This just grinds my gears. I have read some of these comments and man it just.....get me so upset. Microsoft started out back when softwares we nothing. They were able to write the codes to use the first intel processor, no one else did. No one has to buy their software, you go out there, spend your money, you buy, and you use. No one forced your hand. Now as for the EU, the same goes for them. What do they expect, that a company that's way across the globe supposed to know their laws and regulations. They want microsoft to make a version of Windows just for them. Who do they think they are, special? If I was Gates, I would just pay them, and when Vista comes out just keep it within the US and noe-EU countries. Let those rivals make a software for them. If they say monopoly, then make a better or equal software and just be quiet. They are just mad because they have idots working for them. I have tried other OSs and I will always stick with Windows. Business is business, Japan automakers make car just like everywhere else, even electronics. They weren't the first, but they take the basics and make it better. I don't see Ford sueing everyone else for using his deisgn...is that because he is dead? If these rivals want a piece of the market then take it. It's a free for all market, if you make a good product then consumers will decide. Automobiles are a good example. Most Americans don't even drive american cars, that drive Japs, Germ, and everything else.
Just my 2-cents here.

You don't have to be a computer programmer to understand the difference between writing a good program and breaking someone else's programs.

No wants Microsoft to stop writing great software, but they cannot be allowed to use their mononopy to hurt other software developers.

That means they shouldn't force manufacturers to bundle Microsoft applications with Windows. And they shouldn't create secrets for no reason other than a competitive advantage.

But Microsoft has done these things. They have intentionally injured their competitors in order to limit your choices.

Good software, but evil behavior.

M$ is not evil, they have a very good product that is why they are in the state of monopoly.
Their competition has had their share of publicity but exactly how many people are using Linux or OO.org ???.

i have tried many distros still i am on windows.

rather than accusing other,real should improve their player(which i think is not even worth downloading) and they should stop making stupid mistakes (ipod compatibility issue).

i think microsoft's rivals should be forced to create their own os or quit whining under a 2 million euro a day penalty

When someone blows themselves up you don't have to ask what was their religion.

When someone defends Microsoft you don't have to ask who signs their paycheck.

When someone makes ignorant, baseless accusations you don't have to ask their IQ level.

When someone makes a hilariously valid comparison you don't have to laugh.

...but man that cracks me up (LOL)

You, sir, are an idiot.

Oh pooor Microsoft! The only reason they are throwing a tantrum is becuase someone told them BOO! It's not like selling a version of Windows without Media Player is difficult, after all they either aquired the technology by hostile takeover and just plain stole the rest of it. Typical Microsoft. What is really bothering them, is that if they divulge the protocols to the EU, it would become very obvious just how devious Microsoft is and why their are such rampant security "flaws" in Microsofts software....intentional backdoors that Microsoft and its "Customers" can exploit! There is a reason every serious server of any important/critical nature uses Sun, IBM, UNIX, etc. and never uses Windows....unless you want Microsoft & Co. to have Windows into your data that is! Now if the EU will just follow threw, and stick it to em good!

Allow me to be the first to offer you a tin foil hat.

They've already licensed the protocols.

The EU doesn't think they did it right.

If there was anything in their to cause woe to MS, it would have done so long ago.

Rational thought having trouble getting through all the FUD static in your head?

MS deserves total liquidation for all they have done to hold back innovation and gobble up any good technology and never release it unless it suits them. Microsoft code is secret becuase most of it is stolen and they spend most of their time covering this up. But the bulk of their budget is their legal department...who are the only reason Microsoft is around today. If it were not for them, we would be over a decade ahead of where we are now....but that's not profitable to MS so we aren't.

Let me translate the above:

rantrantrant...

unfounded accusation...

tiraderantrant...

That's pretty much it, folks.

Dude, wake up. Reality really isn't all that bad. Put the pipe down, go outside, maybe read a newspaper.

MS deserves total liquidation for all they have done to hold back innovation and gobble up any good technology and never release it unless it suits them. Microsoft code is secret becuase most of it is stolen and they spend most of their time covering this up. But the bulk of their budget is their legal department...who are the only reason Microsoft is around today. If it were not for them, we would be over a decade ahead of where we are now....but that's not profitable to MS so we aren't.

Its about time that somebody took on MS, they are monopolizing a whole industry and that is a very, very bad thing for customers, both in the US or the EU.

