Why are there so many childish PS3/bluray fans here? You should stay in the bluray forum eh. Seems like almost all bluray fans are actually playstation fanboys scared of loosing, and tired of waiting for the games sony promised them would be the real next gen games. Myselfe I think the war is far from over. Sony seems to put a lot $$ into tv commercials lately and that has helped them for sure. Toshiba and the rest of the HD-DVD camp really need to step up in this area. That will make a big difference. Education is key!

Oh My god, is this still going on, Hocuspokus, face it HD DVD is dead for heavens sake and even if sub $100 machines come out some of us dont buy tat and the big boys like pioneer will not start producing tat to please the HD DVD market fans. Do you know that the bst DVD players are pioneeer and denon and they still cost even today £1000 which as a direct conversion to your currency would be $2000 so stop it with the cheap cr*p talk. Go and play GTA IV on your XBOX and when you have to keep getting up to change the DVD to drive into the next part of the city think about buying a PS3.

Oppo's line of universal DVD players are quite simply some of the best around, gathering rave reviews and critical acclaim the world over... for ¼ the price of most Denon models.

I'll never understand people who choose to pay outrageous sums for equipment based solely on a brand name, when far less expensive products of equal or better reliability, performance, features, and format support exist.

Go and read every home cinema mag and look at reviews by people like HDTV.com and come back and say Denon is just a brand. You get what you pay for, by cheap you get cheap, I know you Americans like cheap crap but we in England like proper stuff and we buy the likes of Denon and Pioneer thank you very much. I suppose your an XBOX fan and think Windows Vista is a good opperating system.

The Blu-ray fans can go f*ck themselves.

Blu-ray only has well under 1% of the total movie disc market.

Just cos some of the obviously self-interested a$$holes within 'the industry' imagine (wrongly) that 1 high def format will get their snouts back in the sort of deep trough they once had when DVD first began is no reason for HD DVD to give up at all.

F*ck Circuit City too (bet they were bought).

They'll be back.

LMAO too @ Woolworths, like anyone buys anything much there anymore.

This is just the Blu-ray side doing their best to shout up as much 'momentum' as they can before the HD DVD moves start.

HD DVD China starts march and when it does the same manufacturers that make the sub $100 SD DVD that outsell everything on the DVD market now will be replaced by their new lines of sub $100 SD DVD players that also happen to be very nice HD DVD players.

Game over game console format.

"HD DVD China starts march and when it does the same manufacturers that make the sub $100 SD DVD that outsell everything on the DVD"

Another Hocuspokus prediction. Remeber where you heard it first folks!!, just like the Warner going HD DVD exclusive right???

LOL, I can't believe there are idiots still in their little fairy world, where HD DVD still had a chance. It never stood a chance....

Even Microsoft are now talking Blu it seems...

http://www.eurogamer.net...le.php?article_id=91500

Looks like rabid fanbots like Hocuspokus have alienated another studio.

http://formatwarcentral....dvd-for-future-releases/

Looks like BDA don't need to do anything, the HD DVD idiots are destorying their format on their own...

Your first link: Not really a secret. MS announced, over a year ago, that if BR won the format war, they would consider a BR add-on.

Second link: LMAO. This guy (who creates movies that are a niche genre, within a niche market) gets his feelings hurt on a forum, so he's not going to release in a certain format? Jesus...even with your multiple accounts, you're a bit manlier than this. Regardless of how much abuse you take, you keep coming back for more.

"Another Hocuspokus prediction. Remeber where you heard it first folks!!, just like the Warner going HD DVD exclusive right???"

- Read Ken Graffeo's interview idiot.

By any sane reading of it I was correct; right up until the very last moment the only truth anyone could have known was that Warner were going HD DVD exclusive.

They switched (thanks to the WB Blu-ray supporting CEO & a handful on the board) at the very last moment.

So anyone claiming they knew they were going Blu is either a liar or guessing - probably both.

This reminds me of a child who has had its toy taken away and will now pretend to hate its parents untill the situation is forgotten. HD DVD = Dead, and DVD sales are flatening and Blu-ray sales are increasing in momentum to the extent toshiba could only dream of with reference to their fire sale. Plus your forgetting Blu-ray cant fail, its the format for future games for the PS3 and it gives the possibiliy for games that microsoft can only dream about, I suppose the XBOX 720 is in development, I wonder what format it will use, obviousy not HD DVD

HD DVD sales have gone from bad to worse. This week will be the 3rd week in a row that HD DVD player and media sales have plummeted since all those studios dumped HD DVD.

Even the industry is calling for Toshiba/Paramount/Universal to give it up.

http://www.dvdfile.com/i...p;task=view&id=6496

http://www.dvdreview.com/coffee/pages/524.html

Hell, even retailers are dumping you, first Target, now Woolworths.

http://www.gamesindustry...tent_page.php?aid=32482

And Circuit City..

http://www.1080living.co...file=article&sid=17

I give BestBuy a few more weeks personally...

The numbers dont Lie...

Pro HD-DVD: 30,169
http://www.petitiononlin...m/SAVEHDD/petition.html

Pro Blu-Ray: 10,583
http://www.petitiononlin.../HDVDeath/petition.html

And please tell us how long each petition has been running...

Yep, thats right, the Pro HD DVD one has been running since Jan 4th (24 days), the HDVDeath one has been running a week.

Oh, and it's not Pro Blu-ray, it's just asking for HD DVD to die, so we can move on...

So it seems more people want an end to the war and let HD DVD die...

And neither got any press until last week.

Another HD DVD fanbot lie. I heard about the HD DVD one on Jan4th, when all the HD DVD fanbots posted the link on every forum on the planet, in the hope it would make a difference...

So tell us, how many times you signed it then? For example:

27679. Judy The Look and Sound of Desperation
27675. Judy The Look and Sound of Failure
27673. Judy The Look and Sound of (Please Insert Disc 2)

I believe this format war is far from over.

I believe history repeats itself.

I believe a greedy corporation run by arrogant execs can't buy victory no matter how many billions of dollars they pour into forcing one.

I believe trying to Trojan horse a media format by marrying it to a console will alienate your fans.

I believe if HD-DVD loses, we all lose and BD will never ever gain wide acceptance, no matter how many studios Sony buys off.

Believe in believing and your beliefs will believe in you! The unbelievable becomes believable. This summer, coming to a theater near you.

I believe.

Oh Lord, I believe!

Hallelujah!

Do you copy everything in life.. I think you do... Think for yourself for a change...

And yours? Not one misspelled word or grammatical error, and no edits... so out of character for you. I suppose you're going to claim that yours was original?

I cannot begin to describe how hypocritical that statement was.

if there is any reason we all lose out on HD Media it is because of people like you, and Toshiba....

I don't see what the problem really is here...the consumer has spoken, and blu-ray has outsold HD-DVD EVERY week in 2007...thats EVERY WEEK people...there is really no difference in either format except for your blind hatred of Sony...Sony is not buying off studios anymore than Toshiba did when they paid Paramount to go HD-DVD exclusive...

rootkit fiasco, mini-disc, umb etc aside, they have NOTHING to do with blu-ray and are therefore a non-issue...

blu-ray offers higher storage capacity (don't even bring up the TL 51GB HD-DVD's because they have still not even produced ONE of them and proved it will run on older players

it has more content, more backing studios, a higher install base...yadda yadda yadda...its over for HD-DVD and the right thing to do is support that winning format, not throw a temper tantrum because you spent money on the wrong format...you SHOULD have known what you were getting into when you decided to become an early adopter...

even the profile problem does not have ANY affect on you...because you don't have a BD player...so you can wait a couple months and get a 2.0 player, or pick up a 40GB PS3 and have a player now that can be updated later

The consumer has not spoken. The early adopters and some studio's have spoken. The mass market hasn't even been tapped yet. They are still with DVD and will be for a while until pricess of the players and media come down in price just like Toshiba did with their players.

IF blu wins they will need to drop the price of the players down to the same price that the A3 is at now it will be a long, long time before blu will drop their prices. Most people don't want to spend that much money for a player of either format and most people don't want to buy a gaming console to play movies on. They want a stand alone unit and it will be a long time before blu can get one that low.

As for supporting your "winning format" I'm in the same boat as most people. I don't want to buy a PS3 and I'm not going to wait a few months to buy a $500-$700 profile 2.0 player. Even if they came out at $300 I wouldn't buy one because it's still over priced for me. Price is a HUGE factor and it doesn't matter how many studio's are backing the format. If the prices don't come down it will never take off.

I don't believe that consumer has spoken, at all. What we're seeing here, is a case of the studios deciding for the consumer.

Had we seen neutrality from all of the studios (in much the same way that video game publishers are 'multi-platform'), and we arrived at this point, then I'd agree that the consumer had spoken.

But alas, it's not a perfect world, and that's not the case. The various studios picked their sides, for whatever reason (DRM, a dislike of other companies involved, whatever...), and have been trying to lead the consumer one way or the other, ever since.

It's rare that companies jump ship, without some form of financial incentive, these days. A pay-off doesn't have to be cash trading hands directly (which is what I believe all of the parties are denying); it could be any number of incentives and subsidies (advertising, lower licensing costs, etc). And for the record, I believe that both sides of this war are guilty of this.

The rootkit, failed formats, etc. may not have anything to do with blu-ray, but they have everything to do with Sony...one of the most vocal and well known members of the BDA (in regards to BR). Sony's actions as a company (regardless of division) have left a bad taste in many peoples' mouths, and it's understandable that people are hesitant to trust them at this point. The bad press that Sony has recieved over the last year or so, means that they have to do a lot of work to regain the consumers trust.

I believe that HDTV is an absolute good and HDMs are an inalienable right.

I believe that I love movies so much in HD I want access to all of them. I believe that the quickest and clearest path to this is a single format that everyone can rally around and that adoption by the masses and corresponding releases by the studios will not happen until there is a single format.

