over 1000 titles initially supported on EU PS3's

Not too shabby, and over 3 times the amount of titles the 360 supports in backwards compatability, even after a year of developing the 360 emulator..

Link please, seeing as Sony themselves said they wouldn't release the list until March 23rd I'd love to see your source.

Nevermind it's been popping up all over now. That is impressive, I'll be completely floored if they can incorperate up-resed graphics a** well as rumored here.

Hmm, I'll wait for price to go down first.( It happens quick, they can't sell lot with that price they have now )

Conclusion:
Well I'm waiting for my Final Fantasy anyway ^^ . I think the best choice is to buy PS2 (Full game support and almost all have it alrdy) and wait until PS3 has price more reasonable.

Ain't 'dat a pissa'

Seriously, if your that concerned, just get the US version.

oh yea.. I totally want to pay double the money for less than a fraction of the same product everyone else gets.. cos lets be honest.. atm the MAIN thing about PS3 is playing older games.. theres not much for PS3 worth spending a dime on yet..

Double the money???

The price in the EU, is the same as in the US, once you factor import duties and sales taxes (17.5%)

Double the money???

The price in the EU, is the same as in the US, once you factor import duties and sales taxes (17.5%)

- Typical fanboy shill BS.

This lying sack of horse was taken apart nicely in a recent Guardian blog, enjoy viral marketeer idiots......

Sony: it's not our fault PS3 is expensiveBy Bobbie Johnson / Gaming 12:01pm

In this week's Technology supplement, Steve Boxer takes a look at why the PlayStation 3 is so expensive for British customers - and asks Sony Computer Entertainment UK boss Ray Maguire what the reasons are. Maguire flips between the usual suspects; VAT, currency valuation and

"There's a compulsion within the media to look at everything as a snapshot, and do a calculation, normally based on just the RRP in somewhere like the US and just the RRP in the UK. What you should do with the RRP from the US is add sales tax."

But as Boxer points out, UK VAT would take the RRP to just £352 (*compared to the £425 they want to charge).
So instead, Maguire says that it's actually too easy to compare RRPs without taking into account corporate currency management.

"When businesses trade, they hedge. It depends what currency you're buying against. We don't buy anything in dollars, so the dollar can go up and down. If it were $1.40 to the pound as it was a while ago, then the PS3 would be a bargain compared to the US; if it's anything more than that, the UK price appears to be comparatively expensive. But we're dealing with euros and yen - it's about the relationship between those currencies."

From the figures I'm looking at, the last time the dollar was $1.40 to the pound was six years ago (less than a year after PS2 was released).
Maguire also blames high living costs and staff expenses in the UK (as opposed to, say, Japan?!).

Update: Over on the Gamesblog, commenter Graham says "The GBPUSD exchnge rate ... has only been below this level on 15 days in the last 16 years."

Anyway, here's the point: the PS3 is hugely expensive, and more so in the UK than anywhere else it's is being released. Why can't Sony - and all the other companies who cash in on "rip-off Britain" - admit that it's simply the price that the company believes we will pay for the machine?

http://blogs.guardian.co...t_ps3_is_expensive.html

You can get the 360 and the Wii for only $50 more than the PS3 (although the Wii does come with Wii Sports, so I think it makes it even).

Plus the 360 has more games than the PS3 and has better online (more people to play with). I still don't get why there's still Sony fanboys.

Unfortunatly, people also forgot:

Import Duties (7% in the UK for Entertainment goods)

Support costs (EU has many more languages, and this costs money to support)

Warranty costs, EU is 12 month warranty by law.

All of these cost money..

The USA might not have a 'formal' VAT but they do have state taxes and federal taxes.
Basically everybody has some sort of sales tax.

.....and the truth is they're selling them in Japan at half the price they're expecting in the UK & EU.

Like I said, cue a very short fanboy rush then stalled sales like everwhere else.

Then price cuts.

US Sales tax ~5%, UK VAT 17.5%, plus there are import duties into the country.

You can try & spin away but you'll never 'justify' the 100% higher price they're charging in the UK & EU when compared to Japan.

......and why would you even bother trying?
Are you on the payroll, shilling for them?

It doesn't matter how you do the math, the numbers just don't add up. No matter how many taxes or extra costs you factor in, the PS3 should still not come out to double the price for Europe. Why? Let's look at the launch prices of the Xbox 360 premium.

