Yes actually. :-) lol

Is this really necessary? Why update the 5.5 version if they already have 6.1 ? It isn't better for the old computers, because it doesn't slows too much down.
I also have an very old machine, and it can runs IE6.1.
Just update and leave the old stuff there.

WebRaider

I'm not quite sure what you mean. They didn't update Internet Explorer 5.5; they removed it from their site, so you can no longer download it (from them). And Internet Explorer 6 SP 1 is the latest version, not 6.1--but perhaps that's what you were thinking of. As for older computers, if Windows 98 is old, then, yes, it can run IE 6. As for Windows 95, the 5.x generation is as far as you'll get, which may be why (in addition to the fact that it comes with Windows 2000) they oddly still left 5.01 available if you look hard enough.

go to www.fark.com and open 20-30 links in a new tab/new window and watch Mozilla crash as you go through them. Unacceptable. Mozilla also crashes when bringing up popups w/o heavy browsing sometimes. IE works w/o incident.

Hmm, that's odd. It seems to work just FINE for me.

See for yourself.

http://www.fewt.com/images/fark_fud_killer.png

Waitaminnit! I'm agreeing with fewt on a subject??? I find this totally unacceptable on my part. ;)

Hey fewt didn't leave!

Why would I leave?

Go Phoenix! Phoenix is a Mozilla-based project which is *only* a browser, not a full-fledged internet browsing package (mail client, composer...). Find out more here:
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/phoenix

Just use Mozilla (feature full) or Netscape (stable), as I do!

I keep installing Netscape in hopes that it'll remedy my IE issues, but it just creates new hurdles. The most prevalent issue has been Netscape/Mozilla's lack of support for Microsoft-born rendering technologies.

I refuse to blame Microsoft or Mozilla's developers for this issue, because there are good arguments in every direction regarding Microsoft's browser rendering.

I have to agree,those with older systems running 95 or 98 have problems makin jump to IE6 others just don't like 6. MS dropped the ball again.

What about all the people still running older machines with Windows 95? IE 6.0 doesn't work on those systems. I work as a technical support agent for an internet service and many of our dial up customers have very old computers. I understand that they can still use IE 5.01 but that program doesn't work as well. I agree that IE 6.0 is the better program overall but what is Microsoft going to do for people on these older systems? Simply ignore them?

No Microsoft should tell them that it's been 8 years now... time to upgrade! as harsh as that may or may not be.

I would agree, however "if it ain't broke don't fix it" should IMHO apply to computers too. I'm kind of surprised that computing isn't regulated like every other industry. I can't wait for the day that I can go and buy any software I want and run it on any OS that I want. Just like there are standard batteries, we have standard gasoline, and no matter what phone I buy when I plug it into the outlet it just works. The computer industry needs to be no different IMHO. I want Shell, or Duracell, or Sony, or Microsoft, or Linux OS and I want them all to use the same software. The lines need to blur. :-)

Well, keep in mind that MS has already pretty much killed support for win95, and I've heard that they're killing 98 this summer--at that point, as far as they're concerned, there's no need to worry about the systems (I don't particuarly agree with this, but we're kinda stuck with it).

> I can't wait for the day that I can go and buy any software I want and run it on any OS that I want.

Any is probably a word that is too broad (Runs on DOS?)... but still, this is a great thing for the end user. Lets hope we see some big java software available soon.

This is a good thing. I only hope that Netscape would have pulled that bug ridden Communicator 4.x much earlier than they did (although it's still available on their FTP server).

This means for the web dev community that users are not able to install old browser which do not follow the "standards", making our life easier.

"And Internet Explorer 6.0 SP1 is the best browser in terms of stability, security, and reliability."

AHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HOHOHOHOHOHOHOHO!

Wait, they were serious? ;-)

And what would you say is a better product? Netscape... there is a stable product.
Or how about Mozilla... installs ok but if you actually want to use it thats another story.

Really, what's wrong with Mozilla? I've been using it for YEARS without issues. I'd LOVE to hear about your experiences with it.