I believe what matters to consumers is having access to movies in crystal clear hi-def, something both formats offer. I believe all the rest - PIP, DRM, 1.1, 2.0, TL51, scratch coatings, PCM, DTS, HDi, bit rates, lossless, lossy, etc. etc. is just noise to your average consumer.

I believe the HDM battle between Blu-Ray and HD DVD is over. I believe it's over because I don't believe that retailers, Paramount,Universal et al want to drag this thing out any more than I do.

I believe that one week of lopsided sales numbers could be a fluke, two weeks a coincidence and three weeks a trend. I believe that next week we'll see a trend.

I believe the coup de grace will be delievered in June - about the same time same time Warner titles are pulled from the shelves.

I believe the war against SD DVD is just beginning.

I believe we're a tiny thorn in DVD's side, that we're out manned, out gunned, that no one thinks we can win. I believe they're wrong and I believe that we'll win this war, because I believe in progress.

I believe in power of true competition.

I believe in the market.

I believe, despite hiring George Foreman to design the thing, Sony did a fantastic job with the PS3. It's an awsome piece of AV equipment - it just is.

I believe the prices of Blu-ray players will continue to fall long after the last HD DVD player has been bought from the last clearance bin.

In fact, I believe that one day, a lot sooner than people think, it'll be hard to find a DVD player that doesn't play BD movies.

I believe HD downloads won't ever happen on a mass scale - the pipe just isn't big enough.

I believe early adopters take chances.

I believe there are some who hope BD and HDMs fails because their horse lost the race. I don't believe anyone who holds such hope could possibly claim to be a true fan of HDMs. I believe this is the saddest thing I've seen in this whole sorry affair.

I believe their only weapon left is misdirection, obfuscation and scorn. I believe you'll see that in their replies.

Thankfully, I believe they're as small in number, as they are loud in posts.

This, I believe.

I believe that was sad.

I believe that you have WAY too much free time.

Thanks Ken, We still support you, and my dollars continue to support Universal, Paramount & HD DVD every week.

must be getting tougher and tougher to spend that money considering nobody makes HD-DVD players other than Toshiba, and they are loosing movie studios by the second....

you should be asking Ken why he and his buddies are still trying to convince you that HD-DVD has a snow ball's chance in hell of surviving this format war....people say blu ray fans blindly support that format....i say anyone who supports HD-DVD when only 2 studios even release in that format anymore are blindly supporting a dead format....HD-DVD is killing the High Def market be refusing to concede defeat!

don't you ever get a silly feeling over the fact you are crazy over a "war" that the "winner" will win a niche market ?

please....the only reason HD Media might become a niche market is if HD-DVD continues to try and fool consumers into believing that HD-DVD has a future.....

DVD did not start to outsell VHS untill 2003!! it was almost something like 7 years before units sold were equal between the two...to assess HDM vs DVD sales at this point is of no use....because if you have done the same to DVD you would have concluded DVD was dead in the water....but that is obviously not the case....as late as 2003 there were still people that did not think DVD would ever totally replace VHS, and that VHS would still be around in some form or another....

What about when sony refused defeat when the beta vs vhs war was on? What about now with that stupid umd format they are still trying to push?

UPDATE: both Nate Mook and Ken Graffeo are looking for new jobs.. I hear McDonalds are hiring...

Post removed and user banned in 3... 2... 1...

do you get paid by sony for each moronic post ?

We can only hope it's an IP ban. Otherwise it'll be the same crap, only posted by Steve Austin :)!

The latest Home Media Magazine has been released with the latest Nielson VideoScan data, and for the week ending January 20th, Blu-ray disc sales accounted for 83% of the high definition market. During this time, there were no Buy-One-Get-One-Free sales, showing the complete dominance that Blu-ray holds in the high definition market even without purchasing incentives.

While some analysts concluded that Blu-ray's hold on the high definition market was only a temporary spike due to the Warner announcement, it appears that the trend will continue as more and more consumers discover the benefits of Blu-ray.

For me, it's the movies that are available. Neither format has issued classic movies that I want...I'm not going to rebuy the few they have issued. I want a better selection.

man, I'm really surprised this guy hasn't been asked by Universal to retire yet

Anyone want to be how long Nate Mook and Ken Graffeo last in their current jobs?

With biased reporting, and unsound buisness decisons, not very long I think...

They deleted this the last time you posted it, so I wouldn't expect it to remain too long here.

That said, I'm pretty sure that BN won't turn into the 'mutual admiration society' that bluray.com is.

If you can't deal with that, then that's your own tough luck.

oh please spare me. HD-DVD owners knew what they were getting into, as did blu ray owners. Both knew that one of these formats was going to die, and blu-ray happened to win this format war. Since high def movies/players is considered more of a luxury type item, everyone buying into it COULD afford it, or could afford to lose it. I don't have any sympathy. If blu ray had just lost, i'd be pissed but i'd probably go out the next day and buy hd-dvd player. People need to stop being such f***ing babies and get over this

i nominate this bd/hdvd thing as the most worthless thing to argue about for the last 2 years. the hype to penetration ratio is rediculous.

Show your support. Sign the DIE HD-DVD Petition (7500+ and counting)

http://www.petitiononline.com/HDVDeath/

Interesting, check the names:

Pro HD-DVD:
Joe Furguson
Craig Dyer
Scott Narver
Matt Key
(And the like)

Pro Blu:
Scricco Devis
Guittet Arnaud
Acciuga
N1truX

Anything look suspecious?

Nah, not suspicious any more, just obvious. It's simply typical childish 'Project Hydra' mentality.

That's funny. Check out some of the names I found on the pro-HDDVD side...

Anita Bath
I.P. Freely
Ollie Tabooger
Seymour Butts
Maya Buttreeks
Homer Sexual
Mike Rotch
Eura Snotball
Oliver Klozoff
Hugh Jass
Haywood U. Cuddleme
Ivanna Tinkle
Amanda Huggenkiss
&
Jackie Knoff

Very interesting indeed.

Hey, would ya look at that...

Matt Groening's a supporter, too! :)

lol... Maybe since his movie is Blu-Ray only, he couldn't use his real name.

:)

At least it's all in good fun. The 'format war' has certainly been entertaining.

Actually, I wouldn't doubt it if eventually there was a movie about the whole ordeal... along the same vein as Pirates of Silicon Valley, perhaps.

Show your age and promote yet another pathetic childish petition.
Yeah.. pass

Relax Setian^Stalker...

Nobody takes these petitions seriously.

"Show your support. Sign the DIE HD-DVD Petition (7500+ and counting)"

Apparently you did

Show your support. Sign the HD-DVD Petition (19000+ and counting)

http://www.petitiononlin...m/SAVEHDD/petition.html

I signed it earlier this morning, being 17,858.

Checked it just now, and it's up to 20,570.

What is it with people and these petitions?
God sakes people lets have some integrity!

So, for us to have integrity, we need turn a blind eye to the possibility that the corporations we are petitioning against have none?

Granted, petitions rarely serve their intended purposes, but it allows those who wish to become part of a larger voice against a higher power to be heard, no matter how futile the efforts or bleak the eventual outcome may be. So be it. Let those who wish to participate take part. At least when all is said and done, it will let them feel like they at least tried instead of feeling as though there was nothing they could do about it. The consumer should always have a voice in the matter.

Once in a while though, petitions actually work.

HD DVD owners have invested in a format that they do not wish to see die off, and most likely purchased their players for one reason only... HD movies. It's understandable that they do not wish to see their investment wasted because of possible shady dealings at the corporate level.

Forgive my rambling, please. :)

Theres petitioning and then theres (this kind of) petitioning. This achieves absolutly nothing more than someone starting a poll on his/her blog.
For these sorts of things you are far better off contacting the company thats offended you and letting them have it.
Because anyone can sign this with absolute ease it doesnt hold any weight. In fact, its just outright whinging.

I'd be happy to see some examples where this kind of stuff has worked on a large scale though. I recall some game developer years ago perhaps...

I prefixed my comment with ZOMFGLOL for a reason (it was a funny counter), but you are right. These petitions are pretty meaningless.

Or let HD DVD die..

http://www.petitiononlin.../HDVDeath/petition.html

10,000+ and counting, and has only been running a week, not a month like the Save HD DVD petition.

To quote HD DVD fanbot nonsense. "Consumers have spoken".

You can get a Toshiba HD-EP30 in the UK from Play.com for under £120 delivered now, it is a no brainer to buy one at that price, it is only £20 more than a Sony upscaling DVD player.

Great to see the HD DVD players still selling so well.

Amazon USA (only the world's 2nd largest retailer) have the HD A3 at number 1 best selling DVD player (and the HD A30 at 3 & the HD A35 at 10).
http://www.amazon.com/gp.../172514/ref=pd_ts_e_nav

The HD A3 is also the 10th best selling electrical item in the entire Amazon USA inventory (the only Blu-ray player in that list is at 81).
http://www.amazon.com/gp...s_pg_4?ie=UTF8&pg=4

So much for the Sony/PS3/Blu-ray shill-troll-lying f*ckwits campaign to talk-up their 'it's all over' sh!te.

Yes, they have been. I've been watching them for the last week or so and the A3, A30, and A35 were 1, 2, and 3 in the best sellers for DVD Players.

I saw the A3 get as low as number 3 in All Electronics and the Blu-ray player drop out of the top 100. The A3 has been in the top 10 for about a week solid or at least when I've looked since it's updated hourly.

I'll remember HD DVD for giving us everything and best picture quality from day one (though sacrificing space for price). I'll always laugh at fanboys saying bluray is superior.

Thanks to HD DVD, we've got very affordable price. (excluding combo disks, which are 5$ more expensive than blu ray disks).

