This campaign will backfire. This smells of a last ditch effort by Microsoft to make Vista popular. I really wonder who Microsoft is hiring for their ad campaigns, because the Vista campaign has missed the one most important aspect every new product needs desperately: innovation! Without innovation, nothing flies even if you're the most powerful software company in the world.

How many people have seen Windows before? Speaking of Vista, how many people have seen the Apple features that have been implemented in the Windows Vista OS? With that said, I think you know where I'm going with this. Windows Vista has missed the boat on innovation, and Microsoft has failed in providing novelty to the masses. People want to say, "Wow!?" Apple is making that happen. Microsoft is not. Also, the very core of the Windows OS is very closely reliant on Internet Explorer. Some say there is a way to remove Internet Explorer, but - in my opinion - removing IE would be creating a whole new Windows OS. This has always been a problem.

Last, Unix based OSes (i.e. Linux and OS X) will always be able to expand with novel ideas and morph into something that makes users go "wow!" In essence, Microsoft has backed themselves into a corner, and they sadly will have to pull off an entirely new and exciting innovation in order to heal the wounded expectations of the world's Windows users. Surely, that will be like climbing Mt. Everest, but with all those billions of dollars, I know you probably could call some kid at MIT to come out with an all new Microsoft operating system worthy of a gander by a buyer here or there. Peace!

Let me sum it up for you. My dad just purchased a brand new computer from an office superstore four weeks ago without talking to me about it. Mind you this man uses the computer for ONLY ONE THING, he gets on Yahoo to play games. VISTA COULD NOT HANDLE THIS TASK. Between constant crashing on him and not being able to log onto the computer long story short he took it back to the store. I recently bought a new laptop with vista 2 gigs of ram and 320 gig hd. This thing is slower than a computer running Windows 98 in most cases which by the way is the OS that my dad went back to with his old computer. So all the rhetoric that this "Newer better OS" doesnt matter to newbies or the uninformed is obvioiusly false. Why didn't MS let them use it?? I wonder!

Nothing wrong with Vista. I bought a HP laptop with vista installed on it, and it works fine for daily, normal home use. My cousin uses it 99% of the time and never has issues. She is not what I'd call tech savvy. lol. She's the typical end user. They just download music, watch movies, check mail, browse the web and play a game here and there. In that regard, any modern OS (Windows, Linux or Mac) would fit the bill.

I bought two other cousins the eeepc 701 and it fits all their needs. I installed LinuxMint on all of my family's PC's and they haven't had any issues. They don't know the difference. That tells you something about the average user.

They don't care what the OS is, all they care about is if they can go on facebook, chat on msn, get their email and watch crap on youtube.

In that regard I think the "experiment" proves its point. Most people don't even know what OS they are running, what version of it (32/64bit) it is and if it sucks. They are used to what they are used to...

I don't mind Vista. I know it's not as bad as other say because I've spent enough time with it to form my own opinion.

Personally, due to DRM, licensing,and the locked in nature of MAC, MS and Apple are the same to me. No thanks. Linux is the turtle in this race... =)

This ad campaign is targeting people who seem to know nothing about computers. Which leads me to say they will not be satisfied with Vista because they will not have a loaded system like mine to run it. I really don't like much of anything that Microsoft makes, but if you can afford a quad core with 8gb ram; Vista kicks major a$$ on it. By the way, Microsoft was probably running the demo on a killer machine as well. Microsoft's cheating again; what's new...

BTW, Vista search is one thing I did try on my Aunt's machine, and it worked well. And I suppose added security is a good thing. The new computer she has doesn't seem all that fast however. Perhaps it is the junk put on the HP computer at time of install. I understand that they are no longer giving buyers the Windows disk at time of purchase. Is this true? I went and used the XP disk I got with my older Dell and just installed Windows, and the speed increased. OK, a few other tweaks along the way. Could be that the Vista I was looking at could be tweaked over properly to run a bit faster -- not sure. Like I said, search is good, and it can save time. The current Vista, updated ain't so bad.

Well, as you say Sasami, in the last post, Vista does come with the PC, so I too, if buying a new computer would give it a go. First I would see what is required in the way of changes to get it to run fast and easy along the way, rather than just eye candy. I have only used a standard setup. I do not plan of getting a new computer at the moment, as my five year old Dell runs fine with XP. When Windows7 comes out, and they test it for a few months with customers, and it seems to work, I may get another computer. I have installed Ubuntu Linux and it is pretty darn good and the computer runs fast with that system. Is it worth changing over to learning all the ins and outs of Linux, possibly not -- as I see it today. For security it is however top notch. For applications, I still like all the freeware choices in Windows, and of course I am most familiar with the O/S. After playing a bit with Ubuntu I can see how far along they have come however it making it easy for us simple minded Windows users to operate. It is getting there! The install even found my laser printer, and such. Sound was not working though. And yes, some to learn about installing vs. mounting and such. Unless Windows7 is disastrous, or for that matter if I do get a Vista system which I can not live with, or MS decides on a high priced subscription plan for Window7, I will likely stay the course. If the computer keeps working though with XP, I see no reason to switch. Not saying anything is dreadfully wrong with Vista, just as nothing that complex about using Linux. Now I am still waiting for evidence of a Mac being superior. Guess I need to seek out the wise men in the back of the Apple Store, called the Genuis. They must hold the key to knowledge. The salespeople up front gave me no sound reason to change to Apple.

