With MS backing TCPA and Palladium 100%, they can keep their hardware. It's not about pirating software or music, it's about the fact nobody has the right to govern what's on *my* PC, router, whatever else I have.

If you don't know what the TCPA initiatve or Palladium is, check out this very well written FAQ:

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

Educate yourself before it's too late.

If TCPA or Palladium keeps scumbag hackers from EVER gaining access to my systems I'll be the first to install them.

It's funny that the ONLY people that are worried about these technologies are the ones who worry about getting access into systems, NOT out.

When I am able to turn my PC into a virtual Alcatraz, letting NOT ONE packet in or out without MY express permission, I will be very pleased.

Why?

So I can visualize the endless tears of morons who dare to TRY and touch MY system.

I have more experiencxe than anyone here but M$ would not allow me to touch their product.
I have tried mnany times to test software ect for them but no go. All throught that era I still told everyone MS and Windowz was ok.
I am now finialy starting to wake up and will be going Linux and any other software not associated with M$
Another group might respect and appreciate my knowledge

Stop this nerd-fideling fact is that Microsoft is big because beginners can use it, only a small part of todays computer users are smart enough to install Linux, so give Microsoft a break if it had not been for them most of you would never have get started with computers in the first place. *lol*

Remember Microsoft invented DOS which we can thank for giving PC computers a human like language.

Maybe they didn't accept you because you couldn't properly spell all the words on your application.

Well, that shows how much knowledge you have. If you knew enough you probably wouldn't post such jibbers. Microsoft did not invent DOS. Get your facts straight.

"I have more experiencxe than anyone here"

There's two kinds of people in the computer industry, ones that think they know everything but are actually rather inexperienced and those that actually do know a good share but you won't ever hear them boasting about it because they're leaving themselves open to learn new things.

Because Microsoft did not choose you as a beta tester has nothing to do with the quality of their hardware.

I was asked to betatest this router from beta, and I can say that Microsoft has really done an excellent job with this router. While I never got to test the wireless aspect of the router, I've heard it's pretty good and easy to set up. I tested the router, and boy has it improved since beta1. Now, running the final firmware (still beta hardware), this router performs flawlessly everything I throw at it, even the configuration has a Microsoft style to it. For any home user, being advanced or not, this package will work great.

Nuf said!

In advance, I'd like to say that I know there are people that will disagree with me... but that's another nice thing about this country. We're free to speak our minds. :)

To me, this is NOT, a cause for celebration. This is a cause for GREAT CONCERN. For a company that wants to implement technology to police what media content we can and can't have (Palladium), as users, scares the hell out of me. Microsoft does have the market share, but they are NOT to be trusted. I know many of you will call my paranoid, but when MS comes out with new hardware, I start to wonder how they are trying to police me now. This is NOT their job. But they want it to be. If I were you, I wouldn't be rushing out to buy this new technology. I would be worried about what MS is going to come up with next.

My vote is with Linux. At least there, I have a good idea about what is going on to my system.

Do any of you share my feelings and concerns??

Seeing where as this has not a damn thing to do with Palladium....

Second, you obviously have no idea what Palladium is, it's more than just DRM, and if you think that DRM is going to hurt you, then you need to stop pirating music and software.

I, and everyone else here, couldn't care less about what your vote is, especially since this has NOTHING to do with the topic of discussion.

So how about either post on topic, or do not post at all.

It may not have to do with Palladium, since thats software oriented, but it may be related to TCPA.

I for one do care about my privacy. Whether you pirate software\MP3s or don't is irrelevant. Would you let the feds have a secure gateway into your house so they could come and inspect it on a whim without a search warrant? I'm sure you're not a criminal and have nothing to hide, but does that even matter?

I read recently that Microsoft is trying to make broadband more accessable. I believe so more people will subscribe to the XBox Live service. I believe that this is part of that initiative.

Just an opinion/observation.

L8R

Exactly, it's actually pretty clever. Anyone that needs networking hardware for their MSN broadband, Xbox Live, future Tablet PC/Pocket PC apps can now do a one-stop shop at Microsoft. MS's broadband services pushes demand for networking equipment.

BTW, all the MS networking hardware is just rebranded Linksys anyway. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/5/27222.html

The register is hardly a factual source for information.

"but on (slightly) closer investigation their wondrous nature remains somewhat opaque. They are, it appears, badged Linksys products, and the US prices quoted in the announcement seem in line with what's being charged for those very same Linksys products at, say, Best Buy."

Is their investigation based on examining the actual physical product even though they go on to say that they couldn't purchase it because it's not quite stocked anywhere yet? Or is their assumption derived from the close to equivalent price of the Linksys products? It's called competition. I suppose under that terminology the XBox is just a PS2 in disguise.

What a bunch of uninformed biased comments! What is this? /.? I've used MS hardware for years and it's always been solid. The phone, as I remember, came from MS's research division and as a lot of products from divisions like that do, it died after a 1.0 release. Most likely it was from poor sales. MS has no reason to keep working on something that hasn't sold well.

