RSSLonghorn Milestone 5 Makes the Rounds
By Nate Mook | Published April 28, 2003, 7:57 AM
Continuing the suspicious trend of major Longhorn builds appearing on the Internet like clockwork, Milestone 5 of Microsoft's next generation Windows release has leaked out of Redmond. The internal alpha build, numbered 4015, is the third Longhorn milestone to end up available for download on newsgroups and IRC channels.
After acknowledging previous Longhorn leaks, however, Microsoft claims it is working to find the source.
Longhorn M5 features incremental enhancements over Milestone 4, which leaked out in early March. Microsoft has finally given Longhorn its own boot logo (screenshot), and has added a new notification screen while logging in (screenshot). The "Bliss" wallpaper has been updated slightly, along with the Longhorn's Plex visual style (screenshot).
As introduced in M4, build 4015 utilizes the Windows Preinstallation Environment to install, reducing setup time dramatically. M5 takes longer install than M4, however, due to changes in the way Longhorn detects devices.
The Sidebar continues to mature in each Longhorn revision. M5 includes a new "Positions" tab in the Taskbar & Start Menu properties to graphically configure the location of the Sidebar (screenshot). An incomplete "Basket" tile has been added to the Sidebar for quick access to files, as well as a tile for Windows Media Player (screenshot).
Longhorn M5 features a new Synchronize wizard for scheduling times to automatically download content from the Internet (screenshot). Such content can be instantly synchronized by clicking a button on the Sidebar.
A unified Search interface, which debuted in M4, is more refined in build 4015 (screenshot). Longhorn can instantly search from a variety of locales, including local files, contacts and the Internet. "Filter by" options can also be used to narrow down results.
Microsoft has further evolved the "Library" concept in Longhorn, phasing out the need for a user to browse a physical hard drive for files or applications. The Music Library, for example, transparently gathers all audio files into a single virtual folder, no matter where they are located (screenshot).
Milestone 5 includes a new Game Library that provides quick access to all installed games, in addition to configuration options for gaming hardware and display properties (screenshot).
The virtual folder functionality in Longhorn is part of Microsoft's new file system technology dubbed Windows Future Storage. WinFS will eventually work like a SQL database and display files as they are needed for specific tasks, rather than based on physical location.
But improvements to WinFS in Longhorn M5 come at a price; the system can easily slow down to a crawl when performing simple file system operations.
Although definitive progress has made in each milestone release, Longhorn is not expected to enter beta testing for months and any current plans could change drastically. Microsoft has refused to comment on the leaked alpha builds, saying it is "too early to discuss" any features.
Isn't it funny how the Longhorn leaks come out just when the Longhorn hype dies down?
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|It's called brilliant guerrilla marketing techniques.
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|Why don't they just buy apple so they can have a solid os? I mean if you are going to steal the dock, why leave the taskbar? Doen't that look awkward! Apple's iPhotos is probably the best way out there for pictures, so why not just license it from apple? I am anti-M$ but, don't want to start that os arguement again. I'm just wondering what they do with all that research money that they spend if just about everything is stolen from apple. If anybody has or will get a copy of it, does the virtual folder slow the system down?
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|I hate to tell you this, but Apple doesn't innovate the world.... something that's hard for Apple trolls to cope with.
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|And neither does Microsoft, in fact, the only thing that Microsoft do truly innovate in is claiming how much they apparently do innovate and how everythign will hurt their abilities to innovate.
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|Sorry, I was wrong... Microsoft do in fact innovate:
http://www.securityfocus...2003-04-20/2003-04-26/0
This HTML will crash IE, Outlook, Frontpage, and all the Microsoft programs that use the shlwapi.dll library to render web code. Put this as someone's Active Desktop and watch Windows go bye bye.
<html>
<form>
<input type crash>
</form>
</html>
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|Microsoft does inovate, and this is one of the ways: http://www.microsoft.com...003/may03/05-01Amir.asp
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|i dint want a flame war...but u have to wonder where they spend all that money...it seems that they always copy apple...the only thing they have that is really new in the new notes program which i will get soon...
