listen ok ... i Love the fact that linux is Stable ... but i also love Microsoft's GUI ... ok ok ok i know what you're thinking ... it might be unstable and crash a lot .. but as a GUI it ROCKS ... amd that's why people use windows over linux .. now ... take KDE and GNOME and look at them ... you're gonan tell me they're as user-friendly and simple as the windows gui? .. start menu, a couple od quicklinks a taskbar and a system tray .. now THATS a gui ... not 6 million icons showing you cpu usage and stuf .. i mean i know its good to have and it would be cool to be able to add these things .. but for the general population how may of us care how much cpu usage we use up .. i mean cmon id rather have my 5% of desktop space back thank you very much ... i mean i tried linux ... and the one turn off i had with is is the GUI ... the windows GUI (windows 2000 and windows XP ala plain vanilla setting) is head over heels better than KDE and/or GNOME...

now here's what i tell you ... build a freakin gui on linux that is like the windows gui and then and only then will linux appeal to the masss market ... once we get that done then we could try and improve upon it by gettting user feedback etc.

so my cry out to the open source world has been made ... now gather yourselves up and lets get the ball rolling for crying out loud ... KDE and GNOME will NOT take us there ...

please post your feedback.

Wow XP is coming soon!
big freaking deal, go ahead and buy it; I'm NOT.
Your in for a truckload of new bugs, incompatability issues(both hardware and software wise), loss of of your privacy(freedom) on the web and last but not least; settling for an OS where the creators
get to pick which software you can run on it? So why create a
dependency on a bad product and insufficient upgrades over slow
connections?

OK, tell me of a more stable secure operating system as of now.

Linux

Actually, dumba** do to the third party take over of Linux it has gone to s***. Give me a real example.

It's pretty funny that Microsoft manages to charge
people to "beta test" their software, when everyone
else just gives the beta away (and put a time lock
on it, just like Microsoft).

Are you all mindless drones? How can you possibly
justify paying microsoft to beta test their software?
insane

Hmmm... Well.... you also have to take a second and think about that.

MS would have to pay for all the servers it would take top have x million number of people downloading a 490mb ISO file.

And remember, Apple charged for OSX beta, heck, they are charing full price for OSX "final", which is really still a beta, as it STILL has a dubugger and what not.

I already think Windows2000 is a great OS. Especially after you install SP2. I can not wait to see WindowsXP! Microsoft is finally heading in the correct direction and thats towards stability. As for the Linux comments here. Linux is garbage in plain english unless your going to run a web server. My users can not even use Windows98,NT or 2000 correctly can you picture putting a Linux workstation in front of them. What a joke! Proof that Linux will turn out to be another Slo S2 is because IBM is backing it! Why go for a fake if you want Unix go for Solaris. There is real enterprise software. Linux is a fad! A fad that is difinately by surely going to go away.

This will go on forever. Linux, Windows, Mac. Take a good look at xp and tell me what Linux has over it. Linux is slow and needs some help, and until all the linuxians get to get together and work on the same page, it going to continue to suck (but suse Linux does in fact kick ass). Most of the feedback on this article is crap, those of you who make sense, really help beta news to shine, but some of you are fools. And before you say some thing rude to me, blow me, I don’t care, I have my xp, 2k, and suse and they all work fine for me because I like them all for what they are, diverse operating systems.. I don’t want to compare.

only reason your dumping on linux is becasue your a windows f** who doesnt know anything but how to point and click. if it requires more than that you dont want to do it.

And the only reason you're dumping on Windows is so you feel special. That's right, skippy. You feel like you "belong" when you complain about how evil MS is and how much better you and your little linux box are, don't you?
You know what? Get a friggin life. This article has nothing to do with linux. You only bring it up so you can feel special, and so people will talk to you.
Good job.

I said blow me! And I did not dump on Linux; i just said it needed help. i use Linux every day a** hole. I have made my own kernel and have been doing so since 1995. And no matter what I do, it has never work as fast on my 1ghz k7 as windows 2000. If I just point and click why don’t you send me your ip #and ill show what this windows user can do. But i would like for you to tell me what can i do with it, better you tell me what you do with it? What do you use Linux for? What Linux do you use and what computer do you run it on? I bet you do your work with star office right? Get a life a** wipe. You are the kind of teen-age a** wipes I’m talking about at this place.

I wasn't talking to you, buddy. I was agreeing with you. For christ sake, READ!

i was talking to datamatrix, not you mikekol, im sorry if you misunderstood

no problem, man. I figured you were talking to him after I read your message again a few times. Looks like I should take my own advice :) ("for christ sake, READ") Take care.

next you want to compare, try using your brain.

Your a damn idiot. I've been using windows for yrs, and it sux more and more every frikkin release. Ive been using Linux for almost 5, and it gets better and better every release. I dont know why its running slow to you, and I dont know how you can sit there and say SuSe is better because they are all basically the same except for the installer and a couple of proprietary s.w. packages. They all run on the same Kernel, so pls learn to speak the right info before you open that big mouth a******

pffft...
"I've been using windows for years..." It should be: "I've been watching windows for years" :-)
Guess what? WFW 3.11? Win 9x? Djeezes... have you TRIED windows XP? Thats what the POINT is right HERE and now...
Not the crappy 'OS' called Win 9x
Greetz

Ya, I've been using Redhat Linux since version 4.1, but when 7 was released, with a s*** load of bugs, because they expected the Third 'Open source' Party to fix. I believe that was there biggest downfall, Also Linus is developing a kernel anymore, so people are going to try to mess up the base of the whole OS. I've been using Win2k since it came out and I am pretty damn satisfied. The advantage to Linux was security and stability. Now Windows has matched the stability. Needs work on Security. But needs less configuration so the process of setting things up is faster. Also for those people who says windows sucks, stop installing your crappy third party software and get rid of you "Made in Taiwan by little kids" hardware. CHECK COMPATABILITY LISTS! There is a reason they were created.

NOTICE THAT TEST-ONLY WINDOWS XP IS FOR NOT JUST TESTER BUT USERS THAT ARE WILL TO GIVE MICROSOFT MONEY TO DOWNLOAD THEIR CRAPY WINDOWS XP WITH THEIR 56KBS MODEMS.
Goto Microsoft.com and Find out that IT IS NOT A TESTERS ONLY THING IT IS FOR THE PUBLIC ONLY IF THE PUBLIC GIVES MS MONEY

Yeah, it's called a Preview Program. They did the same thing with Windows 98, and this does absolutely nothing to prove your point, assuming you had one. So XP beta is available to testers... yeah. So XP beta is available to the public if they pay for it... yeah. Still with me? And XP final will be available to the public... and they'll have to pay for it.

