RSSIs America's Army a Recruiting Tool?
By Ed Oswald | Published May 20, 2005, 9:54 PM
(continued from previous page)
BN: The game is developed using taxpayer money. Why are gamers not paying for it so taxpayers get a return on investment? Many other games in the genre cost $30 to $40. Why is the U.S. Army giving it away for free?
Maj. Wilson: It really sounds like these people aren't aware that there are other ways the Army spends money informing folks. For example, there's the goarmy.com Web site. That's a tool. There's arena football, NASCAR, and the Go Army commercials. The Army still has its authority and responsibility to take it's message to the public to inform young Americans of the benefits of service in the U.S. Army. This is just one of the ways they do that.
BN: My feeling is that one of the reasons people were concerned is that it's like some form of government propaganda.
Maj. Wilson: So the issue is people are leery of the government doing this? Well, let's just look at the alternative of not building an ample volunteer force. The draft, and that's not an option.
BN: Do you think the Army has an inherent advantage over developers of other "Army" games?
Maj. Wilson: Rather than learning vicariously through photographs what its really like to model, say an obstacle course, we sent our developers down to Fort Benning, Georgia, we threw them in BDUs and let them crawl through mud. And I think that makes a difference in what you see in the game. It's not enough to look at photographs or talk to somebody who's been in the Army. It's also about access. Everything you see in the game has been rigorously reviewed by subject matter experts.
For example, the medical training within the game. That was reviewed by the folks that manage medical training. What you see in the basic marksmanship course was vetted by the infantry school. I think it makes all the difference in the world. I mean, if you want somebody to build you a house, do you want somebody who read a few books on architecture, or do you want an architect.
BN: Now I think a major issue for most of our readers was a post within the America's Army forums -- apparently from one of the project managers -- that said, "We will find you, we will find your friends," in response to alleged cheating. A lot of people seemed to have taken issue with that particular post. Was that overboard, or what would really happen if somebody cheats in this game?
Maj. Wilson: Yes. That was not an official response on the part of that particular development team or the Army itself. In fact, we go to great lengths to ensure we maintain the privacy of all our users. As you know, it's hard to develop an RPG game without some information.
The information we collect is an ambiguous name and an e-mail address - we don't ban services like Hotmail, MSN or Gmail, etc. The rest of the data is just essential to the game itself like how many times you play a level, what's your favorite classes (in the game), the last time you played, important gameplay stats. We don't collect geographic locations or anything like that because frankly there's no value to it.
BN: But it was an actual response from a team member.
Maj. Wilson: Again, it wasn't an official response. It was wrong.
BN: Thanks for your time and helping to clear the air on the Army's position regarding the game.
Maj. Wilson: Thank you for the opportunity.
You guys are not very smart are you. You are saying video games are the cause of murders and violence and they are not. Video games, movies, TV, ect. are for entertainment, people like to be violent in video games because they cant be in real life. Hasn't anyone heard of the saying "guns dont kill people, people kill people" same goes for video games. If someone who is already insane plays a violent video game, then i think it might influence them some. But why would you take them away from all the normal people who just want to have fun
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|imlost586 you have a good point, if someone is crazy enough to kill someone they will do it even if they never have touched a video game
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|Guys, are you crazy?
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|How many of you had the pleasure of watching your family die on national television?
... I didn't think so.
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|It was created so all the hippies and rednecks on the internet could come together and have a big old fasioned flame war.
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|Maybe if they would have had this game three years ago, that Pat Tillman idiot wouldn't have gotten blown up by his own Army, who then promptly covered up his death with lies and fraudulent medals. It's funny to me how all these conservatives on here love to type on keyboards, but by god they'll never sign up and go fight. Nope, like Bush, they want someone else to fight for them.
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|Was Pat Tillman an idiot because he died for something he believed in? Was he an idiot because he saw inhumane conditions and want to better peoples' lives in another country? Was he an idiot because he gave up millions of dollars living in a country while 'less important' people defended his right to play American football? I wish the world had more 'idiots' like this guy.
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|So Tillman believed that getting murdered by his fellow soldiers was a worthy way to die? I thought the "cause" was to get Osama, but Osama is still free. Maybe this game should train little kids to communicate better so that they're not emptying their clips into the good guys. Tillman was just another idiot who didn't know what he was doing, thinking war was a game like his little football. He found out otherwise, thanks to the proud men and women in the U.S. Army who shot him dead.