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|My example of their innovation was much better.
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|If apple is so innovative why did they need to resort to an existing OS as the base of the so call "new" OS? At least Microsoft wrote their OS. In case you have forgotten as so many seem to, Steve jobs forced his way into Xerox's Palo alto research center and stole almost every idea behind Mac OS from there. That is some great innovation right there. Both Microsoft and Apple have taken other peoples ideas. Its not wrong, is business. And as for bugs, lets see you write a program (or set of) with more than 50 million lines of code and have it work flawlessly. Apple obviously couldn’t.
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|Can you point us all to where I have said that apple are innovative? No you can't so stop assuming. It's constantly Microsoft that comes out and tells us all just how much they innovate, then the Microsoft sheep/fanboys/zealots go on and spread that around as if it were the word of god* (*if you believe in god - I don't). What exactly has Microsoft innovated and why is competition such a threat to their future innovations?
Is your whole basis of Apple not being innovative because they chose to use BSD as the basis for OS X? That's a very narrow view you have there, not suprising though. What Apple's motives were for using BSD I don't know, but BSD is a very stable OS with a very solid kernel. I mean, BSD must be fairly good, even Microsoft has used their code in their OS for many years. The whole TCP/IP stack was taken from BSD. Apple have done a lot more innovation than Microsoft and I'm in absolutely no way an Apple supporter!
"And as for bugs, lets see you write a program (or set of) with more than 50 million lines of code and have it work flawlessly. Apple obviously couldn’t."
Whilst I am a developer I haven't written a program anywhere near that long. And Microsoft has needed thousands of developers to do it. But you're right, when you have a program that is of that size it is very difficult to make it flawless. Then again, we're talking about Internet Explorer here not the whole OS, so IE is not even close to 50 million lines of code and yet has had more holes in it than swiss cheese. Accept the fact that Microsoft aren't renowned for writing secure applications rather than trying to make excuses for them all the time! They have more reason/responsibility for making their applications secure than anyone else because their applications are by default installed on the majority of desktop pc's. People's web browsers shouldn't crash because someone forgot to type type= in <input type. Nor should you be able to start opening up people's cd drives as per the other exploit which came out at about the same time as that one. It's time to accept responsibility rather than pointing like little 5yr old kids and saying "well they've got security problems too".
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|I did not say a single word about Microsoft, nor did I imply that Microsoft does innovate.
The fact is, Apple-heads tend to believe that Apple invents/innovates everything and they really do very little other than putting a pretty case around some hardware.
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|Again you say this... but based on what?
The sidebar in Longhorn, which, I might add, is NOTHING at all like the dock in OSX, but even if it were, it's a good UI design, why not improve upon it?
Mac zealots claimed that XP's UI coppied Aqua, when in reality, the two are nothing alike except from the fact they both use a lot of blue (which just happens to be fairly easy on the eyes).
The fact is, both sides take ideas from one another, and it's not a bad thing. One guy makes something that is neat, the other guy takes it and improves upon it. If we did not build upon existing ideas, then we would not be where we are today.
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|Screw these OS wars...I am just going to hook my brain to a direct feed into the Internet, that way I shall gain all omnipotent power! muahahahahahahah!
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|they also make the best consumer OS money can buy. no big deal though, right?
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|That's just a matter of oppinion.
Some people prefer OSX, others prefer Windows, or even Linux.
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|Sure, the look is like apple's.. but come on. Are you reading about the new FS or not?? Do you know what they've done behind the scenes??
All you're looking at is the interface. It's only a matter of time before they all look the same... there's a reason for that. PEOPLE LIKE IT. Why would you make something that people hate?? So Apple, MS and even linux gui's are starting to merge into similar looking interfaces.
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|One issue I take with this is... Microsoft has been making its OS's for quite some time to be compatible with a HUGE number of different pieces of hardware. Without this support, we all couldn't go put together a wiz-bang white box to play UT2 as cheaply as we can now.