To be honest I don't understand article writers whining in the end. Your arguments are bit faulty and hardly working at all. Firstly UAC warnings don't pop out that often if you are standard user, secondly most people will buy new PC with Vista, not plain Vista. And because they buy new PC they always get Home Premium. Thirdly you make mistake assuming that leap from XP to Vista would same as Windows to Linux, it isn't.

Major mistake you take is queting anonymous tech blog reader, they aren't target audience of this campaign. The main target is to stop wave that those anonymous commenters caused whining often without real reason.
What Microsoft is trying to stop is this stupidity where some non-tech person reads some anonymous whining why Vista is bad, spends 1 second to think and makes conclusion that Vista is some horrible belzebub that will eat his children. Then he goes talking to other non-tech people how he found out that how terrible Vista was WITHOUT EVER USING IT!

Microsoft can't change the forum whiners or tech blogger whiners, they are same whiners who were arguing that XP was fat pig and there 1980's printer didn't work like it did in Win98, or those guys who claim that DOS still is best.

I been reading and hearing such loads pure bulls*** about how bad Vista is since it came out it's about time that Microsoft clears things out. Keep mind that this is just a start of ad campaign.

Oh, it backfired BIG TIME!

Well having started with Win 3.1, Win95, 98, 98se, skipping ME, and now using XP, I have had overall a pretty good experience with the Microsoft O/S. Some frustration along the way, but holds true for them all, as I am sure Mac has had some hiccups along the way. Have used Vista briefly at my Aunt's home, and find it nothing to get excited about, and not all that speedy. Could live with the system, no doubt, if I tweaked it for better performance. That said, I may be like other XP owners looking for something different to try. That will be Ubuntu Linux, which is free to own, and free of requiring anti-virus apps while running. I have recently switched to all portable apps, many of which are available as Linus apps, so I will be familiar with those Internet and digital photography applications. If I find myself going back to boot into XP to find a favorite program, such as FastStone, rather than using say XNview, well I may not do a total switch.

Then there is Mac, which I have never even experimented with. After playing at their store with the O/S, you realize the brief encounters yield little in the way of an experience. Well I did find their calendar less useful than Sunbird - not as fast to get alarms set too. Would have to make more trips to the store to use the software more, and find someone which can truly explain why I should switch to Mac. Something more than it never breaks, it is more easy to use and no viruses, would be helpful. Hard to believe Mac is such good food, as in the forbidden fruit. ;-) The loyalty is amazing, but then again, are their eyes simply glossed over? I have a five year old computer and XP has served me well. And in the end, all three O/S are likely very good in their own way.

This whole Mojave experiment was a HUGE screw up on Microsoft's part. I don't know who's idea this was but at a minimum, they should get a demotion and a serious pay cut for doing it. This is a major affront to the informed, educated users out there that are the ones that were telling everyone that Vista had problems.

How smart is Microsoft? Intelligent users let the world know about problems with Vista. How does Microsoft respond? By insulting those same users with an idiotic ad campaign showing how easy it is to fool uneducated users into thinking that Vista is really a new OS. OS Problems? What OS problems? We don't have any problems here? ....yeah, right.

How much money did they spend putting this whole campaign together do you think? How many of Vista's actual bugs and problems could have been fixed and resolved by putting that same money toward actual developers working on fixing the Vista problems? Brilliant.

If MS were half as smart as they like to think they are, they would spend more time building a rock solid product that was actually rock solid, and a lot less time trying to insult the intelligence of their sophisticated users with absolute BS ad campaigns like this that aren't going to impress ANYONE and are only going to upset nearly everyone one that sees them.

I think someone in the marketing department (whoever put this ad campaign together) needs to have a good, long talking to over at MS.

Not exactly the sharpest tool in the box.

(Why do I get the feeling that Apple is now going to have an absolute field day spoofing this whole thing in their next round of commericals?)

I couldn't help but noticing that the Mojave Experiment website uses Adobe Flash and not Microsoft's own Silverlight. Funny.

1-3 months? let them spend 1 day with it... on their CURRENT hardware.

i dont think im gonna say anything new here but here goes:
1) first off if the people couldn't identify vista that says a lot about who MS chose for the experiment
2) even if the people were allowed to actually interact with vista what kind of machine and settings used are a big question...
3) vista is a fiasco. and the fact that windows 7 or whatever the new iteration of windows is called is using the SAME kernel is just bad news.

Let them spend 1-3 months using Vista and see what they say then. Then call it a new expirement.

Wow! What kind of user can't tell that they are running Vista? Has the technical skill set of the PC user become so low, that they can be fooled like this? If these people are the target customers maybe MS should just include a few weight loss pills, a work at home kit, and a gas saving fuel line magnet with Vista. That should FIX THE BLOATED piece of junk!

UAC doesn't improve security. That's a fact.

Regarding the actual article, to make a brief analogy, this same Mojave experiment could have been done with Windows 95 and gotten very similar results.

UAC doesn't improve security. That's a fact.

See, now if it *was*, you'd be able to back that up.

Of course, you can't, so you continue with even more BS you pulled out of your %$@.

Anything that causes the user to stop for a moment and *think* improves security.

PC_Tool, I do this for a living. UAC doesn't improve security for the same reason that the firewall traffic alerts that Zone Alarm used to display by default doesn't improve security.

UAC has a very high false positive rate and it's very easy to use numerous tactics such as process injection to bypass it. The average user gets so annoyed by it they either turn the feature off or click Yes without thinking.... Back to square one.

