OK guys. Let a pirate speak.

I use a pirated version of Windows XP pro whixh does now require activation at all (not modified..directly from MS).
So no activation crap for me.

About WGA,
It's easily cracked. You dont even need experience. Im using IE7 WMP11 which are supposed to be not running on pirated copies.

I used have legit copies of Win2k and XP Home. 2k works fine but WGA went crazy on the XP home and called me a victim of software counterfeiting. I said **** em and have been using cracked MS products ever since.

Im not bragging but tt's easier this way.

http://www.thetownmouse.com

It's one thing to want to fight piracy. But when your company is raking it in by the billions and your software is on most everyone computer, why screw the money to punish the few?

Not only that but the people who are using office illegally are not exactly going to all of a sudden fork over hundreds of dollars when they already know better. So we all know whats next and that is if their guru friends can't get them a free version of ms office they are going to get asked what else is available. I have the feeling opeoffice.org and the web versions of office will be getting a huge increase in user base and popularity.

NOw microsoft will argue that these office suites are pal in comparison and behind the times, but who really cares? I would like to think of myself as a computer guru and I don't have a clue what 90% of the features in office 2003 do. I never used project or one note or heck even really experienced access. Now imagine what the average home user knows? Yet oem's, best buy and everyone else push it on them with advertising and brand recognition.

I will personally make it a point that everyone I know and the people I pass in best buy know there are free versions of office out there that will do what you need it to do, are you a big time office junky that knows what all those features buried in office do? Then you probably won't be in best buy buying it.

Anyway microsoft is really screwing themselves. They have to realize that by taking away pirated copies of office they will be starting to open people's eyes up that they are not the only company out there anymore that makes software.

Nonsense. They don't screw themselves by cutting off freeloaders.

You either buy their product or you use an alternative. They are simply betting that their product offers a compelling advantage. And for all of the whiners it evidently does, or they wouldn't care. And for those using alternatives, they don't care either. And the real world is larger than that of high school and college and those who hang out in Best Buy.
Especially when alternatives like WP and Open Office are not taking the world by storm...like it or not.

The one aspect above that I completely agree with is that few know what all the features and capabilitities are in Office, let alone actually have a need for them or use them. And until you reach a point where this is ritical, it is rather strange to listen to so many complain that they need the latest version of Office. Why not be content with Office 2003 or even earlier. Simple angst does not present a compelling reason to have the latest greatest Office.

And I love the comment below...that authenticating legitimate copies will drive many authentic users away. That is an old argument. Just like Windows sales are reeling from having to authorize the OS installation has caused MS to backtrack. Unfortunately, focusing on the concerns of the fringe illegal market is not what drives the mainstream market segments.

The irony is that Office is one of the last programs to require this procedure - a model which has - whether you like it or not - become the norm in the industry.

And the real joke that few have noticed, is how many have ever used one of the templates? The failure to have access to these templates is one of the most empty threats ever made - especially when you consider how unfortunately worthless they are. In fact, the one that is worthwhile would be newsworthy!

I can guarntee you that if openoffice somehow was able to open a massive advertising campaign saying try our office product its free and it works with ms office. it would drive ms's office sales into the ground for the most part. While corporate users might still need office for its advanced features. There are a lot of home users that don't know something free exists. That would be the market that would be taken away. The casual mom's and dad's getting their child ready for school and need a word processor on their new computer.

usually what happend si they buy a new computer, it has a 2003 trial on it. it says you have to dish out 200 dollars or whatever for it. now imagine loo openoffice.org is free check it out and its compatible with microsoft office!!

So yeah, uneducated public and brand recognition do a lot for you. Microsoft would not have 50 percent of its revenue today if it wasn't for that reason.

The great thing about this s*** in policy at Microsoft is that it will cause many legitimate users as well as the pirated users to jump ship from Microsoft to competing products.

When Microsoft first started out, Bill Gates promised that the productivity of Microsoft clients not the profit margin of Microsoft would dominate all company endeavors.

We're beginning to see a s*** in this policy. It reminds me of when Starbucks Coffee pledged to customers that they would never allow drive-through windows in their stores nor the establishment of Starbucks franchises. We've seen both of these things come to pass without a revolt from their consumer base. Only time will tell if Microsoft can survive the same change in policy.

I won't repeat many of the good comments already made, but keep in mind they are just referring to the download and use of templates. Most people in general probably don't even know what those templates are. (I realize betanews posters are not "most people," though.)

