The only use of 1394 that is of a substantial note, is the machine vision industry. Using high-speed firewire connections for automated machines and industrial equipment's vision systems.

Anybody doing audio/video processing on any low-end notebook, needs to learn about computers before they worry about a missing port. Maybe we should bring back floppy disks and tape drives as well. Heck, how about a joystick port? Parallel ports too?

Face it The MacBook is the LOW END entry machine for Apple. It offers essentially no expandability and is designed for limited utility computing as is typical of the $700-800 Windows laptops available.

Anyone still confused by this?

And if you are doing audio processing, that is not a sufficient or adequate platform. So move on and look at a model that is.

http://www.newegg.com/St...ame=Laptop-Add-on-Cards

this may help i guess

Apple Laptops do not have a PC card port...at least mine does not. So sadly this is not an option for those folks wanting to purchase a lower priced macbook.

The MacBook Pro has an ExpressCard slot...assuming that your reference to a PC card port correlates to either the older PCMCIA slot or the newer ExpressCard slot.

get a converter i say. who knows it may just work. just kidding you fellow Mac lovers

I think someone is missing some parts...

"The outrage, then, isn't entirely for FireWire's absence from one laptop -- though habitual buyers of low-end MacBooks (eg. schools)"

My guess is that this pc was made with the same ideas then the "Magalhães" pc. Cheap and for starters.

So my other guess is that this pc isn't for work at all.
Still i have to say firewire is a lot better then USB2 since you can actually get more speed from it (around 10 to 15 MB/s).
So i don't get the idea of removing this old but very fast technology and put "students" 100% dependent on newer but slower tech.

Lets see what USB3 will bring us :)

And yes, i am 100% PC user and this was my 5 cent thought.

This all just seems very typical of Apple and of Steve Jobs. Nothing new here - different day, same old story.

But for those of you who are comparing this to the removal of serial and parallel ports on non-Apple compuiters, there is a very big difference.

By the time most non-Apple desktop and laptop machines had serial and parallel ports removed, USB had already been out for a long time, and the vast majority of new peripherals had already moved to USB, so there really was no big loss.

Remember - the same thing happened when everybody was using an AT keyboard, and PS/2 along came... And then PS/2 died out and was replaced by USB.

The difference with this situation is that most consumer-level FireWire devices (external hard drives, video cameras etc.) also support USB, so removing FireWire as an option doesn't mean the device ends up in the bin.

Oh, and to the complete genius (note: sarcasm) that posted this:

"Oh, and if you think FW is a crisis, then please tell us about the PC dropping the Parallel and serial ports from Laptops?

The implications which literally dwarf the FW issue!

As that world is dominated by Windows, who do you want to blame there?"

As I mentioned - the implications were minimal at best, and have long been forgotten.

And you think Windows is to blame for their demise? What are you smoking?!?

Windows STILL SUPPORTS SERIAL AND PARALLEL PORTS if you have them. It's completely up to the DEVICE MANUFACTURERS whether or not they choose to include them.

What's typical are the idiot fanboys on this site!

Not 2 weeks ago we had the fanboys lined up to attack Firewire as being inconsequential compared to USB.

And now the same idiots whine that Apple consolidates on USB for its low end laptop.

As usual, the same idiots argue both ends against the middle, and they are so stupid as tho think that its Aple who is the fool!

Not to mention that while the MacBook Pro is popular for portable use, the workhorse of the DAW market is the dual quad-core Xeon MacPro!

And OSX still supports FW. So I love how you argue both ends of that debate with your parallel and serial port example.

But go ahead and whine that Firewire is being dropped from the weeny MacBook.

Like it has the resources to adequately support high end resource intensive multichannel audio and video processing anyway...

So who here that is complaining is actually familiar with the high end audio and video processing process?

Obviously not many.

looks like i'm not upgrading my current macbook pro for a while... i use so many firewire 400 periferals... hard drives... sound boxes... cameras... not gonna happen apple...

Actually the MBP does still have Firewire, so no problem there.

Aw... aren't you sweet, offering to pay the price difference between a MB and a MBP for all who need a firewire port. ;-)

So I guess you condoning Steve Jobs' "Let them eat cake." philosophy. Apple stock holder perchance? hehe jk

No dimwit, you upgrade for the overall additional features, not just Firewire.

So you run ProTools on a MacBook? Really?

But then idiots like you probably try to tow a 27 foot boat with your Toyota Corolla.

Apple sucks so does gay Steve jobs!!

I'm gay, please dont insult my group by saying Steve Jobs is too. Thank you.

"Your group"

Sorry?

Yeah right - had to co-op and bast@rdize an existing word rather than use the proper term?

Of course the lesbians are also so in touch with their sexuality unlike the cretan breeders that we are subjected to the gays and lesbians - as if homosexual is insufficient to include both - as evidently gay is not.

