RSSInterview: Corel on Sun, Open Standards
By Ed Oswald | Published October 18, 2005, 6:00 PM
INTERVIEW Corel's Richard Carriere recently sat down with BetaNews to discuss the hype around alternative office suites and the future of WordPerfect. Carriere says the market is ready for an MS Office alternative, that Microsoft doesn't innovate, and OpenOffice.org and the OpenDocument format aren't yet viable.
BetaNews: With the recent news surrounding the release of StarOffice 8 and Massachusetts supporting OpenOffice.org, it seems like the market is ready for alternatives to Microsoft. What do you make of this news, and why is Corel speaking up?
Greg Wood, communications manager for Corel: The rationale here is we're the clear number two in the marketplace. We have a pretty good perspective on industry trends and there have been a lot of people asking questions about what this news means. And we've actually seen some benefit out of it just because of the number of people talking about office suites this week.
Richard Carriere, general manager of Office Productivity for Corel: Greg touched on a very good point. The market has never been so eager to consider alternatives based on this week's reaction, and this is good news. Look at the Sun-Google announcement; the way I read it is that Sun is now going to distribute the Google Toolbar, the same way that we distribute through some of our products a customized Corel version of the Yahoo Toolbar.
But what is very, very interesting is the interest for alternative office suites. And here we are the clear number two with a proven alternative to Microsoft Office, which is highly compatible, has the same feature richness, and where the look and feel acts like Microsoft Office. WordPerfect has been endorsed by very large OEMs like Dell who are distributing millions of copies every year.
To me, it's much better news even to companies like Sun, which has a worldwide market share of less than one tenth of a percent by any measurable metric. So in that sense, it's great news for us. That is the big "so what" of all this news.
BetaNews: Why do you think all of a sudden people seem to be getting sick of Microsoft at the same time? For example, Apple is making somewhat of a resurgence with Mac OS X, and there is a lot of interest in OpenOffice.org and StarOffice. Why do you think the public is looking for alternatives?
Richard Carriere: I don't think it's a sudden event, if anything. I think it's a normal trend. You have a dominant player in the market for many, many years. They are forcing their solutions, and their solutions don't show much innovation, and the price is relatively high. Naturally, people in any market will look for alternatives. That has been going on for a while, and that has been the main reason why WordPerfect is back and growing and successful.
Granted, we haven't done the same kind of extravagant marketing activities or announcements that some other players have done, like Sun with StarOffice, but reality is in the numbers, and we're selling millions of copies of WordPerfect. To me, this is the bottom line: Sure there is interest and a lot of press around the alternatives, and to me its good news because in the end people look at what's out there. As I said, we're the clear number two regardless of the noise that's made by Sun around StarOffice or OpenOffice.
BN: The big thing with StarOffice has been its OpenDocument support. What is Corel's status with that and can we expect it in WordPerfect anytime in the future?
RC: We are a founding member of OASIS and on the committee for the OpenDocument format, so we are participating in the creation of that standard. The reality is that, today, this standard is not adopted or being used, period. Of course, we hear news about open standards, because when you create one you don't need to necessarily rely on one single vendor, and we're fully supportive of it.
But the reality is that there's no adoption of these standards and, as far as I know, there still needs to be some development to make it into a real product. Fine, Sun announces that StarOffice will support ODF, but the reality is people need to exchange files, and today nobody is exchanging files using ODF. On the other hand, if you talk about open formats, here we are with support for PDF in WordPerfect. You can save documents in PDF and exchange them very easily. That's an open format.
We have also supported XML for many versions. We have some of our enterprise customers for whom we have created fully integrated XML solutions where you use WordPerfect Office to create and edit documents, and then in a fully automated manner you send your XML documents. So these are real examples of what's happening today. We're part of it, and quite frankly, the day that a real market materializes for ODF, we will consider it, and actually already are considering being participants in creating that format.
GW: We're heavily involved in OASIS and very strong supporters of the evolution of that ODF standard to be sure.
BN: That leads into our next question. Your company was one of the founding members of the committee. What happens if Corel sees a market for it? How long would it take to implement OpenDocument in WordPerfect?
