ok now i am not the brightest light bulb on the griswold house but i do know a little about this subject. I have experienced more problems in linux than windows. video card drivers are a pain especially with new video cards. I dual boot myself and i can install linux. But knowing what to do when your kernle crashes and what to change in your conf files and you fstab and all this the normal home user wants no hassle. they are not computer geeks they just want to plugin surf the web and read emails from aunt margrette. Linux will never make it to the desktop. Especially if they dont support aol. Cause who owns the internet basically aol and if you don't support them it's over for the desktop world. That is just my take. I don't believe anyone is wrong

and opinions are like buttholes everyone has one and everyones stink except for mine.

I took a look at the screenshots over here:
http://www.activewin.com/screenshots/longhorn/

And lo and behold, what do I see? Panel applets! YES!
About time. Nobody in the reviews seemed to notice them,
but I know panel applets when I see 'em. Gnome and KDE
ave only had them for what, three years now? I didn't
see much variety, but there were at least two different
ones, including a largish analog clock, which is exactly
the sort of thing you'd expect to see in early development
stages. If the API is in place, more useful panel
applets will presumably surface when the product starts
to hit the actual store shelves.

This is a good thing. Panel apps are very convenient.
Good for the users. Good especially for power users.
Now if they'll just beef up cmd.exe, replace Notepad
with a real editor, and sign a deal with ActiveState
to ship with Perl pre-installed...

Good idea,

I would also like native PDF support like OSX.

"replace Notepad with a real editor"
Noooooooooooo!
Notepad's the only Microsoft program I have that's never crashed!

If you want a real editor, there's WordPad and esethey can bundle others with Longhorn *in addition to* Notepad.

I have 'real editors'. I still use Notepad for most editing though because it's so simple - very good for quickly writing/editing things.

I agree that most businesses will not need all the entertainment features, but users are used to the Windows interface now. I'd like to see Microsoft provide templates, policies or installation scripts that strip most of the entertainment functionality. If they want to market it to both consumers and businesses, they need to stop selling it only as a consumer OS.

On the contrary, I think they should revamp and continue to improve the Windows 2000 series as business tools and use things like this to bolster their aiming profits in the home market. Microsoft have always been excellent at producing toys like this for the home hobbyists, but for years in the late 90s, business was foisted with ineffiecient, unreliable and inappropriate family of Win 9x-kernel opperating systems designed for home use. The Win 9x-kernel machines, and the infrastructure that had to be built into otherwise perfectly good networks to accomodate them, have probably cost business billions by acting as the first route of entry for malicious code, system violations, and self-propogating malware.

With Windows 2K we finaly started arriving at what we could start to call a stable, reliable old-fashioned business operating system. Business operating systems aren't about being fun, or pretty, they're about getting stuff done. If you want to get paid to play Quake all day long, then fine, tell *your* MD to buy Longhorn - but give the rest of us an option, because in today's economic climate, I know which of us will still be in a job in six month's time!

Microsoft should fork their Desktop systems into three: first, this... *thing*... second, the Windows2K-family, and third (please) a proper Server-grade set of OSes designed for server use, where relatively obvious things, like being able to remove the desktop (why have it sitting there consuming resources if no one's using it?), can be achieved.

Colophon: I spoke to one of our Sys Admins recently who'd just had to apply a security patch for Windows Media Player to a Windows Datacenter OS. *DATACENTRE*, for freak's sake! Can you imagine an OS *less* likely to be used for playing Media files on? But, he had to apply the patch becaause the *very* *presence* of Media Player made that system vulnerable. Aaand, the patch required a reboot... which took a big chunk of our system off line for about half an hour... Like he said, "that's another 30 minutes of our lives none of us are going to get back!"

Microsoft have got to stop trying to sell us this "one-size-fits-all" software. Sadly, somehow, I don't think they're listening.

microsoft does sell a consumer and seperate business version. It is XP Home and XP Pro.

I installed a Windows 2000 Datacenter sometime ago, and there was no mediaplayer installed at all.

It's called headless mode, and Server 2003 supports it.

Strangely enough, with all platforms - it's horses for courses. It's up to the business to decide which server platform is best for them and what application it is to be used for. Hey, if you don't like AIX,LINUX,MS etc. don't get a job working with AIX,LINUX,MS.

are you even aware that longhorn is a CLIENT OS?

It is not true. Longhorn is not only a Client OS, but it is also going to be a Server Edition. MS is trying to combine the both Client and Server editions to be release at the same time.

It makes me chuckle, I'm an enemy within, an IBM'er that designs and builds MS Web solutions.
I personally am a big fan of LINUX, and beleive the new "Web" edition of MS 2003 is a nervous response and acknowledgement of the potential of LINUX in the server arena.
It's easy to knock M$, we all do it, and the banter flies every day from my AIX, SUN and LINUX cousins, but the reality is, 2000 is a very good server product. Sure, IIS 5 has it's issues, global asa files being in the top 5, but so does apache, so do they all. I work in a community of IT professionals that strive for customer satisfaction. O/S is selected that suits the customers requirements, not point scoring or lemming attitude.

One of the most frustrating things I find are armchair windows server guru's, that have never deployed it in the enterprise world. We have regular contact with MS, and our feedback is always the same.. "when will you change the server GUI from the desktop!!..." It's great for marketing, it's great for kiddies, but it's a pain in the bum for the IT trade! I really need outlook express, media player and lots of bloatware on my business critical DB or Web server.
In the Novell days, you had a server that been up for 18 months, in M$ land this is a dream, we are vunerability and hot fix mad. This is where Microsoft fall foul of their own success, they are the target of every script kiddie on the planet, but sys admins must remember any patch or SP introduces its own risks to stability, customer apps, bespoke code etc. Look at your environment, does this latest panic actually effect you? Do your fire walls already block it, are you not actually running network doom on your mail servers? We probarbly only update our boxes with about 60% of the released patches. Each new vulnerability is fully tested, and if proved completely irrelevant to our enviroment, why introduce extra risk? I've applied those hotfixes to NT4 and watched my customer blue screen in front of me, we've all been there!

So who comes out on top in the server world? We recently had a costing review.
The most expensive - SUN
Next AIX
Next LINUX
Cheapest MS

Surprised? So was I. Its all down to what the customer wants. Bearing in mind we are talking about big web solutions 100 servers +, the advantages of domains and AD seem to sell. SUN and AIX suffer from the high hardware prices. Another interesting stat, the most sys admin labour intensive O/S....... MS :)

So whats the point? Stop the naive lemming knocking of M$ products, be objective. God knows they have their flaws, but as a serious O/S they are in the ring, as is LINUX, AIX and SUN, who's the best, you decide. I'm a techie, pay me a fee, I'll say whatever you want to hear.............