Launch price in USA: $399.99
Launch price in Europe: €399.99
Launch Price in Britain: £279.99

Although there was a price gap between the US and European launch prices, it's nowhere near the kind of gap Sony is trying to stick you with for the PS3.

Sony is a company that never ever learns a lesson. The PS3 is not doing so hot in Japan or the USA. So what does Sony do? They downgrade the PS3 specs and upgrade its price for the European launch. I'm sure the console will sell like hot cakes for the first couple of weeks, until all the rich fanboys get their fill. After that, no one will touch these overpriced monsters.

Trivia: When in the history of video games has a company whose console was not doing so well increased its price in order to sell more?

(Answer: NEVER)

Launch price in Australia: $999. :P

And you think Europe got screwed? Now we find out we need to maintain our PS2 as well to play old games. Way to go, Sony. Only a mug would buy a PS3, IMO.

No, it's just some people seem to think that Sony are making more from European PS3 customers than US customers, which is totally untrue..

In Japan they have had 'sale' prices of £169 = €253 = $329 US.

The 'regular' price in Japan is £208 = €316 = $412 US - which is still half what we're expected to cough up.

http://kotaku.com/gaming...-20gb-prices-230297.php

£425 = €599/€647 = $840 US is what they're looking to charge us.......and Greece just got a higher price tag for some reason.

€659 = £ 442 = $863US.

http://www.gamesindustry...tent_page.php?aid=22975

Total rip-off.

I bet you grin & say 'thank you Sir can I have some more' as they bend you over SA.

They are. If they change the money into dollars, then oops, they have more money than they do when selling it in the US.

Go back to school and study economics, you will then understand perfectly...

"Greece just got a higher price tag for some reason."

You do now that each EU member state has different taxes? There is your anwer in one simple sentence..

WII is a Gamecube with a new controller, no thanks.

360 is a unreliable hunk of junk, with nothing but a handful of vaguely decent games after a year, and even then, those games are not excatly stellar. Gears Or War, 5 hours gameplay, give it a rest.. No wonder all the Xbox fanboys have spare time to post their Sony hate on the internet..

Oh, and to put quash to another ex-box fanboy rumour, PS3 games are considerably cheaper than ex-box games...

http://www.gamesindustry...tent_page.php?aid=23047

Go back to school and study economics, you will then understand perfectly...

- Keep your pathetic & tedious little insults to yourself and try a little extra thought yourself, cos you clearly don't understand this at all.

You do now that each EU member state has different taxes? There is your anwer in one simple sentence..

- Ok then, let's hear it economics genius, tell us where you know where anyone incurs shipping costs & a tax regime that justifies a doubling of the price between Japan and Europe?

I'm all ears for the answer to that one.

.....and whilst it is true that VAT rates vary between the EU member nation states how come (excepting the Republic of Ireland and Greece) the price is the same (€599) across so many of them?

The Wii is a faster system with more memory than the Gamecube with new controllers (not in the same power league as the PS3 or 360 but it is better than the cube). My 360 has proven to be as reliable as any of my other console purchases (got them all by the way) so that's crap, and if the 360 only has a handful (which is pure BS) of "vauguely decent games" then I guess that means my PS3 only has one, and the majority of titles that are on both platforms even native 1080P ones look and play better on the 360 or trade off something to make another part look slightly better (Fight Night 3 trades off crowd and lighting for more fighter detail, Ridge Racer 7 drops some scenery geometry, lighting and textures to do 1080P, hopefully this will change someday). As for Sony PS3 games being considerably cheaper than 360 games that is ONLY in the european market they cost the same here in the US.
On the plus side I was able to swap out my harddrive easily in the PS3 with no pain (grr to MS for signed drives) and on the American units they fixed some of the display issues on backwards compatability and have a higher B/C rate because of the hardware in the US/Japnese units. I don't see how they can expect the European/Australian markets to pay more for a machine with features removed.

"and the majority of titles that are on both platforms even native 1080P ones look and play better on the 360"

This is because the majority of next-gen titles are developed for the 360 and then they get ported to the PS3. People just don't realize how badly Sony timed their PS3 release. A one year delay is an eternity in the console world. It used to be that most titles were developed for the PS2, then ported to all the other systems which were out. Now Microsoft has the upper hand and the roles are reversed. Game companies develop their games on the console with the highest install base. Developing a game costs millions (or even tens of millions) and a lot of the games have been out for almost a year now. No one is going to spend a fortune to re-develop their games for the PS3, instead they will do crappy ports. A port will, obviously, never run as well as it does on the original, native platform. This is hurting/going to hurt Sony in a bad way.

