RSSMicrosoft Downplays Activation Whitepaper
By Nate Mook and David Worthington | Published July 10, 2001, 6:51 AM
In the first comprehensive study of its kind, an Internet start-up has released a whitepaper providing technical insight into the inner workings of Windows Product Activation. The study's conclusion agrees with Microsoft's assertions that typical hardware modifications will not require re-activation, and that end user privacy is protected. Despite the open analysis, Microsoft is not concerned about details exposed in the paper, citing the inevitability of the technology being reverse engineered. The software giant stands behind WPA as "well engineered work" that will not be harmed by this publication.
Research conducted by Fully Licensed GmbH, a start-up focusing on software licensing, reveals that an ID composed of ten different hardware components and the Windows product key is the only information sent to Microsoft servers during the activation process. A user will be able to change up to three of the ten hardware components before having to re-activate Windows.
In line with privacy claims, deciphering the actual hardware configuration of a given machine from the ID is an impossible task, as a random three-digit number is used to create the final encrypted string.
When questioned about the significance of the study, Microsoft Product Manager Mark Croft told BetaNews the company has no problem with the whitepaper having reviewed it prior to publication. Downplaying its importance, he stated, "I don't think it is that big of a deal - something of this nature was bound to happen sooner or later."
Additionally, Croft contends that the report, "is largely accurate technically, but it also contains some errors. The errors, in our opinion, do not however affect the report's conclusions." He goes on to say, "The contents or conclusions do not surprise us. The conclusions in fact support many of the statements we have made already about product activation: we respect user's privacy and the vast majority of users will never have to reactivate once they activate initially."
According to Croft, potential misuse of technical details outlined in the report is not of concern to Microsoft. He also dismisses claims that product activation can now be more easily subverted, declaring "There is no security issue here. Companies and individuals research, decompile, and review our code all the time. There is nothing in the report that can aid hackers."
A demonstration program, as well as its source code, is available for download, officially mirrored on BetaNews. A FAQ, has also been posted to answer additional questions.
"no-one pirates Adobe Photoshop or any 'popular' application"
You got me there chris! I'm sorry, but I do have a life outside of chlorinating the gean pool.
I said "NO one pirates the M$ OS" I did not however say: "no-one pirates Adobe Photoshop". Never the less, backed by your greedy 'Lord of the Gullible', Bill G, and yielding to no Laws or human rights; I think it is quite clear that the level of retardedness and crap that you and your superstar team of paid-by-micros*** liars are flinging, is on a level of its own, and a force to be reckoned with.
My point is, of all the software that I know that is pirated, the least of them all is the M$ OS. It would be like pirating AOL, you don't need to. It comes with virtually every computer on earth, (with the exception of your computers chris. Yeah right!). I know people with legally purchased stockpiles of Win 95 and 98 CDs. I have a hand full of them myself, all legally purchased. I have found numerous quantities of M$ software in the trash; Bookshelf 2000, Win 98, Win 95, Office 97, streets 98, Encarta 98, completely unopened in a thin plastic wrapper along with the Certificate of Authenticity and EULA.
Yet, I don't use that crap. Encarta and Bookshelf suck. Do we really need a picture of Billy G, and not one of Kennedy? Talk about Acute Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Activation would be like giving out software on self destructing disappearing ink. What if we give commodity's a mind of their own? They would be told to commit suicide after so much time so that the consumer would have to buy it again. Find a piece of furniture in the trash? Too bad! It would fall apart if you didn't let it report itself to the Furniture Police.
The M$ OS is ubiquitous!
I know that Office is pirated and other software, but how can you pirate without the OS let alone pirate the OS. The real reason for Activation is because bill G is the most greedy and paranoid person on earth. Even in the infancy of the computer world, people didn't care about piracy because there was no feasible way to stop it.
Not Bill G! He wrote articles about how Piracy was so evil way back then, and was the only person at the time pestering people to death about paying their software tax. Only bill g could conceive of such an evil plan. He thinks everyone on earth is conspiring against him because his little warped mind knows how far greed will drive a sick twisted person. It amazes me sometimes how people think they are so in titled to money. Perhaps if we did'nt have bill g, we wouldn't have such a "I am in titled to Billions because of my ego" attitude.
People left to their own devices will do evil things. The ego in psychology is what drives us to do evil things, especially when we are insane, like bill gates. Thats why we need laws against this stuff. We made the bill of rights years ago to stop these evil people. Al Gore said he would make a Internet Bill of Rights, but we got stuck with that illiterate retard that can't even talk let alone use a computer.
The only reason for Activation is to take inventory on our hardware, sell it as well as use it as a software cookie to perform search and seizures of software (without a warrant). Think for a moment. Every M$ application will require Activation. The hardware information will be transmitted everytime you install and activate a piece of software. This is a full inventory of your software exactly, on what computer, how often, where, your phone number, who is pirating it. Yet they tell us no sensitive data is transmitted and to trust them.
100 times more deceptive than Regwiz ('bug'), and more evil and in our face.
"Microsoft OS' are one of the easiest thing to find"
Yep, Because it comes pre-installed on 95% of every computer on earth and 92% of the world uses windows.
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|I hate to tell you this, but Windows is probably the MOST pirated piece of software out there, wheather it's through websites, fake CD's, or casual copying.
I'm afraid that either you are either lying through your teeth, or you are just plain ignorant.
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|And one more thing, Encarta is a GREAT program, although, I can't say anything about Bookshelf, as I've never really used it.... after seeing that comment about it, anyone can see that you will say anything just to put MS down.
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|I have to say, I have been laughing at the posts.
All this mud slinging at each other!!
Over what? Which OS is better, activation sux, etc.
Before I say anything, I'm not an administrator, or some big tech head. I'm just a programmer who is stuck with windows.
In some ways I agree that Microsoft is becoming too big for their shoes, and are overstepping the line (on an offside note, I hope XBOX crashes and burns for MS).
Another thing, I don't want to pay subscription fee to use Office, or Messenger (crappy anyway), or any other software (I've already seen a billboard showing Office for RENT for AUS$299 per year), I prefer to pay a one off fee, and be done with it.
I'm not going to buy XP, because I think the activation is a bit too much. I might move to Win2k instead, and I might use Linux for some other stuff (like using it as my net server, as I share a connection with a friend).
I think we'll just have to wait and see when XP is officially released, and see how it works with the everyday consumer.
But before then, can't really say anything, as there are too many conflicting (and biased) stories.
That's my 2 cents, and I'll go back to my lurker corner.
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|Since this page has been up, Bill has instructed his Fleet of Idiots to constantly have a PR Robot on duty monitoring it. But Linux-haters, don't worry - it didn't slow down the outgoing stream of messages since their time schedule still had a hole where "Kill Netscape" used to be.
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|....[Begin Quote]....
If you want to cry conspiracy theories and start a revolution, then leave the private sector alone. Currently attacking them does nothing for the evolution of humans. All governments lie, steal, and murder. Get your priorities straight.
....[End Quote]....
'The Private Sector' does nothing for the 'evolution of humans'. They eat humans for lunch and defecate on society. The sole purpose of a corporation is to perpetuate itself at the cost of the sweat, blood, and labor of its slaves.
The 'evolution of humans' requires fecundity. Tell me the workers at dupont - who are now sterile because the corporation lied about the toxic effects of the chemicals they were being exposed to - are somehow better off?
This is what really matters to the corporation:
if x = projected earnings and y = workforce liability
and z = x - y
if z is 23% of x then liability can be covered.
In other words, who cares about people when we can make money. Who cares about extinction. By the time they catch up with us, we'll have billions of dollares and they can't do anything. We'll pay them off with our chump change.
The genes suffer directly at the hands of corporations. Look at the statistics for cancer and learning disabilities, they have skyrocketed. Our tissues are saturated with thousands of toxic chemicals, and Sperm counts are plummeting while our men are growing tits.
'The Private Sector' is not god, and its not evolution, its just an artifact of human invention and should never drive the human to extinction or it becomes a parasite and viral in nature.
Kind of like CPUGuy is to this board. I mean that literally. Any person who blindly follows anything a corporation does or says, is a cult follower whose entire life has become subordinated to the propagation of microsoft, robotically and at any opportunity.
Betanews is starting to look like a M$ vector. The FUD M$ and all their robots on this board spread, intolerance, suspension of critical judgment, paranoid anti-Communism of Linux and OSS, piracy-phobia, and allergic reactions to any objection or dissatisfaction to M$.