IE 6 is the best explorer i have ever seen.
mozilla , netscape , opera are nice to but comparing to IE 6 they are little childrens :)
thats the way it is even if those who hate Microsoft don't admint this :)

How many tabs can IE 6 open out of the box? IE6 is not a browser for serious web browsing liking or disliking Microsoft has nothing to do with it, it's simply a cop out for those that can't form a real argument.

Really? I've been using Opera 7 since it was first released. I deleted the IE icons off the desktop after a week of use. I don't even use IE to download updates! Just go to the download page, get the files and install them. They could take all versions of IE off the update page for all I care.

Oh BS!

Mozilla didn't even become REMOTELY stable until version 1.

I guess it's not a browser if it doesn't have tabs eh?

I use both IE6 and Opera 7.01, and the only time i find the need to fire up Opera is when I go to sites that like to popup other adv windows.

When i'm doing normal browser of sites like betanews I use IE6.

The point was that it isn't as feature rich as Mozilla. It can't stop pop-ups either, rendering it useless in my opinion. There are hundreds of reasons to dislike IE, a lack of tabs was simply one of many.

He's Back! =)

Obviously they're not going to say that it's anything BUT the best browser but regardless this is a "Good Thing" (tm) in my opinion. It's always a pain in the a** to try and get people to upgrade and since IE 6.0 is a lot more compliant than 5.5 this is good for all of us... especially the ones among us that develop web applications =) Mind you IE6's XHTML/CSS standards still need a bit of a kick in the a** but hopefully that will come with time.

mozilla's full of bugs, its bloated, its slow(er) loading (yes it is, theres no arguement to be had), it doesnt support all the javascript, css properties it says it does (like scrolling properties on CSS or event handling on ready states in js or frame navigation through DOM or xml navigation through DOM... ~~~ i could go on and on how its inadequate), and it isnt as easy to use in terms of UI as explorer. It does have some key features like browser tabbing and popup stopping but there are third party applications that do this well with IE and XP lets you group windows together anyway. Their plugin architecture is very unintuitive. IE's install on demand and active X make browsing and installing things like flash and shockwave much easier. praise mozilla for what it is, not what it isnt. its a nice comperable browser for people who surf most static html sites day in and day out and dont mind when something doesnt work due to compliance with mozillas lack of in depth code support (which may come over time). its not an end all beat all and its certainly not the easier choice to use. Works great for Linux and Mac people though.

"mozilla's full of bugs"
And IE isn't? They've both got bugs what's your point?

"its bloated"
Isn't IE6 SP1 about the same size to download? How is it bloated?

"its slow(er) loading"
Yes it is. Many will argue that if you have it set to auto-load it's just as quick, my view is that it's still a bit slower... no big deal, I'm yet to be in such a hurry that I cannot wait an extra couple of seconds for my browser to open.

"it doesnt support all the javascript, css properties it says it does"
And yet it supports a LOT more standards than IE SP1 does. Once again, what is your point here? Unless IE support as many or more standards than Mozilla you don't have much of a point to stand on in this department.

"it isnt as easy to use in terms of UI as explorer"
This is a personal preference... you may as well add that it's not as pretty looking (if that happens to be your opinion).

"its a nice comperable browser for people who surf most static html sites day in"
Given that Mozilla is far more standard compliant the only pages it will not work on as well as IE are IE-specific pages. It's hardly their fault Joe Blogg decided to write his companies website with Frontpage which happened to spew out the worst looking and least standards-compliant html (if you can call it that).

Feel free to use any browser you like, I at work have IE 5, IE 6, Netscape 4.8, 6 and 7 as well as Mozilla 1.3 installed to make sure that everything works well in every browser.

I left? :-P

Some of us know how to use our computers.

the point wasnt that IE doesnt have bugs, its that IE has support, ease of use, easy UI, and is faster.

Bloated: see purpose for Opera, Safari, other ports on the gecko engine.