That could be the crux of the issue, no matter what happens the 360 is always going to be a year ahead in development and familiarity. Kind of sucks though having all 3 units makes me wish that the software coming out for them would take advantage of all the strengths of each platform but in the real world quick and dirty seem to rule. Hopefully games like Lair and Motostorm will make up for it since they seem to be dedicated devs.

It seems as though Sony's is trying to loose the 'Console War'.

They're losing it, all right. They're about to fall into the "death spiral" if this s*** keeps up. See below:

http://www.theinquirer.n...ault.aspx?article=37773

Nice read. Thanks. I wonder if a Sony fanboy can put any spin on that to make it look postive for Sony?

That guy is always posting his crap, he doesn't understand much, infact his PS3 lies date back to when he posted nonsense about the PS3 memory write speed being broken...

http://www.theinquirer.n...ault.aspx?article=32171

This turned out to be totally bogus. The guy is a total laughing stock..

SAY WHA--?

'Scuse me, are you trying to be fanboy s*** or something? Sony's ****ed up worse than this dude did.

And BTW, before you even THINK people are bashing Sony for nothing, here are a few more strikes against them:

Strike #1: PS3 change @ hardware level breaks golden rule

http://www.theinquirer.n...ault.aspx?article=37833

Strike #2: Nintendo beats Sony by almost double for January

http://money.cnn.com/200...eo_games.reut/index.htm

Strike #3: Sony lampooned by YouTube spinmeister using "Doc Adams" song

http://youtube.com/watch?v=R98qC0fd_1w

Now ask me who struck out?

Strike#1

They have not changed how the PS3 works, only how backwards compatability for PS2 games works. The Charlie guys is obviosly an idiot if he fails to understand that (or wants web traffic from xbox fanboys).

Strike#2

Sony outsold everyone else last month including the WII, with PS2 and PS3 sales combined.. Doh..

Strike#3

Some Xbox fanboy has alot of spare time on his hands. If his console was any good, don't you think he would not have much spare time for this trash? perhaps after the mere 5 hours of Gears Of War gameplay, they have to resore to YouTube videos to take up their spare time...

#1 Backwards compatability is part of the machine, changin how it's doen is changing how the machine works. It doesn't affect PS3 games but does affect the function of the machine, for example, my current PS3 runs 99% of the old titles a/p Sony, the newer models don't also a/p Sony that is a change in the way the machine works if something that will work on one PS3 but not a newer model

#2 he was refering to "Next Gen" (New systems released in the past year and a half)systems not the PS2, guess he should have been more specific to avoid your attack. The PS3 came in third for Next Gen systems Wii was first 360 was second.

#3 Looks like Sony Fanboys have just as much time on thier hands to respond to the Xbox fanboys. For me since I'm at work this is all I can get away with over setting up my 360, PS3, or Wii, that would be a bit conspicuous. Oh yeah another fun fact what about the Sony fanboy who went out of his way to fake a PS3 running Gears of War on YouTube, would be the same thing huh?

#1 PS2 chips (EE and GS) are unused when playing PS3 games, so PS3 gaming it toally unaffected by their absence, There is no way it has any bearing on cross machine compatability. In addition, it's only the EE that's removed, GS is still in the EU consoles (for the moment anyhow).

I know it's not going to affect PS3 titles, but it will affect people with PS2 collections which sucks. Thankfully I have a launch unit so I'm not going to be one of the folks who may feel ripped off if their favorite or unfinished PS2 game doesn't play (that and I still have my PS2 on the shelf for games that actually use rumble as part of the gameplay).

The bad news for Sony just doesn't seem to stop coming. You can always trust the hardcore Sony fans to crawl out from under their rocks and try and put a positive spin on things. Either that, or whine about the way BetaNews is reporting on things. This time around it looks like only the facts have been posted, so it's hard to whine about that. Anyway, it's pretty obvious to me that Sony is simply trying to save some money with this latest move. Their console turned out like the Titanic, sinking slowly, but surely.

..but wait, I'm wrong. Removing some of the hardware and emulating it in software is a good thing! Why? BECAUSE STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN SAID SO!!

PS. - I hate that fake wrestling crap, but I couldn't resist the joke above. :)

And you couldn't even get the quote right. Idiot!

