fascinates me to read all the comments from the people who don't know what other people earn in other countries.

Maybe MS was not initially aware of the huge discrepancies in US vs China wages, but now they do. Yes, they could even go half and then half yet again to allow chinese citizens an opportunity to purchase the software.

Alas, only free products can compete with MS products, even in China? Just goes to show you that MS products are actually good and people do actually love using them, no matter how many will try to call their products "crap".

Your average work day in the US equates to about 2 months(or more) of earnings for many citizens in Asian countries working 40-70 hours a week, earning 1 or 2 dollars a day.

I would like to see MS extend the Unlimited Potential program to China. Though it is far more developed then other Asian countries, it is hugely stratified by the collossal American corporations that exist there, who bring products back to American soil for the many spoiled and obese people who sit on their comfy counches and complain about this and that.

http://www.microsoft.com...UnlimitedPotential.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com...rograms/up/default.mspx

So, eventhough MS is trying to do something good lowering prices, it is not entirely innocent, but neither are many other companies. It is just another collossal American company.

Learn a little about the world, just so you can appreciate what you have.

http://www.focusweb.org/...hts-for-chinese-wo.html

Um, if you live in China, and you paid for Windows, you're either naive or don't get outside much.

So what's your point? If you have a broadband connection and you are paying for software or music, you are a moron.

Just because stealing is easy, it doesn't make it right.

and the underlying reason why software contains all these different mechanisms to avoid people copying them bewcause people like you who think they are owed it to themselves to have free software.

I never said ANYTHING in defense of stealing/piracy/etc. I was referring to the fact that piracy is rampant in China (and most of Asia) and that "discounting" a price when "free" is more available is useless.

(please spellcheck when you type angry replies)

I NEVER even implied piracy is acceptable. Where do you guys read that? Go back and read it again. Sheesh.

Too funny. A "discount" from free is how much?

Thast a nice way to treat loyal customers, charge them full price and charge the pirates 67% less. No wonder people use pirated microsoft software as they treat real customers like s***.

Prices should be as low as 10$ to reduce the piracy or else it will get 100% from 82%

Just goes to show. Come on rest of the world, keep pirating... MS will lower their price everywhere.

What happened to prices are high because of piracy?

Ahh, it sells for $1 worth of their overinflated currency @ street over there... keep going lower, MS.... LOL...

Maybe Bill Gates should visit www.9down.com. It looks just like any other English language site; but most of it's users are really in China! They do not need, want or plan on using stripped down versions of VISTA in their native languages. Hell no; they use the same software that most of us are using here.

Lotsa luck selling that crap to Goofy and his friends over there...

Still costs $66/$118 more than GNU/Linux and OpenOffice. The lesson? Become a pirate nation and Microsoft will reward you!

Yeap. If you are not supporting Bush, you are supporting the terrorists.

or If you anti-Bush, you are anti-American.

We all know that all Americans don't like BUSH.

hehe... he's gonna go down in the upcoming election!

Uh, you cant vote for him again, hes already served 2 terms so of course he is going to go down.

As Lil' Cheney would say:

Rnar, Rnar, Rnar...Signing Statement...Rnar, Rnar, Rnar.

Wow you are so smart he can't run because of something called term limits.

Not at last the country is at wars.

Um, might I suggest ESL courses?

whatever, you know it was a typo, and know I was trying to unless.

and know I was trying to unless.

*laughs*

What???

Is this some sort of new code?

You know I'm just messing with you, right? ;)

Related:

We just opened a new datacanter, so I had my wife print some signs. She apparently doesn't know the difference between "extinguish" and "distinguish"...

We now have about 20 signs outside the building telling the smokers to distinguish their cigarettes. No-one said anything for three days. Good times...good times..

Gah, Microsoft succumbing to the Commies!

I'm sure the Chinese are more than happy with their popular Redflag Linux distro.

This will just increase pirating and bootlegging; asians are really into it. Not that I mind :D

When you consider that average wage in China is about 1000 yuan / mo ($135 US /month) - $66 for a copy of Windows XP is not going to do a lot of good in stopping piracy.

It might stop or slow down corporate theft, but it's probably not going to make individuals stop.