MS might not innovate the world, but they've allowed the general population access to desktop computing inexpensively and easily.
The GENERAL population has a reasonably good experience with MS products and they're not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Yes, there are some problems. But some of those problems come from trying to give the world to their consumers.
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|It's tough going making things idiot proof. I guess Microsoft underestimates the idiots out there.
Why don't you go and use photoshop or something? that's what macs are for right? Go color a barney picture.
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|a) What has this got to do with making anything idiot proof? This is just an example of s*** programming, something we've all come accustomed to from Microsoft. It's a simple matter of not catching the null pointer.
b) Why don't YOU go and learn about computers a little bit before you start offering me advice on what I should be doing. I don't own a mac nor do I overly support them in any way and Photoshop runs faster on a P4.
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|"But some of those problems come from trying to give the world to their consumers."
I'm not sure if you meant it in that way but that's enough to make most people ill. Ahh yes, Microsoft is Mother Teresa, giving the world to their consumers. Give me a break. Microsoft are a huge corporation, the only thing they are interested in is making money as that's what makes their shareholders happy. They're not here to bring you the world, they're here to get as much money from you as possible, that's why the lock you into Windows, lock you into Office etc etc. only to then entice or at times force you to purchase the latest version.
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|I own an imac (os9 and osx) and rarely turn it on. I just don't like it. Windows is the KING!!!
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|And guess how they make that money? By pleasing their customers.
And if you think any other company is any different, you are quite daft.
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|I agree with you, while not in quite the same cynical way. Why is ANY business in business?? To make money. MS wants to "give us the world" so that we will buy their products. They try to incorporate flexibility in their software to allow for a myriad of configurations.
I don't begrudge them for trying to make money. And if they make a product that helps the average people get into computers, then I'm all for it. Say what you will, but MS has also boosted the hardware industry as well.
Now let me backtrack a little and say I don't agree with some of their business practices and they should be slapped on the hand for that. But the whole favoritism of the OS zealots is getting quite old.
All OS's have their plusses and their minuses. WHY can't people see that and just talk about it rationally? Too much testosterone?? Not everyone is right. Not everyone is wrong. That is the part that is frustrating.
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|Oh sure, sum up my whole argument in one sentence. THanks! :P
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|"And guess how they make that money? By pleasing their customers."
Yes, you're quite correct they do make money by providing their customers with what they want, I just wouldn't go and say that their goal is to give the world to their customers. And they also make their money, as I mentioned, by locking people into their OS and their applications as well as illegal business practices. I believe YOU are the daft one as you choose to ignore those other factors.
"And if you think any other company is any different, you are quite daft."
I do think other companies are different, which is why those other companies haven't been found guilty in a court of law for their illegal practices. On the other hand I don't think that any large corporation is any different, then again I never said they were.
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|The only difference is Microsoft is big enough for their practices to become illegal once the company reached 'monopoly' status.
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|So I guess I have to clarify "WORLD" so you can get off that word. I guess it might have been a bad choice of words to use, but what I meant was that MS tried to make an OS that works with all hardware for all situations. Have they done this? Of course not, but they do try to add as much support for as many possible scenarios as possible. THAT is why they have problems with their OS. They aren't forcing their users to use THEIR hardware at THEIR inflated prices.
I have nothing but respect for both OS's, but quit getting so holier than thou. You know as well as I do that Apple is making a ton of money off of their inflated hardware prices as well. If they were on 80% of the desktops, someone would be screaming, "bad business practices" for holding people ransom in their hardware configurations.