Yet Microsloth is an aberration to the whole concept. Microsloth promotes self-isolation by repetitive exposure to Microsloth proprietary standards and software. That is exo-toxic to competitors. Piracy of competitors ideas is the Microsloth way of innovating.
We are trying to get M$ to stop being Viral and Parasitic. Look at the internet, cookie-espionage, advertisement bombardment, spyware, VBScript in e-mail, spam, Click Here! FREE!, Deceptive Privacy Policies. Do we need more money driven innovations that serve the wallet of microsloth and not the consumer.
We don't need monopolies for innovation. For example: Linux co-evolved with humans in much the same way language did, as an artifact of human culture.
The evolution of humans relies on the elimination of scarcity not the creation of artificial scarcity that monopolies perpetuate. The record industry, drug industry, and M$ all spread Piracy Paranoia, Funding FUD, and inflated losses from the evil pirates. Perhaps they should have thought of that when they started charging $20 for a music CD that cost nothing to manufacture.
Today, the scarcity of the IP idea pool can be eliminated. Perhaps one day we can remove the scarcity of food, so long as its ok with the food industry that we have an unlimited food supply? Perhaps we could install a microchip in our stomachs to tell the food industry how much food we are pirating in our food duplicators. They could even tax us or add food-copy protection to our kitchens.
We battled smart tags. Now its time to kill OS Activation.
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|I didn't realise that 'Microsoft Downplays Activation Whitepaper' was codename for 'Windows vs Linux'. Why are you always looking for a fight? Do you need to tell yourself that Linux is 'better'? And define the term 'better' because I'm almost positive that the aspects of an OS that I consider better will in some to many cases be different to the aspects you consider better and even more so for an adult that just bought a computer so they can 'email and go on the web'.
I honestly have never understood why people feel the need to start competitions about these things...use what is 'better' for you. If that happens to be linux...great. If that happens to be Solaris or FreeBSD or Mac OSX or Windows or whatever...great!
No-one needs to give you a reason to spend $199 per computer, no-one is making you buy WinXP, if you don't want it, don't buy it. The fact you can pipe the output of one command to another is great...but my parents (as an example) don't know how to do it and if you ask them, they don't want to know either. WinXP (from what I have seen) will be perfect for them (and the majority of users for that matter I believe). That is what is 'better' for them. They do no want to download and compile their operating system, they want to go about their business so they see their computer as a tool not a struggle.
More 'advanced' or power? users as some people have named themselves here need to do more than send emails, surf the web and occasionally write a document. For those users WinXP may or may not be the 'better' operating system. So why do you need to compete? Why are you under the impression that there can only be one OS which is the 'best' no matter what task you may need to perform? Doesn't the fact that we currently have so many different OS' tell you that no single OS is 'best' at everything? Linux isn't best at everything, neither is Windows or any other OS.
And if you want to know why I use Windows 2000, it's quite simple. There are no applications under Linux that compare to the ones I use in Windows. What applications you ask? Well the main applications I use are Photoshop, Premier, Rational Rose and I use Protel (although not that often these days). Therefore the 'better' OS for me is the one that allows me to run all of these and other applications and no I don't have any need to try and run any of these under WINE or VMWARE etc...Why would I? What would that achieve? And yes, I work at a company which uses MS Office and therefore I need to use the various applications in that suite so I can share/swap/etc files with people at work.
So rather than me giving you a reason to spend $199 on WinXP, because I honestly can't give you one without you telling me what you use your computer for, and even then, depending on what you need out of an OS, WinXP may be the totally wrong OS for your needs! How about you tell me why I should run Linux as my primary OS? I see it as a hobbists (spelling!) OS. There's no reason why I would choose Linux over FreeBSD for instance.
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|Remember all those times hot air was blown up your a** by M$ on every Windows release being "A better, stablier, milestone in Microsoft's***ory..." ? Remember todays "blue screen of death" ?
It's that ADDITION to M$'s WINOS products, that allow them to rename the same crap and sell it for more. Frustrated consummers are their best customers. They would be out of business if they designed a Linux stable system, so don't EVER expect them to EVER go there, stable that is. It's simply a matter of economics. They've beaten Office to death, see the HORRIBLE sales for XP, the over-priced, over-hyped crap.
In the real world, XP will deteriorate and she-it out like every other over-rated and over-priced M$ OSin the standard two years. Windows is their MAIN flow of doe, so they MUST continue to release a "new version" every two years. For that to work, the OS must deteriorate to a point that M$ fish (consummers) will go after the new better, shinny tackle that M$ is selling. Again, it's simple economics.
So to the fish out there, see you in two years for the "new" OS; Neptune! "Personally coded by Billie!... An illegal rip off of FreeBSD! Better than it was before, stronger, faster, shinnier... blah, blah, blah!"
I laugh to myself, but I can already hear the hype and see the dog and pony show for the next OS.
Bottom line ... same she-it, different colored box.
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|I agree that most MS products are way overpriced.
However they are the best products out there. Far better than Linux ever will be. XP will be the best operating system Microsoft has ever put out, mark my words.
Its VERY stable.
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|I should also add, while I love XP. I don't like the activation crap. I'm sure there will be cracks out for it.
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|If you are getting BSOD's with an NT based os then you should consider examing your system. The problem more than likely is between the keyboard and the chair. So you're saying MS should of stopped at Win95? Maybe 3.11 or NT 3.51? Deteriorating huh. On that note then we should all still be driving a car pre 1940's. It's so absurd to actually think that we might possibly be able to evolve.
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|I take it you don't use windows update, hell you probably don't even use computers, did'jya post that with a webtv box? Hmmmmm .. .. NT crashes, it is only stable if you keep it as out of the box as possible (read, minimal 3rd party drivers, and NO APPLICATIONS) .. Who am I to say? You don't want to go there .. Hell that wonderful windows update service (another fine example of a service that just doesn't work) caused my Win2K server to crash because it tried to install a device driver I told it I didn't want, the only fix? REINSTALL ..
-8vO
"Windows, the choice of a newbie generation"
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|All that is fine and dandy, but I want to be able to do more with my machine that worry about telneting in and checking mail. Most mail nowadays has a web interface anyway. If it dosen't Yahoo mail can check other pop mail. 90% of home users don't worry about rlogin or multiple desktops. If they knew that much services like AOL wouldn't be in business because people would be smarter than that. When am I ever going to need to restart my mouse service?? It's never locked on me.
Wine is a great program in theory. It's also a great accomplishment if even one piece of software works on it. But a lot of the software I tried dosen't work on it. I have some state of the art digital video editing software, more advanced than any free software I've seen, Wine just can't emulate it, and if it did, it would be a** slow. Linux is a great OS, don't get me wrong. But it's either an overkill in some areas or just dosen't meet my needs in others. I know I'm not alone here either. But thanks for the well thoughtout response, I appreciate it.
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|You can do most of that stuff in NT w/o a problem.
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|Like what? You can telnet to a server down the street, realize that a proggy isn't installed on it, export your display, fire off netscrape (oh yeah, win box) fire off IE (which displays on your system) download the app, and install it all over a shell?
I'd LOVE to see that .. even with remote administration mode in 2000, it's not like exporting a single app ..
So, most of what stuff?
-8vO
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|Why tolerate crap? I won't... Even with a crack. I'm not the criminal, M$ is.
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|ok i dont know much about Linux but i know quite a bit about Windows.
just incase anyone here didnt know this you can easily restart the GUI in Windows 2000 by doing the following:
load taskmgr (ctrl-alt-del and clicking task manager)
then go to the "processes" tab and locate "explorer.exe" now end the task and the GUI will shut down, all u will have is the back ground!
now you can close task manager and have nothing! just press ctrl-alt-del and load task manager again, this time press "file-RUN" and type in explorer.exe and instantly your GUI is back with all the changes made
jsut a little tip for anyone not knowing :)
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|That doesn't restart the GUI, it restarts explorer, to restart the GUI you have to quit windows to a command prompt .. NT/2000 You can't do that..
Windows -1
-8vO
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|Agreed ..
-8vO
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|>
Excuse me, Aitvo... but what exactly is your impression of what constitutes Windows 2000's GUI? Just to refresh everyone's memory, GUI stands for Graphical User Interface... that is precisely what Explorer.exe is. Explorer.exe contains the Windows shell which enables the user to accomplish most tasks that need to be done (launching processes, managing the file system, etc.).
I mean don't get me wrong, I have very much enjoyed reading your posts, and everyone elses too. I just couldn't let this particular post by you go by without trying to correct or at least clarify what you meant.