"it doesnt support all the javascript, css properties it says it does"
And yet it supports a LOT more standards than IE SP1 does. Once again, what is your point here? Unless IE support as many or more standards than Mozilla you don't have much of a point to stand on in this department.

point is you CANT do things with mozilla that you CAN do in IE. Tons of them. If it were just a matter of standards and not features + standards then it wouldnt be an issue but its clear that mozilla does not have the functionality it needs to do as much as IE does.
ex's again:
basic scrolling,
DOM nav,
frame nav,
filters,
CSS properties,
mouse scrolling,
etc etc etc. i mean, do i really need to go on? these are MAJOR bonuses when you're coding advanced scripts.

"it isnt as easy to use in terms of UI as explorer"
This is a personal preference... you may as well add that it's not as pretty looking (if that happens to be your opinion).

its the opinion of the vast majority.
(NO HTML! POO!)

Given that Mozilla is far more standard compliant the only pages it will not work on as well as IE are IE-specific pages.

Saying anyone needs frontpage specifically to design pages that wont work in mozilla makes you either grossly misinformed or completely oblivious. Eithers fine. Just fess up.

Im sure your mightly collection makes very nice simple pages that load similarly in all browsers. 2% of the internet thanks you. The rest of us laugh.

CSS better in IE6 than Mozilla 1.3

LOL, ever here of W3C ? Open this page in IE6 and Mozilla 1.0.2 or up

http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/

>the point wasnt that IE doesnt have bugs, its that IE has support, ease of use, easy UI, and is faster.

Right, it has the worst bugs of any software product on the planet. IE has support?

"Support"
Riight, for the low price of $245 per incident.
http://support.microsoft...us;prodoffer16a#faq1399

I'll take my chances and ask in a discussion list. I may get an answer that actually helps.

>Bloated: see purpose for Opera, Safari, other ports on the gecko engine.

Sure, Mozilla is bloated as is IE.

"ease of use"
Uhh how hard is it to type an address into the address bar, and click go?

"easy ui"
Redundant, you just said that.

"faster"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Define faster. IE is bolted to the OS so it starts faster, yes. IE does not render pages faster.

"it doesnt support all the javascript, css properties it says it does"
And yet it supports a LOT more standards than IE SP1 does. Once again, what is your point here? Unless IE support as many or more standards than Mozilla you don't have much of a point to stand on in this department.

>point is you CANT do things with mozilla that you CAN do in IE. Tons of them. If it were just a matter of standards and not features + standards then it wouldnt be an issue but its clear that mozilla does not have the functionality it needs to do as much as IE does.
>ex's again:
>basic scrolling,

Huh?

>DOM nav,
>frame nav,
>filters,
>CSS properties,
>mouse scrolling,

What's "mouse scrolling"?

>etc etc etc. i mean, do i really need to go on? these are MAJOR bonuses when you're coding advanced scripts.

Yes, please go on. I have been using Mozilla for years, I don't feel that I'm missing anything.

"it isnt as easy to use in terms of UI as explorer"
This is a personal preference... you may as well add that it's not as pretty looking (if that happens to be your opinion).

>its the opinion of the vast majority.
>(NO HTML! POO!)

Vast majority? Where are the sources to your statistics? Mozilla and IE are nearly identical as far as ease of use.

Given that Mozilla is far more standard compliant the only pages it will not work on as well as IE are IE-specific pages.

>Saying anyone needs frontpage specifically to design pages that wont work in mozilla makes you either grossly misinformed or completely oblivious. Eithers fine. Just fess up.

It must be pretty difficult to mangle pages, I haven't seen any in some time.

>Im sure your mightly collection makes very nice simple pages that load similarly in all browsers. 2% of the internet thanks you. The rest of us laugh.

Riight, it's so hard to close tags (the #1 reason that mozilla blows chunks on pages). If you'd rather not have my money because you don't support the browser I choose to use, well it's not my loss it's yours. 2% of the internet is not the small number you are implying.