In fact, I feel that they should be told to release ALL their APIs and protocols free of any license whatsoever. It is the only way to make sure they will not abuse their monopolies and it would certainly create a healthy climate for competition.

These portions of technology should be seen more as ways of communication than as proprietary technologies, because they affect the ways programs interact with each other. Although programs are not humans and protocols are not communication between living beings themselves, its humans who get to use the software and who eventually are the victims of the imposed restrictions of the software vendor. Suppose for a minute spoken languages were being patented? Suppose you had to pay a license fee to MicroLanguage to talk modern English? No sane person would accept such an outrage. Yet we accept the same thing in computers everyday, without even questioning it.

Because law has been slow to adopt the evolutions in computer history, mainly because its massive, and massive entities are bound to react comparatively slow, especially in comparison to such a fast moving target as the computer industry, the computer industry was able to impose way too restricting terms of usage for end users. You can't blame them ofcourse, being corporations, they're bound to make a buck whenever possible and impose those rules that are most beneficial to themselves to the end user, but I think its about time that governments are starting to take notice how much it affects and restricts their citizens and start to restrict the power these corporations have over their users, and submit the whole idea to a sanity check, because this is starting to affect way too many individuals lives in a negative way.

In the end, thats what law is for. To protect the rights of every individual in a society, even the small consumer whose voice is weak compared to the big cash and lawyer artillery of the big corporations.

There is nothing that the EU (the Fourth Reich) could do that would surprise me. It is obvious that the EU will stop at nothing to destroy anything American that is a success and replace it with products from those who will line their pockets the most. They have no concerns about the citizens of Europe. They only want to insure their own privileged positions.

Name me one monopoly who has been beneficial for the consumer EVER. Let me say "HA!" before you say Microsoft. Just check the prices of Windows and Office licenses. Have they come down because volumes went up? No.

Who is to say that prices should fall? Ever heard of supply and demand? And when was the last time that someone held a gun to your head to purchase a product from the "Big Bad Wolf"?

How about every utility company, and the pre-deregulation Telco’s in the United States?

Without being a Monopoly they wouldn't be able to justify the infrastructure construction costs that bring you the power and connectivity to run the pc you’re typing your message on.

"Just check the prices of Windows and Office licenses. Have they come down because volumes went up? No."

I just dont' get it...why would prices go down when volume goes up? Especially for software? I mean...when something is in high demand, you can charge more...not less...you lower price to increase demand. Econ 101, you'll have that class soon.

I don't think they run out of bits and bytes so "supply and demand" doesn't apply for software companies. Or there has to be a large shortage of cd's/dvd's.

Check out Software Assurance - If you plan on sticking with Office or any Microsoft products for the long term, it's a significant savings. So they are doing things to help the consumer. In turn, it gets you to stay with them, but everyone does that - it's good business.

Ever heard of the brothers Hunt, Pennzoil, Placid and cornering the Argenta market? Well MS has cornered the market and made it their business to obstruct other companies to develop bolt-ons to their OS....ever heard of the published OS-hooks (slower), and the hidden hooks only known to MS (faster). Just look at their latest piece, WinDefender. It digs itself so deep into the OS, that uninstalling has proven inpossible....if any 3rd party would try to go that deep, they, MS, would simply device a way to overwrite or change some hooks or calls....so first things first....the OS and Application manufacturing must be split thoroughly so that it becomes an even playing field...its not. Demand/Supply argument....the global clientele has allowed for this monopolist to arrive, now its time to split the monopolist same as the US Tel Bell's.

The software is not what costs money. It's the LICENSE (that little Microsoft Certificate of Authenticity sticker with the product key on it). "Supply and Demand" most certainly applies.

As usual, you are posting gibberish, unfortunately. I've installed Windows Defender Beta 2 on multiple machines and have had no trouble uninstalling it from any of them. These machines range from intentional "clean" test systems to $2-hooker systems with tons of infestations.

The only thing that attributes to slow performance is lack of hardware and piss-poor coding on the part of the developer. Case in point is Symantec... their corporate editions are fantastic-- fast, low memory consumption and reliably install and uninstall for the most part. Their consumer products are bloated, slow, and craptacular in terms of bugginess during install or uninstall. It's the difference between their teams of developers, not the hook information they got from Microsoft.