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|You can't learn how to work as a team or how to aim a gun on a computer in the same way you would in real life. Taking away that realism just desensitises people when "shooting the bad guy". Training someone to obey orders and be physically fit isn't enough. They need to be mentally prepared for any horrors they may encounter. Although with proper conduct that should happen.
If someone has to resort to violence to get their way then they don't deserve to live on this planet. It's inhumane and an ignorant way of negotiation, dare I call it negotiation...
On the plus side! Maybe the future generations will grow up thinking it's "fun" to kill Afgans who have "weapons of mass destruction". Just so long as future warlike games are discriminatory,
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|I'm sure you're the first one to post similar thoughts about "Grand Theft Auto."
I'll give you that shooting people in a game may desensitize people, but then you go off the deep end with cheap shots against America.
Americans don't deserve to live on the planet? You may believe that the US rushed to war in Iraq, but are you really trying to say that the US should have negotiated with bin Laden, Al Qaeda, and the Taliban in Afghanistan?
You're such a troll. US military serve because they enjoy killing?
You're very naive to believe that all problems can be negotiated away.
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|Yes, spend tax dollars to train kids how to kill unattended.
This is a brilliant idea! I give it 5/5 beaver pellets.
Maj. Wilson should be shot, preferably by a kid with a sniper rifle doing the "Head Shot" thing on some random spree after he mixed up reality with another video game.
WTF, they don't respawn?
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|If the had the intelligence to search the middle east for the alleged mastermind of the 911 twin tower crashes and to invade a country for alleged "weapons of mass destruction" then maybe they'd be smart enough to think about what they're doing morally. Aside from trying to control the oil industry. ;-P
Believe it or not, here, my comments are seen as "the norm" and not "trolling".
It's a little concerning that violent games depicting killing are more acceptable than those with sex. But that's what happens when you give in to "greed" for money whilst trying to remain partly politically correct.
"If it's a cut throat world then don't bother wasting effort pulling out a knife, just aim and shoot." ~ politics + gaming = war
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|The ony thing about America and your backwards country is the media and how the love to tell stories. You really need to get your facts straight before you shoot off at the mouth. Just because someone decides to do something, does not mean that it is the whole country that is in agreement and that goes both ways. You only get to hear what you are allowed to hear. Your thinking is the "norm" for the ignorant and cowards who love to just point a finger and never get involved. What country are you from - it better not be America!
America has bent over backwards to many countries, ony to have those very same countries turn on her. People in America have been dying for other's causes since WWI and hasn't stopped yet to sending their children to serve again in similar fashion today. War, though tragic does cost lives. But those individuals that have stepped up to the plate to serve their country should be commended(patriots) and not belittled by your childish banter. Whether they agree or not. The actions of a few soldiers/officers is not the standard for most.
You need to look beyond your immature thinking and look at the larger picture. War serves a purpose and is political in nature. Before pointing your finger, look at your own.
Your comments are not appropriate for this forum, and Vets from every country should seek you out and give you what you deserve. It sickens me to respond at all. Don't put BinLaden and AlQuida in the same group as a soldier. They are terrorists and nothing more.
You are an idiot. Take your buddy and move to another planet. Keep hiding in places like these. We see many of your type criticizing America, never coming out of the shadows to be seen. Shut up Whiner! Your utopia lies at the bottom of the ocean. Several miles out!
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|Ahem. I'm from Australia, land of the refugees (apparently in the middle of nowhere, although that's subjective to the point of reference).
I doubt America would do anything for another country without it being in their own interest. History would agree with me.
As for the alleged "ignorant" remarks that I'm an idiot. Your entitled to an opinion of me despite your apparent ignorance.
War games just don't have enough focus on morality. However, games like SWAT4 do focus on the "peoples" safety. It encourages you to abide by the law and to handle situations to the best of your ability without killing "the suspect" so as to gain more points. Ie: pepper spraying and restraining them. But these kinds of activities should be left for the learned, not some children.
Jumping into a tank, running over some soldiers and blowing others up just isn't my cup of tea. Nor is it the right thing to do.
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|Take note that there is indeed a very big difference between reality, and a virtual simulation such as the America's Army game.