I think we can all rest easy tonight now that we have this all straightened out, right folks?

Hay , I dare you to try shareSniffer or Direct Connect
Sharesniffer uses IP addess with share files
and the other one just uses share folders in its Program
Direct Connect was or you can find the Whister and windows xp betas on it
or if someone is sharing files on their computer Sharesniffer will find them thou the net and on your computer

Imagine that... once again I have no friggin clue what you're talking about.
Here we go: I don't need to go through pirate sites to download XP, so I don't need your "help", friend. Also, I should make a clarification about the Preview Program. If you pay to obtain a beta, I believe you only get one copy... not Interim builds. Whether the copy you get is Beta 2, or whether they're going to wait until an RC build... I have no idea.

This is going to go on for quite some time, buddy... maybe it should just magically stop...

I think that Microsoft should NOT BE ABLE TO CHARGE MONEY FOR DOWNLOADING BETA's at all. I Think That if they really what people to
test their beta and send them back their error codes etc bugs in the windows xp.That they should let people download their betas for free with warning that beta build are not STABLE etc etc.. and that they will have many bugs (JUST BECAUSE Windows Xp is good DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY CAN CALL IT STABLE )IT IS A BETA SOFTWARE AND THEIR FOR IS NOT STABLE) IF IT WAS NOT A BETA THEN IT WOULD BE STABLE .Why in the Right Mind would they be charging peoples money for a NON-STABLE BETA that is not a Finial Project . I mean can they illegel do that charge money for a non-Stable non-Finial Product, just look at their homepage for it.(www.microsoft.com/windowsxp) they are trying to charge people money for a non-finial product,

Their should be a law against charging money for a product that is NOT FINISHED, just for MICROSOFT and Lets SEE THEM GO TO COURT AGAIN TO FIGHT THE LAW (BECAUSE YOU NO THEY JUST LOVE BREAKING THE LAW)

OW AND PEOPLE THAT HAVE 56kbs modems I really that willing to DOWNLOAD A OS that is more tham 100MB in file size
If they made it into more than one small file then 56kbs USERS MAY Get into the Beta Software program but I do not think downloading any file over 50MB is wruth their time, Because just download 50MB file takes all Day Long.
They do not even think of USERS with non-cable, non-Statlite,NON-DSL USERS like 56kbs USER that Downloading file more than 50MB in size would take them all week long to even get a Windows or Other Os system download. EVen if you have a good System like mine which is a 730mhz Pentium 3 computer with a Geforce 2 type card and a DVD + CD-ROM RW Drives that download anything over 50MB in size takes forever
I like Linux and it would be a good Os but I can not as of yet get on the net with it and Open-Source is a cool thing that gets products error free because any USER can then send in error to its makers , AND NO ONE REALLY WHATS ERRORS ANYWAY NOT HACKERS , NOT PEOPLE THAT GIVE OUT THEY BETA ID SO OTHER AND MICROSOFT GETS MAD BECAUSE ONE OF THEIR Offical TESTERS GAVE THE ID AND PASSWORD OUT TO THE PUBLIC.
I have not even try to download anything from the web sites that would post it because My computer could not even with winRight get files off the warez Sites AND HAVE ANYONE TRY TO GET THEIR FILES WITH Direct Connect Software , its it nice how other post the files then in one day change the login and etc not being able to download the files again because either the users logins off and Chages his or hers login name in Direct Connect

I Did Offical beta test Settlers 3 and send them errors in the gaming product but I would not EVER PAY FOR A BETA SOFTWARE THAT IS NOT FINISHED and I did not have to pay to beta Test Settlers 3

I just noticed that my last stuff I posted HAD MANY ERRORS LIKE ANY CURRENT WINDOWS IS STABLE NOT NOT .If Windows Was really Stable then they would not
BE COMING OUT WITH NEW VERSIONS AND TAKING MORE OF THE PEOPLES MONEY
Think about it where was Win311 then Windows 95 and them you had to upgrade to 98 and then they just came out with Windows ME which is more unstable than 98 and Know they WHAT YOU THE USERS TO CASH UP TO Microsoft MORE MONEY MONEY MONEY because WE ALL KNOW THEY LOVE YOUR MONEY AND THEY PUT THE BUGS IN YOUR WINDOWS SO THAT YOU HAVE TO UPGRADE AND GIVE THEM MORE MONEY, I MEAN COULD TO PROVE ME WRONG THAT MICROSOFT DID NOT MAKE THE ERRORS AND BLUE SCREENs OF DEATH. Just look at Linux its Newer than Microsft and its more stable and its better and faster than windows for the most Part, it may not be for Baby USERS BUT THEN WHO REALLY HAS NOT USED THE DOS PROMPT.Even thou its a Unix/Linux Prompt and its Linux Os Grafics are like thous of Windows .BUT I AM GETTING OFF SUBJECT Microsft is NOT AS GOOD AND HAS BEEN AROUND FOR YEARS AND THEY ARE LOOKING DOWN AT LINUX EVEN THOU LINUX IS THE BETTER OS SYSTEM AND IT CAN PLAY BOTH WINDOWS AND LINUX GAMES ON IT WITH 3D TOO. BUT YOU JUST CAN NOT BE A BABY USER TO USE LINUX .LINUX IS MADE FOR SMART USERS AND I NEED A BOOK TO CLICK ON START USERS.LINUX IS NEWER AND AS OF YET IS NOT FOR BABY USERS TO PLAY WITH BUT LEAST IT MORE STABLE THAN ALL BETA WINDOWS ETC.. 98,95,311 and XP & NT.I ThINK SINCE WINDOWS HAS BUGS IT SHOULD BE CLASSIFED AS BETA SOFTWARE AND SHOULD HAVE A NOT STABLE LABEL ON ALL WINDOWS VERSIONS.Because anything that was bugs is not a Full product and should be labeled a BETA SOFTWARE and even give it some OTHER TITLE LIKE WINCRASH and (Opps Win did it again).

Where do you people come from? Surely this is proof there is some form of life on other planets.
If someone wants to charge for software they have written they are allowed to charge for it wether it's alpha, beta or final. If you don't like it..DON'T PAY and most of all STOP WHINGING.

Also, it shouldn't take more than 40hours to download on a 56k modem, although separate smaller files would be helpful especially if you find there's an error in the file!

Finally..."Open-Source is a cool thing that gets products error free because any USER can then send in error to its makers"...how the hell do you base this ingenious claim? Anyone can send in bug reports...this is nothing new...and if you mean provide fixes...how about we hit reality for a change? How many users of software are 'savvy' enough to debug it in the first place, let alone understand the language it was written in and be able to write a fix for it? 0.00000001%? Or is that still a bit hopeful? Open-Source is no more and no less error free than any other software.