No doubt HD DVD is a much better engineered format.Anyone who has a GENUINE interest in watching movies(NOT GAMES)looks at the specs in regards to audio(DTS MASTER AUDIO)and visual(MPEG4)knows it's gonna sound and look sweet on their system.Anyone who applies some logic sees the internet capabilities/interactive features and then the price--it's a NO BRAINER.
Bluray people need to get their HEAD OUT OF SONY'S ARSE and have a look around and smell the roses
By the way,please sign the petition and pass it on to make your voice heard.This list is growing fast and never mind if it has an effect or not,it shows our determination to the studios to wake up and sell HD DVD's to us
http://www.petitiononlin...perl/signed.cgi?SAVEHDD
Cheers and thanks

Signed. Thanks.

Benjamin oh Benjamin i posted the rootkit thing plain and simply because I have been reading these comments for a while now and i mentioned the anti Sony comment for one thing only...facts! YOUR HYPOCRISY IS PRICELESS AND YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE IT! I BELIEVE IT'S CALLED DENIAL!!

Combo disks - good idea!
Glad to finally hear an executive differentiate between the set top player and the gaming device! Sony has murked those waters enough.
Planning to get blu ray at some point anyway, but dang, does it have to be at 2x or 3x the price of my A30?
Trying to understand the BD pricing, has been like trying to understand the price of oil.
: )

Almost all my HD-DVDs are combo disks. HD on one side, and DVD on the other.

They just need to get the price down, and advertise it more.

You are right!
yep - saw the "shrek" HD-DVD TV ad a few days ago.
The HD DVD forum should pool resources and do a Superbowl Ad!

This is key. If they can get the HD DVD prices down to near that of DVD (or heck, even replace DVDs), the Promotional Group will be in a much better position market-wise. The Combo discs are the only thing that makes the investment worthwhile (for standard consumers, not high-def enthusiasts) in any HD format.

I've pinged them on this, and should receive a response in the next day or two.

A nice thought, if only Samsung (who released the first Blu-ray console) wasn't the "official HDTV of the NFL" (according to their commercials).

what do you expect this guy to say honestly? He would be fired on the spot if he said something like "well we really took it in the rear when Warner jumped ship....things are looking pretty bad on the sales front...right now..." i mean honestly people...

i just don't get you people....yes Sony had the rootkit fiasco, but thats in the past, and has nothing to do with blu-ray....you guys bring up the possibility of discs being locked to players , and not being able to play them elsewhere...but you also champion the idea of digital distribution....let me know when the average person starts carrying around external hard drives to transport their movies around a couple at a time....

if you want to continue to blindly support HD-DVD and refuse to buy blu-ray then so be it....i will enjoy the last two Harry Potter movies....i will continue to enjoy my POTC movies...i will enjoy the LOTR movies, and Star Wars (distributed by Fox) when they are released on blu-ray...at least Hollywood realizes that while he may have supported hd-dvd that blu-ray looks to be a solid winner, and that he will be buying fims on blu-ray....

give it up about the players...early adopters sometimes get screwed....it happens...did HD-DVD have a more finished, and prepared product at launch? absolutely....but regardless the consumer has spoken every single week this year and BD has outsold HD-DVD every week....the older players will still play the movies...and thats what REALLY matters...all of your digital distribution and "on-demand" nonsense doesnt have any special features anyways....so give it up....

This is true -- Sony BMG the record label was involved in the rootkit, not Sony Pictures or Sony Electronics. However, what it did was give people a bad taste in their mouth against Sony. That's life, and Sony can't really do anything about that except work hard to repair their image.

I don't think those that support HD DVD are doing it blindly -- they have very specific reasons why: combo format, lower prices, and players that won't become obsolete.

Obviously a lot of people support and are buying Blu-ray, but the market is still way too new for either side to "give up." The fat lady has not yet sung, and there's no reason people should stop supporting the format they like.

Sony BMG's rootkit fiasco didn't put a bad taste in the consumer's mouths. That's silly. Last year they were rated the number one most trusted company in the world according to Forrester Research.

Really? I'm fairly certain that the number one most trusted brand was Bose. But at least Sony was on the list... I'll give you that.

That was for the US I'm certain and was early last year that research was conducted.

In comparison truste rated them somewhat low in trust in the same region.

Sure it did.

To Sony: Please trust your customers
To Sony: Please treat your customers with the respect they deserve
To Sony: Please be truthful at an earlier stage about Blue Ray players that will not be compatible within 12 months
To Sony: Please Do not infest your customers with rootkits
To Sont: Please Do not advertise as if the customer has no brain
To Sony: Please take your products off the market we will not miss you
TO ALL: DO NOT BUY SONY

Nice. None of these are true actually.

If anyone screwed over consumers in the ways mentioned, it was Microsoft by lauching a known faulty and feature incomplete console on 10 million consumers, just to beat Sony to launch. (hmm they did it with Vista too..)

Sony of course waited until ther PS3 was complete and reliable..

So tell us again who are the bad guys, who don't care about consumers, just marketshare... So next time Microsoft screws you over remember why. Because you reward them for screwing you over, by buying their products.

None?

Yeah, everyone made up the rootkit thing just to make Sony look bad and Profile 1 players will work with all content on profile 2.0 discs?

Really???

Wow....

WGA ring any bells? I suggest you actually be informed about the rootkit, it was vastly blown out of all proportion by rabid journlelists (like Nate Mook)...

And yes, Profile 1.0 players will play Blu-ray movies just fine... That can't be said for HD DUD TL51GB discs, which will only play on G3 players (hence the vaporware status)

Picutre-in-picture is a valuable feature for movies (viewing commentaries and special features atop the playing movie), which is not on Profile 1.0 players.

Having 51GB on a disc is unnecessary. There hasn't been one movie that hasn't fit on 30GB, with all the extras. Having an extra 20GB of space really serves no purpose, except to include uncompressed audio, which is silly when perfectly good lossless codecs exist (compression without quality loss).

Again, you talk nonsense. There are already several Profile 1.0 discs with PiP.

OK, it was done by duplicating the PiP encode, but who cares, it's possible, and Blu-ray has an extra 20GB to play with anwyay...

Not than much of this matters anyway, as there is already a very large Profile 1.1 userbase, (I would guess 90% of Blu-ray players are Profile 1.1 ready, including the PS3).

The funniest nonsense here, is the Unfinished spec nonsense. Profile 1.1 and Profile 2.0 live in parallel, just like different levels of funcionality in other consumer goods. Contary to what the numbskulls here say, Profile 2.0 will not superceed Profile 1.1.

ROFLMAO!

You bring up WGA (apparently its a Bad Thing™) to respond?

So, even if one accepts the assumption that WGA is Bad...how the hell does that make any difference regarding how bad rootkits are?

Don't be an idiot.
Rootkits are Bad...mmkay?

Installing them without notice is Bad....mmmmkay?

Trying to argue that something is not Bad by giving an example of something that is questionably bad? Well...that's priceless.

As for profile...

I said "all content". Your response totally ignores that bit. How convenient...

Aruging with a Sony zealots pointless.

So tell us all what is automatically makes a rookit bad...

Yes, most rookits are malicious, but that does not mean all rootkits are malicious.

Sony were protecting their content (Audio CD), in the same way WGA and AACS, BD+ protects othet content, the fact it installed itself without prompting, and hid itself is what annoyed people, it did not actually do ANYTHING bad to your system...

"HD-DUD"

grow up, oh wait your only 12 dave

Are you implying that it didn't insert itself into Window s so deep that it didn't show up in a process list?

Sorry, Sony is an evil company that doesn't deserve to continue existence.

Yes, I vote with my money.

Until you have movies that run longer than 7 hours at 1080P 51GB will be just fine, but thanks for the FUD.

"Are you implying that it didn't insert itself into Window s so deep that it didn't show up in a process list?"

No, but tell me what harm it did...

Lets also get some perspective. 20,000 harmless (but arguably dishonest) $15 Audio CD's, or 10 million knowingly faulty $400 Xbox 360s...

Oh, so it's ok for a company to root your computer because it didn't do any damage?

WOW, that's just unbelievable.

"The software interferes with the normal way in which the Microsoft Windows operating system plays CDs, opening security holes that allow viruses to break in, and causing other problems. It is widely described as spyware."

http://en.wikipedia.org/...copy_protection_scandal

"The software interferes with the normal way in which the Microsoft Windows operating system plays CDs, opening security holes that allow viruses to break in, and causing other problems. It is widely described as spyware."

http://en.wikipedia.org/...copy_protection_scandal

a Wikipedia article edited by rabid fanboys. very credible..

Here is something from the same source...

"Anti-virus firm F-Secure asserted, "Although the software isn't directly malicious, the used rootkit hiding techniques are exactly the same used by malicious software to hide themselves."

More credible than a single post of yours so far.

Thanks.

More:
http://www.eff.org/cases/sony-bmg-litigation-info

From your very post "used rootkit hiding techniques are exactly the same used by malicious software to hide themselves"

Yep, evil company.

Thanks.

"very large Profile 1.1 userbase"

You mean all the 14 year olds that got PS3s last year for christmas.

"Again, you talk nonsense. There are already several Profile 1.0 discs with PiP.

OK, it was done by duplicating the PiP encode, but who cares, it's possible, and Blu-ray has an extra 20GB to play with anwyay..."

I just simply do not know where to begin with that warped logic... that's truly sad.

With the "unfinished spec" comment, yes... it will be well over 2 years since the format's introduction before Profile 2.0 players become the norm among Blu-ray players (and there's no solid guarantee of that time frame based on BD manufacturers' past record of accomplishments). Meanwhile, HD DVD player owners have been happily enjoying those "oh-so-advanced" features since the first player hit the shelves.

Unfinished, plain and simple.

yep, used hiding techniques, but is not malicious..

Are you having trouble understanding or something...

Yes, Profile 2.0 will most definitely succeed and replace Profile 1.1.

Sony's PS3 will offer a firmware upgrade that replaces Profile 1.1 with Profile 2.0. Other manufacturers such as Panasonic, Samsung, and Pioneer will also release only 2.0 players when the standard is ready later this year. They will not continue to make 1.1 players after 2.0 is complete.