What I don't understand is, if they are so certain they have a better product
than MS Office, and are relying on OpenOffice.org to do most of the
market-making and ground-breaking groundwork for them, which would only leave
them in third or fourth position, neck-and-neck with Lotus SmartSuite, why they
don't do some of their own market-making and ground-breaking themselves.
This could be something as simple as releasing the source code for WordPerfect
5.1 (the DOS version) under some OSI approved license as a donation to the
FreeDOS folk, and use that to grab headlines. I mean, FreeDOS does make
headlines, even though it doesn't grab quite the same top billing as Linux - but
most techie publications would quite happily run a series of articles on such a
donation by Corel!
No news is bad news, even when you've got a competent product. It's when people
can identify you as a competitor that they'll take notice, and Corel has been
well off the radar for so long I'd thought they'd flown into Mt Erebus!
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|Richard Carriere seems like having a problem accepting that fact that open stadards are good, evnthough he knows it. Is it probably becuase there is MS money in Corel. I think time has come for them to say we support or don;t support.
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|I don't mind buying software if it's quality software. It's been at least a DECADE since Corel tabled quality software.
Their QA is a joke. I have met some of their former QA testers and they said they quit because they could not work in an environment where the mindset was "get it out the door and fix it later - we don't care what state it's in, Just Get It Out The Door". Such a statement makes the bugginess of Corel's software VERY understanble.
A case in point:
Paint Shop Pro 10.
The program gets released.
ONE WEEK LATER 10.01 is released - with a list of bug fixes as long as I am tall.
I wouldn't buy a Corel product with YOUR money.
Regarding the proliferation of so-called "open standards" in terms of office documents, MS owns the office market. Period. They and only they will determine what gets used there in terms of a document standard because they have FAR more inertia and market clout than a bunch of market share wannabes. All else is a pipe dream, much as the concept of a "free" OS dethroning Windows on the desktop will remain a pipe dream.
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|Free's no good, free's never good...buy, buy, buy.
Computing has suffered since it's inception from the inability to establish standards. Standardize the standard, then you can have different flavors.
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|Your choice of office suites boils down to the same choice as your choice of a pc: How are you going to use it? How many people actually use spreadsheets? Not many. Most people use these suites for document creation with some integration of presentation. It's the same overkill that you so often see in computer purchases. They spend $3000.00 for a pc and then use it for e-mail and web search. If people would look at their real needs something like Abiword is more than sufficient for what they do.
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|reason why hes speaking up is ooo is makeing head way in to the market so it will affect these guys hehehe
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|I've personally been getting people converted to OpenOffice. Seriously, how often will someone call an office suite for support? Anyway, I get on it and learn it, and if they have questions, they call me, someone they know. Then after a while, they will learn to be productive on it - and eventually it will be brought up when talking to their friends or family, and more people will have heard of it and more will be using it.
What's the real problem with Open Office? If you ask me, it's not sold in stores. We all want something right away, and we all know how to go to the store and buy something. Not everyone knows how to download things off the net, and then there are those with slow connections. Then finding the downloaded file isn't always as easy (if you don't know about the directory to save as) as popping in a cd and watch it work.
Also, Corel can't truely be excited about Open Documents. Less support will either make your product fail, or delay the other product that you don't support.
Free is the best kind of X - that's practially the motto in our house, after all, who can complain about something you have a choice to use for free? Use it, make suggestions, and or payup.
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|When you ask, "...who can complain about something you have a choice to use for free?", the answer is plenty. Pegasus Mail was an EXCELLENT program. The programmer offered his services for free, though we sent a donation. Several times he was ready to give up on Pegasus Mail b/c of all the crap he got from some users blasting him. The majority of us appreciated his efforts, but the moral of the story is some people will tell you off while they continue using your free product. Expect the same of some OpenOffice users.
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|- "we will welcome broader adoption of open standards, whether its ODF, XML, or other formats like PDF"
Did they realize that the more office suites will support one of them the faster this will happen, for the benefit of all alternatives suites ? (making those alternatives able to claim their openess againts vendor lock in, and their viability, ...).
And it could only be ODF: "XML" is nothing but a generic name, not an office document standard (ODF is XML, btw), pdf doesn't suite for spreadsheets and the like (think about equations).
