Guys I am running a beta version of Lindows here (0.90) and it seems quite real to me... If it runs ok why should it be vaporware. I do agree though that the pay to test and send us feedback story is stupid. Maybe these guys are short in funds. And on top of that, if Microsoft had any suspicion that this is vaporware why did they go beserk about it? Think about that for a moment...

OK, if you're running Lindows maybe you know why?

How well does it look like windows ? Does it have a the same Windows contorls, same file system lay out? alot of other things etc need to be questioned. If its Looks like Windows, smells like Windows, feels like Windows, named like Windows. Must crash like windows too.

Remember Winblows 98 by Microshaft?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that "Lindows" is an obvious rip-off. If these guys have a real product, they should be capable of thinking up a name of their own.

Heh, I actually have that game- "Microshaft Windblows 98,99,200,2001, etc.."
I have had *one* person think it was a copy of actual MS Windows software- and that because he didn't read the title correctly.
It was a fairly decent "parady game".

James Wheat
http://belprecomputerwizard.com

I bought a copy of it. Had to love "Internet exploiter" heh

Lindows is going to be fantastic.....

Linix on its own is cool but it is not windows compatable....hence it failed in the public sector..
lindows is going to make linix better known and respected....

Lindows gives people the chance of useing linx and windows apps etc....

Finally someone done something to compete...with the microsoft giant...and took over where the failing linix left off.....

Finally bill gates is feeling the heat !

1) What the hell is 'linix'? Any why do you want it to be known and respected?
2) What the hell are 'linx apps'?
3) Since when was 'linix failing'? or even Linux for that matter?

As at least two people here have put it, 'Lindows' is vaporware! There really isn't a better and simpler way of describing it!

As a Lead Technical Consultant for a major software company, (not MS) I find it interesting that Lindows is asking me to pay $99 to provide them with input. The $99 doesn't even assure me of being a beta tester and seeing actual product. The idea of paying them so that I can provide input is absurd.

Yes, another choice of OS's is a swell idea, but I believe that what we are looking at here is a vaporware scam.

Go to www.newsforge.com and read the article about it, it's not vaporware. :-)

maybe they should change it to AOLindows.

This is hilarious...a VAPORWARE project that all the Linuxhead hatemongers are arguing about. "touts the ability to smoothly run many Windows applications - although a preview release originally slated for December has failed to surface." That says it all right there.

Has anyone seen those "screenshots" they have posted?? ROFLMAO!! They're so fake it's unbelievable. And all these Linux folks actually thinking this is going to kill Windows on the desktop...Come on now, think for once. If these people can make wine work right, why can't those who work on wine directly make it work?? No one thought of that I suppose. Wine has been in development for what...10 years now??

As always, Linux is trying to play catch-up and they won't win. It simply will not pry Microsoft from the desktop, although the server market is a different matter. Servers are where Linux works very, very well, and should stay there.

Hate to break it to you bud, but they aren't fake. I have Notes, Word, Excel, IE, StarCraft, SimCity, SimCity 2000, and several other apps all running in wine. In fact, I posted screenshots of my system here 6 months ago.

Can you post that link again, I'd like to see it. Unfortunately, I have to slow CPU to take the speed-hit that comes with WINE. Otherwise, I would spend less time in Windows. Now, I am waiting for OpenGL 2.0 and a DirectX-emulator... :)

Yeah, I'll put some together when I get the chance, and post them, I don't archive old screenshots. ;-)

The screenshots I'm talking about are the ones posted on the Lindows website, not Wine running "generically" so to speak. I'd bet you did a lot of hair pulling to get all those apps to work right anyway :) A lot more than 99.9% of the people out there will tolerate. Hell, I even had to change install files in the Linux Unreal Tournament package so it would install! And that was from an established company, not some guy giving away freeware. That's why this stuff won't work on the desktop.

The only troubles I had were installer based. I had to install the applications on a Win9x parition, and then move the install over to a Wine "c drive" Which was fine because I had an old Win9x license kicking around the house anyway.