PS Happy Halloween, PC Rat

Again, good to see you were banned. I guess it showed you how to post a PROPERLY formatted post and not use the third person all the time, which made your posts less then credible.

thank you for the uneducated personal attack

I am no Microsoft fan. And, I try to find better or even equal alternatives to their products where possible in an attempt to do my share of keeping Microsoft vigilant. I agree that Microsoft has its share of skeletons in it's closets and is guilty of many wrongdoings regarding customers and other software developers. That being said, it is still important to recognize that two wrongs don't necessarily make things right. Microsoft, like other software developers spent a great deal of money and time to form their products and deserve to get compenstated for that effort. That is what drives free enterprise and capitalism to provide new products and improve on existing ones. Unfortunately, much of the criticism seen in forums like this are misdirected at Microsoft when they should be directed at those individuals and companies that make every excuse possible to rationalize that pirating software is acceptable and even necessary to combat the evils of Microsoft. They are the ones that are driving Microsoft and other companies to employ practices that ultimately infringe on legitimate customers. There is no way for these companies to know if software used on a PC is legally licensed except by activation and validation methods. If all users were honest then those tactics would not be necessary and I'm sure that Microsoft and others would not waste their resources developing them. But, in an effort to protect their investments and to better insure deserved recovery for them, Microsoft and others have been pushed into the position of developing and utilizing those methods. There are other products on the market that compete with Microsoft's. However, it is obvious that Microsoft has done their job well enough that their products are favored by consumers in a large percentage of cases. I'm all for the development of Linux distrobutions to provide Microsoft with the incentive to improve their OSes. And, OpenOffice.org and other office suites are available as replacements for Microsoft Office. If it is thought that Microsoft is so bad then use only their competitor's products. Money will be saved on software that way. However, if Microsoft's products are providing benefits that the competitors don't and those benefits are significant enough to cause the use of those Microsoft's products then Microsoft deserves to be compensated for providing those benefits.

very intelligent ;)

As some may know from my little humble posts, I am for MS and it's products, though never completely blind. :p

I am one of those that have a lot of understanding for what companies have to resort to, even if it buggers me.(not in the perverted way)

I've used many of these free and/or open source alternatives, and many times they just aren't as good, are pretty decent but need a lot more work...or sadly in some cases, just use the moniker of open source alternative like a marketing scheme. The latter often works if it relies on the instincts of many to just "belong".

As something similar and less formal...games. Some games use copy protection...some of which are quite intrusive. Starforce for example. I was loathe to put up with it, but when you're an honest consumer and want a product, you'll go with it (up to limits of course). I purchased a handful of games with Starforce. I hate the way it works, but I wholely understand why it just has to be done sometimes.

Even knowing these protection algorithms aren't 100% and sometimes point the finger back at you, I will still buy. It's just the decent thing to do. (just better give me my money back when I can't use a game or app) >:)

Heh...
Starforce.

Hate that. Uninstalled it once (F.E.A.R. installed it, I believe). I had finished the game, uninstalled the game, and SF was still there. Removed SF and my computer went berserk.

I'm sure there might have been other software on there to add to the "berserk", but the SF uninstall triggered it.

I've purchased two SF-protected games since then. In utter fear (F.E.A.R.?) of installing SF again, I have yet to install them.

I haven't decided yet if I want to try and get my money back for them (unopened), or see if I can't find some way around the SF thing and still be able to play them. I sure as hell don't want SF on my system again...

I think it's funny as hell though that F.E.A.R. caused my fear of SF. Heh... bitter irony, I guess.

Scary game. Lame-ass ending though.

I only use Outlook though. At least until Thunderbird supports Hotmail.

So what does this mean for Outlook users?

Switch to GMail!

Wrong way round.
Hotmail need to support Thunderbird, which won't happen.

They don't let anyone near their POP3 info.

Or Inbox.com. 5gb space for email and storage (even mp3's), POP3 support, and no ad's on there webmail. I like to use the Notes in it too.

I like the layout better than gmail too.

To tell you the truth, I used to like Gmail like everyone else. But while in the process of telling everyone and changing everything to gmail instead of my Yahoo account, someone hacked it and changed my password. I couldn't do the "Forgot Password" because that bas@#rd changed my secondary email to his own also; and it would send the password to his email.

I finally contacted Gmail and told them what happend and about a month later got it back. Who now's what he did to it, but now I get a bunch of spam in it too.

I haven't used Gmail since.

OpenOffice

Working with 3 PCs, all with pirated XP Versions. All passing the WGA check.
So what the hell do I care bout that...

ROFL

Normally I would be angry at someone like you for pirating software, but I don't know... Your comment struck me as really funny for some reason.

All I can say is that with six computers, I'm going to have to give something else a try.

I'm a student, without a lot of money, but I want to stay well organized. Naturally, I would want to buy Office for students, right? This will give me Word, Powerpoint, OneNote and Outlook, right? Wrong! No Outlook. Okay, so I move up to the next version, pay nearly $100 more and get Outlook. But wait, now OneNote is gone. So, what do I have to do to get OneNote, Word, Powerpoint, and Outlook (programs most often used by the average student) in one suite . I have to buy Ultimate at $679!? There goes the beer money! Okay, I see that I can buy the student edition and buy Outlook separately and this will only cost me $249. It's a good thing I went to college, or I might never have figured that out.

Of course, if the activation doesn't work just one time, I'll probably need the other $400 for the stitches in my hand after I put my fist through my monitor.

Hmmm...You might want to check around a bit more! As a student or educator you can source almost any version of MSOffice via academic distributors (not just some screwy campus bookstore) - and for prices Much less than those you quote! MSOffice2003Pro goes for ~$135 from almost any independent academic reseller.