So actually Corel want to play alone rather than joining the grouped front of alternatives office suites (both free, abiword, gnumeric, koffice, openoffice, and commercials like textmaker or staroffice).
It's unfortunate, since (they even aknowldged this on the interview) making alternatives strongers by alliance just help all of them. They said that the hype around staroffice benefits them, so what, why don't they go this way ?
They basically did got this interview only because of the ODF momentum, but be assured that the press won't cover them for a long time if they only have to say "we don't support it".
- Did RC released that ODF is actually XML ? he present them like exclusive formats
- To count them as "the second one", they only aknowledge the number of StarOffice sold. But did they realized that OpenOffice is basicaly the same product, and because it's free, is downloaded massively ?
clearly, they'll loose soon here, without even noticing what hapenned.
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|Corel today is nothing but a shell of what it was in the past - they are hardly a successful company!
Corel is a washout, full of promises but no delivery, remember Corel Linux and the Corel Java based office suit?
Then they suckled from the Microsoft teat ($135 million) and that was the end of Corel.
As a matter of fact Corel was delisted after it's stock value collapsed and was sold to Vector Capital for about $1 per share (chump change).
Since then Corel just more or less supports an every shrinking list of clients and customers.
Corel has heard of innovation, but that was in the past and they associate that word with FAILURE!
Corel is definately not a significant player, probably still has strong ties to Microsoft so can hardly be classified as an independant player.
Bar
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|The Corel people are quite wrong in their comments that ODT hasn't gained marketshare yet therefore is a failure. You'll pardon me for pointing out the obvious but Star Office 8 has only just been launched an OpenOffice.org v2.0 is not out of RC status yet, therefore how many enterprises will have standardized on it?
The whole point of ODT is that a large number of applications can read, *modify* and *write* files in this one standard format making the individual software package used less important. Corel are just scared that people will have no reason to buy their software now that competing software is free.
Maybe if Corel had pushed this movement they could have had a bigger part of the future, as is they seem like the last person across the finishing line in a marathon, complaining that they "could have been a contenda".
Damien
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|I am not a market analyst, but I am very sceptical about WordPerfect market share. I wish there were some hard numbers instead of unsubstantiated "clear number two" talk.
And please check the facts about Munich. They are using Debian, and OpenOffice, but not under any contract from IBM.
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|Comparing Wordperfect to Ms Office is very much like comparing a Ferrari to an Honda CIvic. Wordperfect was/is the innovator . It is the paragon and the simplest Office Suite to use . Market share !!! who cares.Simplicity, I care. For the ordinary consumer a document is just a document. You can dress is up , at the cost of 400 megabytes..but in the final analysis it is a mere document.. I hope OPEN OFFICE in whatever form reduces market share from Microsoft.Let them focus on producing a perfect Operating System and stay away from ancillary products
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|no support for ooo?
http://www.sun.com/servi...ort/software/openoffice/
http://bizdev.openoffice.org/consultants.html
http://support.openoffice.org/
riiight.
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|Nate,
Nobody would have to convert any ms-word documents if they switched to Corel WP, it can open them without issue. One thing I'd like to point out is that OpenOffice supports both an open standard XML format and also PDF files. Although, anyone who knows how to use PDFCreator (open source and totally free, http://sf.net/projects/pdfcreator/) can already make any printable document into a PDF file. Also Open Office can read mw-word documents too. Corel is scared in my opinion. They know that while OpenOffice isn't as user-friendly, it is completely free and about to release v2.0, which probably has them more scared than ever.
Cheers,
Christian
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|Being able to simply read them and opening documents with complex formatting are completely different. Sure, you may be able to read the content well, but it won't be exactly how you designed it initially. Those are the types of things businesses need to worry about. And what if you send a document to a customer in WordPerfect and they only have MS Word?
Corel has done a good job with compatibility and that's why they are still in business. But reverse-engineered compatibility isn't enough to convince people to switch document formats - there is a lot to take into consideration if you're running a business.
Corel thinks that it's okay to make millions, even if your competitor is making billions. If I were in their position, I'd probably be pretty happy too. Nothing wrong with having millions.
