I tried Corel's Linux and it was bad for me. Now, there is an other Linux based on that. And, $99, while I can get other cheaper and probably better distributions. Hmmm :-(

Sure, I was gonna try using Lindows. Ta hell with it now. This is getting insane. I would love to see their marketing model. Seems like another bloated Dot Com...

I'll just set up my own Linux box and drop Wine on it...

From the Lindows site:
What do we ask of you?
A $99 membership fee (a great value since you get LindowsOS and TWO years of Click-N-Run, a $228 value!)
Your feedback about our plans, our products and our future direction

Hurry! This special price to become an Insider will be ending soon. Once the General Release is out, pricing for LindowsOS and one year of Click-N-Run will be $129 and the Insider's program will be going to $299.

Microsoft Windows XP Professional Upgrade
Buy new: $199.00
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Buy new: $199.00
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition Upgrade
Buy new: $99.00

And lets not forget that most of the s***ty dot-coms that failed were the ones giving stuff way

giving stuff away for free, that is

I had to give Lindows a shot after hearing so much bashing and complaining about it. Usually when something novel comes out in the Linux community, it's embraced for 2 seconds and then slammed because its no longer the underdog it once was (damn those Linux rebels!).

Anyway, the installation on my Toshiba Satellite went absolutely smoothly. It took all of 2 or 3 steps and was installed in about 8 minutes. I had Redhat 7.3 installed already and just decided to wipe that hard drive with Lindows. So I didn't get to play with the advanced options.

Once booted up and at the desktop, I could immediately see it's a customized KDE. In my opinion that's not a bad thing. For one I'm already familiar with KDE 3 from using RH, and secondly KDE is nice and friendly. Bloated a tad, but friendly. I noted the refresh rate while dragging windows around was much faster than when RH was installed. Windows, icons, and menus come up and respond much better than the RH tortured KDE that was previously installed.

The much touted 'click-n-run' program is a god send. Although I was pleased with Ximian's Red Carpet Express and the RH Update Agent, CnR is much easier to navigate and use. No worrying about dependencies or adding links to the menus manually. Yes yes, it's just a front end for apt-get, but thats a pain to use from the command line.

Given that Lindows is quite dependent on CnR which is in turn dependent on your internet connection, I wouldn't recommend Lindows for anyone without a broadband connection. Given that, the downloads were fast and I didn't have to wait long for stuff to download.

The whole root issue is being blown out of proportion by ego-driven sys admins. Lindows does not come installed with sendmail, apache, or any other listening services that I could see. It uses Mozilla's mail client as a base for e-mail which of course is much safer than say, Outlook, since you can disable Javascript (which is disabled by default in the mail client I believe).

Give it a chance folks - its easy to use, its Linux, its exactly what we've all been wanting. I would recommend it to my Mom, who knows as much about computers as I know about piloting a space shuttle.

Update: Just installed Lindows on my machine at home which already had Win2k Server, XP Pro, and Redhat. I installed over the RH partition using the Advanced option in the installation. Worked like a charm, and the boot loader had no problem detecting the Windows boot menu which is what I was most worried about. Installation was even faster on this machine: just under 3 minutes. It also detected my GeForce 4 Ti4400 without a hitch. Lycoris refused to install with that card, and Redhat had issues with it but ultimately installed with a lesser driver.

Awesome!

One thing I will warn you about from reviews that I have read (since I have not personally tested Lindows). Lindows sets you up as root and that is how you are running when you're logged in. Worse than that, they mentioned the root password was blank. That drops my jaw. I'm hoping I don't have to tell anyone here about how incredibly dangerous that is. One of the best security features of Linux (any UNIX) is that user accounts can and should be restricted and that root is only used when necessary to install software or for maintenance. Running as root can completely destroy everything on your machine (including other OSes you dual-boot) if you oops or get hit with a worm.

This is true, it does set you up as root. It does ask you if you want a password during install. Also, you can of course add new users and change the root password once Lindows is installed.