Especially with the cost of goods rising in China - that $135 doesn't go as far as it used to. Much like here in the States.

Irrelevant numbers since the "average" wage workers would not even own computers. They are not part of the marketing target.

China has 1.2 BILLION people (probably way more). The vast majority of them are not living in the cities where computer and internet are commonplace.

Paying Terrorist Ransom doesnt work.

Where are the price cuts here in the USA? If it were $100 I'd buy it gladly. But alas its not, so I'll settle for my copy instead.

If it were $100 I'd buy it gladly.

What? $100 OK, but $105 is too much for ya?

MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA 32BIT HOME PREMIUM OEM 1PK DVD ($105.90)

Or $129 for the retail Upgrade?

MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA 32BIT HOME PREMIUM UPGRADE ($129.90)

Sorry, but I wont touch anything other than professional or higher. With regards to both XP and Vista.

http://www.mwave.com/mwa...A66740&RSKU=AA66740

I haven't bothered looking at the price since this crap came out, I am surprised it has droped that much.

Although a web link to an online shoping site is almost pointless, what I meant was when I can walk into a best buy and see that the price is $100, I'll gladly buy it. No upgrades or home versions though.

http://www.bestbuy.com/s...=1&id=1158317974491

I agree, I think the whole pricing scheme is total BS. I use remote desktop when I'm at home and some review sites are saying that you can't do RDC on Home Premium. If I could get a full version for around a $100 bucks, too, then I would get it in the stores. For now, I'll keep getting my boxed version of OS X for $129 in the stores and Keep my six year old copy of XP pro (slipstreamed, of course).

What, exactly, do you currently do with XP Pro that you could not do with Vista Home Premium?

...and people still buy anything computer related at BestBuy?

I am sick of the argument on $129 copy of OSX and poster never bother to bring up the fact you have to put out another $129 for the next services pack. MS gives you free services packs. And how many services packs did OSX has? Oh yea, they have none, they call it update.

Its not that the price went down so quickly its an OEM copy, they always are cheaper.

Actually they call it:

Panther, Leopard, Zebra, Brontosaurus, Bald Eagle

/yes I know those names are not all correct
//it was a joke, sheesh.

Well I dont have to authorize an installation every 2 seconds....(hehe, I know I can disable it of course, but explain that to your average consumer)

"...and people still buy anything computer related at BestBuy?"

Just to let you know, most consumers still do drive out to stores and buy just about anything.

One is, the other was a retail upgrade.

Well I dont have to authorize an installation every 2 seconds....(hehe, I know I can disable it of course, but explain that to your average consumer)

I am missing the link between why this would be a reason you'd upgrade to Ultimate, but not Home Premium...

What feature of XP Pro do you *currently* use that is not available in Vista Home Premium? (Since that was your reasoning for not wanting to buy VHP)

Just to let you know, most consumers still do drive out to stores and buy just about anything.

Bah. They're sheep. You should know better. :p

Figure also:

VHP Retail Upgrade: $129.

OSX (Which is, for all intents and purposes an OEM Upgrade) is the same price.

Ubuntu's names are better.

I do miss the Hoary Hedgehog.

Dapper Drake just doesn't have the same panache.

"What, exactly, do you currently do with XP Pro that you could not do with Vista Home Premium?"

thats what you asked me...

"What feature of XP Pro do you *currently* use that is not available in Vista Home Premium? (Since that was your reasoning for not wanting to buy VHP)"

Pro != Home ... :-P

..and you still haven't answered.

You said:

Sorry, but I wont touch anything other than professional or higher. With regards to both XP and Vista.

I replied:

"What, exactly, do you currently do with XP Pro that you could not do with Vista Home Premium?"

You haven't answered. I assume there must be some reason, otherwise you wouldn't have made that specific statement.

Yeah, that's cool. I'll pay $129 for it since it's WORTH IT!!! You got so bent over my preference on using OS X that you over looked the part that I still use my copy of XP pro.

XD That was good!