Yup, you folks have your own issues that you might want to work out.

Not to mention a social desease that would be eliminated if folks simply had the maturity and self-dicipline to keep it in your pants. Issue all but moot. But yup, blame the spread on the attirudes of the breeders!

You don't get to pick and choose what qualities you inherit when you claim a label! You own it all.

He's having a gay old time? And what's your source that he's a homosexual?

If Steve Jobs says Firewire isn't necessary then it's end of discussion. There's no need to whine and cry about it. Has Apple ever let us down? Has Steve Jobs ever led us astray? Doesn't the Mac continue to evolve leaps and bounds ever year ahead of the Pissy?

If Steve Jobs says we can live without it then we should trust this wise and great man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farce

Yea, um, leaps and bounds.. Isnt Apple using x86 chipsets now? Wow....

One thing PC users can do that Mac users cannot:

http://www.thebestpagein...e.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant

One other thing PC users can do that Mac users cannot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DBuk91phkI

As well as CPUs :D

Absolutely Jobs has been wrong!

Witness the foirst time he was toosed out when he refues to open an include expansion slots in what became the Mac2 line. Oops!

And he has tied OSX to his limited line of boat anchors (with the exception of the dual quad core XEON MacPro) that fail to address the commodity end of the market, and also fail to address the higher powered desktop replacement/workstation niche represented by , among others in the market, the Lenovo W700 - which with the quad core processor, Wacom tablet mouse and Pantone calibration and Quattro graphics cards, just for a start, eats the MacBook Pros lunch.

Are we JUST discovering that the Mac is simply a PC that is compliant with teh latest Intel Roadmap?

Boy, we can't put anything over on you, can we?

It's the environmental aspect where the point's been well made above that really gets me. Talk about a slap in the face to your own customers. [tsk]

Hmmm, the USB standard was basically authored by Intel and a few others if I remember correctly. Now that Apple is in bed with Intel, so to speak, I wonder if that has something to do with the sudden about face with Firewire. Intel has been wanting Firewire to go away for years.

I don't think so, as evidenced by so many of the better PC MoBos including FW on them as well. Most may not be aware of it or use it, but its more often than not there. FW is not as rare as many seem to believe it to be, nor is it an 'Apple only' feature.

I think we are simply running into an issue of how many overlapping interfaces we choose to use and where can costs be cut.

FW does offer some real advantages over USB, but considering how ubiquitous USB has become, I think that is why it is losing out. (A shame really, as given a choice of just one, FW offers the same functionality with greater real world performance.)

But still, the question comes down to just what space constraints do you have, as the few bucks it actually costs the manufacturer to include it is almost negligible in the larger scheme of things. If it were something larger and more expensive I could see the rationale for jettisoning it on the low end, but this is neither large nore expensive...

While I don't see it as a crisis, I don't see why it warranted being dropped either in light of its past use. But then, for most 'low end' applications, USB is going to be the more commmonly used interface.

Oh well...

"If Apple were truly concerned about their environmental impact, they would: a. provide solutions to keep legacy products useful, and b. when possible, provide viable upgrade paths for computers and peripherals (and their constituent components) that they've already sold.""

He makes a good point.

"ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT.

http://www.newegg.com/Pr...on=expresscard+firewire

A four port Expresscard FW400 card is available for as cheaply as $25! And that one query on NewEgg returned 25 adapters!"

Great. An extra 2" of width just because Apple wouldn't sacrifice 2cm of space next to the super-drive.

It's unnecessary of Apple to drop it. A lot of customers ARE sound engineers as it is the best OS to use for it.

It's still making people buy an extra bit of kit which is defeating the purpose of it being environmentally friendly (though thinking about this deeper it's still more environmental than before as it uses one less connector on the laptop for everyone, and only some will want the FireWire port).

Spending £1000 on a laptop and it can't even serve the purpose that it's the best at (audio recording) is ****ing useless. Obviously you're going to suggest go to the MacBook Pro, but why should people have to? "It's only an extra £300" is a s*** reason.

Ironically, I agree that dropping what must cost $3 to manufacture was stupid.

I tend to side with the extra value added features being a good and desireable thing.

But like the parallel and serial ports that have also disappeared to the chagrin of many who simply have devices dependent upon them, and more importantly to many who have used their machines for data acquisition (for which a change in interface did NOT necessarily result in an improvement in performance), times are changing and things seem to inevitably be moving to a lowest common denominator commodity model. We could easily say they should not have been dropped either in order to protect fully functional legacy investments.

But the bottom line is that we can pick any price point on almost any system and say why can't they add this or that feature or near the same price. I guess (assuming that there is a method to the madness) that they are just looking at where they perceive the largest market use to be. I guess...despite the fact that their vision and mine do not jive.