The rootkit opened the door for other malicious software to latch onto and hide from Windows. There were examples of this.

In addition, the software reported back your listening habits, which is arguably an invasion of piracy.

That's like saying it's okay for someone to break into your house and hide in your closet, even if they don't take anything. I'm pretty sure you'd call the police if someone broke into your house, whether or not they caused problems, because there is the possibility of something bad happening.

Hiding your process from view is malicious.

Thanks.

It is ok for Sony to break into his house and hide in his closet, he's already said so.

As long as he doesn't steal any socks he's not doing anything wrong.

Honest.

Me, well that would be the last time he hid in a closet (or anywhere else for that matter).

Not to mention the fact that virus writers and other malicious apps found a way to connect to the rootkit to do more PC damage. Kind of forgot about that part I see.

Seems he was not around at that time :)

Steve, the Sony rootkit reported back on a user's listening habits/preferences, thereby creating an invasion of privacy. This is called spying; and as we all know, spying is bad, mmkay.

The rootkit interfered with the way that Windows operated, so that it could spy on the user. Again...spying is bad, mmkay.

In most cases, the rootkit's process could not be terminated by standard means. This allowed other pieces of spyware to attach themselves to users machines. This too is bad, mmkay.

To claim that it didn't do anything bad to your system is ridiculous. If it was so benign, why did it take extraordinary measures for someone infected with it, to get rid of it? Why did its existence cause people to file lawsuits against Sony?

Are you a DJ, Steve? That's one hell of a job spinning you're doing.

There are no profile 1.0 discs with PIP. That requires multiple encoders (or in the case of television, tuners) to accomplish.

There are profile 1.0 discs that have the same movie encoded twice, one copy that's just the movie, and another with the commentary hard encoded on top of the film.

"Profile 2.0 will not superceed Profile 1.1" Bullsh!t. There may be a 'transition period' similar to manufacturers releasing profile 1.0 players after Nov. 1st, but that's it. Profile 2.0 is definitely meant to replace profile 1.1 as the standard.

"In addition, the software reported back your listening habits, which is arguably an invasion of piracy."

Sorry, this is untrue, please provide links that prove this...

CDs’ Embedded Content Protection Software Posed Security Risks, Limited CD Use, and Monitored Users’ Listening Habits on their Computers, Without Consumer Consent

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2007/01/sony.shtm

I know it may be a stretch, but it would probably be a good idea to perform a quick search next time to see if a comment may be true before stating that it is not.

I suppose you'll suggest that the FTC is biased against Sony? Perhaps they are, but they probably have sufficient reason to be by now.

the main point of old blu ray players is that they dont have the hardware to support the new specs in profile 2 the players dont have a second video decoder so pip is not exactly what you getting. you can stop the movie and go to that content than be put back into the scene where you left off. and the old players dont have ethernet ports so no internet activity. but dont worry sony a business and they already know of this fiasco and made a clever remark in the article from this site when they interviewed them at ces they are going to put stickers on movies to say profile 1 or 2 i am one to say good marketing move because early adopters who want features need to buy new players and the ones who dont wont be left out because that they main focus of getting hd dvd out of the picture because they know if they had a competitor and they implement this strategy many people will be piss so if they dont have hd dvd to fall back on there will be no choice than to take the blu pill yea a matrix reference my vote for being the best hi def release so far

Any rootkit can be used by any virus writer to hide code.

*ANY* rootkit.

Rootkits=bad. They exist to hide files form the operating system, dimwit.

Gawd, are you really that stupid?

WGA ring any bells? I suggest you actually be informed about the rootkit, it was vastly blown out of all proportion by rabid journlelists (like Nate Mook)...

Who said anything about Microsoft or WGA? God, you brain dead Sony fanatics piss me off sometimes. You said none of the above mentioned was true. Then when questioned about it, you go off on a tangent and completely avoid answering what was asked. You must be working for Sony or something, because you pull the same idiotic tricks, shifting the conversation to something else.

There's a typical Sony retard's conversation with someone on here.

Random poster: Sony did this. Sony did that.
Sony tard: No they didn't. It never happened. By they way, Microsoft did this, Microsoft did that.
Random poster: Everyone knows Sony did this and that. Here's proof. Now what do you have to say?
Sony tard: Microsoft sucks. Sony's product is a great value for the money.
Random poster: What's that got to do with anything?
Sony tard: Microsoft did this. Microsoft did that. Did I mention Microsoft sucks?

You think the Sony rootkit fiasco was "vastly blown out of all proportion" ? Oh really? That's the reason Sony got slapped by MULTIPLE class action lawsuits in MULTIPLE states, LOST those lawsuits and had to pay MILLIONS of dollars to settle. Typical Sony attitude. First, ignore the problem and hope nobody notices the BS you pulled. Second, if someone notices it, downplay it and hope it goes away. Third, deny, deny, deny. Then finally, lose YET ANOTHER MAJOR LAWSUIT and pay up. Then, even though you were found GUILTY, still pretend you did nothing wrong. I bet if you took one of those arrogant Sony execs and skinned him alive, he STILL wouldn't admit any wrongdoing.

The rootkit issue was most definitely not blown out of proportion. I happen to own one of those infected CDs. It auto-runs the crap on your computer as soon as you insert the disc (luckily I have autorun disabled) and then it asks you if you want to install it. No matter what you choose, it gets installed. Even if you don't agree to the EULA, it STILL installs the rootkit on your computer.

Oh and that's not even getting started on the exploding battery fiasco. Sony is such a wonderful company, isn't it?

"Lets also get some perspective. 20,000 harmless (but arguably dishonest) $15 Audio CD's, or 10 million knowingly faulty $400 Xbox 360s..."

More retarded Sony logic. It's hard not to get a headache just reading these. First, there were a LOT more than 20,000 "harmless" *cough* audio CDs. Second, what does the Xbox have to do with Sony or their "dishonest" audio CDs?

You're implying that it's okay for Sony to secretly and KNOWINGLY install a rootkit on your computer, even if you DECLINE their EULA, because a bunch of Xbox's happen to be faulty? Do you even stop to think before you make a post? You're not only comparing oranges, but you're also saying that Sony is the lesser of two evils and that makes it okay.

"10 million knowingly faulty $400 Xbox 360s"

That's another issue you Sony fanboys have. Always talking in enormous numbers, not even remotely close to the real number. You guys do it when talking about Xboxs that failed, and when talking about how many PS3s were sold. You always add several million to make it look bigger. And to say that Microsoft KNOWINGLY sold faulty Xbox, that's just outright absurd. That would make absolutely no sense, because they would have to pay for it in the end. Let's not forget that Microsoft WILLINGLY extended the Xbox360's warranty for everyone. Something Sony would NEVER do, unless ordered by a COURT after losing yet another CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT.

"Gawd, are you really that stupid?"

I assume that was a rhetorical question, because we ALL know the answer already.

*applauds*

http://www.petitiononlin.../HDVDeath/petition.html

To: DVD Forum, Movie Studios, CEMA, and related companies

After months of the HD DVD group trying to save their doomed format, With the loss of Warner, New Line and HBO, After Paramount's defection to HD DVD, after fire sale pricing during the busiest shopping season of the year, HD DVD has not won over consumers or the Consumer Electronics community. It is time to accept defeat and do the right thing for consumers.

To Paramount: Please exercise your exit options from your agreement with the HD DVD Group and begin producing Blu-Ray discs again.
To Universal: Please begin to produce Blu-Ray discs so that the fans of your movies can enjoy them in the format of their choice.
To Both of the above: Please make clear your intentions to do so as soon as possible, to end the confusion and fence sitting among consumers.
To Toshiba: Please do as you've said you intended to and do what is right for consumers: Please take HD DVD off life support and let the HD packaged media community and market heal and grow. Please let HD DVD Die.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned

By continually deleting this post nate, you are admiting to yourself, that it's over...

It's called removing SPAM from the site.

The next step is likely "BANNED".

I know I'd laugh...

Nate: Please add Benjamin Linus's subnet to hosts.deny.

Thanks,
-Fewt

ZOMFGLOL:

To: Warner Brothers, Universal Studios, Paramount Pictures

Dear High Def movie fans, I'm starting this petition in order to support HD-DVD and hopefully save it, and to show Warner Brothers that the consumer has not "clearly" chosen Blu-Ray. Warner Brothers switched to Blu-Ray exclusive claiming that its the best thing for the consumer, but how about all the consumers that bought HD-DVD movies and hardware for the holidays, or all the loyal HD-DVD fans like myself that own Warner HD-DVDs? Warner just screwed them all.

HD-DVD is more alive than ever, with cheaper hardware prices, and better technological capabilities, both of which are better for the consumer. I guess Warner feel higher prices and less features are better. The only thing Blu-Ray has going for it is 20GB of extra storage space, and a big name like Sony backing it up. HD-DVD on the other hand has PIP, web-enabled features, in movie menus, and much more. And if extra space is needed, use another disc, big deal.

So please, sign this petition, and lets get as many votes as we can so we can hopefully change Warner's mind to return to being format neutral, or go HD-DVD exclusive. This would also show the remaining HD-DVD exclusive studios, Universal & Paramount, that HD-DVD still has supporters, thus they shouldn't switch to Blu-Ray. We have a chance to save a superior format from collapsing under the weight of the greedy Sony corporation and its inferior Blu-Ray format, let's do it!

Sincerely,

The Undersigned

15352 Total Signatures

and over 200 more since I signed it 30 minutes ago.

So much for your silly little anti-HD petition.

Sorry.

http://www.petitiononlin...m/SAVEHDD/petition.html

Only if we are lucky. His rabid fans over at bloray.com cry ban him ban him if any one even says one thing bad about Sony or Blo Ray.