If just 2% of the internet purchased from me on a regular basis, I would be set for life.

point is you CANT do things with mozilla that you CAN do in IE. Tons of them. If it were just a matter of standards and not features + standards then it wouldnt be an issue but its clear that mozilla does not have the functionality it needs to do as much as IE does.
ex's again:
basic scrolling,
DOM nav,
frame nav,
filters,
CSS properties,
mouse scrolling,
etc etc etc. i mean, do i really need to go on? these are MAJOR bonuses when you're coding advanced scripts.

IE doesn't even support DOM1, its CSS support is totally broken and IE CSS2 support is laughable, Mozilla mouse scrolling is fine, thank you.

As for IE, it doesn't support tabbed browsing, basic CSS like position:fixed or the box model. Its PNG support is broken, its XHTML support is broken, its HTML4.01 support isn't even complete !

Let's make a short and very incomplete list of things Mozilla/netscape supports/does and IE doesn't :
- CSS2
- DOM0/1/2
- PNG with alpha and gamma transparencies
- tabs
- pop up blocker
- text-zooming that works
- multiple stylesheets
- themes
- cookie manager
- Image blocking per server
- basic download manager
- Real javascript console + advanced JS debugger
- DOM inspector
- Find as you type
- Sherlock search plugin support
- secure passwords and form managers
- master password protection
- Caret Browsing
- More font options
- multiple profiles
- cross platform
- can be desinstalled !!!
- MathML
- RDF + XUL support
- Link Prefetching
- favicon in any image format
- groupmarks
- HTTP pipelining
- powerful sidebar
- fine control on Javascript possibilities
- major releases with real adavances at least every 3 months

To see what I mean, scroll down that page.

In defense of IE6, it's older than Mozilla 1.3 Maybe ver 7 will be as good. But better at CSS? Come on. IE6 was the first MS browser to even properly supporting CSS. They're newbies at it.

I should clearify, IE6 was the first Windows OS MS browser to properly support CSS.

Sorry to dissapoint you but I do not write very nice simple pages... I mearly have all those browsers installed to make my applications look as best they can on those browsers that do not support certain standards or mangle the standards. For your information I am mainly involved in writing JSP's.

The only things you CAN'T do with mozilla and can do with IE are IE-specific features.... that's like complaining that I can't add a store stuff in the registry when I'm using Solaris! Mozilla has far better CSS control than IE does, I can give you a few examples of pages if you like where you are free to load them in Mozilla and IE6 and watch as IE6 mangles the code.

You can download a freeware app (ad muncher, available here on a search) to stop popups and ads in IE.

I think Mozilla and Opera have come a long way. Tabbed browsing is close enough to a killer feature to put a hurt on IE.

What they need now is a IE5.x backward compatability mode that launches when certain javascript and or markup are encountered --- this single feature would make me stop using IE (I'll give up the XSLT 1.0 and SMIL 2.0 support even)

And yet IE dominates the marketplace with over %80 share. The users have voted.

Stuff your MS hatred and get off your standards podium.

Standards are defined by the marketplace, an RFC only becomes a standard when it is widely adopted.

Mozilla has no marketplace support.

Some people will continue to hold on to a dying trechnology based on 'superiority' claims. They make it their bread and butter. So give them their say even if they are WRONG.

I've known many FoxPro programmers who act the same way. Let them live in denial wrapped in their shell of supposed technical superiority. They will argue to their grave that they made the right decision regardless of the marketplace movement towards other technologies.

Right, now if only 2% of the Internet cared to visit your pages.

"And yet IE dominates the marketplace with over %80 share. The users have voted."

Riight, IE is included on nearly every desktop sold so I don't see how "the users" could have voted.

"Stuff your MS hatred and get off your standards podium. "

You stuff it, "MS hatred" has nothing to do with it.

"Mozilla has no marketplace support."

Riight, perhaps it would if it was bolted to every computer sold.

Riight, like you get 2% hitting yours. 50K hits per month is good enough for me.

