LOL !!!! =)

all of them :P

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Go download Windows ME RTM build 3000.2 like im using :)
other then that, we need to wait for them to port it over to win2k and previous 9x after some last minute bug checks

IE is, without a doubt, a better choice than Netscape though I continue to wonder about why IE downloads the way it does. Does no one else find it frustrating when they have to wait for 10 seconds when a download completes for IE to copy it from the cached folder into where you tell it to save the download? I can't figure out why MS chose this method for downloading. The best way around this problem I've found is to use a download manager like Go!zilla or GetRight, but it still doesn't change the fact that for all the areas Netscape loses, it still downloads better--thankfully this isn't major enough to force anyone to have to use it!

I agree with you, and for others who wonder why Netscape is loosing, just look at the facts. IE has utterly thousands of employees working on it, with timed and focused goals with project leaders overseeing coding in a timely manner with set deadlines for alot of things. Netscape bought by AOL probably has a hundred internal guys work on it with the open source who are taking in every idea, thought and trying to integrate it to make it a perfect "uphoria" of a product. I'm sorry netscape is really great, it really is, but without organization especially timed and deadlined organization in the business world, no wonder Microsoft is winning the browser war. They got the people and the stuff to back their products.

Basically, it's because IE5 has resuming features, and it likes to save everything in the temp inet files (in case you lose the file, or for parents to view at what their kids are looking at, etc...)

Actually, it's fairly easy to find out the schedules of the Netscape engineers.... They post a status update to www.mozilla.org about once every two weeks or so, with their developing priorities and such. Netscape has very deliberate plans for their developers. Most of the open-source type additions are either in Netscape's schedule already or are handled by outside developers (like, say, XSLT, MathML, SVG, MNG, and a host of other cool standards that independent developers have been working on).

Well, it sounds like a lame excuse to me 'cause for anyone who knows a little bit about Internet stuff can figure out tempfiles and where downloads go. It seems like they could implement it better. Ahh well... we can't have a perfect browser or software otherwise we'd have nothing to complain about! :)

lol, I thought you were talking about the Active Setup downloader.
In any case, they are both as bad as each other.

Why fuss and argue "netscape rules" "IE will eat you up"?? I've never seen such babified arguments since Windows vs Linux which is like comparing apples to oranges there. At the moment it's factual that IE is better....why? Because not only do you have gui/engines and all everyone is leaving out the entire purpose of a webbrowser...to view webpages! and what does it take to view webpages...code that understands the HTML standard code. Right now with the HTML standards that are out, IE does the best job in supporting them. Don't believe me take Netscape 4.x and run it against IE 5.x with things such as style sheets, dhtml and so forth. IE has almost full compliency with those while netscape is hanging in about half or a little more. I think the war is far from over, but the heat of the battle is gone though. If AOL would put as much time into developing netscape as they do AIM I would estimate the userbase for both would be about 50% each. ah well, what do I know, I'm not arguing over each because of personal preference, i'm just pointing out factual stats.

IE5 does _not_ have 'nearly full compliancy' with the HTML Specs. Compared to the Spec BOTH NS and IE suck. It is true that IE supports better than NS4x. Try running IE against a standards oriented browser, such as Amaya (put out by the guys who _maintain_ the standards).

IMO, they both suck.

Hmm. 86%. Well, I think all this really tells us is that most users on the Internet are dumb. Why? Becuase probably 75% of those 86% of users using IE, are the avrage joe-idiot computer user that opens up ILUVYOU viri, and let Microsoft think for them.

Yes, i know there are quite a few knowledgable computer users who use IE, but that is a split of about 50/50.

Of course, even complete idiot Mac Users should know better than to use IE4.5 ...

75% of IE users are dumb? where the hell is the logic behind that? so how much smarter will i be if i go download 15+ mb for Netscape jackass?

Lets see. Most likely, if you are using IE normally, your probably using Outlook.

1) Outlook is just a breading ground for annoying viri (ala ILUVYOU).
2) IE/Outlook come with any PC you buy now, most people by Windoze machines.
3) Most people who use computers seem to be stupid enough to open ANY attachement they get.

Based on the previous points, obviously there must be a good number of stupid people out there, or would we even know about the ILUVYOU virius?