I've always only gotten professional or better. I don't even need to get technical here. There wouldn't be a Home and a Professional version if there wasn't a difference. I'm sure there are technical differences between the two. I simply play it safe by assuming professional is better.
I don't want to buy a home version just to find out later that professional has a feature I might want that I am not aware of for the time being. If you care to educate me in the differences then do so, but until then I'm sticking to professional or better .

I use remote desktop when I'm at home and some review sites are saying that you can't do RDC on Home Premium

That sucks. Seriously. I did not know they pulled that from VHP. I'm using Ultimate, so I never noticed.

I Googled it and there are apparently ways of getting it working in VHP, but...

If you're currently using XP, and you don't *need* anything Vista has to offer, just stick with XP until MS drops security updates.

Okay.

See?

That wasn't so hard.

I'm not going to slam you for being lazy or anything, even.

You're opting for convenience. That's understandable. Your initial argument seemed to imply that there was some feature or functionality XP Pro and Ultimate shared that VHP does not (like RDP).

But when you do start getting the itch to upgrade (if you eventually do), please read up on it. VHP will always be cheaper than Ultimate (currently @ $189 for OEM) and if you don't need extras or RDP, you can save yourself some cash. :)

(Note, you can, if you eventually go with VHP and need something from utlimate, like RDP, upgrade to ultimate from VHP for far less than buying a new version. This is the first time MS has not only allowed, but set up a service for that.)

These are the things you will not find in vista home premium as compared to windows vista ultimate:

- Complete PC Backup and Restore - image based
- Shadow Copy - used for restoring previous version of your documents
- 2 CPU support
- small business resources
- windows fax and scan
- wireless network provisioning
- partial windows mobility center where as with ultimate you get full support
- Offline folder support
- System image-based backup and recovery
- Encrypting file system
- Desktop deployment tools for managed networks
- policy based quality of service for networking
- windows rights management services client
- control over installation of device drivers
- network access protection client agent
- windows bitlocker drive encryption
- support for simultaneous installation of multiple user interface languages
- All worldwide user interface languages available
- Subsystem for UNIX based applications

Do you use any of these features or will you ever?

I'll have to check my specs, but I believe VHP Supports 2 CPUs and Windows Fax.

my concern in buying vista home prem v.s. ultimate is for some reason microsoft's top level os's seem to be alot more stable then there home versions (xp pro v.s. home) but i couldn't get myself to cough up the extra cash for a bunch of features in ultimate i wasn't going to use and when with home prem 64 and have no regrets only had one issue with a windows update but we already have had that argument before :-)

Thanks, heres what I'd see my self using. Some more than others of course.

- Shadow Copy - used for restoring previous version of your documents
- windows fax and scan
- wireless network provisioning
- System image-based backup and recovery
- Encrypting file system
- Desktop deployment tools for managed networks
- control over installation of device drivers
- network access protection client agent

I'm sold alone on the Encrypting file system.

Although I must admit, I didn't use the encryption scheme during my 'trial' of Vista Ultimate.

I hate doing this, but I can relate this to consoles. Take the core and premium xbox 360 for example. I bought the premium because I didn't want to buy a hard drive, HD cables ect. at a later time. I'd rather have them, even if I don't use them (I do use them though). As for upgrading, well I already have a 20 gig hd and I'm not rushing out to get myself a 120gig one.

What I'm trying to say is that if I spend my money I want to always get the top model of any product. I don't like the idea of upgrading at all, the way I see it is if I was going to upgrade why bother buying the lower model?

The thing is, a 360 is hardware, thats the one thing that everyone absolutely needs to buy. And as for software, I just can't see myself spending anymore than $100 for ANY software. I don't need a legitimate copy to make me happy. Alas, like I've stated before for $100 for the complete Vista, I'd buy it just to avoid the risks involved with not being legitimate.

This, I think is the reasoning for Microsoft towards China. I just wish they'd consider applying it here, but like someone mentioned: Hell will freeze over before that.

The Drake was a regrettable choice. Feisty Fawn is the latest, restoring some of the old panache. ;o)

Hoary Hedgehog is still better. (The name, not the build) :p

Although Vista is a clear failure which deserved a "Windows Millenium 2" name, Microsoft marketing department will push it as much as possible to decrease XP sales just to satisfy Gate's and Ballmer's ambitions.