And its funny to watch so many with illegal copies freaking out! When was the last time anyone used an online template? Has anyone even bothered to look at them? And so you don't have the latest update...I guess you haven't been able to cope up to now.

And the thought of slumming with MSWorks must really confuse so many hard core 'power users' who I am sure are using ALL of the Word functions - despite the fact that only a fraction of them actually work and even less are able to be configured in a usable fashion. ;-)

But as usual, the usual panic and response ensues...and So much righteous indignation, passion and angst by those who have stolen the software.

Just think, maybe some of you might have to reconsider rushing out to buy a new HD game system and HD DVD player. Poor babies...

Currently, those potential prices are unavailable, since the software hasn't been released. In fact, Microsoft ended many discount programs that were available in schools, so even discounted on-campus prices are far less available than before.

...oops.

While I thank you for the initial suggestion in the first paragraph, the rest of your "reply" seems misdirected. Academic discounts used to be substantial. However, ogman is right; discounts of Microsoft products have been scaled way back, unless you are trying to buy a previous version of the software.

As for the rest of your diatribe, maybe you were just trying to be comical, especially when you complained about the "righteous indignation" of others.

The irony is that I do know whereof I speak. And the CURRENT prices for the complete MSOffice2003 PRO is ~$135 with ID or copy of the registration slip.

And for $135 for MSOffice2003Pro you do get Outlook!! The package includes Microsoft® Office Word 2003, Excel 2003,Outlook 2003,& PowerPoint 2003 are included. And if Only OneNote was worth the money! Save your money and get MindManager.

And NO, I do not recommend going through most college book stores! And anyone using eFollet, etc. bookstores has obviously failed to do any comparative shopping.

But as you are a student, I find it humorous that you seem to feel the need for Sharepoint Designer, Project, Viso, MapPoint, etc. Especially seeing as how much universities are not even taking advantage of collaborative networking - nor, in many assignments, even allowing it.
And I am sure that as a student you absolutely need the ability to institute Information Rights and Policy Management capabilities, Integrated Content Management (as you are running Sharepoint Server!), and Advanced Support of Customized E-Forms.

The discounts for 2003 Pro and other packages are ABSOLUTELY available! And no, you can't buy 2007 yet! Noone can! But there is nothing so compelling in 2007 that you can't do everything you need to do with MSOffice2003.

And academic discounts for software are extremely substantial for most packages! Only hardware discounts have been substantially scaled backas the computer market has become a commodity market with little markup.

You might want to go back and use this as an excuse to do a little more 'market research' in ascertaining your real functional product needs.

And for the other guy, do you really think that my comments about whining were directed towards the myriad idjets complaining about how unfair it is that they are not able to upgrade their STOLEN copies of Office? Duh!

"But as you are a student, I find it humorous that you seem to feel the need for Sharepoint Designer, Project, Viso, MapPoint, etc."

And on, and on, and on...

Office 2003? Viso? You obviously misread my comments and you seem intent on ranting about things that no one said. I'll leave you to that. Good luck.

I can't decide if you're ignorant or lying. I bought the Student version of Office 2003, and it has Outlook. At the time I bought it, I hadn't even heard of OpenOffice, so I didn't know it was an option ...and it wasn't as robust then anyway.

Check out the chart near the top of this page: http://www.microsoft.com...s/howtobuy/compare.mspx

See? It's exactly the same as Standard Edition but at a $250 discount. A 62.5% discount is nothing to sneeze at, especially on something so expensive.

He is referring to the plans for Office 2007.

Uh-huh.

You obviously have no idea what are included in the different packages you have mentioned.

YOU mentioned the desire for MSOffice Ultimate...you might want to discover what is in it!

Your comments are so jumbled with misinformation that any misinterpretation is in your incorrect assumptions and your ignorance of what is included in the packages, as I am fully aware of what is included in each MSOffice bundle. Unfortunately you are not.

And it seems that you are upset over Outlook not being included! I think that says it all...

Wow, being stupid is a fulltime job for you. I can't believe that you missed the sarcasm of spongy-poo's first post and then followed that up with one dumba$$ reply after another. I think you've overdosed on your Ritalin.

Well dangit... why didn't you spell it out for me? You can't actually expect me to infer something so simple. I need everything in nice, easy-to-read, point-by-point layouts. Please try harder next time. Thanks. =p

/sarcasm/feeling stupid

Hey, you could have stubbornly kept insisting you were right, like the fool below!

edited and messed up to badly to fix! :(

First genius, I wasn't only replying to spongebath.
And second, spongebath is the genius that can't figure out what is included in Office.
And you have missed my sarcasm.
Poor folks that can't use daddy's credit card to buy software.

Of course, if they were half as smart as any of them say they are they would be MS Partners and have an Action Pack subscription, thus reciving many licenses for everything MS produces for less than the price of one copy of their OS or any application.

Talk about stupid. Go back to playing your games or swapping MP3s and whining about stolen software.

