I still submit that in spite of the apparent conveniences of "choice for consumers" that this is nothing more than a marketing effort to increase Microsoft's cash flow. This whole effort is a developmental and administrative nightmare, and ultimately, will only confuse end users on which version to buy. I certainly know my suggestion to most people will be to simply buy Ultimate/Premium/Whatever-it's-called so that they always have access to all available options... or else buy Home Basic if they are just "simple" PC users.

I still think it would be more efficient developmentally, administratively, and economically to develop one version and to simply sell it by license and key that unlocks a certain feature set. Then when the user wants to "upgrade" they just buy a new key that unlocks the additional options without having to reinstall Windows with a new DVD package.

EDIT: It's strange for me to be so against Microsoft on this, since I'm generally supportive of the company, but this is just a really bad idea as I'm certain time will prove.

I like the idea of multiple versions, it allows for smaller footprints by removing stuff that won’t be needed. Home basic won’t be installed on high end computers so there is a good chance it won’t need/be able to run the high end graphics environment, you won’t need the domain services, removing the crap will create a more manageable OS. Business level installs won’t need some of the more advance tools you get in enterprise since they will end up being on smaller networks with extremely small IT groups. If you are getting confused by this, there is a good chance you either shouldn’t buy the OS without talking to someone, or you need Home.

As for carrying around six different discs for trouble-shooting, I see the number being smaller, at most 4, more then likely it will be 2. Enterprise and starter won’t be seen in homes and the business and home versions are going to be pretty close where the same disk can be used for troubleshooting both. In other words, one disk for Home versions, one disk for Business versions aka 2 disks

I'd like to know the prices. IMO, Ultimate should be $250 upgrade/$350 full install, Business/Home Premium $200/$300 (= XP Pro), and Home Basic $100/200 (=XP Home).
And I suppose they won't charge less for the N versions, even though they are lacking some features. I assume the reason that the N editions of XP sold so poorly was that you were paying the same price for less features. BTW, do the N versions of XP include WMP 6.4?

The "N" versions will exclude ALL Windows Media Player functionality, and are the result of the incompetence of the European Union's judgment against Microsoft. Not saying Microsoft is a saint, because I don't want to start a flame war here, but the EU's forced arrangements are NOT in the interest of consumers.

Thank but no thanks an OS which is nothing more than a mere update of the present xp and 2003 server does not deserve a mere look from my part. None of the Microsoft "improvements" deserve going through a painfully experience of going though new bugs for a change that simply means more graphic features and others with it is a mere cathing up with new technology variations in hardware.

Yeah ok. Good job researching that.

It shows that really did your homework. Really.

Nice one.

I concur with wincement, your post shows a definite lack of knowledge and understanding of the subject.

But that being said, you go ahead and use whatever OS that you feel is superior and enjoy it... just spare us your anti-MS nonsense.

if you're going to pay $200 or more for Vista, invest a few hundred more and get Windows 03 server. the best O/S MicroSoft has too offer. And of course there's Linux. SuSe Linux 10 is really good.I have both on my laptop..

Why? Vista is built on Server 2003 already. Also running a server OS is a pain; many applications refuse to let you install them and others have problems. It takes quite a bit of configuring to run Server 2003 as a desktop system and even then you'll run into issues. Not to mention that when compared to Vista, Server 2003 is just plain old.

Skyfrog,I use 03 at work (network admin) and like I said before,on my laptop.Yes you do have to have some know-how to get it to work like a regular O/S.But never had a app freeze on me in 03. And that's saying something.But hey, I'm a Unix & linux guy.I won't be trying the new Vista when it comes out.

Skyfrog is correct, though... Vista is built on the Server 2003 platform, and enhanced from there. Furthermore, I am not going to suggest that the average user do such a nonsensical thing as spend a few hundred more for an OS that offers them no practical benefit for their use. If I did feel a user needed to run Windows Server, I would suggest them deploy Vista Server (Longhorn Server, Server 2007/2008, or whatever the heck it will be called on release). My suggestions to users will be-- Vista Home for the non-technical users that are going to surf the net and play games, or Ultimate for everyone else so that they can actually do what they want to do.

Personally, I've always hated the many versions. Why not just release one version and make the price a bit more than the cheapest version, but not as expensive as the most expensive? If I'm paying $200 for an OS, I damn well expect to get the full fledged version, not some scaled down thing.

Why not just release one kind of car? Because a lot of people cannot afford a BMW and others can. Same goes for an OS. Why would Microsoft want to release just one version affordable enough for everyone, when they can release a more expensive version for those who can afford it. Also many home users don't need the features that are in the more advanced versions obviously; why pay for stuff they will never use?

Choice is great, I certainly agree, but these choices are ultimately limiting users into a preset notion of what the computer it's installed on will do. If the user buys a top of the line PC and installs Vista Home Basic, they will not be able to add Media Center functionality without buying a whole new copy of whichever Vista version supports it. For me the "choices" are simpler-- Vista Home Basic for limited PC users, and Ultimate for everyone else so that they aren't bogged down by the limitations.

which version will not crash???

lmao...

You know... cars don't crash themselves, they require (bad) drivers to do that... I suppose the same is true of computers as well-- they require (bad) users...

what can I say, he deserved your reply. I would not have been quite as nice about it though!