If they're not stupid, then whos to blame, MS? (Yes they are, but in a previous disscusission most of you MS loving people decided that MS was not to blame at all...)

Stupidy check: noone is forced to run a exe file, clicking them in outlook is the same as saving them to disk and running them like any other program. also for all these appz that send themselfs out to the people on you list, thats not Outlook's fault, it could be disgned to do that to any email program, but they did it for Outlook, because it is the most popular.

Have you ever thought about if IE wasn't "integrated" with Window$???

The download of IE would be enormous. Right now if I flesh out IE the way I want it when I download it I end up with a 20 MEG download which is comparable to Nutscrape

Personally I hate them both. Yes IE is better in a lot of things, but WHY can't they just make them both perform the same... MAKE TABLES APPEAR THE SAME IN BOTH BROWSERS!!!! MAKE JAVASCRIPT BEHAVE THE SAME!!! As a part time web developer I find I end up spending 50% of my time on a project making sure that the webpage is cross-browser compatible.

Screw both of them and make them work the same. Jeez

Yhcrana

Got to agree here. Microsoft's 86% market share is hardly a resounding
endorsement of the mentality of the average net user.

The reality is that IE is crap. It's just that Netscapes's shameful inability to keep their product up to date has made IE look better than it is.

So wonderful to hear the Truth from such a Wonderful, Perfect "Computer Expert."
I would love to have your sources for your words of Truth and Logic, so they can be posted everywhere so everyone can see how you came to such a non-biased, Logical conclusion.

I agree. Its like a labyrinth going through all those warning windows Outlook Express and IE display before opening an executable.

You would have to be completely stupid to ignore all those warnings. DONT BLAME OE AND IE!

hmm if that's the case, then i think 100% of the users on betanews' message board with the nick is boblenon are complete idiots who have absolutly no proof to support their arguments.

It's totaly no doubt that IE kills netscape in the windows environment, that's because it's CLOSED source (well it was... the Windows OS) so microsoft probably had those anti-netscape routines
function netscape(progID)
{ if run == "netscape.exe"
then if NetscapeVer 1 3 5 then program = "not exist" alert.window ("This program does not exist, please use Internet Explorer 7.0 or higher to browse the internet")
end if

hehe sorry about that lol =P i'm not a C progrmamer but you get the point.
Netscape takes SOO long to load pages AND it refreshes the screen wheenver you resize the window. NOT ONLY THAT, but it CAN'T even fill out tables.... so tell me what is SOO good about netscape..
and why the hell are they releasing netscape 4.74 ? what about 5.0 ???
or 6.0 cuz thye know they have to compete with M$ with the ver nums.
maybe netscape will end up with leasure suit larry, with the 'missing sequal'.

But all in all, i want to see the new version of netscape, see how it runs, and if it's better than IE, and as integrated with the OS, THEN i'll use it
*out*
DaNi SarFatI

Why doesn't Netscrape just jack their version right up to 6.0 without any development. That's what other software companies seem to be doing these days.

Then would Netscrape be better? Even if you bothered downloading the 20meg file -- I doubt it.

When I first started using the internet, I was using Netcom, with there NetCruiser browser. The amount of people that used Netcom was about 2%, about 10% used Mosaic, and the rest had switched over to the incredible Netscape 2.02, and AOL was the size of an ant. We started using Netscape at ver. 2.02, and thought it was awesome (compared to Netcruiser), which it was. Then IE 2 came out, and man, it was FAST. Started using that a little bit, and noticed some of it's limitations (it was basically, Mosaic with a shell on top). and then switched to Netscape Communicator Gold (Netscape 3), which nice, bloated a little, but nice. And then, Microsoft put out IE3, and blew everyone away at the jump it had went from IE2 to IE3, we actually started using both. And then IE4 came out (Netscape still had 75% of the market), after IE4 was out for about a month, they were pretty much tied. IE kept gaining more and more ground, until today, when IE rulesd all.

Now Netscape has the crappy browser, heck, they have to REBUILD the Mozilla code to the level that Netscape was at before (for the most part) and then come out with an even better product than IE 5.5. If IE can come from crappy old IE2, to where it is today, then Netscape can easily make a comeback (especially when AOL starts using Netscape instead of IE).