This sucks. Nothing more to say. 1 thing why i buy PS3 is for the Backward Compatibility. Oh well maybe it's better to buy PS2 if these bad news continue.

Why would you buy it for the backwards compatibility? Just simply buy a PS2 if you want to play PS2 games.

This way, they can continue to have excellent PS2 numbers. ??

Sony finally figured it out--the PS2 is selling like hotcakes, while the PS3 is sitting on store shelves collecting dust. Difference? PRICE!

No, they're doing this to kill themselves further with a very retarded excuse.

Or should I say "Wiitarded" because they just gave Nintendo one more advantage over the PS3 (short of HD, of course, as that may require a lot of work to do on Wii and may run the risk of not happening due to decisions, specs, and whatever else may hold it back).

So why does Sony not bother with full back-compat in most of the world while Microsoft can upgrade its emulator and Nintendo provides complete GameCube support? Evidently those ****ing bas****s at Sony don't even know Jack s***!!! Or something like that...

To be fair Sony is still doing backwards compatability, just not to the extent that they bragged about and used as a selling point over the past year.

It's all about money, folks...if only seven-core cell processors grew on trees (well, sony's trees that is).

I will put money on the fact, this "new" version of the PS3 will be also sold in North America.

Software emulation has proven not to work well enough on consoles yet.

It is coming, very soon apparently.

There are reports from the developers back in summer 06, that emulation is coming on very well..

http://www.gamesindustry...tent_page.php?aid=16310

"He claimed that a surprising number of PS2 titles are already working on PS3 prototype hardware, and revealed that the emulation tricks being used to mimic the behaviour of the notoriously complex PS2 processors are getting whole swathes of game titles up and running on an ongoing basis."

Now wind on 8 months, I'm sure things are pretty good, and based on those screenshots, software emulation may indeed turn out to be better than the hardware in the US/Jap units. (which should still be able to switch to software emu also)

Seems this is only part of the story.

Becuase it's done in software, it can also upscale PS1/PS2 games to 1080p, and so FSAA..

Whilst compatability is reduced (to a unknown level), quality is greatly improved over the US/Jap units.

http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=59112

As usual, don't believe the Betanews spin on things. I seriously doubt the software emulation could be anywhere near as bad as the 360...

PS2 FinalFantasy on PS3 (dev unit), software emulated, FSAA and 1080p..

http://img249.imageshack...hp?image=highresko6.jpg
http://img249.imageshack...p?image=highres2in9.jpg

This is also hardly new news...

http://techon.nikkeibp.c...NEWS_EN/20061108/123308/

8th Nov 2006...

There you go again...turning negative sony news, into positive sony news, I love it. :)

Merely correcting the sony hate nonsense they post as news here..

It's very trendy to knock the leader, everyone wants to see Sony fail, and doing their hardest to prentend it's going to happen.,,

Steve is a freindless fanboy. What a tool. I was playing my PS3 last night, I decided Grand Turismo HD is the most boring racing game I have ever played. The graphics are pretty good but the entire game is ZZZZZZZZZ. The whole console is that way.

I really can't stand the PS3 compared to the 360. I only bought it so I can watch Cars and Pirates 2 and 3 in HD.

Steve doesnt even own a PS3. He is the definition of fanboy, Mark and Dave got nothing on this spinmaster. If I didnt have a life, I'd go back and dig up all the 360 non backward compatibilty bashing this ****head did in the past and post it right here.

Don't get me wrong. I have a PS2 and enjoy it but you're right. I would love to see Sony crash and burn in a blinding flash of hellfire. Those arrogant morons need to be taught a lesson.

OK, your either playing devils advocate here, are are totally stupid.

Grand Turismo HD, is not a full game, it's a technology demo, with single track...

your example screenshots DO NOT show FSAA

'I seriously doubt the software emulation could be anywhere near as bad as the 360...'

Whys that?

I think he refers to the less than 30% compatability...

It sucks, period.

You were probably the first person b****ing about 360's backwards compatibility problems, but it's OK for Sony to shaft the EU market.

I can't stand people who take sides based on the fact that they can't afford both. Instead of looking at the facts based on experience, you jump on the sheep/lemming bandwagon.

I told you I don't really give a s*** of Sony or Microsoft go out of business. I can't stand either company anyways. You are so Sony biased it makes me sick, just pry open your wallet and shoe away the moths and go buy a 360 on your Best Buy credit card, I'm sure a busy CEO executive type like you has at least a $750.00 line of credit there.

