new Windows", and then one day just let out the beta and surprise us all. Maybe they should have done that with Vista, one day "No comment" next day its out, then they can take as long as they want and we'd just think they're not making a next version of windows.

Cool, thats what I like to hear.

As always, its understandable if they delay it to fix issues instead of releasing an extremely buggy OS.

Like Vista? They delayed it and it was still a POS when released.

You do know the Vista we received is completely different then the one released right? back when it was just longhorn it was a completely different animal, then they couldn't get things to work so started over with 2003 code. (from my understanding, correct me if I am wrong though)

Yes they botched up a lot of things with it from the start but it has gotten much better and using vlite really makes it shine as the common user does not need a lot of the services included.

Of course. They cut all that was promised and gave us a POS instead. Appearance was more important than substance. They should have just put out XP SE with a new GUI and kept the stability and reliability gained.

Many of the features in Vista can easily be added to XP. Vista was not nearly the upgrade that XP was from 9.x and XP may have had its problems but nothing even close to Vista's, especially considering that it was a major move from 9.x to XP and a very minor one from XP to Vista. I wasn't afraid to use XP after using it as I am with Vista which I had used for 6 months before dumping it. Vista drove me to a different OS entirely. And I'm a person with around 25 years experience with computers.

You poor thing.

No, Vista is a poor excuse for an OS.

Amen

No, that's a poor excuse for a comment.

"And I'm a person with around 25 years experience with computers"

That doesn't mean crap and your post proves it.

Yep it was MS's fault that every driver and 3rd Party app developer dragged their feet for a year after Vista was released causing everyone to think it was MS's fault that Vista was crap. Yep.

It may be good news... Not because IE8 (nobody cares about it) but because usually MS release a new browser some time earlier (1y) that its next OS...

So, windows 7 could be released next year, finally!
After windows ME 2.0, we would finally see a good one... I still hope so.
The best thing MS can do is to keep current drivers structure, so we do not have to face another driver mayhem next year...

"Not because IE8 (nobody cares about it)"

Of course not. For the sake of accuracy let's just ignore the majority of internet users who are using one or another version of IE according to web stats.

But good that you clarified the schedule for those MSFT project managers. Otherwise they would be completely at a loss when to release W7.

And let's not just keep the 'drivers structure', which is the one thing still blue screening Vista. Let's make it run QuickBooks 0.7 alpha 3 again and merge that kernel with Solitaire!

"Not because IE8 (nobody cares about it) "

There's a whole shedload of web developers who care rather a lot about it.

I have Vista on two computers, I have yet to see a blue screen. Just my experience, not to say it has not happened. The biggest flaw I have experienced is the issues with IPv6 which is also plaguing XP and other Windows Platforms that support it.

I seem to recall MSFT publishing stats around SP1 that nVidia drivers are causing 50% of the blue screens.

I just reinstalled Vista today with a new image courtesy of Vlite and it went nice and smooth and had no issues whatsoever, I use a Nvidia card and no blue screens either.

I am glad that IE is losing market share day by day. It was/is/will be a rock in the road for web developers. Another version, more incompatibilities to fight with.
For the record, I was just being sarcastic and expressing my wishes about it.

And the drivers structure and the Vista BSOD nightmare came because of the changes in the driver model. You cannot avoid a buggy driver to hang the OS. The more you change the model, more problems you will have with them. Vista drivers are just stabilizing now, more changes will represent more problems.

Finally, if I want to clarify something to MSFT managers, I will not do it here. I just clarify things for people like you.

I have a beefed up professional Lenovo laptop and did the occasional (1/m) bluescreen due to the nVidia card. Not since SP1 though.

MSFT brought computing (and the internet) to the people. Since they were 1st to do this large scale you cannot measure them up against upstarts of the last few years. They are also committed to a reasonable level of backwards compatibility, which I am sure is causing them more pain than anyone else. MSFT are not out to get you or make people's lives miserable - they are in it for business, that's all.

Re: your (mis-)clarification (thanks, I am sure it will sustain unwavering success for me). MSFT clarified their release schedule without your help: http://www.informationwe...tml?articleID=183701121

RLOL, so MSFT brought internet and computing to the people?! You made my morning... No comments

About my help, I will not help MS as long as I can.

Now, talking about misclarifications, thank you for bringing two years old (!) news, which are, at least inexact. IE7 was released on October 2006 and Gates said in the article you posted:
"Microsoft plans to release updates to IE more frequently, perhaps as often as every 9 months to a year"
We are almost 2 years from IE7 and IE8 is to be released before end of the year... In the best case, more than 100% delay for the article you cited... But do not worry, we are accustomed to Microsoft release dates!
You cite (not) accurate info, right? Good
I am done, I will not respond on this topic to you again...
Thank you

Funny how Nvidia is losing their a** on the laptop video cards. Guess they f'd on that one. Maybe you should look at nvidia as the cause of your problem since the problems with laptop cards has been a hot topic. Their stock has been tanking since they are getting their asss kicked on desktop cards and the problems they are having with their laptop cards.

MSFT certainly didn't bring the Internet (and certainly not the internet, learn about proper nouns) to the people. Bill Gates dropped the ball and thought the Internet wouldn't come to much and Microsoft's first attempt (to provide services through the Internet) was such a disaster that they pulled the plug and tried to brush it under the rug.

Heck yea there are..

Ooooohhhm such a shame... I'd *really* like to hear your take on who exactly made PCs & the Internet accessible to the masses.

And I am not talking about to kids like you but grown-ups who've been using computers before the web was around...

I think we are losing the context of the original response. I don't really have a problem... If a computer bluescreens once a month (and not any more since SP1) I can live with it...

"... I'd *really* like to hear your take on who exactly made PCs & the Internet accessible to the masses."

The PC was brought to the masses by Apple. Steven Wosniak, Steve Jobs and Mike Markula.

The internet was brought to you by Mosaic.

S100 bus systems like the first PC, Altair, did not bring PCs to the public but the Apple did.