Unless Microsoft made the software, then they will crash no matter the user's skill level (although bad users' computers may crash more often).

All computer error is the direct result of human error.

On the contrary, my Windows systems *never* crash barring hardware failure or my own overload of a system. And I rarely reboot them as well, aside from monthly system maintenance (check disk, defrag, and full system backup) and windows updates.

Computers do what they are instructed to do.

They require bad code from lazy coders to crash.

It seems that every time MS tries to do something to satisfy a person or group, another jumps in only to criticize.

What most are forgetting is that MS has been accused of many things from monopoly to bloating, and then gouging. Now, they have found a way to "hopefully" satisfy even those(many of you in these forums) that have these issues with regard to price and product.

They have identified 6 different user types, and specifically tailored the OS to meet their demands. Though there are different ways in which to meet them, most of your comments reflect the thinking of earlier years in which they are moving away from. Everyone will be able to select/tailor a version to meet their individual needs. You will be able to make decisions for your customer/business/employer accurately without having to do much customization with the basic install of the selected version. This will greatly increase productivity and save money.

There has been great advances in the computer recently and most users aren’t even able to run a 64bit version of Vista and therefore the ability to allow these individuals(whom want) to upgrade(at least a little) to see some of the frills of the new OS. But for all the reasons that MS can think of in helping customers attain a copy of the Vista, we already know which works for us. Primarily from the profession or hobbies that we are in. What they are doing is not different than Intel, AMD, Ford, BMW, and (insert name here) – they are putting their products in the hands of those less fortunate or able, and the ones willing to spend the cash.

MS will continue to change their products as they see fit and their users demand. No matter what they do, there will always be someone who will say that they are doing it wrong(most likely because it came from “Microsoft”) and they have a better way in which to do it. Some of these people have no clue about business, but are self-centered and agenda-driven. Some just like to hear themselves rant. In any case, I say thank you and will move on.

IMHO

Not to be an a** or anything, but what's wrong with discussing alternatives?

Someone doesn't like carrying around 6 different CDs to support Vista and suggests MS distribute as AIO. Apparently, said someone needs to be shot for having an opinion contrary to MS. (even though it now sounds as though this may be the route MS will in fact be taking)

Someone else thinks 6 versions is a bit much and suggests one version with generous configuration options. Apaprently, that someone as well needs to be shot in the head.

We all know how it's done now and don't need it repeatedly explained. We're not in kindergarten anymore.

We *do* however, have opinions and suggestions. Seeing as how this is a forum on which to discuss these things, I don't think it is fair to judge people for doing just that.

But I've been wrong before...

I hear you. I really do and having an AIO sounds pretty good, but the individual discs sounds just as appetizing to a lot of people too. My point only. I hate the fact of having to purchase several individual sets, and prefer one for support reasons. I have also given up on the customer that doesn't keep their copies in a safe place. It seems as if I am doing all the work and in a lot of the cases - too much. We should be able to use their copy for troubleshooting the PC or buy another copy(because it also leads to hacking); but also to acheive more respect for the technical support field in that, if you don't have the original CD for the particular machine, they must purchase a copy in order for you to work on it. (IMO)

When it comes to businesses, they should have a copy for each PC they have the OS on and therefore a greater desire to have 1 disk to serve them all. But in this scenario, there would have to be another version of windows(AIO) to do so. Now 7 versions.

I wasn't trying to be an A** about it, point out the simplicity of their thinking. Whatever they do, someone isn't going to like it though.

as long as there is a good description of what each version contains and who it is aimed at i dont have any problems personally

ie, business edition: "enterprise solutions, network security in one complete package" [insert jargon here]

then home: "the complete starter for home users, built in firewall, anti-spyware, and entertainment pack with all the functionality of XP and more"

then a description of the new features on the back of box or something

Funny how many of you are getting into disputes over this. Get over it and move on. It's Microsoft. 'Nuff said.

What happened to the 64-bit versions. Must be 12 with parallel versions of each?

Nope, Starter doesn't have a 64-bit edition.

I'll probably get Business or Ultimate, just because those don't include product activation, which, just to explain to those rockheads at Microsoft, IS NOT A FEATURE.

Where did you get that idea? Microsoft is not going to sell a version without product activation to the general public, period. The only version of XP without activation is the VLK version of Pro and it's only available to qualified corporations, and they have to buy a certain number of licenses. I'm sure Vista will be the same; there will be two Ultimate Editions, one with activation for the public and a VLK one for big companies.

As far as it being a feature, it is an anti-piracy feature and the "rocketheads" at Micrsoft did a very good job cutting down on casual copying (mom and pops installing it on every PC in their house, and their neighbors and relatives, etc. Many people still pirated the leaked VLK version but with WGA even they are having a hassle with it. With Vista I am willing to bet it will be far more difficult for them still.

http://www.winsupersite....e/winvista_editions.asp
Scroll down to Features Breakdown.

Ok, I see where you got it from now and why you mentioned them calling it a feature. I'm afraid you've misunderstood though. Windows Activation Services has nothing to do with Windows Product Activation. WAS has something to do with IIS 7 (Internet Information Services). All editions will still have product activation however. :)

Just gimme which ever one has all the feautures and tell me if it'll work on my LT...