Hey, no problem. :o)

I can't figure out if you are 5 years old and need a diaper change, or 80 and bitter about your wasted life. Either way, I have no more time to waste on you. See Ya!

Oh wait. One question, which Office version would I order to get "Viso" and MapPoint?

So, thus far you state that you know nothing.
Look it up schoolboy.

Or he could simply prove it by example as you have.

Its so easy to push your buttons...

LOL! There isn't one! You are hereby presented the Glass Belly Button Award. Congratulations and G'nite.

Office 2k7 doesn't have academic editions? You can get Office 2003 Pro Acad Edition for around $250AU, or about $30-40 dearer than the 'Office 2003 Student & Teacher Edition' which the OP is talking about.

If you actually are a full-time student, the academic edition is a far better choice than the 'Student & Teacher' version. It's the same as Office Pro.

Perhaps MS US licensing differs from MS AUS licensing, but we usually sell the Office Student & Teacher to home users (as they're allowed to install it on 3 machines legally), and the Acad Pro to students and teachers. Go figure. :/

Ignorance is indeed bliss in your peaceful little world. I also referred to being a MS Parter and Action Pk subscriber where you receive EVERYTHING MS produces (many licenses for each product in fact) for LESS than the price of any one component... and hence the product mix is much greater than Office.

Duh! Have fun trying to figure out how to buy Office...while we get more for less than you'll pay for one app! We don't have a problem with authorization, hence our big smile at your oh so sad dilemma!

To become a member of the MS Partner program you need to be running a legitimate computer business where you would sell and promote MS products. So if we all lie to MS we can get a discount? Lie to get the discount or pirate the software? So what one is the legal way?

Who suggested lying??? If you and so many others here took just 1/2 of the energy they spend b!tching and whining and used it to start a small business - which BTW doesn't have to compete in scale with IBM - especially since you are all SO computer literate, you could qualify.

But I guess that idea of legitimately qualifying never entered your mind, as you are still busy thinking along the 'how can I get it free' (software, MP3s, etc.....).

Do you have any idea how little it costs to
"start your own business"?

Practically nothing.

Why lie?

All the MS products for $400 a year? It's a no-brainer. Every computer tech in the world should have a home-business....even if it's just for the Action-Pack.

Hell, call it "GordieT AP". ;) Ya get like 10 licenses for most products in the pack, so you get to help out your friends as well. (just make sure they're listed as "employees".

I suggested lying. Did you not read my post? Many people would lie. If they are willing to pirate software why would they not lie too. I'm not b****ing or whining, just pointing out a lot of people would sign up for the MSPP and lie about being a legitimate business.

BTW I have my own computer consulting firm and the AP.

while I am not so sure that OGA is required for German versions of Office 2003 pro, I still installed the activex and checked my office validity. surprise surprise, it said it wasn't genuine. So I extracted the office 2003 pro + frontpage 2003 serials from my university network and changed the keys on my computer. tried the validation procedure again, this time MS said all products are genuine. hihihi.

To change the Office and frontpage product keys, follow these instructions:

http://support.microsoft...ID=1033&kbid=895456

btw, Office Proofing tools validity is not checked. MS says it's genuine even if you are using a pirated key. Validity issues apply only to Office 2003 and frontpage 2003. what's really strange, till now MS did not check the validity of frontpage 2003 (or rather reported it as genuine even if a well known pirated key was used), but now it does and if the key is pirated, MS complains.

@all below: don't use sunoffice or open office! both programmes suck! I've been using both on linux mandrake and they are completely UNUSABLE! if you have to write something, switch to winxp by restarting the pc and use MS office

...Now THERE is an endorsement of Linux! ;-)

ahhh...what's an application? ;-) ;-)

Astroturfers: Nature's way of telling you that the baby's diaper is full.

"...don't use sunoffice or open office! both programmes suck! I've been using both on linux mandrake and they are completely UNUSABLE! if you have to write something, switch to..."

Yeah-sure-right!
http://www.gabston-howel...7_OOo2.0.2_so8.png.html

"@all below: don't use sunoffice or open office! both programs suck! I've been using both on linux mandrake and they are completely UNUSABLE! if you have to write something, switch to winxp by restarting the pc and use MS office"

Thanks for the laugh.....no really, that's funny. 1st of all Open Office is an excellent program. 2nd Why would I, a Linux user, defile my computer with that Microsoft garbage?

It just makes me want to throw up the number of Microsoft fanboys who post on these websites defending everything Microsoft does wrong.

Instead of pirating, why not try Open Office 2.x? I swear - it is a VERY good app. I use Neo Office (the Mac Version) on OS X and it kicks tail. Comes with a database even.

Open Office is 100% free, as is the Neo Office version. It puts Microsoft to shame in terms of value.

Plus, you don't have to deal with that massive interface change coming with Office 2007, if you don't want to.

I agree that OpenOffice.org is a good office suite considering what you get for free, but it needs a major interface change. OpenOffice.org 2.x doesn't look much different than the crappy inefficient interface in Microsoft Office 97 for Windows PC's.