You cannot please all of the people all of the time. What I was trying to say was that MS seems to try to do that. It's not a noble or virtuous pursuit. They're just trying to put the best product out there to OWN the market. Wouldn't you? (again, I know some of their practices have gone over the line, so we don't need to rehash that)
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|I'm tempted to buy a freaking MAC. At least they're running a solid OS now. Maybe they've got some DRM issues to work out but who doesnt? and don't say linux because even linus torvalds has admitted that linux is not for or against DRM, the linux community may be the last hope but linux itself can go wherever
http://www.theinquirer.org/?article=9160
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|Windows XP is perfectly solid so I am no sure where you are coming from, however, Longhorn is in ist infant stages and mostly likely like any windows os will look nothing like the final product. OSX has its pitfalls too and can be quite annoying coming from experience.
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|You talk about OSX having pit-falls... Can you name some of them for me? I am and always will be part of that small community that stands behind Apple products. I did't want to get caught up in the midst of the forum but you struck a nerve. I own pc running WindowsXP and an Apple running OSX (soon to be Panther). Can you guess which one of these computers has crashed on me (multiple times) and which has not? Let me give you a hint.... it wasn't my Apple.
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|Not to get caught up in a flame war, but I figured I would throw in my two cents. I've been using a PowerBook as my primary machine for about 6 months, and enjoy using it more than I do Windows. However, OS X can be a lot slower than Windows doing similar tasks.
When using Windows XP, I rarely had a crash that forced a reboot. However, the USB KVM switch I use causes the PowerBook to kernel panic (hard lock forcing a reboot) all the time. The decent Web browsers on OS X also crash sporadically (both Camino and Safari), and Finder locks up doing remedial tasks all the time (the best is when I try to delete a file in use, but cannot remove the dialog which tells me this because all of the buttons are greyed out).
As I said, I enjoy using OS X and the Mac a lot more than Windows, but it honestly does seem to have more problems than Windows XP ever did.
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|Maybe you don't have properly configured hardware, but both crash, its software. XP has been extremely solid for alot of people.
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|Oh, and BTW, I have one system that is dedicated for Audio production on Protools and I take it on the road with me to live gigs and produce albums and XP has been a workhorse.
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|Thank you. Remember people, an OS is made by human people who can make errors, I am not saying one is better than the other. Both Windows XP and OSX Jaguar are great OS's. windows just gets a bad rap sometimes because people install alot of crap on their computers or use flaky hardware.
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|LOL hilarious. I am bookmarking this page and your comment Nate. The next time I have a conversation with someone that believes OSX is faster or more stable than Windows (XP certainly, and 2K) I can point them to someone's opinion other than mine (that's had experience with OSX no less!) I had a conversation less than a week ago with someone on this very subject. "Windows crashes a lot, it's slow", blah blah blah. I tried to appeal to the guy rationally, but he believed what he wanted to believe. Windows or OSX is as stable or crashy as you make vis a vis configuration. He seemed to think OSX is more stable ootb but this hasn't been my experience at all. It quickly became clear the guy was a fool, but whaddaya gonna do? Leave him in his ignorance I guess.
I'm curious Nate: Do you prefer OSX simply because it's new (relative to Windows, which you've used for years), or do you feel OSX has it over Windows in some ways regarding useability? (I'm not referring to the beckend, where OSX is argueably better than Windows as it's based on FreeBSD.)
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|That does not mean it does not have bugs. I love these arguments. "It works for me, so it must work for everyone!" XP has flaws, some are MUCH bigger than others. Notebook support was pretty bad until SP1, that doesn't mean the majority of notebook owners had problems with their hardware.
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|I never said it works for everyone. And notebook support was bad until SP1? I beg to differ, what problems are you talking about?
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|Beg to differ all you want.
http://support.microsoft...px?scid=kb;en-us;311706
http://support.microsoft...px?scid=kb;en-us;320899
http://support.microsoft...px?scid=kb;en-us;312826
http://support.microsoft...px?scid=kb;en-us;310772
I can go on, but I doubt I need to. I had 3 of these issues myself.
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|Ok fine, so what?? Don't put your computer in hibernation then!
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|Riight.. Thanks for the tip.