Actually now that I am thinking more about your comment it sounds like you are referring more to the entire graphics subsystem rather than the "GUI". The GUI is explorer.exe which can be easily restarted as hellahard said, but your statement would be more accurate if you specified the graphics subsystem. If you wanted to restart the entire graphics subsystem you would need to restart the machine, but I'm not sure why one would need to do that. Possibly changing the video card driver would cause 2000 to need a reboot? I'm not sure.
Anyway, just wanted to clarify your remarks.
alanfeld1
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|bottom line is, windows does what people needs it to. unix does what people dont need and in a LOT of situations these days it doesnt do what people do need it to.
Im not going to waste my time shooting down most of your arguments again, but I will just say that when apps crash in w2k they dont crash the whole gui (unlike quite often in linux) - I have never in about two years of using w2k had to reboot due to an app crashing.
w2k does what I want, it does what all my clients want. as long as people use good quality drivers and apps, it does what all those huge corperates need it to do that are replacing all those hp ux and other unix boxes :)
unix (apart from linux) is dying, I know its hard to deal with knowing in another 5 years microsoft will have killed off everything you are an expert in but im sorry, you have to come to terms with it at some point!
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|its not crap. M$ arent criminals - well not by american law anyway, if americans have a problem with that maybe they should reconsider how wonderful their country really is?
XP is powerful, and takes windows to yet another new level - which linux and all other unix based OSs will play catchup with over the next year.
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|What are you talking about, what part of Illegal Monopoly don't you understand? They *ARE* criminals, it's been proven in court, and was continued at the appeal ..
M$ == Criminals, perhaps only Criminals use M$?
I've heard that Linux users are pirates, why not?
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|Yes, I was referring to the graphic subsystem, it doesn't require a reboot on unix machines, and M$ hides it from you so well that you can't even see what resources it's using .. I can see exactly what it uses on a unix system, and if it's out of whack, I can kill it off, and start over without a reboot .. Win users can't ..
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|uh, yes you can change the gateway and various other things in win2k without rebooting. better check your facts first...
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|My bad, you are correct it's not the gateway (I wasn't near a 2000 server when I made the post), it was the nameserver .. Try it, edit and change a nameserver, now tell me, why should it have to reboot?
changing nameserver= in /etc/resolv.conf on unix is instant ..
-8vO
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|Hey, anytime you wanna compare companies and resumes, let me know. I know for a fact you can't compare, so you better have something really special on that resume before you open your mouth again. 230 Linux boxes, I have 230 solaris boxes on one floor, not counting the other two floors or the multinational locations....
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|How's
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|LOL yeah .. ..
Under 20 in the Fortune 500? Hows about under 10?
NO?? sucks to be you ..
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|Got a name to back that up?? Hell I can write fortune 500 too....
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|If you look, in Task Manager, it shows every single process running, and if you add up the amount of RAM that each process is taking, it matches that of how much it reports in how much Physical RAM is being taken up.... I hardly call that hiding it.
And one more thing, in Whistler Server, you don't even need a GUI, you can run it in a headless enviroment (no user interface at all), and to config it, you just use a remote admin tool (like Terminal Services).
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|ah yes, but as punishment should be relative to the crime, and as the punishment for microsoft now looks like a little slap on the hand and a very small fine...... doesnt seem like they are anywhere near the criminals you are trying to make them out to me. im sure in relative terms you have broken laws far worse. slander being one?
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|You can't slander a gazillion dollar corporation and you can't slander a celebrity. They are in the public eye. Not getting into the law about it now however.
And I for one, have never violated the bill of rights like M$ has.
What is with all this Activation M$ Radicalism?
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|I still dont like activation, or threats like, "Nobody Rides For Free", that rolled into office lately. You know, the the friendly letter's of licence compliance from MS. Brian Davidson, keep up the good posts, at least your posts are interesting and real. :) I swear, some of these people make post's looking at a script. LMAO!!!!
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|I have had to call the clowns at Microsoft 3 times in the past week over my Win XP turmoil, and this makes me mad, I paid over $500 for this office XP and can’t stand making phone calls to reinstall it on my computer. If any one wants my copy, they can have it I’m going back to office 2000, and windows 2000,
http://www.h8teiris.com
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|I wouldn't even use it for free. I don't care if its the best Office ever. I don't support spyware.
Things like this need an open standard file format anyway.
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|Can I run koffice on it? .. OOOOR Can I run elite on it .. OOOOOR can I run WindowMaker on it? .. OOOOR Can I run XDM on it?
heh
-8vO
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|"No, but you CAN run your lips over my OS."
-Microsoft
BillyG and his Damned tough love tactics.
Your best bet at this point is to suck and bite.
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|Sorry, I get on my knees for no one .. It's a USELESS O/S at an OUTRAGEOUS price that I can REPLACE with a BETTER product for LESS MONEY or even FREE..
Linux - "Just Think .."
"baaaaaa" - 93% and shrinking ..
-8vO
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|Oh, Aitvo. Just when I was thinking everyone here was a PR robot you come along with your common sense and your fancy ways... Oops, I spoke too soon, here comes CPUGuy.
I should ask you: What Linux should I use? I have been stocking up on linux CDs and FreeBSD because there is no way I will support this cracktivation. BillyG is going down!
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|I've been a loyal RH customer, I've tried Mandrake, Caldera, and Debian, and I've been happiest with RH .. I also Use FreeBSD though ;-)
-8vO
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|Oh, I forgot to tell you. I get on my knees for only one man, Judge Judy. She fills me with delicious baloney.
I'll go get RH, and I'm reading the FreeBSD book now.
10q
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|You mean Linsux?
Thats the crappiest operating system I have ever come across. Even a Macintosh is far better than Linsux.
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|baaaaaaaaa you blow gates don't you .. I have users that after a month can't touch M$ because "it's too damn clunky" maybe I should have them post here, especially since they are all end users .. Tell me, how do I export an app to a remote display on an M$ box? That's what I thought .. Now be a good sheep, and head back to your flock ..
-8vO
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|You may also want to look into joining a users group (or a mailing list) at least for a few weeks there is a lot that can be learned very quickly :-)
-8vO
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|USELESS OS? LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thats why so many unix boxes are being replaced by w2k solutions is it??????
oh you're funny I'll give you that much :)
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|~sigh~ you dont. you set up a policy to install the am on demand.
the unix and w2k ways of running a network are very different, you seem to prefer the unix ways - doesnt mean they are better. its a matter of preference.
notice how you are the only one going on and on and on about running apps from different machines? doesnt that make you stop and thing "hey, maybe its not as useful as I thought. Maybe people are doing the same thing other ways now in windows?"
IF it was such an important feature, either microsoft would have implemented it by now (the rdp protocol is capable of a lot more than what microsoft is using it for). OR there would a LOT more installed bases of metaframe than there are.
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|HAHA no, I just don't have to walk to the server room as much as other admins do LOL It's the most useful tool in an administrator's toolkit .. There's no disputing it .. RDP is a joke, it's a cheap copy of ICA and it's bloated as hell .. Don't get me started on embracing and extending Winframe so M$ could profit off of Citrix's work ..
-8vO
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|LOL really? Hrm .. Who owns the internet? Not M$ (yet, .net will likely change that) Who owns the data center? Not M$ .. Who owns the server room? again, not M$ .. So what was it you were saying? OOOH YEEAAH You were saying M$ is replacing unix servers .. NOT ..
Get a clue dude ..
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|im not talking about "currently owns" im talking about which is stilly growing in popularity faster. only an idiot would argue that w2k isnt replacing traditional unix boxes in all areas.
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|this is not a Demonstration program -- its a keygen. Give the Program the code that windows xp spits out for activation, and it supplys the activation code. In other words it eliminates the need to call microsoft to activate windows xp.
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|The program does not provide any way to compute the "Confirmation ID" from the "Installation ID", which is what it would have to do to be a "keygen". The main capability that XPDec provides (for which its decryption key is omitted) is to decrypt the "Installation ID" so that you see the hardware data that is actually included in the "Installation ID".
When Microsoft generates the resulting "Confirmation ID" over the phone for you, they are using their private-half of a public-key pair to sign (and probably hash) the "Installation ID" you provided to them. The WinXP activation verifier only has the public key portion of the keypair, and is only able to verify whether the "Confirmation ID" you enter was signed by the private portion, and that it corresponds to the "Installation ID" in question.