I dun care about specifics :P

Bill Gates: "We are now presenting... Six new ways to rip you off!"

"Bill Gates: "We are now presenting... Six new ways to rip you off!"
-----------------------------------------------
Last I heard, Microsoft was and is a "for profit" corporation. Is there something wrong with that?

Exactly, if you think it's not worth it you don't have to buy it. Go find yourself a Linux penquin to sleep with and quit complaining.

I don't find it hard to understand. It makes it easier for consumers to know what they want and they can buy the cheapest version or the most expensive version. It makes it easy for computer companies to because with their cheapest PC's they can just put on the cheapest version of windows and you can choose what version you want.

One thing I think would be kind of neat, I remember reading an artical a while ago Microsoft was thinking of offering Windows in pieces like Linux (I guess this is what their trying to do but they can do it even better). You can buy the base OS like Windows home, and if you later down the line want to add media center you just buy the media center add on. Or if you want more security for your busness and you just bought pro, you can just buy an add on to what you want to add. You start your own business and bought one version of server but you want to add more you can buy the Enterprise add on. or even better you just want Vista's Bitlocker disc encryption featrue, you just buy that add on.

This would let you add exactally what you need to your system.

Linux doesn't "come in pieces"

But I think that kind of thing is a stupid idea.

I think they should off one product, call it "Windows Vista" and be done with it.

Really?

Different users have different needs.

My grandma doesn't need the same functionality in her PC as a System Administrator at an IT company does.

I think Microsoft has the right idea. Although, I'm not sure SO many editions are necessary.

Microsoft has been really busy lately with all of their different projects, getting sued by everyone and their third-cousin, etc. I seriously doubt they would give themselves extra work without really thinking it through first.

Business and Home, shouldn't be needed more editions... maybe the Starter if it drops significantly the price of the home edition (less than 50%). Having 6 releases is plain madness.

If you want to give options, then ask at install time. Not make 6/8/12 different products.

Ok so you have you one product "windows vista" and you don't need certain things it does, but you have to install the whole thing anyway. The smaller the install the faster it boots because it doesn't have to go through so much code, plus your saving on disk space. Why do you think they made XP home and XP pro? Because people didn't need all the administrative stuff that pro has, plus it made the home product cheaper.

Look at Firefox, you have your base browser and but you can download other plugins that do different things. Or WOW, you can download different addons that game too. Why not for windows? I mean you can download different programs that do what you want. But if Microsoft made the OS in parts then they can sell each part as needed. Say you start a business and you have MS server, but a year down the line you decide you want to add ecommerse, you can buy a commerce server addon. Or say your have a file server, but you decide later on down the line you want to add a mail server so you add the addon.

With Linux you have your base software and on the cd you can add stuff as you need it. You can add mail server software, or file server, you can add KDE or Gnone, you can add python. Sure all these programs weren't written by the same company their just added on to the cd, but thats beside the point. If you can add things to windows as you need it you can start out with the base OS and as you want more funcionality you can add more. Say you buy starter addition (or you get it with your new pc) but you say "hey I want the aero glass interface" so you just buy that option. Or say you have home and you buy a tv tuner card and want media center, you can just buy the media center addon instead of a whole new OS, install it and it integrates it into the OS. Their already going to make WinFS an addon later on when its complete, why not just sell the whole OS and server in pieces as well. It would cut down on un-needed portions of the OS.

Linux doesn't come in pieces, those are called Distrubtions, that allow you to pick a version that is right for you. Microsoft is trying to do that here because they know Linux has only been around for half as long as Windows and there starting to come with everything that a normal home user would need.

I find it cofusing, as well.

"there should be a CUSTOM INSTALL option like there used to be on Win9x setups where you choose the components you want to use."(GoodThings2Life)

Well, that's it.

What is reasonable is the differentiation between "Business" and "Non-Business".

Everything that goes beyond this - "Basic", "Advanced", "Most Advanced" with "Media Center", without "Media Center" - is just an unnecessary thing to do.

But, maybe, they should offer a "Special Extended Edition" which walks your dog and makes your coffeee :-)

--- Allow me some words about the EU editions. It is not only kind of stubborn, but most likely they will prevent customers in the EU, who might be interested in a NON-EU version - for what reason ever - from even the ability to buy a NON-EU VISTA edition.

I don't know yet about this, but if they really prevent MS from selling others than the EU-versions in the EU - well, that would be not only too bad, but also the next freedom they take away from the EU peoples. Let's hope that the latter won't be the case. ---

Unneccessary to the simple minded.

Home, doesn't get any simpler than that. Are you a home user. Basic, no frills, occassional serf, get emails, look at porn.. home! Great home version for you.

Do you own a business? How about are you part of a corporate network (these people will know this info). Are you going to need additional security on your machine? Then you need pro version.

Do you like movies? Are you a bit more advanced than the home user, and have a machine that you have DVD's, VCR, and use the machine to watch TV? If so, then you need the specially indentified Windows Media center which has been specifically made for your purpose. Get the media center version.