Once you do, you will realize the 360 is the better console in many ways, same with HD-DVD. You can't complain unless you own both. I say BD and PS3 have a lot of bugs to work out, especially Blu-ry and thier hesitating and bad artifacting on most if not all of their movies.

Get a life or a better job, or maybe if you are married or have a girlfreind, grow some balls and buy whatever you like, whenever you want, like i do.

Thanks, but personal insults are quite low, but not unexpected from you.

As it happens, I do already have a very well paid job, but money is still precious to me and I wouldn't waste my money on a 360.

I think it's obvious to most that the 360 is not a better console, as Microsoft are about to release the new better version of the 360, with all the bits they left out last time...

"It's very trendy to knock the leader, everyone wants to see Sony fail, and doing their hardest to prentend it's going to happen."

Newsflash: The leader is Microsoft, not Sony. Besides, we don't have to pretend Sony is failing, just read all the latest Sony related headlines. On that note;

Merely correcting the sony hate nonsense they post as news here.

Please. They're cold, hard facts, buddy. Look at every other news site, all you see is negative press for Sony. When was the last time you saw anything positive coming from Sony? All they do is lie, BS and delay everything, then pretend like it didn't happen. We're not pretending, we're deciding that it should be so. There are a lot of reasons why people hate Microsoft, but there are heaps more why everyone hates Sony. Sony is dying, get over it.

I think it's obvious to most that the 360 is not a better console, as Microsoft are about to release the new better version of the 360, with all the bits they left out last time...

Yes, yes, MS is releasing a new version of the 360 with "bits they left out", while Sony is releasing a new version of the PS3 and TAKE bits out, like PS2 backwards compatibility. BAM!

Ouch.

Nice liberally applied sarcasm.

"Steve is a freindless fanboy. What a tool. I was playing my PS3 last night, I decided Grand Turismo HD is the most boring racing game I have ever played. The graphics are pretty good but the entire game is ZZZZZZZZZ. The whole console is that way."

People always have a genre of game that they most like.

I like racing games, and I like the amount of effort and attempt at realism in Gran Turismo.

You don't.

Who gives a **** if you don't like it? Why are you winging about it here?

Perhaps you shouldn't have bought it.

"Newsflash: The leader is Microsoft, not Sony."

Nope, that'll be the PS2 still, I'm afraid.

"Nope, that'll be the PS2 still, I'm afraid."

Oh I'm sorry, I thought we were talking "next gen", but yes, as far as "last gen" goes, PS2 is the winner. Then again, no one cares much about last gen, considering it is on its way out.

No that sentance strongly suggests the 360 isnt any good at the emulation it allready does.

Exactly!

Exactly again!

And that's what makes you a fanboy! Even worse, you have the money for both, but you still stick to one console as if the world will end if you buy a 360 (because it doesn't have the Sony name on it).

I agree, grow some balls and buy both systems and be happy.

I never really saw what people liked in that game. I have GT1 for the PS1 and tried to get into it, beause it's what everyone was talking ab out, but I couldn't really get into it... no matter how hard I tried. Kind of like the new Final Fantasy's (starting with VII and up) and Metal Gear Solids (which I like this type of games and FPS's the most).

So in summary:

Microsoft created a half baked system, sold it to 10 million people, a third of them failed. They then released an add-on for the ailing HD-DVD format, which cannot be used for games, a mere year later, Microsoft releases the proper version with lots of new features and no upgrade route 10 million existing users.

Sony release a year later, when ready, with PS2 hardware inside to handle backwards compatability. When they are ready with the software emulation, they remove the PS2 hardware.

See the pattern? Microsoft are the ones that shafted their customers here, not Sony. However people here are such blinded Xbox fanboys, they can't see that...

The new PS2 software emulation has potential for being considerably better than the hardware solution (HD upscaling and FSAA), but with the donwnside of initally not being as compatible.

So in summary:

Microsoft = Evil
Sony = Good

"Microsoft created a half baked system, sold it to 10 million people, a third of them failed."

It's amazing how you can pull random, untrue statistics out of your butt. Say what you will about the 360, the fact is; Microsoft beat Sony to the punch and now the PS3 is desperately trying to claw back market share, and failing miserably. The PS3's main problem is price. The hardcore gamers will pay any price, but the rest of the world will not. This is proven by the incredible success of the Wii. 'nuff said.