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|I prefer OS X for numerous reasons. I like the general feel of the operating system more. Once you get used to the little differences between Windows, it grows on you and you appreciate the way Apple does things. From Finder to the Dock, to the feel of the applications themselves including toolbars and the menubar - everything just feels nicer to me.
Plus, I like the applications better. Camino/Chimera on OS X is a great Web browser and I enjoy using it a lot more than IE on Windows. iTunes and iPhoto are simply beautiful. The AIM, MSN, and ICQ clients available are great (I love Adium personally, with the tabbed message window). Apple Mail is the best mail client I've ever used (and I've used everything from Pine to Outlook XP) with a ton of featured packed into a beautifully simple interface, the way mail should be.
And in general, as Apple says, everything does just seem to work. I never have to worry about drivers, I can just plug in my camera or Bluetooth adapter and everything is seamless, without problem.
But as I said, the OS does have problems. While many of the applications are excellent and I prefer them to their Windows counterparts - they are in an early stage of development. Which means they have a tendency to crash. OS X only recently got decent Web browsers (Safari and Chimera) and both are in Beta. And the operating system itself is relatively young (before 10.2, it was quite slow and had major issues), which means not everything works as it should. The USB KVM switch I have does cause kernel panics, and at times the system can be a lot slower than Windows, sucking up all RAM.
I have less problems overall with Windows XP and it is faster, but doing a lot of things in XP are more of a hassle than in OS X. And I have more fun using the Mac (plus, I love being able to open a UNIX terminal, as I do a fair amount of sys admin work). So the tradeoff is worth it to me. And thankfully, Apple is great at releasing upgrades - so it's possible a lot of my issues will go away in the near future as the software matures.
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|Oh, I forgot to mention another great thing: applications are stored in a single container folder that the operating system can execute directly. No dealing (for the most part) with installers or uninstallers, and programs putting random files and DLLs all over your drive. When you want to delete a program, you just drop it in the trash. Most programs you can install by dragging a single file to your Applications folder. After using the system for 8 months, I don't feel the need to format like I do under Windows.
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|This is for all you WindowsXP lovers. Typical Microsoft security patch.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/30426.html
Oh yeah, Microsoft is still working on a patch to fix this patch. Umm, makes you think...
Also, do me a favor when you get a chance read this article.
http://www.****microsoft.com/content/whatsbad.shtml
Umm, makes you think...Oh, thats right Bill Gates does all the thinking for you Windows users...
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|Of course IE sucks. What you can't get other browsers for windows? Opera, Phoneix, Mozilla?? Opera is my personal favourite browser. And yes there are security holes in every OS. OSX and and linux in general have some pretty bad security holes, the only difference is that because its open source it can be fixed in less than 24hours. So please spare me the talk about security, and get yourslef a router with NAT as this is the best solution. Besides, Windows tends to have more security threats at it because it is the most widely used operating system. If Mac OSX was the most widely used platform the tables would be turned I gurantee it, free BSD core or not.
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|If you are going to troll, at least act some what civilized..... for that matter, quit trolling.
How about actually adding something to the conversation?
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|Good advice... why don't you just tell customers not to use their computers otherwise they will crash!
What a joke... it's because of Microsoft that most people think it's a normal thing for a computer to crash and that most problems can be solved by simply re-booting!
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|It was a joke for Godsakes, lighten up, sheesh.
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|u know why windows has so many security issues? because it's worthy to hack and other OS, na..
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|Oh? Then why do they themselves think they need to work on security? It couldn't be that their code base up till (and including until proven otherwise) W2k3 was swiss cheese, noooo never.
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|I use XP and OSX on a regular basis at work, I'm a graphic designer. Apple is good for design, s***ty for networking. Example. 25% of the time I try to copy files to my PC server, it crashes the server. Never did this with OS9. XP I never have to reboot. NEVER. I'm going on 3 months without restarting. Apple is moving in the right direction, but still I believe it has more flaws than XP does. Next to Unix, XP is the most stable os on the market. I have to reset my Mac at least once a day just to get installed fonts to work, and even then the screen fonts don't show up. Sure Microsoft trys to hook you in to specific programs, but with that comes innovation. Can an Apple surf a web page from your file explorer? Yea, building your os around ie may be cheating, but it helps fluid everyday usage. I like things with OSX, but mostly I prefer XP.