Yes, that's the downside of the whole open source concept - the incentive just isn't there to go the last mile, which is often the hardest part.
Creating good user interfaces requires a lot of interaction with customers, test groups and the like - that stuff doesn't seem to happen in the open source community BECAUSE IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE to do it properly.

The GIMP is a perfect example of this - it may have terrific functionality but it's HORRIBLE to use, compared with Photoshop or PSPro, etc.

If GIMP is too clumsy for you, try Gimpshop it's organized almost identical to photoshop

Please wait the force genuine chcek until february or march. where vista and office 2007 is spread. so people will buy it when micosoft shut down the office which is not genuine.
but don't do it too fast yet.
it will not good

While it's not viable for everyone, OpenOffice is pretty nice and still free. MS is only shooting themselves in the foot and driving people (at least) to consider OO as a possible alternative. Good for OO.

I've been using Office XP PRO Teacher Edition for years now. Downloaded from Limewire, never asks for validation or serial, and updates fine on the Microsoft Update.
I can no way afford to spend that much for software that updates every year. It is nice software though and should be included with the OS IMO. I stopped tying to find cracks, keygens, hacks and serials for a while now, heck I even donate money to some of the freeware programs. Got to keep the small programs going, Microsoft isn't going to go out of business from the few that get hacks.

Is this for all versions of office?

We have 3 - 97 Pro, 2000 Pro and XP Pro.

I have heard that the next "Teacher" edition will now be called the "Family" edition and will allow installation on up to 3 machines at the same time, which sounds great.

But if the validation thing don't work, I think I'm gonna be irritated.

Validation is not possible for Office 97 because Product Activation was not built into any version of Office 97.

The initial release of Office 2000 also did not include Product Activation. It was slipstreamed into SR1 media. (SR1 is not exactly the same as SP1. The apps themselves are the same, but SR1 media is different. Also, the do-it-yourself "slipstream" technique you see on various web sites is not the same as getting the real SR1 slipstream. The do-it-yourself approach is really just building an admin install point intended for a network file share but slapping the files onto CD.)

Since some copies of Office 2000 cannot be validated, Microsoft has chosen to forgo validation for all of Office 2000. Therefore, only Office XP and later are required to validate.

I have purchased the office 2007 beta...and it will not validate...says microsoft's validations system is offline.......so I am pretty much screwed.

Yeah, i recently reinstalled windows and have the same problem. It refuses to connect to their servers for validation. I got two more runs left...

did you also install the technical refresh? might have to...not sure

Have you bothered to contact them? There is an "over the phone" option last I checked. They are very reasonable when you explain that you're reinstalling it.

I think the latest word on the beta is that there is no phone support.

Yeah, I'm sure the people who use MS Office illegally will never find a crack for it. And meanwhile the legit user will have to suffer with this validation nonsense. And I'm sure someone out there with a legit copy will get a non genuine message. And they will have to spend hours or days on the phone M$ to get it rectified. When will M$ realized that they're alienating those people that actually spend hundreds of dollars on their products. I predict a surge in OpenOffice users within the next year.

I'd rather have me spending 10 more minutes on validation, rather than 10 more people using pirated softwares.

but nevertheless, I agree, probably in two days, or maybe less, cracks are going to come out.

The people that are using illegal software can be up and running in seconds while you, the legit user that paid hundreds of dollars has to spend 10 minutes to validate a legal copy. Personally I really don't care if other people are using pirated software. But when I buy software I don't want to jump through hoops because some a$$hole is using a pirated copy. Every time M$ asks for validation they are basically accusing all of their clients of being thieves. At least that's how I look at it.

That's exactly what they're doing. Especially with the new WGA Notifier calling home, they say once a week now. Its saying, "Have you stolen a your copy yet? Have you stolen a your copy yet? ....."

Anyone on these message boards who claims 10 minutes or short validations times, has NEVER had to do it themselves.

I can guarantee you, it will take you a LOT longer than that. Its a huge hassle, and totally uncalled for when a person has paid for the product already. But what does Microsoft care. They have already been convicted many times in different states for stealing from customers.

I takes me less than 10 minutes--and yes I have validated multiple XP Pro installs...

...it CAN take more than 10 minutes if you call in, but usually less than that.

...please read http://blogs.msdn.com/wga/default.aspx . I realise you probably have better/more important things to do, so if you don't read it all, that's fine--just know that most things that people say is a Microsoft problem is not. In fact, almost every WGA problem I hear about has been due to a software problem other than Microsoft.

Irrelevant. I shouldn't have to ask permission to update my hardware no matter how often I do it.

WGA Notifier is an insult. I can understand when you first install Windows, but not to constantly spy on one which says that you can't be trusted at all. That you're guilty, period, its only a matter of time.

At the end of August, I had to help several students on my college campus re-active their windows. In fact, I did so for 20-some students. Each time I was on the phone for less than 10 minutes.

Which means you spend close to 200 minutes to reactivate Windows! That's 3 hours of your life and that doesn't bother you? Having the hassle of calling M$ to use something that was already paid for??? Even if it's ten seconds it's unnecessary.