Ok,
First of all, if you really feel that you have anything to contribute, and want people to take your comments seriously, stop using caps. It's annoying. Also, try to form complete thoughts, they help get your point across.
Secondly, you don't have anything to contribute, and people will never take your comments seriously. Go away.

OK, just to yet you know anyone can do programing if they are good at math and know programing Landuages

it does not take programing and knowing the Landuages to send in Bug Reports, just wright down the error and infomation in the error box and send it into Microsoft or the beta product that you are testing

You go away,I am only in Eng 905 right know ,ow, I know I have a habit of doing long sentaces and spelling errors. I did not use a spelling Checking Program when writing.

What level of College English do you have?

Open-Source like Linux is cool and your an fool for thinking otherwise

What planet are you from Anyway, not one of thoses Aliens are From Rosewell are you? So when are you going home?ET?

OR
MAYBE YOU ARE FROM
Planet Of The Apples (HINT HINT)

He writes with his BIG crayons!

(I'd like to note that I read none of the drivel above.)

Anyhow, I agree with mikekol; Go away.

Your English wasn't really my point. Simply put, if you want people to take what you post seriously, don't do it in an annoying way, i.e. take your finger off the Caps Lock button, cowboy.

SEVEN UP YOURS
Don't you just like their Message

"anyone can do programming if they know programming languages..."
Amazing! Does that mean that anyone can do cooking if they know how to cook? And that anyone can do driving if they know how to drive? How does one come up with such brilliant unrefutable logic!

I never said you need to be a programmer to send in bug reports, but you can also send in bug reports to non open-source applications.

Also just to dispute, no not everyone who can program can go through, debug and patch software. Knowing VB won't help you much with C for instance. And not every programmer who codes in C can 'easily' (not the word 'easily') understand every other programmers code (which was also written in C. C is a good example of a language that can be quite cryptic if you write it in such a way.

First of all I really wish you'd READ what I wrote rather than blasting off and creating 3 meaningless messages. Try READING what I wrote. Secondly...when did I say open-source wasn't 'cool'?

Oh my god, how can one person be so annoying? this is just amazing. You sound just like a 14 year old linuxfreak bashing on about his 'open source makes everything better' crap. Is there some sort of website or book that teaches kids like you exactly what to say? 'Lesson 1 - "Spell Microsoft like so - M$"'.

On a serious note I think Microsoft charge for Beta releases to stop little 14 year olds getting their software and putting it on their homemade Warez sites and then blasting it because it is buggy. They are not going to get money from the likes of you anyway because when they release the final version of it you will probably pirate it.

personally i think the guy is very amusing :)
he cant really be trying to be serious can he?????
him and bootup should start a comedy show!

Open source doesnt mean problems are found and fixed any quicker. I have seen many security warnings about linux software that has been out for ages before someone discovers a buffer overload problem etc.

anyway isnt it time u were at nursery school?

oh and get ready for this one , linux is a joke

In Hell.

So, the public should not be made to pay for preview issues of their software! Why not? It costs Microsoft Broadband to supply it by download and it costs even more to make a CD and distribute it by mail. If you want a preview edition, why not pay the costs to distribute it? But the real question is "Why do you want a preview edition?" For some, it's just curiousity. Your curious, and you want to see whats comming in October. Why should you get this free? For others, the preview might be necessary. If you are a buyer for a large company, a preview can tell you whether or not you want to purchase the software when it becomes available. It's a lot cheaper to spend $10 or $20 on a preview than $200 on the real thing when it comes out. But most buyers won't have to spend $10 or $20. Microsoft will give them the preview at no charge. Myself, I wanted to know Win XP will work with my present equpment. Again, I need this knowledge to determine if I really want to spend the $90 or $100 bucks to upgrade from ME to XP when it comes out. I would gladly spend the $10 or $20 if it might save me from an even higher price in the future. The money spent on the preview is insurance, and good insurance at that. and if you think otherwise, you, sir, are a fool.

Ever Hear of free home pages and free websites like www.homestead.com?
Microsoft could post them on free home pages and then it would not have a money problem & anyway Do you think Bill Gates is getting any less Richer than he is? Because of leaking beta

I THINK NOT

Those 'free' websites, home pages, programs etc that you mention all work on the same principal......wait for it......ADVERTISING! That is how they can offer things for free. What? You thought that people are just giving you things for free out of their own pocket? There's a great way to go bankrupt!

"Do you think Bill Gates is getting any less Richer than he is?" ... oh! Great argument! People with money should give away things for free because they already have money! Maybe only rich people should pay taxes because they can afford them? How about you work your a** off to become rich and then we will see how you feel when people come to you and tell you you should give them things for free because you have money!

"JUST BECAUSE Windows Xp is good DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY CAN CALL IT STABLE )IT IS A BETA SOFTWARE AND THEIR FOR IS NOT STABLE) IF IT WAS NOT A BETA THEN IT WOULD BE STABLE"

hmmm strange that, i thought that stable means it didnt crash. so even if it is beta, if it doesnt crash then i'd call it stable - xp generally DOESNT crash - therefore by my definition it IS stable, beta or not.

Don't you mean buffer overflow? I've never heard of a "buffer overload"

Yes all OS's suck....Yes they are all great...Yes we all need a new one. I have used each OS as it comes out (Win, Linux, Unix) and have been able to get them all running...and each is very stable, I must add, not because they are sooooo good, but because I don't waste my time with the stupid flames you guys drag-on about. Put your brains to work instead, and you will find a use for all of them.

No company that actually understands technology will adopt Linux because it has no formal standards backing, and if your going to use Linux anyway, just get the real thing and use Unix. Windows is good because any idiot can use it...too bad Microsoft is a money-grubbing pig. If you know what your doing Windows is very stable.

I am still waiting for a new company to make an OS that combines a stable kernal, GUI interface, standards based development a low price (don't say Linux, because your wrong)....I will probably be better off on my boat in the Islands then waiting around here.

I would have debated the whole Linux thing a year ago, but it's dying. In the Unix based os systems the only thing looking promising is one based off of Free BSD. Even then it can't really compete with MS. When people complain about a blue screen, its probably user error and if they can do better I would like to see them try. When you start installing third party you lose your stability. Usually I would have to doubt it is ever really a problem with an OS, unless its DOS based, but third parties don't always follow standards. It usually the famous quote... "It works on my machine." Ya, but it doesn't work on mine. If people really want something to work and for it to be stable, Look at compatability. Besides most of the people that really have their "fire and brimstone" about windows are probably running windows still, because they know jack s*** about OS's and jack s*** about computers and the minute one small thing fails they have a s*** fit. Give OS's a break, ITS ALL USER AND THIRD PARTY. How often does your OS crash after a fresh install? Even if it does, its probably your s***ty cheap MADE IN TAIWAN hardware.