HD DVD players, I think I remember them, wern't they like Laserdisc players and Betamax...

http://www.petitiononlin.../HDVDeath/petition.html

HD DVD players, I think I remember them, wern't they like Laserdisc players and Betamax...

"weren't"

mMmm....proofreading. It does wonders, especially for the cut&paste addicts.

HD DVD players, I think I remember them, wern't they like Laserdisc players and Betamax...

Ya know, you're a lot more amusing when you log in as Steve...

no no, Blu-Ray is a Sony product like Betamax.

Hope that clears things up for you.

Thanks.

nate, you're an idiot. perhaps the only HD DUD supporter left....

I recon both Nate and Ken will be looking for new jobs soon...

Call the staff an idiot and then "recon" they'll do something.

Pure comic genius.

BTW: It's "reckon", ya Hillbilly.

Really? You mean betanews is gonna go off the net?

Doubt that.

I hope Universal is not another jackal.
Here is what I found about AOL/Warner at www.hometheatermag.com/news/012208didfox/ :

"...Warner actually wanted to go HD DVD. They gave Toshiba the chance to bring another studio into the HD DVD camp before they turned Blu. Fox was lined up, and told the HD DVD camp it was going to switch to HD DVD, which would've also turned Warner exclusively HD DVD. At the last possible minute, it nixed the deal... It's also been reported in various places that Fox got $120 million in promo cash from Sony, and Warner somewhere between $400-500 million..."

At the moment studios don't care about which format is technically better. They like the idea that Sony and Toshiba are throwing money at them. I think that kind of cash would do more good if it was donated to UNDP.

What HD-DVD absolutly needs to do to have any shot of pulling this off is to release their movies SOLELY on the combo-disk format, and at prices comparable to regular DVD. This will force people to buy HD-DVD disks without the risk of the disc becoming useless as it will work in any standard DVD player. Then when people have a few of these , they may pick up a cheap HD-DVD player just to see what the HD side of the disk is all about.

This should have been their plan from the beginning. It maybe too little too late, but then again, how people expected the NY Giants to be in the Super Bowl?

We'll I'll say that the combo disks are the reason I don't feel bad about buying HD-DVD.

This is exactly what they need to do. Start replacing standard DVDs with combo discs for the same price. Consumers will start buying them instead of the DVDs. The DVD Forum can easily push HD DVD as the upgrade path in this manner.

Will it happen? We've asked, and should have an answer soon.

definately can't wait to hear back on this one

That is actually an excellent idea.

What a way to show Sony how launching a trojan horse should have been done. :)

Not a bad Idea... But would'a should'a could'a... too little too late.

An EXCELLENT idea. How many people have more than one DVD player in the house these days?
I doubt those people would be purchasing HD players for each room to replace DVD just yet - maybe just the living room.
This idea just futureproofs things on a whole new level

Also if they sold just the combo disc you can get passed Blockbusters Blu only policy since they will still have to stock the DVD.

Awesome, awesome to the max *raises arm*

I think it is the best idea I have heard yet. If I was Universal and Paramount I would start right now!! and advertise it like crazy!!

Wait till two-thirds of these buyers realise their 'new' players won't be upgradeable to blue-ray profile 2.0, then you'll find another slanted 2 week sales comparison from a retail outlet. 93% sounds like a lot when you're actually talking about a couple hundred players.

Not to mention those numbers don't include online outlets like Amazon.

anyway of finding out how many players amazon has sold??? considering how well the a3 seems to be doing would be curious to know

Blu PLAYERS = 93% of sales???

http://www.engadget.com/...t-after-warner-went-blu/

This is from NPD, which takes a small sample from retail outlets. We're talking about a couple hundred players here. This does not include online sales including Amazon, where the Toshiba A3 is the 14th top seller in all of electronics:

http://www.amazon.com/gp...ronics/ref=pd_dp_ts_e_1

Blu-ray players aren't even in the top 100 at Amazon. Until there are firm sales numbers released by Blu-ray or HD DVD, all of these estimations must be taken with a grain of salt.

"Until there are firm sales numbers released by Blu-ray or HD DVD, all of these estimations must be taken with a grain of salt."

And you think Blu-Ray or HDDVD numbers are more accurate?

I would much rather go with third party #'s.

Third party numbers are estimations based on a sample. That's like saying comScore knows better how much web traffic Facebook gets than Facebook itself. That's just ridiculous.

All hardware manufacturers are public companies that aren't going to lie about how many units they've sold. It's always better to rely on a first party source. Look what happened with the iPhone numbers -- analysts estimations were all way off.

No of course they won't directly LIE or make up numbers... BUT, spinning numbers are their specialty (both camps).

According to Amazon now it is number 10!

It's not "a couple hundred players," it's over 21,000 BD players and about 1,700 HD DVD players. And again, only HD DVD fanboys have ever questioned NPD numbers.

If they are missing a large peice of the pie do you wonder why?
If you REALLY cared to inflate your blu-ray numbers you would too, but of course you dont care because the numbers are already larger.

HD DVD is here for a while, get used to it. Your over-priced Blue Ray players that'll be obsolete in a little while (when the newer 2.0 versions are released) would only go up in price if it wasn't for the HD DVD competition keeping prices down. Grow up. There's a million of us out there and many more low price HD DVD players being snapped up...it all depends on sales figures and I can safely say I'll be investing in my awesome new system with as many movies as I can buy...

Talk about biased...

...talk about "duh?"...

Why is it people think an interview with an HD-DVD exclusive studio will be anything *but* biased?

Are you people high? Of course they're going to support the format they *Exclusively* support.

Durrr....

I don't think he was talking about Ken's comments, the interviewer threw "softball" questions at him and even made his arguments for him.

In other words they didnt ask the questions you would have.
Why not open your own media outlet?

"HD DVD seems to make the most sense: players are cheaper, combination discs are possible, which enables a smooth transition. Blu-ray players are still in flux and current models except the PS3 won't be upgradable to Profile 2.0. Blu-ray is pitching players that will be obsolete in a year, and discs that lack the interactivity found on HD DVD."

Nate Mook == Idiot...

HD DVD Players were only cheaper because Toshiba had to dump the price of them to try and get marketshare. They are not any cheaper to build than Blu-ray players are to build...

Steve Austin = Moron...

Build cost doesn't matter one whit. Customers couldn't care less how much it cost to build, you dweeb.

Durrr.....

Insulting the staff.. Again, Brilliant move, Einstein. Are you trying out for the "If not used" example for a contraception ad, or does it just come naturally?

Can you prove your theory of the costs? I thought not. You talk out your a** on a daily basis and we are used to it which is sad.

It is these last few companies grasping the last strands of a dead format which is slowing the development of a high def market, give it up, blu ray has won, let us enjoy it before we miss the boat and something new comes along.

"let us enjoy it before we miss the boat and something new comes along."

Yea, god forbid something new and better comes out...

So not buying an HDDVD player until they come out with an HD DVD player and burner in one unit for cheap. That way, even if the format dies, I can still burn movies for my HD library and play them. Same goes for BD although BD is really gonna have to slash prices a lot more to be competitive.

Until then, I'm sticking with my upconverter.

Sorry, but HD DVD is not the only format that can do combo discs.
There was a Blu-ray hybrid on display at IFA 2005, with Blu-ray and DVD on the same side of the disc. That's a much better solution than a flipper, which most people despise. JVC demonstrated the disc working on a Blu-ray prototype player (it was 2005) and a JVC DVD player.
They could also market each Blu-ray with a DVD of the movie included inside separately. They can also allow for a DVD download to be included with every Blu-ray disc. There are several ways to do it.
The studios that release on Blu-ray have not pushed the BDA to have a hybrid disc available.
It's not rocket science.
The majority of the feedback shows that people have more trouble with combo discs than they are worth.
Universal are still touting the company line that they have agreed upon. The future is most definitely Blu though. Last year Universal were talking about releasing 100 titles, now they're touting the announcement of one day and date title.
HD DVD is dead.

That demo was just that: a demo. No current Blu-ray players and no current Blu-ray discs offer combination formats. Who cares that it's possible if it hasn't and never will reach consumers?

Yes, JVC demonstrated a hybrid disc prototype. However, the real reason for BDA dropping the idea has nothing to do with studios not pushing it. It was to do with business and costs. Do a search on the net and you'll find BDA insiders admitting that the BD/DVD hybrid is too difficult (and therefore too expensive) to manufacture, so they passed. Funny how Dobyblue neglected to mention that fact...

Exactly... and they claim TL51 is vaporware. It's closer to reality than those hybrid discs that will never see the light of day.

no sony probably has it planned for profile 5 or 6 so they can sell everyone new players again

Whether you can physically make a combo disc or not, the BDA and its constituent members aren't making them. Who cares if they showed a prototype three years ago if the format was never ratified? Especially since they were questioned about the possibility of combo discs at CES and said that they didn't want to "waste the space".

One behind the scenes development that seems to have been passed over by the news outlets is the MPEG LA added TL51 to it's call for patents on January 8th (so that implementors can obtain the necessary licenses in one fell swoop instead of negotiating deals with each individual company).

Just another step in finally bringing the format to market.

...and said that they didn't want to "waste the space"

Classically ironic, considering most of their titles include multi-channel uncompressed PCM.

That's great to hear. Thanks for the information.

This interview was totally biased toward HD DVD. I hate to say it, but all of this is spin!
Attach rates AGAIN! Claiming the PS3 isn't a movie player! AGAIN!
At least I am glad to know that Blu-ray has had 85% of the market last week, and still has 63% of the market overall (or more), and both players and movie sales are going up for Blu-ray. Attach rates mean nothing when the units being moved are much higher.

Genius:

The guy interviewed is part of the HD DVD exclusive studio list.

Did you *not* read the title, or do you just enjoy whining about the obvious?

That's like saying an interview with Gates is biased towards Microsoft.

Duh??

Hey Einstein,

I don't think he was talking about Ken Graffeo's answers.

"NM: After Warner essentially stabbed you in the back,..."