As for me I run Fedora 7 Linux. My Windows mates who I administer will not see the light of Windows Vista until a service pack or Windows 7 (Vienna) comes out.

"Although Vista is a clear failure"

http://news.com.com/2100-1016_3-6149468.html
http://news.com.com/2100-1016_3-6149468.html

I don't get it...how did you come to that failure conclusion?

Clearly your bias against Windows blinds you to the facts. Here is just one article that disputes your well-researched comment: http://www.betanews.com/...f_Vista_Sold/1179248585

Although I can side with you on not using Vista, I have to admit that your absolute statement was a bad call.

Yeah except Vista's problems are due to compatibility issues, and some speed issues. (some of which appear to be fixed from the beta patches that were released)

So, no its nothing like ME.

If you had read the related news carefully then you would have known that

1) Most Vista's sold are OEMs
2) Business shun Vista
3) If we compare the numbers of PCs sold in 2001 and in 2006-2007 then you'll see that Vista adoption is in order of magnitude less than XP's

You see I'm not exaggerating the facts.

In the related news

1) Dell and other major PCs suppliers announces that they would offer Windows XP on new PCs

2) Acer chief has blasted the arrival of Microsoft's Windows Vista as a huge disappointment to the whole industry

3) Microsoft said that it expects Windows XP to make up a significantly larger part of sales in the coming year

Do you call that an astounding success? Even when Microsoft admits that people still prefer XP

This is the SAME thing that happened with XP, in 3 years if the new MS OS is to be released by then, you will hear everyone complain that Windows 7 is horrible its like windows me 3. Vista is so much better... etc etc.

> Vista is so much better... etc etc.

So far you haven't said why it's better.

What I see is that

1) Vista is resources hungry
2) Vista complicates and clutters the graphical user interface
3) Vista trashes your HDD (have you noticed your HDD always blinks under Vista?)
4) Vista has far less drivers than XP or Linux

A failure because

1) It took two more years for MS to develop it than they initially estimated
2) Many promised technologies were dumped
3) Many hardware manufactures still don't provide Vista compatible drivers (A year (!) after a release candidate was out).
4) Many software titles still don't run under Vista

> beta patches that were released

1) Beta!
2) Vista was released on November 11, 2006 ... so you mean that Vista is still not ready for mass roll out?

Wow.

1.) Vista's increased RAM usage is a bonus. XP swapped it's core to disk. Vista does not. This equates to better performance. (if you have the RAM to handle it)

2.) Vista's UI is simpler and more streamlined. The start-menu has been revamped and no longer takes up the whole screen.

3.) Ever installed Google desktop search or Windows Live search? That's the indexer. It hides itself in the lowest service priority mode when the computer is in use so as to not affect system performance.

4.) Both of those OSes have had at least 7 years head start.

Its called testing said patch before releasing it to the market to make sure it doesn't break existing programs. (to be included in sp1 as this is a normal process with MS)

Apple just released a total of 50 patches they must not have been ready either.

Linux releases new updates on its software as well, it must not be ready either.

Complicated software will always have problems, no piece of software is perfect.

Maybe you can't read.

I said, to everyone that says Vista sucks, (in 3 years if MS comes out with another OS by then) everyone will be going on about how great Vista is and Windows 7 is horrible.

Clearly it sounds you have no experience using Vista as you are using the same arguments of people that have never used it and just copying it off of someone else that had a problem.

Wow.

1) Vista's increased RAM usage is a bonus.

Try to run Vista on PC with less than 512MB of RAM

2) Absolutely most people find Vista's UI terribly clunky and non intuitive

3) I don't care about the search - I care about the health of my HDD. You can disable Vista's search completely (by forcing it to index zero folders) then run sysinternals filemon and observe a Vista's filesystem total madness. It keeps writing and writing to your HDD all the time regardless your activity. You are not a system administrator and I am

4) It doesn't justify Microsoft. Soon (November, 2008) it'll be a year after Vista was released

Vista was in beta since 2004, is it MS's fault that a lot of developers sat on their hands?

It is a bonus as its not consistently accessing the hdd.

Since most computers are coming standard with a gig now, your argument is moot.