Which is a big reason why Microsoft HAS been successful... they've created interoperability and ease of use to the masses... Sure us techies whine and complain because so many idiots use computers and so Microsoft dumbs things down for them rather than beefing things up for us, but the point is that things generally work---- despite all the thousands of combinations of hardware, software, and configurations. On the other hand, Apple has to force you to use only their approved hardware and software to get a similar experience, and Linux well... you have to be a techie to really use it unless you give it to a dumb user in a really locked down form so they can't screw it up.

Geez, enough of the US/European "them and us" mentality. What are you five?

Microsoft had and has several anti-trust cases in the US, EU and South Korea. I believe that the US states are even looking at MS to check they are compliant with the settlement. Let justice take its course and avoid bashing each other.

Noone is privvy to all the facts here so lets not just divide along national borders.

...stupid misclick...

MS should tell the EU and Europe to piss off, and stop selling merchandise abroad. They need Europe like they need collective holes in their heads.

Don't be so naive. Europe is a large market which even Microsoft could not afford to willingly give away to it's competitors.

Microsoft is a convicted monopoly in America and Europe. The difference is that Microsoft is being dealt with as a monopoly in Europe, rather than being given a slap on the back of the hand and asked politely to play nicely, like they were in America.

As a side issue, my life would be a lot easier with out Microsoft.

It's not illegal to have a monopoly on a particular market. Including full featured Microsoft software such as a media player with a Microsoft developed OS is not against the law. It is also perfectly OK for a company to sell a completely closed source OS even if they are a monopoly.

These practices are not causing anyone to lose money. Microsoft is not forcing anyone to use Windows Media Player or any other software that is included with the Windows OS. If you develop a superior product and do a good job at marketing it people will buy it. Enough said.

Actually it's a felony.

Actually, it's abusing monopoly power that is a crime, not being a monopoly in and of itself. In some cases, it is impossible to NOT be a monopoly if you're the only ones that make a product or service.

Consider a small town with only one gas station and one grocery store... if the only choice is to drive 15-30 miles to another town, that's a monopoly and is bound to improve their chances of success.

And that senario is similar here. Everyone flocks to MS because of their easy to use software. As others become more familiar with this process, MS will lose ground.

I think they know this and that is why they are opening to other markets(as the Internet changes) as well as opening their products. But the companies like Sun, Oracle, and IBM are looking for a larger peice of the pie without having to do their homework.

Let's not quibble about who stole what from who, because that will be a nightmare as we look at all the current litigation and lawsuits in the courts for the last 10 years.

They have abused their position in the market in the past, but as I look at the their OS(what it provides) and what is installed on PCs I fail to see where they are using or abusing product integration. They have offered addtional(watered down) products and given source code, but the EU claims it is not enough and it is not what they asked for. After reading the article in CNet and hearing of the secret meetings and partial discussions/emails taken place, it is easy to see that there is much more going on here than any of us know(unless you are part of the EU).

This makes me laugh at all the comments(made here and around the world) about MS and America in our capitalistic ways money/greed mongers taking over the world. We(Americans) are corrupt, and that life is better somewhere else. Then we hear of hear of stories like this, where a governing body that is "supposedly" going to put the American ways in its place or show the world what they really are, now only proving to the world that there is one common thread in all forms of government - GREED. From secret communication and meetings. When will we find out that companies have been paying the EU a lot of money to knock their competitors down or right off the map.

This should definitely make for a great movie. But someone has to die!

Then by all means do without it...

"As a side issue, my life would be a lot easier with out Microsoft."

So buy a Mac? Oh wait, doing that would invalidate your argument that MS is a monopoly...nm.

I do believe America has some "bad apples", however, Government as a whole is not corrupt as most believe it to be.

All governments have bad apples... all countries have bad apples... it cannot be avoided unless we destroy them all. Of course, that would be impossible to accomplish, not to mention make the world an incredibly dull place, so nevermind.

I concur with you... as a whole, government is not capable of being corrupt... only individuals who hold positions of government. Some governments, however, have a larger amount of corrupt officials than others, lol... coughEUcough

ROFL

That is the best comment I've read in a while.

Nice one.

I don't disagree, but it's open to interpretation.

Section 2. Monopolizing trade a felony; penalty

Every person who shall monopolize, or attempt to monopolize, or combine or conspire with any other person or persons, to monopolize any part of the trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, shall be deemed guilty of a felony, and, on conviction thereof, shall be punished by fine not exceeding $10,000,000 if a corporation, or, if any other person, $350,000, or by imprisonment not exceeding three years, or by both said punishments, in the discretion of the court.