Yea that's not biased.

how is it biased??? he only stated a fact. warner stabbed the hd camp in the back plain and simple. if they had warned them it was coming first then it would have been different.

so how much you get for that. blu ray supporters throw numbers like they going to get a certificate for blu ray success. no one focus on technical aspects for blu ray defense because they know that when blu ray was first out releasing their movies on mpeg 2 sucked and they switch to vc1 like hd dvd and their features for the new 2.0 profile are identical to hd dvd if you dont own sony products like a psp um funny how all the new interactivity features are focus on sony products

Exactly

This interview was totally biased toward HD DVD

The interview was with The EVP of an HD-DVD exclusive studio.

Of course it's biased.

Don't be a moron. As I said, it's like claiming an interview with Microsoft is biased towards Microsoft.

Duh???

Learn to freaking read...

Warner did stab HD DVD in the back. It didn't tell them it was going Blu-ray and messed up their whole CES plan. HD DVD got screwed over, and even Warner will admit it.

But that's business, where stabbing people in the back is no big thing :)

Woah failure on a HUGE level.

Haha, what's funny is MPEG2 movies at 1080i on Blu-ray have been reviewed better than 1080p VC-1 movies on HD DVD. The codec doesn't matter, it's the sloppy way they made the transfer.

You want to argue technical specs? Blu-ray wins in every regard. If you can name one thing HD DVD does that Blu-ray can't you might have a point.

Or maybe where he said, "from a consumer stand point, HD DVD makes more sense." Yeah, that's not biased at all.

Yea come out with a finalized product

Yea come out with a finalized product. But i was wrong about the codecs usage i was referring to this link http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/7067.cfm and if i read more it states that sony will be using mpeg2 while the other studios can choose whatever

"Or maybe where he said, "from a consumer stand point, HD DVD makes more sense." Yeah, that's not biased at all."

You're right, it's not biased.

That is also fact.

"Haha, what's funny is MPEG2 movies at 1080i on Blu-ray have been reviewed better than 1080p VC-1 movies on HD DVD."

Oh... this I have to see. I'm breathless with anticipation.

Care to offer some examples (plural, right)?

Because I still love you!

http://gizmodo.com/34678...-war-and-hd-dvds-demise

Nate sounds like a right told HD DVD fan boy.

What a crappy interview.

The voice of Jerec vs. the voice of Reason. Round 1....

lmao..

Thank you *so* much for you incredibly useful input.

Really.

/sarcasm

"right told"....

lmao. What a peach.

Look at the troll everybody!

Another thing. HD DVD is the only format that can do Combo Disks. I know that the early adopters don't really care for it, but for the mass consumer market to transition to high def it's the best alternative. Maybe you should get that guy from the UPS commercials to draw an outline of how HD DVD is better than DVD. People understand pictures better than words most times. Have a flow chart showing the advantages of the format and stress that it is the only format to best transition to the next generation of DVD. Just a thought.

Dear Ken Graffeo,
I appreciate your commitment to a consumer friendly format like HD DVD. I just wished that all the studios involved with the HD DVD Group would have chosen just one movie from each perspective studio and released it only on a "Combo Disk". Specifically your highest grossing movie of '07. I know the cost of such an endeavor would have been costly, but you would have put a large amount of software in consumers hands. Then you could have marketed your movies as "DVD is great, but HD DVD is much better. For example high def Video, high def Audio and Interactivity never before seen before, all you need to do is flip the disk but to see those differences you need to buy an inexpensive HD DVD/DVD player". Price the movies the same as a regular dvd and have the promotional group incur some of the cost of producing the combo disk. I liked what Toshiba did with the price cuts during black Friday, but sadly didn't have the insight to continue the sales through the holidays. After the A2 I think toshiba should have strictly only come out with a 1080p player. In consumers eyes they see Blu Ray as mistakenly superior. It's all about perception. I think that where Blu Ray has been much better than the HD DVD is in it's marketing strategy. You guys have really done a bad job with that. I think you should have gotten the guys that market Apple. They usually have really clever commercials. Damn shame. Hopefully the remaining studios ramp up a lot more releases and release your Holy Grail of cataloge movies like Gladiator, Braveheart, The Godfather trilogy and SO many of all your great movies. Even Warner Bros. released the Matrix trilogy, you guys have to do a better job with that. A big supporter, thanks for listening.

Because I love you...

http://gizmodo.com/34729...itles-spotted-in-amazon

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but that is hardly a sign of Paramounts defection. Quite simply, they're releasing a few films in the European market (as is evidenced by the region coding).

This isn't anything new, really, when you consider that there are plenty of US Blu exclusives, available on HD DVD overseas (T2, RE, Underworld, Fantastic Four, Silent Hill, Bridge to Terabithia...). Check out xploitedcinema.com for a complete listing.

Therein lies the difference though...HD DVD isn't currently region coded, so they can be used worldwide (as opposed to the Paramount movies you listed). It's great...even though I own a BR player (via the PS3), I don't have to buy some of the movies that I want on that format. Maybe when they have a finalized profile in place...

EDIT: If you would have scrolled down to the comments in your link, you'd have realized that the movies listed, were released in BR before the switch to HD DVD exclusive. Nice try though...

Yeah nothing new about that. I am suprised about the serious lack of investigating by gizmodo...

Nate you're a retard, the PS3 will support profile 2.0.... Do you have any clue what the hell you're talking about? Obviously you don't by making such ridiculous statements such as PS3 wont support profile 2.0 etc.

Also and I hope KG sees this because he's a moron as well, Nielson and the NPD did research and more than 70% of ps3 owners buy BLU RAY MOVIES obviously your PR department is blowing smoke or else you're just too blind to realize that your company is supporting a dying format, it's dead in 2/3 of the world get with the program.

HD-DVD has always been a vastly superior format for movies. Warner Bros are retards for choosing to support an inferior high definition format. Every single Blu-Ray player ever released should have supported all of the features in Profile 2.0 from the start. All Blu-Ray players should have supported Dolby Digital Plus in addition to Dolby TrueHD from the start as well. There is no excuse for releasing a high definition movie with ONLY a Dolby Digital soundtrack. You're only getting half the high definition experience.

You should really stop making ridiculous statements like HD-DVD is a dying format. Eventually it will be the only high definition optical disc format for movies.

Though Nate is obviously bias towards HD DVD in his interview.... he stated: "current models except the PS3 won't be upgradable to Profile 2.0" This means that your beloved PS3 is OK for profile 2. Please do a google search on the word "except".

As for your second paragraph. I agree.

KG's comment about niche markets are quite ironic, as the lower priced HD-DVD units may end up being the niche market after all.

I agree.

Who knows... maybe it was Sony's way of not having to pay licensing fees to Dolby or DTS by offering uncompressed PCM and not making support for those formats mandatory.

In any case, it's ridiculous to turn a blind eye towards superior, more efficient encoding technology. The content on so many Blu-ray discs are quite simply a tremendous waste of space.

It's interesting to note that BluRay DVD's "ARE" HD DVD's. They are both DVD's and they are both High Definition.

Technical specs may be differant for the brands but that doesn't change the fact that BluRay DVD's are HD DVD's.

You make such an interesting point there...

that's no different that a mac being a PC. Macs are Personal Computer thus making them PC.

No, Blu-ray are no more DVDs than CDs are (and they both play video). It's Blu-ray DISCS, not DVDs (or HD DVDs).

So that must mean VHS is a DVD too.

For those interested in doing their part to try to get to the bottom of Warner's backstabbing last-minute decision:

How to complain to competition and consumer protection watchdogs regarding Warner's actions:

http://www.campaignhd.com/WATCHDOG.html

While an interesting read, it smells too much like the stuff I see from the blu camp.
Pass

I agree Setian^Stalker, it's stinks of Blu Ray fanboy mentality.

If it was my own money, I would have done the same thing Warner did.

boo hoo

Wish i had a fraction of that money!! :)

Very funny, as most people accept that Paramount took 150mil to go Red, but it's very unlikely that Warner took anything to go Blu

This petition will explode in HD DVD fanbots faces, as it will prove there was no payoff, but bring Paramount/Microsofts dodgy dealings to light.

I just want HD movies with cool interactive features on some g** d*** format. I am format neutral as you all know but prefer HD-DVD.

Once I see a real BD player on my projector / screen combo instead of a video game system, I may change my mind but i will never become an obsessed fanboy like one of our whipping boys in here.

I'm glad to see HD-DVD wont just give up. I hope the two remaining exclusives stay on board for two more years just to spite the BDA.

Way to go Universal!

Give those game console little b@stards nothing.
It's not like they're really into movies anyways.

If Blu-ray do actually win this battle they just ensure HDMs on disc stay a niche product, so to hell with them.

Only HD DVD can combo/Twin disc with DVD to ensire a smooth transition between existing SD DVD & high def.

It's good to see you back as well. :)

85:15 means nothing. It was just a bad week and the week that Warner went Blu which won't last too long. They should be coming back to HD DVD in around Q4 2008.

It's nice to see Universal & Paramount/DreamWorks full out HD DVD Exclusive.

Now its time for 2 more BD only studios to jump ship and join HD DVD in between Q2 to Q3 2008.

What makes you think warner will go back to hd-dvd?

Microsoft paying them $$$$ to.

Fair enough then. I doubt microsoft would be the ones paying money though...

I describe where the DVD future may be going in my article "Skating to where the DVD player will go" which you can find here:

http://www.mathoda.com/archives/168

I think there is no need for spin.

"Ken Graffeo: Where the consumer has a say is what they do and what they purchase. That's probably the biggest statement that could be made."

He's right. And it looks like consumers are overwhelmingly saying they prefer to Do Blu over Hddvd. Some 85% to 15% Blu.
http://www.engadgethd.co...for-week-ending-january/

He also stated that the consumers need to be better informed... which means they don't know any better (in much the same way that some people do not seem to know how to properly reply to someone). *poke poke* :)

Looks like I spoke too soon

We'll just ignore the whole sd-dvd part for your sake shall we?