I'm not a fan of the changes myself. And they miss the boat in not offering a true high end desktop/workstation replacement as well as missing the critical budget market with a sub $1K machine to compete with the $700-$800 Samsung, HP and Dell, etc.

Heck, I wish they would simply enlarge the Mac mini case by 3 inches, long enough to accomodate a video card, add a video slot, and add another DIMM socket and sell it for $50 more than it does now for the entry market at $650.

But hey, despite all of the electronic answering gadgets I have, no one called to ask.

Apple has a fine OS. And they have the capability to produce and compete in all segments of the HW markets on the basis of the HW alone (and not simply its ability to run OSX.)

I just wish they would do it. But rather than 'the computer for the rest of us' that it once was, ol Steve has turned it into the computer for the 'beautiful people'.

How about it Steve? You have a fine OS, and you have the capability to make good elegantly designed hardware. How about actually letting them compete in each market on their own merits?

(BTW, the MacBook is ~$1000USD, Not 1000 Pounds! A not insignificant difference in price! ;-)

Why in the world would a sound engineer use a low end macbook for audio encoding/editing?

Mac users are simply b****ing about what windows users have known for a decade about the mac platform: you are Steve Job's b****: forever.

Not all sound engineers are professionals. There's a lot that do it as a hobby on a budget you know.

The 'low end' MacBook isn't all that low end.

I agree, except the MacBook is £949 for the lowest price new model (not the plastic one that still has FireWire).

If the system doesn't have a feature that you desire, then go for one that does. No big deal. There are surely plenty laptops out there that don't have what you are looking for. Manufacturers offer models with varying configurations for different target buyers. Obviously they are not targeting video editors with this model.

People should really stop stressing over every little move Apple makes. It's rare that they generate any major advancements. Most of the time, it's just spec updates and system refinements.

I'm more upset about the lack of an ExpressCard or PCCard slot on the new MacBook. That's just a kick in the teeth.

I haven't used either of those in 4 years, myself. I never once used a firewire port.

I agree, who cares if they dropped the Firewire. Another article I read talked about some a** who had a $4,000 sony HD vid camera, and was complaining he couldn't plug it into his new sub 1000 macbook. I was like your JO if you don't buy a better computer then a lowend macbook. I have a macbook pro and I do use my Firewire 800 port plenty, but I do not use my expresscard ever, and my old HP laptop I never used my PCIMIA card slot ever either.

Lesson, don't buy low end and expect higher end component. Firewire is not used for much more then CONSTANT DATA RATES, AKA STREAMING. Best suited for Video Recording at point of shooting, and same for Audio. Where USB only provides BURST DATA RATES. Not constant data rates. Like Streaming from your motorola cable box to your macbook via apple dev tools and a firewire 800 or 400 cable works great.

Yea, well it is sort of nice is cheaper systems since cheaper systems have lower end processors. One of the short falls of USB is CPU overhead... So, in a cheap system I could see where one might want Firewire for an external drive instead of USB 2.0. However, that being said, everything I own is USB..

lol@blissfully ignorant PC users..

foxfire is correct.

"A port, on the other hand, is tougher to integrate, though discussions of the FireWire situation inevitably turn to such workarounds. And Apple has been the main champion of FireWire since its launch; annoyed users can't simply turn to other platforms to get their ports back."

ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT.

http://www.newegg.com/Pr...on=expresscard+firewire

A four port Expresscard FW400 card is available for as cheaply as $25! And that one query on NewEgg returned 25 adapters!

"...it's the writing on the wall for users who have invested serious money for specialty audio gear such as the newly introduced, Mac-only Apogee Duet -- or for independent creative types already managing on shoestring budgets."

LOL! Yeah, those investing in an Avid DAW or ProTools are working on shoestring budgets! Heaven forbid if anyone here ever discovers what they can spend for a single microphone!

"But what does it mean?"

Very little, except that lots of clueless folks like to yell and scream who are clueless as to easily accomodated alternative solutions.

The fact is, as USB becomes more ubiquitous, the average user doesn't need the advantages that FW offers over USB (and it DOES!) for the more common and mundane uses. And for those who need FW, for whatever reason, the machines are available with it built in, or an easily added adapter will adddress the issue.
Yup, the sky is falling, the sky is falling! LOL!

A crisis? Sure? If one has no idea as to what they are talking about.

Foxfyre, do me a favor? I'm going to focus on the next article on my schedule, and you can field the text messages I'm getting from my indie-music-producer friends about FireWire's fate -- and about hardware budgets on the cusp of recession. Just because a guy has to drop $15K on a microphone now and then doesn't mean he's made of money. Pretty much dead opposite, alas.

Dear, the fact is, the laptop is the LEAST expensive piece of gear they use!

I'm sorry a $25 adapter is simply too complex and expensive a proposition for them to deal with.

And send the questions my way! I have far too many years working with the industry!

