I remember taping the radio and then taping the tape and passing it out to my friends, everybody did that, now its just a different media. I could record one song from one artist's tape, then one from another, and so on. Then tape it as many times as I wanted.

It's just that now, in the digital age, everything can be tracked as long as it isn't invading your privacy. Then, what is considered private, they couldn't just come in my house and look through my tape collection and listen for copyrighted materials. Right?

Now, it's like them tapping my phone to see if I'm going to share my tape with my friend. The Internet is a network, just the same as a phone network, they should have no right to monitor any type of network. It is a place to communicate and share things privately.

So, it's easier to share music now, but honestly what can they do. There has to be a point in which they give up, or crash. Now, that it's more publicized, there needs to be a buffer, kinda like politics today, too far left against too far right with no in between.

The answer is reasoning. Their reason is money, this country is based on monetary values. Why did we fight the Red Coats? Taxes = money

So, like so many other people said piracy/bootlegging will never stop.

Let alone, do you have any idea how many people have downloaded a movie or record that they had never heard of then recommended it to their friend that went out and rented or bought it. So, are they losing completely? On one hand someone didn't pay for it, or in other words sampled it, on the other they may have gotten rentals or purchases. They pay for advertising, Right?

Sorry for the rant, but it's all a game.

BIG BANK take little bank!

You could say the RIAA caused this problem.

If music wasn't SO EXPENSIVE and overpriced, people wouldn't be forced to find other ways of getting it. A large base of listeners are teenagers who have not yet entered the working world. And in the process of people discovering alternative ways of getting music, people get used to it and word spreads to their friends until allot of people are doing it. What used to be a small niche is now mainstream. Since the RIAA can't go back into time and fix their mistakes, they are making more by suing everybody. So the people were a victim back then with overprices and are still a victim now with lawsuits.

.....and now, the rest of the story.

I think the whole argument that music is overpriced only says something about the person saying it. I am sorry, but you sound like an intelligent person and most likely have a decent job, however, you feel that the stealing of music is better than paying the $11-$20 per CD.(average $15)

It comes down to if it is easier to get it from the internet for free, then why pay! You wouldn’t walk into the local music store and tuck the CD under your coat – would you? Of course not! Why, you most likely would be caught, thrown in jail, and have a trial and pending that the results could follow you around for the rest of your life; and any thing you do in the future might depend upon that one stupid act you did sometime back 10 years ago.

Enter Broadband Internet. The Internet has allowed for “stealing with anonymity.” By the time it takes you to get off your computer, get dressed, get in your car, go to the store, buy the cd, put it in your player, and push play you could have 14-15 full albums downloaded for free. Now, what is the deterrent? The possibility that someone is watching or tracking you? You “might” get caught? In fact, if there were a 1 in 3 chance that you would be caught, you wouldn’t do it.

The fact is that the Internet has created an avenue in which the MPAA and RIAA took too lightly and neglected to utilize and are now playing catch-up. In the meantime, they should still fight to stop P2P. Whether you agree to the legal side of it or not, it is still illegal and all courts agree to that fact. Have ever heard of a case where the file-sharer won? I don’t think that anything that you say can sway them from backing down and they will continue to legally sway courts to protect what is theirs which is deemed by the contractual agreement with the artist(so don't use the argument that the poor artist). They still driver Hummers and Benzes.

I bet if we take a look at some of these people that complain about the MPAA/RIAA we would find that they own several electronic devices for playing them, along with computers and cars with fancy systems and rims, but they cannot afford a $13 CD. I just don’t get that. If i didn't like the price of music, I would devote my life into those objects for playing the very music I couldn't afford. Maybe I am just old school. I just don’t buy the music that much music, but if I wanted to participate in the mp3 player craze I would buy the stupid CD.

ok so buying music online for $.99 is just as overpriced, considering 95% of that money is going to the record labels and not the actual artist who made it. if it was say $.50 per track and 75% of the money went to the artist i would pay but since a bunch of fatcats are earning all the profits off of someone elses hard work i dont see it worth paying them

I am sorry, but your argument is really stupid. Like you care about the artists. They are making their money just like the record label. You don't see them at the welfare line do you? Please come up with more than that.