Excellent points. There is always the right tool for the job, and depending on the application any server architecture could be viable. There is no single answer, unfortunately. As with any statistic, everyone has benchmarks to their advantage.

sorry pithhelmet but i totally disagree with you on that one. the windows update is tooo freakin annoying. always popping up telling you to update for secuity holes. and your saying that you do care about them well you should cause anyone can get into your system and mess it up. i mean are you that lazy to do the updates on your own that you need some crappy progie to do them for you!!!! so keep thinking that is sooooooooooooooooooo fantastic cause in reality it really isn't fantastic its really annoying.

Start -> Settings -> Control Panel -> Automatic Updates

Disable it. Nobody forces you to connect to Windows Update except for the person behind the keyboard.

If you're bothered by Windows always reminding you to install updates, then disable it as already mentioned. You can also set Windows to update for you automatically without your intervention.

I think Microsoft's software should be known for the choices you get, and the ease to which you can make them. So make some choices, instead of complaining about the default settings.

This single addition to the OS was, and IMHO, is by far the BEST addition to the Windows lineup to date!

I don't care how many security "holes" there are, as long as the system can download an update, and fix itself...

The AS/400 people out there are already used to the qume and PTF tapes as well as the peepz at IBM dialing in to make modifications....

I feel very confident in stating that you linux people would NOT open your machine to let an open source developer come into your machine and make modifications, insert or remove drivers and the such.

RedHat Network is better than Windows Update by far. Optional e-mail notifications of errata and package updates (for ALL software on your system installed through it, not just the OS). You don't have to be in front of the machine, or even connected to the machine you want to install updates or new packages to - you can do it all through their web interface, remotely even. They offer a fairly lengthy demo period of it as well.. I have yet to have any of these updates or patches cause any crashes of any sort on my firewall or desktop in the year or so that I have been using the service (for free). I do still use WinXP on my desktop for games, however - the one area that Linux still lacks in as a desktop OS, in my opinion - and the reason why I am still interested in MS products such as Longhorn.. ;)

dubstar said:
"You don't have to be in front of the machine, or even connected to the machine you want to install updates or new packages to - you can do it all through their web interface, remotely even. They offer a fairly lengthy demo period of it as well.."

So, they can install things on your machine without remotely. Do they ask for your password, or is there a guest account they use? Either way it is a security risk.

Also presumably as they offer a demo period, they charge eventually?

Admittedly, you don't have to use it, but you don't have to use Automatic Update in Windows either?

It runs as a daemon under the root account and checks for updates at intervals. You need a password to login to it both on the actual machine (unless logged in as root), and on the webpage. In my mind it's less of a security risk than not installing the updates.

The way the demo period is working right now is that they will extend it for 2 months for filling out a short survey (5 multiple choice type questions). At the end of the two months they will ask you to fill out another survey. The price for a year subscription to the service was $60, I believe.

I guess they could install things on your machine if they really wanted to.. I imagine MS could if they really wanted to as well. But then that wouldn't get either company very many customers now would it? Regardless, I don't suggest updating ANYTHING automatically, on either Windoze or Linux.. Just personal experience..

i have to say this but i have been a linux user for almost about a yeah and its truly the best os in the world. you have to love open source. why should i spend hundred of dollars on an os that is always crashing and needs updating every freakin day. for linux all you have to update is your kernel if there is a newer one out. and the best part of it is that you do not need to restart you computer a million freakin times to get it working. and if there is a newer distro than the one you are running all you have to do is update the packages and your done. last time i remember when i updated my windows system....it got really messy that i had to format my whole machine and loose everything that was installed. and for the guy that was talkin about if linux supports more games.... well there are some games made for pc that are also made for linux but not all. just remember linux is not ment from gaming but i do believe that it will one day support all game with no doubt in my mind. if you wanna run game install windows for now. plus you can donwload something called vmware and have windows running in a virutal pc window in linux and i have tested it out and i run photoshope my self on there and it works great you might wanna try that out.but lets face it people microsoft is getting to the point where its going to tell everyone what they can and can not have on their own computer so i tell microcrap to go to hell for it. no one can tell me what i can and can not have on my pc. so everyone that supports microsoft better think about what you are buying next time you are at compusa or where ever you shop at.

"i have to say this but i have been a linux user for almost about a yeah"

you're a linux user?! nahhhhh you're not are you?! its not obvious at all! oh wait, you cant even spell "year" so yeah I guess that figures.....

"just remember linux is not ment from gaming"

You're right. Linux is meant to be a toy for geeks... which after all these years is STILL all it really manages to be good at. Sure its an OK desktop OS, but there are better (windows/OSX). Sure its a good server OS, but there are better (windows for file/print sharing, BSD/solaris/AIX for enterprise/web services).

"but i do believe that it will one day support all game with no doubt in my mind"

good grief what planet do you come from exactly?! Exactly how does linux ever stand a chance of achieving your dream?

"plus you can donwload something called vmware and have windows running in a virutal pc window in linux and i have tested it out and i run photoshope my self on there and it works great you might wanna try that out"

yeah, vmware is great... but its a far better idea to run windows as the host OS so that you can run games at full speed, and just have linux as the guest OS as you wont be doing much intensive with that toy of an OS anyway.

"but lets face it people microsoft is getting to the point where its going to tell everyone what they can and can not have on their own computer so i tell microcrap to go to hell for it"

um yeah right. DRM in the OS will only ever control files with built in rights features anyway. MS will never be able to change a setting one day that suddenly says that no one can have MP3s or whatever because they know it would stop people upgrading.

hey i just came across this and found it pretty damn funny..
http://xbox-linux.sourceforge.net/index.php linux on a microsoft product....now you tell me FunkyFred3k how did linux get on a microsoft product????? gee it was hacked like every single windows os that they ever made was hacked. that tells me that microsoft can not provide a secure and STABLE OS. They can't even do it with their famous Gaming system. Once again linux dominates windows and it will continue to dominate windows through out all of the computer era. if you like it or not you will one day convert to linux beause of microsoft becomming MicroCrap oh wait they already have!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Ever heard of something called Palladium?? Guess not. It's not *JUST* DRM that Microsh!t is working on...thats only the beginning. It gets A LOT WORSE!