UAC has a very high false positive rate

Lay of the crack, man.

Seriously.

UAC is *not* a malware detector. It's only function is to lock programs that attempt to access certain parts of the system until permission is granted or denied.

The average user gets so annoyed by it they either turn the feature off or click Yes without thinking.... Back to square one.

I don't know where you live, but the average user here tends to call me asking about it. Which is just fine.

Of course, I do so enjoy your "Average user=everyone=no security benefit" logic as well.

Back you being without a clue. Imagine that...

The majority of users do not do not respond to UAC prompts or most Yes/No security prompts properly. It really comes down to cost-benefit analysis. There are many other simple security measures that could be implemented into the Windows OS by default which would be significantly more effective and rarely require user intervention.

UAC cannot be relied on for security due to it's significant amount of warnings and various methods of bypassing it which have been disclosed publicly months ago. The concept of UAC is very good and could work but due to poor implementation UAC is not effectively used in the majority of cases at locking programs that access certain parts of the system. You can look at the statistics for hundreds of thousands of Windows Vista user getting infected with malicious code as proof of that.

UAC was primarily designed to annoy users to force software developers to make changes to how their programs run.

"At the RSA 2008 confab in San Francisco, Microsoft admitted that UAC was designed, in fact, to annoy. Microsoft's David Cross came out and said so: "The reason we put UAC into the platform was to annoy users. I'm serious," said Cross."

Source: http://arstechnica.com/n...igned-to-annoy-you.html

This just in:

97% of the retards in this country only use thier computers for web browsing, sending those "funny" joke emails, and typing up address labels for Christmas cards.

It doesn't matter what the unimportant mass of zombies put on thier computers for an O/S. They are too stupid to keep viruses and trojans from ravaging any computer.

Here's the problem with Mojave: The entire principle is people who have never used Vista hate it because they've heard bad things. The problem is that many people who have used it hate it too.

Putting up a video showing noobs being surprised at how easy it is to use a wizard app to create a DVD does not take anything away from the actual reasons people like myself dislike the OS.

I use it and love it...
why do you dislike it? explain.

Here's a good review of the rigged Mojave experiment and why it's a stupid approach:

http://www.marketwatch.c...D98E5%2DD8BC81DA1770%7D

This is the most retarded group of comments I have ever seen, and I troll digg regularly.

I think Vista is fine if you don't play any 3D games or use third party audio/video products or create something on it. I think its best for Facebook & Live Messenger though :-D My favorite however is to sit in front of my 27” monitor and watch the screen-savers. Spectacular!

I use 64bit vista and I play games, and work with videos all the time on my 28" screen. What you need is a new computer.

No no what I need is a month off from all you Vista monkeys ;)

Amen to that daq. I have used both 32 and 64-bit Vista. Never an issue with either. It recognizes all of my drives and I'm even able to use disk writing software like Roxio or Nero. It plays every high-end game I have. Even some older ones. I upgraded my hardware, while using XP, to play those games and it all worked flawlessly under Vista.

Ok. Goodbye, then!

UAC prompts do NOT “steal focus” from the user’s task. If the operating system cannot determine that the prompt was generated from the foreground window the current user is using, we will alert the user with a highlighted operation in the taskbar that an application is requesting elevated privileges. The user can select to elevate at his or her convenience and not be disrupted by an unplanned application elevation.
http://blogs.msdn.com/uac/pages/744459.aspx

Is piss poor reporting and troll FUD backfiring with users?

News at Eleven.

;)

True, background applications never steal focus with UAC prompts.

You quoted Internetqorld7.

In a topic about *users*.... ?

You do realize he is *not* a Vista user, right?

You couldn't tell from the dozens of "Jobs is GOD" posts?

The users are defending it, Jaq... You might want to actually *look* at the comments next time.

It's the MSFT trolls who are, as usual, slamming it.

SSDD.

Nice troll, Jaq. I'm sure they all had fun. Hope you got yer hit-quota. Nice that you quoted *just* the trolls on the site. Now that's quality "reporting".

truth does hurt, so I'm sure I'll be seeing that negative mod in 3...2...

And there was I going to congratulate Jaq on moving up from just writing ill concealed ads as news. *sigh*. Just *sigh*....

*BREAKING NEWS*

What PC_Troll doesn't realize is that internetworld7 has set up and trouble shooted computers running Windows Vista before!

OH MY GOODNESS! DON'T TELL THIS TO PC_TROLL THOUGH...

Really? this will be fascinating to hear...what screen pops up on a first install for Vista?

When does UAC need to be used?

Does it always say allow or cancel when security needs to be elevated?

Where is Windows Update, how is it different from XP?

How do you elevate priviledges when using the cmd line?

What purpose does the search serve in the start menu?

How do you repartition the hdd?

What PC_Troll doesn't realize is that internetworld7 has set up and trouble shooted computers running Windows Vista beofe!

You've touble shooted beofe?

I lol'ed. Really.

Thanks.

"You've touble shooted beofe?

I lol'ed. Really."

Sorry I don't speak inbred. :)

dude just stop acting childish, everything you say, every comment that you post shows how immature you are

that went over your head, huh?

He was making fun of you on not being able to spell before and you put a space between trouble and shooted :D

I like internetworld7. internetworld7 my friend.

Apparently you do.

Hence the parody.

You aren't really all that bright, are ya boy?

Roswell vs. Mojave. Both decidedly weird desert-themed occurrences with truths seemingly being adjusted as required. And, both are attempts to fool all the of people all of the time.