Its fun to see that more than half of you do not even know what you are talking about.
Microsoft probably does have a hard-on with all of the publicity it's getting about XP but is that any different than Win98? WinME? or Win2k? from what I remember EVERY build of these operating systems were leaked the very day they became available. XP has not seen the same.. Microsoft is pissed that XP is getting leaked we can see this because as yet NO version of build 2469 has been cracked.

but then I look around on other sites and hang out on IRC, I dont have my head stuck up my arse here so I can be party to the Windows/Linux flame wars you all seem to enjoy here.

My advice: get your facts right and while your at it get a life people who love Linux, good luck to them, people like me who prefer Windows, same goes for them too lets not be lame and flame ppl because they prefer something else

My 3 cents

2469 has been out for weeks, I'm on 2475. I know this because I work here.

if thats the case, then why isnt the newest build up for beta testers...lol? huh?... well, anyway, proove it.

oh, and of course, whys the dates on all the key files if not all the files say it was rescently pressed/compiled...anyway, im open for comments on this one.:)

The "newest" builds are never up for testers. If I recall correctly, MS does daily builds of Whistler, and not all of them are good ones. The builds that testers DO get have been found to be the most stable since the last interim build (most of the time), and have been put through a lot of stress-testing.

MS employees, however, have access to the most current builds.

Basically, each group of developers has there own build of Windows that they work on (UI team, networking team, IE team, etc...), and then there is the big master build which gets rotated through each team where they add the stuff that they've been working on on the teams individual build. Once that team finishes updating the master code, they have to get it validated, and signed off and whatnot, THEN they post it to the web.

Yeah right, it says 010504 as date on the dektop in build 2469.

Tell me where to email the screenshot or where to post it and it will be there and by the way im on 2477 now, I get the daily builds, beta testers don't

Actually your wrong there are 7 different builds. And the only way I would know this is..... Hope you figured it out by now.

kayler , just for curriousty sake email it to me at ilovespam@nc.rr.com preciate it...btw, did they readd dx into the build ur usin?

I'll bet you have a vanity license plate on your spree, don't you?

....why were so many people trying to download it and end up bringing Redmond servers down? It sounds to me like a lot of people must care a little bit about this operating system if so many were trying to download it.

Intersanctum.....

That's whats SO funny about this "claim"... The claim that "SOOOOOOO many people want this crap" is really just a Public Relations Scheme... Let me see if I can make it clearer for you.

Microsoft stock, sales, trust, products have deteriorated for some time now. In the industry we like to call them the "Cry Wolf" of technology. They cry "this OS is better" and like we all know after several months, the deterioration of the OS is clearly evident and the blue screen of death prevails!

So they hire a PR firm to help come up with "ideas" to help their DIEING MONOPOLY like "we left a open door... opps, and SOOOOOOOO many people want XP that it choked our servers from the demand..." what a load of crap!!!

Firstly, if there was a "door open" they opened it and were promoting it. Secondly, Microsoft uses bandwidth throttleing on thier 2000 servers, so there is NO WAY IN HELL of "choking the server". As a back up they also use a client connection limit and that can't be exceeded either. So "choking" is not even a possiblity - AT ALL! You should stop believing their propaganda.

To Micro$oft: Nice try liars, but your Wag-The-Dog didn't fool me... you still sell crap for too much money and more and MORE people are switching to the TUX...

Micro$oft... fear the ice walkers!

Go Linux or Go Home!

Hey moron I don't see my stocks going down. Even before this little break in. Its gone from 50 - 70+ thanks for you useless input.

huh? u reading some sci-fi novels to get your "facts"?

the fact of the matter is that by the end of the year, 7/10 linux companies will be out of business since they cant make money... rest of the just barely survives since they got lot of cash from their IPO's... most of them will be dead by the end of next year... why? because linux ppl dont like to pay for their software... so, you get what you pay for baby...

Who let the linux people in on this conversation? Isn't this about beta leaking?
Just a comment on those that swear by linux as well..
Why are you building shells that look like windows anyway?
Every flavor of linux has a "Windows" type shell!
Wondered a little to far off the road and trying to find your way back home?..... Windows 2000 Rules!

yeah, and windows was a real brainstorm of bill gates. i swear, people who bash linux because "X is just a rip-of of windows" make me laugh. Yeah microsoft stole pretty much everything in their repitoire and whatever they couldn't steal without being blatantly obvious they just bought.

Im glad Microsoft has problems with hackers etc. and im glad beta tester are pissed (i think they should get a life, its ok to test a beta, but piss only because someone else hacked it is childish) and i would like to see crackers to develop something versus that stupid locks... I dont know why ppl still use that crappy OS, ok, you say "its great, bla bla bla, never crash, bla bla bla"... well, keep paying for it, i will stay with my never crash always fast OS (linux) without paying a penny, good luck to you brainless ppl.

LinuxPen....

Nice to see someone else here who loves the /tux and laughs at the fools in here who buy or steal the latest and crapiest Windows version on the market.

And this all happens because their IQ's are under 50 and they are too stupid to run a /tux box. They whine about stability, yet they continue to use the worst beta consummer, over priced, bad code ridden, piece of crap like Windows (95 and on).

For a few dollars (or free), and some hard work, a man could have a Linux system rock his universe of stability and wake them up to the reality, that Microsoft is in the business of building unstable, bloated OS's so that they can sell the same crap later (under a new name) for hundreds/thousands of dollars. All the while PR'ing and lieing to the world about it's "stability" and that it is the "most important Windows release to date", like they say everytime. Microsoft is like a cult, and people need to demand quality for the dollar, but they whine and don't. In a word... Pathetic.

And before all you pathetic windroids comment, realize two things. 1. Microsoft has tried for years to hire Aussie Linux Hackers who to date have told Microsoft to shove it. Why? 2. Because Microsoft HAS or WANTS to develope Linux because they KNOW it's STABLE. Microsoft recently attacked the Tux, because they want to develope it, but not then release the source code!! They are trying to discredit the Tux, while spending their wakeing hours trying to go Linux and save face from the embarrassmnet and bowing to the real god TUX! To bad Micro$oft no Linux monopoly available, GNU License applies....

Billy... fear the ice walkers...

Go Linux or Go Home!