This issue was discussed in an Ask Michael issue.
http://info.lindows.com/askmichael/question9.htm

*Yes yes, it's just a front end for apt-get, but thats a pain to use from the command line.*
Uhm... yeah... It's aparent you've never even used apt or tried the pathetic version RedHat offers for it's crap of an operating system. I managed to find an iso of Lindows and try it out yesterday and was severely dissapointed with it. After taking a look at the whole 'click-n-run' thing, I did a little poking around (/etc/apt/sources.list) and noticed that it's nothing more than a pay system to apt which is USING DEBIAN'S apt SERVERS! Way to go, Lindows, scum of linux. And for the record, it's not a custom version of KDE, they just replaced all the KDE logos with theirs and call it their own, a pretty low tactic.

DigitalSin, you're problem is that you've been using the so called "arse of Linux" by trying Lycrois and RedHat, two complete jokes of distros. Any true professional or amature wouldn't be caught dead using anything that uses the rpm (ha!) package system. You want a "desktop enviroment that's not Microsoft" (linux is NOT ready for the desktop, but whatever) try LibraNet (http://www.libranet.com), it's not spawned off three other distros and it's... wait a minute... oh yeah, free!

do you work as part of the lindows team or something? your opinions seem very different to everyone else that has tried lindows.

Absolutely not. As a matter of fact I'm a Microsoft developer working at a mostly Microsoft shop. I tinker with Linux in my free time. I'm giving my honest opinion and experience with Lindows.

The whole problem seems to be that nobody wants to see anyone make money off Linux. They think GPL means free and if a company makes money, it somehow is threatening their right to a cheap existence :)

I checked out Libranet, but it does in fact cost money (almost $55).

The good thing about Lindows and RedHat is that both distros are supported by real companies, not a bunch of geeks just spending their college summers trying to make a buck.

I've used RH since ~v6, and have always been pleased with it. Its top quality, easy to install and use, and again is supported by a company. A company I might add that has some vision for Linux. We can all sit around and have religious debates about which distro is better. But when the dust settles, its going to be the home desktop users who are going to decide which is best. Their decision will be on a distro that is less geeked-out and requires no brains to use. If I gave Lindows to my Mom and said "Hey Mom, the software installer is just a front end for apt-get and uses Debian's servers" do you think she'll say "I dont want it then!" or, "Uhmm..this means what to me?".

I like to use my Mom as an example because she's a typical PC user. When she boots up her PC she knows exactly what she's going to do - check email, update her resume, look around the web. Why should she give a mouse fart about the underlying windows manager, kernel version, etc?

Wow. You've obviously got so many of your own problems, I fail to see how you have enough time on your hands to make such wild and unfounded criticisms of others. I think the very nature of your post and your...ahem..."arguments"...display to anyone reading this how much credibility you and your "opinion" actually have. I think a grain of salt would be an understatement for sure. Try a little less caffeine or reach down a bit to unbunch those panties. :)

>>The whole problem seems to be that nobody wants to see anyone make money off Linux

And?

uh huh ok must remember to actually check that the WHOLE of my posts get posted in future! grr

It was intended to say something like, I dont have a problem with people making money from linux. I just expect them to charge sensible amounts. Like the $19 for lycoris. Not the stupid amounts that lindows is trying to charge.

I agree with you on the price, it's a bit steep considering 90% of the apps offered are free on the web. You do get some apps for free which otherwise cost money, such as StarOffice. Of course there is OpenOffice as a free version, but you have corporate support and backing (which is why people still buy MS Office instead of just using OpenOffice).

The only thing I can think of is LindowsOS as a company is playing it safe. They may know that they might only sell 100 units. Selling 100 units at $100 is better than 100 units at $20. They know the average consumer will pick up a Windows XP box and a Lindows box and see XP is significantly more if its not bought as an upgrade. The average consumer probably won't say "Hmm..I can go download and burn an ISO of Lycoris for $80 less".