"most people" where are these people at that believe this?

Search was added because the majority wanted it, if they didn't want it they can install something else that does not hinder performance.

How do you know he's not a system admin?

Try to run Vista on PC with less than 512MB of RAM

I wouldn't suggest it, hence my statement just after that in parentheses.

Absolutely most people find Vista's UI terribly clunky and non intuitive

This is purely anecdotal with nothing whatsoever to back it up. Most of the folks I know who have switched have said the exact opposite once they have gotten used to the new interface.

I don't care about the search - I care about the health of my HDD.

Then buy a Seagate.

It keeps writing and writing to your HDD all the time regardless your activity.

Das blinken lights do not necessarily indicate writing. Check your system performance window.

You can disable Vista's search completely (by forcing it to index zero folders)

This does not disable indexing completely. You need to disable the service.

You are not a system administrator and I am

You assume *way* too much.

It doesn't justify Microsoft. Soon (November, 2008) it'll be a year after Vista was released

...and the same tired argument was made about XP. *yawn*

You know, I actually advise most folks to just stick with XP for now. Sadly, instead of saying you simply didn't have a need for it, which would have been fine, you tried to criticize it when you apparently have very little understanding of it.

Good lord, man.

1.) Same for every other MS OS that's *ever* been sold with an OEM option. Duh?

2.) Same with *any* less than 1-yr old OS. Again, duh?

3.) Er...same with 98->XP. Again...duh?

You aren't exaggerating, you are simply implying that *any* of those facts are new and/or specific to the current release, which they are not.

Wow, it never stops.

1.) OS work was scratched approx 3 years into production, so by pure dev-time alone, it was a year early (by your estimates, anyway)

2.) Again, because work was restarted from scratch 3 years into production and was not feasible given the time constraints.

3.) ...and this is Microsoft's fault?

4.) Many don't run under MacOS. Or Linux. Or SCO. However, many do. Few with problems. Most are due to being poorly or insecurely written in the first place (and yes, even MS is guilty of this one).

You can cut & paste the classic trolls all you want. Trust me, we've heard (and pointed out the flaws) of all of them.

apparently i just have a good machine because outside of the one driver update i had to roll back i've had no issues at all even with apps that specifically warn you they don't work on vista (BTV 4.6.1) work around the clock with no problems and speed wise it runs circles around xp pro 64 never reboot except for updates and has never froze, blue screened or any of the other ocassional probs
asus crosshair mobo
athlon fx 62
2 gig mushkin memory
4 300gig seagata hd's
2 nec dvd burners
radeon 850
audigy2 zs gamer
2 hauppauge pvr 150's

3.) ...and this is Microsoft's fault?

Have you read this: http://www.cs.auckland.a...01/pubs/vista_cost.html

It's an interesting (but long) read.

While you're reading, here's the list of anticipated fixes in the upcoming service pack. It'll be nice to see things like the "calculating the ‘estimated time remaining" issue fixed.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=605

Windows Vista includes an extensive reworking of core OS elements in order to provide content protection for so-called “premium content”, typically HD data from Blu-Ray and HD-DVD sources. Providing this protection incurs considerable costs in terms of system performance, system stability, technical support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not only users of Vista but the entire PC industry, since the effects of the protection measures extend to cover all hardware and software that will ever come into contact with Vista, even if it's not used directly with Vista (for example hardware in a Macintosh computer or on a Linux server). This document analyses the cost involved in Vista's content protection, and the collateral damage that this incurs throughout the computer industry.

The entire article focuses on the additional costs of HDCP support and blames it entirely on Vista. While Vista supports HDCP, it is not the *cause* of HDCP.

Lets get a few things straight:

HDCP was developed by Intel and is used in BluRay and HDDDVD.

This is not Microsoft's technology.

BluRay and HDDVD content, depending on the authors use of the ICT (Image Constraint Token) will either not play at all, or play at a much lower resolution on any system that does *not* contain support for HDCP.

While Microsoft is the first, *any* OS that chooses to support HDDVD or BluRAY *must* support HDCP.

The article relegates itself to BS by trying to imply that Vista, not HDCP, will be the cause of their supposed additional costs (which come with any new technology or format, I might add).