The objective isn't to kill any of the suspects/enemies, but rather in a sense "negotiate" with them to give up. Having thoughts to use weapons of mass destruction isn't just a beleif that some in the US have, but more on a global scale that everyone beleived (except for of course the people in which the weapons are with).
Having a .223 Caliber M4 pointed at ones head does have an impact as to what they do next. We give the people plenty of time to come to an agreement, give up, or stand their ground.
We aren't going to go off and kill people for fun, nor are we going to go and kill people for walking on the flowers. It's something that has to be done (period). Peace is only an option when it is in mutual agreement between both sides, in the case of the current war it has/was only stated/though of by us.
About the game being a virtual simulation as stated earlier, it may possibly inffluence the thoughts of the end-user (player), however bridging the huge gap between that virtual world, and the reality is much more complex. Everyone has a "soft spot" if you wish, people do indeed shoot, stab, and murder people in other ways for very odd, and possibly stupid ways. These people whom perform the actions do desierve to be punished.
Thats my thoughts.
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|Actually i liked this game, though theres are issues like having to play with high ping, since there werent any servers near.
Anyone believing that serving in the army is like a roadtrip isnt sane.
Anyone joining in army because of a game isnt sane either. I just hope kids, even though the game is rated not for kids, wont brainwash themself into thinking that (US) army is something that in reality it isnt.
I know that US coverment isnt financing the game just to entertain people, why would it?
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|I think its a shame that people who complain about the military never served time in duty with thee country, it builds teamwork , you make new friends, see new countrys. Everycountry has there problems but love your country. I served my time in the military and was in the Iraq war back in the 90's and learned alot. Some people back in the USA who hated the war for us saving women , children , and men from being tourtured from Saddam, these people in the US were wiping there assses on the american flagand tought there ideas that there americans. If they were americans they would support a the military men and women by sending a care package and say they support them. And most people do not want there chaos replaced by order. I have been half way around the world and seen many, the military has done wonders by getting schools , hospitals, homes , drinking water and such. I've seen other miltarys from other countrys doing the same. so you cant blame the military for being bad theve done great things and provided FREEDOM. thats one thing these hippie american haters who forget that it was the military that gives them freedom, remember WW1, remember WW2. I enjoy my freedom very much so. so should everyone else remember there FREEDOM and who got it for them. And most people who agree with me on this enjoy FREEDOM.
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|[sic] one thing these hippie american haters who forget that it was the military that gives them freedom.
Hmmm, so is that why your self-admitted cocaine-user buddy George Bush went AWOL and worked on political campaigns in Alabama rather than serving in Vietnam? And if this game is so great, how come all your pro-military freedom-hating (can you say "Abu Ghraib" or how about "Murdered Italian diplomats"?) buddies are filling the ranks to prevent the largest military recruitment shortages in American history? Is it the game or is it the people promoting the game with my hard-earned dollars? Stop being a political tool and admit that the game is just another taxpayer boondoggle by Washington republicans.
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|Apparently the military didn't teach you how to spell, or use proper grammar though, did it...? ^_^
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|You're a tool.
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|Oh no...not another Democrat anti-Bush/Repulican/War person... Democracy and negotiations are the first line in preventing loss of life...but you have to draw the line at some point. A ruthless dicatator torturing and killing his own citizens. Terrorists teaming up with other smaller foreign nations arming themselves with the capability and intention of killing Americans because of a 'jihad'. I don't like war any more than the next person...but sometimes it cannot be avoided. When faced against an enemy that is willing to die for their cause, there is no extent to which they won't go. It is at that time that you must take up arms to minimize the loss of life. I'd hate to have to pull the trigger, but I would be able to sleep with a clear conscience knowing that I just took out one person that could have taken down another skyscraper. Unfortunately there is no such thing as 'innocent' lives being lost... Make no mistake, due to terrorism, we will constantly be at war. You either want freedom, or you don't. If you do want freedom, you need to realize that you have to fight for it. Some wars take place across a negotiation table. Others on a field of battle. Either way, you are a combatant, and therefore participating in war. Personally, I'd rather be on a battlefield than at a negotiation table...I'm not much for political 'games'. If you don't want freedom, just go to Khazikstan, throw your hands up in the air, and say 'I'm an American'. Let's see if they care about your anti-war sentiment. They'll just aim an AK at your head and take you out in the name of Allah.