I'm waiting for some one to skin IE to look
just like Netscape and then brag about
how good the new Netscape runs now.

Especially how fast it loads ...he..he..

Looks like Netscrape is truly scraping the bottom of the barrel. LOL. They will NEVER recover now : )

I like it and am still using it.

I prefer Internet Explorer, and wont change either.
Its very strange how people pick one out and then stay with it. You love one and hate the others.

Must have something to do with the one you start off with first.

When Netscape starts making GOOD, comfortable, fast, developer-friendly browsers, maybe then they might recover. No chance till then, and Gecko is NOT a step in the right direction...

not necessarily! I used Netscape forever - and ended up converting to IE after plenty o' kicking and screaming. I didn't want to switch, but in the real world, the benefits of not using such a crash-happy piece of s***e (Netscape) are obvious, and in the end, the best software won. It's kinda like OS's. People will hang onto some because it's like a cultish religion, but at the end of the day, it's the one with the broadest appeal that will win.

My observations on Mozilla are this the browser displays things more standards compliant than anything else out there. It is getting much better with speed, interface, and stability. Speed and stability are the two major focuses of Mozilla at the moment. The interface is now alot like the old familiar Netscape 4.xx Interface. I suggest downloading the latest nightly build from Mozilla and switching to the Classic Skin under preferences. I'm using that now and I'm loving it.

Same here.
I'm using Mozilla on both Linux and Win98 and loving it. Still not as fast as IE but they're getting there. Compared to the builds of a couple of months ago, it's screaming fast.
Finally we'll get a good browser on all other OS's. Why should the MS users be the only who can browse the internet?

Not necessarily... I was a long time Netscape supporter and refused to give it up for a while... but by the time IE 5 came about and Netscape was crawling around so horribly, there was no more argument--Netscape was dead and IE was the only way to go. I went for a while with both, but eventually realized what a waste of hard drive space Netscape was.

with the gold version found in winMe i have to find a bug or have a crash in IE 5.5

that goes for winMe too, VERY stable on my box

...i have YET to find... (sorry for typo)

My company finished the first phase of implementing an online tax filing web application for a state gov't. We went live with that phase about 4 months ago. Because of certain features on the site, we require all taxpayers to use at least MSIE 4. We've yet to have one complaint.

I am a faithful IE user, have been since IE 3.0, but I'm curious to see how these numbers will s*** once AOL starts using Gecko as its rendering engine? I'm also curious to seel how long it takes for at least one of the Linux vendors to use Gecko as file browser a la IE on Windows.

You picked up IE just at the right time (ver 3.0).
IE was absolutely shocking before that, I had to use Netcape 2.0 until IE 3.0 came out. Netscape 2.0 was worse, though at the time it could support frames (IE couldn't) and it had a better downloading system.

I actually preferred Mosaic to Netscape 0.9b, but when Netscape 2.0 came out I was using that more and more, especially since I was able to compile a winsock app on the University's servers to allow myself to connect to the internet with that account. I was forced to use Lynx most of the time, and in Windows 3.11 too (yuck). I gave IE 2.0 a shot and IE got me interested in learning how to code HTML. MS had an excellent site dedicated to HTML tags and which were compatible with what browsers. Since v3.0 though, I pretty much stopped using Netscape except to inspect pages I had coded. Now I just design them, I gave up on coding by hand and now use GoLive and Dreamweaver. After I witnessed firsthand the memory footprint of Netscape 6.0 I scoffed at the idea of ever using Netscape again. Too bad AOL is still around, they're the phoenix that is going to rise out of the ashes of Netscape. I say let Netscape die while it's still remembered in a good light.

I really don't know if AOL will make a huge dent with gecko. I know that a lot of people simply dialup into aol, then minimize it, and run whatever browser they want because their integrated IE is annoying.

We're talking about AOL morons here. People who dial into AOL, and know enough to minimize it and run a separate browser, are definitely going to be MUCH, MUCH smarter than the average AOLer (probably kids whose parents force them to get AOL because they don't know better). Even then, they still have to choose from an external AOL customized Internet Explorer, or Netscape (you can't have real IE and AOL installed on one machine).