Linux is a FAR BETTER SERVER OS than MS. The simple fact that you stated MS is a better file / print server makes me think you've never used Linux. Or it was **too tough** and only GEEKS know how to use it. BS! If your gonna be a server admin, then you need to know what your doing. Doesn't MS charge for that privlage? Something about a MSCSE? Can Windows handle multiple clusters properly? Does it know what LPD is? How about that God forsaken web server they call IIS(Instantly Insecure Server)? Been hacked lately?

IBM DROPPED Aix in favor of Linux on ALL E-Series servers...Sun is too expensive for small and medium size businesses. Linux is where it's at jack.

I have no dillusions about Linux gaming. Unfortuantely thats the only reason I have a Windows box. They have the Office suite and desktop *idiot* market ninche..which will ensure there survival. No doubt about that...

*Build a system even a fool can use and only a fool will want to use it!*

The good news to your rebuttal is that there are fewer and fewer people doing it nowadays. They have all been burned from one ms 'feature' or another.

In the field the other day, a ceo of a company asked why his xp laptop kept dieing, i told him the truth: its designed to die so you have to upgrade or call ms support. He told me to take the laptop and call ms support. I did, sortof, i got the secretary in the office to do it.

Hows this, i'm sure someone will appreciate this story. After waiting on the phone queue for 15minutes and informing the first person that the client was a gold partner, we got to some guy and he immediately hung up on us. The second time, the person got us to go through the event log and got us to turn off the "Routing and Remote Access" service, got us to reboot and hung up before we noticed that no networking was now working.

3rd call resulted in another hang up mid-problem. Remembering that they were hanging up in mid-sentence, and that we have informed them that we calling on behalf of gold partners, we thought that we would try one more time, for which we got hung-up on again.

Result of ms-tech support was this: a laptop that kept bluescreening now was a laptop that we could not get onto the local network to copy the files off so we could rebuild it.

Apparently, the ceo complained to some marketing guy and has had a little more progress than the formal way. apparently some windows production guy will look at his dump logs in the next day or so (2 weeks after we called them up for help with their own products), but in the meantime he has already rebuilt his laptop to xp, and called us up yesterday asking why he is missing dll's after running a windows update ... *sigh*

Iv been hearing that linux will dominate for the last ooo about 7 years maybe? it aint happened and probably never will.

Linux is a toy and thats all it is. always has been and always will be.

I believe to run linux on the xbox it requires a mod chip to get around the security. Hardly easily hacked eh? And considering mod chips have been around for pretty much all other consoles for years as well the xbox definitely cannot be said to be less secure. This argument kinda runs parallel to the security issues in linux vs windows argument that linux users refuse to accept.

Linux needs physically modified xbox to run. Recall that no computer system is safe when others have physical access.

"The good news to your rebuttal is that there are fewer and fewer people doing it nowadays. They have all been burned from one ms 'feature' or another."

exactly because every MS software release for the last few years has been more stable than the previous. Linux users can no longer laugh at the stability of MS products because with good drivers (as with all OS's - I suspect that is the problem with the laptop you talk about) MS OS's are pretty darn stable.

Or are you attempting to hint that people are dumping MS products? if thats so, then how come in a recent survey 95% of internet users were using IE? huh? ;o)

http://www.theregister.c...tent/archive/28601.html

plz let me know when linux supports coldfusion mx with flash mx communication server, and or linux has a product which can compete with it natively. emulating windows in linux makes 0 sense in a web server environment. there are certain things you just cant do in linux which include server tasks. there are pros and cons to each. why cant you people just understand that. no one cares which one is best. if you like yours shut up and like it. if he likes his leave him alone. no ones going to take your precious linux away from you. its open source. get over it.

'You're right. Linux is meant to be a toy for geeks...' ... 'but there are better (windows for file/print sharing, BSD/solaris/AIX for enterprise/web services)'

Funny you should say that, MS seems to be pretty concerned about this particular Toy... The people running betanews seemed to find the toy suitable enough to run their web server... And you mention two OSes developed by companies that seem to have recently shown ALOT of interest in Linux. Interesting indeed...

'good grief what planet do you come from exactly?! Exactly how does linux ever stand a chance of achieving your dream?'

Actually there are more and more games released for Linux each year. Anything OpenGL seems to be fairly trivial to port. SDL even more so. TransGaming is making progress on running Win games under Linux. Unreal Tournament 2003 was recently released on Windows and Linux at the same time, a NeverWinter Nights port is in development for both Linux and Mac. As Linux comes into use more as a desktop platform there will be more and more developers who notice it and begin developing for it.

'um yeah right. DRM in the OS will only ever control files with built in rights features anyway. MS will never be able to change a setting one day that suddenly says that no one can have MP3s or whatever because they know it would stop people upgrading.'

And what is to stop EVERY file from having built in rights features? They all have an author of SOME sort associated with them. Through EULA's that change with updates, a'la Windows Update, that no one ever reads, they can pretty much do whatever they want to your computer. Who cares if it stops you from upgrading, you'll probably be on a subscription plan by THAT time anyways - wanna switch to Linux then? Oops, you bought a computer with DRM mandated hardware that won't run anything but MS software, as to protect the 'rights' of copyright holders.. Sorry..

Alas... Now I have said too much.. Better go find my foil hat!!!

Some interesting points here.. and although I think Windows servers are great for certain apps - SQL, Exchange etc, I fail to see when it became such a great file and print server... well maybe print, but certainly not file. One NOS seeming to be overlooked here is Netware... someone wake me up when windows based servers provide the throughput and stability of a netware box. We had a powercut at my work the other day... I had to down the Netware boxes for the first time since the last powercut - some 2 years! Fair enough, NDS (or e-directory) licensing may be expensive but I don't know of anyone who has seen that sort of uptime from a windows box... let's face it, if you could get one to stay up that long you'd be about 4 service packs behind!!

Linux Rules.
Thats the truth. I'm an IT manager, and when I switch the servers to penguin, forget about buggy, unstable, and expensive M$. Forget reboots!!
The only problem, with Linux is that Window$ is what it is, because of applications. Imagine if you have all that aplications for Linux (and I'm not talking about M$ aplications).
The only thing I install from M$ is the core of win NT in my machine, the rest are aplications (open office for instance, filezilla, mozilla, VNC, etc.)
Using M$ aplications is sick, is virosick... All virus in the company I work were bringed for us by....
M$ applications... (said M$ outlook, office macros, IIS, etc)

But in servers...
Forget Microsh!t. LINUX RULES!!!!... as you said.