MS is not stupid. Neither is the EU. It is very clear here that at least one of them is lying, and whoever is the lier will lose major credibility from the public.

This seems stupid for whatever party is lying. Why risk ruining your entire organization (MS or EU) by making up lies?

It is for this reason that I believe EU to be lying. EU members can survive this, even if the EU is dissolved. Microsoft on the other hand will be in HUGE trouble if they are lying. More to come.

EDIT: Much better info is given here: http://www.tgdaily.com/2...ccuses_ec_of_conspiracy/

There is no doubt in my mind that the EU consulted Microsoft's competition, the US did the very same thing during the monopoly trial here. It's common practive to verify the data that one is given and if they don't have the expertise to validate it then it makes sense to seek third party advice. Microsoft's competitors would have a lot to lose by not working with the EU and absolutely every reason to be bias. When you are dealing with a monopoly you can't find a non-bias source because they no longer exist, hense monopoly. LOL! It's really getting interesting, I wonder what's going to happen next.

http://tgdaily.com/2006/...ccuses_ec_of_conspiracy/

Sorry, it appears BN doesn't like it when we link to other news sources. Can't blame them I suppose...

Bush and the NeoCons should show a bit of courage and split Microsoft up. They should have done it long time ago, now it's time.

And what, seriously, would that accomplish? And no idealistic drivel, either...the world isn't going to magically become a happy place, companies are not going to start popping up to replace Windows and Office...

Instead, Microsoft will be able to bundle more and more apps form it's other companies into windows tightening their grip even more on the PC. I mean, it's a bad thing to bundle your own apps, but apparently apps from other companies are fine (Dell/Firefox).

Yeah, that'd be a real good idea.

I think one behemoth company is plenty, thanks.

I think they should think about split EU up, not MS. Hi hi

Ah, yes, the phantom neoconservatives. A meaningless label from those whose arguments hold no meaning.

"Break Microsoft up!" Yeah, and create multiple market-controlling companies. Way to think out those ideas. No wonder you believe in neocons.

It's thanks to the Republicans with Reagan that in the US a free telcos market was estabilished when they split up the monopoly at the time.
Democrats never did it, the Left Wing can only blame whoever is not a socialist for everything but never does anything to ease things for the citizens nor does what is needed to ensure competitors in a free capitalistic market could exist.

If your thinking had to be followed in the past there would still be a telcos monopoly with no low prices, no xDSL services, no cable modem services, and if the technologies had to be delivered they would either still be in their early stages or way more expensive than what they are today thanks to the splitting of telcos monopoly that existed when Reagan and the Republicans did what had to be done, force a split up to ensure no monopolies control over a free market.

Why on Earth would we split them up? Competition is thriving in computing, and regulation only demonstrates hyperactive control by an infantile narrowmindedness. Open Source is kicking some serious butt and will continue to do so as it develops, and Apple is finally doing things that will build their own growth...

You need to look at some of the companies doing the complaining and prove to me that they're truly being hurt by Microsoft and not just using lawsuits as a business model to overcome their ineptitude to develop a decent product. RealPlayer is absolute garbage, but they use such a model against companies all the time. Nobody cares about their product, so they blame Microsoft because they have lots of money to litigate away. Apple, for all their faults, has got it right-- they work hard on their products, they innovate, and they market market market their products... therefore, they are successful.

Indeed

Different conditions existed at the time... there was no competition to AT&T. There are tons of competitors to Microsoft though. I'm sure you've heard of a movement called Open Source, right? I'm sure you've heard of Apple?

There are tons of free media players available if I don't like the free one that comes with Windows... and if I'm content enough with what Windows provides, it's because you're not doing a good enough job marketing the one you want me to look at.

there already is a free operating system market idiot. you dont have to buy windows now do you?

and reagan only did it for the other companies that wanted him to do it, not for the people.

watch out for those phantom neocons!

indeed.

yea maybe we should look at who is the bigger monopoly here? microsoft or the eu?

well microsoft has apple, now what does the eu have to be better than?

there would still be a telcos monopoly with no low prices,

Wow. Take of your blindfold man. Low prices? Where? not a monopoly? Must be some other reason I can't get dsl from any provider other than frontier.

Cable? Not realted at all. It's not a telco. Any Cable/Telco competition would have happened regardless. just because it's a cable "modem" doesn't mean the telcos had a damn thing to do with it.