How tough can it be? You need to quit reading between the lines, and just at the face value, its not even hard to figure out.

You aren't even being practical, putting FULL versions of EVERY product just to appease customers is fool hearty. You BUY what you NEED, you don't buy a diet pill with every vitamin known to man in it, just to make things simpler..

You take the vitamins you NEED. What is so tough about buying the version off the shelf to begin with? I am really having a hard time figuring out why this is so difficult.

Well, it's not hard to go and buy what you need once you've been offered what they got.

But isn't it allowed to bring forth wishes?

so - it's all about wishes.

But - I don'T need any "Media Center" stuff to play my DVDs or whatever. I can actually produce my own music without "Media Center".

"Media Center" is all about streaming stuff througout your house and garden. So - mainly XBox stuff to connect with your PC.

Ough - man - you got me sitting grinning in front of my monitor.

I don't know what to say.

I WISH there was an easier way for all this - and a CUSTOM install would provide that.

EDITING----------

I, for one, am a person who likes to have an overview of things, especially of OSs. I am simply curious to learn about everything possible for me about, for example, Windows. So a custom install for two versions would not only
spare my purse, but also make things a bit comfortabler.

As I said: just wishes . . .---------

But you are right about one thing: there is no easy way any longer to put every possible use of every possible technical machine and their connections into one single OS. So there seems to be only one way to go: offer different versions for different kind of machines and uses.

So it is hard for you to imagine home user who likes movies? How about one who needs security? All this nonsense is good for one group of people: Microsoft's marketing "specialists" who are trying to justify their exorbitant salaries by creating this monstrosity for the users to fight through.

Nest time you buy a TV set you will have to select between 6 versions. The one with Picture in Picture, the one with SVHS support, the one with component support, the one with integrated stereo surround sound, the one with a proprietary remote control, the one with an universal remote control.

That's what your simple mind would get to chose from as, liek you said, not everyone wants all features. Now we have 6 versions of the same TV set... how nice.

Only Microsoft comes with this marketing tricks.

But that is exactly what you do have with TV's today. Bad example, or I am missing your point. sorry

You have a TV Set (same brand and model) for each of those features? Can you point me to the page where it's shown? Thanks!

I always wanted to have the possibility to pay for what I need on a TV.

can you point me to the free tv because i can point you to some the free Operating Systems:
www.redhat.com
www.ubuntu.com

I think I am missing your point, and I am trying. You can buy a TV with all the features or with some. Same as what they are offering with the discs - some or none. It is the "choice" that you have that counts. Take it or leave it.

One disc may give you media center and the next not, one is for 32bit, the other 64. You may even get a feature that you aren't even interested in, but it comes with that model. Most likely because logic or marketing dictates that it is best bundled with it.

Maybe we are talking the same language, but I am missing something in your comments.

Why are you people having a problem with multiple versions? There has ALWAYS been more than one version of ALL MS Os products, lets review shall we?

Windows NT 4.0 /Professional & Server
Windows 2000 / Professional & Server & Advanced Server & Data Center (4 versions)
Windows 3.1 even had 2 versions (at least) WFWG and 3.11.
Windows XP / Home & Professional & Media Center

Am I missing something? Or do you all of you have a really short memory? Versions are there for ease of convenience and increase productivity.

Grandma doesn't need Professional because she won't be logging into a Domain Controller, nor will she need file/folder permissions. So she needs home. Companies need professional, for those reasons.

I really fail to see why the discussion over versions? OK 6 maybe be a little over the top, but 3 at least I can see easily. Not to mention, has everyone forgotten that 64 bit processors are coming out? So that could easily be 6 RIGHT THERE! Hello? Do you people actually build machines, or do you just sit in front of your computer, and play Solitaire?

Home/Professional/Media Center & 64 bit versions of each. This is a no brainer, but evidently you people are spending too much time watching curling and forgot that there are those of us that actually have different hardware...

whoa there pancho .... relax ....
altho i agree that there should be a few versions out there for different hardware applications i just think 6 is overkill ...

maybe 2 for 32bit
and a couple more for 64 ...

but 6 ??? come on

Pancho? you need to quit watching The mexican anymore, slick.

I am relaxed, but you people like to go off half c***ed for some half baked, haire brained scheme, when the one we have works fine, if you actually spend time thinking about it.

Did you not read my article? Can you not count?

6 is feasible. There are 2 environments, 32-bit and 64-bit (that's 2 for those keeping score)

Now, we have home users which need a basic version of Windows.

Pro users/Coportate users need a little more power and features, and a license to connect to a server (that's why they call it per seat licenses).

Next, we have the movie afficianado / DVD buff's that want a version of Windows suited for their machines that aren't basic, that aren't network, just media editions that give me everything I need (so I don't have to download it from the net later) right up front.

That's 3 versions on 2 platforms, lets do Das Mod duh math, that's uh.. -smoke a doobie- 3 times 2 =6 versions, now go back and catch up on your south park episodes, because this conversation is above your head.

do personal attacks make you feel better ???
being agressive is like e-viagra for you ??

geehz man .... learn to take a joke

You think that was an attack? Hahah.. you silly boy, I am just getting started.

Besides, you are not worth my time.

E-viagra, did you just make that up, or is PC Tool holding up que cards again?