I think in two years not more, linux will rule everything in OSes.

Ever do a search for this "Most vulnerable operating system" on Google?

What comes up as the most vulnerable?

Oops!

TransGaming is like most things in linux... following (some distance behind) what microsoft does.

By its nature, it will NEVER be fully compatible. So as all the game developers are happily working with the latest directx APIs that are already in directx, transgaming is still trying to implement the APIs.

I don't think Linus Torvalds or the many other Open Source developers who put time and work into Linux, were even considering Linux as a gaming platform when he/they began working on it, so of course it's behind MS products - many of which were designed from the start FOR the desktop.

The fact that it can even run games meant for Windows is pretty damned impressive in the first place... And you obviously have no graphics programming experience if you think anyone 'happily' works with DirectX APIs (or ANY MS APIs for THAT matter).

TransGaming may never bring it's APIs into full compatibility with DirectX, but they're only one of many efforts to bring video games to the Linux desktop. Developers themselves are working on native ports, OpenGL drivers are being developed for Linux by most video card manufacturers nowadays, OpenGL itself is being improved, there are libraries like SDL now to support the non-gfx related aspects of game programming.. So - say what you want, but Linux has, and will continue to make progress in ALL areas.. So long as Open Source/Commercial programmers are willing to put their time and effort into it.

And here is another great article from the register on IE:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/29621.html

Ummm..... Well this 1/100th of a percent of people on the internet using IE is using IE in Wine to chat in MSN chatrooms ONLY!! heh....

"Why should I spend hundred of dollars on an os"

Why should I spend all day installing a worthless operating system, waiting hours to get my hardware to work and using inferior products such as Star Office.

Windows does not always need updating, and come to think of it, it hardly ever needs to be restarted. Perhaps you don't know what you are doing.

Linux, will never have any good support for games. It don't even have good support for the hardware you need to run them.

And I have moved from Windows 98 > Windows 2000 > Windows XP, no problem at all. Once again, you must have pressed some wrong buttons.

There are also many more hole in your argument against Microsoft, but without Microsoft, you would be using a MAC right now.

"I think in two years not more, linux will rule everything in OSes."

*yawn*. like iv said many times before. people have been saying "in x years time linux will rule everywhere" for at least the last 6 or 7 years. It aint happened. Get over it.

Netware reliable?

We have Netware, Win2K and NT servers at the Uni were I work. The Netware servers go down far more regularly than any of the Microsoft OS servers (one of these has more than two years of continues uptime).

Ok, first of all, as a mass based server OS, yes, Linux is great. But, as for Linux taking over or whatever...sorry, never will happen. 30% of the country still have people who can barly turn on the PC, let alone recompile your kernel everytime there is an update. If I see any OS taking over, it will no doubt be Lindows. That is a more user friendly OS with the power of Linux. If anything, Linux is dead in a home based world. I've been using windows since 3.1, didn't like the stabillity till 2000 and above. Now with XP and Longhorn on the way, it gets better. Yes, MS tried to baby you too much in some of their programs, but home-based computers is what makes or breaks a type of software, not the 10% of you linux users. I have used linux 6, 7, and 8 at home. You know what it was used for? Maajong. It was useless to me. Just the other day I took Linux 8 off my box and put Server 2003 on and bought Maajong for $10. Lindows impresses me, Linux does not, and Windows will always be on one of my PCs.

'30% of the country still have people who can barly turn on the PC'

30% of the country still have people who can barely READ and WRITE, let alone turn on a PC. This means nothing though. Linux/*BSD can be done just as easily as Windows. Look at OS X, for example...

'If I see any OS taking over, it will no doubt be Lindows.'

Err.. Lindows IS Linux. It's based on Debian.

'but home-based computers is what makes or breaks a type of software'

I think businesses dump a lot more money into software than home users ever have.

Check this out:

http://www.softwaremag.com/SW500_2002/SW500.cfm

The top 15, with the exception of Microsoft, are all writing software for businesses. IBM, Oracle, Compaq(HP) and Sun (4 of the top 15) all have interests in Linux.

IBM alone probably made more from it's software and services than the all of the companies writing software for 'home users' put together.

'I have used linux 6, 7, and 8 at home.'

There are no Linux 6, 7, or 8. There are RedHat 6, 7, and 8 though. RedHat doesn't even include all of the open source software available on the net for many Linux/*BSD distros - because there is a great deal of it out there..

An OS is what you make of it. If you made it into a machine that was only useful for playing mahjong, I would say thats your fault, not the fault of the OS.

I'm sure Windows Server 2003 is a great environment to play mahjong in... but I personally can't afford $999 USD to BUY it - whereas Linux (RedHat 8.0 specifically) has cost me nothing.

'using inferior products such as Star Office'

There are options besides Star Office - openoffice.org, abiword, gnumeric, gnucash - or run MS Office under crossover office if you really like it that much..

'Windows does not always need updating'

Are you sure this is Windows you're talking about? You realize that they have a website with a critical update released on an almost weekly basis? You should check it out:

http://www.windowsupdate.com

'it hardly ever needs to be restarted. Perhaps you don't know what you are doing.'

K. I used to work in a tech support environment, and unless you never use your computer for anything (and especially so before 2000/XP), it needs to be restarted on a regular basis. All of the major updates downloaded from Windows Update generally require your machine to be rebooted, along with a number of applications, drivers, and those nasty blue screens...

'Linux, will never have any good support for games.'

Already been through this elsewhere in this thread.

'It don't even have good support for the hardware you need to run them.'

It do too! Although I am not sure what them are, or whether I would want to have them run - but it supported all of my hardware with a base install of the last 5 versions of RedHat. I had to install drivers from NVIDIA to get my 3d acceleration to work, though.. rpm -ivh NVIDIA*.. It was rough..

K. I used to work in a tech support environment, and unless you never use your computer for anything (and especially so before 2000/XP), it needs to be restarted on a regular basis. All of the major updates downloaded from Windows Update generally require your machine to be rebooted, along with a number of applications, drivers, and those nasty blue screens...