Yeah for Reagan! He split up ma bell so she could be reformed in 2006! didn't AT&T and SBC just reintegrate? It's like T3, man...you can put holes in 'em, but they just keep reforming.

Pointless. Just like breaking up MS would be.

LOL

I love the Terminator analogy.

You commies and socialists can only negate facts, can't you ?
If it wasn't for Reagan and the Republicans the people would be paying a lot for internet connectivity nowadays, if it was available.. because due to monopolies like Microsoft that the telcos market was there is no competition that drives innovation and price falling.
What makes many Companies richer is what makes the people richer thanks to falling prices. What ensures a monopoly like Microsoft to exist makes the people poor due to raising prices and no escape.

Your comments are just pretty childish like those of others.
Negating that the telcos split up that Reagan did is what allowed the market you know today to exist with its competition and low prices it's like negating that the Earth is round and not flat.
Being a Left Wing supporter really makes you so blind up to the point to negate facts and reality,that's amazing, indeed.

Open source is no competition at all.
If it was it would have taken 50% of the desktop market already.
Open source that works is only those projects that Companies have business interest for, like web hosting services pushing Apache, PHP, MySQL and such which started to avoid paying commercial UNIXes licenses in the first place and not because they are better products (AIX and DB2 are far better and always will be for example).
Other Open Source anarchy along with GNU/GPL thing and Linux are worthless. They allow web hosting Companies to not buy the OSes and save a lot of money to start their business and such but that's it, nothing more than that.

This is no competition at all.
Apple isn't a competitor either.

If MS dosent start complying with the EU C. theyl get fined to bankrupcy, or loose a load of eu sales, they are messing with the wrong guys. HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Future Headlines:

EU encourages piracy of MS software.

Companies within EU switch to Linux.

"If MS dosent start complying with the EU C."

Microsoft had been ordered to sell a version of Windows without its Media Player software -- check

as well as divulge portions of Windows Server protocols -- check

So exactly which part aren't they complying with?

Paying 497 mill euro--not check

They have not made that ruling yet.

So it ain't checked for a reason.

Want to try again?

>Microsoft had been ordered to sell a
>version of Windows without its Media
>Player software
>-- check

>as well as divulge portions of Windows
>Server protocols
-- check^h^h^h^h^h
oops, no one asked for this.

as well as provide usable documentation on certain APIs and protocols - bzzzt.. NOT check

>So exactly which part aren't they
>complying with?

The part about reading what the requirements actually are and fullfulling them completely. Try reading the article next time.

"As part of the antitrust ruling, Microsoft had been ordered to sell a version of Windows without its Media Player software, as well as divulge portions of Windows Server protocols. A December Statement of Objections from the EU threatened Microsoft with fines of 2 million euros per day for not complying with the latter requirement."

Microsoft is arguing that they have, in fact, complied.

That's the whole point of this current mess.

MS says check, EU says no. MS is now saying EU is using information it obtained illegally and attempting to show that the court is biased and basically unfit to do what it is attempting to do.

So check or no check depends on who you believe is actually being honest/just here.

"oops, no one asked for this"

Um..yea..they did, apparently your the one with a reading comprehension problem.

"as well as provide usable documentation on certain APIs and protocols - bzzzt.. NOT check" -- incorrect, they have provided a TON of documentation but since it doesnt give away the farm the EU isnt happy..so ...check

"Try reading the article next time."

Try getting your facts straight next time.

They haven't been fined yet. Do you pay speeding tickets before getting them?

Here's a conundrum that a "dumb American" like me doesn't understand... who do you report to in the EU if the EU itself is corrupt and not doing its job in a proper manner? It seems to me that the EU has its own little monopoly on legal control, and therefore it should be the one being litigated.

"as well as provide usable documentation on certain APIs and protocols - bzzzt.. NOT check
"

They have received a whole bunch of documentation, but have admitted they haven't read it yet. But they are still pressing ahead with the action anyway...
Microsoft is ripe for beating in many areas, but the EU should at least do it in the right way and for the right reasons. They should be representing "their" people, not the interests of some US based companies.

"they have provided a TON of documentation"

It's the EU C that decides if it is a ton of gibberish or something that is useful. They say it's gibberish - no check.

When a competitor can produce a product that works as well with an MS server as MS products do, then I'll belive MS has complied.