I agree. Linux will never replace Bill on a desktop. I am a Linux fan and run it on one of my machines at home. It's a great OS to throw on a box that you build from the 'ol spare parts box. Runs well even on an old 1st gen pentium.

You also hit the target on the server market. My same rationale applies there. Most servers out there are long in the tooth, so Linux wins hands-down. Not to mention saving the $700 per server license!

Lindows looks like a vaporware scam. Would anyone like to buy a pet rock?

Yeah but the wine website doesnt paint such a good picture as you like to make out. Application reports posted by users say that Office 97 works generally ok (outlook being a little unreliable), but Office 2000 and Office XP pretty much dont work - along with most other recent applications.

Who do I believe? fewt? or the hundreds of other people who use wine?

fewt, as he is one of those hundreds of people, and far more advanced than most of them. ;-)

right on

Can you possibly jam those lips any further up his ass?

On a side note, why is it that every so often some 'fan' of fewt's comes onboard to cheer him on. Where do you find these people? Or are you just making additional accounts so it looks as though other people share your opinions =p

Feel free to ask nate to post IP logs. I have no idea who these other people are, but I definately welcome them to the debate. :-)

a) I'm not doubting that someone could be walking around with their lips permanently attached to your back side; and
b) If you were really dedicated you'd fake the IP - which isn't all that hard to do.

Why is it that you now have to resort to calling me a dupe? I have no interest in creating false support for myself, quit pulling things out of you ass, and concentrate on the topic.

Great idea with so much merit-what a shame to have it dashed before Ms Windoze users get the chance to see a true alternative for them in the shape of rock solid operating system emulating a crumbling OS - just for the sake of a name.
Wake up people just call WorldOS does the name really matter we need it !!!

Why not call the product Lindow.com? As in "X Window?"

Just rename it, LinDex. With a motto of, The quickest way to wipe your windows......

thats just kookie enough to work.

I like it, but then Microsoft would find a way to sue them for that too.

I don't get it, Lindows has a ligitmate option here, they've just taken Linux, Added the WINE emulator & made it even simpler to use & added "Windows" capeablility, I mean any body can do this to their existing Linux Distributions, Lindows is just making it part of the package. Lindows is hust selling an idea & a name. I say rename it & Call it Winedows... or Just say Linux, capable of running Windows programs. I also think MS has a problem with an alternative OS, they've been trying to shut down Linux for years & haven't done it, this is just someones good idea, wish I'd thought of it - GO Lindows !!

Can we go back to the basics in business here. Does anybody remember when instead of suing somebody else or another company we actually tried to be competative and make good products. Instead of "accidentally" spilling coffee on ourselves to get a lawsuit and a load of cash; we actually held jobs and were employees to companies or organizations and did our job. We didn't work for the money; we worked because we liked it. Where did those days go? Did they ever exist. Does Microsoft hate their customers to much that they want to sue their competition out of their product instead of relying on the basis that their products should be good enough to beat the competition? Maybe this shows that Microsoft is affraid of loosing their market share and afraid they will NOT be making the amount of money they have been making.

I think that Lindows is a good idea. Granted the name might be too close to Windows; none of that should matter. The opinion of this author is that Microsoft should swallow their balls and let their "good" products show-up the competition. That is: If the competition isn't ever baught out, sewed, or swindled.

Great points. You have to wonder whether the naming was intentional to get some added press to a product which simply sounds like another CorelLinux. Lindows now has tons of coverage all saying it is meant to compete with Windows - most leaving out the fact that it's simply Linux+WINE with some added tweaks.

Microsoft has a legimate beef. Lindows is supossed to sound like Windows. Would McDonalds be right to take action against a start-up hamburger chain the called itself "MacDonalds?" I don't know why everyone hates Bill. I've been on computers since 1976 with an IBM Systems 360. Hell, I even used a key punch in my day. Bill ran with an idea, stolen it may be, and changed our lives. His products work better than Firestone tires and I'm not aware of them killing very many people. He gives billions to charity. I wouldn't have a job today if it wasn't for what he has done. Is he really wrong?