Since only Microsoft possess the private-half of the key (it is not stored/represented in any of the EXE/DLL's of WinXP), no hacker will be able to reverse engineer it out of binaries. The only things that a hacker could do to bypass the activation is: 1) prevent the activation requirement from kicking in, such as by continually setting back the bootcount or the system clock; 2) modifying/patching the entire bootup chain of binaries to eliminate the execution of the activation code; 3) bruteforce or otherwise deduce an identical private-key that would correspond with the public-key that WinXP ships with so that you can make a keygen.
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|Actually, there are more ways to attack a scheme like this. You do not necessarily have to PREVENT the activation from happening. What if someone makes a registration ID generator, so you can always make a new one with which to 'activate' your pirate copy of WinXP.
My 2 cents.
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|Creating any sort of keygenerator program is the 3rd option I listed. However, to create a keygen that could create a "Confirmation ID" from an arbitrary "Installation ID" you will need to deduce a private-key that corresponds to the public-key that the validation check is utilizing. Searching such a potentially large crypto keyspace is computationally infeasible.
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|No, you did not understand.
I said you could make a registration ID generator. Not Confirmation and not Activation. Registration. As in the number you enter at the start of install. Then you would have a unique product id that would not collide with another user`s one. You did not include this option in your remarks. Read my post again, please.
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|I have a free copy of Office XP sent to me because I was a beta tester. Since I have activated it, I have reinstalled my OS 4 times, switching between Win 98 and Win ME (not because of office, I was trying different setups thats all) and have even changed my NIC and CD Burner, and not once has the activation complained or failed. So I'm a believer...
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|Reinstalled the o/s 4 times huh, did you format your hard drive each time? Did you reinstall office xp afterwards each time? I'll bet if you had really reinstalled 4 times, you would have reactivated 4 times .. Someone call my bluff, who's up for getting on their knees for BillyG?
-8vO
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|"I had these weirdoes knock on my front door and give me a free bible and told me they were sent from god. When I threw it out, it started to rain and my doctor told me I have syphilis. Then I installed a new CDRW drive on my XP box. The sores on my mouth are gone and Now I Am Healed! And, What is a cult?"
I'm still not a believer...
It's not a religion, its an OS. Now try your little NonScientific experiment 100 more times and get back to us. Then go look up what "compulsory" and "threshold" stand for. It might help you when reading M$ press releases.
PS - Make a donation to the Human Fund!
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|Actually, if you need to re-install your OS (WinXP beta testers use this all the time), you simply just have to copy one file, format, re-install, install OfficeXP, and then replace the file where it was. No Activation required.
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|i knew it was only a matter of time before the linux zealots showed up and tried to bash on XP. listen - if you don't like it (i doubt you've even tried it) then dont use it! its that simple.
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|Yes i did fdisk, format and install windows and office from scratch. The point was I was able to register online without having to call. It's not as bad as everyone thinks. I put a second hard drive in my computer tonight and the activation still did not complain. If everyone has such a problem, use one of the alternatives, it's as easy as that. Now get on your knees.....
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|I wish it were that simple, if it were that simple I could not use it, aand NEVER have issues opening documents (mostly notepad stuff the sheeps write in word) I would be able to import spreadsheets and not miss a beat, I could browse the web and not have to worry about not having a M$ player .. NO I WILL NOT JUST NOT USE IT DAMN IT .. I want TOTAL 100% COMPATABILITY NO MATTER WHAT DAMN OS I USE!!! so to resolve my little issue M$ needs to be kicked to the curb, you know the whole runs with scissors, doesn't play well with others thing ..
-8vO
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|But is that one file going to exist in the gold version? What if I don't want to register? I *SHOULD* have the choice not to, after all if I paid for the software, I have the right to use it without registering it ..
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|I'm talking about the final version of OfficeXP here.
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|Oh, and you don't have to register, you just have to activate your product, their is a difference.
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|But if I just paid for it shouldn't it already be activated? I know if I purchase a calling card it's activated at time of purchase, and 100% anonymous, you can't say that if you are in your home, using your phone line, etc etc ..
-8vO
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|How does the software or anyone for that matter know wether you purchased it or not? And there are many other companies use Activation for their products...why aren't you naming them as well?
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|I haven't ever had to register a product before I was allowed to use it .. This would be the first (I have no intention of using it though so it still wouldn't be the first) ..
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|I partially agree with you on this one, but why is there such a problem with having to activate it? Are you afraid that you can't pirate their software anymore? Is that the big problem? Too used to getting your MS software for free? MS just wants to make sure that they aren't being ripped off. If you've paid for your software, then let MS get there jolly's by allowing to say, ya, it's not pirated, and go on with your life.. How hard is that? I realize that they already have enough money, but they should be able to protect themselves from piracy.... It's just like a convenience store that has survalance camera's... They are just trying to prevent people from stealing their products. I don't see what the big deal is... If you don't like the activation.. Crack it. If you ligitimately bought your software, let them activate it...
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|First: It requires litterally two clicks (Yes, i would like to activate Windows, and the Ok button)
Second: Activation is NOOOOOOOOOT registration, do do NOT have to register.
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|Yep, I'm afraid I can't pirate my cracked version of linux uh huh .. 'zakly .. I'm still trying to pawn off these copies of Win95 I have that I didn't want but had to pay for anyway, can't even sell them on eBay I hear they have drones that cancel your auctions .. What the hell happened to right of first sale? .. .. As for my enterprise I don't think so ..
-8vO
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|you're pretty hell bent on Linux aren't you? :)
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|No, I'm hell bent on freedom, M$ continues to destroy it, as well as choice .. Am I a Linux user? Yep, am I an M$ user? Not at home (I do have an NT Test system since I am an SA ..) Do I push Linux? Yes, why because everyone needs to wake up to open standards .. open standards at the core o/s level is nothing but good for everyone .. everyone wins ..
-8vO
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|I had no doubt in my mind that you are a Linux user... I couldn't have guessed that will all of your previous posts. I know you know a hell of a lot more Linux than I do (considering I've got 6 different versions and haven't installed one of them). But, Winblows is easy for the average user. Software for Winblows is easy (very easy) to find. If I could run all the software that I currently have on CD on Linux, I would switch, but I can't... So I wont.
I have to go with what someone else said in a different post, one OS is not going to work for all. I'm not saying windows it the best OS out there, but I don't think that Linux is the best for everyone.
You've also mentioned all of the great features of Linux that windows "can't do", but a fair share of computer users don't need those functions (i.e. telenet to read email). I don't want to start a line by line arguement with you, I just want you to see my point.. I'm not going to put Linux down because I don't know much about it, but I know that Winblows works for me, so that's what I'm sticking with right now...
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|Definition:
reg·is·tra·tion n. 1. The act of registering: voter registration. 2. The number of persons registered; enrollment. 3. An entry in a register. 4. A document certifying an act of registering. 5. Music. a. A combination of organ stops selected to be used in playing a piece.
reg·is·ter n. Abbr. reg. 1.a. A formal or official recording of items, names, or actions. b. A book for such entries. c. An entry in such a record. 2. The act of registering. 3. A device that automatically records a quantity or number. 4. Computer Science. A part of the central processing unit where groups of binary digits are stored as the computer is processing them.
6. A state of proper alignment: to be in register.
--reg·is·ter v. reg·is·tered, reg·is·ter·ing, reg·is·ters. --tr. 1.a. To enter in an official register. b. To enroll officially or formally, especially in order to vote or attend classes. 2. To set down in writing; record:
--intr. 1. To place or cause placement of one's name in a register. 2. To have one's name officially placed on a list of eligible voters. 3. To enroll as a student. 6. To make an impression; be recorded in the mind: The warning failed to register. 7. To be in proper alignment.
-----
So then "An entry in a register" such as hardware 'hash' into a database; While not a full 'registration' that would be filled in completely (as in the case of office XP where Activation and Registration are one and the same), still falls into the category of enrollment officially or formally, especially in order to activate ones own computer.
Also "A device that automatically records a quantity or number." Such as WPA and its predecessor, Regwiz; capable of not only scanning your computer for the software you have installed and hardware, but also capable of leaking some of this information (hardware HWID, and customer ID numbers MSID) to any web pages (that know how) and placed into the www.micro$oft.com cookie to track your movements around the M$ Web site.
And before you say it: Its Not conspiracy theory, its 100% fact. M$ called it a bug in Regwiz, but don't be so gullible. Look for it your self "Windows 98 RegWiz privacy leak demo page".