Is either the Roswell incident or Mojave experiment any more believable and/or manipulated than the other? Quite frankly, it appears to be a tie. After using Vista for several months now, why Microsoft did some things certain ways remains entirely alien to me.

(Did not anyone is Micro$oft'$ marketing department catch that one--consumers mentally and subconsciously associating Mojave with lies and cover-ups not unlike Roswell? Doh!)

I have a severe, chronic bipolar disorder accompanied by frontal lobe brain damage. I have spent a large portion of my life in behavioral health wards and suicide watch. My brother's only child took his own life as a result of the disorder.

I just talked to my neighbor who lost his mother to cancer last night.

Can you compare the issue of what OS you use to these tragedies? Get a little perspective. I'd like any of you to live in my head for one day. You might get a different idea about what's important in life.

Take your meds. You clearly need them today.

omfg...

*plays worlds smallest violin*

Can you compare the issue of what OS you use to these tragedies?

No. Why would we? This is a tech site....we discuss tech here. Get it?

The world, as one might think you'd have noticed, does not revolve around you and your problems.

We *all* have problems.

Most of us, however, are fully capable of leaving the discussion of them for the sites that cater to them, and don't go around proclaiming our suffering on sites that have absolutely *nothing* to do with those issues.

Get a little perspective? Right back at ya!

Just because we post here doesn't make us blind to "what's important in life".

It quite obviously does. You don't discuss anything. You merely hammer each other on issues that don't mean a damn to anyone.

Your attempts to "score" on each other are some pathetic grab for attention. Mine is longer than your's. You're the most pathetic of the lot.

My giraffe died the other day, poor necky :(

He tried crossing the street and some driver saw him and freaked out *OMG! there's a giraffe in the street* and pummeled him to bits :/

Well, the driver that is, Necky just died because of getting hit by the car. The driver though won't be hitting anymore giraffes :D

THIS IS A TECH BLOG, it has nothing to do with mom, dad, your grandma, your dog, cat, mouse, pet gerbil or dinosaur.

If you want to discuss personal aspects of your life you are in the wrong forum as it has nothing to do with technology unless Windows was being used to keep them alive then maybe you have something there or Bill Gates killed them.

"Most of us, however, are fully capable of leaving the discussion of them for the sites that cater to them"

Come on now. You can't be serious ??!!??

Oooops !!

Coming from you...that's a compliment.

What do you add?

Whining? The occasional MSFT bash?

Awww.... Poor baby. Want us to all feel sorry for you? Well...we do. Just not for the reasons you apparently want us to. :)

Is this news or commentary?

Seems really anti-microsoft to me. I've used Vista since it was first available. I have had to get past some network issues, but all in all after having installed it and used it consitantly on a daily basis for well over a year now, I've found it a huge leap over XP.

I'm sure some mud-slinger's going to smack me in the chops for saying this, but seems to me that more "news" gets attention by being negative than impartial.

Over the past few years, BN has been getting worse about that. It is, almost, as if the have done a retrofit with a bunch of ratings crazed people that no longer know how to report news.

Milking comments to a prior article -> new article. Writes its self, I suppose. Pure fluff and filler. It's not an objective approach and provides no quotes of any value.

What many of you seem to be neglecting is that this "experiment" was not intended to win over the tech crowd. It targeted at the non-tech crowd as an attempt to dispel some of the unfounded negativity surrounding Vista.

I think that the reality if you give the average, non-techie a decent box with Vista running (not the budget garbage that manufacturers know can't really handle it), they are going to be ok with it. The user experience is pretty close to XP. It runs the basic set of software that they use just the same. The average user just doesn't care as long as he can check his e-mail.

Microsoft's biggest failings with Vista:
1) Didn't work hard enough at rallying the hardware companies to provide drivers out of the gate. Of course the certification expense barrier has a big impact on a company's willingness to bother with legacy hardware support.

2) Caving to pressure from OEM manufacturers to lower the entry requirements. Using Vista on one of the Vista "Capable" systems that really isn't so capable is quite a painful experience. Insufficient RAM tends to be the biggest problem. Pawning off a system with 512 MB is just silly.

3) Little to no added value to (most) businesses.

4) Pathetic marketing.

Even as I agree about the concern with the experiment and the reception it got form most technology enthusiasts, don't you think it's a shame you have to quote your own site comments instead of all the other sites around internet where comments like this are posted?

Agree - I couldn't stop laughing reading this piece of trash. How pathetic to have to rehash your own article. Come on betanews, teach Jacqueline how to actually report on something newsworthy so she can move on to bigger and better things.

Interesting personal rant. The same could be said of the Apple Switch Campaign. "Were these real people?" "Did she really save Christmas?" "Did she realize her Windows software wouldn't work on the Mac?"

C'mon guys. It's clear you're too biased to report the facts.

Sorry, but Windows Vista is not an "ultrafail"..... I hate this "Blog-style" reporting.... News stories are supposed to report the facts, not make asinine statements based on "popular opinion."

U call THIS "news?" I call it UltraFUD.

Yes, I hate M$'s bias in this marketing campaign. Put a developer or 'power user' in the seat of "Mojave" and they will tell you that not only is it rubbish, it's Vista!

Vista is fine for the majority of people, who are not really tech savvy or just want to brighten and email a few photos here and there. Usually the software they have buy (i.e. Photoshop Elements) is already Vista capable and their machines are capable of running Vista because it came preloaded on when they bought it.