1. these are not hackers, having a testers login and password is not hacking.

2. I'm sure everyone is glad that you're happy using your free os as much as I am sure that the majority of people on this news site never have and are unlikely to 'pay' for any os wether it's made by Microsoft or not.

3. You don't know why people use Windows? Well for a linux user you don't seem to be too switched on. let me give you a quick refresher course. Some use it because it's made easy enough for a child to use, others use it because they love to play games and the majority of games (at least the 'good' ones) are available only on windows or a console. Others use it because there is such a huge software library available for windows meaning they can just about get any application they need to do whatever they may want to do. And the last few use it because they honestly couldn't be bothered installing linux, setting it up, making sure it's configured correctly, always making sure they have the latest patches installed, recompiling their kernel etc etc etc especially since they just want a computer to use at home. Those people don't feel a need to install linux on their computer just so they can go around calling everyone brainless/stupid/moronic/etc for running Windows because they're so good they managed to install linux.

4. I have no idea why the beta testers are upset, it's not like it screws up anything for them. Maybe they are jealous that someone other than an official tester is playing with the latest version of Windows. Maybe it's something completely different. In any case there's no point getting upset because the entire warez community has been getting leaked copies of Windows builds since before Windows 95. If someone wants to play with the latest beta (as I have in the past), let them, they're not hurting the 'official' testers.

5. There has been a crack out to bypass/deactivate the Activation inside Win XP for every build that has been released/leaked and although it is quite a crude crack, it does work. What this will mean for the final version? Not much, the warez community will release the final copy with a serial that automatically bypasses the Activation (as was the case with Office XP), and they will release some form of crack for it as well and the Corporate Version without Activation in it will be released as well.

you are so right on target...

Ahhhh, there is nothing quite like the rantings of clueless zealots preaching about the idiocy of other people. Perhaps you are just jealous that windows users have their pick of any and every type of software and hardware they wish and (finally) getting a stable and reliable OS?

Wow. Yeah, It seems that someone really likes their 3 programs that can be used on Linux. That and tux (whom makes it all worthwhile...).

Wow, look at the flaming on OS of choice. Linux users you have a point and so does us WinOS users. Linux maybe more stable than WinOS, it might be more powerful then WinOS or user of Linux might be smart than us WinOS user. On the flip side, WinOS has more commerical software being use by the industry than Linux, WinOS is ez to use and it is made this why because the general public do not have the type of computer skills needed to install and run complex OS like Linux.
IMHO, both os have their pluses and minus. Windows and Linux are both complex, hard to install, diffical to config, and certain apps are only to each respected os. Come on folk we are on the same team..wanting that perfect os. Neither is Windows and Linux, so in the mean time, everyone should repect each other. I have installed Linux and it is indeed hard to install and config, but once it is done Linux is one of the many powerfull os on the market. I am a Windows user and esp with Win2K, the install and config is not that ez either. All you Linux user just be proud that u are able to use Linux and backoff! If you want Win user to switch to Linux or see how great Linux then show us, prove to us, dont insult us. I don't insult Linux user but repect them and try to convince other Win users the same.

Were pissed because they flooded the freaken download servers.

What is all this talk about the unstability of Windows?? My copy of Windows 2000 hasn't crashed yet. I've been running it for 2 months, 24-7. No problems and works with all of my software. I have worked with OS's and hardware now for about 15 years(Computer Hardware Technician), yea I know I'm an old timer, but I have never seen an OS more of pain in the a** than Linux when it comes to installing. Even NT4 was less complicated and I didn't like NT4 at all. If all I wanted to do is browse the web and check my email, maybe Linux would be a good option. But if it requires a PHD in Quantum Physics just to install it, what's the point? The so-called pluses of Linux just don't justify. I gues you're right you get what you pay for.
Only my professional opinion. :-)

yeah, it was great yanking it at 240k/s :P

3 programs? get a clue

listen ok ... i Love the fact that linux is Stable ... but i also love Microsoft's GUI ... ok ok ok i know what you're thinking ... it might be unstable and crash a lot .. but as a GUI it ROCKS ... amd that's why people use windows over linux .. now ... take KDE and GNOME and look at them ... you're gonan tell me they're as user-friendly and simple as the windows gui? .. start menu, a couple od quicklinks a taskbar and a system tray .. now THATS a gui ... not 6 million icons showing you cpu usage and stuf .. i mean i know its good to have and it would be cool to be able to add these things .. but for the general population how may of us care how much cpu usage we use up .. i mean cmon id rather have my 5% of desktop space back thank you very much ... i mean i tried linux ... and the one turn off i had with is is the GUI ... the windows GUI (windows 2000 and windows XP ala plain vanilla setting) is head over heels better than KDE and/or GNOME...

now here's what i tell you ... build a freakin gui on linux that is like the windows gui and then and only then will linux appeal to the masss market ... once we get that don then we could try and improve upon it by gettting user feedback etc.

o my cry out to the open source world has been made ... now gather yourselves up and lets get the ball rolling for crying out loud ... KDE and GNOME will NOT take us there ...

please post your feedback.

That's nice and all, but the fact is, Windows doesn't crash.

freaky right...
give it a try to crash a WinXP, in BETA!!
I couldn't do it...

I haven't been able to do it yet... In any of the builds... Its like "wow! this is a beta???"

Whistler/WindowsXP is very stable even in beta, and has a *lot* more going for it than just its user interface. All the programs written for it are 100x better than linux.

On onther topic, speaking of pirates, I would consider Microsoft a pirate for doing things like charging $597 for OfficeXP, yet university students in California can buy it for only $84. That in my opinion is a pirate... I love most Microsoft products, but its things like that which do nothing but promote/justify warez all the more.

And now with this activation crap, it will add all the more fuel to the fire.

I have been able to get a stop error once. All I had to do was connect to a network drive...then try to dial in to another server. When it dials in, I get the stop error every time. I have reported the error to Microsoft. Obviously, if you are not connecting your machine to a network, this error would never come up...so most of the beta testers are not experiencing this problem....

:-)
I use Windows XP in a network with a NT4 server and a win 95 (soon win NT4 workstation)... Haven't got any probs with it...
had a stop error 2 today... Totally my fault! Installed zonealarm and its incompatible because the build in firewall, the OS gave me the warning but... :-)
greets
Robbeke

Excluding build 2469, XP has been great.

And yes, I do use a network in a domain structure, PDC is actually Win2002 Advanced Server Beta2.

man, i love microsoft.

why are all these retards happy they got a BETA build? Why are you so proud of something thats just gonna be gone in a number a days? When You Crack The BetaSite When you get a OFFICIAL Release Then Come Bragging.. Get A Life!!