Your comments that Activation is not Registration is wrong.
Your comments that Activation is unobtrusive is a lie.
So, in closing, Shut the **** up, stop posting the same thing ten times, and get a dictionary.
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|Bill of Rights:
Article the sixth [Amendment IV]
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
The key word here is "houses"!
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|Ya, so?
The key word here is "so"!
I don't feel like my rights are being violated because my computer connects to the net to check to see if the OS I'm installing is legit or pirated. Like I said before... If you don't like it, crack it or quit stealing your software!
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|Sure, I know that .. But what about all of the users that didn't know how much they *COULD* use them .. I remember back in the early 95 days before I switched .. There were features that 9x lacked that I didn't even know I wanted until I started using linux .. Mind you I am now a Windows, Sun, HP/UX,Linux,AIX Administrator .. I can truthfully say it PAYS to support Linux .. I continue to use my wife as an example, and no she doesn't call me every two seconds, she's called three times .. #1 how do I kill a printjob .. #2 I have an application that won't go away .. #3 (can't remember number three) That's it .. The answers were easy .. open a terminal type lpq then lprm the job number "WOW, that was cool" .. Control-click the application's close button, or right-click -> programs -> utilities -> Process Management ..
It's really a lot easier than the M$ wanna-bes that have never touched a moden unix would have you believe ..
Trust me, I manage both M$ and U$ systems EVERY DAY
-8vO
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|Registering a product in the computing world means that you fill out personal info about yourself, such as your name, your DOB, where you purchased the product, etc...
Second, have you EVER used the Activation process in WindowsXP, no I didn't think so. So why don't YOU shut the hell up until you have even LOOKED at it.
Personally, a window that comes up on first boot only (not even that if you are on a domain), you either click yes, I would like to activate over the internet, or yes, I would like to activate by phone, or No, I will activate my copy of Windows later, and hitting next is not exactly intrusive.
But that's just my opinion.
The only reason to be POed by this is if you pirate the stuff.
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|Yeah, you just have to look up the command to do both of those things.
In Windows, you double click the little printer in your notification area, and right click it to tell it to stop (or do it via a menu too, I believe).
And in XP, if a program has crashed, all you have to do is click the X, and it will come up with a thing saying that the program has quit responding, would you like to quit the app....
Now which was is easier? If you don't know the Linux commands, Windows is MUCH more intuitive.
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|Product Activation it wrong. NO one pirats the M$ OS. I don't crack/ don't be such a loser.
What is it with the idiots in here? Its unbelievable!
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|> The only reason to be POed by this is if you pirate the stuff.
I don't "pirate the stuff" so you're Wrong again... I lost count how many times you have been wrong at about five million. Not to mention that I already said why it is: wrong, a violation of human rights, law, reason, fair use, search and seizure, and the exact problems I would have with My set up, but you don't seem to listen because you have not a brain to understand what "against the law" stands for.
It is fortunate for all of us that we live in a democracy that has a set of rules Governing the fascist (6% of the population) and the mentally disturbed microsoft radical.
Yet. How you can wake up in the morning and look at yourself in the mirror without beating the living daylights out of yourself is a mystery to me. I guess its because you are equally lifeless and equally ugly as that collage of bill G that you drool over.
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|'NO one pirats the M$ OS.'
HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA....oh my.....AHHAAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAAHAH
That's funny. Let me guess, no-one pirates Adobe Photoshop or any 'popular' application, all of which you can find on just about every warez site, especially the lame 'web' ones. How ignorant was that statement! You excell yourself at the best of times. Microsoft OS' are one of the easiest thing to find (hence showing how much they are pirated), much more difficult to find than a registered copy of BeOS for instance.
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|"In contrast to many critics of Windows Product Activation, we think
that WPA does not prevent typical hardware modifications and,
moreover, respects the user's right to privacy."
Maybe finally the conspiracy theories can be put to rest and the paranoid people can be calm. Then again from their point of view this is probably some huge conspiracy manufactured by Microsoft whom probably paid GmbH to print favourable comments.
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|A certain benchmarking scandal comes to mind .. ..
:-P
-8vO
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|You know, I was going to consider your sweeping rebuttals but I remembered that you're a supremacist c*** getting paid by M$ to close your eyes and shake your head at any legitimate complaints calling them conspiracy theories. 94% of the online Community is against Activation. You are a minority, so shut the hell up already, You supremacist c***. We have a revolution to organize.
Dear people: Do Not Listen to anything that CPUGuy, jamwheat, and chris_kabuki have to say. Not just because they lie, are flat out wrong, and don't know the definition of a well-thought-out post, but also because they make up 6% of the retarded population that M$ employes as Lifeless PR Robots.
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|BRAVO !!
Why didn't I think that?
Damn Monopoly Sympathizers ..
-8vO
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|"94% of the online Community is against Activation."
Where did you get these stats and what "online Community"?
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|You can take that comment and shove it.
There is a difference between you and me (well quite a few, but a big one), I'VE actually use and test the product, where have your thumb stuck up your a** all day coming up with more paranoid pshycotic remarks about something you've never even seen.
Just because I don't make mile long posts doesn't mean they aren't well thought out, it just means I'm not as obtuse minded as you, I'm straight to the point, and I have no conspiracy theory in every single damn post.
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|Damn Monopoly Sympathizers .. I'll bet you are plotting your next FUD campaign as I type this ..
-8vO
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|knew you wouldn't fail me =)
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|You have a revolution to organise? ahahahahah you just made my morning, you're really are something. Hurry up and organise it.
How to make a 'well-thought-out post' according to Brian Davidson:
Step 1) Insult everyone that has not sucked up to you or agreed with everything you have said in the past.
Step 2) Insult them some more to display your own superiority to anyone who may read your post.
Step 3) Think up as many assumptions about the person as you can, remember the rule of thumb is 'Never let the truth get in the way of your post'.
Step 4) Make sure you never actually make a point or rebuttal.
Step 5) Repeat steps 1 and 2 again just to make sure.
I won't even bother saying anything to your idiotic notions that I am getting paid by Microsoft (I wish!) or any other insults/assumptions that you pulled out of thin air.
The paper by GmbH was very interesting to say the least and I'm suprised that after reviewing it (i.e. Microsoft) they allowed them to release it especially since it pretty much tells you how to generate your own keys. Maybe they didn't get the key generation perfect (i.e. what Microsoft said wasn't quite right).
Did Microsoft pay to have this info 'leaked' out? Who knows, yes it is possible, everything is possible. But why would they want to 'leak' out info on how to generate your own keys to the public?
Anyways long story short, it was nice to get a technical paper written regarding Activation from a (possibly) external party not under the influence of MS.
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|You forgot a step...
Be sure to add an idiotic conspiracy theory to each and everyone... must be at LEAST 2.
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|When we talk about M$ looking over our shoulder to see what is on our computer, we don't mean that literally. Activation is just a fancy way to look over our shoulders and tell us what we can and can't do in the privacy of our own home. How about only being able to listen to a media file 3 times before it is destroyed, can you say "secure audio path". M$ is putting this kind of copy protection into the OS along with many other stupid things. Who wants that s***! Do You chris? What the hell is wrong with you, Luddite?
Lead us not into temptation and deliver us from evil - Micro$oft.
"Did Microsoft pay to have this info 'leaked' out?"
Look who's making the conspiracy theories now.
"Why would they 'leak' it?"
Because M$ is brainwashing stupid people. You know they are desperate when they get rid of "Smart Tags" but they DoN'T get rid of Activation. Activation is important to Bill's evil plans for sending out the copyright police and remote licenses revocation, along with the software as a service plan.
The Whitepaper is smoke and mirrors. They said a crack would be out in a week, who knew it would be someone getting paid by M$. Remember the carnivore "independent audit"?
This Activation can and will be abused by M$. I don't see M$ saying they will not be selling this info to anyone. Just after they announce "third party cookie blocking" M$ jumps in bed with doubleclick, a company that has over nine trillion cookies on everyone. "M$ will not monster our cookies" said doubleclick. So why do they have to make something that is supposed to protect us then turn it around on us? Looks to me that M$ is being motivated by money and power. Way to get our hopes up and release a disaster. Again! The time-honored tradition of Micro$oft.
Ever here of the Regwiz? It will upload info about what software, what hardware, and your GUID to M$. but anyone can access your HWID and MSID off your computer. Go look for the "RegWiz Demonstration" in a search engine to see it at work. Oh, and get this, M$ said it was an accident that they were taking this info off our computer and putting it into a huge database without our permission. And it was also an accident that our GUID was being placed into word excel and other M$ format documents.