My point is simple; Microsoft shouldn't be so jumpy to bring down a startup before the public gets a chance to see if that companies product is really better than Microsoft's products. I believe that the big green giant IS afraid of this and has found no better way of getting around it than to buy them out. Of course the option of them theirselves making better products is out.
So what if there was a MacDonalds, my belief is that if McDonalds made a better hamburger than MacDonalds, then McDonalds would be the more popular place to eat and MacDonalds would go out of business. This same thing happens all the time on store shelves. When I was an employee of Kmart I noticed many very similar names on the shelf made by different companies. Most of these companies were the Kmart brand and some even took the original products name and just reversed the words.
The sad fact is that Business and Politics have converged to the point where business is no longer product competition, but instead is a battle of the lawers.

Bulls***. The second McDonalds heard about some startup ready to call themselves MacDonalds there would be law suits flying all over the place. It has nothing to do with McDonalds not wanting competition and everything to do with MacDonalds thinking they can take advantage of the McDonalds brand. Same thing with Windows/Lindows. If you are unable to see or understand this then please move on.

Yes, please move on. Windows looks like Apple O/S, but Apple lost in court. bye. ;-)

Is it just me or does Michael Robertson get sued with every company he joins?

When reports first came out about Lindows, there were many comments made about about the name back then. So, I would say the company should have known better (other names where suggested that sounded better, anyway). I would suggest "Lindows" creator (or marketting) decide to just change the name a bit more, so there would be NO WAY they could be considered "part of Microsoft". There have been other cases like this (with all sorts of businesses, not just computers), so is nothing new.

Also, consider this-
Most "computer illiterates" as they term themselves, will see "WindowsOS" and "LindowsOS" as very simular.
They are the same except for *ONE* letter in the name, and are both an OS, and both can run Windows Apps.
I feel it is a very stupid way to start a business- with a lawsuite, because the person wanted a "sounds like" name.

James Wheat
http://belprecomputerwizard.com

X Windows came before Microsoft trademarked Windows. Windows has been used as part of enough softwares that IMHO Microsoft has lost their rights to the word.

Fewt, I would guess "legal-wise" it would depend on *how* the word is being used. Such as, Windows OS, MS Windows- those show one way. X-Windows as a GUI is different enough, I guess, that it won't be confused with Windows OS.
At least, that is how I see it working out. Possibly if they do something like "The Lindows OS", that may be enough of a change to satisfy everyone?

James Wheat
http://belprecomputerwizard.com

It's X Window, not Windows...

http://www.xfree86.com/#whatis

XFree86 is not the original XWindows. It's actually "X Windowing Environment" if you really want to break it down. Fact of the matter is that it has been referred to as X Windows since it's inception. ;-)

Dunno.

Really? I always thought it was just 'X', there is no such thing as 'X Windows', it just happens to be a popular name that people use. And just because people call it 'X Windows' doesn't make it right =)

Actually I think it was 'MIT X window system' (somtimes called MIT X, sometimes MIT X Windowing System, sometimes X Windows). Either way, I think the general argument fewt is trying to make is that "Windows" was used to describe a windowing computing environment far before Microsoft began using it. X Windows, Open Windows, etc. were common computing terms before Microsoft came around with their own 'Windows'.

Ahh! For the 3rd time, it's not called X Windows! The name is X Window System.

Tell me, what's the difference? lol Some of you guys make 0 sense.. X Window / X Windows it's all the same damn thing. Fact is that Microsoft did not invent the word Window. ;-)

The word 'Bandaid' wasn't invented by Johnson&Johnson??? (not 100% sure) but they sure as hell have a trademark on it!

What's your point?

Using the term 'Bandaid' was not common practice before it was trademarked. Using the term 'Kleenex' was not common practice before it was trademarked. Using the term "Windows" when referring to a computing Window system (X Windows, MIT Windows, whatever) was quite common long before Microsoft came around.

Correct, you repeated exactly what my post said. But you're missing the point. Go search Google. "X Windows" was used QUITE OFTEN to refer to the X window system even by UNIX experts and system administrators. Hell even the guys at MIT often called it "X Windows", along with "X", etc. and they were the guys who developed it.