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|The file system is not WinFS, it's WFS, or Windows Future Storage.
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|Who knows what it will be called or designated upon release. But all of the services right now are WinFS, as well as the background WinFS.exe application.
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|Will we be able to move files and windows KNOWS this, like every other OS out there? If this is a result of WINFS, i will like it. Otherwise I don't need this.
I mean, Jesus, why should I need a virtual folder for my audio files? I want CONTROL over my sys...
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|P.S. I hope , these
http://images.betanews.c.../longhorn/positions.png
are not the only positions of the sidebar. Is there a way, atm, to turn this baby OFF?
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|What do you mean?
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|I'm guessing he means like, for example, if you move a program to another location the shortcuts to it are updated to point to it automatically. That way the next time you click the shortcut the program runs, instead of that stupid box coming up and making you search for the program. Also, if a drive letter changes, all of the shortcuts are updated to the new letter. That is a feature I would really like.
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|Can't you do that now with Windows XP? If you meant moving an entire program like MS Office to another drive, that probably doesn't work. But right now you can create a shortcut to a file, move the file or even rename it, and double click the shortcut and the original file will still open correctly.
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|Yep. Windows 9x didn't manage shortcuts that way, so it was easy to get broken associations. But Win2K and XP do.
However, WFS looks great. I'm happy to move towards an abstracted file system where physical file locations are generally unimportant.
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|Uh...don't you ever get annoyed when you download music off Kazaa and you think it's in your MY MUSIC folder and you go to play it later just to find out you have to go into a different folder in My Computer??? If you use AOL: Don't you ever download something from an AOL specific service and don't mind, but still don't like the fact that you have to go deep into the PROGRAM FILES and America Online folder just to open it?
You can't just look at the feature and say OH THATS SO POINTLESS...you have to make up a senario and ask yourself would this be a good feature to have in such a senario...That's what MS or any other software enterprise does if the idea doesn't originate from people who drop a suggestion.
Personally I'm a neat freak...so I think I'd love the new file system simply because I don't have to spend hours rearanging my folders and I can just type what I want and have everything I want RIGHT there.
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|i never get annoyed by any of those things because i always set the options to tell programs where i want them to put files i've downloaded, and that's where they go. Every time. I've never seen a program that doesn't obey it's own options setting and put downloaded files where you tell it to, That would be ridiculous. What's the problem? I think it's between the chair and the keyboard.
Of course, If you use AOL then this wouldn't even be a concern because of course you're not going to know how to use a computer anyway. I guess this is a great feature for all the AOL users out there. However, i do like the idea of performing SQL based queries on my file system, and if the filesystem itself is a database then it won't have to re-index constantly and the queries should be lightning fast. They're probably still running the Milestones on NTFS with a WinFS simulation to test functionality while the WinFS team still goes through the effort of developing an entirely new filesystem.
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|I tend to agree with you, otoh I've seen how some people "misuse" their computers, and end-up totally hosing their setup. My sister is a perfect example. I'm embarassed to admit 'm related to her given how she lives, and the way she treats her computers is a perfect example. Her, and her idiot husband (he really *is* an idiot). You know, installing a program somewhere, then installing an update somewhere else, and wondering why the update didn't remember the old settings. Deleting a program's folder in an attempt to uninstall it, and then wondering why another program they use crashes at start-up (it turns-out program '2' needed program '1'). That's just the tip of the iceberg. The problem is, we've deployed all these computers, a lot with broadband connections, to people that don't understand a pc is not a f*cking toy. It's more like a car than, say, a dvd player. You needn't take it to a technician everytime you need to install a program. Just like you don't just hop in a car and race off until you've received your lisence, however, you can't just hop onto a computer and play around. Sure, learn as you go along, even hose the system a few times. But for Christ's sake, *learn* from your mistakes. I swear, the way people think a computer should just sit there and do everything for you is a metaphore for how they view their own lives: sit back and have everyone else do it for you.