A joke, that's what your dadda said to your mamma, when he was just poking a little fun.. she took him serious, and now look what we have to deal with.

you DO have a point right ???
so wait, im not worth your time but then again, you take TIME to try and explain things that must of us here know already ....
even if you defend MS or not, to me, all your posts are incoherent babbling
and i only reply to them because im at work, bored, with too much time on my hands :P

rijp: what is your deal? Seriously, why are you so ridiculously passionate about Microsoft's product branding? I truly hope for your sake that you are not over the age of 15, with such a closed mind to other people's opinions (whether you believe them to be correct or not). I think I speak on everyone's behalf when I ask you to please stop the nonsense. You've proved your point numerous times, and repetitive postings such as yours regress the thread as opposed to adding positive input. And please, for my sake, don't answer my own questions or reply to this, I'm tired of seeing your handle.

Woah, there.

Read my comments below.

Now, ask yourself, "Did he say to limit the number of versions anywhere?"

No?

Okay then. Take a step back.

These are *two* different issues.

1.) Multiple versions (some people think there should be fewer)

2.) Multiple differentiated CDs (some people think all versions should be on one cd)

See the difference?

Allright. Good. You may continue your obnoxious ranting.

(nitpick: cue cards, man...cue cards. ;P)

"OK 6 maybe be a little over the top, but 3 at least I can see easily"

Which is all anyone here who has taken the stance you are so vehemently arguing against has ever really stated. So...you agree?

Just arguing to what...make a point? That it's not that big a deal?

But, out of curiosity...who made it a big deal? There are all of 3, maybe 4 posts below stating some people feel 6 might be a bit much.

Yet here you are, frothing at the mouth.

Settle down, man. While I actually agree with you on the versions issue, I really don't think you need to be going postal on folks here.

It's really not that big a deal.

wow some good quality forms we have here. sound like this guy needs to get laid or at least get out of his parents basement and get some sunlight

He's not always like this. Sometimes he's actually lucid.

It's just when he forgets to take his Prozac that things get a bit out of hand. ;)

First of all, this is nowhere near as bad as it seems. There will only be four versions sold in stores, as opposed to the two sold right now (Enterprise will most likely not be sold in retail stores). Currently, when a customer walks into a store looking for Windows, there's basically one question to ask: "Is this primarily for business use (and thus the added security is needed) or home use?" If it's for business use, the person buys XP Pro, if it's for home, XP Home.

With Vista, two questions will be asked: 1) "Is this for business or home use?" This answers whether or not the person buys Home Basic/Premium or Business/Ultimate. Second question: "Do you want Media Center capabilities?" This results in Basic/Business or Premium/Ultimate. That's it! It's not that difficult.

Now, Premium over Basic does give more than just Media Center capabilities, such as the Advanced Photo/Video editing, scheduled backups, and other features.

So while 6 versions sounds like a lot, it's not as bad as it seems.

Exactly 1) business or home. That's 2 versions..

Do you have a newer or older Pentium processor? If its newer, it could be 64bix, if its older, 32-bit.. 4 versions ba da bing!

What if you aren't business or home category? Gee maybe that's umm..2 more versions (1 for 32-bit and 1 for 64-bit) machines...

If you include the 32-bit and 64-bit versions on a CD of Home, Pro and Media Center, that's 3, so fine. 3.

But if you go to the store, you wont' have to rely on Homer the heat seeking butt plug sales guy to tell you which is which, they are all nice and neat, spread out.. each version CLEARLY labeled, otherwise you won't know what you are getting.

Easy there, killer. You've just turned my two questions into four! Also, each of the 5 main versions of Vista (not including the Ns or Starter) will be able to install on either a 32- or 64-bit platform.

Does this mean Windows Vista will include a native 64-bit version in the same box as the 32-bit version? Or will the versions of Vista you're referring to just be made up of 32-bit code that runs in legacy mode on AMD64 processors?

why not sell one home edition and let the consumer decide what they want to install instead of 3 different versions to confuse the issue?

That is confusing the issue. 3 boxes sitting on the shelf targeted at a certain user, is MUCH easier to sort out, then when you get home and the windows comes up and asks what kind of user are you? How would the avg user know? They wouldn't. But at the store, its already CLEARLY labeled, ready to go, sealed for your protection, and all you have to is grab the one you need.

How is that confusing? Are you a home user? Pick up the green box. Are you a corporate, power user? You need the blue box.

If you like movies, and have a media center PC (you know who you are) you get the silver box.

I don't see the difficulty here.. you are making way too much out of this.

"...you are making way too much out of this."

Sounds like someone else I know. ;)

I hope that the ultimate version will have everything! I would be such a pain to chose between home and home premium-I mean choose without media center capabilities, or choose with media center. And what if I want better security at my home? Then they should make a 'Home Buisness' version. Ironic isn't it?

To be honest, I am very excited about this new OS Launch! I mean c'mon man! I've been waiting 5 years for a New Windows OS to crash!!!! :P

Sheesh when will MS start a beta for Vista? I want in already!!

They started it last year

But it isn't widespread like previous windows betas.

I been in every beta since Windows 98, so I'm wondering why I haven't heard anything.