We are talking .99 and 4.99 for an album - sheeeze!

We should all put our money toward the legal fund for the Donkey/Razorback. That would surely show our support and appreciation. I think P2P is great. I personally hate getting raped each time I buy a cd and go to a movie. I do still go to the cinema. There are some movies I want to see on a big screen, but the prices of tickets and food there are really bad. The price of a cd in Turkey is also very high if it is not a Turkish musician. I love P2P.

Boy and girls, many of you are missing the simple fact that most of the material being "shared" is actually someone's intellectual property, for which royalties are due. A song for which royalities are payable for every copy produced (and sharing involves copying) cannot be shared for free.

However, I have very little sympathy for the music industry in losing all these royalties - any more than I am sympathetic with a robber who doesn't get his share of the money.

The industry has a long history of ripping off its customers, double standards, lying and so on. They have no moral high ground to stand on, so it's become little more than a bunch of money-grabbing people taking on a bunch of royalty-avoiding people.

As I've said before on BN, I don't buy music any more. I'm tired of being screwed around with CDs that won't play on half my systems, and of being treated like a crook when all I want to do is use what I've bought. Use your radio. It really is free music.

eDonkey is obsolete tech.

pegge at mpaa.org
WebHost at mpaa.org

Report Video Piracy
hotline at mpaa.org

Just in case you feel the need :p

They shut down razorback 2? move to razorback 1! The MPAA/RIAA is clueless. I am in agreement with iamtux, Tell them to blow their money on something else.

I really hate the RIAA's guts! Why must they mess with what we do on the internet. I mean com'on.. it's free domain to share whatever we want. What's good for us, doesn't seem to be good for them. Why do they have to medal in everything?

- Josh

When the MPAA steps in and "helps" me not get @ss raped by local theaters with a $10 Mr Goodbar, then I will stop jacking their stuff.

Until then I will enjoy my 187 Movies and 2,416 music files. A small but growing collection - The MPAA & RIAA can count on that!

BTW. Dont use USPS to distribute.

Do what I do... bring your own food and beverages to the theater (hidden). I also bring my own beer to some clubs (hidden in pants/jacket)...

I haven't tried bringing my Nissan coffee thermos to Starbucks yet, though ;)

i just walk into theatres with food without hiding it, i just ignore their protests and they never have the guts to kick me out or to take my food away

If the MPAA encrypted their media better, opposed to the "one line of code" they used for DVD, they wouldn't have such a problem. So because of their incompetence, we're paying for it with this P2P battle which is perfectly legal. They'd shut down the whole Internet if they thought they could get away with it. In fact, if they did somehow kill P2P and saw people still trading over the Internet, they WILL try to close the Internet because all they care about is themselves.

As a side note, let me say I do love DVDs and I recommend people buying them, and considering it costs millions of dollars and lots of people to make a movie, DVDs are a steal.

Audio CDs on the other hand are a rip-off! It costs next to nothing to make an audio CD, especially compared to movies, but yet, audio CDs cost the same as a movie DVD! Does that make any sense whatsoever? The RIAA has been sticking it to us for years and I recommend that no one ever buys an audio CD, ever! Boycott the RIAA.

I think they should be investigated for some of their practices. I agree that cd's are mad overpriced, but not ALL of them are, but alot of them are definitely. I agree about DVDs, DVDs are great and I recommend them over VHS any day. A friend of mine lived in China for 2 years and she told me that the day a movie came out in the US, they'd be selling them for next to nothing in DVD format on the streets in China.
P2P and so-called 'bootlegging' will never stop, there will always be people smart enough to break security measures and make workarounds. I used to get past security systems at my high-school all the time.
The RIAA has lost their sanity and their humanity in their quest for a profit.