What happens when people find a way to get your Activation hash off your computer? Or what if a virus writer makes a deactivation virus? Will the Redmond servers budge? Or a hacker breaks into the servers? M$ is not going to be there 24/7. Or, what if you upgrade past the threshold?
I don't know how you run your setup chris_kabuki? Probably like a little girl. My setup would make it a pain in the a** to use XP, and I'm not going out and buying a $700 multi user license just for fair use. I'd rather spend $700 on Linux flavors or a new computer.
OS Activation is not acceptable and I will not use any software with this, just like I don't use spyware. Micro$oft best remove it or they are in for a rude awakening. Nah, ****'em! Let them die from bill's gluttony.
Zzz. ZzzZ... Time for bed....
How to make a 'well-thought-out post' according to chris_kabuki:
Spread eagle and write the first thing that runs out of your as...
No, thats CPUGuy's 'well-thought-out post'.
Here is a 'well-thought-out post' according to chris_kabuki:
Be patronizing and belligerent:
"Look at yourself! M$ never did anything wrong!"
"I will not dignify that with a response."
"external party not under the influence of MS."
"WE ARe AlL InDivIduals!"
*Insert evasive PR Robot sound effects*
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|You forgot a step, the one where I kick you ass.
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|Hear no evil see no evil. Just keep shaking your head back and forth and close your eyes like a good little autistic boy. Just like your daddy bill.
"Its all conspiracy theories"
"Its all conspiracy theories"
"Its all conspiracy theories"
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|Alrighty...if you just once ASKED rather than ASSUMED/MADE UP/PULLED OUT OF YOUR a** then you wouldn't be making so many stupid comments. I've never said that I like Activation or support it, the only thing I've made reasonably clear is that i don't like conspiracy theorists. Just so you know, I personally think the idea of Activation is fairly much pointless (it's like the gun laws that we have here in Australia, now only criminals have weapons....really useful law!). Do I worry about it...no, because I have no doubt in my mind that a 'no-activation-required' product key will be released sooner or later (especially going by Office XP and the fact that this whitepaper (to a point) tells you how you can write your own keygenerator). Do I think it's good for the 'average' user? I think the 'average' user will only activate once as the 'average' user doesn't upgrade much if at all. Therefore it will be a non-issue (without getting into privacy issues etc). For the legitimate user who does change their configuration often enough, then I can see how this might be a pain in the ass. But in the end, this is how Microsoft believe they can limit piracy. There are many other companies who also use Activation for their products, prime example is Borland's JBuilder 5 which you cannot use until you have Activated over the net or phone. (Incidentally a key generator has already been written for it). My point is you make it sound like Microsoft is the only company 'forcing' you to activate their software....they're not.
'..."secure audio path". M$ is putting this kind of copy protection into the OS'....I personally think this is nothing more than Politics. The recording companies want copy protection on all of their music.
'This Activation can and will be abused by M$. I don't see M$ saying they will not be selling this info to anyone.'.....MS is going to sell your temporary hash key which is different each time?
'What happens when people find a way to get your Activation hash off your computer?'....What are they going to do with my hash? Laugh that I only have a 60Gig HDD when they have one much bigger?
'Or what if a virus writer makes a deactivation virus?'
Now that would be cool...wonder if any of those VBA script kiddies can do it. Seriously though, I think including raw sockets without needing admin access on every single copy of XP is more of a threat than a deactivation virus. If you want more info go to (http://grc.com/dos/intro.htm), summary here (http://grc.com/dos/xpsummary.htm) and more detailed info here (http://grc.com/dos/winxp.htm). If any of this is too difficult for you to understand I'll write you a 'For Dummies' version.
'I don't know how you run your setup chris_kabuki? Probably like a little girl.'.....What would you like to know about my setup? And how does a little girl setup her computer? Do all little girls set up their computers in exactly the same way? Or do you just like little girls?
'My setup would make it a pain in the a** to use XP, and I'm not going out and buying a $700 multi user license just for fair use.'....Here's my assumption for the day (and please feel free to correct me if I am honestly wrong)...I highly doubt you'd pay for XP. And why would you even 'consider' buying it? I don't understand! You have had nothing good to say about it....why the hell would you want it!
'I'd rather spend $700 on Linux flavors.'....Why would you spend money on something that you can get for free?
'OS Activation is not acceptable and I will not use any software with this, just like I don't use spyware'....there you go then...you've just saved yourself that $700. Well done!
Oh yes, one last thing....'You are a minority, so shut the hell up already'.....should all minority groups shut up? The Linux Community is a minority...should they shut up too?
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|Rather than admitting that you pulled those numbers out of your ass, you go right into insulting people. You are so cool!
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|If you want to cry conspiracy theories and start a revolution, then leave the private sector alone. Currently attacking them does nothing for the evolution of humans. All governments lie, steal, and murder. Get your priorities straight.
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|That should read "You forgot a step, the one where I kick your ass."
You for got the "r" in your.
Second, each time you post, your maturity level decreases more and more, as shown above.
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|I'm proud of you CPUGuy, you come all this way from your tragically misspelled waste of bandwith posting (three weeks ago) to deliver another cracksmokingly retarded insult from the depths of the mentally challenged shallow end.
It is an honor to present you with "The Lamest, Most Cracksmokingly Retarded Insult Ever Uttered At BetaNews" award. The trophy is in the shape of a giant sledge hammer, and tradition states that it must be delivered to the side of your face.
And, You best hide it, PC_god is going to be pissed.
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|"knew you wouldn't fail me =)"
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|And it keeps coming and coming....
When exactly are you planning to grow up, I'm starting to wonder if you're not an 11yr old.
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|'Chris, the only thing you've made reasonably clear is that you defend M$ for everything and anything in every single solitary post you have ever made. You're a walking talking advertisement for Micro$oft. Its banal!'.....Funny, an intelligent observer would have made the observation that the only thing I've made reasonably clear is that I like a 'good' argument. I have not defended Microsoft as you say in my posts, and the fact you say I did, shows you have not read my posts or at least have not understood them. I am neither pro nor against Microsoft or Linux or any OS for that matter (although I'm not too fond of Mac OS...but that's just a personal thing).
'"many other companies also use Activation"...Not in my house.'......Who in your house is using Activation? Do you have Office XP installed? Do you have a beta of Win XP installed? If you don't then what are you making a fuss about? If you're perfectly content in using another OS what's it to you what is in someone else's OS? And if you do have one of tose products installed then you are simply a hypocrite and we can end the discussion here.
As for viruses....viruses are viruses, stop trying to blame anyone but the virus writer for them. And the latest VB style 'viruses' are a joke - but that's a separate issue.
'Let me tell you a little something about computers chris. When you go and buy a computer it comes with this thing called 'Windows'.'.....Really, I must have been ripped off in that case. I haven't received a copy of Windows with a computer since 1992. I buy my computer in parts which I put together and no, no-one throws in a copy of Windows.
'Now, call me wacky, but doesn't it seam to you that a person that is new to computers isn't going to know the first thing about Linux and probably just keep using that windows crap that came with the computer.'......Definetely. Just like someone who buys a mac isn't going to suddenly change OS because you told them to.
'M$ has the power to change the world, but bill was never taught the principles of sharing. imagine having only one standard instead of standards that only make M$ stronger. '......One standard? Wow...the would be great...totally unrealistic...but great. Have a look at the ISO standards and then the IEEE standards and then the hundreds of other standard bodies around the world. 'The great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from'.
'Software that runs on any computer, documents that can be opened without the latest version of office. Sun had that Idea years ago.'......Yes Sun is totally different to Microsoft, they would be trying to dominate the market if they had half a chance. Do you only have your Anti-MS glasses on where you see everything bad that MS does but not any other company?
'"'I'd rather spend $700 on Linux flavors.'...Why would you spend money on something that you can get for free?" Because I want to support Linux and get all the stuff that comes with it like books and software.'......Why would you spend money on that software which is free?
'Why use Linux? The same reason we live in a democracy.'....Given that point, shouldn't we all choose the OS which suits us, wether that be Windows, Mac, Linux, FreeBSD, Sun OS, or any other OS, perhaps a RT one if that is what your needs are. Should we all be allowed to do this without you telling everyone that they should have a choice as long as it isn't Microsoft? You are becoming more of a hypocrite everyday.
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|Conspiracy ..