Is it still betareq@microsoft.com ?

I beg to differ, you are not paying attention. Visa (previously known as Longhorn) was very well advertised. Where have you been? Did you just get a computer for christmas?

Great one rijp!!
Hackers of the world unite

I feel sorry for the sales people in a retail environment. Imagine having to explain each difference to computer illiterate customers. I have worked in a retail environment, and even when you tell them which version they should buy, they always still want to know what the difference is between the different versions. What a nightmare!!

I agree...I already Hate having to explain the Differences between Home, Pro, X64, and Media Center...

Exactly my point below....

Product knowledge is the key to ANY sales environment, not just OS versions. Its their job to educate the customer. Maybe you have not worked in retail, but its not that difficult, ESPECIALLY when you get hired, they ASK if you are familiar with these products. You shouldn't be working in a place that sells hardware and software if you can't properly identify the differences, otherwise what are you selling?

customers will be returning products, because idiots don't know how to sell or know what the differences are.

Again, from a previous post, you people are picking on MS, and it needs to stop.

EVERY product line has multiple types, memory, hard drives, flash drives, cameras, video cards, so an OS is NO different, what's the deal?

Its not a nightmare, its called job security. I suppose you go into circuit city and say "I want a TV, and they just bring it out to your car?" You have to be kidding me. You want options, HD, DLP, LCD, big, small, widescreen, not widescreen, does it have cable, what about Component inputs, how about DVD connectors, optical connections, the list goes on and on..

and OS is the CORE of your system, you NEED versions to properly configure your system, you don't just throw Windows 2003 server on your box, without knowing what you are doing.. well maybe you do, then I spend hours wading through stupid posts on the net on how to configure doom in Windows 2003 server, because its not supported, because some dimwit was told (incorrectly) its more powerful to run server on a desktop to play games..

Maybe you were a poor retail sales associate.. from your post, I am guessing you know even less than those so-called illiterate customers.

Hate or incapable? I can explain the difference, its very easy...

You are impatient, and evidently you dont' WANT to take the time to learn. Pathetic.

And labels say everything.

HOME! What does that say, umm.. gee, maybe its for HOME users? Damn that was tough.

PRO! (abbreviation for professional) Gee, maybe that's more suited for..umm..whats the term.. yeah professionals!!!

MEDIA CENTER. Take a moment, look at it, figure it out.. what's a media center? Gee maybe that version could be slanted for MEDIA CENTER machines, yeah that's real tough to see the difference.

All due respect, but I've worked retail (10 years ago), and they never asked me if I was familiar with the products we were selling, nor did they provide training. I had to learn to BS really quickly though, so I could explain why a 900MHz phone was better than a non-900MHz phone ("well, you see, because it's faster, it changes channels quicker, which means less interference" *grin*)

Why do you have to insult this guy?

"I am guessing you know even less than those so-called illiterate customers."

Is he not entitled to an opinion?

You could very easily have stated your opinion without throwing a tantrum.

This isn't grade-school. We're not on a playground. You don't get to be the school bully anymore.

Shouting and insulting people isn't going to get your point across any better, it's just going to make you look like a hyperactive, ranting, nut-job.

Yeah, versions are there to make things simpler. It's true. Why would a home user want the "pro" sharing and security features? It would only confuse them beyond necessity. Why would a business user need Media Center ability? They wouldn't.

See? Easy to explain. Didn't have to resort to insults or yelling. :)

Cheer up, man. The world ain't all bad.

"You are impatient, and evidently you dont' WANT to take the time to learn. Pathetic."

You are judgemental, rude, self-righteous, and apparently can't be bothered to even "act" human. Pathetic.

Like it? No? Then try, just try, to tone down the agression a bit.

Please.

i'm disappointed that there still is (for all intensive purposes) a windows media center edition. i really wish they'd just package it and not charge more ... ah well, guess it's greedy of me to expect more for free ;)

i guess i can still say "damn the EU" for making it even more confusing with two extra versions. yay.

The EU will be yet another downfall of Europe.

I'm getting Ultimate Edition!

Not legally yuo're not. If you think Office's expensive...its's gonna cost more than an entire top computer system.

...

I know the business reasons behind it, but I still can't help wishing they'd just offer the OS on one media with different install options (your six "editions").

I hope someone comes out with an all-in-one DVD. I can't imagine having to carry around 6 different versions of Vista just to do my job.

What a PITA.

"I know the business reasons behind it, but I still can't help wishing they'd just offer the OS on one media with different install options (your six "editions")."

That's what they're doing. If you get a lower version, all you'll need is a key to unlock the Ultimate eXtreme l33t Edition.

agree 100 % ....

i guess by this they're mixing both old and new ideas .... just like in the good ol days of win95 where you had to carry 12+ floppies ... this seems to be the case again ... altho instead of floppy we will carry CDs ....

Exactly what I was saying, and agreed entirely.

From what I understand, the image install *WILL* include everything. The user will have the ability to upgrade their OS via serial key that they can purchase over the phone or through the internet. Once the upgrade serial key is entered, the OS activates the extra features.

Or has Microsoft changed its mind?