I'm willing to bet that CPUGuy knows how to use computers quite well himself, but that's not the point. No matter how much they know, some people prefer a software program to just work, and work well. The average person does not test software for a living, nor for a hobby.

I'm glad that your Mozilla experience was positive, though, Aitvo.

" Some people will continue to hold on to a dying trechnology based on 'superiority' claims. They make it their bread and butter. So give them their say even if they are WRONG."

Explain how Moz is a dying technology.

"I've known many FoxPro programmers who act the same way. Let them live in denial wrapped in their shell of supposed technical superiority. They will argue to their grave that they made the right decision regardless of the marketplace movement towards other technologies."

Riight, Moz and FoxPro are apples and oranges. What a poor excuse.

IE6 rarely mangles code. I've seen that happen much more often with Mozilla.

Mozilla has just worked for years for thousands of people, he was talking out of his rear end. If he couldn't get it to work pre 1.0 then he obviously isn't very skilled. I know for a fact however that he was twisting the truth. ;-)

Oh, you mean like AOL used to be bolted to every computer sold? Now wouldn't that be fun.

No, not like AOL. Like IE.

Nope, it's not a browser if it won't browse. I got tired of the strange crashes and lockups with IE6. Switched to Opera 7 and have never looked back. Opera has crashed exactly once on me and it was my fault. I don't have to add popup blockers to kill the devil spawning bastiches either.

Yeah sure, Mozilla-Gecko, Which is the only browser whose market share is rising against IE since... Well it never happened !!! is a dying browser. :-))

Also, please explain us why Gecko is integrated in new browsers every month (currently, 17 browsers I know of) and has such a good press especially among web-developpers?

pascual, In my experience, if it doesn't work in Moz you have errors. It's much easier to code for a browser that always adheres to HTML CSS and javascript standards. Using only web standard coding if it works in Moz, it will work in IE.

Provided you use coding that is atleast 2 years old. Moz is closer to present standards, both in CSS and DOM scripting, than any other browser I know of.

pascual, sorry, missed you're first question. They write software for a rapidly evolving technology. W3C introduces new coding. Moz makes it a reality.

Aitvo, I see you've created a tidy line between differences of opinion. The well thought out definitive answer.

Personally (which is the problem with definitive answers) I couldn't care less if Moz folded tomorrow. No skin off my nose.

Mt apologies Aitvo, I misscopied. That is addressed to sickandtired

Then you need to take a closer look. IE6 does indeed mangle code, what it does do much better than Mozilla is it HANDLES pre-mangled code better. e.g. code that wasn't written to the standards, code where end-tags are missing etc etc. This is both a good and a bad thing. It's good becuase it provides the end-user with the best chance of seeing the webpage the way it was intended even though it wasn't quite written that way! On the flip side it's bad because there's no mechanism by which the 'developer' gets told that their code is incorrect/mangled.

Now I promised the CSS examples so here they are, these are all well known. Load up these pages in IE and have a look around.

http://www.meyerweb.com/...complexspiral/demo.html
http://www.meyerweb.com/...mplexspiral/glassy.html
http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/index.html

Off the last link there's a whole list of other examples of IE completely mangling the code.

Now to see just HOW BAD IE is... load up those pages in Mozilla and look at the difference.... or if that's too hard for you, have a look here, there's images of how each of the pages should appear:
http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/gallery.html

IE is a nice browser, it has a lot going for it but don't start spreading FUD. It's standards-compliance, whilst getting a lot better recently, is poor!

pascual, sorry, I'm DuH

I'm reading bass ackwards.

Sorry to confuse.

Yes it quite apparent that you are confused, and beligerent.

You can have ur buggy, standard compliant browser, go ahead run it on a Mac or Linux too. Do all that and then u can think that ur special and know more about the subject than all others. Beat this topic into the ground with your incessant rebuttals.

Enjoy ur 50k hits per month (40k in gifs) and feel confident that ur 'doing the right thing'.