Obtaining the OFFICIAL release will be just as easy as getting the beta one...

I am actually suprised that this sort of thing doesn't happen more often. I know many testers that 'trust' people on the net that they have been in contact for a while with their ID/Passwords. I do have to wonder if the tester inadvertantly gave out the information or someone's email was hacked,because speaking as an 'official' tester,you would have to be quite stupid to willingly give out your ID/Password to the warez community. One thing that has always pissed me off about MS is that every email they send you reguarding an 'official' beta announcement, they send your ID/Password in plaintext at the top of the Email.
Reminds me of when I first started getting into beta's,when someone leaked a winbeta account in jan/feb '97 and I spent 20 hours downloading a build of Windows 98 :)

MindWalker

BTW good ole boyz basically refers to a side of our government
who was not only ignorant but also the cause of quite a bit of
pain and discomfort before they were lynched. Just an observation

I was there

i was there too....and i have it cracked so hahahaha. i can use it for over 14days and the 180day limit is bypassed too...thats if i want to use it that long, i'll have another build before that.

Good For You!!! And hopefully you will be stuip enough to get on the web with the system you have it installed in. The OS has quite a few Big Brother Tools in it. Us developers know that for a fact, and there a no work arouds. Change 1 thing..like an IRQ, or Video card
your pedagree is re-sent along with other identifying items. oh yes, it even sends the raw ip less any masking you may think you have!
Remember the black square in bootleg cable boxes...ooops...better stop before I violate my EULA as a developer but I can only say USER BEWARE.

idiot.
no work arounds? there are cracks for the activation issues (replacement winlogon.exe etc). I wasnt aware that it regularly calls home, infact people have said specificly that it does NOT. and so what if it does? just see what its trying to do and block it with your firewall.

Shut up.

WOW!!!!
You are SO elite!!! You are a GOD among hax0rs!!! Will you please, please, PLEASE be my friend?!?

Get a friggin' life...

beware? of your stupid posts? we shall....

The real question is are you really going to need a MS release for 180 days. I mean damn, by that time i am sure microsoft will be offering thier new XP2003 just so they can keep the cash flowing in.

The best part is that the Beta of XP only works for 14 days unless you activate it. When you activate it it submits information to Microsoft as to the 3 W's (who,what,and where) so unless you want to reload it time after time enjoy it for 14 days. I know that all IP's are logged at the servers and the download manager sends other pertinant info about you to the server. Who knows who the next knock on the door might be from???

You think the people that downloaded it don't already know that? Duh. That's what the crack is for. If your stupid enough to download the beta and not use the crack then you deserve to get caught.

activate it? oh purrrrrrrrrrrrrlease! u think people using not so legit copies are going to activate???? duh!

Try looking around your local Best Buy (or other computer store) around the end of October. They will trade you very kindly for about $100. Good Luck!

Trade 9x for the (MP and RI) Association of America operating system? Thanks, but no. I'll keep the s***ty old 98se until XP is hacked to bypass any/all of the damned protections they've surely applied. Also, the MS driver lockdown, too. That's a pain I would rather not deal with. Also, I don't want to regularly pay for a product I already have. I like purchasing my software once, not leasing it for the rest of my life. Too bad so many others are willing to hand over their cash like this.
Wow, only slightly off topic....

The piraters deserve what they got this time around, as 2469 has tons of problems with Dx, and people are having problems with BSOD's from the XP drivers not working correctly.

That is not the point. The point of these people getting this winxp beta is simply for the thrill of having it when they're not "supposed" to have it.

How can you say that's not the point when this is my own comment, not a reply to anyone....

I think YOU missed the point.

Look, at the end of the day, what are you losers hoping to gain ????
I hate to blow my own trumpet, but us beta testers do a good job. If you lamers leave us to it, and stop going after leaked builds, we can get on with our jobs in peace. You lot complain that a certain build is s***, fair enough, but there is a good reason for this... it is not meant for general use. Stop chasing unfinished goods, and dont expect the whole lot to work... jees !

I am proud to be an *official* tester... I know my job and I do it well.... so leave us to it and lets make an even better final release without you lot wasting our time.

Richard

Well stated!

Exactly!

Why don't pirates use all their self-proclaimed "talent" for officially testing software for the masses? Because they are all lazy a** arm chair warriors who would rather complain while pulling their star trek t-s***s back down over their fat bellies than actively getting involved in the software community to help improve the very products they complain about!

That is what WE are trying to do and you pirates are stopping us. Go to the living room, sit back and watch Hackers for the 120th time and don’t interfere with our work. We will make sure Microsoft does the best that they can to improve your computer-lifestyle so you’ll never have to worry about things like “human contact” again.

When a MS build is crapy, it's beta software, not meant for the general public. When e.g. a mozilla build is crapy, it's due to it's design... I don't get it anymore...

Alright, I admit I download every beta that comes out from IRC and ftp's, etc...I don't say Micro$haft and stuff like that, I like Microsoft a lot. I even submit bugs and stuff after I install it. The only reason I get them in an illegal manner is because I wasn't invited to be a beta tester for whistler. I submitted tons of e-mails and everything but I wasn't invited...so this is the only way I could get my hands on each build. I don't mean any harm to anything, I am just really interested in testing OS's.

I'm not a loser or anything, future operating systems just spark my interest so I will do anything to get them. Hopefully I become a tester for Blackcomb(Windows MAX)...I submit an e-mail for that every day plus I have my MCSE so I will hopefully be able to test it.

The ends do not justify the means. If you were not invited to be a beta tester for Windows XP, tough cookies. If you get upset about that then you need to seek therapy, and quick.

Like the e-mail that they give you says, apply for it only ONCE.

Besides, they have the Preview Program.

Because Mozilla has been in development for years and is very close to release... it SHOULD be mostly working, I mean... heck, this is an open source product, it should be flawless by now, shouldn't it?

How long has Microsoft been developing Windows (NT)? You would expect it to be flawless as well...

There's a big difference between bugs and design flaws. Probably the #1 complaint about Mozilla is its long load time, which is due to its design.

1) MS has been working on different version of WindowsNT for awhile, not the same exact one like Mozilla (1.0)

2) If the software is written by a human, or if it runs on a system that built by a human, then it will ultimatly have flaws... plain and simple.

This is so funny. You would think this was the first time something like this happened. The fact of the matter is, this has been going on since Win98 SE was in beta. Hell I would even go so far to say, I bet even MS employee's leaked there own betas to the net. Big deal on betas. Now when a final release gets leaked. Thats when I bet MS gets REAL concern. Beta's are just for tighening the grip they have.