As a pilot I'm always abroad, and I can tell you that 800 numbers don't work anywhere else. Have you ever had to activate via phone while outside of the US??? You should try it once and see how much fun it is and how much it's going to cost.

Agreed

Can you imagine what would happen if every week you were pulled over by the same cop that slammed you on the hood of your car, frisked you, then says it's only for you protection. LOL

well, if that happens, I'd think.
"oh well, it's America"

i bought a pc in 2001 ..it came w/ winblows millenium!! ...gateway/microsoft charged me $200 for a "upgrade CD" for xp home!!

that's when i decided to become a "thief" after i was screwed when xp came out less than 1 month after i bought my POS OS!!

So, what you're actually saying is:

"I was too stupid to actually do any research before making a major purchase...and I got screwed! So now, instead of thinking or trying to avoid getting screwed, I just steal it."

Brilliant. Your momma must be *so* proud of you.

I just wish I could do that with hardware. The first stick of memory I bought cost be almost $200, then prices dropped dramatically about 6 months later...the same stick cost about $50.

Sucks to be on the losing side of a price-drop.

Of course, 6 months... That's a whole lot of waiting.

I'm betting you *didn't* hop on BN and start whining about it, though.

Yeah... I paid $240 total for 2 512MB SD cards a couple years ago. Within 6 months, I could have bought both of them for a quarter of the price.

It's just the way it is. Technology prices always drop (assuming it's not obscure or abandoned).

If activation worked 100% of the time for legal customers, no big deal. If you have hundreds of users, and have to talk through every license, feel the seething bitterness in advance...

" If you have hundreds of users, and have to talk through every license, feel the seething bitterness in advance..."

That's what coorporate licenses are for, drumcat :D

You must've missed the part about them changing corporate licenses...

Who cares?

We use Linux and StarOffice/OpenOffice.org; don't have to go through the hassle of validating anything; aren't restricted--by idiots--in how we choose to use our computers; and spend our money on things like more hardware, dinner out, movies...having fun.

Let's see...what *do* they call that, again?

I remember, now: "Freedom." (Funny how you can take some things for granted.)

you don't care? Yet you took the time to respond to something you care nothing for and want nothing to do with? amazing!

Let me go back and make comments on things I don't care about as well! :D

Hey lookit! Freedom! Just don't be arrogant about it and think you're the only one who's privvy to it. :)

I choose MS Office, I have 2 copies of 2k3. It will take me a while to get 2k7. But I will save a little, buy it and register it! I don't mind it! Freedom! hehe

"you don't care?"

I don't care about microsoft extortion tactics in the least. That's your yoke to bear, or discard, in whatever lawful way you are permitted.

During Internet outbreaks like Sapphire, I care that there are so many exploited windoze machines out there, causing problems for the people who don't use windoze. You windoze users are an irritatingly inconvenient lot for the rest of the world to tolerate. ( http://www.openaddict.com/page.php?18 & sub-links )

Otherwise, if you like wasting your money--feel free to do so. Just don't expect well-informed people to respect you for it.

*lmao*

Free!=Freedom.

It just means you are willing to settle for less.

Less ease of use. Less integration. Less features...

"By PC_Tool posted Oct 30, 2006 - 10:22 AM

*lmao*
Free!=Freedom.
It just means you are willing to settle for less.
Less ease of use. Less integration. Less features... "

Hello, Fanboy.
I commend you upon your choice of an unusually descriptive alias; which adequately serves as advance-warning of the depth and breadth of the ignorance contained in the text which immediately follows it.

Please feel free to return and contribute further--as soon as you are able to obtain something approximating a clue.

As a starting point, I suggest that you actually install a contemporary Linux distribution.

I've purchased every version of Word and MS Office since 1989 (make sap jokes now), and at what point does Microsoft decide to trust me, the paying customer instead of treating me like a thief every time I boot?

Although I've yet to grow to love the Ribbon after beta testing 2007 much of the year, I think this announcement yesterday to authenticate Office every time will further lure undecideds (and poor guys like me) to reconsider OpenOffice or a great alternative like SoftMaker Office. While I think the biggest advantage to Office 2007 is the new file format (with Open XML), it's strange that Microsoft releases another user-hostile press release about Vista and Office '07 almost daily now, before the products have even been released.

Who's with me that Vista and Office '07 is shaping up to be Microsoft's two greatest failures?

They treat you like a thief? Better call Microsoft--did you let your Product Key get out to someone that may have used it?

Really, is Microsoft saying you do not have a legitimate copy when you do? What's the specific problem you're having? Which version is it?

"Who's with me that Vista and Office '07 is shaping up to be Microsoft's two greatest failures?"

With all due respect, sir/madaam, I believe this upcoming year will be one of Microsoft's finest yet.

You are confusing DRM (Digital Rights Management) with Copy-Protection.

DRM is most commonly used to treat is customers like thieves; while Copy Protection is most commonly used to remind thieves that they are thieves.