Who cares.... I've got bigger application design issues to worry about rather than some poor fool who wants to support a browser with little market share so he can call himself a purist.

> You can have ur buggy, standard compliant browser

buggy, LOL. Have you been living under a rock? Are you actually saying that IE is the best choice in a bug free browser?

> go ahead run it on a Mac or Linux too.

Maybe if I type this 1 more time it will sink in?

Personally (which is the problem with your definitive answers) I run it on a PC.

Do you go through life pigeon holing everything into neat little blanket statements? Or is this just a lack of in depth thinking when it comes to web browsers and FoxPro programmers? I guess ignorance is bliss.

> Enjoy ur 50k hits per month (40k in gifs) and feel confident that ur 'doing the right thing'.

What ??? And how is this an intelligent argument for IE or against Moz? You are describing the content of a web page. News flash:

Browsers DON’T write web pages, they read them.

I’m starting to notice a pattern of nonsense for the sake of it in your messages. A clear message to me that you’re a waste of my time.

> Who cares...? I've got bigger application design issues to worry about

Well aren’t you special, you’ve got big people problems. Once again, your point ???

> rather than some poor fool who wants to support a browser with little market share so he can call himself a purist.

I don’t code for Moz to support it, I use it to check W3C compliant code. You’re free to code for any browser(s) you like. Be aware that the percentage of non CPU browsers is rising. I know my pages work in non CPU browsers, do yours? If they’re coded for IE there’s a very good chance they don’t.

You twisted the truth. To consider a software build stable one has to prove that it doesn't crash without modification. If you modified Mozilla (on your own, or by following instructions), then it didn't come stable.

That's what he was insinuating. I tried Mozilla a few times, and later than you did; and I didn't consider it stable. Now you obviously can bash my credibility, but you won't be correct in doing so. I have more than enough experience and skill to make the previous statements.

>IE doesn't even support DOM1,

Not true according to DevEdge
http://devedge.netscape..../2001/feature-detection/
Peter-Paul Koch own public testings and according to a wide majority of serious sites reviewing W3C web standards compliance in browsers. webstandards.org would never say this. MSIE 6 for windows supports well DOM1 methods and properties. Whether such support is complete, flawless and impeccable is another issue.

>its CSS support is totally broken
96% support for CSS1 according to DevEdge's own testing, and this, despite the fact that border-spacing is not a CSS1 property. MSIE 6 for Windows supports and complies with CSS1 extremely well according to a wide majority of serious sites testing compliance and correct implementation.

> and IE CSS2 support is laughable,
58% for CSS2 according to DevEdge's own testing on property support. None of this implies actual testing of rendering where a browser might support more properties but its rendering and implementations might be more buggy, incorrect.

>Mozilla mouse scrolling is fine, thank you.
Bug 20618: "Mousewheel doesn't work with some driver/OS combinations" is the current number 1 most frequently reported, confirmed and non-fixed bug. 86 duplicate bugfiles is a lot. Regarding bug 156321 (pageXOffset and pageYOffset values are not updated correctly), a recent poster commented: "noone seems to care about this bug"

>As for IE, it doesn't support tabbed browsing
MSIE 7 for windows will support tabbed browsing, according to
http://www.pcwelt.de/news/software/26780/

>basic CSS like position:fixed
MSIE 7 for windows will.

> or the box model.
MSIE 6 for windows complies with the box model: it's been like this since MSIE 6 beta 1, 2 years ago.
http://msdn.microsoft.co...cements.asp?frame=false
Fix the Box Instead of Thinking Outside It
http://msdn.microsoft.co...hop/graphics/boxdim.gif

> Its PNG support is broken,
Correct.
http://www.petitiononlin...m/msiepng/petition.html

>its XHTML support is broken,
Not true. Please elaborate. As worded, no one can agree with you.