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|Oh your such an idiot!!
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|Hear Hear. I agree, those that criticize the military without ever serving are idiots. I can't stand them! Those that send their sons and daughters off to war and then criticize the war when their child is killed (is tragic) are not patriotic. Portal3's comments are derogatory as an outsider looking in. He/she demonstrates cowardness, moronic thinking. Oh, he knows best,because he has read all the media s@#$.
Stand tall America - stand tall! All you veterans out there from every war, I for one admire and salute you. You truly are Heroes!
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|Take a look at yourself a-hole. Mr Grammar Teacher.
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|athome said:
"Portal3 and Mosimea's comments are derogatory as outsiders looking in."
You might want to re-read my posts. I think you'll find the only derogatory comments I made were towards Portal3, robertguda and their ilk. I did use sarcasm to belittle their comments, so perhaps that was lost on you.
Additionally, I spent 10 years of my life serving in the U.S. Army, over half of it overseas. I was happy to serve with some of the most capable, commited, patriotic, and selfless people around.
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|I apologize in grouping you with such an idiot. I reread the string and found myself in grave error. I did not mean to offend you, but not the same for Portal3. I wished to reach through the screen and give that jerk what he deserved. Please accept my apology.
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|Hey, no problem. I figured that you probably just misread things, being upset. A lot of these comments are just attempts to get a rise out of folks.
Personally, like CowboyX, I don't have a problem that my tax dollars are being used to create this game. The Army has an advertising budget, and I enjoy playing this game a whole lot more than watching ads on tv. This advertising serves a two-fold purpose: one, to educate and create goodwill towards the Army, both in the US and abroad, and two, I'm certain that they hope that through the game young people might be impressed with the mission and professionalism of Army enough to consider serving themselves.
If posters here actually played the game, they'd see that the creators have made great efforts to make it more than just a first-person shoot-up.
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|As far as being targeted for 13-18 yr olds...
You have to be 18 to join the service,high school
graduate or equivalent and pass the ASVAB.In other
words you have to be intelligent.Intelligent enough to know a video game is not the real thing.That aside some of you commenting act as if the U.S. military is evil,please put your greenday,system of the down cd's away and talk to a soldier.My family has many and i plan to join myself (infantry)in about three months.I think being apart of something that kills terrorists,topples dictactors,undercovers massgraves (know one in main stream media ever mentions that)is something noble.God bless our troops!
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|i honestly hate responding to these online, i'd rather do it in the bar across the street face-to-face but this time i'll allow an exception. and i apologize for getting off the subject of the game itself.
i've seen many people confuse the concept of hating the war with hating the troops. i fully support our troops (although i don't have the bumper sticker which proves it), i just don't support the war. god bless the troops, every one of them. they are doing what they are ordered to do, whether they like it or not, and i have the utmost respect for that. i just don't agree with the orders themselves. and when you quote music like that, have you listened? its not about the soldiers, its about the orders given to the soldiers.
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|Another one that has NO clue.
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|That was a very cogent rebuttal. Could you elaborate on it?
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|Yes, I agree and thank you for those comments. It is sad that a game has brought this forum to pot shots/hatred towards America. America is not the problem.
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|I have heard all of that from the mass media. How did you hear about massgraves? Mass media? Yup.
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|blah blah blah
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|It's a game.
If you like it play it. If you don't like it then don't play it.
It's not like if you get a high score the Army comes and takes you from your house and sends you to war.
Get a grip. **eyes rolling**
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|Couldn't really agree with you more.
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|propoganda in the form of a game. shame shame
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|Why else make a game like this and put it out there for free? They should make an action MMORPG and put a price tag on it for monthly access generating more of a budget. Which they're getting too much of anyhow (budget that is) and then they can use the extra money in other departments that need it.
Also stop whining, so what if it is a recruting tool? At least we don't have a mandatory draft at the age of 18 like Israel does. I'm actually beginning to think we should again since many people take their freedoms for granted, including the freedom to choose wether or not they want to fight for the country (then again who really wants to be cannon fodder?).
Some of the celebraties sicken me who sing all about patriotisim and don't join the armed forces. USO tour, great, while you're over there pick up a gun and kill a few enemy combatants.