They are not better informed because HDDVD doesn't advertise for some reason.

That's one thing that I think really hurt HDDVD. Within the last few months, the Blu-Ray commercials have outnumbered the HDDVD ads. As a matter of fact, I don't recall seeing an HDDVD commercial in a while.

Actually I wasnt going to leave a comment but you lead me to it with your comment.

sd-dvd?

Yes sd-dvd. I use that term to avoid confusion amongst people who selectively read only part of a article.
“Consumers right now are buying upconverting players -- they are outselling the next-gen players combined by 10 to 1 every month”

That’s a HUGE ever expanding market, and it continues to do so. Evidentially they are quite happy doing so.
So no they are not overwhelmingly choosing blu-ray, thats a VERY narrow view

Never seen one hd-dvd commercial OR blu-ray commercial myself :)

No TV though, only use internet media.

Speaking of selective reading... The Answer I quoted dealt with NEXT GEN customers. Not sd-dvd. Sooo yea, in the next gen race, consumers are choosing Blu.

"...ever expanding market".
A very strong market? No doubt!
Ever expanding... I wouldn't go that far.

Of course sd-dvd's and upconverting players are gonna blow next gen sales out of the water. No question! BUT, there is a decline in sd-dvd movie sales even with these 10-1 ratios.

"So no they are not overwhelmingly choosing blu-ray, thats a VERY narrow view"

again

It’s easy to say blu-ray is killing hd-dvd when you only look directly at it like that. The fact is there’s more to it than that and nothing will change that any time soon. Consumers have not chosen ANY HD physical media as of yet. To think otherwise is well… ignorant and outright blind faith for either format. Weither you like it or not DVD is here to stay and will continue to hold people off these expensive next-gen formats.

Do you think those declining sales in sd-dvd have anything to do with a tiny niche market full of enthusiastic supporters?

Blu-ray wins when HD-dvd has no more exclusive support. It does NOT win when blu-ray say so – we are all quite sick of sony declaring hd-dvds death over and over and yet its still here.

85 to 15 is about right for a 8-2 studio lead.

I don't see the news in your comment, just a bunch of FUD.

They choose Blo and when they realize in the next year the new disks don't work what will happen to these sales?
Plumet.. that is if the format is still around. Even Blo manufacturers are saying that the next gen is no longer BLo or HD its On Demand. I am happy with my HD from Toshiba as it up converts nicely. You can keep your Blo I look forward to seeing it on the shelves with Sony's other inventions ie. Minidisk, Laserdisk

This is the way one other Forum member put it.

Sure initially lots of $499 and $399 PS3's were sold to the top of economic scale part of society, and sure maybe they each bought a few BluRay discs to test the new system, so initial sales were high.

But for the remainding 239 million people or so in USA, lower price HD-DVD is a better choice, at $149 maybe then they can save the rest to finally afford an HD TV to use it with.

Lower prices will always sell more, plain and simple, go back to economics class if you don't agree.

Free market competition is what we stand for. Let the masses decide, not the early adaptors!

Plus, HD-DVD is a cheaper disc to manufacture, so who cares if Warner doesn't sell it's movies on it, since when pornos finally become available from small independant manufactures that's when you'll see sales take off, like it did for the internet and vhs rentals.

It's not an 8-2 lead yet Einstein!

The only difference is that it's not just Sony and the BR-Group declaring victory this time.

I'll agree with you though... The end is not upon us yet.... But it is damn close.

I would agree with that... the HD DVD Promotion Group's marketing has been practically non-existent ever since the format's introduction, and that's a shame (for those who actually care about seeing the format succeed, which I admittedly always have).

Most all of the commercials I see for new releases will state "Now available on DVD and Blu-ray Disc", or simply "High-Def" (even though the image clearly shows a Blu-ray case next to a DVD case). I suppose it's their way of saying Blu-ray is High-Def (or vice versa). Clever.

I have to admit, Sony and the BDA have really stepped up their marketing of the PlayStation 3 and Blu-ray (and the PS3 as a Blu-ray player) in general since before the holiday season. Marketing is everything, clearly.

Sorry to correct you, but MCA developed Laserdisc (with Pioneer playing a part in the widely-accepted name of the format).

Are you just acting dumb or were you born that way? I can point anyone of you including dumba** Nate to articles stating that the PS3 would be 2.0 profile compliant. It's seriously amazing how easily you HD-DVD fanboys try and spin this crap, look I understand i'd be pissed off too if the format I was supporting was getting the s*** beat out of it week in and week out.

Sorry fanboy!
If it were actually 85%/15%, the format war would have already ended.

Nielsen's polling says ~65/35%
http://www.engadgethd.co...for-week-ending-october/

But who cares with real HD recorded content only being used in about ~14% of homes.
http://www.broadcastingc.../article/CA6495849.html

What the overall market is saying is that HD pre-recorded material simply isn't a compelling marketing proposition.

Also movies on Laserdisc were released for over 20 years. Sure it never had the market share of VHS but I wouldn't go so far as to call it a flop. It was only phased out when DVDs came along.

That is definately true. I don't believe I have ever seen an HD DVD commercial period. Their advertising has been deplorable.

Close enough.

Thanks.

Never mind the fact that I still view my Laserdisc collection from time to time. :)

Hey, doorknob...

That covers the PS3. What about the set-top players?

No luck?

That's not spin, that's fact.

Oh, and calling the staff of the site names? Brilliant move. How about for your next trick you get yourself banned.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You linked Neilsen's "polling" from October 14th, 2007! Seriously I've read some of your comments and I HAD a lot of respect for what you had to say.... Well there goes that.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oct. 2007... CLASSIC!

You haven't lived until you've seen T2 on LD. :p

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ah yes, the tell-tale signature of those who desperately wish to be taken seriously...but never will.

I don't have that one on Laserdisc. I believe the last two I purchased were Men In Black and Independence Day... and I think Con Air was in that bunch as well.

I still cling to the Star Wars and Godfather trilogies. :)

ID...

Don't have that one.

I'll have to hit eBay for that baby.

you are right blu ray have ads all the time because they need hd dvd to be out the picture hd dvd never said that and for some reason not going for blu ray throat because they focus on what the consumer wants and leave it to the consumer to decide and that not good marketing because consumers are suckers and that Sony logic and who can disagree with them. Blu Ray supporters gives fact to this statement

And this is coming from a person who says "Durrr....".

Whatever you say child.

When referring to you?

Of course.

I figure it's about the only thing you'd actually comprehend. :)

Where's Steve at? Did you forget the password? Let me give you a hint, it's Blu-Ray.

There is a disturbing lack of blu people trying to twist and spin statements in this thread

I noticed that as well. There's some here, but not as many as expected. I guess they figure that HD-DVD is truley dead and don't bother with these articles anymore--

--nope, that couldn't be it...

I would like to address the ridiculous notion of "digital delivery" a lot of people around here seem to harbor. While it's true we will see this in the future, I don't think it's in the near future. To think that we will suddenly skip the next generation HD format (HD-DVD/BD) and instantly jump to digital delivery is rather naive. The internet as a whole is already starting to get rather congested. The bandwidth capacity would have to go up exponentially for high definition video delivery to become a viable solution.

According to recent research, as much as 80% or more of the data transferred across the internet comes from P2P traffic. These are mostly people downloading 185 MB episodes of TV shows and highly compressed (sub 1GB) DVD rips of movies. Those are a far cry from _true_ HD videos that would be needed to replace physical media. We have big ISPs like Bell and Comcast (and others) actually throttling P2P traffic in order to save bandwidth and reduce congestion.

All this is not even taking into account the fact that a large portion of the world doesn't even have high speed internet access (or any access for that matter). I'm pretty sure physical media is here to stay, at least for another generation.

No one is saying what you attribute to them. No one is saying hard media will utterly and completely disappear.

Instead they are predicting the marginalization of the hard media... just as has happened with music CDs.

And you obviously missed the cable providers and telcos and others announce their plans at CES to enter into the online deliverables marketplace.

"No one is saying what you attribute to them. No one is saying hard media will utterly and completely disappear."

I've seen plenty of people on here saying that they're going to skip buying HD-DVD/BD entirely because online delivery is right around the corner. That's what I was talking about. It's coming, yes, but it's not around the corner by a long shot.

all they need to do is get 1080p TVs playing HDDVDs in a lot more stores and get the movies in an easily found place. Since they started coming out my local best buy had been showing bluray preview discs encoded in MPEG-2 with artifacts and all but no HDDVD display. The HDDVDs hidden on the back of the first row of movies and the bluray discs in plain view. Bluray got way more exposure than HDDVD for a longer time and it's dissapointing that they're not doing more to get in consumers faces. All i know is that all my HDDVDs are beautifully artifact free. A great movie watching experience and the best one available so far. bluray is such a joke and they had to resort to brainwashing to get people to buy. When anyone can easily put the two side by side and cearly see that HDDVD has the clear advantage.

"the future is in digital delivery, but will people give up their physical discs?"

Yes, whether we like it or not, the future is in digital delivery where supply chain management costs are reduced to the bare minimum for mass market commodity product.

But does that mean hard copy higher def product will disappear? I certainly hope not!

While I prefer the high def audio and video versions, I am realistic enough to fully understand the evolving business models and the evolving marketplace, and the mass market will definitely be dominated by the more highly compressed digital delivery model. But I fully expect that while the higher def hard copy market will persist, it will be in a niche role.

And to the degree that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray do not come up with a workable cooperative agreement and both substantially lower their costs, they are both simply hurting the category overall as they fight among themselves for an ever smaller piece of a increasingly smaller percentage market segment relative to the larger regular def and online market segments. But their 8 foot os shelf space in Best Buy sure will be spectacular(sic)!

Anyone who debates this change in business models, I suspect, has not stopped to look at the ready precedent nor considered the economics of the models.