But, for the rest, what a turd of an OS, and if I recall correctly, M$ have had to acknowledged that numerous times... Yes, I like the GUI, but no thank you, XP will serve me fine until a REAL decent new OS takes its place (hopefully Windows 7). Nuff said.

Oh come on I have had Vista installed on my 2005 XP computer since around Beta 2 of Longhorn(VISTA) and have NOT looked back. Vista ran fine on my 1GB of ram and old Geforce 5200 graphics card.

Dont give me this FUD about tech savvy people not liking Vista. Im a developer how much tech savvy do I have to be?

And for your info Win7 is just going to be Vista R2. So sorry buddy.

I'd rather have 500 pieces of malware than another UAC prompt. Then again, I don't browse with a dumb s*** browser that gets malware in the first place...

lol I had around 500 pieces of malware on a machine the other day... gee that UAC did look tempting to have :) lol

what do you think of poop when you do not know it is poop

The Mojave Vista experiment was an experiment indeed, but the purpose of it was not what you think it was.

It was a psychological experiment to see if MS could market a product called Windows 7, which is essentially Vista without any significant changes, and convince people that it was a totally new OS!

It seems to have worked. Coming soon - Windows Vista SP2... err... ummm... Windows 7!

How convenient to skip over the important missing bits that affected the outcome of a fundamentally flawed campaign.

Any psychologist wanna be could tell you that.

This campaign is really making my blood boil. Dirty tactics...

You got to be kidding me, this article quotes the biggest troll on BN... give me a break.

The constant nagging about UAC is the funniest as its not ALWAYS coming up it comes up during changes that affect the OS, it does the same exact thing in Ubuntu as well, the only difference is you can override it altogether but most novice users would not have a clue how to do that...

The point everyone is missing is these people only HEARD about Vista they never used it and probably never saw it either. MS was proving that word of mouth over things that are not true can change the face when people actually see it rather then listening to Iha8tewindows435234 on a msg board.

"These tech illiterates were shown a 'demo' of Vista. Not let loose with the thing...(or God forbid, [to] try to install it and use it on their own PC). 'Mojave Experiment?' 'Rigged Experiment,'" noted internetworld 7, a BetaNews reader."

DO I SENSE A HINT OF JEALOUSLY TERMINALX? ^__^

If you contribute words of ACTUAL MEANING as I do in my laborious attempt to educate you M$ fanboy losers in all things Mac, maybe, just maybe BetaNews will think highly enough of you and quote something you say (Although I HIGHLY doubt you are capable of saying something that is meaningful without trolling for once.)

"Although I HIGHLY doubt you are capable of saying something that is meaningful without trolling for once."

that's you

ROFL wow...pot calling the kettle black... you come on threads about Microsoft and post things that have NOTHING to do with the topic whatsoever, you are the resident troll on BN, everything you have ever said is nonsense.

Once again you fail and will continue to fail again and again.

As stated I don't base my opinion on a product because of name, I use a product on my needs.

I have used all three operating systems but I am not going to pay Apple $1000 just to use their OS.

Next time your next troll you might actually make sense...

educate them?? how?

"Is Microsoft's Mojave Vista experiment backfiring with users?"

This isn't exactly related to the rigged Mojave experiment but this tells you exactly what enterprises think of Vista:

http://macdailynews.com/...p/weblog/comments/18039/

What a surprise the resident troll is posting an article from an APPLE site, wow there's no bias there whatsoever...

What you fail to realize is XP wasn't adopted for the longest of times either for businesses, there are still businesses running on 2000 and a lot of businesses just upgraded to SP2 and continue to use IE6 still.

This is nothing new and its always been this way.

Wow internetworld7!! MACdailynews is posting a negative article about Vista?? No WAY! It MUST be true then!

LOL.

Yes but if you go with Apple "it just works." Plus you get the privilege of severely overpaying for "special" hardware.

Yep I still know of many businesses from Oil Field Services to Grocery chains that run Windows server 2003 with Windows 2000 terminals.

Only if its a Newly built location do they upgrade ALL equipment to run on server 2008 with the newest Vista Business. But even then especially with the Cashier systems they often still use XP or 2000 in them cause they often get them from other stores to open up with.

I have to say I was proud to see 2 of the latest retail stores being built up here are using Solaris, and server for all their POS systems, and data terminals, and web services, with Suns version of Staroffice on all the management machines.

New age, new age. Say hello Sun Microsystems once more folks!!! IMHO Where goes business, so to Governments, and then soon too the rest of us. Cause we use what we know, and if we have to know something we will choose what we get PAID to know. So the work machine wins.

Over time Linux will have more and more for it coming available. Think of it like this we are still in the Tandy generation state of development in linux when compared to IBM compatibles life cycle.

Ok extreme exaggeration, But Its Infancy still IMHO, and given time and adoption, it can and probably will Unseat MS if MS consumer relations and offerings to not become more then just more of the same old thing in a new wrapper.

Least when it comes to Linux its Cheaper for having to do it on a different environment. And that is a benefit any way you cut it. It's more of the same yes, But its cheaper.

Actually MacDailyNews is referring to an article written by another source, computer world to be exact. But nice try at trolling though...

lol! A balanced outlook is always essential.

Just visit microsoft.com and then apple.com

The thing with Vista is it works great for some people, on some hardware setups. Some people just seem to be lucky - Vista works 100% for them, and did since they day they installed it.