At the risk of being hypocritical, I feel I should say something.
I don't support piracy, but I do support all P2P filesharing, and all activities therein, piracy or otherwise.
Filesharing is, in my opinion, and absolute right of all internet users. Filesharing is the single most important and ultimately most practical use of the internet. Every thing in the internet's past has been leading to the point where you can download any content of ANY genre at any time for free. It is the absolute freedom that the internet stands for.

On another related note:
I've never been an edonkey fan (bit torrent for me, all the way) but stories like this make me sad. I respect the edonkey network, and the internet will be worse off with this blow to it. But hopefully, people will migrate to networks similar to bit torrent, which are incredibly more difficult to shut down, or even slow.

thank you.

I shall miss Razorback2, but it's only one of hundreds of servers. eMule lives, and I am using it right now.

"The next generation of open P2P applications will travel even further down the road of anonymity and secrecy."

Yep, i can't believe they don't realize, the more they shut down, the worse it will get. They are turning these shut down servers and sites into martyrs for the p2p cause.

ITA. Let me tell you why audio and video piracy is gonna skyrocket in next few years...

First, software piracy will totally die within 10 years due to TPM chip support in all major OSs (and numerous other hardware devices) but that's just a side note.

Audio and video is different - our eyes and ears are analog. So even without 100% digital rip you will ALWAYS be able to rip analog-ly. Think about videotaping your HDTV screen or placing a mic in front of each speaker; that's the absolute worst case scenario which WON'T be the case.

What p2p systems won't work? Freenet. It's too anonymous/anarchistic. You WILL hear the FBI knocking on your door if your PC was used to distribute child pornography (or WMD/classified government docs) even if it was totally without your knowledge. Freenet allocates a chunk of encrypted space on every user's machine - that chunk is used by ANYONE's data -- you simply don't know what's hidden on your HD. Sane people won't use Freenet once news break about the first guy who got caught for INDIRECTLY supporting terrorists/deviants.

So what's the future? ThePirateBay on stereoids. I mean not necessarily that site but the concept of running a site in a copyright-lax country such as Sweden (for now). But that's already happening.

The missing piece of the puzzle is Freenet ON TOP of APPROVED content by PirateBay (or such). In other words... You won't know what data your PC holds but it won't hold material that'll make the FBI break down your door, just because PirateBay would not approve such content. They will of course approve Movies, Music Albums, warez and such...

And the last missing piece of the puzzle -- the PirateBay clone will actually have an innocuous-sounding name and pirated material would only be a portion of the content. So, if an American visited that site, the American authorities would not be able to prove to any SANE JURY that the guy is: dangerous to national security/society; a clear copyright infringer. If 50% of content on that Swedish/Chinese server is stuff that is legal to distribute in the USA, say flickr-type images/amateur videos, linux/OO distributions, game patches, you know all the legal stuff bittorrent is used today...well if that happens then it's gonna be VERY tough to do anything to American users of such service. Piracy will be a by-product just like it's a by-product when you use MSN Messenger and a friend File Transfers you an illegal MP3.

This will happen when it needs to happen (when RIAA MPA starts getting more aggressive and accelerate the filing of lawsuits against end-users).

you can't kill p2p...period. stop trying, spend your money elsewhere, morons.

Perhaps with the passage of the time the MPAA/RIAA won't be dominated by older execs who remember the golden age of the 1970s, when they had all the power and could dictate all the terms, and they went yachting on a sea of money. They are determined to turn back the clock, and the more criticism they get the more they go on the offensive.

Not that I ever use an edonkey server since its the worst distro method available, but really, who cares? There will be another big server soon, and once thats taken down, another will popup.

Why can't they stop and just go after IRC? After they try to bring down a server, the hacker attacks will be so severe that the nation's internet won't work for weeks, and the US Govt. will force the RIAA to stop what they're doing.

