IMO, it appears that WMP and Messenger are offering what some call 'bloatware' but what the avg consumer user (which MS is smartly targeting) calls a lot of damn, extra features. Please note only the uber-cool, l33t users use the term bloatware 99.99999 percent of the time, because they are 'knowledgeable' (snicker) enough to not use the other features.

Personally, I say, keep adding more features, fine with us avg joes out there. If I don't need that feature, I simply won't use it, but I appreciate the face that if I ever want to, I have that option. Plus, you can't beat the price... $0.00 US. Even in Canada. :-D

I think you may be missing the point some people are trying to make. The fact that so many features are being packed into the program makes it somewhat difficult for the "average joe" to use the product. Perhaps you are an independently wealthy person, but most people can't afford an 18-month upgrade cycle on their computers.

Regardless of whether you use the new features or not does not detract from the fact that they are there and loaded into the program when it starts up. Whether you like it or not, they're loaded (in most cases), even if you never make use of it. So to claim that you can simply not use them is ignorant. Your option is to stop using that specific product completely.

And I didn't even need to put a "snicker" in there.

Were can I download IM 6?

you can get it from
http://www.ezcom.orcon.net.nz/

sorry - I was too busy laughing at your first post to notice you second...

Media Player 6 loads in just over 1 second on my P4 2ghz 512mb ram machine. Media Player 9 takes around 8 seconds. Not too long to wait you'd say, and I'd agree. But run a few other apps alongside and watch the time multiply. Media Player 6 takes around 5 seconds - Media Player 9 takes over 15 seconds sometimes. And don't even start me about the memory usage!! I'll bow to you comment of cosmetics though - yeah, WMP9 looks sweet but if I wanna play a quick movie that someone sent me, I don't wanna wait - especially on my 2 GIG (!!!) machine.

Anyway, this is now offtopic so keep the flames down...

It takes about 3 seconds to load up WMP9 on my Athlon 900, I'd suggest something is wrong with your setup.

And that's with over 20gb of info in the Media Library.

There's obviously something up with your computer! Media Player 9 loads instantly on my computer - literally no delay at all

To be fair, what theme are you using in 9? If you switch to the classic them without any of the bells and whistles I think you will find that the startup time is nearly the same.

What the hell are you talking about? 8 seconds is not normal load time. WMP9 loads instantly on my comp and even on lower end comps.

have you ever used linux? now there's real programming. when DOS was around you worked at making your apps and games as memory and CPU efficient as possible and the result were apps that ran on the majority of systems. Since Microsoft came along with Windows (aka bloatware) and started creating these hulking great big apps, we've all been upgrading like crazy. Have you any idea of the raw processing power of a 2ghz 512mb ram machine? Under linux that is a beast!! Why then, under Windows, do I see apps grinding to a halt? Inefficient coding and bloatware. The argument to upgrade must always be balanced against the need for something - it's a basic and fundamental principle. Not, and I repeat not, some elite attitute to have the most powerful PC. So get over yourself you jumped up little 13 year old.

On my Athlon 900, I rearely see any problems (been using the same install since I got my copy of XP from MS, a little before the launch). Once in awhile it will get to the point where the system is running slowly, in which case I merely run the system file checker and defrag, and I'm good to go.

So it's strange that microsoft is already giving a date whithout any betatest while the just started betatesting Windows Messenger 5.

Maybe cause that last one is more corporated but no leaks. Strange, isn't it ?

First of all I question your announcement that 90% of people use WindowsXP or Windows Server 2003. Secondly, if I were you I would learn to accept other people's opinions. There is a case that MSN Messenger is becoming bloated. I am lucky as may main machine is an iMac, so I am still using MSN 3.5, which is very nice and very simple. If, however, I was forced to update to MSN 6 (which due to possible changes in the MSN protocol, may be the case) I would be very concerned about the about of features in the programme that were consuming system resources but were never going to be used.

Hopefully Microsoft will continue it's push towards creating modular software, as reportedly included in Windows Longhorn.