But who knows for sure why its more costly. I do know that having used both Lycoris and Lindows, Lindows is far far easier to install and use. Perhaps therein lies the cost justification.

In RE to the above comment and the one below by BadKarma:

Hey a$$hole, lighten up. Do you feel better having spewed all this garbage out? I certainly hope so. He said "it's a customized KDE" and that is exactly what you described you moron. You proved his point - obviously, if you change the icons and "feel" of KDE, you are CUSTOMIZING IT!!! I'll sum up my thoughts on all your Debian comments in one: IT's A DEBIAN BASED OS. Once again, rather than starting an argument, you help to prove the point of the person(s) you are attacking.

RedHat is an "arse" of a distro? Try telling that to the several dozen Fortune 500 companies using it, not to mention the hundreds of smaller companies out there who love it. Just because it's not "your" distro of choice - again, lighten up.

"Any true professional..." - See above comment. Furthermore, what's wrong with using a software management tool such as RPM? I see, every person is supposed to be an expert from the get-go and compile their own software? I suppose you knew (and continue to know) each and every little thing there is to know about Linux right?

"It's called "install something Debian based, change the sources.list to us.debian.org, and use apt" wow, so hard!" - Once again, if you openend your eyes and actually paid attention rather than trying to start flame wars, you would see that the OS you are insulting IS Debina based. (See above comments on this too).

I do have to commend you for one thing - proving that even a moron such as yourself feels better about himself, but at the same time making an "arse" out of himself.

I can't see the problem with it. I also purchased it then installed 2.0 which on one machine failed to install but on another installed perfectly. I opted in so I could get Star Office ($69.00 at Sun) even though I was using Mandrake 9.0 (beta). I find Lindows to be nearly ready for prime time. I also use the mother test and frequently update her computer to her horror. She panicked when I took her from Windows 98 to 2000 then again to XP. She thought Lindows was a better version of XP so you can see my point. If a 76 year old can run it and not know it is not Windows then I think it is nearly there. Only the gamers will not appreciate Linux as an alternative OS although Wine may change that as well. I originally was sceptical about Lindows but now that I have it up and running I don't mind buying it at all. I also have 12 compuetrs in the house and it is painful to think what it would cost to do legal upgrades to XP for all of them. Lindows has a "family" license so for that reason alone it makes sense. I enjoyed Mandrake but find the integration better in Lindows. It comes installed with Samba running perfectly, something I have never gotten to work correctly before. I now share everything across the network regardless of which OS is running.

This is the PERFECT software to help users slowly but surely GET AWAY FROM WINDOWS *FOREVER-ever-ever-ev* (echo). Just the fact that it has its roots based on a REAL OS like unix/linux sells me alone. Guys, don't worry about the price because you all know this s*** is gonna wind up on warez sites all over the place (just like windows). WE NEED this. We need this because its the first step (be it a microscopic one) in ultimately freeing INNOCENT and UNKNOWING users from the perils of thEE most INSECURE by default (hell and even after a "lockdown") operating system on the planet. It is just not fair to idiot users that just don't know any better about the insecuries of windows to have to be forced to use it just because its less intimidating to use and has massive hardware/software support. Away windows.. shoo shooo i say! =)

While I don't quite share your anti-Microsoft sentiments quite so enthusiastically, I have to agree that it's a nice step. I'm not for overthrowing Microsoft or for making everyone use Linux - I'm more for *choice*. Right now there's not much of it to be had, but things like Lindows certainly take that first great step! Lindows shows that you can make Microsoft compete by being innovative and working for your money, not suing the hell out of them and crying because you only have $n billion dollars and are disadvantaged =)

Well, i've been reading and i must say, this is one of the friedliest debates i've seen. heh.

for me. Windows is here for good. (on my computer) If i get bored, i'll give these other os' a try, out of boredom of course.

I'm pretty sure that lindows was out before lycoris. but in either case, their just the same, but different.