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|Yes, I mean both. Moving shortcuts or a whole program. And, btw, moving the source of a shortcut to a different partition makes the shortcut to fail. It doesent work atm.
I wait for this Feature since win95, and THAT would be a great feature. I believe, this is one of the most important features in any os, cause it gives you real control over the sys. Take a look at Mac Os or even OS/2...
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|P.S. M§ give us hundrets of thousands of new features ;)
but some of the most imortant ones dont come. thats a shame :D
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|I could be wrong, but I believe Windows only keeps track of shortcuts on drives formatted with NTFS.
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|Move the source of the shortcut to another aprtition, and even NTFS doesent't help :)
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|WERD
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|If the filesystem is to act like SQL - being indexed as stated by itavisen.no, I find the speed issues of gaining file access quite interesting. Could this be a security matter? Anyone's point of view?
Sunb!
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|Score: 0
|The "Library" concept seems dumb to me. I put my files in separate folders to organize them. Why would I want to display them all lumped into one single folder? I mean if a person has trouble finding their files without having them all in one folder something's wrong. Also the game library; I don't get the point. I already put all my game shortcuts in the Games folder on the start menu. These new features must be for people who always accept the default install locations and have shortcuts scattered all over the place on their start menu. Hopefully there will be a way to turn off all this stuff for those who don't want a dumbed down interface.
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|I think you are missing the point. YOu don't have to think about where you save files or install programs. The file system can do a lot of that work for you. You don't think about where a record goes when you store it to a database do you?
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|I wouldn't know really, I've never used a data base. :)
Still, I don't see what there is to think about really. If I download something it always goes to my downloads folder. Then if I want I can move it to it's proper place (music folder, software updates, etc). I keep my system very organized though, which I guess not everyone does.
Anyway, I actually 'want' to think about it. I don't want my computer to assume it knows where I want to save a file, or to cram them all into one location. Why would I want my vacation photos stuck in the same folder as my desktop wallpaper, or my music all mixed together. This is why I hate things like media players that scan your drive for files and put everything in a so called "Library". If I want to play a song I already know where it is. Oh well, anyway that's just my preference. I'm sure there will be a way to turn these special folders off. Sorry for ranting.
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|"YOu don't have to think about where you save files or install programs. The file system can do a lot of that work for you."
But what if you *DO* want to think about it. I don't want everything installed under "Program Files", I categorize all my applications and install them all on a separate drive to the system drive. I don't want everything to be all over the place because Windows thought it would be a good place for it!
"You don't think about where a record goes when you store it to a database do you? "
Incorrect comparison. Not thinking about where a record goes is the equivalent of not thinking about which bytes of the filesystem will store the file you are saving! So when you install a program or save a document you will/may want to categorize it in some way rather than putting it in "My Documents" for instance! When you want to save a record in a database you will think about what database server you want to save it to (i.e. which drive), which database on that server (i.e. which directory) and which table inside that database!
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|I think what's interesting is what's NOT in longhorn. A lot of attention has been on the new sidebar and the winFS. However there's some major work left in LH.
For one, the new winpe setup based install is really bad on migrating settings. For another, you cannot uninstall longhorn. Can you imagine if microsoft released an OS you couldnt uninstall? That will take major work to do, and microsoft will have to do it from scratch. Another major problem is the setup files are contained in a compressed file. What happens if you need to extract a file? Longhorn gets around this temporary by extracting the full imagine to c:\windows\i386 i believe, but there needs to be a better solution to this issue. All in all, the more i think about it, the clearer it is that microsoft is going to have to make some tough decisions about what is worked on, and what is punted to blackcomb. I think microsoft might be too aggressive for the timeframe.
gosh
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|Excellent points. This is going to be a consumer upgrade and thus a lot of work still needs to be done to ensure migration and installation is flawless despite the major architecture changes.