ALSO Please DO NOT and i repeat DO NOT ever compare MSN to ICQ ICQ is a giant hunk of cr*p that the install weighs about as much as i have to excrete from my body right now. It takes forever to load and yes i have tried icqlite.. what can i say "wooohooo" NOT it took them what 10 versions to discover that clients didnt want to have there userlists stored on there computer. MSN is faster it works when all else wont. When my network has problems cause i work at the isp i mean even when were suffering from hellacious packetloss we are still able to communicate while icq and aim refuse to connect. I'm sorry im just sick of seeing every MS topic get bashed by a few ignorant people ITS A BACKGROUND IMAGE and some plugins that are loaded dynamically so if you don't know how programming or dynamic memory calls work then don't call it bloatware i know several people that perfer new Mediaplayer over the old one do me a favor go back to mplayer2 and use that instead of the new one, its like a alpha 1 version of something thats aspiring to be better wmplayer is something that looks well rounded and has features out of its azz.

I think it look's wicked, havent you noticed it's always the people with shi**y computers that complain about nice interfaces personally i love the new look and msn8.5's beta, they make you pay for msn because its made to be an alternative to AOL for AOL cut overs so they don't want any old person just able to use it. It would remove the necessity for people wanting MSN you know that strange force that actually drives people to want AOL too. Games in MSN i love it, now stop dissing microsoft products as i know all of you do and get back to doing something useful in windows 2k3 or xp cause i know thats what 90% of everyone is using i work for an ISP and do installs daily i have done 3 mac's os X's in the last 2 months and over 300-500 XP machines so stop b****ing and be happy equipments cheap microsoft is helping us out by working with manufaturers on that so go buy some more ram or cpu speed if u're old 133 is complaining.

While my computer isnt blazingly fast, its not a slug by any stretch, P4 1.7Gh 512 megs ram, etc, etc.

Yeah, I could run MSN-bloat quite fast/effectivly, but thats not the point, I dont want features tossed at me that I'll never use.

But true, there are things like jabber/etc out there to take place of MSN client if need-be.

But, I'd much rather have a 'basic' client, then optional plugin downloads for the bloatware so I can leave them out if I want.

Looks like Messenger is suffering from Media Player syndrome. Everyone remember the hoo-hah when Microsoft bloated that bad boy? But they stuck by the bloated version and everyone bought more powerful PCs...when does the bloat-madness end? When we've all got nitrogen cooled desktop supercomputers? Come on Microsoft, give you users a choice - bloat or no bloat.

One of the reasons why I have changed to / stuck with MSN and ditched ICQ, was because it was clean/simple/small/efficent for what I needed to do - chat with friends and send the odd file (usualy used FTPs for that anyways). About the only downfall/complaint I have about MSN is the inability to store offline messages.

But bleh, built in games? more video support? yeck .. no thanks. Much rather have a basic lite client then all the added bloat, its what made ICQ worthless for me.

You should look into ICQlite.

Or better, Jabber!
www.jabber.org

It supports all 4 major IM systems, it's free, xml based and open source.

Try out this product...it is an addin to messenger and saves all your conversations to text files. It is free too!!

http://www.msgplus.net/index.php?view=download

Of course, we're all gonna have to wait till Plus! supports MSN6 cuz without it it's nothing ;)

look like yahoo on a mac!!!

will there be a stand-along version we won't have to pay for cause I know you have to pay for the new versions of the msn browser which I am quite mad about

nah, it's way uglier than a mac program...

Yahoo on a mac?
Ugly ?

May be the two of you should get your eyes checked?

Funny how "people" trash talk about Microsoft while using the products with a Microsoft label on them. And please, don't come back and yap about how they copied the Mac and all kinds of other vendors and such.

Copycats or Innovators, they are here to stay and get used to it.

MSN Messenger will stay free, as Microsoft uses it to market its other products. Plus, there is too much competition from other free services like Yahoo! Messenger and AIM to risk losing the market share.

i personally use a mac, thank you very much.

So why are you commenting on this future release? That is unless you actually use it, in which case my previous post about people trashing Microsoft while using a Microsoft product, still applies. No one's begging you to use it.

There is no such thing as "perfect error free software"

How about Microsoft making a game like .hack /SIGN ?

-OR-
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-OR-
how about the .hack /SIGN people ports those ps2 .hack /SIGN games to the pc? and make them better with the 3d by using ati technogle or something like that

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