:-)

Excellent suggestion, see MPAA's hotline above :-)

http://www.mindjack.com/feature/piracy051305.html
"Piracy is Good?"

Why have your advert seen by 10,000 people when you can have it seen by 10,000,000

A real solution to the 'copyright owner not getting any money' problem.

The Advertises buys an entire episode and 'brands' it, then shows it on TV and *encourages* people to share it using P2P.

Awesome read!

There's a "free" (tax funded) way to get movies and music (and books). They plan on shutting that down?

Elaborate.

The difference is if its pre-APPROVED by MPAA they won't have a problem, regardless if its free, p2p or not. They don't want it unless they condone it or have some part in making money off it, then its ok.

Isn't it wonderful how we live in such a gray society?

Libraries. Plenty of cds and dvds to copy directly from the medium. Still illegal, but seems a lot easier to me.

Often it just takes being friendly with the librarians to get them to purchase the stuff you want to see/hear. Often they will purchase more towards the end of the year to make sure they use up their budget, makes it a great time to request things.

or you dont even need to copy it as you can go there and get it for free anytime you want, and with libraries being so numerous if they are out of stock one place, go to the next one. plus their late fines are much more reasonable then blockbusters, i forget it for a week i get a 10 cent fine. if i lose it i pay what the item was worth. if i lose it at blockbuster i have to pay the price of a brand new retail version( about 15-20) even when blockbuster only pays about 4-8 per dvd

...

A glorious victory for the forces of Good over creepy file-sharers !

We should all be glad the Motion Picture Association of America is getting these criminals off the streets.

File-sharers should go to Gitmo for indefinite detention under harsh interrogation conditions.

Or, renditioned to secret prisons in primitive Third World countries where the governments claim they don't torture inmates !
...

The Computer Rodent

...

Careful - last I heard the RIAA consider it illegal to convert a medium from one format to another. That means if you want to buy a music CD, but also download music, then you need to buy both a CD player and an MP3 player, because ripping the CDs to MP3s for personal use is an offense punishable by fines and/or jail time. This means that legally you have to pay for a CD to get CD quality audio, and then pay for a download to get the MP3 support, and then download the MP3. After you own the MP3 from downloading, it's still illegal to rip your CD.

The result? Less CD sales and more illegal downloading. Gotta love it. :D

http://www.untitled13.co...02/riaa_says_its_i.html

Off the streets? Dude, quit watching Brittany Spears video re-runs, she isn't coming back.

There is a fine line between criminals who steal movies from a newsgroup and disseminate to the rest of the world using a p2p program, and companies that purposely price fix and band together to rape the american's of our capital. They can legitimately sell a product, and get away it ONLY until we put a stop to it, by refusing to buy.. they WILL lower their price IF we all decide this has to stop.

They are still crooks however, mobsters, gang leaders, politicians..etc

The dictate what goes on behind closed doors, and take advantage of the american public, its sickening.. So I really don't feel too bad about people making a mockery of their information, and spreading the wealth so to speak.

Is it illegal? Yes, do 2 wrongs make a right? NO.. but its still fun as hell.

Its also a way of protesting, and no one is really getting hurt. At least we as a small tight nit community are getting their attention, and they have to spend more money to remove sites like edonkey, but when they finally realize they are just being greedy, maybe they will actually do something to appease people instead of continuing to take advantage.

You're not a pc rat - you're a pc tit!

Woah. Now THAT is some serious news. Razorback 2 has been shutdown? THAT is almost unbelievable. Some serious bad news for that guy in Switzerland I can tell you that for nothing.

Can't we all just have a vast Xvid movie/show network that allows anyone to download anything anytime(after official release) if they put up with ads? I'd love that. Show/Video on demand - absolutely NO MORE TAPING!