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|Please note that the reason why file system operations are so slow right now is because there is no WinFS, it's just a service which is emulating it to some extent.
In theory the actual WinFS should be at least as fast as NTFS if not faster
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|WinFS encompasses multiple services performing different tasks. The base SQL backend has been implemented, which allows the operating system to index files and work with virtual folders. No matter how the filesystem itself turns out, those services will always be needed to interface with the operating system.
Nothing is being emulated, however right now the SQL database and WinFS services are working with NTFS, rather than a filesystem optimized to take advantage of the technology.
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|No, what is now running in M5 is almost nothing like what we will see later.
There are no SQL subsystems implemented yet because SQL Server 2003 is not finished.
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|Oh, so they are bundling SQL2003 into Longhorn now? (RIIIIGHT! LOL!)
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|Think about it logically. Why would Microsoft build WinFS services now simply to scrap them down the road? Yes, a lot will change, but what you see right now is the beginning of the process, not an emulation layer. The services you see now will evolve with the SQL technology and the new filesystem when it is ready.
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|You're right, they're going to scrap all their SQL code and start from scratch, good move MS.
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|They built these services because they can't just sit around and wait for SQL Server 2003 to be completed, they have to be developing Longhorn right now.
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|Actually, Yukon is a pretty major change in SQL architecture and design. Depending on who you talk to at Microsoft, they will tell you SQL Server was redone from scratch essentially.
But the point he was trying to make is that SQL Server (a database server) is a different product than the Yukon technology that WinFS is to be based on. The next release of SQL Server may also find its roots in Yukon, but Microsoft isn't bundling SQL Server into the operating system to serve as a filesystem.
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|Yes, exactly. Even if it uses a SQL engine it will not be "SQL 2003". LOL
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|Why would scrapping their current SQL code, and starting from scratch be a good thing? Their current codebase is solid and FAST! I'd love to see your source.
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|I was being sarcastic. It would be extremely stupid for them not to use code from their top performing database.
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|They may use a chunk of SQL 2003 as it's engine, but I would not call it SQL 2003 driven by any means.
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|Anyone know if Windows File System has made an appearance in M5?
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|Im not sure i like the huge graphical area under the tool bars for most windows. Its seriously reduces the amount of actual content the windows display. What with the tool bars, stupid graphical area and explorer bar on the left, thats leaves less than half the actual window area left for real content in most situations!
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|I think the plan is to eventually use this area for tasks related to the files within the window. There will be different options and things to do in each Library, and you also will be able to quickly view details of a certain file. Although, right now it is mostly wasted space.
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|Havent we got enough file/folder related task items down the left already though?! As someone says further up, these library things are going to be showing lots of items (especially if they default to show all before filters are applied) - thats going to be a lot of list items in a ridiculously small space.
This kinda reminds me of a couple of weeks ago. I put money 2003 on my parents computer because the 1998 version was old and they wondered if a newer version would be more useful. The first thing they said was "is there any way to turn all this off at the bottom of the account transactions screen?" - There wasnt, at least I couldnt see the option anyway. Microsoft decided to waste a third of the screen with a transactions details and so at 1024x768 the transaction list only showed a weeks worth of transactions at a time - not good when you're trying to see what you have spent over the full month. They now want to downgrade back to 1998 because it was better!
My point is, its great being able to quickly see info and do things with a file once you have found it, but its not much use if it takes considerably longer than it used to to find the file in the first place.
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|Does anybody know if they plan to let you pin your personal folders to the right-side of the start menu? I use My Videos and My Projects folders the most. I don't see why they don't let you place whatever you want there as a pin.
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|This might be a strange way to do it, but I added my Projects folder as a toolbar and made it as small as I could. I can click the little arrow symbol and browse my projects like a start menu.
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|ty
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