I'm gonna have to disagree with the comment in there about only not having to restart if you never used your computer. I use my computer (Windows XP) daily, doing development work among other things, and i also have multiple interactive users that use the machine on a daily basis, both through RDC and locally. My machine has to be restarted maybe once a month, probably less. According to uptime.exe i have 99.998% uptime over the last 6 months. I haven't seen a BSoD since Windows 200 RC1. Maybe i'm just lucky but i seriously don't think i'm alone.
I'll agree with you that it has gotten seriously better with Win2k and WinXP. But that's called progress. That's what companies do. If i didn't want to buy a Ford because the Model T was just too slow, i think people would yell at me alot :)

ya, Windows 200, i can type. You all know what i meant :)

I'll admit, XP is the best thing to happen to MS on the OS front. It's finally stable and I don't have to look at blue screens. A far cry from WinMe (what a joke that was). I look at all the "features" they are adding to Longhorn and all I see is eye candy. Is it me or are they dumbing down this OS? They want to change the file system so the OS can put files where it wants? I think history has shown us what happens when an MS OS takes charge of things. Anybody go to Windows Update lately? Everytime I go back there's a new security fix. And with this background indexing always going on, I'm using CPU power that I don't need to use. With the current file system I can open explorer and orginize everything in my own "Common Sence" manner. MS has no common sence. Where are they going to put my files? Anybody try using the search feature in XP? It's like trying to hack into the CIA website. Imagine having to do that to look for that important doc that you can't remember the name of, but Longhorn hid somewhere for you.

I think XP will be my last MS OS that I take part in. If Linux could support games and have a good win emulator for Photoshop and other needed progs I'd be in heaven. Better yet, let's get Mac's OSX ported over to x86.

I wish i could agree with you on your first statement, "XP is finally stable", but i cannot. XP is a little stable after the release of sp1, but i still see accelerated os degredation as bad as winme, i can probably get a months use of winxp until daily bsod's become my reason to rebuild.

You may be closer to running that *nix machine than you think. I refer you to an article written by someone much smarter than myself (Dru Lavigne) at http://www.onlamp.com/pu.../21/FreeBSD_Basics.html and draw your attention to this paragraph:

"One of the neatest things about FreeBSD is that if it is running on a dual-boot computer, you don't have to exit FreeBSD to access data contained on the other operating system's partition. It is a simple matter to mount the other partition and to then read, write, or even delete the files contained on that partition. Ah, but what about running executable files, you may ask? If that other operating system is made by Microsoft and you're running the Windows emulator (Wine) on your FreeBSD system, it is possible to run many Windows applications from your FreeBSD system."

Check at http://www.winehq.com/ to see if your application can run under WINE.

Or alternatively check out alternative applications. I have used Photoshop on my Windows 2000 box, but I have a separate FreeBSD box that runs the Gimp (www.gimp.org). Gimp has most of the features of Photoshop and for the less adept users you can use the Gimp equivalent of Photoshops filters, which are scripts. There are also custom patterns, palettes, brushes, gradients and fonts..just like Photoshop.

*switches to market trader mode*
You can get this all...yes all...FreeBSD, WINE and the Gimp for the one off, knockdown price of...bugger all. Yes folks, zip, nada, nuttin', zero dinero.

*market trader mode off*

But seriously, it gives you options. I will never get rid of my Windows machine because I need it for certain things which it is more convenient for. But you can run a version of *nix relatively painlessly.

I am not going to enter a long diatribe about Linux vs. BSD, as this is not the right place. Suffice is to say there are differences and Linux users prefer Linux and BSD users prefer BSD

Fred out

"Check at http://www.winehq.com/ to see if your application can run under WINE"

please stop!! ooo the pain from laughing so much!!!!!!

Maybe you should take a look at software other than the OS which you are running - my XP machine definately slows down as I pile more crap (aka software) onto it, but daily bluescreens are not normal behaviour for XP.. Win95/98/ME - quite normal.. 2k - depends what you have installed.. XP - abnormal.

Most common causes of problems while I was in tech support were crappy software (most of which all included 5 spyware programs each), followed by viruses, followed by crappy drivers (anything from ATI, for example)..

Maybe you should take a look at software other than the OS which you are running - my XP machine definately slows down as I pile more crap (aka software) onto it, but daily bluescreens are not normal behaviour for XP.. Win95/98/ME - quite normal.. 2k - depends what you have installed.. XP - abnormal.

Most common causes of problems while I was in tech support were crappy software (most of which all included 5 spyware programs each), followed by viruses, followed by crappy drivers (anything from ATI, for example)..

Yeah, XP is far more stable than any other Microsoft OS I have used (even the mighty Win2K had problems occasionally). It is also more stable IMO than Mac OSX (which I am currently testing for possible integration into our Windows 2000 Active Directory forest). I always found that Win 95,98,98Se and ME could be a bit flaky. Anything based on the NT core (NT, 2000 & XP) has always been rock solid. In fact, I think that ME was a case of "Oh crap, we haven't released a Consumer OS in 2 years, we'd better release one quick".

I can't really comment on how reliable Linux is, as I haven't really used it since 1998 (did a lot of project work on it at Uni). I have to admit, the only complaint I ever had about Linux is the lack of support for non-standard hardware, which is less of an issue now.
I remember the problems I had getting my Aztech soundcard (hey, I was a student and couldn't afford anything better) working.

I am not sure Linux will ever have the impact on the games market that Windows (and the consoles) have had. I am not knocking Linux, it simply wasn't designed for gaming. Ever since MS came up with DirectX, they seem to have been designing their OS's with gaming in mind.

PS, Windows doesn't need to be restarted that much. We have Win2K servers here that have been running 2 years without a reboot. The only reason they have only been running for 2 years is that we only built our current server room 2 years ago.

But, having said that, as Nate (I think) said above, you pick the right tool for the job. If you need (or want) to use Linux and it can do what you need, use Linux. The same goes for Windows, Mac OS, FreeBSD or any OS.

I'm sure systems above 1GHz could handle the ability to stanmp usefull info into the properties of documents in windows. As it is now all you get is the date/time created (which is always posted incorrectly; whenever you move a document it makes a new "date created" entry).

What I'd like to see is all the exact info for every doc. EI; If I make a document on my PC "JohnnySkidmarks" at 2:55PM, then I'd want to see a time/date/created by/path(location) stamp stay with that for the entirety of that document's life (obviously if people hack this feature then so be it; nothing is secure 100% blah blah blah...)

additionally I'd love to see every move that document makes stay encoded in the properties (within reason; obviously I don't want to know how many thousands of users named BrittnyFanChanXXX have used the new MP3 I just downloaded from Kazaa.) So if that doc gets copied from my comp to the comp "HotRod11" by user Stevo then that info stays with that doc. Maybe in some advanced properties diaglog option inside Properties.