I think AOL HI-Q was supposed to be like that, but it's WinXP/IE only. Oh, and no shows - only older movies?

"No matter how hard you try, you can't stop us now"

why do they bother? lol...like puffy said..'we cant stop, we wont stop' (filesharing)

If they met us half way.. by lowering prices, or asking our opinion on what can be done.. that would be a step in the right direction. But no, they won't even try to listen.

All they need, is a discussion board on their website.. Is that asking too much?

MPAA .... you suck !!!!!

No, this is very sad. Kad now i guess

OK. RIAA may be "rejoicing", but seriously... Bush said combat operations were over when?

MPAA, RIAA may rejoice too, but this is referring to the former..

One word: Kad. Good luck Riaa. I still show 3 million on, and it's growing again!

MPAA, not RIAA. (This time)

FYI.

"In addition, eDonkey has proven resilient to legal attacks in the past. The network's creator, MetaMachine, is facing an RIAA lawsuit and said it was "throwing in the towel" last September. But an open source iteration of the software, known as eMule, continues to be developed and is now in use by the vast majority of eDonkey downloaders."

Sorry, missed that part.

so what else is new? even if they close all servers, file sharing among friends will continue. You can connect an ipod to a friend's computer and get thousands of songs in a few minutes. There is also those street vendors that sell you a cd with hundreds of songs (NYC subway)so they cannot kill all file sharing, they will just piss people off and make them steal their music to get back at them.

I'm surprised they didn't mention anything about the decentralized Overnet network integrated into eDonkey, as eDonkey is two networks in one.

Wow. Razorback servers were just up this morning, and I was connected. I guess this explains why I can't connect to them now.

I guess I'll have to settle for one of the remaining 100 servers in my server list. :P

Whatever

IF the MPAA/RIAA would actually disclose their contact info and their physical address, instead of hiding, I would be picketing at their doorstep, and go in and talk to those dorks. Instead they run like cowards, because they know the public will give them an ear full.

Actually based on some of the comments in this thread and many other "Anti-MPAA/RIAA" threads, I'd fear for my life if I worked for them. Doesn't justify their actions but c'mon people we are being way too immature about this (not refering to you rijp). Let's speak out and constructively criticize them, but threatening them and and saying they are "demented" or "morons" does not do anyone a bit of good.

I must admit I have called groups morons too, I need to mature on this as well. We can be the better people though. Let the RIAA destroy themselves as they seem to be doing here. Don't make the anti-RIAA people look like non-objective hard-headed extremists.

I used to side with RIAA on this matter. I changed my mind. I am willing to change it again if I am wrong. Most Americans cannot understand that concept today. Be open-minded--even if you disagree you can at least understand the opposing point of view.

Geez, why am I so philisophical today? Weird...

OK, I actually am calm, and you are correct. I am being immature about this. So, I am working on my "constructive" criticism.

I was trying to be pointed, and not abusive, but what's more frustrating than ignorance, is not being able to contact the people in charge. That's really frustrates the hell out of me.

We can't call the RIAA/MPAA or email them, its some "webmaster" which is no help, believe me, I have emailed many times, a couple with extremely abusive explitives just to get any sort of rise out of them, nothing.

Fine, appearing on their doorstep may seem destructive, but boycotting on their steps may be the only way to get their attention. They obviously are not interested in public opinion.

I like it when you get philosophical.. you are like one of the very few that keeps us from losing our heads :) You and PC Tool always are good for either a laugh or devi's advocate.. either way, your opinions, which may be attacked, are still valued...

Don't give up man.