Microsoft's finest year just around the corner???
Yeah, tell that to MSFT shareholders. Shares of Microsoft have not risen in five years. Which is about the same time they started with this activation crap.

You need to drive up to D.C. and help Congress and the Senate figure that out also. They quite often confuse the two.

I don't get the confusion. DRM has nothing to do with software validation. I install the program, Microsoft validates my copy, my serial number, my activation code, my machine ID, my DNS, and whatever else they collect. Done. How come I have to get Microsoft's permission to use the software they already validated and I already purchased before I can get to work?

I'm not a terrorist either, but it gets old being felt up and by the security guard every time I want to board a plane. Maybe that crap turns you on; not me. It's not about having a "valid copy" — Microsoft has proven I'm not a thief — it's about having to prove it every day for the life of the software.

That's the crux.

Activation is flawed. Folks have found work-arounds, VLKs, corp installs, etc....

The only way for MS to verify that a copy is legit now is to check it every time it is run. If they were to allow it to be checked once and then save a key to the registry, or change bit here and there, the pirates would copy that key or change that bit and they'd have a way around it.

Yeah, it's a PITA. But I think we should be blaming the damn pirates, and not MS.

In a perfect world, it'd be free. This ain't a perfect world (in case you hadn't noticed).

Gripe about it not being free, hell, I can understand that. But griping about them trying to keep their products out of the hands of pirates? ...just doesn't make sense in the real world.

Exactly.

My interpretation:

Who cares? I have a genuine copy of Microsoft Office--any of you whining thieves upset that your illegal stolen copy of Microsoft Office no longer works? Sure, use OpenOffice, do Microsoft the favor. Anything's better than stealing...

Note: I am not calling any individual users posting against Genuine Advantage thieves, just the one's that gripe because they are thieves.

The "thieves" don't have a problem at all with it, and that is the problem. They can, and do, bypass it with ease.

The other problem is when it falsely identifies you as having a pirated copy. I bought the retail version of Office 2003 Student & Teacher Edition and still have the CDs to prove it.

My only guess is that someone used a keygen program that happened to come up with my key (S&T edition allows installation on up to 3 computers), which is another thing that I really hate about software piracy. By using these random keys, they cause problems for legitimate customers...

"and still have the CDs to prove it."

The CD's prove nothing--do you people still think the license is with the CD's? It's the COA, people, the CD's are replaceable...

"My only guess is that someone used a keygen program that happened to come up with my key (S&T edition allows installation on up to 3 computers), which is another thing that I really hate about software piracy. By using these random keys, they cause problems for legitimate customers... "

Yes, there I do agree with you. The thing is, Microsoft wants to find out where you got it, how you got it, etc., when that happens, so they can know if the thieves somehow already had the key.

Again, WGA has not caused me any problems, and even on my brother's 'not so legal' copy of XP, it still validates his copy, so I personally have not had to deal with the activation problems...except for that time with an HP.

Some friend of mine's grandfather had sent his HP to Geek Squad about a year ago. They did not have the "recovery CDs" because it was one of those PCs that you had to burn your own recovery media. Well, he had viruses, and when Geek Squad 'fixed' them, they actually installed another Windows on there. Well, around June of this year, back when MS made some major changes to WGA, he started getting those messages about invalid copy of windows and such, so he called me for help. Some bas**** that worked for Geek Squad had installed their own Windows XP Pro version to fix the issue, and since the grandfather did not have all the money to buy a new version of windows, they just found "another way" to fix it.

Now, please understand: I did get it validated with Microsoft, and after a tiny bit of trouble convincing Microsoft that this man deserves the full copy of XP Pro for his trouble, he got it. So MS gave him A NEW SEPARATE WINDOWS XP PRO LICENSE, while he still had a license for his XP Home--all he needed was to purchase HP recovery CDs. So he got himself a real deal there.

By the way, the Geek Squad member was caught as far as I know, and last I heard there was a huge crackdown about GS using pirated software, but I do believe this was the work of an individual and not something Geek Squad ever had permission to do. Point: Yes, I personally hate the GS over in my area, but for other reasons--they are now better enforcing software rules from the main company so that misguided employees will no longer do what the one did to my friend's grandfather.

"The "thieves" don't have a problem at all with it, and that is the problem. They can, and do, bypass it with ease."

Please do read my comment far above regarding the real thieves--luckily, thieves usually do not make the reinstall CDs with the cracks built in to them--only on the original install :)

It still isn't a problem for them. They aren't the ones affected by this.

The more you tighten your grip Microsoft, the more users will slip through your fingers.

Funny Star Wars quote, really, but again I must ask...

WHY IS THIS A PROBLEM IF YOU HAVE A LEGAL COPY?

I truly do want a legitimate answer that answers the question and doesn't dodge it.

For those who read my comments often in these forums: (Side story, Sony vs. Microsoft "copy protection": Folks may notice or believe I have a double standard when it comes to copy protection. I don't. Sony's DRM has 'screwed up' playback ability on dozens of PCs with legal music from what I hear in forums and witness abroad. Microsoft's Genuine Advantage has not ever incorrectly asserted that a customer's Windows/Office copy was illegal in my experience. Now it is true I have seen some complaints in forums, but without one specific real world example that I can verify is and was legal but MS screwed up? There's the difference.)