I dont' think there is anything really big about either of these os' exept for the fact they look similar to another such operating system. oh of course and the ease of installation. (if your installing it to take over the entire drive of course)

other then that, I would have given both these os' a longer trial run however with Lindows, it gave me a s***ty 1024x768 @ 60Hz screen refresh, with NO way of changing it and no documentation on how to change it. With Lycoris, it would not connect me to the internet, but upon talkin to the dns and dhcp servers, it would come up with some s***ty cryptic msg about some beta protocol that lycoris is using. I guess this beta protocol is what prevented me from obtaining an ip address, so i can only assume that dhcp is not supported yet.

but anyways, like i said, Windows is here to stay on my pc as with many other peoples. Linux will NEVER make it to us home users and never out sell Windows (if outsell is the proper word to use). Why this is? well because all the gaming companies and software companies support microsoft, know where the market is and will not discontinue to make win32 software. Not to mention they will not waste their time making a linux version until they see a great market for it, (which there is none at this moment). I mean, why would they all stand to loose money making a linux version of their software? This world is about money and greet. That will not change. Therefor, for a lack of a better word, Linux will always remain a basement operating system.

(in a french accent)um..how d'you say... rip off? !

If you want a version of linux that looks like windows, go for lycoris. If you want to run windows apps, get windows.

If you want to be ripped off, and still only be able to run less than half of your windows apps, buy lindows.

Actually, if you want to get your feet wet in linux, these kinds of products are *exactly* what the doctor ordered.

I'm surprised that people can't keep an open mind about this, because if it weren't for the more "gui-centric" versions of Linux coming out recently, Linux wouldn't have a chance in hell of making it to a decent level of desktop penetration.

I can afford to pay for this, and have, and I can tell you that it's nice to see a linux distro that has an easy installation, as well as somewhere you can go and download and install applications with a single click!

Red Hat, (which I've used since version 6), Mandrake, SUSE, they don't have the ease of installation and configuration that this distro does.

If you haven't seen version 2.0 in action yet, don't scoff. It's very polished, and very easy to use.

This is exactly what linux needs: an "easy" distro for the masses, that will allow the more technical people to get their feet wet into Linux *faster* and more comfortable, so that they *can* move to the more *difficult* areas of Linux, and other distros that may suit their needs better.

I run WinXP, *and* Linux, and I must say this again:

People... keep an open mind and experience different areas. It's the only way to grow outward and learn. Throw away the blinders.

If you're looking for easy, you might want to give Xandros a try too. It is based on the distribution that Corel put out a couple of years(?) ago. I believe they've just recently released a beta or something of their first release. They're a little too watered down for my personal tastes, but I installed Corel's for the heck of it and thought it would have promise. It was very easy and had features that most Windows users would expect.

Although I was turned off by a lot of the anti-Microsoft flames from the linux crowd, when I used linux better than 50% of the time, I always desired something that was as easy to use as Windows. I realized that if Linux was to be successful on the desktop, it needed an interface that any current Windows user would be able to use, and be comfortable with. Corel Linux seemed to be the most promising of these builds, and I actually did some beta testing of their Word Perfect Office Suite. I think they did a great job in capturing those aspects of Windows that make it so successful.
I was very disappointed when they sold off their Linux division. As a newcommer on the market, I haven't seen anything from LindowsOS that has just blown me away yet. I am eagerly awaiting Xandros though, as I think they may still have what it takes to make a more consumer friendly version of Linux.

Normally I don't give my Microsoft opinions unless asked for. That's just me. I don't necessarily have a problem with Windows itself (I dual-boot w/ Win2K), I just have problems with Microsoft as a company and will leave it at that. If you have not checked out a review of the latest beta build of Xandros, here you go: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=1762
It includes a few screenshots as well. It doesn't appear they released their beta for outside testing, though. I agree with you about Windows users needing to feel more at home if companies expect Linux to be successful on the desktop. Personally, it makes no difference to me. I started using Linux about 6 years ago just as something fun to play with on the side. At the time, I had time to kill and enjoyed the tinkering. And starting out with Slackware certainly gave me the means to that end. It was days before I could successfully get X working on my machine. There really was no config for it, so I had to test settings by manually editing all of the config files...and hold my breath that my monitor wouldn't melt. Now that I use it more frequently, I would rather not have to mess with things like that and just use it. I know it will never make it into my workplace. Everything and everyone there is centered around Microsoft products because they don't know of any other options. The only thing non-Microsoft we have is our web server, which is located off-site and not managed in-house. And the software I use to create my projects will never be ported to any UNIX variant, so I know I won't ever be able to switch.