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|None of that will matter in a year or so...read that 'newsflash' below.
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|You honestly believe that?
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|I believe that it is very much possible...of course competition won't lay down and do nothing about it either. I think the real problem with 'that' is compatability. With sooo much being integrated together we both know it'll have several bugs in it--but I'm off topic even more now.
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|You said, "Sure, you may be able to read the content well, but it won't be exactly how you designed it initially. Those are the types of things businesses need to worry about."
Try opening an older Word file in a new version of Word. For that matter, try opening a current word file in a current copy of Word but with a different printer.
What ODF offers is the ability to actual know that you can open these files in years to come and know that you will be able to see it as you produced it, regardless of the tools you used or are using now.
It really is time to move to something better.
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|"Carriere says the market is ready for an MS Office alternative, that Microsoft doesn't innovate, and OpenOffice.org and the OpenDocument format aren't yet viable."
What a joke, and WordPerfect is also a joke and an embarrassment. Corel is a company that is content never to take the next step.
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|Newsflash Corel geniuses: http://www.tgdaily.com/2...ation_at_pdc/index.html
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|It bothers me that they are happy to be the #2. I as a consumer don't just want a generic alternative, I want something flat out better then the current market leader.
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|Well, Corel is #2 in terms of market share. They aren't saying WordPerfect is #2 in quality behind Microsoft Office. In fact, reading the interview it seems to me they believe their suite performs better than MS Office.
But obviously, you have to be realistic about the situation. People aren't just going to switch formats with the flick of a switch. Who has time to go convert thousands of old documents? I think that's why Corel is content with being #2, because they understand beating Microsoft in terms of share is probably impossible.
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|I, too, took that from this interview. Its like they have lost the fire and/or the guts to fight Microsoft.
Its a damn shame too, because WP used to be a top-notch office suite. Now you dont hear a thing from them anymore.
They at LEAST could have plugged an upcoming release, mentioned something they have brewing in the labs, made mention of some cool new features. SOMETHING. But instead it was a, "We just got more renewals, so our stuff cant be THAT bad." kind of attitude.
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|I tried Openoffice and was fairly impressed with its feature set and stability. Then I tried opening some Office 2000 .DOCs and .RTFs. It couldn't translate them properly, esp. when it came to embedded graphics. Corel knows what its talking about in this arena - its ALL about letting people wean themselves off the ol' standby, and beating MS at their own "embrace and extend" game. BTW, Wordperfect 9 opens those files I mentioned flawlessly.
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|I think this guy is clueless as to how the market is changing. Has it ever occurred to him that people who use openoffice.org don't want support? No one I know has used WordPerfect since maybe Novell's versions... we all have a copy simply because the crappy software came bundled with our machine or some hardware we bought. No one gives a crap about drivers either... that's what we have Microsoft for. He says "nobody exchanges files in ODF" which is also a raft of crap... I've been doing it for years with hundreds of clients. Yes, a number of my clients are using MSoffice and use .doc files, but how dumb are you to not figure out that openoffice.org can also use the .doc and a multitude of other formats. ALL of my clients are making the switch to OO.o v2 because it just makes sense. Everyone knows how to use an office suite, what support do you think it is we're looking for that we can't already find through Google? What rock is this guy hiding under cus he doesn't know squat about today's market? Sorry buddy, guys coding in their basement are going to be the reasons why morons like you don't have a job in ten years.
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|He's talking about the mass market, not the little niche that consists of us who know what we're doing. Ever turn on the TV and spot an ad for Video Professor? Ever laugh at it? Well don't, because it's there for one reason -- it sells. Why does it sell? Because 90% of the "market" doesn't know what the heck they're doing. They don't know how to make tables, they don't know how to create macros, they might not even know which button correctly closes their document instead of the entire program. The only thing moronic here is "us," the more literate computer users, the ones who know how to find things on Google if we need to because we simply think that everyone is as clever as us. That's not to say that I consider myself the grand supreme being of this earth who thinks he's better than everyone else -- no, but I realize that what I lack in the field of business managment for example I may make up for in my computer knowledge. So then the reverse might be true for someone who doesn't know squat about computers.
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