.. heh
-8vO
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|What did I say that is/was a 'conspiracy'?
Or are you just going to avoid the issue by making insults?
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|'Oh, Aitvo. I should ask you: What Linux should I use? I have been stocking up on linux CDs and FreeBSD because there is no way I will support this cracktivation. BillyG is going down!'
Doesn't even sound like he runs linux, just collect the cd's!
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|Well, someone had to say it LOL
-8vO
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|"the only thing I've made reasonably clear"
Chris, the only thing you've made reasonably clear is that you defend M$ for everything and anything in every single solitary post you have ever made. You're a walking talking advertisement for Microsloth. Its banal! And that includes CPUGuy and jamwheat.
"you have not read my posts"
You can't denie it chris. YOU need to read YOUR posts. I have read all your posts. I did a double take and read them again. I read your posts roughly 100 times and they are all insatiably pro-microsoft anti-utopia anti-interoperability. According to you, Microsoft has not ever broken any laws, should be un-policed, and should never be questioned or criticized by anyone.
I don't know any billion dollar industries that don't need any constructive criticisms or that can police themselves from stepping all over people. Especially not ones run by the most greediest motherfarker on earth.
I'm not going to trust anything anyone says blindly like you do. You can call that paranoid, conspiracy theory, or whatever the hell you want? I call it street smarts.
"it will be a non-issue (without getting into privacy issues etc)."
It is not a 'non-issue'. Its the most evil and privacy invading thing that I ever heard of, next to the regwiz 'bug' (another M$ 'accident') and the intel ID. The best advertisement is a satisfied customer. Compulsory Snapshots and Threshold are not consumer perks. If you are a teacher and say to your students "You students are my best class" you're going to get a favorable response. On the other hand if you go in there and say "This is my Threshold, Don't piss me off or it will get ugly. Time for your strip-search." The students are going to start fighting with each other and when you're not looking they are going to spit in your food and revolt against you. Bill should have sit in on the psychology classes, dumb cheapskate.
"many other companies also use Activation"
Not in my house. I don't have Office XP, Win XP, or anything running that uses activation and I never register anything or use spyware.
My HP CDRW came with HP-EZCD-software. The CD comes with a bunch of HP garbage like the HP-reminder, a parasite that loads at startup and consumes a huge chunk of memory just so it can bug you to register every 14 days. My friend got a phillups CDRW, it came with EZCD alone. I made a copy of his. Why? Because I own the very same software, but don't want that HP crap and parasites.
I'm capable of making moral decisions on my own without the intervention of M$ telling me what I can and can not do and keeping tabs on my hardware.
"'..."secure audio path"... I personally think this is nothing more than Politics."
My computer is not a wasteland for M$ failed experiments in Politics, Advertisement, and fascism. How much bigger can windows get? All garbage that I don't want, didn't ask for, and cannot remove. M$ is the Viral one.
"MS is going to sell your temporary hash key which is different each time?"
No, its not "different each time". How could they keep track of how many times you installed your software. Not thinking before you post again, chris. Cookies are different on a much more random basis and doubleclick is spending millions to collect them and sell them. How about using this hash (or what ever) as a cookie? Or what if the government wants to look at m$ info for a small fee?
"What are they going to do with my hash?"
What is doubleclick going to do with all those 'harmless' cookies? Sell it, retard! They are making millions off of personal data, shid head.
"'Or what if a virus writer makes a deactivation virus?' Now that would be cool..."
Yeah, that would be So 'Cool'. M$ could bring the whole world to a complete halt because another of their brilliant Ideas that benefits nobody. And they could irritate all their customers to no end when they upgrade 4 things in their computer or format their HDs then have to activate again and again and again.
"stop trying to blame anyone but the virus writer for [viruses]"
Yeah chris, lets not blame the tire companys when someone gets killed by faulty tires either. Microsoft is just so entitled to ZERO liability, unlike any company in the history of liability laws. Bill Gates should make all the new laws because he is like such a genius. In 25 years working in software, he personally has made no significant contributions to computer science. He holds but one patent. Yet, as if Bill's the oracle, you jump up and down blathering about him. He is a low priest of a low cult, and a recalcitrant businessman.
What would McDonald's do if it found itself in similar straits? What would Coca-Cola do? Or Disney? Their CEOs would appear on the DOJ's doorstep and ask, in voices sugary with solicitude, What can we do to make the problem go away? But Not Billy G! His testimony shows that the corruption starts at the top.
"...
(http://grc.com/dos/intro.htm)
(http://grc.com/dos/xpsummary.htm)
(http://grc.com/dos/winxp.htm)
"If any of this is too difficult for you to understand..."
Difficult? Are he ahahahahahare! I read that s*** months ago, twot. You're the paranoid one going to grc.com. And conspiracy-theory is the catch phrase for a cover-up. M$ has a checkered past and the PR folks cry conspiracy-theory that M$ could do anything wrong, so as to evade the facts. Fake it till you make it. How many people are using Linux? If you ask M$ they will tell you just about nobody. They will also tell you linux is "viral, pac-man in nature, and against our wholesome apple-pie American ways".
"Here's my assumption for the day (and please feel free to correct me if I am honestly wrong)...I highly doubt you'd pay for XP. And why would you even 'consider' buying it? I don't understand! You have had nothing good to say about it....why the hell would you want it!"
Let me tell you a little something about computers chris. When you go and buy a computer it comes with this thing called 'Windows'. Now, call me wacky, but doesn't it seam to you that a person that is new to computers isn't going to know the first thing about Linux and probably just keep using that windows crap that came with the computer (Not because its the best or easiest). Now after 2 years when they are no longer a newbie they have to start over from scratch. Now they have to spend another 2 years getting proficient again and hunting for software and file conversion utilities.
Well this is the last straw for me. I'm not taking any more of this crap. I am switching to Linux. It will take me 2 years to get to the point where I am today and I might not be able to find all the same software that I bought like Omnipage and stuff, so I still won't be able to convert 100%. Thanks for wasting all the years of my life to screw me over M$. So long, and it hasn't been fun, and I hope you rot in hell bill g.
M$ has the power to change the world, but bill was never taught the principles of sharing. imagine having only one standard instead of standards that only make M$ stronger and richer. Software that runs on any computer, documents that can be opened without the latest version of office. Sun had that Idea years ago. Late to the original-idea scene as usual, M$ is going to make .NET and try to "piss on Java" just like they extinguished Netscape and opera. And now domination of messaging. Anything that kills AOL can't be that bad, really, but having one monopoly consumed by the larger is not cause for celebration.
And the wonderful "assumptions" that you have, that ANY person that is against XP is a software pirate is the lamest, most stupidest crack smoker idea I ever heard. You have been saying it from day one and it never fails to show what a asinine retard you are. I'm willing to bet you're all for mandatory strip-searches at the supermarket, because, someone could be stealing something, and "Nobody Rides For Free". We have to get those 5 criminals and alienate the other 99% of our customer base just so we can crack down on the 2 people who got a computer without Win XP installed. I don't know one person who has pirated Windows at all. Everyone I know got it with their computers so it has nothing to do with piracy.
Just because people are against software strip-searches in the privacy of their own home, doesn't make them Cyber Criminal Software Bandits, you friking retard. All this stuff to help M$ make out like a bandit. Where did OUR rights go?
"'I'd rather spend $700 on Linux flavors.'...Why would you spend money on something that you can get for free?"
Because I want to support, strengthen, and aid the cause of Linux while getting all the stuff that comes with it like books and software... Software that is written by good people, not selfish greedy billionaires and shrewd businessmen who capitalize over human rights.
"should all minority groups shut up? The Linux Community is a minority...should they shut up too? "
Patronizing and belligerent psychopaths are minority's too, but lets not bring your people into this.
Why use Linux? The same reason we live in a democracy.
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|I do not agree with everything MS does.... for one, I think they need better customor service, there support is horrible, and they don't really tell us the truth when something is going wrong.
I don't defend everything that MS does, hell, I don't really even defend MS, I just take what I know (because I've actually used certain products that people like yourself are bashing, yet you've never used them), and tell you the plain and simple truth about it.
You can switch to Linux, I don't really care, just don't go spreading FUD about something that you haven't even seen, let alone used. If Linux works for you, that's fine, just don't try and force it on everyone else. Hell, I've used Linux, quite a few distros of it actually, I hate command line interfaces, mainly because my typing can be quite sloppy at some times, and there isn't even a half way decent Linux GUI, and the best ones are more unresponsive that MacOS 1-9, basically, the Linux GUI's are either really cluttered and slow, or lean and featureless. For that, I don't use Linux, Windows is much more my style (I wouldn't mind giving OSX a try, I love the UI, even though it could use some improvments, and BeOS would be great, had Be continued to develop it.)