Why not sign up for the preview program? It is a "legal" way to get your hands on the better builds of Windows XP. If you want illegal copies of XP, try warez newsgroups. This is not the place. Do not pass go, do not collect two-hundred dollars.

Good grief, all you *official* beta testers need to get a life. I can LEGALLY download these beta releases all damn day from NUMEROUS LEGAL places. Stop acting like you and you alone are the ones who can *legally* download a M$ beta...what a joke hehehe

If you can legally download and use it, then fine, we don't give a rats ass.

But when the piraters start doing it, that's when it starts pissing us off... and yes, it is illegal, you do have to have a license to use the software.

you say 200$? I think it's just 20$ or so... u should check that one. And I don't think thats really BIG money... If you can't pay that you should sell your computer to buy good food... :o)
I regret but I use a warez version of WinXP too. If they would make the public preview available to other country's (like they did with Office XP) then US and Canada I allready had one of these... Can't understand why they don't do that this time...
All my other software (WinNT4, Win98, Win95, Vstudios, Win 2K, Office 2K and office XP) are licensed products...
I really want to get knowledge about the things to come and how it works... I keep checking the public preview site and I hope that they make it available to non-us countrys...

Btw: Microsoft and WinXp rulez!

Greetz

since everyone assumes all we do is watch hackers, I will quote the movie:

"Bla bla bla, get a job!"

In the mean time quit worrying so much about what other people are doing. If you are doing a good job, then be proud of it. But I swear, so many people here are just anal-retentive sef-righteous pricks and are always soooo concerned about what so and so is doing.

my sentiments on this subject is, if it hadn't happened, then we wouldn't have anything here for the whiners to whine about...:)

It looks likes another win for Warez.

Micro$haft ain't gonna beat the Hackers & Pirates!!! What a wonderful bunch of guys.

You're pathetic! It doesn't take a hacker or pirater to be an idiot who gives away their login information!

What an ass: "another win for warez"? If someone gave out their id and password, then Microsoft was not hacked or cracked. Let me know when you learn the difference between invited access to Fort Knox and breaking in (it has yet to happen).

Yes, I know this wasn't a great "hack" or anything. But still it will be on the FTP's soon for our downloading pleasure.

Uncle Billy Boy Gates & Micro$haft have surely made their last dime from me and my family & friends. He has all of the money that he needs. I also love the fact that Sam Walton Jr beat him out this time on the richest man. Go Wal-Mart!!!!

Warez still Rulez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me an Ass? Ok Crackerhead. You say what you want, but the end fact is MicroShaft was compromised, and they lost their Beta

Might want to check the facts: Bill Gates is STILL the wealthiest single person. Sam Walton's includes family wealth (spouse, children, etc.).

Umm, my favorite thing about people like you is you say "Microsoft sucks! I hate Micro$haft...." and blah blah blah...but you still use the product right? SO use all the cool little buzz words you want with the $'s and all that. Point is you are just trying to sound cool. Grow up.

And this leak has nothing to do with Microsoft in case you can't read. Some idiot beta tester decided it would be great to blow his NDA and give out the login. It hardly takes a "hax0r" to do that.

Haha, well... this also happens to be one of the crappiest beta builds released.

Listen Crackerhead. Last week's new list on CNN showed Sam Walton Jr to be #1, and Bill Gates to be #2. AYou're the one who needs to check out the facts.

im kind of out in the dark on that too.. kids talk about micro$oft and how mucht hey hate bill gates and they "hack" into their site.. which didnt happen if the password was just given out... and then proceed to DOWNLOAD AND INSTALL the flagship product of the very same company they just got done making fun of and mocking.. makes no sense to me. im not gonna say MS is perfect or their OS is perfect.. but its the best thing out there TODAY and probablly for some time to come as well.. so stop your griping or go compile your kernel or something...

ZZ, rather than start calling other 'crackheads', why don't you read the updated version of that story which does mentioned that they f*cked up majorly in the counting and that Bill Gates was never in any danger of losing his no. 1 position. Like diaphanein said, Sam Walton's total included all of his family wealth rather than just his own.

Uhh... no they didn't.

The Register made a news article saying that Sam Jr. had become the richest, but, as usual, they didn't check the facts. It's Sam + all his brothers put together that makes them richer than Bill Gates.

I didn't call him a crackhead. I called him a crackerhead. There is a difference.

if you hate your life do you just decide to stop using it? Some do, some don't.

Whats with all these "stupid" posts about microsoft not being secure then the next guy getting upset like he owns micrsoft and another guy bragging that he beta tests for a hardware manufacturere. Big deal! The issue is taht someone gave out/leaked their login and password to the microsoft beta site. big deal it was bound to happen.

Well, we all knew microsoft was insecure, this story more then prooved it....lol, my hat to all the people who managed to download the new windows XP directly from microsoft...:)

Beta testers sign an agreement not to let out any information. If some idiot decides to leak that info (like the password maybe) to the entire world, it's not the fault of MS, and there's not much anyone can do to stop it. It's unfortunate that one can no longer depend on anyone to keep their word about anything. Maybe MS should just stop releasing public betas. They won't because that's the best way to reliably test their products, but that's the only way they can be sure of it not getting out.

I agree. I beta test hardware for a major manufacturer. If I leaked details ahead of public release they would have my hide and it would be the end of my beta testing career. Beta testing is a privilege not a right, and one not be taken like lightly.

"we all knew microsoft was insecure" .....
Where do I begin? ....
1) We did?
2) How the HELL does someone having a valid login and password prove that microsoft is insecure?
3) Furthermore, how does it prove that microsoft is insecure based on the fact that the valid login and password was not hacked etc but rather given out by a tester?

Maybe you gave the information out...

You call him an idiot if you want, but I call him a fine citizen and a good ole boy.

You just go right ahead and give Micro$haft your hard earned money or your Welfare funds. I know where to get mine.

Thanks Bill for the free Win ME, Win 2K Pro, Win Xp, Office 2000 and now Office XP, and the list goes on & on.

you know if we would all be smarter.. we woulden't be beta testers and microsoft or any other compagnie would need to pay us for this job !!!

Yeah, Micro$haft should quit releasing public betas. They should just open-source Windows instead. Problem solved, for BOTH sides.

A lot (I won't say all or most, because I'll have someone down my throat asking for statistics that prove that it is in fact all or most!) of beta testers get 'paid' by getting a copy of the final release for free, wether it be software or hardware, and seeing as some software costs a lot to buy brand new, this isn't exactly a bad deal especially seeing as a lot of beta testers most likely do a half asses job of testing.