"They then released an add-on for the ailing HD-DVD format"

Again, more random, untrue propaganda. You Sony fanboys keep thinking, if you wish HD-DVD dead, it will come true. Keep wishing. The HD-DVD is here to stay and Sony's Blu-ray crap will just do a repeat of history a la Betamax.

"Microsoft releases the proper version with lots of new features and no upgrade route 10 million existing users."

Wrong again. The hardware will essentially remain the same. They're including a bigger HD, some new outputs (which most people don't really need anyway) and a dye shrink for the main components.

"Sony release a year later, when ready, with PS2 hardware inside to handle backwards compatability. When they are ready with the software emulation, they remove the PS2 hardware."

You sound just like Sony themselves. They say one thing, then when it doesn't happen, they pretend like they never said it. Sony actually promised to release the PS3 at the same time (or before?) the Xbox 360, they simply could not do it. Now you're making it sound like they chose to delay it over and over again. Then you do the same with thier PS2 emulation. You make it sound like the whole thing was planned. No, Sony is removing the hardware emulation components in order to save money, nothing more. Shareholders are very unhappy with the tremendous losses incurred by the PS3, so Sony will be cutting corners every chance they get.

I mean, do you even think before you post these things? Do you honestly believe that Sony would choose to give Microsoft the upper hand by waiting with the PS3 release until it was ready? They had absolutely no choice in the matter. It had nothing to do with the PS3 not being ready, more to do with shortage of components, etc. Let's face it, Sony dropped the ball and showed up late for the party. Now they're playing catch up to the Xbox360.

The leading next gen system is the 360 and software companies will develop for the system with the highest install base. The other systems get shafted with "half baked" ports. Most of the new games are developed for the 360 and then ported to the PS3.

"The new PS2 software emulation has potential for being considerably better than the hardware solution"

Key word there being "potential". Lots of things from Sony have "potential", but then they rarely deliver on their promises.

You can spew your diarrhea of the mouth all day long, it won't matter to me. I'm not a "blinded Xbox fanboy" as you put it. I don't own a 360 or PS3, I do however own an Xbox and a PS2. They were both good consoles, but these next gen piles of turds just don't interest me. I don't really have much against the PS3 itself, it's the company behind it that I hate. I hate Sony and everything they stand for. They're a bunch of arrogant, lying, money grubbing hypocrites. It's time consumers taught them a lesson they won't soon forget.

People hate Microsoft just because it's Microsoft, without actually having any reason for it. (Other than the usual 'they make crappy software' junk.) At least Microsoft doesn't continually lie and deceive their own customers.

For more information on Sony, read Maddox's article. He pretty much hits the nail right on the head.

http://www.thebestpagein....net/c.cgi?u=sony_bulls***

PS. - I'm sure you can guess the three letters which are censored in the link above. :)

Well said kashin. Most of the people bashing the PS3 or the 360 have never even played one. The same goes for BD and HD-DVD, people like DaveBG on his own admission, don't even own one but they have nothing better to do but come here an act like an idiot fanboy. That moron has joined countless BD forums under the same name and posts the exact same crap as in here. Talk about a loser.

The only system I haven't bought is the Wii, I have no interest in it what so ever. But you don't see me bashing it because I dont own one and it will eventually outsell all the 360's and PS3's combined. People like Steve and Dave take this so personal because I truly believe they have noyhting better to do.

"www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net"

Whoa, that's going to be my new homepage. :-)

Sorry to shock you back into reality, Sony is the console leader, 120,000,000 Playstation customers...

Whilst it may look like Microsoft may lead, from your sample of 10 trailer park hicks, it's simply not the case.

Of course if you only want to talk about this generation, then yes, Microsoft may have sold 10 million 360's compared to Sony's 1.5 million, but then it's had a year head start..

I wonder how many of those 10 million 360's are replacements? 30% failure rate and all...

I was talking about both.
It's outselling the 'next gen' consoles still.

Therefore your point about Microsoft being the leader is wrong.

Sorry if you didn't understand or something.

How many of those 120 Million PS2 were replacements for dead units (it too was notorious for defects at launch and drives dying later on) or people switching out their old PS2 for the sleek smaller box? Also in case you missed it MS did extend the warranty refund people repair money (something Sony wouldn't do without a court order). Please join the real world. By the way I own a PS2, PS3, Xbox, 360, and a Wii as well as a bunch of the earlier consoles, you know like Atari...the former console industry leader with an "untouchable" lead and 3 console under their belt and a computer division...sound familiar? Where are they now?