Sure MS has done some questionable things in the past, but if you're going to condemn them at least do it on an intellectual level instead of an emotional one. You'll look less like an idiot if you do.

I agree with this comment. Microsofts uses hardware that is quite sturdy with higher end parts than other competition. As for these new lines of products, reading through the User Manuals available at their website, shows that these devices might actually be something to consider. Particularly, the wired based station MN-100, looks to be a nice competitor with the common Linksys and Netgear cable/dsl switch/routers. Most appealing, the configuration and logging of these devices looks much more extensive than the others while still including the same functionality. $79 for the MN-100 is a reasonable price even just to give it a test to see if it's worth anything.

How are the comments uninformed? There were specific examples cited. I am not real crazy about Microsoft moving into this specific hardware zone either. If they are going to produce truly decent, hardware based devices, then why not I suppose. I won't buy it, but it'll be much better than those companies that put out software based devices that /only/ work with Windows. Cheap, resource-hogging devices like that should be tied up in the middle of town and stoned. I will admit to owning an optical mouse from them because when they released it, I couldn't wait to get my hands on one. I hadn't used one for about 7 years or so previously when I used one on a Sun SPARC Station.

Guess what! You don't have to buy it! Isn't America great?

Isn't that what I just said?

Actually, the Microsoft phone died after its 2.0 release. If Microsoft would continue to support their hardware it would be great, but with the Phone, MS dropped it after the death of the 9X kernel.

I think you are the one looking like an idiot with your post. FACT is that Microsoft has did MANY questionable things in the past, not "some".

As for their hardware, even their mouse I owned wore out quicker than any mouse I have owned (the feet on the bottom of it), and I had to throw it out.

As for the phone, you make it sound like they have every right to abandon their $200 phone. Who is to say they won't do that with this router.

I don't know the features of this router, but someone here already mentioned its extensive logging as a feature they thought was impressive. Hearing that worries me all the more about this router... thats the last thing you want from Microsoft, is more logging/spyware.

I for one would never buy any hardware produced by microsoft, not only because it is bad karma but also because I simply dont want to encourage microsoft hardware production. I mean a Microsoft product already populates something like 98% of the entire worlds desktops, but at least you still have the choice to run linux on a pc, and this first step of (Networking Hardware) can only lead to other things...mainly Microsoft based architecture much like Apple.

Actually, it is my experience that Microsoft's hardware is among the best stuff they have. Their mice, keyboards and joysticks/game pads are top notch and have done some interesting things (like bringing the optical mouse to the mainstream, and I believe they were among the first to popularize "force-feedback" joysticks).

I agree with you. Microsoft I think wants a monopoly on everything, including the hardware. With this stupid .net thing coming up, they don't need any more control.

I remember when I purchased one of their Microsoft phones. What a waste of money that turned out to be... they never did support the software for it and it died off(there literally wasn't one update for it). Personally I feel Microsoft owes me $200 for what I paid for it back then.

its sad when the only thing a software company as large as this makes well are games and hardware (not the xbox - its crap - and any goodness in is is due to nvidia).

fat sweaty steve ballmer, lie like a rug gill bates, and the real brains of the opertation left in 1984 - paul allen.

the usa is being held hostage by microsoft, and i hope it and all its shareholders lose all its money. they dont innovate, the use lawyers, they steal or copy other people ip and they are shamelessy anti standards people with unstable propritary software.

Didn't Paul Allen go off to form AOL? Aren't AOL in almost the same position in the Internet market that Microsoft are in Software?

I do agree with the points above about Microsoft not innovating. I think I read somewhere that the only products not bought in where the Windows NT OSes (NT, 2000 and XP).

Addendum: Microsoft hired the team that wrote DEC VMS. So... NT isn't 100% Microsoft

Karel

I agree with RedBadger. I just threw away my $200 phone last week. It's useless. There's no support for it, no updates since 1.0 of the software!!! It never did work with Exchange or Outlook in a corporate environment. Total waste of money. I was appalled by how it was just dropped, almost like they didn't want to admit they had every built the thing. Imagine when a year from now, they do the same to all this wireless network equipment. "No, there have been no driver updates since this cards release, no it will not work with Windows 2004, but you can upgrade to the wireless equipment we are selling now for $200 a card!" Whatever...

You seem to be able to make claims, but you can't back them up....

How exactly is the X-Box bad? How is it that nVidia is the only good part of the X-Box?

I can answer both of them for you... 1) You are an anti-MS, 2) you are a pro-nVidia troll....

nothing is 100% anyones, everything has borrowed ideas. Someone thinks or something and someone else either steals it, buys it, or changes it so it is kind of the original idea but being approached from a different angle. If you want to start a flame war, truly Xerox Parc invented everything, well not EVERYTHING but they did invent, the GUI, the mouse, the laser printer, ethernet... shall i go on? GlobalView (a Xerox OS) is an excellent OS however it was too far ahead of its time, i work for Xerox and use GlobalView on a daily basis' (along with every other OS availble, inc. Mac's) and it has features not available in any of the other OS. It is a shame it can't run on an x86 system.