Parc interface, cutting edge since 1984.

Stuff I'd like to see...

1) rewindable desktop (ie. fluid multiple undos system wide)
2) helper tools/objects instead of programs (like Apple bombed with um OpenDoc I think was the name. but way better than having 20 seperate dictionaries in 20 bloated crapware apps)
3) desktop that supports zoom/pan [+] [-]
4) Files/folders that don't need to be 'opened' - just zoomed in on. ie) not an 'icon' of a gif but the gif itself

This is all stuff that computers are fast enough to deal with now. Maybe someone'll do this stuff on Linux someday.

I'll give them credit for supporting multiple files w/ same name. That's sensible.

Stuff I'd like to see...

1) rewindable desktop (ie. fluid multiple undos system wide)
I'd rather see non-linear undos. Undo that step I made 5 steps ago but don't undo everything in between.

2) helper tools/objects instead of programs (like Apple bombed with um OpenDoc I think was the name. but way better than having 20 seperate dictionaries in 20 bloated crapware apps)
You mean like the way UNIX pipes make everything interoperable with everything else?

3) desktop that supports zoom/pan [+] [-]
You mean line the X-Window-System?

4) Files/folders that don't need to be 'opened' - just zoomed in on. ie) not an 'icon' of a gif but the gif itself
You mean like with Nautilus of the GNOME desktop?

Linux has it 3 out of 4.

Great. Another Microsoft Operating System named after a pub and built by drunkards.

Operating System: a software program which manages system resources and makes them available to other software programs.

Microsoft Operating System: a software program which sits betweent the user and their hardware, consuming as many resources as possible, while selectively killing tasks which are not native to its own running, and which it finds threatening. "This program has performed an illegal opperation (it asked to become a foreground task) and will be shutdown [OK]".

Any experienced user should know better than to think that Windows XP or above is simply an Operating System. They're obviously designed to provide the user functionality way beyond mediating applications.

If you want a stable, simple Microsoft OS, then use Windows 2000. Don't even bother to think that any Windows above Win2k is meant to function only as an OS.

Well, yes, I will... right up until Microsoft pull the plug on Windows 2000 (which will be as soon as they think they can get away with it, I'd imagine). Damn, where am I supposed to buy from if Microsoft no longer want to provide me with a humble Operating System? I know it's a damn silly thought, but I *like* operating systems. They allow me to manage my own system resources, because I live under the nighted notion that they're mine, rather than being rented from The Party.

Who wants an operating system (a place where where you can run your _own_ software) when you can instead choose to live in this giant command-driven superstate, in which the Party will provide for everything, as long as you queue long enough for it.

No, this looks like a retreat into a proprietary dead end, to me. By the time Microosft have this baby ready, I guess they'll have completed their bust-up with Intel, and we'll be left with no option but to buy Microsoft hardware, to run our Microsoft software, and obtain our Microsoft security updates.

That option already exists, guys: it's called OS X.

Anyway, when it does arrive, I hope they make the case all transparent, so we can see their insides and stuff. That'd be cool! Wow, look! The applications make their icons bounce up and down, in order to distract you, while they try to summon enough system resources to actually tell you anything! Cool! What's that? "The application can not be shut down because the system requires a reboot!" Cool!

Oh well... if it all turns out too turgid, I guess they can glom it all into some dead branch of the Unix tree with a non-standard C compiler and a truely bizare filesystem, in order to try and rescure their credibility. At least no one's ever thought of doing that, yet.

* cough * OS X? Home of the least efficient graphical environment ever to hit the BSD kernel?

1 word: Linux

you realize you're posting this on a 2k3 board right? *cough*

also the best looking interface to ever bless that turd.

Most definitely. I considered that when phrasing it the way I did, but decided it's important to include Windows XP as well. So for anyone else, please substitue 2k3 for XP in my post. AFAIC, either OS can be used in my previous statement.

I see your point now. Though I personally am moving away from rough-edged, do-it-yourself OSes and software (like Win2k, and more notably Unix), I can certainly understand that others are not. I think Microsoft realizes what responsibility it has for its consumers, and thus makes Windows much more than an OS. However, there are still tons of power users out there (myself included, particularly in the work environment) who appreciate the Win2k OS for what it is.

Would you say that OSX is significantly more, sig. less, or equally inefficient to OS 9? I don't use Mac's much, but find it hard to believe that Apple would survive this long with an inefficient OS.

anyone dispute that the M$ advance research center is Apple Computers?

Does anyone dispute that Apple stole the User interface from Xerox Parc? Parc had a machine running in the late 70's whose UI bore a striking resemblance to early Macs.

seems that everyone who doesnt have a clue where to find a copy are all getting jealous and screaming "fake! fake!" ..... well err sorry but they arent fake. 4008 isnt fake. winbeta was almost as bad as you lot when it screamed "fake!!!" just because someone other than themselves had released it!

you're all muppets. :)

As for the guy who thinks just adding windowblinds/stylexp/whatever to w2k makes it look just like longhorn.. you've got a very simplistic view of what it takes to make one OS look like another! W2k will never be able to look exactly like longhorn or even just XP because half the GDI+ APIs are missing or not as good in w2k as they are in XP/longhorn.

oh, Mr Gates, we were wondering where you were.

Looks good but
windows is like a movie actor
needs constant face lifts, more makeup, more money and more perks.

Great product....... very promising... I love it!!

But it requires heavier-duty systems than ever due to its great visual enhancements.

Good job Microsoft!

I don't need animations. animations are nice for people first time using a computer. I like to have things happen at the click of the mouse...i hate waiting.

I agree, although it's quite nice, but one thing you can say are those "high spec computers that once ran win95" can't run this even if it barely runs XP.

and some 800MHz comps probably can't take all the actions here smoothly either.

http://home.online.no/~msols/lh/4008/

That is also fake. The real screen shot is here, from an the latest Intel IDF confrence: http://www.anandtech.com...doc.html?i=1787&p=4

Scroll down half way.

it may be real, but it's not longhorn.

those screens are real but they are not longhorn.... all that stuff can be done with ease with all the stardock applications from icnon packager to window blinds. i have done and made it look like the "longhorn desktop....but i did manage to get a hold of the 36** build but when i was installing it was the windows xp installation. it did not say anything about longhorn. and most of the stuff in that build did not work. i guess it was a early alpha or something not too sure. plus its not going to be out for a while so don't get all excited about it.....its going to be the same disapointment as windows xp was. i give everyone my word on that.

http://web.matrix3000k.c...x3000k4.matrix3000k.com/

here are some screenshots i took of my windows xp desktop making it look like windows longhorn desktop but using stylexp and window blinds... and all i had to do was donwnload the wallpaper that had "windows longhorn" therefore you can tell the other screenshots are FAKE.....lol i hope everyone gets a kick out of these and finally understand that ANYONE can make their windows look like another OS lol..... for cyring out loud i can make my linux desktop look like windows xp but i would be Dissing linux like that. if anyways is interested in looking at some of my linux screen shots you can go to http://www.matrix3000k.com/screens enjoy everyone

Sorry, but why not longhorn???

its quite known that they were using a windowblinds theme for it... even said it in their forums... too bad i can't find the link to the skin they used though.

because it said it wasn't longhorn right on the page with the pictures.