Yet there are others who have problems - from first install to present - and these problems just keep coming. I waited until well after SP1 to install Vista for the first time (on modern hardware), yet like others I've had a plethora of problems. It's not like I don't know what I'm doing (I've been in IT support for 9 years) it's just that Vista STILL has some serious issues from a compatibility and reliability standpoint. Things like poor driver support (my soundcard), incompatible apps (Ultramon crashes frequently, my older games struggle like Warcraft 3, etc, etc), USB power/standby issues (known issue, no resolution), networking issues (improved in SP1, but still random dropouts when IPv6 protocol is enabled), broken Windows Search.... the list goes on.

And I see the same sort of random problems everyday on client machines. The fact is, Vista was half-cooked at release, and is about 90% done now. By the time SP2 comes around (or Windows 7, which rumour seems to think IS Vista SP2) it will probably be complete. It's just really disappointing for those that forked out big bucks for a new PC or a retail copy of Vista to find out they waited 5-6 years and got something that wasn't quite ready.

Been doing IT stuff about since day 1.Your comment makes more sense than any I've read ,pro or just average poster.

How are you blaming Ultramon crashing on Vista? The developer of Ultramon releases a new beta for the "vista compatible" version once a year and expects everyone to live with it crashing. Its ultramon's vault for crashing Tenoq not vista.. I have both.

If your so experienced why dont you know that poorly written apps crash all by themselves without any help from the OS?

Don't listen to the "psycho" b*tch (yes I mispelled your name on purpose), Vista Haters, and Apple Fan Wusses.

Everyone I know using Vista turned off UAC, thus a non-issue. Just turn it off and shut the f**k up!

Lots of people use to whine, whine, whine about XP when it first came out, so they are likely the same whiners about Vista.

All of you need to grow up, I use Vista, XP, 2000 and multiple flavors of Linux and Unix almost everyday. Yeah, each one is different, but so what, not the end of the world like the cry babies are crying about.

I have been using Vista since it was released, and yes it is different, but so what, get use to it because it isn't going away.

For all you Windows fan boys...remember the enemy is Apple...so GROW UP and quit vocally hating Windows, which only hurts the public view of Windows.

I think people need to learn how to use their computers or get new ones that can support Vista, If you ask me. None of these complains are even worth mentioning as it's just not a big deal. I'm lucky if I get UAC weekly.

I use at least 4 different OS's a day. Vista isn't the worst one I use.

LOL, I'm not sure whats more amazing, the fact I got quoted by BN or the sheer stupidity of the comments from the Microsoft apologists. Notice I say Microsoft apologists and not Vista apologists - we all know the score here. Notice as well how their only defense is calling people stupid or poor. Let me turn that around on you, Vista lovers: I think anyone who runs Vista is just either too poor or too stupid to buy a Mac. How's that feel, eh? A little too close to home? Because frankly, that is precisely how I feel about anyone that's still shoveling the same tired old load about Vista. Face it, kids..Microsoft blew it with Vista. Its NOT better than XP in any way. Its so-called "features" bring zero to the table except annoyance and incompatibility. You can fool yourselves as much as you like and keep right on slinging keen insight such as, "most of the problems were with code written by others" and, "These retards probably can't operate a calculator without a users manual". You reveal yourselves for the Microsoft zombies that you truly are, religious zealots bowing and scraping before your obscenely rich idols in Redmond. Oh, may we bathe eternally in the light of Bill-Who-Steals-Ideas! May Saint Ballmer grace us with his holy Monkey Boy Dance once more! I bet every single one of you will vote for Obama, too. But maybe my favorite line of all is from Ivthunder who quips, "Microsoft has to do something to combat the bad word of mouth that Vista has gotten". So LYING about a DEMO of your product is a worthy response in your book? That tells me everything I need to know about your character. Want me to get more personal? Because believe me, I can. Stop trashing those who are obviously smarter than yourself. Get out of your dreamworld and actually learn to do something with a computer besides playing World of Warcraft and browsing porn sites. Oh, you don't do either of those things? Well guess what, maybe those who are sticking with XP aren't stupid, poor or militantly anti-Microsoft, either.

Bite me! I build computers Psycros so I am well versed on all these so called problems with Vista .I own three copies of vista installed on PC's I use for business everyday and I have no problems I do not play games or look at porn but you seem to no something about porn. I won't be voting for Obama I am a Canadian. Is Vista's demo anymore of a lie than Apples TV ads .So seeing as you hate Microsoft so bad what are you using, me thinks I smell an Apple Zombie why don't you go suckle on one of Steve Jobs teets.I think you know nothing about Vista and not much about anything else because you are the one spewing lies. So go play your World of Warcraft watch porn and touch yourself .

HahahahaQ

After that asinine post, no one is going to accuse you of knowing anything about Vista, or OSX for that matter!

You must be one of the Windows users with less than a 100 IQ that were identified by the Visa fanboy in the last thread about this.

Oh sorry, you did say you were Canadian. No need to be redundant and pile on... LOL!

No this Vista trashing Moron is saying "Why WASTE your money when there is no need too?" If your ALREADY getting a new machine, its expected your going to spec it out to use Vista, DUH! But if not Forget about playing into MS propaganda and upgrading. Just work with the fine machine you have already and your good to go. WHY? because Vista adds NOTHING that you should not be able to do in XP MCE with 3rd party software at a fraction of the cost IF NOT FREE.