> its HTML4.01 support isn't even complete !
Correct but this is also the case for Opera 7 (which was release only ~ 2 months ago) and for Mozilla 1.3 final. Opera 7 support for some - not many, but some - HTML elements, attributes is so buggy that you can calmly say that Opera 7 does not support these elements and attributes.
Some table sub-elements and table attributes are not listed on Opera 7 pages as missing and incomplete when they should: e.g.: frame and rules attributes.
http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/#html
http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/html/
"frame Tables — Yes
rules Tables — Yes"
which is simply not true: worse, it's misleading.

Let's make a short and very incomplete list of things Mozilla/netscape supports/does and IE doesn't :
- CSS2
Moz+NS have a better support for CSS2.

- DOM0/1/2
Moz+NS have a better support for DOM2, period. It's certainly not the case for DOM0. It's roughly equal for DOM1.

- PNG with alpha and gamma transparencies
- tabs
- pop up blocker

True. But it is clear that MSIE 7 for Windows will support blocking of unrequested popups (load and unload events).

- text-zooming that works
Good point. I too agree that MSIE 6 for windows text size increase/decrease feature is poor and lousy.

- multiple stylesheets
Alternate stylesheets is a missing feature in MSIE 6 for windows.

- themes
This is a feature which I'm convinced will come along with MSIE 7 for Windows.

- cookie manager
Already in MSIE 6 for Windows.

- Image blocking per server
- basic download manager
MSIE 6 for Windows has a basic download manager.

- Real javascript console + advanced JS debugger
It depends on the version you have. AS-2000 server has an advanced JS debugger. True, it does not come with XP Pro and MSIE 6 for windows.

- DOM inspector
I agree with you that MSIE 6 for Windows does not have this powerful tool. You'll have to concede that such tool is mostly for web designers, not for users.

- Find as you type
- Sherlock search plugin support
- secure passwords and form managers
- master password protection
- Caret Browsing
What's that?

- More font options
- multiple profiles
It's not clear that multiple profiles is a clean and clear feature, not creating confusion in the mind of ordinary [single] users.

- cross platform
- can be desinstalled !!!
- MathML
- RDF + XUL support
- Link Prefetching
Very recent addition. I'm sure you'll agree with me on this.

- favicon in any image format

- groupmarks
I agree. Nice feature.

- HTTP pipelining
Tools/Internet Options.../Advanced tab/HTTP 1.1 settings is available in MSIE 6 for windows

- powerful sidebar
MSIE's explorer bar can be improved for sure.

- fine control on Javascript possibilities
- major releases with real adavances at least every 3 months
Minor versions fixing bugs, flaws, etc.. is already a reality for all 3 browsers (Mozilla+NS, MSIE via windows update, Opera).

"You twisted the truth. To consider a software build stable one has to prove that it doesn't crash without modification. If you modified Mozilla (on your own, or by following instructions), then it didn't come stable."

I did NOT twist the truth, nor did I modify Mozilla. I used milestone releases.

"Enjoy ur 50k hits per month (40k in gifs) and feel confident that ur 'doing the right thing'."

No sir, 50,000 PAGE VIEWS to my PERSONAL WEBSITE. :-P

how about giving a single example of that? I've never ever seen a standards compliant site that loaded right in IE and wrong in Mozilla.

*snicker*

maybe by right he means poorly, and incorrectly he means "with features"

i like my 2 million and rising ;)

I'm talking personal. Professionally, we passed 2 million years ago. heh

overflow-x: auto
overflow-y: auto
overflow: auto

Little if any function in mozilla. It's a guessing game if you want them to work. That leaves out tons of dhtml widgets (methods) like scrollTo that obviously can't scroll anywhere in a box that wont scroll.

xmlhttp method is compliant and functional as far as sending data but i cant find a single example of how to navigate the XML DOM with it successfully and i've looked tons of places. You cant even ask anyone for that kind of help because no one knows or cares about gecko but I can find articles on IE compliant code anywhere. easier? how can it be easier to code when i cant figen code it!!!