Those who complain about the government should also do something like protest. The squeeky wheel gets the grease, or shot. But at least try to make a difference.
Sorry I'm getting way off topic, but I've been up for a while and something just set me off. Still very accurate info though.
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|Not everyone wants to be killed for a corrupt GOV or have tests preformed on them them by the GOV. That is why they don't join.
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|Or is it your a coward?
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|" Or is it your a coward?" No just not a retarded inbred that thinks the GOV is always right.
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|there are countries in this world that are free of terrorism hassles and such...there are countries in this worldthat teach their children well and dont get mixed up in any kind of agression...maybe they are the fools of this galaxy, where all that counts is money power and brutal egoism...defend your country ? stop attacking others !!!
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|Yep, you've sure nailed us Americans. All we do is run around the world attacking innocent countries. Totally unjustified and unprevoked.
I totally agree with you - if we'd only disband our military, nothing like people flying airplanes into skyscrapers would ever happen nor would perfectly reasonable people like Kim il-Jung build nukes while starving his own people.
Just what world do you live in? Sheesh.
Have you ever thought that your sheltered life may have been partially bought by the blood shed by U.S. military personnel?
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|In Australia they're openly targeting 13+ yr olds with tv commercials using real life tactical situations that always end with I think "...the next move is up to you". Everyone's trying to get the kids in wherever they are. Each country uses different ways. Game isn't realistic enough, but hey neither are the tv commercials, or movies. Is America's Army a Recruiting Tool? Of course it is! Just like all the movies with authentic real military hardware. The army will give a director a tank or two, if the army is shown in a good light. The game's just a small cog in a very large wheel part of a very large military machine. beyond that, is something for conspiracy theories.
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|Come on, folks...you cannot tell me this isn't a recruiting tool! Targeting 13-18 year olds, because if they wait any longer, they'll lose them...?? I feel sorry for the interviewer, too...because this guy seems a bit off, to begin with... This is what is wrong with the United States, right now...their primary focus is on patriotism, and the armed forces...it's a sad direction for a country to take...
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|I also agree that it indeed sounds alot like a partial recruiting tool. But it is also good for the Army to get info out there which gives a much better representation to young Americans of what the army is all about . I think America's Army game is quite successful in that regard . It will also succeed in making people aware that hey ,the Army is a choice too . And most importantly people who would have played this game are more likely to have a better understanding of what the army entails than others resulting in recruits that are less likely to quit and are more focussed .
Finally even if it was an out and out recruiting tool , once privacy is protected I don't really see what the big deal is anyway .Armies need to recruit people , all countries need armies ...... nuff said .
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|In this game will it include dry sweeping and cleaning/waxing floors? Will it also include lawn mowing..? because that is what I see most of the people do in the army at times?
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|Word on the streets is that they'll have an expansion pack that allows you to attend college with tax payer dollars!
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|"Word on the streets is that they'll have an expansion pack that allows you to attend college with tax payer dollars!"
Are you really that stupid or gullible?
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|Spoken like a true soldier. Yeah, in the army you do a lot of jobs, from "landscaping" to "interior decorator". But the longer your in the Army you see that some (and I do stress the word some) of those tasks and details need to be done.
I'v play this game before and I like it. They put a lot of detail into this game. Right now I'm in the Army, in Afghanistan. The same uniforms and weapons you see in the game is what we have over, with slight differences based on different units. The game really gives you a lot of info about the gear and weapons soldiers have, and some basic tactics. Minus the floor buffing and lawn mowing.
Is it a recuriting tool? Officialy no but, it feels like one cause the Army developed it. How many army like games are there? Quite a few. But no one calls those recuriting tools, because there made by civilian software companies.
Being in the Army myself I've had to do a lot of crap and give up some personal freedoms to do my duty, but I don't regret it. I'll do my time and move on. Having recuriting programs help keep our military branches up to strength in man power. If no one joins the military what do you think will happen to this nation? Without a military our freedom will be in danger, and no one will be there to defend it.
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|Are you really that stupid to not sense sarcasm when you read it?
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|*snap* ;)
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|Thank you for being there for us. And thank you for the personal sacrifices you made for your country.
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|LOL some ppl just don't understand sarcasm
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|They already do, it is called Pell Grant or Perkins Loan.
You don't even have to pay it back. Who would figure, only in America.
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