Believe what you like, regardless of the truth..

HD-DVD is dead, I give it another 6 months at the most..

There seems to be no real upgrade route for the exsiting 360s, aside from perhaps the HDD, and then that is propiterry, so will be extortionate price.. No IPTV, No Hi-Def, No HDMI...

As for 30% failure rate, that is quite conservative, as looking at some polls, at least half 360 owners have had at least 1 replacement console...

http://www.avforums.com/...showthread.php?t=476052

I love it when people mix facts and assumptions with outright lies.

No IPTV on current 360 boxes, that's an assumption.
No Hi-Def that's an outright lie, I've been playing in HD since the 360 launched at first via component at 1080i now via VGA at 1920x1080 (1080P).
Yes there have been numerous vocal folks about defects, the same stuff I heard back in the day of the PS2 launch, not good news anyway and probably could have been prevented. Yup I replaced my launch console but that was only after I broke it, not really due to a defect, got a free new working replacement.
No HDMI you that's true when MS shipped HDMI was just starting to gain a foothold (and wasn't up to 1.3), while designing the console , VGA and Component were the prevalent HDTV input standards, DVI was around on select sets but with varying flavors of HDCP. While we are talking HDMI what about the PS3s problems with numerous HDMI sets? Careful when you link to Avforums, becuase folks might stumble upon that thread too (can't acces those forums from here they are blocked by my job). My PS3 for example when hooked up to my Sceptre 37" 1080P set has noise and low color depth when set to HDMI or HDCP, I can set it to DVI and get a real clear deep color picture but then my PS2 games and DVDs are s***ed to the right, PS3 games and Blu-Ray movies play just fine. I also hate the resolution resyncs everytime I leave or enter the crossbar (even for stuff running at the same resolution), also I've got some PS1 games that they claim are compatable but always give me the "not supported" message (run fine on my PS2 though).
HD-DVD it may die it may not, but so far the majority of HD-DVD titles have looked better than their Blu-ray conterparts, that is slowly starting to change now that some Blu-Ray disks are starting to use AVC/VC1 but for some reason those disks are more expensive than the ones using mpeg2, the flip side is I do own more Blu-Ray movies than HD-DVDs just cause of the exclusivity on some titles, it does hurt me when they use the crappy mpeg2 rather than the better compression techniques though.

I really love it when those folks try to completely ignore or argue to the death the ones like me who do own and play all the systems. It's always laughable until you realize that there are folks out there that might actually believe them when they rant.

"HD-DVD is dead, I give it another 6 months at the most.."

- There goes what little credibility you ever had.

The plain truth is that both formats will be around for a long long time yet.

It will take several years (perhaps more than 5yrs) for either high def format to become 'mainstream' and displace and outsell SD DVD
(cos forget those sad 'ratio' or 'percentage' claims, the cold hard numbers show neither high def format is actually selling well).

Even then the other supposedly losing format will still be around
(my own bet is it'll be Blu-ray that 'loses'......but it'll still be around as a PS3 proprietary format......same deal as when the consoles battled, the 'loser' rarely goes away & disappears, it just sells in smaller numbers).

Only the most deluded & cretinous day-dreaming fanboys imagine either format vanishing soon.

No, your mum does, period LOL

Funnily enough, 360s had defective and dead units too. So what's your point? Are you deliberately being selective with your facts?

Maybe you should try actually reading, I used the word "too" that means "also" so I'm not being selective with facts, I was pointing out that he was being selective. By the way speaking of facts I own a PS3, PS2, Xbox, 360, Wii and other consoles so I don't need to defend any one particular unit just lay out the truth period.

I'd like to point out a few things about notnormal's post about the different HD input standards and defend sony's cause to a certain degree. You can insult me any wya you please, it won't bother me. I own a 360, PS3 and a Wii and each have their own benefits and downfalls. And as much as it pains me to sya it, the Wii actually does have benefits over both PS3 and 360, if not graphically.

Anyhow as for the different inputs, the argument about 1080P inputs not working on many TV's is not because the PS3 is screwing it up, but because the Television is. The majority of so-called 1080P televisions currently on the market, are not actually capable of accepting a 1080P input, only capable of upscaling a lesser input to 1080P. Because of this, if oyu input a 1080P signal through HDMI you get a blurry or unclear picture. Set your PS3 to output in 1080i or 720p and I bet it solves the problem. This may not be true in EVERY case but it is for 97% of the problems. As for the DVI issue it's actually a firmware/software problem due to the change from hi-def to low-def. If you set the native resolution of your PS3 to low-def it will work correctly. This is supposedly going to be fixed in the next couple updates and is supposed to be fixed on European release model.