I'm happy in this Garbage economy we have today you have the money to throw around for a frivolous upgrade to an OS that essentially adds the following.

A updated kernal,
An Annoying UAC that is often disabled anyway.
An Aeroglass interface (equivalents for XP available on Fileforums of Betanews)
Updated shell (Emulation also available for XP via this site)
DX10... OHHH Big deal, I have that on XP now too. So what?
Lets see Bitlocker. (OHHH How about strongdisk.com instead)
Loss of compatibility with much now considered legacy equipment from prior to 2007.
ADDED DRM for Vista MCE that the XP version does NOT have that prevents you from playing HD and Blueray directly into HD TVs or DVD recorders as you may wish it too on the Vista version.
If your a business Vista makes your life HELL even with Microsofts own packages unless your going to upgrade those as well. VERY EXPENSIVE TO DO IN MOST CASES. MS Dynamics, MS Great Plains, Mas 2000, AutoCAD, And so on.

There are others, but in the end you look at what little you gain from Vista that you can not get in XP in someway or the other, and you say, "GEE Why bother?"

Yes Vista is great if you buy NEW. Otherwise your good to go, and will be happier for staying with XP as long as possible and that the masses are doing the same. Took me till SP2 to feel confident enough to switch everything to XP Pro and MCE from windows 2000 Pro. It will be at least another year before I switch to my owned Vista. I got it for free with my Dell and installed it on a new HD. Used it and dropped it cause of incompatibilities and it being SO freaking slow within a month. I try it on occasion and think. Boy am I glad I got this for free, cause I would not pay a penny for it. So eventually some day I will move everything to that and dump my XP. but not for a LONG time to come. If at all. Maybe I'll just wait for windows 7, which MS fears is the most common decision at this point.

Okay ingramo91 you don't want to spend the money. The UAC is what called security and its not that much of a bother and since SP1 it only pops up half as much.I get around the DRM all the time its easy .Microsoft small business 2003 works with Vista you know at some point you have to purchase new software its not going to last forever.I can see you are one of the people I was talking about so I will not waste anymore of my time. I think you would be happier with an Apple or maybe you should use Linux on your crappy old antique hardware or stay with XP because your hardware is not going to run Windows 7 either.P.S are you still watching your old tube black and white television to .

I think people would take your comments a lot more seriously if you didn't write them like a 12 year-old.

I'm interested - did you actually try to READ what you wrote? I've seen 5th graders with better grammar!

Tenoq its kind of childish to attack somebodies grammar is it not, what are you a 5th grade teacher ? So I guess I am not the only one acting like a 12 year old ! I injured my hand in a job related accident so I type with one hand and I make allot of mistakes go ahead and make fun of that,I don't care I am a big boy I can take it .

Yea Small business 2003 for a company employing 100000. naw don't think so.

MS Dynamics is a Accounting program that does AR, Payroll, AP, Tax reporting, and benefits. as well as other stuff I just don't care about. but thats the latest fiasco on Vista. Might as well call it Visa Ready. Cause that redundant upgrade JUST to get Dynamics to work from its existing state in XP with Server 2003, will cost the company near $70,000. Add to that upgrading the Site licensees to Vista Business and of course the domain servers to 2008 so its compatible. Your talking a $250,000 project, and you have not even talked about incompatibilities in hardware yet with Vista. Or setup and conversion, or any of the other things that goes with the upgrade in a business. Up to and including re-training all the employees to use VISTA with UAC popping up. I mean Policies and User Account permissions was fine in XP IF you used it. Yes of course change to a new package for the business so it works on Vista. Ok great... Same cost issue either way. except then you add the time and cost for employes to imput the information into a new system instead of a conversion upgrade. So even more expensive.

Point is Why Bother when Vista is not adding anything of true value beyond a little window dressing? MS is practically giving away Vista to companies now, BEGGING them to upgrade and IT departments are still saying it's not cost effective to do so.

So yea. Like I was saying If you are getting NEW machines Vista is fine, Otherwise Forget it and move on with your day like it never existed at all.

When Windows 7 Comes out Hopefully MS will come to their senses with this fiasco, and Say up front that Windows 7 will work on New machines and new machines ONLY. And then rebuild their market from there with 5 packages.

Windows 7, Some future Multi Core machine.
Windows Vista 64-bit Ultimate for entertainment.
Windows Vista 64-bit Business.
Windows XP MCE SP 4 GOLD 32-bit Legacy machines.
Windows Server 2008 (counting series option as a version but you know what I mean)

MS would gain a TON of free respect from the community if they came forward with that Offering and just plain and simple TOLD THE TRUTH to their customers instead of playing around and making claims that some machine work but only in limited mode BS.

Microsoft has to do something to combat the bad word of mouth that Vista has gotten (especially since most of the problems were with code written by others) and the "I'm a Mac" adds.

As for why they didn't let the people use it was because those people don't know what all the cool new features are.

These Vista trashing morons are trashing it because they either do not have the hardware to run it or they are to cheap to buy it. so instead they make up a bunch of untrue lies , they have limited computer skills so that is Microsoft's fault. These retards probably can't operate a calculator without a users manual.lol

Well it still runs like balls on a C2D @ 3.2Ghz, 2GB RAM, 9800GTX...

I'm not really sure how much more money you think I need to spend to make it work properly. But really, I work with dozens of different boxes everyday - I KNOW the Vista problems aren't just related to slow hardware. It would be very foolish to think just adding some more RAM will solve any and all of Vista's problems. :p

I'm dead tired of the same comment all around.
You didn't try it...
You don't have hardware...