MPAA Contaqct Info:

Dan Glickman
Office of the Chairman and CEO
Washington, DC
1600 Eye St., NW
Washington, DC 20006
(202) 293-1966 (main)
(202) 296-7410 (fax)

Los Angeles
15503 Ventura Blvd.
Encino, California 91436
(818) 995-6600 (main)
(818) 382-1795 (fax)

New York (Anti-Piracy Office)
One Executive Blvd. Suite 455
Yonkers, NY 10701
(914) 378-0800 (main)
(914) 378-0048 (fax)

Sao Paulo, Brazil
Rua Sergipe 475, 10th Floor
Higienópolis
São Paulo, SP 01243-001
011-5511-3667-2080 (main)
011-5511-3825-5544 (fax)

Brussels, Belgium
108 rue du Trône
B-1050 Brussells
011-32-2-778-2711 (main)
011-32-2-778-2700 (fax)

Singapore
No. 1 Magazine Road
Central Mall #04-07
Singapore 059571
011-65-6253-1033 (main)
011-65-6255-1838 (fax)

Toronto, Canada (CMPDA)
22 St. Clair Avenue, East
Suite 1603
Toronto M4T 2S4
(416) 961-1888 (main)
(416) 968-1016 (fax)

Yes, I have all this info..time and time again. Call these numbers, ANY of these so-called contacts, you will get voice mail or dead phone numbers. This isn't helpful. I have this info, the website, webmaster, and all these phone numbers.. But you can't talk to anyone, and leaving a message does nothing.

You try it, see how far you get.

BTW I was not specifically refering to you when I wrote that...thanks for your post :)

Your better off writing your congress person. They can do more then call the office MPAA. You can win a battle with a high priced lawyer!!

RIAA Says Ripping CDs to Your iPod is NOT Fair Use

is the future!!! WarnerBros + WarnerDistrubution + Time Warner cable + TV channels = monopoly

I thought this was STOPPED in 1908!! The Motion Picture Patents Company vs. the Independent Outlaws

This was

OMG, he's lucid!

*grin*

Welcome back, man. I knew if we stuck it out long enough we'd see the level-headed rijp again one of these days. ;)

Gotta admit, I've never actually even bothered to *try* and contact them, mainly due to your posts on the impossibility of doing so in the past.

Perhaps that's an issue? I mean, people see this and figure, "Why bother?" Maybe we need to get *more* people on this. Ineffective as it is now, I gotta think that someone will eventually get wind of it if it's more than just one person...

Your better off writing your congress person. They can do more then call the office MPAA. You can win a battle with a high priced lawyer!

Don't bother! Dan Glickman is an ex-congressman from Kansas. Now he is just another frigging lobbyist with an office in the District of Criminals. His friends won't do anything not supported by his new employers. That's how government works in the USA. Money talks...

rijp – and what would you tell them? I mean of any substance that would make them change their pricing method. Though there has been some debate over what is “fair-use”(http://arstechnica.com/n...post/20060215-6190.html), they have not tried to stop anyone from burning a cd in which they purchased to place on 1 device. However, they do frown upon the sharing of that ripped song(s) to others which circumvents their revenue.

We live in a society where everyone(musician, music executive) wants to live the good life – drive a Mercedes, live in a mansion, get my wife her boobs and blonde hair, etc. However, those come with a price tag. The mere price of a CD reflects that view. Now, I don’t think that any of us are so broke that they cannot go down to the store and buy a CD. However, you are not forced to buy hundreds of CDs – not even one. It is a choice that you decide to make. You can either buy it or not.

The only way in which to really do any harm to them, is not to buy the CD. (don’t steal it, because they will get money from you that way too – just don’t buy) This very act will hurt them and only then will change(true) take place. Arguing with them, or as you say "giving them an ear full", is not doing anything but adding to the problem. Most likely it will be you that has the problem, because you will end up in jail for file-sharing while they will continue to count their money. Not a win-win situation!

I want a Mercedes Benz, and cannot pay the price. So, I am going to stand out in front of headquarters and give them an earful on the cost of their cars and not allowing the common worker attain one. The argument does not seem to be the one you would want to take up with them or your congressperons – for they cannot do anything either. It isn’t price fixing or gouging, but just plain economics with a little supply-and-demand thrown in.