You'VE got to be Kidding?

And linux is not a copy of UNIX...right??

Yeah this "stupid" .NET thing that they released for FreeBSD. I don't see how them releasing it open source is going to give them more control.

And they didn't GPL it because the GPL is communist and therefore against everything Microsoft stands for, so don't pull that s***.

The Canadian military invented the _original_ trackball, and hence if you want to go back to the roots of everything about the mouse - it is Canada! In fact if you want to go to the roots of _everything_ why not say that God invented everything, or that everything is only possible because of how the universe works?
(BTW, I like Microsoft stuff, and I do use Linux - but guess what? When something in Linux really crashes... the whole thing goes down - at least with Windows the system is usable (to some degree) even when some process cannot be terminated or takes 98% of the CPU)
(I also hate Microsoft for their not-so-true compatible with Windows blah, blah or higher proclaimations)

First off, show me a single word in that entire post that referenced Linux. I dare you. Go for it. Why did you feel the need to jump on that argument? Second, GNU/Linux technically is NOT UNIX. And I'm not just saying that because it's in the name (G)NU's (N)ot (U)NIX. It was most certainly based off of it, but the code was/is completely different. UNIX was not an open platform for people to do with what they wanted. UNIX itself is owned just as Windows and Mac. When was the last time you saw the source for AIX, HP-UX, Solaris, SunOS, IRIX? And all of this is completely off topic.

"When something in Linux really crashes... the whole thing goes down..."

Eh? In the 6 years I've used Linux, I can count the number of hard freezes I've had that forced me to hit the reset button on one hand. And they were all beta releases.

You probably don't know too much about .NET, do you? .NET is the best thing to happen to development on the Windows platform. Software is developed more quickly, with less effort spent on plumbing code and unusual API calls, is easier to debug, far easier to deploy (xcopy), and is potentially cross platform. How is it a bad thing that code you write for Windows will soon work on FreeBSD, Linux, maybe even Mac? From a development standpoint, I think that is a pretty big step in the right direction. They are merely empowering programmers.

not the xbox - its crap - and any goodness in is is due to nvidia). the usa is being held hostage by microsoft, they dont innovate, the use lawyers, they steal or copy other people ip and they are shamelessy anti standards people with unstable propritary software.

------

#1. The Xbox is one of the best products that came out this year. It is the best console out there and it will set a new standard on computer/console gaming.

#2. Stop whining. Yeez.. If you don't like MS hardware/software then use linux.. and enjoy staring at your desktop, since no cool games are out for linux (just let's see.. UT2k3 & possibly doom3), unless u use linux on a server, the only cool thing you can do on linux us play Tux Racer

#3. Don't be so suburban (this goes to the whiners of the MS Phone). I bought the phone too. I didn't pay $200.00 though, I paid $89, since my local EB put it on special. I would never pay $200 bucks for a phone. Hardware gets outdated the moment you take it out the store. This sucks, but it's how things are. This is not only a MS problem it's a problem every company dishes out. Frankly, MS hardware I got that still works is my optical mouse, my natural keyboard... my sidewinder joysticks. MS makes one hell of a hardware, and if you are going to critizize them for a flaky phone, then let me remind you that other companies also make s***ty hardware, like 3com, like usrobotics, like nintendo... (Gamecube is the last hardware they are doing...).

I have sat here in wonder reading these post, noting that none on this panel have even layed a hand on any of this hardware. I beta tested this gem. With a big smile on my face, I say, "great job microsoft" The instalation was strait forward. There are about a million ways to tweak this thing to make it do what you want, Has all the features of the others and more. Again, I want to say "Great Job, enjoyed the beta"
Thank you and keep up the good work.

Logitech is who brought optical mice to the masses, not microsoft. And to those of you that brought linux into this conversation, I at no time said anything about linux but I do use and enjoy it on a daily bases and with that said I also use windows on a daily bases. But that has nothing to do with why I think microsoft based hardware is a bad idea.

I never said that it would be crap hardware, or did I say for you not to use it...Was posting my thoughts to an article so take it as you will.

Actually, i don't know why you think logitech brought out the first mainstream optical mouse because i bought my MS one when it first came out (wonderfull piece of hardware in my opinion) and it took @ least a couple months before i ever saw a logitech one in the stores.... oh and i think ms can make whatever hardware they what and if i need it i'll probably buy theirs because it 1. always works and 2. is of high quality and lasts a long time (i had 2 mice in the past 10 years and now this optical one, the next one i'll buy is probably the bluetooth one MS is coming out with in the near future)

anyways...if you don't like MS products, just don't buy them....

It's odd that Microsoft is allowed to create all sorts of hardware like this. I thought they were being kept out of the living room (ie. their WebTV product included in the XBox). It's strange to see them focussing on a router like this. But I'm sure the final product will work and will be solid.

I agree. Isn't it great that there are so many "experts" that have never even seen the product that they comment on, let alone use it?