As far as the pricing issue, I agree that their price in Europe is inflated, but it is not inflated for the reasons of milking you for all you are worth, although there is about 15% that is unaccounted for. I do a lot of International sales for my job (Industrial Lab Analysis Equipment) and it all comes down to exchange rates and taxes as well as how comfortable you are with hedging your bets. All international companies will add a set percentage on top of their standard price to accomodate for a) freight b) currency exchange c) import/export tariffs d) other taxes. As every currency fluctuates from day to day you have to buffer it usually by a significant margin of say 5-10 percent. let's give Sony the benefit of the doubt and use 5%. Shipping they will charge at least another 5% (standard practice is 10, but they will probably cut it. Import/export taxes and tariffs will be another 25% (this is kind of a best case scenario because remember, they have to pay someone to do the importing/exporting paperwork that they don't have to do in Japan as well as pay for he taxes/tariffs themselves. Taxes based on country let's say average about another 10 % at minimum so there's 50% and that's a best case scenario. And say the standard mark-up from cost is a mere 15%, which is extremely low. Remember, when they mark up, it is divided sot hat the cost is 85 percent of the sell, not that the sell is 15% higher than the cost. They divide by .85 instead of multiplying buy 1.15. So, look at it this way.

208 Pound standard
208 x 1.5 for added costs is 313.5 pound.
Not ot mention the Europen prices on most electronic product is at least 10 percent higher profit margin so add 10 percent more

New European cost 344.85 pounds.So yes, like I said, I agree that you are getting hit with unexplainable price increases, well, I can explain it, it's called greed. But it's really not as bad as you are making it out to be. You can go ahead and flaunt that it is 100% higher if you want, but realistically, it's just not. I'm sorry you guys are getting shafted, but I'm not sure there is much you can do. I do think hat the UK and Europe will see significant price reductions very quickly after launch unlike the US.

Perhaps this is the reasoning from Sony, inflated launch price, sell what they can at a huge profit and then drastically reduce the price goading more purchases at the lower price where they make the same profit they do in the rest of the world. It will give the general uneducated gaming public the impression that Sony is doing them a favor.

All I can say is...Unbelievable. I can't believe Sony just shafted Europe like this.

They shafted them long ago by just postponing the PS3.

Europe gets shafted yet again.

We get the lowest specs & the highest prices (see reports on Greek prices going up further today).

They're cutting out the PS2 hardware & going for emulation
(which is pretty hilarious considering they were bashing the XBox 360 at CES for doing that with the mk1 XBox stuff).

My own bet is for a very short fanboy rush and then stalled sales, just like everywhere else.

The prices are just laughably outrageous - especially as they are attempting to charge double what they charging in Japan!

I failed to mention that all prices in my original post were in USD for easy comparison. You can get a more accurate price list at the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3

Not sure if it's completely accurate, but should be very close.

Tenoq - Sorry, the price I had for the 60GB was in USD ($785) which equals to $999 AUS.

But then the £ is worth double the $, so when I make the trip over I buy things at pretty much half price.

I pay for the flight (and holiday) in all the savings I make.

$785? Where'd you get that number? Our retailers here are all saying $999. No cheap version for Aus, just the fully-specced one for a ridiculous price.

"Rather than concentrate on PS2 backwards compatibility"

Well, knowing that Sony if full of broken promises I cant say I'm surprised...

Yeah it looks like a lot of the fanboys are skipping that particular quoted line. You can't just ignore that Sony is basically saying F-you you'll take what we give you and feel priveledge for it, we don't really care about it you should be happy with the new games and love the fact we are charging you more for less of a machine. Bottom line is if Sony hadn't made such a big deal about the 99% compatability due to us adding the hardware, no one would have cared about the changes. I find it really wierd how Sony cosiders a downgrade a good thing (remember when PS2s used to have firewire (called I-link) and supported harddrives? Both those features were removed, but at least then they dropped the price, and added progressive scan DVD and built in IR).

Wondering how much Microsoft pay you for this??

http://www.eweek.com/art...2/0,1895,2077596,00.asp

Sounds like Sony just doesn't want those areas playing ps2 games to me.