I agree $99 dollars is a bit steep for a Linux Distribution no matter how good. I downloaded the .50 release of Lycoris Desktop/LX and installed it on my MSI K7T Master-S based system with a Amd Duron 900 Cpu in it. It runs very smoothly. The only thing I see that Lycoris could do differently is have Openoffice included with the Distro in addition to Koffice. Otherwise it's perfect for a beginner Linux Distribution. I'm probably going to install Desktop/LX on my 933 Mhz Via-C3 based system I use at work for light word processing, web browsing, and Cd mastering.

FunkyFreddy3k, all that matters is that lindows is trying, no need to put them down. I am a supporter and if you think about it, they need money too to try and keep their project going, i would gladly give $99 to support them, they are trying to do the imposible, and just for that they should be given props. I have faith that in 3 more years they will have succeeded if they keep up at the rate they are going.

I'm all for creating an easier to manage linux distribution but really the UI is not what's important...Hardware detection and configuration is where linux usually lacks and most distribution work too much on the UI and not enough on hardware issues.

Example:

Johnny Doe goes to his local retail shop looking to buy an OS for his new pc, he sees windows for 199$ and sees Lindows for 99$ so he says to himself I think I will save that extra hundred bucks and buy a couple of games or something, Johnny buys Lindows and off he goes to install it. He gets home pops the disk in and clicks this, clicks that, and finally reboots only to find a message saying something like "no screens found"....UH OH, now what is little Johnny Doe going to do...He's going to take his a** back up to the shop and demand his money back so he can buy Windows and never give linux a second thought again.

The above story could have been easily resolved with xf86config or vi and a little hand editing but how is Johnny Doe supposed to know this...He isn't.

my problem with lindows is that they seem to be charging for other peoples work.

Much of the features in Lindows seem remarkably simular to lots of things in lycoris.

To me lindows is, debian, with added wine (codewariors version?), and a few things from lycoris (network browser etc for example). And they have the cheek to charge considerably more for it than lycoris!

"I can afford to pay for this, and have, and I can tell you that it's nice to see a linux distro that has an easy installation, as well as somewhere you can go and download and install applications with a single click!"

This was another feature I suspect they errm borrowed? from lycoris. Lycoris call it "Iris Software Gallery". I havent used it yet, but it seems pretty much the same.

Also to access the lycoris software gallery thing, you only need a lycoris license ($19).

Lindows is membership based, and for $99 you only get one years use of click-n-run I believe. (further two years after that seems to be "up to a $198 value" - although its not exactly clear). $198 for freely available software! *cough!*

BIG difference in prices - that is why I think lindows prices are a rip off.

Did anyone look up top and see that Lindows is based on Xandros?

Yeah I think 99 is a bit much for the click'n'run warehouse, but once you pay for the initial year's worth, if you stick with it, you could learn how linux really works, and install stuff you find on the net by yourself or with a little digging for howto's in your friendly (or not so friendly) user forums on the net.

----------------------
$198 for freely available software! *cough!*
----------------------

the Devil's Own ISO is available on eDonkey and Kazaa, and that costs what, 199 bucks if you bought it? or wait 299 bucks,(corp Professional version) right? Devil's Own is "freely available", right?

Freely available does not necessarily mean "free".

What about RedHat's model: download for free, support costs you out the nose. I think that's the way most Linux distros are, is it not?