So how is installing a CD with 1 version, yet 6 different packages any different then simply removing the complication from the outset. You are forgetting that higher versions are a higher license, therefore more money. so if they include ALL versions on 1 CD, that would encourage piracy, because your buddy says hey, give me your CD so I can install home, since you aren't using it..

Giving ALL versions on one disc isn't going to make it any simpler, than it is for people on a website giving them all these options for what they can choose. Home users get home versions, and when they install, it won't ask them questions like domain server, email server, how would you like to setup security, it just installs with minimal input/

If you take a CD and install it, its going to ask a bunch of questions, that people STILL won't understand. Like wading through a voice mail at a corporation, press 1 for sales, 2 for support, 3 for general questions, 4 for company locations...blah blah blah.. its too much.

1 CD for EACH version is sufficient, evidently no one in here has ever run a business before, because THEN you will understand why it works this way.

It has NEVER been that way. You install an upgrade professional in place over an inplace installation of Windows, OR have the CD to PROVE you own a previous copy.

During the install default features are installed, that's why they are called "default". If you just click the next button a hundred times you will get what the defaul install includes, and you are too lazy to select from a list of things you don't need.

That's not how its worked in the past, but that is the way Microsoft is saying its working this time. I know I've seen it somewhere.

Piracy?

Give me a break, the media doesn't affect it in the least. Vista will be leaked on the net no matter how it's "packaged".

Saying it can only work one way is also lame. There is always more than one way to do things, and they way it's done is *never* the best. (Yeah, even if it's *your* way...no-one's perfect)

For instance:

Have the key determine the install. Don't force them to choose. If the key is different based on "edition", then they don't need to choose the edition, hell, they don't even need to know the CD contains multiple editions. Just enter the key and the install will know what to do.

Simple? Easy? Could Grandma do it? You bet.

Why waste money on extra media for seperate edtitions when 90% of the code is *exactly* the same?

Why...to make people upgrade, of course. To make more money. If you think otherwise, you're fooling yourself.

I had not heard that until someone here recently posted that.

Anyone got a link for verification?

Edit:

sounds like the version you describe would create the desire to crack the CD to get the better content. A practice that MS is trying to move away from.

I think it would be a smarter move for them to offer the different discs, then on full version with install options. I can see an argument by some stating that they bought the CD with the content and therefore it belongs to them to do as they want - install or not.

Uh, I wasn't talking about installing the latest iteration of Windows over the previous generation (ie Vista over XP).

I was talking about installing a basic version of Vista and then upgrading Vista to a more advanced version by activation- no reinstall needed (ie Vista Home Basic to Vista Business).

Refer to this article:
http://www.crn.com/compo...tml?articleId=175802311

Dude, calm down. You're going to give yourself a heart attack.

If you didn't know already, there's talk that Microsoft WILL include all of the different versions of Vista on one disc. The difference being that the serial key included will determine what will be installed.

Read my post below.

Sounds yummy.

MS actually delivering on my fondest desires?

For their next trick are they gonna buy me a pony. ;)

Same excuse trhey use now anyway. It's not going to deter piracy.

So they'd be creating ineefective waste at the cost of pleasing many customers (many of whom know this could have been done since Win2k).

AIO DVDs for Windows OSes have been around as long as DVDs. Many of the files (the majority of them, in fact) in XP are exactly the same in both Home/PRO and MCE versions, so one could assume there would not be a huge increase in the amount of space needed to create an AIO CD for Vista.

I think it's a great idea. This is something shareware developers have been doing since the beginning.

It's still too early to be absolutely sure, though. We'll know when Vista ships.

It would be the best way to do it IMO. Then we don't spend hours looking for the right disc. Just grab a Vista DVD and go to it.

There *will* be a keygen...probably before the damn thing's even released. How they package it (all on one, or many on many) does nothing to deter piracy. Never has, never will. (hell they make their own AIO DVDs anyway once they crack it)

Time will tell. Hopefully we'll get something definitive before the release.

There already is a keygen. =/

I said before. :P Never said how soon before.

5 versions too many, if you ask me... I don't understand why it can't just be Windows Vista, plain and simple... one product, all features... and when you first install it, there should be a CUSTOM INSTALL option like there used to be on Win9x setups where you choose the components you want to use. Microsoft says they keep making setup easier, and they're right... but they sure aren't making it convenient without going through their deployment hoops. This is why admins, like myself, rely on system images!

$$$$

Need I say more?

if you had half a brain in your head, you'd realize most consumers end up better off. microsoft could strike the home basic product altogther and charge everyone more cash for the wmc premium edition.

not every company has hundreds of computers to manage or a sys admin for that matter.

OK, genius, so other than the fact that Microsoft can charge more for "advanced features" (which was a "duh" kind of response anyway), why can't they just sell keys and distribute one media? Originally this was discussed for Vista and they changed their minds.

Your method, however, creates a marketing nightmare for users... If I want a "Media Center PC" on a large network (i.e. college network or business), they MUST purchase the "Premium" (Ultimate?) version to have ALL the features... at which point, they end up spending more. If I buy Vista Home originally, I have to buy a whole new copy to get the added functionality for the network... but the XP Business won't have the media center extensions... thus the need for Ultimate. Likewise with a Tablet PC that is built to include media center features.