They aren't going to bother proving Lindows isn't confusing. Instead they are going to try to prove that MS hasn't enforced their trademark and it's now abandoned. It seems risky, but maybe they know that to a judge and jury, Lindows and Windows sound too similar and they won't win. Remember, Microsoft's trademark is not Windows OS, it's just Windows. Lindows' product is "LindowsOS", which makes it easier to prove that other people used "indows" or "win" or "windows" in their product names and Microsoft made no effort to stop them.

"and they were the guys who developed it."
pah! What would they know in that case =p

What were bandaid's called before J&J trademarked the word/brand? I was always under the impression that the word bandaid was used quite extensively way before J&J trademarked it.

My point is that it doesn't matter wether or not Microsoft 'invented/created' the word 'Window', obviously they did not. However they do have the trademark on 'Windows' do they not? If so, they are within their rights to protect that trademark given that the difference between Lindows and Windows is a single character, they basically sounds the same and they are both Operating Systems. If Lindows was a car polish, there wouldn't be a problem. This whole case is stupid, where were Lindows' lawyers in the first place to tell them they could get sued to hell and back if they stick with the name!

The difference here is that J&J most likely has defended their trademark. Microsoft is a day late and a dollar short defending theirs. This is just Microsoft's form of competing. If they could find a way to say that Linux can be confused with Windows, they would sue linus too.

Ah. I see your point. Microsoft could also counter with "reasonable use" I guess- some of or most of the other "win, indow, indows" type products are not an OS, so there is no "gray area"?
I still believe the people should have made a better choice for a name.

James Wheat
http://belprecomputerwizard.com

They were called bandages, probably...

Agreed. But they wanted/needed the press. Without this they would just become another CorelLinux which claimed similar things (at least some Windows compatibility, maybe not as outlandish as Lindows says), and is now dead.

Exactly, it is hard to copyright something that has already had a copyright on it or still does. A window is an object (something that is used in a house). A window in computing terms is much the same thing; it gives you a view to what you are working on. I might say that my IE Window was minimized.

The point here is that Windows is just Window with an "s" added to the end. It isn't really a product name unlike "XP" is in Windows XP. XP is the product name while Windows is just what it does. It is very hard to copyright something that every operating system does. Linux also "Windows", as does apple, beOS, UNIX, Solaris and many others.

I am not familare with all the copyright laws, but it seems to me that you can't just copyright something by a name that is what it does and this same thing is what it does. I don't remember there ever being a product called Windows. It was Windows 3, Windows 3.1, NT4, NT5 (Windows 2000), XP, 95, 98, ME and so forth.

Also, I have delt with a large sum of computer illiterate people. They struggle to realize the differences with the GUI, but they are not stupid. They can realize the difference between Wells Fargo and Wells Cargo so they can also realize the difference between Lindows and Windows.

they wouldnt know anything. they're just stupid geeks programming useless interfaces no one uses.

don't flame me. thats sarcasm

basically is not good enough. if they called it "Windows L OS" the word windows is clear, the meaning is clear, and the intent is clear. Lindows is containing a product description and there is no trademark on the psuedo word "Lindows"

Topic done. end of story. Lindows != Windows.

Not since Windows Media Player competes with WinAmp. If theres a product thats competing in any arena it would be subject to such laws, and once again this topic gets dismissed.

if they want to sue people they could now start with anyone who used the letters XP in their product.

I'm to tired to come up with examples but how about Athlon XP.

Maybe we should put it in Geek Speak as to help my fellow geek brethren understand.

perl -e 'until ($lindowsos =~/Windows/i) {print "Lindows is not Windows\n";}'

"The point here is that Windows is just Window with an "s" added to the end"

The word you're looking for is 'plural'. And 'bandaid' is a product name.

"I am not familare with all the copyright laws"...why didn't you stop right there if you do not understand how you can trademark 'Windows'?