Don't you realize a lot of those you tell that already have powerful computers that might be considered server grade or better for some people.

Don't you realize they used Vista and they reverted to XP after they didn't like it.

But maybe a 5th grader can't see that. Who knows...

Well it still runs like balls on a C2D @ 3.2Ghz, 2GB RAM, 9800GTX...

Not really sure it's possible for vista to "run like balls" on that unless it's pre-SP1 or you have some really bad hardware.

Either that, or it's BS.

AMD 4400+, 2GB, ATi2900. Kicks XP's ass. Haven't disabled a damned thing.

Untrue lies? I've never head of true lies. :)

"Did any of them ever hear that during Vista's earlier days it was hard to get a printer -- or any other peripheral, for that matter -- that worked well with the OS? Or that if you wanted Vista to work with your existing software applications, you'd probably need to hunt around on the Web for a workaround? Have they heard that Vista's User Access Control (UAC) feature is still frustrating, unless you turn it off?

"UAC's interface is annoying. It dims your screen and halts everything and only allows you click on that thing. Yes, it's great security wise, but I have tons of work going on, and basically I have to halt all work to go ahead and figure out what program is wanting me to accept again. (I mean I could just go ahead and click ACCEPT without reading what program is running, but that'd lose the point of UAC,)" pointed out BetaNews reader bsf."

FUD FUD FUD

I have an over 10 year old HP deskjet printer working flawlessly with Vista. 64bit no less. And now is not Vista's earlier days, so why does it matter for them to hear about how it wasn't so good, but it's fine now. They're gonna get it NOW not 1.5 years ago! And UAC does not halt your work! It does not steal focus. If there is a program that needs UAC approval and it wants your attention it flashes in the task bar. You can ignore it and continue with what your doing, then click over to it when your ready.

FUD FUD FUD

Not FUD. I still have a 3 year-old sound card that has half a driver for 32bit Vista (release in April THIS YEAR), and NO 64bit driver. The printer problem I can also confirm, after having to manually install numerous printers for clients with generic, half-supported drivers for a completely different model of printer. Most HP printers work, sure, but 90% of their features and software are gone with Vista.

It's funny actually - in that regard, Vista is a lot like Linux. One driver for numerous devices of different brands that give basic functionality. So why would you pay $200 OEM or $400 retail for Vista when you can pick and choose numerous Linux distros for free?

Yes...I drank the Kool-Aid. I started using Vista with a Pre-RC Beta at home. Yes...at that point in the development process it was pretty bad (I reinstalled XP less than 24 hours later). Now things are a little different.

As some of you may remember, most end-users cried foul when XP was released. These were a lot of the users who cried foul when 98 replaced 95, 95 replaced 3.11, etc and so on. It happens every release cycle like clockwork. And every release cycle, Mac puts out adds showing how much "better" they are than Microsoft's newest incarnation of Windows. The Linux users harp on Open Source as the Holy Grail and that the rest of the sheep are being led to the slaughter by greedy corporations. Oh well...sign me up for the next appointment with the nail gun.

Here's the deal: Windows is the most widely used consumer OS on the planet. It has a HUGE business market share to boot. It has the most varied HCL of any OS on the planet. And 99 times out of 100, if the driver doesn't exist, it will within about 6 months, either from the manufacturer or a third party. It takes a little time "in the wild" to address all of the issues that cannot be feasibly tested prior to release (just look at XP SP3).

Whenever a new OS (or a new version of an existing OS) is released to the market, there will be griping and complaining. In order to add new functionality, you will probably have to increase the requirements for the components the OS will utilize and control. Or you can buy a Mac and have everything done for you for a nominal fee.

What Windows does for the end-user is provide a huge array of choices for almost all budgets. The number of hardware configurations for Windows machines is staggering (just take a look at your local newspaper circulars on Sunday morning). The number of hardware configurations for Mac machines is limited to a handful. Yes, they are high-end. Yes, they have a lot of the utilities and software built in to the OS. The kicker is that you give up choice. You pay 2 to 3 times more for a Mac because they have a corner on the market. And getting grandma to use Linux...well, good luck.

Is Windows (any version) perfect? Far from it. Is it a viable choice for a variety of users, budgets, hardware configurations/requirements? Definitely.

OMG!! I installed vista the first day it came out, its not bad at all lol

all you win98 huggers need to get a side job and buy/build a new PC w/ vista... your gonna love it. after u install it quickly update to sp1 and u will have NO PROBLEMS, trust me.

Most of these win98 huggers complained about XP for yearsss!!!! now look at them rally xp like its the better than vista lol

Burn the heretics!!!! [rolleyes] I see that you're another Vista retard. Speaking of the corporate mind........

Do I get a money back guarantee on that?

To the corporate mind image is everything and substance means nothing. Most of the time 'New and Improved' is just a different and flashier packaging.

I've had much experience with Vista and I would have demanded a copy of this to try out on my own instead of in a "controlled" environment.

They have these places called "stores" and they sell computers there with Vista AND they let you try it out there as well

Now, granted you cannot install programs on it but if you are really on the fence you can put Vista on your machine without registering it and try it out I think you get like a week before it nags you again...

Now, I have to say, When I first SAW Vista, I liked it too!!

It was after I actually started to USE it that the problems became immediately apparent, and THAT'S when I thought it was a piece of crap.

Great Experiment and how Vista looks and not functions.