***
** Well . . . it´s looks OK, `guess. Certainly it is no easy task to make a new OS from scratch. Think `bout the compability issues , and designin´new Hardware and special software for it... Every step forward in an OS is good for everyone (in things features , stability and security) If the People will like `em? I guess yes. People buyed even Windows ME

I will sure test it on my own when it´s final, but . . .

***
===> the only thing i don´t like is that Palladium thing (or NGSCP, guess). That is too much for me. But anyway guys , like i said before : "Shake or STop the Paranoia" , or hasn´t come anytime a crack or a patch to deactive or surpass those protections?

[ even if those are already in the hardware built :-O ]

or you can run and take refuge with your old MS-DOS 6.22 copy in your old bunker . . . where Bill won´t find you.

What do you think?

eL MaesTro
*******************
Soy Principio y FiN

PS. SO you´re the decided N°1 Microsoft hater , then go for FreeBSD , and dont go wrong with Linux

Pallidium, which is now called NExt Generation Secure Computing platform can be turned of at the OS level, its optional. Let's not get so worked up about things until you have the facts. This goes for everybody! The OS won't be out for a while.

they're not making an os from scratch. They're using LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of already written code. Its more like a bigger improvement.

once again microsoft is telling how great longhorn is going to be just like "how great" windows xp was. i will not be surprised that the final build will still have many bugs in the os and i am sure there will be that annoying little icon that shows up in the taskbar to update windows. i mean i am a windows user but lately microsoft is getting worse with their os. i am a windows 2000 user and i think that is the best os they have ever made. but other than windows 2000 LINUX rules all of windows os. At least in linux i don't i have to restart a million freakin times when i update the system or install any new hardware. i just update and i am on my way with out restarting. maybe microcrap sould do something to make their kernel32 more stable....thats all i have to say about now about longhorn......oh all long is just the next version of XP that loooks "PRETTY" WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree. The only people MS OS's appeal to anymore, is anyone only concerned with the way it looks. oooo ahhhh pretty colors....

Sorry, but i don't like my OS's to look like a 12 yr old girl designed them in art class.

win2k is my current OS, but only until Linux ripens some more.

--cheers

"I agree. The only people MS OS's appeal to anymore, is anyone only concerned with the way it looks. oooo ahhhh pretty colors....

Sorry, but i don't like my OS's to look like a 12 yr old girl designed them in art class.

win2k is my current OS, but only until Linux ripens some more.

--cheers "

Definitely agree. XP looks like it was made by Fisher Price with the nice soft colors and crappy graphics, not to mention the nice big bubbly start menu items. One of the reason I've used a Mac all my life :-) Yay Apple!

thanks to gates, i just installed the first linux box in my house... can't use DVD's on 2Kpro so he pushed me away.

the ripening has begun long ago... if you wait too long, it may rot on the vine like windows has

* win2k is my current OS, but only until Linux ripens some more.

That's a cop out excuse. If you really wanted to use Linux you would. I've used linux as my only desktop OS for 4 years, and it lacks no features.

My advice to anyone who says stupid things like that: put up or shut up.

That's not entirely true. I've used Linux since 1996. However, I have never been able to completely convert. Mainly because some work I've done required Windows.

For example, one university I worked for required at one time that web development had to be interfaced via FrontPage. It didn't mean you had to use FrontPage to build, but you had to login and upload that way. Recently they've changed that, though I'm not there anymore so who knows.

I also had to use Photoshop. GIMP works well and for most users is more than enough. But you still can't do everything.

There are also some development tools (like ToolBook) that I use at work that are Windows-only. Luckily the PHP and MySQL work I do is not platform-dependent.

That's pretty much it for me. The only gaming I do is with Unreal Tournament (and Quake 3 to a smaller extent) and that's been ported.

I will say that Windows 2000 is the last Windows I will ever purchase and run. I don't agree with product activation and some of the newer "features" to come in Windows. So, I go somewhere else. Ain't consumerism grand?

Yes, it does lack features. I'm currently using
Linux/Free/Gnome as my desktop environment both at
home and at work, because it lacks _fewer_ features
than some of the alternatives (e.g., Windows), but it
certainly does lack features. I can easily rattle off
a dozen features it ought to have that it doesn't...

* Full alpha channel. (So that, for example, I can
set a window to be 30% opaque. gnome-terminal has
a "transparent" background mode, but it isn't
transparent really; it just uses the wallpaper as
a pixmap background. You can't see through to
the window behind.) This is in the works, but I
haven't seen it in action yet.

* Automatic creation of swap space as necessary,
using available drive space. This one is a
particularly embarrassing thing to be missing,
because Windows has had it at least since 1996.
You ever see what happens to a Linux system
when it runs out of swap space? It's bad.

* read/write support for NTFS. Linux is still
WAY ahead of Windows in terms of compatibility
with other systems, but it needs this.

* A decent mail client that's good enough for the
poweruser who treats email as a substitute for
the telephone, the US postal service, and a
social life. Pegasus Mail only runs on Windows.
(No, Evolution and Mozilla Mail are _not_ in
this category. They can replace Outlook, but
frankly anything can replace Outlook.) I'm
using Gnus, which is close, but there are some
major bits missing (e.g., proper multithreading).

* file manager integration for smb fileshares.
komba is a step in the right direction, but this
needs to be integrated into the file manager.

* A distro with better default setups. The default
settings for every app are horrible in every major
distro. (Windows is in the same boat, though.)

* A large public domain clip-art gallery for OO.o
I personally have no use for this, but a lot of
people would consider it necessary. (MS Office
has a large gallery that's not pd per se but is
licensed in such a way that licensed users of
Office can include it in their documents.)