Whoa had no idea that IE held that high of a hold. haha always thought it was a lil lower but I can see why it is as high as it is. Simply cause IE is the best of the Windows (Don't know about Macs cause seems as though Mac users like Netscape more). Probably has something to do with the way it runs because it is integrated into Windows (and there is nothing wrong with integration, they make both of the damn products. Plenty of other Companies have done it). But I'm guessing it's simply that IE is better than other browsers. I mean remember, IE sucked with the first couple versions. But it got better and it is now the Browser we've all come to love haha. And about IE 5.01 SP1. are they really developing that ? IE 5.5 is due out soon what's the point.

That's actually suppose to read "Simply cause IE is best for Windows..."

Just for info purposes - Mac OS X will be shipping with IE.

At this rate, it won't be long before MS ships "MacOS XI: codename Whistler"

i think that integration has made IE4 and later the reason that it is a more pleasurable internet browsing experience with its far shorter start time and its overal responsiveness. now, what i want to know is what happened to IE5.5 and IE5.01 SP1. the reason that i ask is microsoft had 5.01SP1 on its IE website for about six hours one day last week and quickly removed it. additionally, 5.5 was supposed to be released at sometime in the latter parts of May or early June. my theory is this: they are putting 5.5 on hold for continued instability reasons. but, i really dont know. i think that they should put it on hold until they add some new features that even the end user can enjoy instead of all the behind-the-scenes enhancements.

It is very interesting how IE has become so popular. Obviously there are alot more people happy with the product than they care to admit. Software loyalties are becoming more political everyday. Its very much like admitting you're a republican, or a democrat. As far as the internet goes, there are two major parties, IE and Netscape. And as we can see, Netscape is losing at the polls. Netscape could have been a good browser, there are many nice features to it. However, selling out to AOL was probably their worst mistake. AOL isn't interested in developing Netscape, they are interested in developing their own browser, and eventually, their own operating system. And Mozilla, though a valiant attempt, is far too big a resource hog at present. we can only hope it will improve over the coming year(or years)
And as for operating systems, where are all these linux users if Windows is that far ahead? If there were so many linux users, as they proclaim, then Netscape and linux would be a bigger presence in the market place. This is obviously not the case. I myself use a dual boot, and 'play' with linux as a hobby. My working OS of choice is Windows 2000 Professional.

At anyrate, here endeth my dissertation.

hahhahahahahahhahahaha.....
its because Microsoft produces results
go MS! down with Nutscrape

I thought it was because Netscape has done such a piss-poor job bringing out their next browser in a timely fashion that most of it's share was lost. It will be 3 years since Netscape 4.0 release this fall, and that's way too long.

So here's a big question --- if MS fixes all their outstanding CSS1 bugs/unimplemented features in IE 5.5 (and judging from their response to prelrease 2, they've gone back to see if they can fix *some* of them for sure, what will web designers have to scream about?

...Rodney (waiting for a beta of Whistler so I can try out IE 6 beta!)

We'll I think you'll both right. MS produces a good browser and Netscape produces crap =)

Yeah waiting for Whistler too. I think it's going to be the ground breaking equivalent as Win 3.x was when it was released. I just wish that the Computer Technology industry would innovate. Seems as though they're innovating really really slow.

...dont you just hate those 2 bit graphics netscape uses in the toolbar? No wonder i have always used IE.

Its about time they get some decent graphics. Yahoo needs to get some as well !

ive never found problems with IE4/5 with CSS1. however nutscrape is a completely diffrent story.

I haven't found any CSS problems with IE5, and yeah NS 4 is another story. NS5..excuse me 6 seemed to have fixed it along with that incredibly irritating page redrawing when you change Netscape'
s window size. Why in the hell have they never fixed that? Must be it's too deeply ingrained in the rendering engine. Opera 4 easily outperforms NS4 in every way I tested, except in Javascripts.

I used NS back in version 3 and prefered it to IE3, except the fact the interface looked like a** compared to IE3. Of version 4 of the browsers IE was a no-brainer. By the time NS4 finishes loading I would have grown gray hair and a big beard. By the way text/fonts looks like crap in NS4. The NS color palatte annoys me too. I'll make some web graphics and they'll look fine in IE, but there's an annoying color s*** in NS.

I only use NS to check web page code. Infact it's the only browser I use to check code, since I'm confident everything I do will look perfectly fine on IE without actually checking in IE.