If they are really looking for someone to blame, they need look no further than Intel, Sony, and Toshiba. These are the guys that created the DRM, the discs, and the need. All Microsoft did was support it, as will any other OS that wants to be able to display that content.

Seriously, blaming Microsoft for HDCP (and related) is like blaming Franz Ferdinand for Sony's Rootkit fiasco.

ROFL! Wow, that got a rise out of you! And there I was just trying to give you something interesting to read.

Obviously, I disagree with your interpretation of the article, although the extensive use of bold fonts came close to swaying my opinion. ;o)

Yeah, ya struck a nerve. Vista and Microsoft are getting slammed for HDCP, which they had little hand in creating (Both the tech and the "need").

It's not like people need to make sh*t up to find something to whine about concerning Microsoft.

...and yet they do.

Well, have a drink, take a breath, and read the entire article. Your objections are fully addressed and thoroughly rebutted. There's even one paragraph that seems to have been written for you personally. You'll know it when you get there.

"This is the SAME thing that happened with XP"

No, it didn't. XP was a far superior OS, when compared to anything out there at the time and this was obvious long before it's official release. There were a few compatibility problems and a cartoonish interface, but these issues were outweighed by an OS that was faster and actually improved the user experience.

So far, widely available evidence has shown that XP is STILL a superior experience for all but the most knuckle-headed fanboys. Even Microsoft now acknowledges a large number of problems that contribute to slow, inefficient, and troublesome computing. I'm as hopeful as anyone else that these issues will be addressed but until then, Vista is a beta quality OS.

Please enlighten me. I've read most of it and even skimmed down to the bottom. I have yet to see any point where they cease to blame Vista for HDCP, or anything "Written for me".

It just goes on and on about how HDCP (Though they call it "Vista") was apparently designed by MS to lock out competition and destroy the computer industry.

Seriously, if there's a paragraph in there that makes it all click into place and I'm just missing it, please, do tell. I cannot find it.

Just for fun, finish the article, including the mini-FAQ and the info on Microsoft's response. I doubt anything will change your mind and it's not my intention to try to do that.

Instead of trying to be "right," just try and learn something. There's a whole lot there beyond your very narrow view and it won't hurt to give that information some real consideration.

Just out of curiosity, what's so narrow about my view?

My view, I think, is pretty simple: HDCP, not Vista would be responsible for the increased costs they are projecting, and Intel, Sony, and Toshiba are far more responsible for HDCP than Microsoft.

Frankly, I don't think it's a view at all rather than than fact.

I'll read the FAQ and the response. If there's any portion you'd like me to ponder, please feel free to quote it here. I think we're the only one's left in this topic. :p

{Edit}

Woah! *laughs* The mini-faq just pours it on...

It's bad-technology bashing. Then bash the tech (HDCP), not the support mechanisms that allow consumers to view the protected content.

I challenge anyone to read the specifications given in the Sources section above and write a positive analysis of Vista's content protection. This is my main point. It's not Vista's. It's Intel, Sony's, and Toshiba's. Vista just supports playback of the content restricted by their content protection.

The bit about the Dank Defense, which I am sure you were referring to as what was written for me is the *only* portion of the entire article I agree with (Yes, I agree with it, funny, eh?)

But he took it beyond, 'We made a business decision to support playback of this content', and instead implied, 'We created this protection within Vista to lock out competition'. (The "lockout competition" bit is his from the first few paragraphs.)

Yes, Microsoft supports playback of protected material "possibly" at the expense of resources and one's pocketbook.

For a second, look at it from Microsoft's point of view (or mine, I can't speak for Bill):

We either support it, or we don't. If we do not, we'll be selling an OS that is not compatible with the latest AV hardware, unable to play movies protected by HDCP. Since we've gone through the trouble of including MCE in this OS, it might be seen as a blunder to not include support for playback of the latest formats.

MS is striving to be more media-centric on the desktop. Not supporting BluRay or HDDVD would have been a *really* dumb move in that regard.

That, in comparison to "supposed" increased resource usage (That doesn't affect those not utilizing the protected content or hardware capable of displaying it) and increased costs (again, for hardware that will likely offset the resource usage) is a no-brainer.