"Microsoft's Genuine Advantage has not ever incorrectly asserted that a customer's Windows/Office copy was legal in my experience"

Perhaps you mean illegal?

DOH :\

Yep, edited...

Because sometimes, as has been shown with XP, activation of legal copies is sometimes a pain. This includes legal internet activation. I know; I've had to go through the hassle of the 10 minute call to activate. While that's not really a big deal, if you had a 500 person org, you might be annoyed.

Because it doesn't actually work. I have a legal copy of XP Home and I just had to call MS because it told me to re-active and then said I had used up all of my activations. All I had done was install a virtual CD PROGRAM and rebooted. That's software, not hardware.

Pirates can bypass all of this nonsense with ease. In fact anyone with a minimum of experience, on the net, and access to Google could find a way to bypass it.

" I have a legal copy of XP Home "

I can't believe I missed this before! Sir, you have a trojan downloader. The one that wants you to register with "Microsoft" that is actually sending your personal data to the trojan's author. XP Home _DOES _NOT _REQUIRE _ACTIVATION. Only XP Pro requires that, sir.

XP Home uses WGA, but the two are completely separate from each other. Don't believe me? Look here: http://www.microsoft.com...Backdoor:Win32/IRCbot.R

The reason MS has this stuff is not to catch the actual thieves that use the PC's with illegal licenses--it is so the legitimate users who were sold the PC from someone who claimed it was legal will tell Microsoft of the problem and catch the company or people who sold the PC illegally.

The professional thieves usually do mass-piracy of XP copies to sell thousands of copies to make money. You think Microsoft is going to write WGA just to catch the few hundred individuals who use an illegal copy on their home PC? No, they are doing this to catch the big boys who sell thousands of non-legitimate licenses.

Geek Squad, for example, suddenly has to clean up it's "reinstall" act now (oops--did I say that out loud?)

By the way, you also said: " All I had done was install a virtual CD PROGRAM and rebooted. That's software, not hardware."

Yes, and whom may I ask wrote this program? If it's not Microsoft, then whose fault is it???

Reinstall Windows using the original product key and I betchya it'll work when you register :)

Well I find the whole WGA and OGA thing insulting. I paid for their software and am tired of being treated like a criminal for my trouble.

I don't have to worry about activation anymore. I found a way around it without using an illegal copy.

How?

Search Google and find out.

It asked me to and I called Microsoft. I don't use the automated part. Plus I don't keep personal information on my computer.

XP Home SP2 ASKED me for activation when I first got it out of the shrinked wrapped packet when I bought it passed WGA when it first came out.

It also passed all of the other fake tests as well. It passes validation as well. I didn't get it from some guy off the street.

BTW, its XP Pro CORP. that doesn't require activation.

"XP Home _DOES _NOT _REQUIRE _ACTIVATION."

I have 3 copies of XP Home, they all require activation when Windows starts up, all legit, all purchased with computers.

Thanks.

What? You don't even have a link that shows how you supposedly got around the MS Office product activation?

"Sometimes a pain?" more like...always a pain.

A "500 person org" would be using a Corporate addition of XP. This requires no activation, - Volume License Edition.

See...there's the problem.

They don't treat you like a criminal until you're copy is not found to be legit. ;)

You get to use your legal copy and update it, and so on....

The non-legit copies do not.

See?

non-criminal - gets to update.

criminal - does not.

You are being treated like a non-crminal.

All WGA and OGA does is verify your non-criminal status.

How the hell else is MS going to verify the only folks getting updates are the non-criminals?

ok then if I've already been proven innocent why the heck to I have to keep proving it every time I make a hardware change or do a re installation? If it was legit the first time it's not going to be illegal the next time. Guess I'm guilty until proven innocent ..... over and over again.

Read my post above.

The hackers have gotten around Activation. You're "legit the first time" has been hacked.

There's no real way for them to verify authenticity with just one check. That one check will be hacked.

I don't like it, but I understand it.

Well I don't like it either and I'm done jumping through hoops for Microsoft. The alternatives work fine for me so I believe I'll take that route.

My interpretation:

OpenOffice Now Mandatory

Right move. It will make OpenOffice more popular, which enjoys me much.

i bought a pc in 2001 ..it came w/ winblows millenium!! ...gateway/microsoft charged me $200 for a "upgrade CD" for xp home!!

that's when i decided to become a "thief" after i was screwed when xp came out less than 1 month after i bought my POS OS!!

The Release of XP was one of the biggest events Microsoft has ever staged. If you purchased a PC one month prior to XP and you were unaware that XP was coming out you are really clueless.

Just so you don't make a similar error today. Vista is slated for RTM in a week or so and will be released early next year.

Slipstream it...Scooter; retrieve the downloads/updates manually or whatever.

I would also say you are dumb for actually PAYING $200 for an UPGRADE copy of xp home. You can get it for $99 elsewhere.