PC_Tool answered the obvious reason without the insult-- money. It was a no-brainer, rhetorical question, but there's no reason they can't just create one media and sell license keys as an "upgrade" to unlock the added features without buying a whole new non-upgrade version.

are you actually thinking about what you type, or do you just randomly put things down in writing?

Here, let me give you a CD with a Professional license, which also includes the basic version, and the network version. Now you have 3 versions of a software, that with a key you can simply install them, and you don't have to buy the media.

If you go to the store, and you don't need Home, you want Pro version, why are you buying media center and home then? Buy what you need, do you go to home depot and buy the 200 piece mechanics tool kit to just buy a couple of screw drivers? you are paying 100 bucks for 195 pieces that will never see the light of day, so fine, we can charge you 500 bucks, you only install the 150 dollar version, and you just WASTED 350 bucks, I am not an economnics major, but that's not real smart there, mr. wizard.

OMG! the voice of reason.. at lest EVERYONE hasn't lost their mind..

Did all these other people smoke the same bong this weekend or what...

Because, Genius, it cost money to produce software. They are giving away FULL versions of a product on a CD, its WAY too easy to break a key and get the software (already in your possession) and you don't have to buy it.

Your ideal situation is compounded by the fact, that piracy and theft of software is NOT under control, or maybe you missed 60 minutes.

Giving away a product and putting in the hands of the "duh" consumer is not the brightest idea. Not to mention the "oops" scanario when grandma goes to install Windows home, and she clicks the first one that comes up, which was the media center version, and her key only works for home.. and she is truly frustrated that her key doesn't work despite the fact that she typed everything perfect.

Get the media you paid for, personally, I don't want people having access to full versions of software just because it would be "easier" for you to pirate..

I know what your stance is, and MS, Adobe, and other companies see it that way as well. Its too easy to give away a copy of a software, even if it does take a key to unlock it. You want the pro version BUY IT. You want Media Center, BUY IT.

You don't get all the versions and pick which one you want, that isn't even prudent and its a management nightmare. You get the version you paid for at the counter, PERIOD, Genius.

I fail to see where it says anywhere that they should charge the same amount for all versions in any of the posts above your reply.

But thanks for the insult. It did *so* much to validate your needless argument.

Ah, yes. jump to the support of someone who can't read because they seem to disagree with the same people you do.

Nice to see you're still a bit over-zealous. I'd hate to see you lose that entertaining quality.

Your whole argument revolves around piracy.

It's going to be pirated anyway.

I know... everyone's a pirate, so make everyone suffer the consequences, right?

It would actually *make sense* to distribute the Vista code on one CD and have it distinguish it's install based on CD-Key entered, but since we're all pirates, it would be a "Bad Idea™".

Thanks for joining the argument on the side of the good folks from RIAA and the MPAA. Nice to know we're all equal. We're all evil conniving theiving pirates mind you, but at least we're equal.

"You don't get all the versions and pick which one you want, that isn't even prudent and its a management nightmare. You get the version you paid for at the counter, PERIOD, Genius."

You buy the CD, you get the Key for the verion you want. The key is used by the install to determine which "edition" gets installed. How is this more of a management nightmare than 6 different CDs?

You still get the version you paid for.

Funny how that works, eh?

I think if they want to get it in the hands of everyone, they needed to break it apart like it is. It can work very effectively to their advantage, and only give those features that the user wants. Buying a full "Windows Vista" could make the product very expensive and keep users from buying. This move allows for everyone to attain a copy, and the ones that complained about the cost in previous XP version(therefore hacking it) can not use this excuse.

Making it more available will curb the need to copy and or hack.

Good business thinking.

IMO

I have seen this on the Microsoft web site for months.

you get a cookie. yay you.

Way to go sletz, you're so awesome.

slentz ... wow ... im impressed ....
i should look at you from now on as my mentor ....

I am just saying that they are reporting old infomation.

Every site is reporting old information then, you win for being the only one to see the info months ago while news sites everywhere completely missed it.

I agree, there is a lot of old information on here..

I think you could use one..

Old news i agree...this may help or be out of date also
http://www.winsupersite....e/winvista_editions.asp

your "cd key" should determine what "can" be installed on your system! yes im genius

maybe two editions:

home
buisness

all these vista editions to keep piracy down wont work mmkay. people wont buy junk because its affordable.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
Too many versions to choose from?
which one is best suited for me?
what if i want to upgrade?
what if i just want this feature but not this?
Do we need business or Enterprise?

That will be the exact reaction from consumers and companies. Microsoft needs to keep it simple (stupid) and bundle all the features in either Home or Pro.

Im also not keen to upgrade to vista just for the fancy look and enhance search.

Sorry, but how much more "stupid" could they make it?

Home is for home users, Pro is for pro users, mCE is for MC PCs, ... ?

Besides which, most PCs ship with it installed, and the users will simply take what they get. Stupid users don't (generally) build their own PCs. At least, not the stupid users we're talking about here. ;)

CD-key is perfect. Regardless of the number of versions. Walk up to the counter with a DVD, tell 'em what ya need, they give ya the key.

Only problem with this is when the idiot behind the counter gives the MCE user the Pro key.