* A way to tie X11's two clipboards (WHY does it
have two separate cliboards? WHY) together. I'm
really tired of trying to copy and paste from
Mozilla to Emacs and having it not work.

* The ability to have separate resolutions and
colour depths for each workspace. BeOS had this
five years ago. XFree needs it.

* A unified way to specify colours that all apps
will follow. Currently we can specify a theme
for GTK apps, and a theme for Qt apps, and then
everything else... does its own thing. (I don't
mind that skinnable apps like Mozilla do their
own thing, especially if they have a classic
theme (as Moz does) that follows the system
settings. But OO.o for example forces blinding
white backgrounds on you and there's NOTHING you
can do about it. On Windows it follows the system
colours as it should.)

Yes, this one requires changing lots and lots of
apps. I'd be happy if just all the major apps
(OO.o, Emacs, and so on) would pick up on the
system colours and use them by default. Windows
has this one, and has had for years.

* An easy GUI way to renice an app, preferably from
the context menu you get by right-clicking its entry
in the task list on the panel.

* A solution for dependency hell. Just today I had
to install over fifteen different packages on the
cgi server at work just to get the one thing I
wanted (gnome-terminal, which I use remotely via
ssh with X11 forwarding). Some of the packages I
am stone cold certain I will never need. esound
was one of them; this is a cgi server for crying
out loud; it does NOT need sound stuff. This is
every bit as nasty as (albeit different from)
the DLL hell on Windows.

I can think of plenty more, too. "No features missing"
indeed. No imagination have you.

'* Full alpha channel.'

- I believe both KDE and GNOME camps are working on 'the alpha problem'

'* Automatic creation of swap space'

- Never had a problem running out of swap space with just keeping it double the amount of physical RAM.. The point of having it in a partition is to keep from causing the corruption of any filesystems.. Trust me, a corrupted filesystem is far worse than running out of swap space.

'* read/write support for NTFS'

- Read support for NTFS has been around for a long time.. Write support is there too, just not recommended. NTFS is quite easily corrupted from outside Windows. My solution - a data partion that is FAT32.

'* A decent mail client'

- Pegasus runs great under Wine according to this: http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?appId=284

'* file manager integration for smb fileshares.'

- Errm, I think that IS in nautilus..

'* A distro with better default setups.'

- I agree with you that default setups often times suck on MOST distros - RedHat 8.0 was the first I was ever actually happy with out of the box...

'* A large public domain clip-art gallery for OO.o'

- Buy Office, run it under Wine, use Office clipart.. There are clipart collections you can buy in .gif/.jpg format as well - can't expect EVERYTHING for free.. ;)

'* A way to tie X11's two clipboards'

- The clipboard just plain sucks. I don't even bother trying to use it most of the time anymore..

'* The ability to have separate resolutions'

- That WOULD be useful..

'* A unified way to specify colours that all apps
will follow'

- As far as I know, this is what RedHat's 'bluecurve' is all about..

'* An easy GUI way to renice an app'

- psDoom!

'* A solution for dependency hell.'

- One solution I have found for packages like that is to just compile them from source.. Often times the majority of dependencies (like esound on a cgi server) are compiled into the binary packages, but don't NEED to be there - it's just for added functionality if you HAPPEN to be running esound - binary packages are often times compiled with the lowest common denominator in mind, which isn't always what you need or want..

Plenty of things missing though, in my opinion. Some not so missing as they may seem tho ;)

"The clipboard just plain sucks. I don't even bother trying to use it most of the time anymore.."

this is the main reason I have given up using linux as my desktop OS on several occasions in the past.

I (and im sure most other average windows desktop users) expect virtually any data to be copyable from any app into any other app without issues.

not "bother trying" is simply not an option for many desktop uses as it would seriously impact on their daily productivity.

I'm very excited about Longhorn, can't wait to get a beta in my hands.

Same here! It sounds really sweet. Sounds like they got rid of teh windows registry, hoorray!!!

Go here if you would like to see some screen shots of 4008... http://www.winsupersite....views/longhorn_4008.asp

Those are laughably fake!

If those are 'laughably fake' why dont you install it yourself and see how 'fake' they are...

Those are real Windows Longhorn Screenshots. I installed a copy of it myself today and can verify that what you see in those screenshots are what you will find while installing it and messing around with the OS. Jump on into your favorite IRC Beta Serving Channel and grab yourself a copy. I am sure to be flamed for that last comment, but nonetheless who really gives a care.

They got rid of the registry? How do you figure?

Why do you think it is fake? Did you ever see an _installed_ Longhorn? I have one! :)

Joc

Some people are so stupid!

You honestly think this is a leak? MS just want feedback on what people like and dont like, dont think your special if you have a copy.

Id like to see a leak of Blackcomb, now that would be a shock to the M$ System!

Leaks aren't really leaks. Lets call them "strategic releases". I'm sure Long whatever is really great and stuff, just like all OS's are, for whatever reason you use it for. Out of all the OS's out there, are they really that different? I mean you are still taking a s***, just on a different toilet.

Um....since when did ms care about what people think...that is...since when have they cared what educated, literate, technologicaly oriented people have to say. Sure, ms is free to make ms windows/longhorn for ages 1-5. There is nothing wrong with it (they always wanted to dominate other markets. Why not childrens toys?...ones that need updates every 48 hrs.)

Hopefully MS will see that dramaticly changing the code every year is not a cost effective solution. They need to fix current problems before throwing away the os and restarting with copied code from old os systems. And as for the new file system (what are they going to use to organize file structures, paperclips?)

And as for the visuals, I dont like looking at a os that has "Fisher Price" somewhere in the copyrights.

just had to get my 2 cents in on this. (I have nothing against MS...they did a great job on DOS and 2k...maybe they can do it again before xp/longhorn gets a tombstone.)

"Hopefully MS will see that dramaticly changing the code every year is not a cost effective solution. "

I'm too busy reading how many billions they make in a year to even comment how sweetly innacurate this is. They have followed this release cycle formula since 1989. How much money have you made since then?

Of course it's cost effective - they have tied-in deals with every major manufacturer and purchaser on earth. Home users only make up a small percentage of their annual sales. The US Military buys over 200,000 licences at a time and even they are small time in the business world.

While Linus fails to run the most popular software (sorry - but it's office by way more than a mile) then all users who aren't tech-heads will simply buy MS.

You can wish it wasn't so - but it has been for the last 10 years and it will for the next