"They say it's gibberish - no check."

of course, it's doesnt give away the farm...like I said. It amazes me how many people on these boards can't read.

"When a competitor can produce a product that works as well with an MS server as MS products do, then I'll belive MS has complied."

I would LOVE to hear the reasoning as to why they SHOULD be required to tell competitors how to beat them. I'm dying for that explanation.

No idea. I'm one of those "dumb Americans".

:P

I'm assuming the EU governing body could step in (Are the legal and governmental bodies seperate in the EU?), but, if how well that works in the US is any indication....

"I would LOVE to hear the reasoning as to why they SHOULD be required to tell competitors how to beat them. I'm dying for that explanation."

Because they were found GUILTY of abusing their monopoly. The punishment is designed to restore fair competition.

When everyone has access to the same API's and server protocols the injured customers will have choices, the injured software developers will be able to compete on merits, and MS will no longer have an unfair advantage.

Bull, they were found guilty of abusing their power to maintain their OS dominance not from writing well honed apps to the system THEY created in the first place. The punishment does nothing to restore fair competition it just gives away the farm to MS competitors. Keeping your APIs and protocols to systems you wrote a secret isn't called an "unfair advantage", it's called "sound business practice"

"they were found guilty of abusing their power to maintain their OS dominance"

No, their crime was using their OS dominance to give an unfair advantage to their other products: media player, IE, Outlook, etc. That is the wrong made right by these penalties.

"it's called 'sound business practice'"

No, the Judges called it a crime, and so do I.

"No, their crime was using their OS dominance to give an unfair advantage to their other products: media player, IE, Outlook, etc."

Not according to the court documents and findings.

"No, the Judges called it a crime, and so do I."

Good thing you aren't in business for yourself then. Wait, lemme take a wild guess here, you dont believe in IP copyrights either do you? Just guessing.

Thanks, you prompted me to find the ruling. Since you, obviously, have not read it here is the link.

http://www.narsil.org/po..._ruling_2004_03_24.html

And here is a quote:

"Microsoft abused its market power by deliberately restricting interoperability between Windows PCs and non-Microsoft work group servers, and by tying its Windows Media Player (WMP), a product where it faced competition, with its ubiquitous Windows operating system."

So I stand corrected, the ruling only mentions workgroup servers and media player. But I am patient, the other Microsoft middleware products that are successful only because of monopoly leverage will also have their day in court.

And, no, I don't have time to change the subject.

So if the punishment is meant to restore competition, and the punishment requires them to do all of this stuff..... how does any of that restore competition? Maybe you can explain it to me, because despite my technical, business, and legal understandings I still don't get it. The Windows XP "N" versions have had ZERO interest despite the supposed interest/demand by these complaining companies, and nothing Microsoft has attempted to do has appeased the EU. They just demand more and more... that is NOT justice, it's blackmail.

Oh, deary me...I glazed over the media players. media players... the ONLY APPLICATION mentioned in the ruling, that MS supposedly had a monopoly in. How terrible of MS to include a crappy media player in the OS for us...they must be punished I tell you! Good thing they have a version without it now...those versions are just flying off the shelves I hear.

"And, no, I don't have time to change the subject"

Whos changing the subject? Want a tin foil hat?

Yes, Windows without media player is rather pointless. Some PC manufacturers wanted the freedom to produce Multimedia PCs without being forced to use media player, now they can. Many more would like to produce PC's with other non-Microsoft default applications, and that day will be here soon enough.

Today's issue is about the PC manufacturers that want to produce work group servers for Windows PC clients. Microsoft has worked hard and is still trying to make that impossible.

No one complains when Microsoft makes good software. We just want them to stop impeding other developers who also want to make good software.

Let's make it a fair race and not a demolition derby. And let's try to discuss the issues without personal insults.

Yes, finally a company with some balls. This should get interesting, I think I alluded to this fact on my last post. Europeans are twits.

"That's not what justice is," the colonel jeered, and began pounding the table again with his big fat hand. "That's what Karl Marx is. I'll tell you what justice is. Justice is a knee in the gut from the floor on the chin at night sneaky with a knife brought up down on the magazine of a battleship sandbagged underhanded in the dark without a word of warning. Garroting. That's what justice is when we've all got to be tough enough and rough enough to fight Billy Petrolle. From the hip. Get it?"