TNSTAAFL my friend. Somehow, somewhere, you pay for everything. Ok, so 99 bucks for being an insider and a year's worth on click'n'run isn't a big deal to me, I work for a living and don't see a problem with purchasing a product as long as it lives up to what expectations are set. Honestly, yes, my expectations were lived up to for the most part. In the meantime, I've expanded my horizons, thought outside the Gates(tm)Way of Thinking (windows).

As a person who supports computer users for a living, I know what kind of pain in the rear it is to install software, and all that nonsense for new computer users... I think 99 bucks is a small price to pay to see that someone else has taken the time to package and get software in a easily-accessible format, along with things like module dependencies and required components addressed like it is in click'n'run. It's a novel idea, and who knows, it may make it, it may not. Only time will tell.

What would you pay for a Windows based service like Click'N'Run?

TNSTAAFL - There's No Such Thing as a Free Lunch

Click n run is a good idea. But lindows with click and run for $99 per year, or Lycoris with its version for $19 one off - I know which I'd go for.

"howto's in your friendly (or not so friendly) user forums on the net."

yeah getting flamed as soon as you mention you're a newbie to linux in forums is yet another thing holding linux back.

The only time when people like that get upset is when you jump in and say, "I'm new!! I don't know how to do this! Hold my hand and wipe my ass!" If you at least make some sort of an effort to figure out your problems on your own, then fail, then post a message saying, "Look, I've tried x, y, and z, but am coming up empty. Any ideas?" People will respect the fact that you at least /tried/ and are not just asking for someone to do something /for/ you without any effort on your part.

It's called "install something Debian based, change the sources.list to us.debian.org, and use apt" wow, so hard!

no but there is such a thing as a reasonably priced lunch!

Problem is, I've seen more and more of an elitist snob attitude coming from some members of the linux community. It's not so much of a lack of effort on some people's part that gets my attention so much as a "I'm going to deride you to make my light shine brighter" from these jerks' mentalities that turns prospective Linux learners away. Common decency seems to be a foreign thing to them.

What's even funnier is the converse happens, I know a few people that are total linux/unix hounds, yet they couldn't find Minesweeper if it was shoved in an orifice. The Windows community isn't nearly as hostile to newcomers as the Linux community is.

I wholeheartedly agree: If you show effort, then that should be respected. But in turn, simply telling someone where to look (i.e. pointing them to the obvious RTFM or FAQ) would help a lot too. Too many people think something should be handed to them without effort, but that doesn't give one the right to insult them either.

Then those people are just flat out idiots. :)

I've never ridden anyone like that and for the most part, the lists that I participate on the people do not behave like that. You're always going to find people who are just complete jerks. It's unfortunate that people who tend to be more technologically inclined than others most often act that way because they think they have a leg up on you. This is the case as much with UNIX people as it is with Windows people. Most of the UNIX people you've probably dealt with are actual admins. Those types have notoriously been that way for years. UNIX is a very complex system to manage and can't, for the most part, just be pointed-and-clicked. Having that much "power" tends to inflate egos. Most of the Windows people I've talked to on discussion lists are not necessarily admins, but just average users who can help out. People who do either for a living tend to be the snots of the bunch. Personally, as long as someone is not asking for a handout, I have no problems helping.

Well... I admire anyone who can make a buck from a totally FREE piece of software. Let's look at it this way:

The people that would buy their computer from Walmart, granted I shop there for shampoo, and toothpaste, are not wrking in the industry, and are not technically minded people. These people are not what I would call " mainstream" computer users.

They are my mother, and my Aunt Trudie, or whatever. They have NO idea of what they are buying, and frankly don't care as long as it works.

It totally tweaks me off listening to people whine because they didn't think of it first, or that someone else did all the work and the dork that founded Lindows is making money!!!

Anyone who makes ANY $$$ from Linux is profitting from someone elses work. Anyone, plain and simple. I am all for it. 100%

What about Apples' foray into the not-so-free-free-software arena. Aren't they making money off someone else's work?