So don't even dare to say that I am an MS zealot (you didn't actually say it, but I know that's what you think by your writing...typing), because I'm not, I use things other than MS stuff, and am always look for something better to use. So quit your yabbering about me, as you don't even know me you little s***, saying these type of things is a good way to get rooted in the online world.
You really need to lighten up, you had some sort of insult in nearly every paragraph of the post, and quite frankly, that is very childish.
Oh yeah, and btw, Bill Gates hasn't been CEO of MS for over a year now, it's run by Balmer, Gates is strictly into the software, and of course, the spokesman (spokesperson, to be pollitcally correct).
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|"I do not agree with everything MS does.... for one, I think they need better customor service, there support is horrible, and they don't really tell us the truth when something is going wrong."
You don't like 2 things M$ have done?
"I don't defend everything that MS does, hell, I don't really even defend MS, I just take what I know (because I've actually used certain products that people like yourself are bashing, yet you've never used them), and tell you the plain and simple truth about it."
Whatever you nut. You don't tell the plain truth about it. Let me illustrate a few of your retarded posts, that you posted several times again and again:
"Activation is unobtrusive"
"Activation is not registration"
"THERE IS NOOOOOOOO SUBSCIPTION SCHEME FOR WINDOWSXP!"
"subscription method is better"
"a company that hasn't done ANY harm"
"WPA is NOT a difficulty"
"WHAT exactly is your problem with activation?"
"How can you say it's intrusive?"
"And no, they cannot match any frugin information!"
Thats "PURE speculation" WPA = "No hassles, nothing at all!"
"No gimmicks, no headaches, no catches."
"You can change hardware w/o problem"
"it is very unobtrustive"
Then you go on to contradict yourself with the following:
"I haven't run any betas passed the 15 day marker) and re-install is a HUGE intrusiion."
"I tend to only skim it, I don't really read the whole thing,"
"Formatting your disk isn't what stops the activation, if it's the same hardware, it will still work."
Wrong! Are you sure you are a beta tester, or a baby tester? Or just a dimwit?
"Do you actually think that MS [...] will use your information unlawfully?"
They did it before and they have broken the law several times, even lied to the DOJ. They spread lots of FUD on anything that stands in their way of making money and covering up their unlawfull activities. Do a little research. Get that dictionary and look up monopolies.
Now if you don't mind, I'm going to stop quoting all your eight hundred and fifty million inane posts (it would take 5 years to complete), to protect betanews from a server crash, and save people from your fatally monotonous and technically retarded baloney. I'll just sum it up for them: You are wrong, ill-informed, feeble-minded, and Your posts are not well thought out and you frequently misinterpret because you skim and post an irrelevant response. Calling facts 'conspiracy theorys' is the definition of spreading FUD.
"You can switch to Linux, I don't really care, just don't go spreading FUD about something that you haven't even seen, let alone used."
I am not spreading any FUD. I know how it works and I don't need to test it. I read all the whitepapers, several hundreds of thousands of posts and articles about it and how it works and I don't need to use it to know how it works. Kind of like how you can't use Linux but can coment about it however you want, with the exception that I actually understand Activation more than you understand it, and more than you use Linux.
"If Linux works for you, that's fine, just don't try and force it on everyone else."
The only thing I'm trying to force is M$ to yield to the consumer like Linux does, or any other non monopolies.
"Hell, I've used Linux, quite a few distros of it actually, I hate command line interfaces, mainly because my typing can be quite sloppy at some times, and there isn't even a half way decent Linux GUI, and the best ones are more unresponsive that MacOS 1-9, basically, the Linux GUI's are either really cluttered and slow, or lean and featureless. For that, I don't use Linux, Windows is much more my style (I wouldn't mind giving OSX a try, I love the UI, even though it could use some improvments, and BeOS would be great, had Be continued to develop it.)"
Oh, I see. You can say anything about Linux but no one can even say one bad thing about M$. And get a typing program, retard. Don't blame it on Linux.
"Windows is much more my style"
PlaySchool! Can I have more ice in my OS?
"So don't even dare to say that I am an MS zealot,"
You are an MS zealot. I'm not the only person who thinks it: "cpuguy must get paid alot of money from bill gates." "pc_god and CPUGuy... yer both annoying [...] I think you're an anal-retentive jerk."
"You really need to lighten up, you had some sort of insult in nearly every paragraph of the post, and quite frankly, that is very childish."
You need to stop being an MS zealot.
"Oh yeah, and btw, Bill Gates hasn't been CEO of MS for over a year now, it's run by Balmer, Gates is strictly into the software, and of course, the spokesman (spokesperson, to be pollitcally correct)."
You're the MS zealot, not me.
Now let me diverge to extend a good-bye to jamwheat.
Dear jamwheat,
I'm going to miss you. Are you sure there isn't something I could do to still get these hideously retarded leters from YoU!?!?
It would be a tragedy to never read another post from you. But if I
don't, I'm sure I'll hear about you and CPUGuy on the news someday after you shot an M$ basher or a penguin.
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|There is a difference between knowing how it works, and actually using it.
Kinda like, you can say that you know every spec on Shelby GT500, but you really don't know what it's like until you drive it.
Absolutly NONE of those posts are contradicting, maybe you should look up the word.
You can say bad things about MS and MS software, I don't care, it's just when you plain flat out lie about it, or spread FUD about it when you haven't even seen it, that I get pissed, it's just plain stupid, which I suppose matches your intelect.
A typing program wouldn't help me, I can tell you where every key on the keyboard is without looking at it, I've been using a computer for about 12 or 13 years now, yeah, back in the day when we had an 8088, no harddrive, booted of a 5 1/4" DOS boot disk, and had a bunch of GW Basic apps.
I kinda noticed that you didn't really respond to certain portions, this tells me that ALL you are looking for is a fight, and I won't put up with that you little s***.
I've tried and gone back to Linux for years now, pretty much tried every major release of some version or another (SuSe, RH, Mandrake, Slack, and I've even used FreeBSD and OpenBSD), I know what the hell I'm talking about, I guess that's another difference between you and me.
I doubt you even know what a REAL beta tester does.
Why don't you go have your mommy change your diaper little boy.
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|CPUGuy, you are a lier. Read my quotes, of you! All bull that you have said. All bull crap. Are you just going to pretend that you didn't say any of that Lies?
Fanatically M$ retard! You are the most irritating twit in this board. All you do is troll the board and post the same 7 word again and again and again! On every thread
How many times are you going to say "Activation is not registration"??? So mind numbingly retarded.
Do you think I got time to answer every retarded sentence you wrote...
You are so stupid it is unholy and just plain unnatural. Bacteria look upon you with contempt.
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|Did I not say that I'm switching to linux? As in, I am going to move from M$ to Linux. Do you think that can come to pass over night? Sorry, twit - Every OS is not 100% exactly like windows, the watered-down OS that you love soooooo much.
Take your pills today, for the sake of humanity.
And did you have to post this Worthless waste of bandwidth again? It looked like they took it down to me? Because you're a tart.
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|Oh... so I'm telling lies about a product that I have known and used for many months now, and you are telling the truth about it, yet you've never seen it.
Activation is NOT registration, look up, as I've explained what the term registration means in the computing world.
Finally, why don't you go piss off, this is the absolute last time I respond to one of your immature posts. Once you can type a post w/o having an insult in every line, and quit plain flat out lying (yes, YOU lie), then I may even consider to respond to it, otherwise, you have absolutly no respect from me, and I will not take your post into any type of consideration of perhaps being intellegant.
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|'Did I not say that I'm switching to linux? As in, I am going to move from M$ to Linux.'
Well then...When exactly are you going to switch over? You preach about Linux so much yet you're 'still in the process' of moving over. Have you yet used Linux or just collected the cd's?
'Do you think that can come to pass over night?'
You have been posting your 'i'm moving to linux' comments on this 'board' for at least a month now, most likely longer. How much time does it take to switch over given you hate windows so much? Will you still be in the process of switching to Linux by this time next year? Or will you by then be running Win XP and b****ing about MS upcoming OS (let's for a bit of a joke call it Win XP SE)
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|Yeah, it seems to me that installnig Linux and setting it up as a dual boot takes about 30-45mins.... not a month.
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