And tell them if they need any acoustical analysis or studio design work done, we have the TEF, EASERA and EASE and CATT-A environments to easily accomodate them.

I think it's funny how Steve Job's could care less about losing customers in his email reply. Arrogant prick.

The authenticity of the email has it been proven it was actually steve jobs. Cause I doubt it actually is. Google Anonymous email sender. Sure you can find some to make it look like it came from any email address you wanted it too.

I agree with Adrian, except I want USB 3.0

USB 3 would be nice.

Legacy? Backwards compatibility? These are not Apple's concerns.

For Apple to care about these things there would have to be a complete corporate philosophy transplant. In other words they would actually have to start caring about their customers.

Highly unlikely with Jobs at the helm.

As mentioned below, you largely miss the point. But its cute how you try to treat the larger vertical markets as if they are MS wackos still running 3.1.

And its cute to see so many think that Firewire is so rare in the PC realm. But then they are obvioulsy using the absolute cheapest MoBo they can find, as FW is actually quite common, even if you don't use it!

The fact is that the interface is VERY common in the Pro Audio and graphics world where higher bandwidth interconnect are common. But then you rarely find a Windows box there.

And while it surprises me that Apple chose to cut such a small and generally easily accomodated interface out of the low end units, FW800 is still available on the MacBookPro and via ExpressCard adapters. And easy fix if someone has an investment in, or a need for, the capabilities of the interface.

Oh, and if you think FW is a crisis, then please tell us about the PC dropping the Parallel and serial ports from Laptops?

The implications which literally dwarf the FW issue!

As that world is dominated by Windows, who do you want to blame there?

Yup, ol Steve is an arrogant control freak. But you can't blame everything on him!

The difference here is that Parallel and Serial ports were worse at their job than their replacement.

Thats not the correct if you look at devices other than printers and scanners.

The point is that replacing the systems that use them simply to change the interface connector can easily cost upwards of $5K for many of the devices...for the same functionality.

A bit steep simply to convert for simply a connector. And the cheap parallel to USB adapters don't do it as they are not full implimentations of the parallel bus - they are simply printer adapters.

Again, I agree. I don't have any data on when Apple dropped them from their laptops (or even if they ever had any) but I hazard a guess that they were the first and "ahead of the game" by a year or more. It's not necessarily the best place to be.

Foxy,
You may well be right, what the %*&$'s firewire, I know it's there on all my notebooks, and a few external drives & a NAS, but being a dummy have no idea what it is.
As an aside, no doubt Jobs is gay, but dudes you must admit there's a good chance his lover is StevieB, their combined arrogance is indeed the magical stuff Disney movies are made of. A lust created in the ether, two like minds in "Parallel"!

What do you mean "the way of the 8 track tape"?? Are 8 tracks obsolete? When did this happen?!? Next thing you're going to tell me is that all my 45 and LP records are worthless too!!

Don't look at me, kprovance -- I'm a 78 collector with a nasty Victrola habit. I don't worry half as much about FireWire going away as I do the bamboo-needle shortage.

umm i have never used a firewire port.. i'm good with usb2.0, also.. whats a mac? lol

Exactly...FireWhat?

So a tiny % of the owners a computer Mfg. whose market share is a tiny % of the global computer sales are upset because they fear change to something that everyone else has embraced already (on ONE model of their mfg of choice linup.)

This is news why?

These must be the same people that are trying to stop the DTV conversion from happening. :)

And the ignorance is bliss crowd just waddles along oblivious...

Yes, while you may think that USB2 is the cat's meow - the ProAudio market is dominated by Avid/DigiDesign ProTools and others that have been, and continue to use FireWire - as its REAL world performance blows away USB2 which barely performs at 1/2 of its rated maximum throughput.

But then for the PC desktop crowd, it is apparent that many are not familiar with many of the other higher bandwidth uses other than for mice, keyboards, printers and hard drives.

And the Mac has, and continues, to dominate that market.

And I love the suggestion that this has something to do with the transition to DTV! Can we say "clueless"?

But, clueless PC fanboys aside, as far as the whining - Firewire 800 is still included in the MacBook Pro. And since Steve Jobs can do no wrong (yeah, right!), the faithful should simply be prepared to get the MacBook Pro - either that or an ExpressCard Firewire800 adapter!

"Yes, while you may think that USB2 is the cat's meow - the ProAudio market is dominated by Avid/DigiDesign ProTools and others that have been, and continue to use FireWire - as its REAL world performance blows away USB2 which barely performs at 1/2 of its rated maximum throughput."

Unfortunately, you are correct about that.

Very well said. I hate when people comment on stuff nearly to bash, and they are ignorant to it.

Apple probably sees the MacBook as a "low end mac" not a high end and so it's taking the high end features off so they can drop its price more. If you want to do high end graphics, video and audio go buy the stuff.