Lindows looks like a very promising product. I do hope that Microsoft's latest method of "competing" fails. Tell ya what, they had better not use the personal data they've managed to get from Lindows to "compete". I have a feeling that Microsoft will get slapped for their insanity this time. Who would confuse Lindows and Windows? "I threw a rock through the lindow" yeah, I can see the resemblance.. LOL Their "Windows" trademark is a joke anyway, when I think of Windows, I think of big glass rectangles in my wall. Maybe Microsoft should be the one to be sued here.

If Lindows is successful in court, Microsoft could potentially find their trademark on the name "Windows" invalidated. Hell, "X Windows" was coined long before Microsoft released Windows. But the chances of that happening probably aren't very high.

Microsoft is a punch of cry babies....samething happened with the name X-box. Tell me, did they have the X-box name first? We're all behind you Lindows....

In a similar lawsuit, MS is currently being sued by this guy over the PocketPC trademark. The lawsuit is a bit silly, but I recall MS's lawyer stating that "pocketpc" was a generic term that could not be trademarked. You mean like...windows? In other words, MS will be running two contradictory arguments in these two cases, at the same time.

Anyway, when I first saw the name "LindowsOS", I saw the word as a play on "Lin" + "dows", as in some sort of Linus/Windows emulator, not "L" + "indows".

Quanta, you stated "Anyway, when I first saw the name "LindowsOS", I saw the word as a play on "Lin" + "dows", as in some sort of Linus/Windows emulator, not "L" + "indows"."
That's all well in good for those that know what is going on, but I would think the Lindows/Windows lawsuit is mainly based on the millions and millions of "computer illiterates" that have no idea that the monitor isn't the hard drive.

James Wheat
http://belprecomputerwizard.com

Sigh... Again it's X Window not Windows...

http://www.xfree86.com

shodgi5656, I think the most important question is, "who trademarked the x-box name first?". Just like the group that "as a joke, filed for (and won!) a patent on the "smiley face :)". Everyone has used that for years; now that they own the "patent" on it (or trademark, but I think it is patent) they could do whatever they want with it. You never know with the way things work!

James Wheat
http://belprecomputerwizard.com

It has been referred to as X Windows for over 20 years.

A few of my (much) lesser techie friends have all asked me if I have seen this really cool version of Linux called Lindows. Not a single one of them have confused it. :-) I suspect that if I called my grandmother and told her there was a new O/S out there called Lindows, she would not say "Wow, another WINDOWS". Instead I would hear "Lindows, what the hell is that? Is it like windows?" The latter question in no way confuses, infact it helps to differentiate the two softwares. (IMHO of course)

Interesting. In the last month or so, all the comments on stories have been comming from the same handful of people. It'd be one thing if the comments were substantive, but no. What we have instead is a bunch of ill-iformed, partially informed or totally ignorant, shallow, off-the-cuff remarks; equivalent to the slurred rantings of a drunken sophmore with a below-average I.Q., spewing words even as he chokes on his own vomit (how's that for a run-on sentence?)

To Beta News staff: delete this post if you must. Me, I've stuck with you as long as I can. I think it's time I moved on to greener (and more mature/intelligent) pastures. Good luck with your ad revenue.

Uhh, what was that all about? Are you saying by making your post a reply to mine that I'm ill-informed and ignorant, or wrong? :-P

Please refrain from exhibiting a superiority complex to other people, especially when your beliefs collide with the beliefs of others.

pffft please kid, I was running unix on a PDP 11 while you were still in diapers. Don't tell me that, one of the guys I know over at Compaq (from the Digital merger) who happens to be part of the X protocol RFC calls X "X Windows". I think he knows what the hell he's talking about..

http://groups.google.com...umcp-cs.UUCP&rnum=1

it wasn't the smiley face. It was the frown. :-(

http://www.despair.com/frownies.html

Seems like maybe it should be "Lindow-SOS" right about now. What a bad choice for a name!

your gramma would say "whats an OS" because grammas dont know what the hell you're talking about

i think he said you're stupid, dood.

huhuhuhuh huhuhuhuhuhu cool. he said "comming" huhuhuhuhuhuhhu

this sucks. change it.