Maybe if MS had not acted so badly in the past all of this would not be haunting them now. Let them file charges against the EU. It will only result in more fines and restrictions levied against MS. Just take your punishment for all the past misdeeds and move on.

honestly i think ms has been trying to get past this. the EU is just absolutely ruthless it seems and keeps introducing new fines and restrictions while continuing to be more vague and making unreasonalbe completely open source demands. at least that's what i gather. i'm probably way off base. it's hard to follow this soap opera.

Yes, yes, and yes.

EU keeps making stuff up. I wish I had some money, I would be over there, getting in their punk a** faces.

An MS doesn't?? Bullying the Judge maybe the American way, But it doesn't wash so well over here in Europe. We'll take our time, and see how far MS will dig their own hole.

In the EU justice is way worse than in the US. Judges don't even put terrorists in jail, too many '68 pro-terrorism people in the EU, way more than in the US.

Well, I guess the main reason is that there was NO evidence to put them into Jail... Any evidene that was provided was of such bad quality that it makes a mokery of the US Justice system...

"mokery"

Don't make a mockery of our language, please. ;P

I keed, I keed....

From http://europa.eu.int/rap...e=EN&guiLanguage=en:

"What is the scope of the interoperability information that the Commission requires Microsoft to document? Does what the Commission requires force Microsoft to reveal the internal workings of Windows?

The 2004 Decision clearly specifies that Microsoft is required to document interoperability information in order "to ensure that Microsoft's competitors can develop products that interoperate with the Windows domain architecture natively supported in the dominant Windows client PC operating system and hence viably compete with Microsoft's work group server operating system. Microsoft should thus allow the use of the disclosed specifications for implementation in work group server operating system products". This standard has not changed since the 2004 Decision. It does not require Microsoft to disclose the internal implementation of Windows, that is to say the source code."

They want documentation - not code, they always have. Microsoft has been found guilty of tying it's products together, now they are being forced to provide the information in a form to allow their competitors to compete on a level playing field. For their competitors to compete on this level playing field they need to be able to use the information and guess what? One of their main competitors is open source software, the information needs to be usable by them as well.

"I wish I had some money, I would be over there, getting in their punk a** faces."

I guess your American then. I come to that conclusion based on your apparent need to meddle in other peoples affairs.

Isn't that what the EU is doing in this case? Meddling in another organization's affairs based on whiney complaints from other businesses that can't sell their products because they suck at marketing?

Indeed.... because they're too busy trying to earn money off a successful company rather than paying attention to the terrorists blowing things up.

The English language didn't belong to the Americans last time I checked...

I kid!

So destroying lives and buildings isn't a jail-worthy offense in the EU? That certainly explains why France has had the snot beaten out of them so many times in history.

I don't think the US is in any position to lecture about "justice" in relation to terrorism. As the US has been illegally holding and torturing people who have had no charges brought against them and no access to a trial for several years in Guantanamo Bay. It has also emerged that they have been kidnapping citizens of a number of countries and flying them to other countries for torture (again without any legal basis).
If that is what you want then fine....just don't wonder when the rest of the world condemns you.

Only the rational, money making portions.
The frilly parts you are free to keep.

What the heck, we'll toss in the entire French language to boot.

A language that needs language police to keep it pure is already useless/dead.

Le CeeDee anyone? Or is it La?
Screw it, I'll ask the Germans, they spent enough time in Paris to know...

that is possibly the funniest thing ive heard since some kid said "well butter my butt and call me a biscut" the other day...

I guess your a bigot then. I come to that conclusion based upon your apparent need to categorize an entire country based upon the actions and impressions of a few.

Wait...

Language is a posession? I can own a language? Where do I bid? I want swahili!

I'll never do *that* again...everyone laughed....I don't think they were laughing with me...

I think you're getting way off topic hear, nevermind the fact that you're just asking to be flamebait, and nevermind the fact that you have nothing but ranting speculation printed all over your post.

They already HAVE docuemntation... it's called msdn.microsoft.com technet.microsoft.com and the Windows Help system. What they want is to demand things, get it, and then change what they want just to stretch all of this crap out. I don't even care any more if they THINK they're doing the right thing of if it's just for some kind of thrill to them... the EU courts are a joke at this point, from my own limited point of view. I'm not going to sit here and blow smoke up anyone's butt and claim that Microsoft is a Saint, but half the EU's complaint is from the same companies who have been crying about their own failures for years.

A language that needs language police to keep it pure is already useless/dead.

Ah must be talking about Quebec eh lol.