I fully expect NVIDIA and AMD to release video crads with built-in decoders for HD in the near future just as they do now for standard DVD.

Progress costs money, uses more resources. Yes, HDCP sucks. But in this case, with their eyes on multimedia, I really do feel MS had very little choice in this. They had to support it or turn their backs on these formats, which would not fit with their multimedia focus in Vista.

I am seriously interested in what you believe they should have done. Do you think they could have realistically included MCE without the ability to play these formats and held any belief that it could still be seen as a "Media Center"?

"what's so narrow about my view?"

"My view, I think, is pretty simple"

One comment pretty much answers the other.

There is a lot more to Vista's content protection than HDCP and if that is not obvious to you, then I think your view is too narrow. That or you misunderstand the article.

Sorry the edit took so long.

Please re-read in it's entirety. I do want you to respond to my last question, if you have the time. I am genuinely interested in your response. Other than the offhanded "narrow view" comments, I've enjoyed this discussion.

If you truly believe Vista has implemented more than simple support for protected content, please elaborate. I do not discount the fact that I may have missed something. I just greatly doubt it. ;)

Not much time, I'm headed out for the evening. Just one quick example of what I mean when I say it's not just about HDCP. As far as I can tell tilt bits are far more involved with NGSCB, formerly known as Palladium, which was not created by Intel. If you know anything about the history of Palladium, then you know it was not intended as mere support for content protection. In fact, Palladium was viewed as so toxic to computing in general that the name had to be changed. Palladium was, in fact, a Microsoft initiative.

Now, if you read the section on tilt bits, a phenomenon is described that closely matches the experience that many users have complained of when trying to view content that requires no copy protection, even such simple media as personal videos and photos. Can I say for a fact that tilt bits are causing that phenomenon? No, but the description sure matches what happens and no better explanation has been offered.

There are lots of great tidbits like that in this article and they make it a very interesting read.

As for whether or not I think Microsoft should have passed on supporting HD-DVD or BluRay; yeah, I think they should have taken a leadership position and dismissed both formats. The general public doesn't give a damn about either one. Both formats will be dead within just a couple of years, replaced by downloaded video content. Personally, I don't like the idea of downloadable content being the only option, but if content providers are not going to allow personal copies (at no additional cost) there is never going to be a solution. No copy protection will ever work and people will always want to be able to back up their content investment.

The thing is about Palladium (system integrity team) etcetc it was not implemented into Vista, its expected to hit later and apparently has gone under several different revisions as well.

Any file that doesn't have drm copies over to my vista machine with no problems whatsoever and plays and or views fine, hell even itunes drm infested files lets me play the content on vista without an issue.

The only thing I see differently from Vista and Xp in this was XP had a seperate download if and when you needed to view special content, vista appears to be integrated already but what is it hurting?

I'll have to read that section a bit more in depth. I really want to know what issues they are seeing. I've been using Vista now for months and have not had a problem watching or viewing *any* of my media (once I got the codecs installed).

None of my stuff has any protection, it's xvid, divx, mps, ogg, flac, etc..

I *have* noticed the file-transfer over removable media bug, but...fixed.

I'll take another look at it tomorrow.

Thanks :)

Huh...so piracy actually helps REDUCE prices...not increase them...

Recently Microsoft representatives said that they [MS] can afford piracy of Windows in China just to beat Linux.

A new MS motto: "Any means to an end [of Linux]!"

Exactly. I guess we should encourage others to pirate Vista so that we too can share in future price cuts. But I think hell will freeze over first.

Yeah, greedy Steve Balmer wouldn't allow it...not on his wallet.

New?

whats a joke is because north america pirates less we still have to pay the original outrageous prices. glad my os was free of charge.

Just goes to show you how overpriced their software is.

The amazing thing about this is that I have read in other, generally well considered publications, that MS was allowing Vista and Office to be pirated or sold for ridiculously low prices [the quoted figure was $3] specifically to quash any interest in Linux.

Imagine what price cuts to 'sane' levels would do in this country. And yes, I know about the 'Home and Student Editions' but they are not complete, are they?