Clicking in the url box to change the url and using smart population for the autofill feature was only recently useful or even functional at 1.3 final for mozilla. frustrating? yup.

i have since rewriten my code several times since the event but i can recall specifically that gecko browsers would completely lose a DOM object when it was nested in more than one frameset. IE had no trouble, mozilla had no solution, debuggers closed the ticket leaving it unsolved. Money says its still broken.

I dont see how IE being embedded in the OS has any relevance to the fact that its faster than Mozilla. Point is it's faster. Doesn't really matter how it happened. I don't care. Users don't care.

filter support.
http://msdn.microsoft.co...us/dnie40/html/ex_8.asp

in fact, try loading that page in a Gecko browser. No Iframes, no divs... why? cause they get no love when it comes to scrolling and sizing. i do see text running accross the screen outside of a text area box though. SHOULD THAT EVEN BE POSSIBLE?

Foul code interpretation.

Can't wait for IE7

theres a difference? ;)

is that the same w3c that until last year couldnt get their own site to validate in their code validator?

HMMMMMMMMMMMM!

did that even make sense?

mmm 50K personal, >2M per month professional

Makes sense to me.

the overflow css property isn't working for you in Moz 1.3? that's odd, it's working fine for me. can you show me a testcase? I use it on my site and it works flawlessly and just the way I expected it to. It also works identically in IE 5.0, 5.5, and 6.0, so it's not some alternate interpretation of the standards either.

IE "loads" faster than Mozilla because the program is loaded at system startup and it's really just displaying a new window. However, IE is slower than Mozilla at loading and displaying webpages on my machine. Is this not the case for you? I would say webpage displaying speed is the real speed test of a web browser, especially since it happens a lot more often.

http://www.whatthedilly.com/failed-1.gif
http://www.whatthedilly.com/failed-2.gif

don't be scared ;) post it if you're going to flail around shouting tra la la im so fancy with your big 50k hits.

Huh? Post what? I wasn't saying anything other than I get 50K hits, not that it's a big number. lol

all talk. ;)

and for the record IE usually loads only a split second slower than mozilla in displaying a page but it always loads what i need it to (even on a celeron 600. these school computers are CRAP!). i'll take reliability and start up speed over a hair of render time anyday of the week

All talk about what? Are you asking for a link? Just go to the link to the PNG above, since I deleted that file yesterday it will throw you right at my personal site. Click about then stats. The access log resets at midnight every night.

Yes, your point?

that the standards commity writes standards they cant follow.

f3wt? you surly bas****! you still fighting these kids in forums? nice move on the nick change ;) i'm sure you were taking heat just because of the rep before.

PS you're sites boring like CNN before the war ;D

There isn't much to it. Depending on your doctype, proper tag nesting and quotes around attributes is about all that's required.

Aitvo came long before Fewt heh

There's nothing wrong with boring. :-P

They do follow the standards now. Give them a break, they're creating code thats propose is to run on any browser.

At this they are successful. Could you imagine a cell phone coming across something like or style="cursor: hand;"? It would be pointless.

The standards allow for web browsing to move away from big desk computers. Portability is inevitable, preparing for it is IMO wise.

To be fair. I included <blink> as well as cursor: hand in the sentence above. I wasn't aware until now that this message board was set to remove tags.

And Microsoft don't apply the patches they write... (as witnessed by the latest round of attacks on SQL Server)
What's your point? What's your point other than to try and distract people from the fact the IE 6 is a lot less standards compliant than Mozilla? Saying that IE 7 will do this and that is also pointless... coz Mozilla 2.8 will do this, that and the other.

you can't specify height as a percentage. height as a percentage is invalid CSS, because what is it supposed to be a percentage of? the W3C has the idea that the browser window is just a view of part of the webpage, and thus height = 100% means 100% of the webpage, not 100% of the browser window. I'm not sure I agree with this, but it is consistent with behavior. Try setting the height to a pixel or point value and your scrolling will work properly.

Mozilla is too slow under Linux. Netscape 4.78 is better there. But the best browser is still LYNX. Want SPEED? You want LYNX. :)
21c: 01/01/01
DOS Forever!