But what I would like to see here is the cessation of making this pronouncement appear to be something that only Jobs has said! He is simply the latest, albeit highly visible, person to make what has been a fairly obvious observation in what is quickly becoming a ubiquitously 24/7 online connected marketplace.

What would really be news is to hear someone dispute this!

And I will go further. ANY business model that does not place that development center in their strategic planning will not only fail to capture sufficient marketshare, but they risk being rendered as inconsequential in the larger marketplace.

This is all 'information age' business model 101.

The ONLY thing surprising is he amount of clueless debate disputing this!

"And to the degree that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray do not come up with a workable cooperative agreement and both substantially lower their costs"

What the hell are you talking about? Cheapest HD-DVD player - $99. Cheapest BD player (the PS3) - $399. Unless you were referring to the cost of manufacturing the media, then HD-DVD still wins by a long shot. Last I heard, a BD disc cost around four times more to manufacture than HD-DVDs.

I believe the Sony BDP-S300 can be found for less than the PlayStation 3 in a few places (approximately $270-$280)... but even at that price, it's far too expensive for all the features that it lacks.

Yup, tell me about your various Blu_Ray players!!!

You don't have a clue do you?

Are any of your wonderful BluRay players except for the PS3 profile 2 compliant? Heck, except for the PS3 NONE of them are upgradeable! Oh, you mean we should have quality audio and network attached capability that provides substantial operability? Ooops!

But obviously you did not read the CES article where Sony blamed HD-DVD for their premature release of not quite ready players because HD-DVD had already released theirs! The nerve of those dastardly HD-DVD folks! ROFLMAO.

So the profile 2 machines aren't even scheduled until an October release. But Sony also said "early adopters expect this" obsolescent. Yup! It must have been one of the marketing points!

You guys sound like the DVD-A and SACD folks who b!tched and moaned over who was best as the total high def market segment remained marginalized.

The mass public has voted with their pocketbook that having $59 Toshiba 1080p upscaleable DVD players and commodity media is sufficient to leave the HD hard copy market as a small niche.

The fanboys talk like its taking over, when the fact is that it is but a small divided niche, and its not growing substantially compared to the commodity video market.

It is absurd for EITHER format to claim victory, when all they have to celebrate is a combined single digit market share. And that includes what you fantasize as a superior format in HD-DVD. Aside from their compatibility with traditional tooling, you obviously can't read spec sheets.

But as an HD-DVD fanboy, it must hurt to have so many in the industry opting for BR while the overall HD hardware market remains but a niche - one to become further so with the advent of online access.

They are both niche markets, and will be for the foreseeable future.

This was a great read.... I little unrealistic, but a good read non the less.

I'm curious to know what you find to be unrealistic in that interview.

Well, there were a couple of things that I found to be a little unrealistic.

ON THE ROLE OF THE PS3...
"KG: I'll go back to what we've said over and over: the set-top player is the primary movie device. "
I think underestimating the PS3 and overestimating the consumers desire for a set-top only device is/was a big mistake. It is apparent that the PS3 WAS the main reason that Blu was able to succeed. His reasoning of people not wanting to go to the Game section of best buy for a movie was pretty weak.

ON CHANGES IN THE HDDVD PROMOTIONAL GROUP POST WARNER
"Ken Graffeo: Well, we heard about the whole move when everyone else did -- when a lot of us were on planes flying to CES in Las Vegas. To be very honest with you, we have not addressed that yet -- Warner is still releasing HD DVD titles up until May. Warner has always been in two formats, and prior to Paramount's switch, they had been in two formats, so now that Warner is exclusive... we just haven't addressed it yet."

REALLY??? You haven't addressed it yet? This is a HUGE blow to your strategy and it hasn't been addressed yet? Yes you have until the end of May, but Warner has already announced that there will be a 3 week delay on new HDDVDs vs Blu-Ray. The effects are already apparent with last weeks 85%-15% sales charts. What are you waiting for?

Again, this was a great read but interviews like this have to be taken with a grain of salt. Much like actors being interviewed for a crappy upcoming movie. They know it sucks but they have to keep pushing it while its still out there.

"Again, this was a great read but interviews like this have to be taken with a grain of salt. Much like actors being interviewed for a crappy upcoming movie. They know it sucks but they have to keep pushing it while its still out there."

Fair enough... LOL

I'm firmly in the HD DVD camp so this interview made me very happy!

I still fail to understand why in the hell studios are going to Blu-Ray if they are going to be castrating their early adopters with the new 2.0 spec! It's ridiculous. HD DVD has had those since the beginning, and nobody is getting screwed.

Never mind the fact that BD having 3 different "profiles" is confusing, what about the fact that the cheapest BD player is $399. How is this a good thing? Then if that wasn't confusing enough, this "BD player" is a game machine, not a set top player like everyone is used to. As far as I'm concerned, BD winning this war would be one step forward and several steps backward. Most people looking for a HD solution don't want some crappy gaming console to play their movies on. They don't want to pay extra for a game playing feature they don't really want or need.

Sony and the other BD retards are simply trying to muscle out the competition by lame tricks, bribes and flat out lying. All this just in order to eliminate a better, cheaper product and thus eliminate competition when it comes to price too. Let's say HD-DVD completely disappeared by tomorrow and only BD was left. How long do you suppose BD players would take to hit the sweet spot of $99 and below? Before you answer, consider this: the PS3 is the cheapest current BD player and has been out for over a year, yet Sony is still losing enormous amounts of money on it. Then also consider this: Sony is heavily involved in BD and when was the last time you saw any product by Sony priced competitively? If I had to guess, I'd say it would take another 5+ years for any set top BD player to get to $99 or below. But since Sony is involved, it might never get that low.

So yeah, like it or not, HD-DVD is here to stay. They got a better product. It's better because it has ALL the features (and more) of BD, (and had it since day one) it's less confusing, and it costs less. The only thing BD has going for them is more space, nothing else. In the end, price will be the deciding factor, not some lame studio getting paid millions to help screw the competition. Sony and their retarded fans can burn in hell.

Its about business because they going to make profile 1.0 movies and profile 2.0 movies and they going to have a sticker to indicate which ones are profile 1 or 2. It like double dip movies who wants the features get this movie and this player and those who dont get this movie and this player. It a possibility don't take my word for it maybe i just gave them a good marketing scheme damn me and my entrepreneurial views

What are you blabbering about? BD2.0 movies will play in a BD1.0 or 2.0 player. BD 1.1 movies will play in BD 1.0 and 2.0 players. It's a lie to suggest these discs are incompatible. It is a proven fact that BD1.1 films play in BD 1.0 players. The menu changes in older players, but the movie is still there and special features are still there, they're just not PiP.

good news to hear i'll be glad to continue buying hd-dvd as long as somebody is still making them. here's a ? i would like to see answered, what hasn't universal started releasing some of there really big catalog titles??

You people are lemmings... HD vs Blu, it's simply a matter of Whats available to watch on either.. as far as that goes, 3 total studios vs the rest.... I'm not saying that 3 studios are going to save HD or not, but I really doubt it... HD has a choice... Become a Computer based media, or dissapear. When people see 85% of all NEW movie releases only on BD then the choice is no longer a choice it's a need if they want the movie. Sorry people if you were trying to sell tires you'd sell more tires to people in cars than people on horses. HD=People on horses.

"HD=People on horses."

BD must be a car with only 3 tires then...

Even if it only has 3 tires, if I'm selling tires I know they will need 1 more...

The reality is that it does not matter which is better or has more features on the disk etc... What matters is, which one will you be able to get the movie you want on? and the answer to that at this moment will be BD. Unless you will only want a movie from one of the 3 studios in the HD camp, then you have won if you already own the HD format machine.

While I generally agree with that philosophy, there's another factor keeping me firmly on the HD DVD bandwagon.

Due to the lack of region coding on all HD DVD players and discs, many supposedly "exclusive" Blu-ray titles are also available on HD DVD in other regions besides the U.S.

Oh, and they are considered visually and aurally to be better transfers than their BD counterparts.

As has been stated and proven several times already, price is a huge determining factor with consumers. While HD DVD titles are consistently being outsold by Blu-ray titles, HD DVD standalone players consistently outsell Blu-ray players by a far greater margin.

85% on Blu, 15% on HD, and 100% on SD-DVD. So if people can't get a movie on HD they can still buy the SD version and most people will since they won't drop $400+ on a blu player.

So your argument in support of HD DVD is you can get any movie on DVD. That doesn't make sense. Why move to high-def if most of the movie you want aren't in high-def? Why spend $300 on an HD DVD player for 15% of the new movies?

You can state it as much as you want, but it's too bad it's a lie. Most BD movies aren't region coded. HD DVD titles are available on Blu-ray overseas. And the cherry on top: Contantin Films, the studio putting out most of those Blu-ray exclusive films in Europe on HD DVD, has join BD exclusive now.

He's saying your only choices are Blu and HD. I think more people would buy SD over Blu because of the price of the player and just upconvert. Which you can get an HD player specifically the HD-A3 for $125 on amazon right now. Most people will buy the HD player because it's cheaper and upconvert their movies and wait for a cheaper Blu player to come out if one ever does.

How anyone can equate SD/upconvert to true High Def is just painting over rust. I have spent money on a HD-TV for a reason, watching an upconverted DVD is not why. Prices on BD players will come down, and then and only then will these HD format lemmings realize that They have no other arguments. And Having Both players in my house as I do now, I must tell you that the BD picture is Cleaner than the HD picture. But I'll get arguements on this as well.

I do not believe anyone is equating them to each other. They are simply being satisfied with the relatively low cost of the "close enough to HD" qualities of upconverted DVD (of which many people have quite a collection, including myself).

HD DVD or Blu-ray over DVD... vast improvement.

HD DVD or Blu-ray over DVD upconverted to 720p or 1080i/p... marginal improvement.