ER, yeah- MS should be "forced" to open source all their software, thus taking them out of the software business, just so *everyone* can use MS software for "free". Really good thinking.....

Can someone explain to me this mornic notion a lot of people seem to have these days that all the software companies should release their products as open-source? Why the hell should any company release their flagship or any other product for that matter as open-source?

I can really see Adobe thinking, well we are making a hell of a lot of money off Photoshop...but since all these nice open-source people have asked, we will release it as open-source.

If you want to write open-source software, go for it, but don't go around saying that other companies should be releasing their applications as open-source.

Adobe is another that their stuff is all free also.

Warez Rulez...

Every single mainstream application and every single game is warez'ed, that's common knowledge. And in actual fact it's fairly
difficult to find any English program written that hasn't been warez'ed.

My point was about open-source not warez.

I think BETA Testers are very important to a products development... they help the programmers to find and fix a LOT of bugs which you and I would rip hell about if we encounter them after buying/copying the final release. And then you'd want to bad-talk the makers of the program and say how they have no idea WHAT they're doing... well I would like one of you guys write an operating system as good as Windows 3.1 FROM SCRATCH!!! Cuz that's where it started.

So leave Bill Gate$ and "Redmond" the **** alone... without them, WHERE would you be?

True, their prices are too outrageous, but say what... they have the friggin monopoly so they can do it.

Last I checked:
3D Studio Max 4 wasn't cheap
Adobe Photoshop 6 wasn't cheap
Adobe Premier 6 wasn't cheap
Protel 99SE wasn't cheap
Oracle Database wasn't cheap

Maybe you should learn some Finance, less to do with Monopoly, more to do with supply/demand and the price people are willing to pay for certain software.

If XXX people weren't about to pay ZZZ dollars for a piece of software it wouldn't sell, since it is that price it is obviously selling and most likely quite well. Why would you sell your product for $50 when you can sell it for $5000 ?

For one, we would probably be alot better off without Bill Gates and his monopoly. We would be living in a world of UNIX based operating systems that are stable, fast and reliable, things that ALL MS products are not.

Second, Windows 3.1 was not good, if it was, it would be running on desktops today.

Finally, beta testers are allright, but Microsoft needs to employ more of a diverse market of testers. I see it like this, it is very simple. Look at Windows 95, 98, 98SE and even 2000, they all have bugs. If there beta testers are so damn good, why didn't they catch these bugs? Aparently the beta testers they are using are really just sitting around with their finger in their ass, just as you are.

Just my $0.02

-- jw

Another one that has never coded in their life....point me to a single application (sizable application not a hello world program) that does not have a SINGLE BUG in it. What your UNIX based os' don't have bugs? Don't make me laugh! They have as many bugs in them as any other piece of software.

actually if you think about this, we all owe xerox for invinting the mouse and gui that gave us windows and such, not bill gates.

Well moron, for one, I am a coder. I have written several programs in different languages, but that is not what we are discussing here.

The UNIX based operating systems have far less bugs. Why? Because testing is open to ANYONE. Look at ANY BSD OS and you will see that you can download the src from CVS at any time and test it. But Microsoft, NO! I can't test it unless I apply to be a beta tester and get approved which is 100% grade a BULLs***!.

But at the same time, development is in many cases open to anyone. More developers = more bugs.

Thats not true, what do you think hackers are,microshaft bug exsposers

MAC OS rules and you all suck.

You are a coder? Bet you write code that doesn't have any bugs in it =) Then again if you do write code with bugs in it, your whole comment would seem rather ironical don't you think?

"The UNIX based operating systems have far less bugs." ... oh I would love to see the proof for this one! Not that I am any great MS lover or lover of any one particular software company (except maybe NuMega) but as a developer I find this so called 'fact' a little hard to swallow. Testing being open to anyone has never proven that the *nix based OS' have less bugs. They have just as many as any other application that is relatively the same size in code and complexity.

Now if you had said that as a result of being open-source, the turn around time for fixing bugs is shorter, then maybe there is some truth to that.

Oh and you still didn't point me towards that amazing not-a-single-bug program.

ow no...
first we got those linuxfreaks over here, now the same type of iq-less person only he uses Mac OS...
Go home with your too expensive Mac... Your problem is you can't work with a pc and maybe you can a little with a mac...
You DEFINITLY don't know how a windows machine works...

You may have your mac... I say windows XP rulez...

Why are u over here? It's about a leaked beta, not about Macintosh..

hehe stick a mouse with more than one button in front of him, that will shut him up while he tries to figure out how to operate it :)

:-)
looool...

After reading several points on here it just struck me as some of the responses were saying their OS is better than yours (like we did when we were all kids..mine is better than yours.) Bottom line folks is whether ANY OS is buggy faulty crappy a loser whatever...you are able to use "that" OS to make your comments. I can remember back in the early 80's when there wasn't anything known as a OS to complain about. Life has it faults. We try to do the best that we can. If you don't like something, then try to make it better. Standing there pointing fingers at someone else accomplishes what? Nothing. Complain about who's in office but you don't vote. How can you? Saying Windows 9(X) NT 2000 XP LINUX whatever....what how YOU done to make it better? Believe me I have had my fair share of crash and burn, but at least I told someone who is involved to see if it can be corrected and improved. As they say point a finger at someone, 4 are back at you. Instead of having a piss contest, why don't you email call write to the people that make these OS's and tell them what is wrong and improve it. Nothing in this world is at perfection. Do you do your job each and every day to perfection? Do your co-workers? Does the company you work for? No. But with CONSTRUCTIVE COMMUMICATION we can strive to make it better. Or we can just give up, whine since we don't know better, and be in a closed narrow-minded community and live like the animals in the book Animal Farm.

i have mac0Sx on my commodor 64 and it owns! its not slow and graphical like linux with stupid internet explored or text based with ansi color muds like windows that uses perl n s***. I heard windows Cement was comming out soon and i think i might get that/.1 but also im a hacker so ill hack u with my c:\format c:\ hack in windowsnt cause windowsnt has great dos support which means directary of service attack on the mainframe OS. Some of you n00bies maybenot know what im talking bout cause ur n00bs and OJ can hack more then u hahahah hack hack hack on Nicole ouch! so if you want linux with the dumb mp3 program like napingater that downloads mp3s from that windows server or something witht he beta testering. then get that, ummmm mac0sx rules because it has great cd-rw support which i use to burn illegal copies of WormS Amegeddon and burn illegal coppies of "Linux ME" which i distribute at a local warehouse, dont make me own u some mpore bia*** wit ur microsoft redmon apache web processors using perl intsead of 1 and 0 damn newbs.